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What I query is why so minimal charges and why only one of them?
Surely an adult beating up a child would get far worse?
And two adults together, even if one doesn't do the swinging but ably aids and abets the other by holding the child down?
Or is there somewhere in the law that states cops can do whatever they want and their superiors will let them off?
15-year-old girl 'assaulted' in jail cell: policeman charged
Woah, the way he flipped in that video really took me by surprise. :sweatdrop:
The situation doesn't add up from the video, I can only guess he must have been under real stress or something like that, especially considering the way he flails out rather than doing more professional looking moves.
Of course it doesn't make what he did OK, but even policemen are human I suppose.
was just watching this earlier. Boy does that guy not take to kindly to shoes being flung at him. I guess the girl must of also said something to him that really pushed his buttons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr
I trust the courts will deal with this case.
I was going to make a joke about "kid didn't get off their lawn" but it doesn't really fit. :/
Can anyone with some legal knowledge weigh in on how the charge was 4th degree assault? What the hell is first degree? Rape? I must be missing something here
:dizzy2:
From what I observed, only one officer used excessive force. The other only helped to put on the handcuffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
As human as anyone, with all the foibles & weaknesses that implies. The knothead will pay a hefty price, maybe even lose his job. Many city & state lockups have video coverage; I can't imagine he wouldn't know that....Quote:
Of course it doesn't make what he did OK, but even policemen are human I suppose.
I can't believe you people, haven't you ever heard of shoe guns and sock bombs and shoe-lace bio toxins. They had to get that other shoe off her before she hurt someone.
I suppose you think it's wrong to charge people with battery on a police officer when they fart at them, too? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2687768
Next you will tell me that cops shouldn't be allowed to:
Demand free food
http://www.boston.com/news/odd/artic...ree_starbucks/
Assault the wal-mart greeter for doing his job
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...cle=1&catnum=9
Taser a pregnant woman holding a child and post photos on myspace of guns, drugs and recklessness
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2aa_1197076807
This story is good:
Allegedly arrest the wrong person while the dash cam is mysteriously not on, then forcibly strip search her with male cops, and leave her naked in the cell for 6 hours, and sue the station that airs the video for "invasion of privacy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvr3...alled-for.html
and my personal favorite,
fart on unconscious woman's head
http://www.8bm.com/diatribes/volume02/005/097.htm
Sorry, got google happy
so did anyone ever hear how that case in LA county turned out with the deputy who told the air force guy to "stand up" then shot him in the back? I can't find anything new on the story
Wait I forgot about this old one, I love this one.
Cop pepper sprays girl for possible shortchange in the drive-thru
I ain't got no 20s
http://www.videosift.com/video/Polic...r-Short-Change
Bullies whom never grown up.
Woot check out the shiners on this lady and check out the pool of blood on the floor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB_H...eature=related
People who like to boss others around look to drill seargents as a nice career to have, people who like to bully others and impose their "authority" look to the police force as a nice career.
The more I read and hear other peoples testimony, the more I think this is true.Quote:
Or is there somewhere in the law that states cops can do whatever they want and their superiors will let them off?
The people in this video have the same mindset as rapists. Rapists dont rape for sexual release, they do it for the feeling of domination and control.Quote:
This story is good:
Allegedly arrest the wrong person while the dash cam is mysteriously not on, then forcibly strip search her with male cops, and leave her naked in the cell for 6 hours, and sue the station that airs the video for "invasion of privacy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvr3d...alled-for.html
They. Are. Police. That is the reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
My Friend Got Charged With Fourth Degree Assault For Spitting In The Face Of A Guy Who Had Just Spit In His Face. In The Same State.
It's unwritten - the blue wall of silence. Much, much more effective than any 'stop snitching' program.Quote:
Or is there somewhere in the law that states cops can do whatever they want and their superiors will let them off?
Take a look at this story. Cops brutalize a man, and one officer from another country spoke up about it at the trial of the brutalized man (as often happens, the police charged the victim with crimes to cover up their own.)
Now, does the Sheriff punish the cops who beat up the victim? No; he calls the boss of the cop who told the truth and complains about him. The cop who tells the truth is put under investigation for wearing his uniform while testifying for the defense.
His boss also apologizes for the honest cop who had the gall to tell the truth:
“As Secretary of the APOA i feel it is my duty and responsibility to apologize to you and your officers. Ofc. Sam Costales does not represent APD/APOA. The majority of our officers look at the BCSO as our brother and sisters in blue. We are embarrassed and ashamed of Ofc. Costales's testimony in the Unser trial. If there is anything we can do to rebuild the damage caused by Sam please let me know.”
