The Europa Barbarorum Quotes Project

https://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5488/hoo2qw5.png

Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans.


https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/58...ider800pa6.png

Here are the files for adding the new quotes to EB1.2

Download and extract the .zip-archive from here

https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/58...ider800pa6.png

Download and extract the .zip-archive.

Quotes goes in your EB/data/text folder.
Descr_quotes_lookup and descr_transition_screen go in your EB/data folder.

Say "yes" if asked to overwrite old files. It is always a good idea to backup your old files first, just in case. I will not of course take any responsibility if it all goes wrong somehow, although I might feel bad about it.

That's it. I have playtested these files on my own version of EB1 and have encountered no problems. If anyone does, PM me or post on this thread and I will do what I can to help.

The new quotes file contains ca. 240 quotes, at least half of which are new (you will have seen some of them on the quotes project thread). Almost all of the remaining old quotes have been redone to include correct citations and often the original language. A few old quotes do remain to be redone in this way.

https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/58...ider800pa6.png

I would like to invite you all to participate in an ongoing project to codify, correctly reference, and add variety to the loading screen quotes for Europa Barbarorum II. This is a chance for anyone and everyone to have something that they did included in the mod.

There are two parts to this task. The first is to go over the quotes that we have been using in EB1 and to better identify their sources. In many cases this would mean book, chapter and line numbers. This would be desirable even when the authenticity of the quote is not in question, as it would be an aid to anyone wishing to read further in the context of the original source, or if anyone wished to offer an improved translation.

For example, "Alea iacta est", "Let the dice fly high!" or "The die is cast." is I'm sure known by everyone in the RTW community as what Gaius Julius Caesar said when he crossed the Rubicon. However, even this simple and well-know quote would benefit from better citation.

Quote:

---

And so, when he was come to the river Rubicon, which was the boundary of the province allotted to him, he stood in silence and delayed to cross, reasoning with himself, of course, upon the magnitude of his adventure. Then, like one who casts himself from a precipice into a yawning abyss, he closed the eyes of reason and put a veil between them and his peril,

Ἑλληνιστὶ πρὸς τοὺς παρόντας ἐκβοήσας, "Ἀνερρίφθω κύβος," διεβίβαζε τὸν στρατόν.

He [Caesar] declared in Greek with loud voice to those who were present 'Let the die be cast' and led the army across.
Plutarch, 'Life of Pompey, 60.2.9'

---

Caesar was in fact borrowing a phrase from Menander, a Greek writer of comedy, and some sardonic humour or irony may have been intended, and not the usual modern sense of 'things have gone past the point of no return'. According to Lewis and Short, the phrase used was a future active imperative, Iacta alea esto, "Let the die be cast!", or "Let the game be ventured!" This is the meaning of Plutarch's third-person imperative ἀνεῤῥίφθω κύβος.

Another version of the incident is

Quote:

---

Cunctanti ostentum tale factum est. quidam eximia magnitudine et forma in proximo sedens repente apparuit harundine canens; ad quem audiendum cum praeter pastores plurimi etiam ex stationibus milites concurrissent interque eos et aeneatores, rapta ab uno tuba prosiliuit ad flumen et ingenti spiritu classicum exorsus pertendit ad alteram ripam. tunc Caesar: 'eatur,' inquit, 'quo deorum ostenta et inimicorum iniquitas uocat. iacta alea est,' inquit.

While he was thus hesitating, the following incident occurred. A person remarkable for his noble mien and graceful aspect, appeared close at hand, sitting and playing upon a pipe. When, not only the shepherds, but a number of soldiers also flocked from their posts to listen to him, and some trumpeters among them, he snatched a trumpet from one of them, ran to the river with it, and sounding the advance with a piercing blast, crossed to the other side. Upon this, Caesar exclaimed, " Let us go where the omens of the Gods and the iniquity of our enemies call us. The die is now cast."

Suetonius, Divus Iulius, paragraph 32/3

---

So just by correctly citing Plutarch and Suetonius, we open up a whole new world of possible meanings. Did Caesar speak in Greek or Latin? Was he being fatalistic, or was he trying to boost morale by being pithy and witty? There is not enough room on the loading screen for all of this, but a few line numbers make it possible for anyone to dig as deeply into it as they wish.

The second and probably more popular part of this project is to propose new quotes for inclusion into EB II. There are already many Greek and Latin authors, so it would be preferable to broaden our scope as much as possible. However, really good and interesting quotes from Latin or Greek are still worthwhile proposing.

What we're looking for are quotes contemporary to the 3rd century BCE and up to the 1st or 2nd century CE. Do not feel restricted to the 'Factions': quotes from or about any people on the map will be welcomed, from Lusitania to the Punjab and everywhere in between.

Sources from much later than our time period will probably not be considered. Beowulf, the Tain, the Hildebrandslied; these won't do. But it's better to try and find something good than not, so if in doubt post it.

Texts are the obvious place to look, but numismatic (coins) and epigraphic (inscriptions on stone) sources are also good. Someone could look into the Edicts of Ashoka, for example, or the Res Gestae.

The Perseus Project is a good place to start for texts, and my own Periplus thread has a lot of good links and some primary texts. There's lots out there, people. Go get 'em.


https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/58...ider800pa6.png


The Rules

1. No Spam will be tolerated. Spurious, "funny", or obscene posts will be deleted and the poster reported to global moderators if necessary. If the Team's time is wasted on policing juvenile spam, the project will be abandoned and the thread locked and/or deleted.

2. Read the Quotes already in EB or already proposed. Posting something that is already there just wastes everyone's time. A search of the thread will help determine if your author has already been posted.

3. Follow the Format, please.

Desired Format

Quote in original if possible
Quote translated
Author, Work, Chapter or Line if possible, other reference if not

4. The Team will decide which quotes will be included. There may be an upper limit to how many quotes are possible, and overall balance will also be a consideration. Ultimately, we'll decide which quotes go in the release, although anyone can modify their own version if they wish.


https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/58...ider800pa6.png




These Quotes Still Need Proper Citation (Updated June 12- I might have missed one or two)

Code:

---


{Author_102}        Aeschylus
{Quote_102}        In war, truth is the first casualty

{Author_114}        Dionysius of Halicarnassus
{Quote_114}        Only the brave enjoy noble and glorious deaths.

{Author_121}        Euripides
{Quote_121}        Danger gleams like sunshine to a brave man's eyes.

{Author_132}        Thucydides
{Quote_132}        Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.

{Author_138}        Hannibal, asked by Antiochus if his richly ornamented army was enough to defeat the Romans at Magnesia, ca. 189BC
{Quote_138}        Indeed they will be more than enough, even though the Romans are the greediest nation on earth!

{Author_141}        Athenogoras of Syracuse
{Quote_141}        If a man does not strike first, he will be the first struck.

{Author_144}        Polybius, The Histories, On the Mercenaries War
{Quote_144}        This war had lasted for three years and four months, and it far excelled all wars we know of in cruelty and defiance of principle.

{Author_28}        Thucydides
{Quote_28}        A collision at sea can ruin your entire day.

{Author_45}        Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_45}        In war there is no prize for runner-up.

{Author_51}        Hieronymus of Cardia
{Quote_51}        The Celts rushed on their enemy with the fury of a wild beast. Hacked with swords and axes, and pierced with missles, their rage died only with life itself. Some even plucked out the weapons that struck them and hurled them back at the Greeks.

{Author_57}        Polybius
{Quote_57}        A good general not only sees the way to victory, he also knows when victory is impossible.

{Author_58}        Polybius
{Quote_58}        In war we must always leave room for strokes of fortune, and accidents that cannot be foreseen.

{Author_62}        Lucius Annaeus Seneca
{Quote_62}        Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est                                                  A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.

{Author_67}        Socrates
{Quote_67}        A disorderly mob is no more an army than a heap of building materials is a house.

{Author_68}        Sophacles
{Quote_68}        Quick decisions are unsafe decisions.

{Author_75}        Thucydides
{Quote_75}        War is not so much a matter of weapons as of money.

{Author_77}        Hannibal Barca, addressing Phormio's lecture on leadership
{Quote_77}        I have seen during my life many an old fool; but this one beats them all.

{Author_82}        Xenophon
{Quote_82}        When one side goes against the enemy with the gods' gift of stronger morale, then their adversaries, as a rule, cannot withstand them.

{Author_87}        Aeschylus
{Quote_87}        ...now in place of the young men urns and ashes are carried home to houses of the fighters.

{Author_88}        Demosthenes
{Quote_88}        Beware lest in your anxiety to avoid war you obtain a master.

{Author_97}        Euripides
{Quote_97}        Courage may be taught as a child is taught to speak.

---

https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/58...ider800pa6.png

Don't everyone talk at once...


Here's an example or two;

Negat ullius consilium imperatoris in speciem audacius, re ipsa tutius fuisse quam suum: ad certam eos se uictoriam ducere
No commander has ever adopted a plan apparently more reckless, but actually more sure of success, than this of mine. I am leading you to certain victory.
Claudius Nero, marching to reinforce Livius at the Metaurus (Livy 27.45)

Basileos Basileon Arsakou Euergetou Dikaiou Epiphanous Philillenos
Of the King of Kings, Arsaces, Beneficent, Just, Outstanding, Friend to Greeks.
Legend on a Parthian Coin

Many of the societies from which we would like to have quotes were non-literate, or like the Gauls wrote mostly inscriptions using Greek letters. That's o.k., we could use some of that if someone can find something good.
The other way to get in quotes from non-literate peoples (or from peoples whose literature has not survived) is to look at Greek and Roman authors who wrote about them: Herodotus wrote about Scythians, Persians, Egyptians and everyone else. Tactitus and Arrian, though from a later time, wrote extensively about Germans, British, Indians and so on. Strabo and the other geographers might also have some quotable passages about almost anywhere on our map. So that's o.k. too.

And be creative: the Milinda Pañha or Questions of Milinda is a Buddhist text which dates from approximately 100 BCE, and it purports to record a dialogue in which the Indo-Greek king Menander I (Milinda in Pali) of Bactria, who reigned in the second century BCE, poses questions on Buddhism to the sage Nāgasena. So maybe there are some good Baktrian quotes there: or as I mentioned one could look in the Edicts of Ashoka:

Amtiyoko nama Yona-raja param ca tena Atiyokena cature 4 rajani Turamaye nama Amtikini nama Maka nama Alikasudaro nama
Now it is conquest by Dhamma that Beloved-of-the-Gods considers to be the best conquest. And it (conquest by Dhamma) has been won here, on the borders, even six hundred yojanas away, where the Greek king Antiochos rules, beyond there where the four kings named Ptolemy, Antigonos, Magas and Alexander rule, likewise in the south among the Cholas, the Pandyas, and as far as Tamraparni.
Rock Edict Nb13 (S. Dhammika)

No, this doesn't mean there's going to be a Mauryan faction in EB2: but an Indian quote that references Greeks is definitely worthy of consideration.

Two quotes from Aristotle's politics regarding kingship and tyranny:

hapantes gar euergetêsantes ê dunamenoi tas poleis ê ta ethnê euergetein etunchanon tês timês tautês, hoi men kata polemon kôlusantes douleuein, hôsper Kodros, hoi d' eleutherôsantes, hôsper Kuros, ê ktisantes ê ktêsamenoi chôran, hôsper hoi Lakedaimoniôn basileis kai Makedonôn kai Molottôn.
For in every instance this honor fell to men after they had conferred benefit or because they had the ability to confer benefit on their cities or their nations, some having prevented their enslavement in war, for instance Codrus, others having set them free, for instance Cyrus, or having settled or acquired territory, for instance the kings of Sparta and Macedon and the Molossians.
Aristotle, Politics, Book V, 1310b

dio kai tôn pleonektêmatôn ta men chrêmata turannika, ta d' eis timên basilika mallon: kai phulakê basilikê men politikê, turannikê de dia xenôn.
Hence even in their requisitions money is the aim of tyrants but rather marks of honor that of kings; and a king's body-guard consists of citizens, a tyrant's of foreign mercenaries.
Aristotle, Politics, Book V, 1311a


The first quote is a bit long... but interesting nontheless since it references the origin of Spartan, Makedonian and Molossan kingship (it does however NOT refer to the Hellenistic kings of each of the states) as being basically spear-conquered states.

I will post some more quotes if I stumble across any.



EDIT:
The detailed reference for the Aristophanes quote:

ANGELOS

ienai s' ekeleuon hoi stratêgoi têmeron
tacheôs labonta tous lochous kai tous lophous:
kapeita têrein neiphomenon tas esbolas.
hupo tous Choas gar kai Chutrous autoisi tis
êngeile lêistas embalein Boiôtious.

LAMACHOS

iô stratêgoi pleiones ê beltiones.
ou deina mê 'xeinai me mêd' heortasai;

HERALD

The Generals order you forthwith to take your battalions and your plumes, and, despite the snow, to go and guard our borders. They have learnt that a band of Boeotians intend taking advantage of the Feast of Cups to invade our country.

LAMACHUS

Ah! the Generals! they are numerous, but not good for much! It's cruel, not to be able to enjoy the feast!

Aristophanes, "Acharians", episode 4, lines 1073-9 [The "Ah! The Generals..." line is line 1078]

لَقيناهم بأَسيافٍ حِدادٍ *وأسدٍ لا تفر منَ المنيهْ/ وكان زعيمُهُمْ إذْ ذاكَ لَيثاً * هزبراً لا يبالي بالرزيهْ/ فخَلَّفناهُ وسْطَ القاع مُلْقى* وها أنا طالب قتل البقيهْ

“we met them with iron swords*and a lion that does not flee from the dying/and their leader was then a lion*, a lion who cares not for disaster/so we left him in the middle of the plain dumped*, and here I demand the slaying of the rest.”

-Antarah ibn shadad of Abas, about a victory against the hanthal tribe, c.600AD

EDIT: more:

أيا ابنة عبد الله، وابنة مالكٍ،* وبا ابنة َ ذي البُرْدينِ والفرَسِ الوردِ/ إذا ما صنعت الزاد، فالتمسي لهُ * أكيلاً، فإني لست آكلهُ وحدي / أخا طارقاً، أو جار بيتٍ، فإنني* أخافُ مَذَمّاتِ الأحاديثِ من بعدي / وإنّي لعَبْدُ الضّيفِ، ما دام ثاوياً* وما فيّ، إلاّ تلكَ،من شيمة ِ العَبدِ/

“Oh daughter of abd ullah and daughter of malik * and daughter(or abnah, another person) with the two cloaks and the rose horse /If I made provisions, then beseech for it* an eater, for I am not eating it alone;/ brother tariq, or neighbor of a house, for I * fear the blames of the sayings from after me/ and I am a servant of the guest, so long as he stays * and except for that, there is no trait of a servant within me.”

hatim at-taa'i, on generosity, and his motivation behind it. its like that king In EB who said no one should beat him in generosity.


I'll try to find more. and no, the translation is not perfect-Arabic is a pain to translate; I fear some of the origional intent was lost.

@moderators: someone should deal with the post above mine.

Seriously Skullheadhq, is it so damn hard, do follow the rules of this thread? :shame:

machinor would it be easy to post in the original greek with τόνοι, δασείες, περισπωμένες, etc?

The goal for EBII would be to use the original greek, wherever possible.

As far as I see it here, one of the most famous quotes of Caesar is not included:

Veni, vidi, vici

Gaius Iulius Caesar, describing his victory in the Battle of Zela over Pharnaces II of Pontus in his letter to Amintius 47 BC


"Pontico triumpho inter pompae fercula trium uerborum praetulit titulum veni vidi vici non acta belli significantem sicut ceteris, sed celeriter confecti notam"

During the pontic triumphal procession he (Caesar), among all the other stuff, let carry along an inscription consisting of 3 words: I came, I saw, I prevailed; unlike anything else it should not refer to what happened in the war, but how fast the enemy was defeated. (this is my own humble translation, surely you are better in it)

Caius Suetonius Tranquillus, De Vita Caesarum, VITA DIVI IVLI, 37

Also Plutarch is quoting this veni vidi vici somewhere...

O bellum magno opere pertimescendum, cum hanc sit habiturus Catilina scortorum cohortem praetoriam!

O how much is this war to be feared, for Catilina will have this guard of whores around himself! (again you might translate this better)

Marcus Tullius Cicero, Oratio in Catilinam Altera, 24

Machinor, thanks for kicking things off! And particularly for being the first to hunt down the cite for an existing quote!

Ibrahim, Swiss Barbar, good stuff!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by keravnos

machinor would it be easy to post in the original greek with τόνοι, δασείες, περισπωμένες, etc?

The goal for EBII would be to use the original greek, wherever possible.

---

Didn't think of that. I'll see what I can find. Unfortunatly the Perseus Project only features transliterated Greek texts and none written in Greek. ~:(

يَا مَعْشرَ بكْرٍ ، هالِكٌ مَعْذورٌ خير مِنْ ناجٍ فرور، إنّ الحذَر لا يُنجي من القَدَرِ، وإنّ الصّبْرَ مِنْ أسْبَابِ الظّفرِ، المَنيّة ولا الدَّنيّةُ، و استقبالُ الموتِ خير مِنْ استِدبَاره

"oh people of bakr! an excused dead is better than a running survivor*, and caution does not save from fate, patience is of the reasons of triumph, death and not dishonor, and recieving death is better than turning your back on it"

*routing off a battle.

haani ibn mas3uud at the battle of dhi qar, 609AD.

here is the link for the full speech:
http://www.iu.edu.sa/Edu/mutawasit/nusus3_1.htm

EDIT: in case anyone is wondering why I am using 6-7th century arab works, its threefold:
1-no speeches before 450AD
2-there is a shocking lack of speeches from Arabia-whether of saba', or any other Arabian people in EB.
3-some of these are fitting for EB, no? :wink:

Machinor, don't sweat it: if necessary I can enter in the greek text for quotes. BTW, all you have to do on Perseus is change display to show greek.

I am hoping to find some actual Punic to use for quotes. Here's a passage from Plautus, Poenulus, Act 5:

Quote:

---

Hyth alonim vualonuth sicorathi si ma com sith, Chi mach chumyth mumys tyal mictibariim ischi, Lipho canet luth bynuthi ad ædin bynuthii. Birnarob syllo homalonin uby misyrthoho Bythym mothym noctothii velech Antidasmachon. Yssidele berim thyfel yth chylys chon, tern, lyphul Uth bynim ysdibut thinno cuth ru Agorastocles Ythe manet ihy * * chyrsæ lycoch sith naso Byuni id chil luhili gerbylim lasibit thym Bodyalyth herayn nyn nuys lym moncoth lusim. [Exalonim volanus succuratim mistim Atticum esse Concubitum a bello cutim beant lalacant chona Enus es huiec silec panesse Athidamascon Alem * * induberte felono * * buthume Celtum comucro lueni, at enim avoso uber Bent hyach Aristoclem et se te aneche nasoctelia Elicos alemus [in] duberter mi comps vespiti Aodeanee lictor bodes jussum limnicolus.