Some more:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Nope, haven't read what happened. It's amazing what police get away with - incredible, in that it defies credibility. There are thugs with badges, and there are cops who don't report them. There are precious few 'good cops'.Quote:
so did anyone ever hear how that case in LA county turned out with the deputy who told the air force guy to "stand up" then shot him in the back? I can't find anything new on the story
As opposed to normal people, who would go to jail.Quote:
The knothead will pay a hefty price, maybe even lose his job.
You can't trust the courts or internal police reviews in this country. Cops can, and have, get away with murder.Quote:
I trust the courts will deal with this case.
In summary - Never talk to the police. Never trust them. Never let them in or search anything if they ask.
They are not your friends.
CR
I actually know a lot of good cops, but I'm sure even they could lose their temper if in difficult situations, and sometimes I hear them complain of situations where cops are being punished for something and I think, wow, they are getting what they deserve whats the problems. All in all, it's not a job I would care to have
It's really like any other line of work in that you will have people working there who are not-so level headed. Most police stations do ploygraphs for applicants, which are honestly a total load of crap because they don't prove anything. I think PDs that require their officers to have bachelors degrees prior to hiring typically have a more solid roster of quality cops, but anymore a degree can be obtained fairly easily so maybe it will become irrelevant.
I did, however, finally get rid of my old surveillance equipment from my PI days and buy a small minicam which I usually keep with me. They come in very handy. Had a small mini recorder that looked like a ballpoint pen that actually saved my butt in a wrongful termination lawsuit when I worked for a large retailer. Then I almost got fired for violating company policy by recording. I record everything now, down to the guy on the phone telling me the checks in the mail
Yeah, there are cops who do intend to do good.
But they are, sadly, the same ones who cover for the bad cops.
Being cooperative with most probably wouldn't be a problem. But it can turn into a big problem, and I don't see a reason to take that chance.
Surveillance is always a good idea. The only reason we're hearing about this is because of the video.
CR
Second guy is not charged because he didn't participate and was under training...
...judging by how he stood idle while a grown up man was beating a teenage girl I can say that he is definitely perfect cop material.
It is a sickening assault. Unfortunately the police attracts bullies and good for nothings who want to have power. In Greece (my country) policemen ranks somewhere between slime molds and snails in the great list of things mainly because of only using force (unnecessarily) when the odds are for them.
If that person goes unpunished (and proper punishment would be imprisonment) the respect for police will fall even more and I am also afraid that people might start taking the law in their hands. He should receive exemplary punishment and not a free holiday like he did.
:bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Their motto here is:
Your friend and helper.
or
Dein Freund und Helfer.
Some black sheep as well I'm sure but generally I haven't noticed many problems with our police here.
Could be that they require Abitur or so.
I'm sure I've posted this in the past. Anyway about a decade ago I was on holiday in the Algarve and was watching the local Portuguese telly in a bar.
The scene I witnessed was, to say the least, bizzare. There was hundreds of GNR guys beseiging a town police station. The local police were in riot gear and the GNR guys were in full uniform. After a while the GNR guys threw all their weapons into a huge pile in front of the police station door and then a fight started.
I watched, bemused, as they slugged it out, live on screen. I turned to the barmaid and asked her what was going on. She said that two GNR guys had beaten a gypsy to death and had been promptly arrested by the town police. Their colleagues had then marched on the station demanding that they be let out and chanting that they couldn't arrest us, we are the police! :dizzy2:
It cartainly made my day watching coppers bash other coppers. A win win. :2thumbsup: :laugh4:
A cop who has someone in their custody has a duty of care to them. A minor should not be put in this situation where they can be violently assaulted. So why can't the state which is ultimately responsible for these guys be sued?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito
If Joe Citizen held down a child, held her hands behind her back so she cannot shield her face, and then watch John Doe smash his fist into her head a couple of times, said Joe Citizen would not be charged with aiding a crime?
I do not agree with the idea that cops are above the law. My own view of how the law would be approximately the following:
1. Normal crime, normal punishment.
2. Attack a cop or a judge in uniform, higher punishment for the crime.
3. A crime committed by a citizen who is within the law system and within their purview, the higher punishment for the crime then those above.
Here's a follow up article. He will also face Department charges on top of the criminal/civil ones. Google 4th degree assault in Washington State: the penalty is possible 1 year in jail & $5,000 fine.The officer overreacted to the female kicking her shoe at him. He was well within his right to place her on the wall to subdue/restrain her and place cuffs on her. Taking her down by the hair and punching her on the ground when it was obvious by the video that she was not resisting constitutes excessive force, being a minor has no real relavence, he'd be just as wrong if it was an adult. The second officer involved will be required to provide written testimony on what happened, and with video of the incident there's no way he could lie about it. He will have to testify against the agressor or face criminal and departmental charges himself. Unless one can prove he purposely held the victim down so the other could assault her, which I don't think one can, he was following procedure to restrain and handcuff a person who assaulted (kicking a shoe) at a fellow officer. It's not his fault that the officer used excessive force instead of just restraining/controlling/handcuffing that person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
We have been using video's in any of the jails I have worked at for years. I welcome them because they also protect and provide evidence for me and my colleagues from assault and justify our use of force. We don't get paid to be punching bags for every anti-social :daisy:, and aren't required to, but you gotta use your head, know the law and follow correct procedures.