---

According to Perseus, the first sentence "Hyth alonim vualonuth sicorathi si ma com sith" means "I worship the Gods and Goddesses who preside over this city" which is a ok quote.

Here is a link to an excellent site on Latino- and Graeco-Punic texts from North Africa but is highly technical.

There's also a book, Late Punic Epigraphy, By K. Jongeling, Robert M. Kerr, which is the current state-of-the-art on Punic inscriptions, but I have only seen it on google books preview.

There's also some interesting work being done at the Bavarian State Library in Munich, who are in the possession of hundreds of pieces of Sabaean miniscule script, like this:

http://www.uni-jena.de/img/unijena_/...vo/sp1_max.jpg

But I haven't seen any translations as yet.

Great idea! :2thumbsup:
Here is my humble contribution: specifying the source of this quote:
"Ignoranti, quem portum petat, nullus suus ventus est - If a man does not know to what port he is sailing, no wind is favourable" Seneca, Epistulae morales ad Lucilium, VIII, LXXI, 3.

Thanks for the tip, oudysseos. Wasn't aware of that display configuration thingy. :2thumbsup:

Here once again come the quotes. First the Aristophanes quote:

̓́Αγγελος

ἰέναι σ' ἐκέλευον οἱ στρατηγοὶ τήμερον
ταχέως λαβόντα τοὺς λόχους καὶ τοὺς λόφους:
κἄπειτα τηρει̂ν νειφόμενον τὰς ἐσβολάς.
ὑπὸ τοὺς Χοα̂ς γὰρ καὶ Χύτρους αὐτοι̂σί τις
ἤγγειλε λῃστὰς ἐμβαλει̂ν Βοιωτίους.

Λάμαχος

ἰὼ στρατηγοὶ πλείονες ἢ βελτίονες.
οὐ δεινὰ μὴ 'ξει̂ναί με μηδ' ἑορτάσαι;

HERALD

The Generals order you forthwith to take your battalions and your plumes, and, despite the snow, to go and guard our borders. They have learnt that a band of Boeotians intend taking advantage of the Feast of Cups to invade our country.

LAMACHUS

Ah! the Generals! they are numerous, but not good for much! It's cruel, not to be able to enjoy the feast!

Aristophanes, "[The] Acharnians", episode 4, lines 1073-9 [The "Ah! The Generals..." line is line 1078]


And the Aristotle ones:

ἅπαντες γὰρ εὐεργετήσαντες ἢ δυνάμενοι τὰς πόλεις ἢ τὰ ἔθνη εὐεργετει̂ν ἐτύγχανον τη̂ς τιμη̂ς ταύτης, οἱ μὲν κατὰ πόλεμον κωλύσαντες δουλεύειν, ὥσπερ Κόδρος, οἱ δ' ἐλευθερώσαντες, ὥσπερ Κυ̂ρος, ἢ κτίσαντες ἢ κτησάμενοι χώραν, ὥσπερ οἱ Λακεδαιμονίων βασιλει̂ς καὶ Μακεδόνων καὶ Μολοττω̂ν.
For in every instance this honor fell to men after they had conferred benefit or because they had the ability to confer benefit on their cities or their nations, some having prevented their enslavement in war, for instance Codrus, others having set them free, for instance Cyrus, or having settled or acquired territory, for instance the kings of Sparta and Macedon and the Molossians.
Aristotle, Politics, Book V, 1310b

βασιλικὸς δὲ τὸ καλόν. διὸ καὶ τω̂ν πλεονεκτημάτων τὰ μὲν χρήματα τυραννικὰ, τὰ δ' εἰς τιμὴν βασιλικὰ μα̂λλον: καὶ φυλακὴ βασιλικὴ μὲν πολιτική, τυραννικὴ δὲ διὰ ξένων.
Hence even in their requisitions money is the aim of tyrants but rather marks of honor that of kings; and a king's body-guard consists of citizens, a tyrant's of foreign mercenaries.
Aristotle, Politics, Book V, 1311a

Andraste basbhcoradhan - "Andrasta brings death to the wicked"
Inscription on a British idol to the goddess Andrasta
Andraste is mentioned only by Dio Cassius (or Cassius Dio) as invoked by Boudicca before battle. There are no dedications to her. Bás means "death" and coradh means a bend in a road, both in Irish. What he puts into Boudicca's mouth in Book 62 of his Roman History is largely ridiculous, repeating all the Roman ideas of the Britons as savage cavemen, but this one is good even though she probably never said it:
"Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves." (LXII, 5)

Tyn fian dwma fiatua!
I am a freeman in a free state!
Last words of Dumnorix. Refused to be a hostage, and killed by Julius Caesar's men
According to De Bello Gallica Book 5, VII: "He, [Dumnorix] however, when recalled, began to resist and defend himself with his hand, and implore the support of his people, often exclaiming that 'he was free and the subject of a free state.' They surround and kill the man as they had been commanded; but the Aeduan horsemen all return to Caesar." We don't have the original Gaulish and if we did, this certainly wouldn't be it. *Rêdis biu, tôtios tôtas rêdis imi or something like that.

Timidios di Albhae Bren!
For the true king of Britain!
Rallying cry of the Catuvellaunians/Casse
This is mocked-up Celtic again, a mixture of modern Welsh and Irish. You'd want something like *Rigonui uerui Pretannion... but how would we know what they shouted anyway? It's not in Caesar.

Toutava, marae, da augu, tosgo, mavi Vergalla!
For tribe, family, and honor, forward, sons of Great Gaul!
Inscription on a statue of Dis, the mythic founder of Gaul
Dis isn't the mythical founder of Gaul. He's a Roman god, equivalent to someone (we're not sure who) the Gauls believed in as some sort of ancestral God - if Caesar is correct.

These quotations look very suspect, and I'd ask for sources for them:

They say I am most beautiful of our tribe. How exquisite that I am then held to high standards. It is an honor to reward the gifts of the gods with dutiful service.
Orriagh Raighnaigha

I care nothing for my own life. In the service of the tribe, the king, and the kingdom, are all that matter. I must defend it, and all who live within it.
Llwnn yn Orddae

Rabo!
Ancient Celtic or Iberian warcry; forerunner of the dark age and medieval Gaelic 'Abu'

What Celtic writings do we have from (roughly) the EB period that are genuine? Unfortunately, there isn't much in Gaulish that's at all warlike... geneta imi daga uimpi is a well known one that means "I am a good and pretty girl". One of the longest Gaulish texts is the Larzac tablet, a long complaint and curse on a woman who swindled the author over some livestock. It includes the words: sue cluiou se dagisamo cele uiro íono ue ííobiíe beíiassu sete which, paraphrasing Bernard Mees' translation is "A hearing for this best companion, true and just, is desired: may you begin punishing!" As for the Britons, we seem to have nothing but coin legends and nothing but Ogam stones saying "X son of Y from tribe Z" for the Irish. There's no Gaulish in Egypt either: the temple grafitto in question was written by Galatians, but in Greek.

Here's some warlike Old Irish (search for "excellence of the ancient word" for more stuff like this)
dom roich mo coilg ndaighneimhneach,
frithálta mo sciath
"To my reach, my sword of burning poison, having attended to my shield"
-The Druid Mogh Ruith, Forbuis Druim Damhghaire

Sciebam me genuisse mortalem!
I knew that I procreated a mortal

- Anaxagoras' reaction on the message of his son's death -

Cicero, Rhetorica, Tusculanae Disputationes, Liber Tertius, 30


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nemo sibi tantummodo errat, sed alieni erroris et causa et auctor est.
No one is mistaken only for himself, he thereby also is the originator of the misapprehensions of others

Lucius Annaeus Seneca, De vita beata, 1,4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Eo de media nocte Caesar isdem ducibus usus qui nuntii ab Iccio venerant, Numidas et Cretas sagittarios et funditores Baleares subsidio oppidanis mittit

Not long after midnight, Caeser sent the citizens reinforcements/help, consisting of Numidian and Cretan archers and slingers from the Balearics, and let them be guided there by those who had come as messenger of Iccius.... or so :dizzy2:


- No important or famous quote, but it's about Cretan Archers and Balearic slingers - :2thumbsup:

Caesar - De Bello Gallico, Liber II, 7


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Translation's correctness not guaranteed

Swissbarbar - The Europa Barbarorum Quotes Project, Post 17

Correct reference for 2 Plato quotes from the Politeia:

1) "When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing more to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader."