Seems to be a lot of assumption & inuendo made here, but cops only seem to make the best headlines when some of them do something wrong. People tend to forget that they are us...
Don't know how true this statement is, but if he's a trainee than that means he's also on probation. So he's at the mercy of the Department and can lose his job even if not charged with a crime. IG will make him a deal he can't refuse.Quote:
Second guy is not charged because he didn't participate and was under training...
I'm sorry. I don't know what universe you inhabit but being a minor in my opinion does make a difference. An adult has full recourse to the law, a minor is a child and as such must be protected at all costs by the law/authorities
Anything else is a travesty of common decency.
He was merely pointing out that the law doesn't differentiate between victims ages unless the law broken was one where a person being a minor is inherent in the law itself, like child endangerment or contributing to the delinquency of a minor. In other words, assault and battery is assault and battery, whether the victim is 27 or 15. If the prosecutor wants something pertaining specifically to the fact that it was a child, there are a whole slew of child abuse/child neglect/sexual assault laws that do take age into account. A lot of states have adopted statutes where sexual assault of someone under 12 is a different and more hefty charge.
Your point could have been made without the verbal slight, IA. Poor form.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
If you are under sixteen in NSW and you are given dental or medical treatment without your guardians consent. The Dr can be charged with assault and battery.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Minors generally can't be charged as an adult. And adults that do crimes against children are generally given harsher treatment. Although there are obvious breaches of this (a man who raped a 4 year old got a suspended sentence :wall: ).
I'm merely pointing out that the charge of 4th degree assault & use of excessive force isn't age specific, and minors have as much protection under the law as anyone. Let's also not forget the 15 year old isn't being held for stealing bubble gum. And though the video doesn't show it, judging from the officer's explosive reaction I imagine the shoe struck him in the "family jewels". That doesn't justify use of excessive force, but I wonder what the average person's reaction would be to being kicked in the crotch....Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
You're right, I apologise Hosakawa Tito. One too many before bed. :shame:Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
Policemen are supposed to be professionals and able to keep their head cool under stressful situations. This guy should be fired and charged for assault :juggle2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr
And though the video doesn't show it, judging from the officer's explosive reaction I imagine the shoe struck him in the "family jewels". That doesn't justify use of excessive force, but I wonder what the average person's reaction would be to being kicked in the crotch....
I certainly wouldn't explode into violence, i have had a good few situation where i could have hit a minor (with a similar amount of justification to this guy) had a girl half my size jump up and hit me in the eye (it didn't hurt... bit of a shock though) and a little kid poke me in the eye on purpose (though he did apologise just after im sure he did it on porpuse and it stung a little)
I would expect a police officer to be at least as cool headed as me, i would never hit someone who's being restrained by someone else, its just wrong and even more so in this situation...
What should the trainee officer have done ?
Ill admit if i was a trainee i wouldn't be quite sure what to do.... do you stop your senior officer ? can you be sure your supposed to stop your senior officer or if your supposed to handcuff the minor ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly
If you see ANYONE hitting a restrained little girl then you should stop them.
I see 3 sets of issues here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito
1. Violent cop.
2. Systemic corruption in the lack of charges & what would be expected to happen to someone else in the wider community.
3. Failure of duty of care for a professional with a minor in there care.
1 = Bad
2 = Unjust
3 = Unethical
Not sure what video you are watching. Because the shoe doesn't seem to get very high nor very fast, so unless the cop is hung like a donkey (which given his anger levels indicates more like Maradona)... then I don't think it got him in the family jewels.
Nor would it excuse his assault. Nor does it excuse what seems to the rest of the world a systemic problem where the cop is getting a soft touch in charging from his superiors. I do still wonder what would happen to two adults who were not police officers doing the same thing. It seems most people have skirted that. If two adults did this would they expect at worst 4th degree assault for one and sweet nothing for the other? I don't think so. And this is were the law is falling, the moment there is one law for one set and another for the rest it is the very definition of corrupt.
Generally for professionals (Dentists, Doctors, School Teachers) they have a duty of care to minors. This results in the potential for charges to be laid against the professionals if they do something to a minor while they have authority over them, charges that would not be applicable for other adults who do not have a duty of care to them. For instance the age of consent used to be higher for students and their teacher. So I do find it abhorrent that this is a minor who is getting assaulted. Just because the Law does not differentiate this, does not make the situation just.