ὅταν δέ γε οἰ̂μαι πρὸς τοὺς ἔξω ἐχθροὺς τοι̂ς μὲν καταλλαγῃ̂, τοὺς δὲ καὶ διαφθείρῃ, καὶ ἡσυχία ἐκείνων γένηται, πρω̂τον μὲν πολέμους τινὰς ἀεὶ κινει̂, ἵν' ἐν χρείᾳ ἡγεμόνος ὁ δη̂μος ᾐ̂.
But when, I suppose, he [the tyrant] has come to terms with some of his exiled enemies and has got others destroyed and is no longer disturbed by them, in the first place he is always stirring up some war so that the people may be in need of a leader.
Plato, Republic, Book VIII, 566a

2) "The rulers of the States are the only ones who should have the privilege of lying"

τοι̂ς ἄρχουσιν δὴ τη̂ς πόλεως, εἴπερ τισὶν ἄλλοις, προσήκει ψεύδεσθαι ἢ πολεμίων ἢ πολιτω̂ν ἕνεκα ἐπ' ὠφελίᾳ τη̂ς πόλεως, τοι̂ς δὲ ἄλλοις πα̂σιν οὐχ ἁπτέον του̂ τοιούτου:
The rulers then of the city may, if anybody, fitly lie on account of enemies or citizens for the benefit of the state; no others may have anything to do with it
Plato, Republic, Book III, 389b

Especially the second quote changes quite a bit in the correct quotation. It's obvious that the second one is a vanilla RTW quote.

Since I will be sitting at home the next few days, I'll check the correct references for the Homer quotes.

Reading Plutarch's account of the life of Pyrrhos, I found a passage that I felt would very well describe the nature of the times in which EB's campaign takes place and its leaders.
I'm sorry I can't give the Greek [original] version of this text, but while I was reading through the book, I found this quote which I found to be very intriguing.

"For how men to whose rapacity neither sea nor mountain nor uninhabitable desert sets a limit, men to whose inordinate desires the boundaries which separate Europe and Asia put no stop, can remain content with what they have and do one another no wrong when they are in close touch, it is impossible to say. Nay, they are perpetually at war, because plots and jealousies are parts of their natures, and they treat the two words, war and peace, like current coins, using whichever happens to be for their advantage, regardless of justice [...]"

My suggestions on how to excerpt the text to fit the loading screen:
"For how men to whose rapacity neither sea nor mountain nor uninhabitable desert sets a limit, [...] can remain content with what they have and do one another no wrong when they are in close touch, it is impossible to say."

Which leaves this as a possible separate quote and it works well on its own:
"Nay, they are perpetually at war, because plots and jealousies are parts of their natures, and they treat the two words, war and peace, like current coins, using whichever happens to be for their advantage, regardless of justice"

From Plutarch's "Parallel Lives", Vol. IX, Pyrrhos. Loeb Classical Library edition, translation by Bernadotte Perrin.

More from the same book:

And I found this one to be relevant to the nature of one of the major Hellenic factions:
"For he [Demetrios] found that the Macedonians were better disposed when they were on a campaign than when they were unoccupied, [and he himself was by nature entirely averse to keeping quiet.]"

After Pyrrhos was driven out of Macedonia by Lysimachos and returned to Epeiros, Plutarch describes him thus:
"But he thought it tedious to the point of nausea if he were not inflicting mischief on others or suffering it at others' hands, and like Achilles could not endure idleness."

I'll be more than glad to add more as I read on, if you find these to be useful.

"Uri vinciri verberari ferroque necari"

“(I will endure) to be burned, to be bound, to be beaten, and to be killed by the sword”

Gladiator's oath, Petronius, Satyricon 117

Wow guys, there's some great stuff here. I'm going to start working it in to the new quotes.txt.

Tell you what, the new quotes are for EB2, but once I get that done, I'll have a look at retrofitting the quotes for EB1 as well, 'cos otherwise it'd be a long time until anyone saw these.

If anyone is interested, you could look into Callimachus, Theocritus, Appolonius of Rhodes, Lycophron, Nicander, and Aratus of Soli: the Hellenistic Poets might be good sources for Greek quotes that are less well known. Perseus, Attalus and Theoi all have these guys online.

Re: the Celtic quotes: I just want everyone to know that there is in fact a source for these (and the Telam stuff that's been removed), that I have confirmed with a relative at Trinity the existence of the source, but that I have not had the time to truck down to the National Library and see what the deal is (a one-year old boy takes up a lot of time). Pursuant to my own goal of confirming/citing the quotes, I will provisionally remove all of the questionable quotes until such a time as I can see for myself where they come from and in what context. This, I should emphasize, is not an official team position, but something that I have taken upon myself.

In the mean time, I am willing to at least consider material from a later time period. I know this somewhat contradicts what I wrote in the original post, but I already told Ibrahim to go ahead with later Arabic material, and if Elmetiacos (or anyone) wants to look into the earliest Irish literature and find something really good, it's worthwhile at least posting it here and having a look.

P.S. It would save me some time if someone could send me the quotes.txt file from the latest EB1.2 build: I don't have RTW installed at the moment. I could put in some of the new quotes and post it as a mini-mod.


Thanks everyone, keep up the good work.

Μικρὸν ἀπὸ τοῦ ἡλίου μετάστηθι
Stand out of my sunlight

Diogenes replying to Alexander the Great's offer, that he had a free wish.

(That's one of my favourites, but IDK where to find the Original)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Μή μου τοὺς κύκλους τάραττε
Don't disturb my circles

Last words of Archimedes, addressed to a Roman soldier who tramped on his geometrical froms in the garden, when the Romans stormed the city of Syrakousai in the Second Punic War. The Soldier killed him, enraged by his words, though he had the order not to harm him.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληιάδεω Ἀχιλῆος
οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί' Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε' ἔθηκεν
Sing, Goddess, of the rage, of Peleus' son Achilles
the accursed rage, which brought pain to thousands of the Achaeans.

Homer, Ilias, first 2 lines.

Something from my favourite Nikolaos Kazantzakis and one of his less known but one of the best works of NK, ASKITIKI or Salvatores dei page 32

Ν'αγαπάς την ευθύνη. Να λες: Εγώ, εγώ μονάχος μου έχω χρέος να σώσω τη Γης. Αν δε σωθεί εγώ θα φταίω.

Love the responsibility. Say: Me, me on my own i have the duty to save the earth. In case she is not safe i will be responsible.

In case a better translation is available please do not hesitate to post here or in any other of my posts here.

I would like to apologise for you all because i will spent your time here. I had a manner to write everything i liked in all books i red the last 10 years and i have 500 pages with quotes like this...


Great post my companions.

The Homer quotes:


1) "There can be no covenants between men and lions, wolves and lambs can never be of one mind"

ὡς οὐκ ἔστι λέουσι καὶ ἀνδράσιν ὅρκια πιστά,
οὐδὲ λύκοι τε καὶ ἄρνες ὁμόφρονα θυμὸν ἔχουσιν
There can be no covenants between men and lions,
wolves and lambs can never be of one mind
Homer, Illiad, Book XXII, lines 262-263


2) "Fight for your country - that is the best, the only omen!"

εἱ̂ς οἰωνὸς ἄριστος ἀμύνεσθαι περὶ πάτρης.
There is one omen, and one only - that a man should fight for his country.
Homer, Illiad, Book XII, line 243


3) "The blade itself incites to violence"

Haven't found anything. This seems to be either a sloppy translation or a misquote.


4) "A glorious death is his who for his country falls"

ὃς δέ κεν ὑμέων
βλήμενος ἠὲ τυπεὶς θάνατον καὶ πότμον ἐπίσπῃ
τεθνάτω: οὔ οἱ ἀεικὲς ἀμυνομένῳ περὶ πάτρης
τεθνάμεν:
If any of you is struck by spear or sword and loses his life, let him die;
he dies with honor who dies fighting for his country;
Homer, Illiad, Book XV, lines 496-497 [the whole part I quoted are lines 494-497]


I used the Samuel Butler edition for all English translations as the first quote fits directly to that translation. However, anyone is welcome to bring some alternative translations as these are not always literal. For example the last quote would not mean "it is honorful/glorious to die for one's country" but literally "it is not shameful/unfitting to die for one's country". This is of course a matter of nuances but as such it should be open to debate... especially in a work of literature.

About Ateas, the famous King of Scythia.

Ἰσμηνίαν δὲ τὸν ἄριστον αὐλητὴν λαβὼν αἰχμάλωτον ἐκέλευσεν αὐλῆσαι· θαυμαζόντων δὲ τῶν ἄλλων αὐτὸς ὤμοσεν ἥδιον ἀκούειν τοῦ ἵππου χρεμετίζοντος.
He took prisoner Ismenias, an excellent piper, and commanded him to play; and when others admired him, he swore it was more pleasant to hear a horse neigh.
Plutarch, Moralia, Apophtegm of kings and famous commanders, 174e-f

Must place it in a special context: trusting Herodot, Scythians usually avoid to borrow foreign customs, particularly Hellenistic ones. But it seems that in this period (the large IVe) some of them adopted more and more ofen theses customs. So we have here something like a "cultural-conflict" :laugh4:

Σκιλοῦρος 〈ὁ〉 ὀγδοήκοντα παῖδας ἄρρενας ἀπολιπὼν ἐπεὶ τελευτᾶν ἔμελλε, δέσμην ἀκοντίων ἑκάστῳ προτείνων ἐκέλευσε καταθραῦσαι· πάντων δ´ ἀπαγορευσάντων, 〈ἓν〉 καθ´ ἓν αὐτὸς ἐξελὼν ἀκόντιον ἅπαντα ῥᾳδίως συνέκλασε, διδάσκων ἐκείνους ὅτι συνεστῶτες ἰσχυροὶ διαμενοῦσιν, ἀσθενεῖς δ´ ἔσονται διαλυθέντες καὶ στασιάσαντες.
Scilurus on his death-bed, being about to leave eighty sons surviving, offered a bundle of darts to each of them, and bade them break them. When all refused, drawing out one by one, he easily broke them; thus teaching them that, if they held together, they would continue strong, but if they fell out and were divided, they would become weak.
Plutarch, Moralia, Apophtegm of kings and famous commanders, 174f

I very like this one. :2thumbsup:

Fuisse apud eos et Herculem memorant, primumque omnium virorum fortium ituri in proelia canunt
They say that Hercules, too, once visited them; and when going into battle, they sing of him first of all heroes.
Tacitus, describing the germanic peoples, De Origine et situ Germanorum, Chapter 3,1

I will finally read through my Tacitus translation links, brb :book::book::book:

'If you want everyone in the world at your command, does it follow everyone must accept slavery?' (Nam si vos omnibus imperitare vultis, sequitur ut omnes servitutem accipiant?)
-Caratacos of the Catuvellauni before the Romans (Tacitus Annales Book 12)

Vae victis!
Woe to the Vanquished!
-Brennus, leader of the Gauls besieging Rome (Livy, Ab Urbe Condita)

'Our right we carry on the points of our swords, for to the brave belong all things.'
-the Gauls' reply to the Roman ambassadors (Livy, Ab Urbe Condita)

Here's a couple that I copied from The Celts: A History, by Dáithí O hOgain. There is a concordance of citations in the book: I'll hunt them up on Perseus and add in the original text where possible.