If you see ANYONE hitting a restrained little girl then you should stop them.
Of course you do... i was just ... thinking out loud shall we say, about why the trainee officer reacted how he did...
I simply said i would be quite unsure what to do...
It is hard when your personal morals point to one course of action and then someone senior to you in work points to a different course of action...
I can't remember the study or the findings to well, but didn't they basically prove that most people would follow bad orders given the right conditioning/scenario ?
Though i haven't watched the video my post was mainly based on what has been said in the thread...
Unacceptable from a police officer judging by the video, although I think your being slightly unfair on the trainee, up until the punches on the floor, it was no more than (extremely) over-zealous restraint, which police sometimes have to do, it is also not shown what occured previously - I fear I would act in a similar way to the trainee in that situation, and it's very easy to fool yourself into thinking you would act differently in any given situation - the officer doing the assualt should be charged and fired though
BTW the teenager was booked with third degree assault for her part in the fracas. :laugh4:
Well, I say sack the police officer if I haven't yet.
The shoe can't possibly have hurt him, there's no real energy or force behind it from what can be seen in the video.
The trainee, well, either he is a scumbag as well or he just knew that if he didn't do what the other guy did he might lose his job/be considered a rat etc. That's group behaviour/esprit de corps/whatever it's called for you.
One of the biggest problems I have with police these days is the refusal to admit any kind of wrongdoing under any circumstances. I'm not sure if this is wholly or partially driven by legal accountability, but it still disgusts me. I watched this video, the cop was clearly way out of bounds and out of control. The legal system can and should punish him for it. It's not only this instance either, the recent video of the guy shooting the person who was already restrained on the ground and not resisting, random videos like what Mr. Dumper posted, those all disgust me. The police administrations over those individuals should have admitted what happened, apologized, and worked to make amends for what happened. This constant "We were in the right, it was justified" BS does nothing to help themselves or their image with the public. And people wonder why kids (and adults) these days do not like cops in general.
Regarding some of the sentiments expressed that the cop "was only human"... While that is true, law enforcement is a serious matter that deals with our civil liberties and rights, and also life or death situations. Law enforcement officers by definition have the ability to affect these rights in many different ways in the course of doing their jobs, therefore they MUST be held to the utmost rigorous standards given what is at stake.
That's quite all right IA; I took no offense. It's an emotional subject with little real evidence available to us of all the mitigating circumstances that led up to this apparent use of excessive force, heck there isn't even any audio which would be a big help. However, something caused this officer to react the way he did, and that is what needs to be found out and addressed so measures can be taken to try and prevent future incidents. One can enact all the laws, rules, procedures & directives one wants, but it's always the human element in the equation that trips us up. All one can do is require that law enforcement act in good faith and to the best of their abilities in the performance of their duties.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Mere speculation on my part as are many of the assumptions on what led up to the incident, including the charges or lack thereof so far. We have no idea about what occured from the moment this young person was apprehended up to the beginning of that video, nor the officer's role in any of it except what the video has shown. You might be entirely right or only partially right in your speculations; without more of the story and the time to analyse the info and why it happened as it did...who really knows for sure. This one's in the public spotlight and there will be an accounting.Quote:
Not sure what video you are watching. Because the shoe doesn't seem to get very high nor very fast, so unless the cop is hung like a donkey (which given his anger levels indicates more like Maradona)... then I don't think it got him in the family jewels.
I read an AP article saying that, according to court documents, the shoe struck him about the knee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito
The BBC has a version of the video where you can see the shoe striking the officer and you can see clearly he does not flinch as he would if it struck his crotch with any force.
I believe police and other such agents should be charged with harsher penalties for the same crimes, because of the greater responsibility they have, and the fact that they have abused their power and responsibility. But I'd settle for them getting equal treatment.
Fun fact - I talked with my mom about this, and she told me how my Uncle was attacked by cops way back. He was a passenger in a car stopped by cops and started asking questions and generally not being a submissive little peasants. So the cops hit him a bit. My grandmother takes him to complain and the police say they can't file a complaint because they don't live in Milwaukee (where the attack happened) but outside of the city. And they said my uncle 'fell' down on his own. Funny how so many people lose all coordination around cops.