But Poseidonius, in the twenty-third book of his Histories, says, "The Celts sometimes have single combats at their entertainments. For having assembled in arms, they go through the exercise, and make feints at, and sometimes they even go so far as to wound one another. And being irritated by this, if the bystanders do not stop them, they will proceed even to kill one another. But in olden times," he continues, "there was a custom that a hind quarter of pork was put on the table, and the bravest man took it; and if any one else laid claim to it, then the two rose up to fight till one of them was slain".
Quoted in Athenaeus: The Deipnosophists

There is also that custom, barbarous and exotic, which attends most of the northern tribes — I mean the fact that when they depart from the battle they hang the heads of their enemies from the necks of their horses, and, when they have brought them home, nail the spectacle to the entrances of their homes. At any rate, Poseidonius says that he himself saw this spectacle in many places, and that, although at first he loathed it, afterwards, through his familiarity with it, he could bear it calmly. The heads of enemies of high repute, however, they used to embalm in cedar-oil and exhibit to strangers, and they would not deign to give them back even for a ransom of an equal weight of gold.
Strabo, 4.4.5

When they are stirred up they assemble in their bands for battle, quite openly and without forethought, so that they are easily handled by those who desire to outwit them; for at any time or place on whatever pretext you stir them up, you will have hem ready to face danger, even if they have nothing on their side but their own strength and courage... Their strength depends on their mighty bodies, and on their numbers.
Source to be found (Poseidonius)

They rushed on their enemy with the rage and fury and blind courage of a wild beast. Hacked with swords and axes, and pierced with darts and javelins, their fury only died with life itself. Indeed, some even plucked out the weapons that struck them and hurled them back at the Greeks, or used them in hand-to-hand fighting.
Hieronymus of Cardia


οὐ γὰρ θεὸν εἶναι τὸν ἐπιόντα ἐπὶ τὴν Ἑλλάδα ἀλλ' ἄνθρωπον, εἶναι δὲ θνητὸν οὐδένα οὐδὲ ἔσεσθαι τῷ κακὸν ἐξ ἀρχῆς γινομένῳ οὐ συνεμίχθη, τοῖσι δὲ μεγίστοισι αὐτῶν μέγιστα

The invader of Hellas was not a god but a human being, and there was not, and never would be, any mortal on whom some amount of evil was not bestowed at birth, with the greatest men receiving the largest share. The one marching against them was certain to fall from pride, since he was a mortal.

Herodotus, 7.203

ἀνὴρ ἄριστος γενέσθαι Σπαρτιήτης Διηνέκης: τὸν τόδε φασὶ εἰπεῖν τὸ ἔπος πρὶν ἢ συμμῖξαι σφέας τοῖσι Μήδοισι, πυθόμενον πρός τευ τῶν Τρηχινίων ὡς ἐπεὰν οἱ βάρβαροι ἀπίωσι τὰ τοξεύματα, τὸν ἥλιον ὑπὸ τοῦ πλήθεος τῶν ὀιστῶν ἀποκρύπτουσι: τοσοῦτο πλῆθος αὐτῶν εἶναι. [2] τὸν δὲ οὐκ ἐκπλαγέντα τούτοισι εἰπεῖν ἐν ἀλογίῃ ποιεύμενον τὸ Μήδων πλῆθος, ὡς πάντα σφι ἀγαθὰ ὁ Τρηχίνιος ξεῖνος ἀγγέλλοι, εἰ ἀποκρυπτόντων τῶν Μήδων τὸν ἥλιον ὑπὸ σκιῇ ἔσοιτο πρὸς αὐτοὺς ἡ μάχη καὶ οὐκ ἐν ἡλίῳ.

The Spartan Dieneces is said to have exhibited the greatest courage of all. They say that he made the following speech before they joined battle with the Medes: he had learned from a Trachinian that there were so many of the barbarians that when they shot their missiles, the sun was hidden by the multitude of their arrows. He was not at all disturbed by this and made light of the multitude of the Medes, saying that their Trachinian foreigner brought them good news. If the Medes hid the sun, they could fight them in the shade instead.

Herodotus, 7.226


Of course this is all raw material and will have to be edited to fit the loading screen.

Oh and thanks, Machinor. I'll get to work on that.

Nihil tam munitum quod non expugnari pecunia possit
Nothing is so well guarded, so it cannot be conquered by money

Marcus Tullius Cicero, In C. Verrem actio prima


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote currently in EB
In peace, sons bury their fathers; in war, fathers bury their sons
Herodotus

My suggestion:

οὐδεὶς γὰρ οὕτω ἀνόητος ἐστὶ ὅστις πόλεμον πρὸ εἰρήνης αἱρέεται· ἐν μὲν γὰρ τῇ οἱ παῖδες τοὺς πατέρας θάπτουσι, ἐν δὲ τῷ οἱ πατέρες τοὺς παῖδας

Nobody of sound mind, chooses war over peace, for in one case sons bury their fathers, in the other fathers bury their sons.

Ἡρόδοτος (Hēródotos), ἱστορίαι (historíai) 1, 87, 4


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote currently in EB
They make it a desert, and call it peace.
Calgacus, leader of the Caledonians: Tacitus

My suggestion:

Auferre trucidare rapere falsis nominibus imperium, atque ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant
To pillage, to do murder, to spoil, they call it the false name empire, and where they create a desert, they call it peace.

Speech of Calgacus, according to Publius Cornelius Tacitus, De vita et moribus Iulii Agricolae 30, 5


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote currently in EB
Hannibal knew how to gain a victory, but not how to use it
Maharbal

My suggestion:

Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis
You know how to win a victory, Hannibal, but not how to take advantage of it.

Marhabal, according to Titus Livius, ab urbe condita, book 22, 51


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote currently in EB
Molon Labe - Come and get them
The reply of Leonidas to Xerxes' demand to surrender his arms before the battle at Thermopylae

My suggestion:

Μολὼν λάβε
Come and get them - The reply of Leonidas.... (same as already in EB)

Leonidas, according to Lucius Mestrius Plutarchus (or Μέστριος Πλούταρχος), Apophthegmata Laconica, 225c.11

Well, we're off to a great start altogether. I've got 80 or so sourced and cited quotes, plus another 100 or so from EB1 that are good (but still need to be sourced). But don't stop: The more raw material we have, the more variety, and if we get enough great quotes, perhaps we can eliminate all the vanilla quotes (total conversion, eh?).

The Mauretanii...fight for the most part on horseback, with a javelin; and ride on the bareback of the horse, with bridles made of rushes. They have also swords. The foot soldiers present against the enemy, as shields, the skins of elephants. They wear the skins of lions, panthers, and bears, and sleep in them.
Strabo, Geography, XVII.iii.1-11

The Masaesylii and for the most part the Africans in general, wear the same dress and arms, and resemble one another in other respects; they ride horses which are small, but spirited and tractable, so as to be guided by a switch. They have collars made of cotton or of hair, from which hangs a leading-rein. Some follow, like dogs, without being led. They have a small shield of leather, and small lances with broad heads. Their tunics are loose, with wide borders; their cloak is a skin, as I have said before, which serves also as a breastplate.
Strabo, Geography, XVII.iii.1-11

The next-was a four-wheeled wagon fourteen cubits high and eight cubits wide; it was drawn by one hundred and eighty men. On it was an image of Dionysus---ten cubits high. He was pouring libations from a golden goblet, and had a purple tunic reaching to his feet. . .In front of him lay a Lacedaemonian goblet of gold, holding fifteen measures of wine, and a golden tripod, in which was a golden incense burner, and two golden bowls full of cassia and saffron; and a shade covered it round adorned with ivy and vine leaves, and all other kinds of greenery. To it were fastened chaplets and fillets, and ivy wands, drums, turbans, and actors' masks. After many other wagons came one twenty-five cubits long, and fifteen broad; and this was drawn by six hundred men. On this wagon was a sack, holding three thousand measures of wine, and consisting of leopards' skins sewn together. This sack allowed its liquor to escape, and it gradually flowed over the whole road.
Athanaeus, History, V.25 describes the procession of Ptolemy II Philadelphus in 285 BCE

The Ethiopian Megabarae have their clubs armed with iron knobs. They use spears and shields which are covered with raw hides. The other Ethiopians use bows and lances...they carried large shields made of raw hides, and hatchets for defensive weapons; some, however, had pikes, and others swords...the Ethiopians use bows of wood four cubits long, and hardened in the fire. The women also are armed, most of whom wear in the upper lip a copper ring.
Strabo, Geography, XVI.iv.4-17; XVII.i.53-54, ii.1-3, iii.1-11.