CR
It's a good thing there are cameras to watch the cops now. Maybe your uncle will quit falling down so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Another one of my favorites:
this kid put a camera in his car and went to an area where a local cop had apparently harrassed and falsely arrested one of his friends. What ensues is utterly shocking, when he stops in an empty commuter parking lot, the cop threatens him with false charges, no turn signal (lie), almost hitting the cop car on the turn (cop was off his side of the road), swerving (lie),admits to screwing the guys friend, sees the camera and says he would just tear it out after the arrest -- and then doesn't arrest the kid and lets him go with the camera even after the kid tells him the city of St Louis had settled with him for a previous police brutality case (i think back up arrived so the cop had to back off a little). This cop is the height of stupidity. Enjoy:
http://www.noob.us/miscellaneous/cop...d-for-nothing/
I once posted this on another forum and, in true nature of the "we all stick together no matter what" mentality that has been discussed here, some people in law enforcement were like "OMGZ HE PUT A CAMERA IN HIS CAR AND WENT LOOKING FOR TROUBLE WHAT A SCUMBAG" Cuz, ya know, that totally excuses the cops habitual behavior.
Hmmm, I had a link to the police chief defending the cop, but the page has since been disabled. I might also note that the police officers dash cam was mysteriously not on, ya know, the cam would "show a different story." Riiiight.
Baltimore cop telling some children they can't skateboard at the location, except one kid has headphones and doesn't immediately hear......hilarity ensues....wow, I mean wow, just wow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgW.../120208Cop.htm
What makes it even more fun for everyone is that laws are starting to spring up which state something along the lines of "people cannot film or photograph cops while performing their duties", under the guise of it being a tool for organized crime to perform reprisals on individual's families.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyoma1910
Hey, look, Fatty the Baltimore cop (from above) strikes again!!! I hope this guys career came to a grinding halt.....but probably not. Maybe he's just mad he doesn't get a real cop car....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Mts9gMGKo
Why is he dressed like that? and why is he driving around in a Noddy car?
I think I'd be pissed off if I had to dress as a clown and drive a toy car for a job. :laugh4:
He's just a bully and needs bringing down a peg or two.
Cop arrests firefighter who is trying to treat a wounded accident victim, because fireman wouldn't move the truck
http://flashovertv.firerescue1.com/C...99D2C3A56E6F86
Cop shoots dog, then the department changes its story after they find the woman videotaped the incident:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFlWGeb_aw
CR
hey thats down the street from me CR
heres some cops shooting a peaceful protester with rubber bullets, then laughing about it later in the AAR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G63F...eature=related
What those cops really needed was a horse, to block the camera.
Speaking of dogs getting shot, at 3:03 in this old video they shoot a dog that must weigh all of 6 pounds. the suspects turned out not to be the ones the cops were looking for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv0T...eature=related
And this classic one of a Chicago cop beating up a small woman bartender (and initially getting a misdemeanor after investigating cops refused to look at the video). A 2020 video that includes more police abuse and an investigation into the code of silence.
CR
hey i remember that one, the bystanders in that bar are ***** for not helping out, I don't care if he was an off-duty cop, once you start breaking the law you have to pay the piper, too. Makes me sick the cops tried to cover it up and it had to be leaked to the press.
Reminds me of the "tragedy" of the off-duty cop who was shot by responding deputies while trying to apprehend some "hooligans" in a parking lot, turns out he was drunk (drunk and gun is no-no) and the surveillance from inside the restraunt shows that he started the fight. A tragedy, not quite.
Cops tell crippled man to "stand up" then dump him out of wheelchair.
http://www.policeabuse.com/index.php...sk=view&id=328
heres the kicker though. what do we DONT see?
what happened before the incident?
did the girl say anything?
did the girl threaten the officers?
look, im not taking the police side on this but i dont judge quickly too. i like to see the WHOLE picture.
(yes yes, the officer mmad the little girl to hell but there HAS to be a reason why yes?)
I don't have a video, but here is the Wiki on
Antoinette Frank.
A New Orleans police officer. She robbed a restaurant, where she offered off duty protection, murdering her partner and two restaurant employees.
That whole news story is good, has some stuff already posted, but the cop on cop DUI stop near the end really says more than nay of us ever could.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Quote:
Originally Posted by ŞaoŞin
Which clip are you talking about?
the OP one XD
From reading various articles, I do not think the girl threatened the officer. She may have been less than polite. That's the sum of what happened before.
There is a reason - the cop is a bully, who thinks that he's above the law.
I'm surprised the cops apologized. I mean, of course they should, but so often they don't.Quote:
Cops tell crippled man to "stand up" then dump him out of wheelchair.
CR
It really doesn't matter anyhow. I'm not aware of any rule that allows a cop to give a suspect in custody a savage beating, no matter what the suspect says to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
In these videos, I work under the assumption that we're not seeing the whole story. I assume she was mean, rude, uncooperative ect. Clearly, the officer was very mad at her. But that's still no justification for what he did. They were locking her in a cell when she half-heartedly kicked a shoe at him and he responded by beating her. There's no justification for that no matter how much she antagonized the him. :no:
Justice Dept. looking into alleged deputy assault
"Assistant US Attorney Kelly Harris says the Justice Department just got its first look at the video Friday and that federal charges may be warranted.
“We do have jurisdiction anytime there is an allegation of excessive force by a police officer,” said Harris. "It falls under deprivation of rights under the color of law. It's a federal criminal statute.”"
I hope the feds throw the book at him. Just wonder if there is something for conspiracy to pervert justice as the rest of the department didn't do such a bang up job in charging him correctly... although there is enough evidence to say that even internally the investigators were not impressed with Schene's statements. I wonder if they will reopen his shooting and killing someone at a federal level. If the Sheriff's department can't effectively uncover such an assault until the video went public what actually happened at the shooting?
And the car... apparently she took her mums car without permission.
"According to court documents, Calhoun complained of breathing problems after the episode and medics were called to check her. A short time later, she was taken to a youth detention center and booked for investigation of auto theft and third-degree assault, the latter accusation concerning the confrontation with the deputy. Calhoun has pleaded innocent to taking a motor vehicle without permission. She was never formally charged with assault."
And I still love how she was going to be up for third-degree for the fight when it was all one way in the physical blows from the cop... who btw is 6'2" and 195 pounds... not some little guy with a Napoleon complex.
The biggest problem with an authority figure abusing his granted power is the eventual breakdown of respect for the rule of law.
Just look at the lack of respect shown law enforcement in general in this thread, comprised of posters from all over america, europe and australia.
THAT is why "assault under color of law" is assault of the worst kind, and is rightfully sanctioned severely in viable republics/democracies.
I don't know if this is the case in most countries but I can tell you that in France, commiting any offense while being employed by the Police is an aggravation by itself (whatever the offense from theft to violence...).Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
And I can tell you that it is judged particularly severely in courts.
As a counterpoint, law officers (judges/policemen) are protected and violence against them is also aggravated. But, I know, from first-hand experience that the courts are more lenient against the offenders against cops than they are against their victims...
There are no excuse to the behaviour of that cop in the cell, but as some of the posters stated, being a cop is not being a super-hero... They are as fallible as the next guy, altyhough they should be held to a higher standard.
The fact is that there is no way to know what went down between the girl and the cop(s) before she was put into that cell.
How was she arrested ? I read she was arrested for car theft... Maybe she tried to run one of the cops over...
I am not trying to excuse the man but only to find some rationale for his "losing it big time"...
Holy cow, the one where the cop turns off the camera when dealing with a drunken woman in custody is astonishing- I think it's around the 7 minute mark. Clearly getting angry, he walks over to the camera and turns it off. When it's turned back on her hair and clothes are in total disarray and she's laying on the floor in a pool of blood. He explains that she slipped. :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
You're always going to have a few bad eggs, no matter how how hard you try to screen them out. I think everyone understands that. The problem is when the "good" cops keep their mouths shut or, even worse, try to cover up for them out of some misplaced sense of brotherhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
It would be a lot better if the bad cops were singled out and reported by their peers. But instead, it seems like their culture makes it so that its the one who blows the whistle on their abuse of power who is ostracized and punished.
My personal perception is that the number of "bad eggs" is far greater than others would state it is. All my life I've hated cops, given my interactions with them, even when I wasn't a bit of a troublemaker in my teens (note that I have never been arrested or even handcuffed in my entire life). There are a few that teach at my Kung Fu school, as I've got to know them they do seem more human and one can see their side of the fence a bit better, but my general dislike remains. This thread hasn't helped of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
"Don't snitch." Not only that, but the upper echelons of police structures will generally do whatever it takes to back up their subordinates, even when they are clearly in the wrong and way out of bounds. Again this is what I maintain perpetuates and if anything is strengthening the "I don't like cops" attitude that in my view is becoming much more prevalant through the US.Quote:
It would be a lot better if the bad cops were singled out and reported by their peers. But instead, it seems like their culture makes it so that its the one who blows the whistle on their abuse of power who is ostracized and punished.
Here's another recent one:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,1616907.story
Watch the video.
Once again, we have the cops attacking an innocent man, because they are cowards and bullies.Quote:
Sunrise man cleared after elevator video shows he did not batter Fort Lauderdale officers
Sunrise man had been accused of attacking officers
By Tonya Alanez | South Florida Sun-Sentinel
March 5, 2009
After a beat down in an elevator, Joshua Daniel Ortiz ended up with his nose broken and facing a charge of battering a Fort Lauderdale Is your Fort Lauderdale restaurant clean? - Click Here. police officer.
The 22-year-old Sunrise man was surprised and delighted to learn Wednesday that Broward prosecutors were dropping the case against him after reviewing an elevator surveillance video showing three officers aggressively rush and beat Ortiz to the ground.