I am Cyrus, king of the universe, the great king, the powerful king, king of Babylon, king of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four quarters of the world, son of Cambyses, the great king,, king of the city of Anshan, grandson of Cyrus, the great king, ki[ng of the ci]ty of Anshan, descendant of Teispes, the great king, king of Anshan, the perpetual seed of kingship, whose reign Bel and Nabu love, and with whose kingship, to their joy, they concern themselves.
Cyrus Cylinder, Translation by Irving Finkel, Assistant Keeper, Department of the Middle East , British Museum

All kings who sit on thrones, from every quarter, from the Upper Sea to the Lower Sea, those who inhabit [remote distric]ts (and) the kings of the land of Amurru who live in tents, all of them, brought their weighty tribute into Shuanna, and kissed my[Cyrus] feet.
Cyrus Cylinder, Translation by Irving Finkel, Assistant Keeper, Department of the Middle East , British Museum

Demetrius, now twenty-two years old, [was sent]to make his first essay as sole commander in an important charge. He, whose youthful heat outran his experience, advancing against an adversary trained in Alexander's school, and practised in many encounters, incurred a great defeat near the town of Gaza, in which eight thousand of his men were taken and five thousand killed. His own tent, also his money, and all his private effects and furniture, were captured. These, however, Ptolemy sent back, together with his friends, accompanying them with the humane and courteous message, that they were not fighting for anything else but honour and dominion. Demetrius accepted the gift praying only to the gods not to leave him long in Ptolemy's debt, but to let him have an early chance of doing the like to him. He took his disaster, also, with the temper, not of a boy defeated in his attempt, but of an old and long-tried general familiar with reverse of fortune; he busied himself in collecting his men, replenishing his magazines, watching the allegiance of the cities, and drilling his new recruits.
Plutarch, Lives: Demetrius Poliorcetes

Megara, however, surrendered, and would have been pillaged by the soldiers, but for the urgent intercession of the Athenians. The garrison was driven out, and the city restored to independence. While he [Demetrius Poliorcetes] was occupied in this, he remembered that Stilpo, the philosopher, famous for his choice of a life of tranquillity, was residing here. He, therefore, sent for him, and begged to know whether anything belonging to him had been taken. "No," replied Stilpo, "I have not met with any one to take away knowledge." Pretty nearly all the servants in the city had been stolen away; and so, when Demetrius, renewing his courtesies to Stilpo, on taking leave of him, said, "I leave your city [Megara], Stilpo, a city of freemen." "Certainly," replied Stilpo, "there is not one serving man left among us all."
Plutarch, Lives: Demetrius Poliorcetes

For since in former times the Macedonian tactics proved themselves by experience capable of conquering those of Asia and Greece; while the Roman tactics sufficed to conquer the nations of Africa and all those of Western Europe; and since in our own day there have been numerous opportunities of comparing the men as well as their tactics, it will be, I think, a useful and worthy task to investigate their differences, and discover why it is that the Romans conquer and carry off the palm from their enemies in the operations of war: that we may not put it all down to Fortune, and congratulate them on their good luck.
Polybius, The Histories, Book XVIII, Chapters 28-32

Many considerations may easily convince us that, if only the phalanx has its proper formation and strength, nothing can resist it face to face or withstand its charge.
Polybius, The Histories, Book XVIII, Chapters 28-32

Of course, those generals who employ the phalanx must march over ground of every description, must pitch camps, occupy points of advantage, besiege, and be besieged, and meet with unexpected appearances of the enemy: for all these are part and parcel of war, and have an important and sometimes decisive influence on the ultimate victory. And in all these cases the Macedonian phalanx is difficult, and sometimes impossible, to handle, because the men cannot act either in squads or separately.
Polybius, The Histories, Book XVIII, Chapters 28-32

every Roman, once armed and on the field, is equally well-equipped for every place, time, or appearance of the enemy. He is, moreover, quite ready and needs to make no change, whether he is required to fight in the main body, or in a detachment, or in a single maniple, or even by himself. Therefore, as the individual members of the Roman force are so much more serviceable, their plans are also much more often attended by success than those of others.
Polybius, The Histories, Book XVIII, Chapters 28-32

Before all else I pray for your health and that you may always be well and prosperous, together with my sister and her daughter and my brother. I thank the Lord Serapis that when I was in danger at sea he straightway saved me. On arriving at Misenum, I received from Caesar three gold pieces for travelling expenses. And it is well with me.
Letter from Apion, a Roman recruit, to his father Epimachus [Select Papyri I (1932) #112 (2 A.D.)]

It was customary for the fetialis to carry in his hand a javelin pointed with steel, or burnt at the end and dipped in blood. This he took to the confines of the enemy's country, and in the presence of at least three persons of adult years, he spoke thus: Forasmuch as the state of the _____ has offended against the Roman People, the Quirites; and forasmuch as the Roman People the Quirites have ordered that there should be war with _____ and the Senate of the Roman People has duly voted that war should be made upon the enemy _____ : I, acting for the Roman People, declare and make actual war upon the enemy!
Livy, History of Rome, I.32[/I]

Ὦ ξεῖν’, ἀγγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίοις ὅτι τῇδε
κείμεθα, τοῖς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι.

O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde
keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.

Stranger, tell the Spartans that we lie here, obedient to their orders.
Simonides, Epitaph for the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae

And if we're gonna have Spartan quotes, then it's only fair:

If to die well is the greatest part of valour,
fortune granted to this to us above all men.
For in our eagerness to clothe Greece in liberty,
we lie in unaging good repute.
Simonides, Epigram for the Athenians at Plataea (trans. Hammond)

The valour of these men shall beget glory for ever undiminished,
so long as the gods allot rewards for courage,
for on foot and on their swift-moving ships they kept
all Greece from seeing the dawn of slavery.
Simonides, Epigram for the Victory at Salamis (trans. Hammond)

As the struggle went on indecisively, the Athenian soldiers revealed the fear in their hearts by the swaying of their bodies; it was a time of agony for them, for escape or destruction seemed every moment just at hand.
Thucydides, the break-out attempt at Syracuse

I would very much rather stand three times in the front of battle than bear one child.
Medea, Euripides (trans. Goldhill)

I do not have the origional arabic, but I figured this is of interest:

'"Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring."

al-jahith, book of animals.

I attach this, as it summs up EB nicely: change, adapt, or be conquered:skull:

Glory lies not in never failing but in standing up each time you fall.

Maybe in the future i will loose a battle but never a minute. Napoleon.

Foolish claims that they learn with their experience. I'd rather advantage from others experience. Bismark.

Strategy: the practice orientation of all means available to a general in success of a specific target. Moltke.

Leadership is the art of putting someone you want to be done because he want's to do it. Dwight D. Eisenhower.

Um, Niko, we're really looking for material germane to the Hellenistic Era, not any quote from any general at any time. But thanks for having a go, maybe you could look through Herodotus or something?

"Depositis autem operibus et machinamentis, quorum expleta iam pridem inventione nullam video ultra artium materiam."

A very rough translation: "Abandoning all considerations of works and engines of war, the invention of which has long since reached its limit, and the improvement of which I can see no further hope in the art."

-Frontinus, Strategemata, Book III, AD 90.

Penguinking, I like that one a lot: do you have a more complete citation?

Ibrahim, I'm eager to have some non-Graeco-Roman sources, but the quotes still have to fit into the general framework, i.e. relating to the period and people. If we take in quotes from a later time, they're still going to have to relate to the game somehow. Do you know of any early Arabic histories of the EB period? That kind of thing would be worth considering, or something like;

Quote:

---

And surely I recollected you, even when the lances were drinking my blood,
and bright swords of Indian make were dripping with my blood.
The Poem of Antar

---

Otherwise we have to look in Herodotus and Strabo for possible quotes, i.e.;

Quote:

---

Mariaba, the capital of the Sabaeans, is situated upon a mountain, well wooded. A king resides there, who determines absolutely all disputes and other matters; but he is forbidden to leave his palace, or if he does so, the rabble immediately assail him with stones, according to the direction of an oracle.
Strabo, Geography,XVI.iv.19

---

Quote:

---

Augustus Caesar's...intention [was] either to conciliate or subdue the Arabians...He hoped to acquire either opulent friends, or to overcome opulent enemies.
Strabo, Geography, XVI.iv.22

---

Quote:

---

The Nabataeans are prudent, and fond of accumulating property.
Strabo, Geography, XVI.iv.26

---

I'm surprised that no-one has put up Xenophon's most famous quote: I copied the whole passage as it's well worth reading (the quote will be shorter:laugh4:)

Quote:

---

καὶ ἀφικνοῦνται ἐπὶ τὸ ὄρος τῇ πέμπτῃ ἡμέρᾳ: ὄνομα δὲ τῷ ὄρει ἦν Θήχης. ἐπεὶ δὲ οἱ πρῶτοι ἐγένοντο ἐπὶ τοῦ ὄρους καὶ κατεῖδον τὴν θάλατταν, κραυγὴ πολλὴ ἐγένετο. [22] ἀκούσας δὲ ὁ Ξενοφῶν καὶ οἱ ὀπισθοφύλακες ᾠήθησαν ἔμπροσθεν ἄλλους ἐπιτίθεσθαι πολεμίους: εἵποντο γὰρ ὄπισθεν ἐκ τῆς καιομένης χώρας, καὶ αὐτῶν οἱ ὀπισθοφύλακες ἀπέκτεινάν τέ τινας καὶ ἐζώγρησαν ἐνέδραν ποιησάμενοι, καὶ γέρρα ἔλαβον δασειῶν βοῶν ὠμοβόεια ἀμφὶ τὰ εἴκοσιν. [23] ἐπειδὴ δὲ βοὴ πλείων τε ἐγίγνετο καὶ ἐγγύτερον καὶ οἱ ἀεὶ ἐπιόντες ἔθεον δρόμῳ ἐπὶ τοὺς ἀεὶ βοῶντας καὶ πολλῷ μείζων ἐγίγνετο ἡ βοὴ ὅσῳ δὴ πλείους ἐγίγνοντο+, [24] ἐδόκει δὴ μεῖζόν τι εἶναι τῷ Ξενοφῶντι, καὶ ἀναβὰς ἐφ' ἵππον καὶ Λύκιον καὶ τοὺς ἱππέας ἀναλαβὼν παρεβοήθει: καὶ τάχα δὴ ἀκούουσι βοώντων τῶν στρατιωτῶν θάλαττα θάλαττα καὶ παρεγγυώντων. ἔνθα δὴ ἔθεον πάντες καὶ οἱ ὀπισθοφύλακες, καὶ τὰ ὑποζύγια ἠλαύνετο καὶ οἱ ἵπποι. [25] ἐπεὶ δὲ ἀφίκοντο πάντες ἐπὶ τὸ ἄκρον, ἐνταῦθα δὴ περιέβαλλον ἀλλήλους καὶ στρατηγοὺς καὶ λοχαγοὺς δακρύοντες. καὶ ἐξαπίνης ὅτου δὴ παρεγγυήσαντος οἱ στρατιῶται φέρουσι λίθους καὶ ποιοῦσι κολωνὸν μέγαν.

kai aphiknountai epi to oros têi pemptêi hêmerai: onoma de tôi orei ên Thêchês. epei de hoi prôtoi egenonto epi tou orous kai kateidon tên thalattan, kraugê pollê egeneto. [22] akousas de ho Xenophôn kai hoi opisthophulakes ôiêthêsan emprosthen allous epitithesthai polemious: heiponto gar opisthen ek tês kaiomenês chôras, kai autôn hoi opisthophulakes apekteinan te tinas kai ezôgrêsan enedran poiêsamenoi, kai gerra elabon daseiôn boôn ômoboeia amphi ta eikosin. [23] epeidê de boê pleiôn te egigneto kai enguteron kai hoi aei epiontes etheon dromôi epi tous aei boôntas kai pollôi meizôn egigneto hê boê hosôi dê pleious egignonto+, [24] edokei dê meizon ti einai tôi Xenophônti, kai anabas eph' hippon kai Lukion kai tous hippeas analabôn pareboêthei: kai tacha dê akouousi boôntôn tôn stratiôtôn thalatta thalatta kai parenguôntôn. entha dê etheon pantes kai hoi opisthophulakes, kai ta hupozugia êlauneto kai hoi hippoi. [25] epei de aphikonto pantes epi to akron, entautha dê perieballon allêlous kai stratêgous kai lochagous dakruontes. kai exapinês hotou dê parenguêsantos hoi stratiôtai pherousi lithous kai poiousi kolônon megan.

On the fifth day they did in fact reach the mountain; its name was Theches. Now as soon as the vanguard got to the top of the mountain, a great shout went up. [22] And when Xenophon and the rearguard heard it, they imagined that other enemies were attacking in front; for enemies were following behind them from the district that was in flames, and the rearguard had killed some of them and captured others by setting an ambush, and had also taken about twenty wicker shields covered with raw, shaggy ox-hides. [23] But as the shout kept getting louder and nearer, as the successive ranks that came up all began to run at full speed toward the ranks ahead that were one after another joining in the shout, and as the shout kept growing far louder as the number of men grew steadily greater, it became quite clear to Xenophon that here was something of unusual importance; [24] so he mounted a horse, took with him Lycius and the cavalry, and pushed ahead to lend aid; and in a moment they heard the soldiers shouting, “The Sea! The Sea!” and passing the word along. Then all the troops of the rearguard likewise broke into a run, and the pack animals began racing ahead and the horses. [25] And when all had reached the summit, then indeed they fell to embracing one another, and generals and captains as well, with tears in their eyes. And on a sudden, at the bidding of some one or other, the soldiers began to bring stones and to build a great cairn.

...They heard the soldiers shouting, "The Sea! The Sea!"...and when all had reached the summit, then indeed they fell to embracing one another, and generals and captains as well, with tears in their eyes.
Xenophon, Anabasis, 4.7.21-25

---

Quote:

---

ταῦτα ἔδοξε, καὶ ἐποίουν ὀρθίους τοὺς λόχους. Ξενοφῶν δὲ ἀπιὼν ἐπὶ τὸ εὐώνυμον ἀπὸ τοῦ δεξιοῦ ἔλεγε τοῖς στρατιώταις: ἄνδρες, οὗτοί εἰσιν οὓς ὁρᾶτε μόνοι ἔτι ἡμῖν ἐμποδὼν τὸ μὴ ἤδη εἶναι ἔνθα πάλαι σπεύδομεν: τούτους, ἤν πως δυνώμεθα, καὶ ὠμοὺς δεῖ καταφαγεῖν.
tauta edoxe, kai epoioun orthious tous lochous. Xenophôn de apiôn epi to euônumon apo tou dexiou elege tois stratiôtais: andres, houtoi eisin hous horate monoi eti hêmin empodôn to mê êdê einai entha palai speudomen: toutous, ên pôs dunômetha, kai ômous dei kataphagein.
This plan was decided upon, and they proceeded to form the companies in column. And as Xenophon was going back from the right wing to the left, he said to the troops: “Soldiers, these men yonder whom you see are the only ones who still stand in the way of our being forthwith at the place we have long been striving to reach; if we possibly can, we must simply eat these fellows raw.”
Xenophon, Anabasis, 4.8.14

---

Quote:

---

εἴς γε μὴν τὸ εὐπειθεῖς εἶναι τοὺς ἀρχομένους μέγα μὲν τὸ [καὶ] λόγῳ διδάσκειν ὅσα ἀγαθὰ ἔνι ἐν τῷ πειθαρχεῖν, μέγα δὲ καὶ τὸ ἔργῳ [κατὰ τὸν νόμον] πλεονεκτεῖν μὲν ποιεῖν τοὺς εὐτάκτους, μειονεκτεῖν δὲ ἐν πᾶσι τοὺς ἀτακτοῦντας.
To make the men who are under your command obedient, it is important to impress on them by word of mouth the many advantages of obedience to authority, and no less important to see that good discipline brings gain and insubordination loss in every respect.
Xenophon, The Cavalry Commander, 1.1.24

---

Quote:

---

καὶ κατασκόπων δὲ πρὶν πόλεμον εἶναι δεῖ μεμεληκέναι
You must also have taken steps to enlist the services of spies before the outbreak of war.
Xenophon, The Cavalry Commander, 4.1.7

---

ΔΕΞΑ (Dexa) - "Take that" or "Catch" an inscription found on a 4th century BC sling bullet from Athens in the British Museum, Upper floor, Room 69, Greece and Rome: Daily Life

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...851.5-7.11.jpg

Think "Take that" is the more accurate translation but "Catch" is more funnier:laugh4:
Also read as ΔΕΞΑΙ (Dexai) in Foss, Clive. "A Bullet of Tissaphernes." The Journal of Hellenic Studies, 95, 25-30. 1975.

An update on how we're doing:

ca. 25 new Latin quotes
ca. 60 new Greek quotes
ca. 25 new quotes from other sources
maybe 10 old quotes with new source citations (about 100 left to go...).

So any relavent non-Graeco-Roman quotes would be great great great! But post whatever you find if you thinks it's good.

Can anyone find a Greek text for Plutarch's Sayings of Kings and Commanders? Online or otherwise?

http://remacle.org/bloodwolf/histori...esgeneraux.htm


The translation is in french but you can use english translation here
http://www.attalus.org/old/sayings1.html

One Bactrian quote, for once.

It's an extract of the poeme of Sophytôs' stele, found in Kandahar, and dated circa II century BC. The poem speaks about a called Sophytôs (who is not the maybe-king Sophytôs whom we have found some coins in this area), whose house was destroyed "by the Moires" (Μοιρων), and so he decided to use all the skills he has to accumulate a vast fortune to rebuild it.

This passage is interesting:

ως ἀρετην Εκατου Mουσεων τ'ησ(κ)ηκα σuν εσθλῄ
φuptηv σωφpoσuvηι, (t)ηµoς επεφpασαµηv
uψωσαιµι κε πως µεγαpov παtpoιov αuθις


"having cultivated the talent of the Archer and Muses
united with a noble wisdom, then I think
how to raise well above the house of my father again"

What's interesting is that whe have a native (his name is not greek) who appropriates greek gods and even maybe greek way of thinking because he speaks about Muses and Apollon ("the Archer"). What destroyed the hosue of his father is not develloped; "the Moires" is a way to tell about a stroke of fate imparable; maybe a war?