Once the Dec. 5 video surfaced, it altered the course of the case. It contradicted police reports that Ortiz provoked and attacked Officers Derek Lade, Stefan Silver and Steve Smith.
"They were just sitting there watching my life go down the drain with those charges," Ortiz said Wednesday. "I've been going crazy thinking my life is over. It's barely started and it's over."
The looming legal charges delayed Ortiz's enrollment in college classes, he said.
Police first charged Ortiz with felony battery on a law enforcement officer.
But after seeing the video obtained by Ortiz's defense attorney, Stephen Melnick, prosecutors downgraded the charge to a misdemeanor resisting charge. Upon further review, prosecutors dropped the case entirely.
Once again, we have them charging the assault victim with a crime and lying about what he did.
And for the latest ************* time in a row, we have the cops getting away without any punishment!
Not a beating? He got his nose broke, because he approached an officer with his hands down? What kind of planet are these guys on? What kind of country do they think they live in? The thing that gets me most is that they know exactly.Quote:
Fort Lauderdale police internal affairs investigators reviewed the incident more than a month ago and found no violations of policy or procedures, said Sgt. Frank Sousa, the department's spokesman.
"It was not a beating," Sousa said. "The video clearly shows that [Ortiz] made a movement toward the officer.
They attacked him and tried to destroy his whole life with false charges. They wanted to destroy his life to cover their bullying, arrogant actions.
And they receive no punishment!
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -
-- Thomas Jefferson
CR
Hands down CR? He had them in his pockets, that's even worse.
Remember how cops often shoot-on-sight any dogs they come across that do not immediately run away? If they come to your house and your dog barks or bounds out to meet them or even is chained up it's likely to get killed and the cop receive no punishment.
But should a police dog die of natural causes, they'll give it a grand funeral. The double standard is disgusting, and symbolic of what is wrong with the police.
CR
Okay, so the general sentiment of many posters is that far too many police are abusive and/or actively counterproductive.
What is to be done?
Do we dispense with police forces and rely on local committees of vigilance?
Do we dispense with police forces and leave law enforcement up to the citizens themselves?
Do we disarm police?
In other words, please shift from "what's wrong" to "what's to be done."
From a conservative point of view, nothing would be done as that would be progressive and only lefties are progressive. ~;)
Well, as for my POV, I think the police force should undergo some changes, a bit less brotherhood, training with an emphasis on helping people, not shooting people. Maybe a different motto and perhaps reliable checks and balances that are not police officers themselves.
Much of police work requires the guy to be a mostly independent operator, making judgments on behalf of the government/people, and taking what he thinks is appropriate action.
I wouldn't take that away. Instead: tech-up. I'd find better ways to monitor our public guardians, for review by their non-uniformed authorities. Individual policeman-mounted minicams/sound recorders, gps trackers, portable, easily-accessable criminal databases and law libraries for his reference. That kinda stuff.
When a bad one shows up, or a good one has a really bad day, the record will show his mistakes, as well as any aggrevating circumstances.
The problem, as I see it, is that police are not accountable.
So we need to make them accountable. There has to be real punishment when they screw up.
Immunity for their actions must be removed, so they can be sued individually, and we can let a jury decide if what they did was right. This is a very important part. Right now the punishment is decided by their brothers-in-arms - we need an independent review and application of the same laws to police that they would face if they were civilians.
If a cop comes to your house without a warrant and shoots your dog, he must receive the same punishment as anybody else.
They must face real punishment - civilian review boards with access to absolutely all files in a case, with the power to suspend and fire officers.
All laws against surveillance of the police must be overturned immediately.
Their files on their activities must be completely public - reports of all raids carried out and the individual result of each raid.
It must be a felony for a police officer to lie on a report. Those who lie to cover up crimes or implicate the innocent must face especially serious charges.
In short, we must completely tear asunder the blue code of silence and leave cops open to all normal avenues of punishment in our legal system.
This is just off the top of my head.
CR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
What's wrong is more fun and interesting.
There's nothing that can be done until the Blue Code of Gay Silence is broken and shattered by some cops with both morals and testicles. A similar mentality exists in the military and it's wrong there as well, even more wrong I'd say because the military is very forgiving of genuine mistakes made under stress.
What's funny is when you hear stuff like I can't speak out "I got a family to support." Hmmmm, that's the same line a lot of drug dealers, thiefs and robbers use. Funny indeed.
You miss the point. In the article, the report from the officer who got assaulted said the kid "was in a fighting stance with fists raised"Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
So again, we have them lying. and yes, hands in pockets is bad, but its not like he had a chance to take them out. So in excusing the cops, the initial lie is overlooked completely because his hands were in his pockets perhaps. Oink
So, it's the lie, false report/witness thingee.
I agree. Either we (the citizenry) agree with the report, or we don't. If we don't, then the law-enforcer gets sanctioned. If we do, then...
tech up.
I can't speak for other states or law enforcement entities but in the NYS Dept. of Corrections, State Police, Sheriffs this has been initiated and evolving for almost 20 years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
Easier said than done when one is trying to change/suppress/redirect human nature itself. And that applies to all strata of the Law Enforcement community, from the judges, commissioners, politicians, right down to the grunts in the trenches. Coverups don't just happen because management wants to protect the cop. Many would gladly sacrifice any grunt if they could do so and save/preserve their own liabilties. What needs to be done is to convince the cops who perform their jobs in good faith that they are safe from retailiation (from peers & management) and it is in their best interests for reporting those that don't act in good faith, and then actually follow through on that promise. Anyone who has ever worked in law enforcement will probably tell you that the "brotherhood" is a natural result of and quite indicative of a feeling of "us against the world"; criminals on one side and management/civilians on the other. There aren't too many Serpico's out there, and falling on your sword doesn't pay the bills or feeds your family. Figuring out how to change this culture takes time, money, and the political fortitude *from those just as flawed as the rest of us humans* to fix it. So, who gets to watch the watchers and judge the judgers?Quote:
There's nothing that can be done until the Blue Code of Gay Silence is broken and shattered by some cops with both morals and testicles.
That brotherhood happens a lot in other government departments. Just watch what happens to whistle blowers. It also happens in any large organization (NGO's, Corporations etc), and more so where the organization is under pressure, understaffed (and has a hard time recruiting, as management will be loath to let go any head count), and has a lack of transparency and accountability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito
One of the things that used to happen in the UK was that it wasn't local police that investigated police problems. It was police from another county. This doesn't address the code of silence. But it does remove one of the problems of mates having to investigate mates. It also removes management from the cycle where they may have vested interests in head count and empire building (having a bit of leverage on someone is excellent fodder for would be empire builders who delight in climbing the middle management ladder).
Make the system as a whole more transparent and accountable. Mind you this would mean that those in the upper echelons would have to be dealt with.
Excellent and succinct points about how the Uk investigates police crime. There is also another layer that you may not be aware of. The Police Complaints Authority.
In fact they may have even transcended them.
You're right, Tito, it exists on all levels of government, and Pape is right that it exists everywhere else, too. Anyone who has ever worked in any level of management for a company in which they started at the bottom and worked their way up probably saw their old chums turn cold to him/her once the job title changed. And then the peers in management may do or say things about the workers that is equally superficial and cold. On top of that, you have intra-company rivalries.
Not to sound pessimistic, but I don't think it will ever be fixed. The "tech up" idea is probably the best one so far, but even that is going to have its workarounds and flaws because its administered by humans.
I don't know about this whole "all cops are evil" mantra being chanted by some. I try to maintain a friendly, professional relationship with my local police. I'm not scared of them, but I also don't trust them unless it's one that I know very personally which, incidentally, means I'm part of the problem because in essence I'm getting preferential treatment from cops I grew up with or hung out with before they were cops. I've tried to be friends with cops, both new relationships initiated by them and relationships where I have known the guy all my life. It only works out if we never, ever discuss politics or police work. Not that we fight or anything, but eventually something is always said by the cop that just makes me not want to be around him anymore, I guess because they consider me one of the boys, I dunno. I'm sure I've told some of these stories at the .org before.
Indeed. It never ceases to amaze me how a local cop will let someone off for a traffic ticket if the person pulled over can name drop. I know many people who've done it. Things like that seem innocent enough, but preferential treatment is preferential treatment and it shouldn't happen in our justice system whether it's a speeding ticket, a DUI, or a serious crime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
I think "tech up" is a good starting point, but just having police watching each other isn't good enough. Police need to expect that everything they do while on duty is being watched and possibly taped by the public and they need to act with accordingly. Even though I think some of those cop watch groups can be obnoxious, I absolutely support what they're doing.
Britian has come up with a great way to see most crimes commited by police on urban streets.... i don't think it goes down to well with you lot having camera's everywhere though :tongue:
we can't use CCTV because it would make our electricity bills too high.
A recent local case: Judge resigns, attorney pleads guilty in tampering case.
Both the attorney & judge should lose their license to practice law, but this will be at the discretion of NYS Bar Association and State Politicians. The judge will get a mulligan and keep his law license, just like all the convicted & connected pols do like Spitzer, Hevesi, Crangle etal...Quote:
“I would expect that, as a consequence of this plea, Ms. Adams may lose her license to practice law.”
And that's the rub, politics, power, and human nature are a corrosive corruptible combination. Upper echelon also pretty much means self-regulating....Quote:
Make the system as a whole more transparent and accountable. Mind you this would mean that those in the upper echelons would have to be dealt with.