Especially, rare thing, it's a Bactrian source ^^

Deathfinger, well done indeed. And quickly too! Je vous remercie.

De rien ^^

I've used this website to find greek quotes about Scythians kings so... ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bobbin

ΔΕΞΑ (Dexa) - "Take that" or "Catch" an inscription found on a 4th century BC sling bullet from Athens in the British Museum, Upper floor, Room 69, Greece and Rome: Daily Life

---

Talk about finding the funny... that made my day! :laugh4:

I'd like to add some more Getai quotes, but I'm having trouble finding reliable sources.

Oudysseos sorry for not writting quotes from the hellenistic period.
It will be fixed ASASP. Now allow me to dedicate a few phrases to all EB companions.


If A=success then the equalization goes A=X+Y+Z. Wher X work, Y game and Z keeping your mouth closed...Albert Einstein

World is devited in two. People who does thigs and those who are payed for them(any resemblance between EB and RTW just occured) Dwight Morroe.

I make review by creating not finding mistakes. Michelangelo

Head without memory, place with out guard. Napoleon

Segui il tuo corso et lascia dir le genti. Strike your roαd and let the others saying. Dante Alighiery Holy comedy

Now back at work

Glory follows virtue like her shadow.Kikeron(I think Cicero in Latins)

Oh my soul do not seek eternal life but just purpose what you can achive. Pindar 3rd Pithionik-3
Ω ψυχή μου μη ζητάς αθάνατη ζωή, αλλ'επιδίωκε μονάχα οτι να κατορθωσεις μπορείς.

Our democracy is self-destructed because she abused the right of freedom and equality, because she teached citizens to account audacity as right, ilegality as freedom,cheekiness of speach as equality and anarchy as blessedness. ISOKRATIS

Η δημοκρατία μας αυτοκαταστρέφεται διοτι κατεχράσθη το δικαίωμα της ελευθερίας και της ισότητας, διοτι έμαθε τους πολίτες να θεωρούν την αυθάδεια ως δικαίωμα, την παρανομία ως ελευθερία, την ανάιδια λόγου ως ισότητα και την αναρχία ως ευδαιμονία(Ισοκράτης)

KERAVNOS PLEASE CHECK THIS TRANSLATION FROM GREEK TO ENGLISH IS IT RIGHT???

I will be back tomorrow.
keep on the great job companions.

But before he [Darius] came to the Danube, he first conquered the Getai, who believe in immortality: for the Thracians who occupy Salmydessos and are settled above the cities of Apollonia and Mesambria, the Kyrmianai and the Nipsaioi surrendered to Darius without fighting; but the Getai, the bravest and most upright in their dealings of all the people of Thrace, always obstinate, had to be subdued by force.
Herodotus Book 4 (Melpomene) 93
πρὶν δὲ ἀπικέσθαι ἐπὶ τὸν Ἴστρον, πρώτους αἱρέει Γέτας τοὺς ἀθανατίζοντας. οἱ μὲν γὰρ τὸν Σαλμυδησσὸν ἔχοντες Θρήικες καὶ ὑπὲρ Ἀπολλωνίης τε καὶ Μεσαμβρίης πόλιος οἰκημένοι, καλεύμενοι δὲ Κυρμιάναι καὶ Νιψαῖοι, ἀμαχητὶ σφέας αὐτοὺς παρέδοσαν Δαρείῳ· οἱ δὲ Γέται πρὸς ἀγνωμοσύνην τραπόμενοι αὐτίκα ἐδουλώθησαν, Θρηίκων ἐόντες ἀνδρηιότατοι καὶ δικαιότατοι.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bobbin

ΔΕΞΑ (Dexa) - "Take that" or "Catch" an inscription found on a 4th century BC sling bullet from Athens in the British Museum

---

Nice! Also, here's a link to the above.

I Am Herenow

Histories in Arabic?

that will actually be difficult to get a hold of. I have some Tabari, jahith and Ibn Khaldun, but what I have are fragments, and many do not provide much on history (the one tabari fragment I have is the part he says he bears no resposibility for any wrong info; jahth is advocating black superiority (he was an African Arab-he had issues with most Arabs), and Ibn Khaldun is discussing 3asabiyya, and how history works on a business cycle model:shrug:

the Arabic Forums and searches do not help, as Arabs are on Average very careless about what they post on line; as the old saying goes, "kullun 3inda al-3arab saboon"*...It does not help that the great library I used to have was left behind in Kuwait..so many books, so much information lost ~:(

that said, I shall double my search for sources in Arabic. perhaps if I get lucky, I will get a graphic description of a sassanid or byzanrtine defeat, those are easiest to get a hold of these days (1:10,000 chance of obtaining genuine info on them)...more valuable pre islamic stuff will be even more lucky.

*everything to the Arabs is soap..

About Yuezhei:

"(...)Later, the chanyu Laoshang of Xiongnu killed the Yuezhei's king, and he turned his head to drink a cup.(...)After their defeat against the Xiongnu, they went away, and crossing the [Da]yuan, at the West they attacked the Daxia and submitted it."
Sima Qian, Shiji, Chapter CXXIII, 3161-3162

About the original text....hm.... the extract is somewhere in this page (Chapter CXXIII, good luck xD)
http://www.google.com/gwt/n?u=http%3...i%2Fsj_123.htm

The chanyu is the king-like of the Xiongnu, and it seems that "Daxia" seems to be in fact Bactria and South-Sogdiana

There's juicy anecdotes about Xiongnu but they don't appear in EB, except if i'm wrong ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oudysseos

Penguinking, I like that one a lot: do you have a more complete citation?

---

It's from book III of the Strategemata.

Don't know if it is already in this thread (didn't plan to read it all):

Imperare sibi maximum imperium est
To rule yourself is the ultimate power
Epistulae morales ad Lucilium 113, 30

» Κῦρος δὲ ταῦτα ἀκούσας καὶ οὐ θωμάσας τὸν λόγον ἐκέλευε ποιέειν ταῦτα, οὕτω δὲ αὐτοῖσι παραίνεε κελεύων παρασκευάζεσθαι ὡς οὐκέτι ἄρξοντας ἀλλ᾽ ἀρξομένους· φιλέειν γὰρ ἐκ τῶν μαλακῶν χώρων μαλακοὺς γίνεσθαι· οὐ γὰρ τι τῆς αὐτῆς γῆς εἶναι καρπόν τε θωμαστὸν φύειν καὶ ἄνδρας ἀγαθοὺς τὰ πολέμια.

Cyrus, hearing this and not being surprised at the proposal, bade them do so if they would; but he exhorted them and bade them prepare in that case to be no longer rulers but subjects; "For," said he, "from lands which are not rugged men who are not rugged are apt to come forth, since it does not belong to the same land to bring forth fruits of the earth which are admirable and also men who are good in war."

Herodotus History Book 9 chapter 122 line 3.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hh/hh9120.htm

One of my favourite quotes from Herodotus but I can't tell where the bolded bit begins in the original Greek. Its alright to include Herodotus isn't it? he was widely read back in them days even if he belonged to an earlier age.

This regular use of quotes is an attractive feature, I recall similar (in fact many of the same) quotes on the event cards in that excellent boardgame "Successors".

"His white head and grey beard breathing out his strong soul in the dust, holding in his dear hands his groin all bloody" - Tyrtaeus.

This appears to be the author's own translation, and the only reference is 10. 24-25, but I would love to see this quote in EB2. Even if you retranslate it. :yes:

Desert, I gots that one~;). If you like it, go to Perseus and read Lycurgus, 'Against Leocrates'. The whole poem is at line 107 or so. Lycurgus didn't write it: he's quoting the Spartan Tyrtaeus. It's worth looking up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NIKOMAHOS

Oudysseos sorry for not writting quotes from the hellenistic period.
It will be fixed ASASP. Now allow me to dedicate a few phrases to all EB companions.


If A=success then the equalization goes A=X+Y+Z. Wher X work, Y game and Z keeping your mouth closed...Albert Einstein

World is devited in two. People who does thigs and those who are payed for them(any resemblance between EB and RTW just occured) Dwight Morroe.

I make review by creating not finding mistakes. Michelangelo

Head without memory, place with out guard. Napoleon

Segui il tuo corso et lascia dir le genti. Strike your roαd and let the others saying. Dante Alighiery Holy comedy

Now back at work

Glory follows virtue like her shadow.Kikeron(I think Cicero in Latins)

Oh my soul do not seek eternal life but just purpose what you can achive. Pindar 3rd Pithionik-3
Ω ψυχή μου μη ζητάς αθάνατη ζωή, αλλ'επιδίωκε μονάχα οτι να κατορθωσεις μπορείς.

Our democracy is self-destructed because she abused the right of freedom and equality, because she teached citizens to account audacity as right, ilegality as freedom,cheekiness of speach as equality and anarchy as blessedness. ISOKRATIS

Η δημοκρατία μας αυτοκαταστρέφεται διοτι κατεχράσθη το δικαίωμα της ελευθερίας και της ισότητας, διοτι έμαθε τους πολίτες να θεωρούν την αυθάδεια ως δικαίωμα, την παρανομία ως ελευθερία, την ανάιδια λόγου ως ισότητα και την αναρχία ως ευδαιμονία(Ισοκράτης)

KERAVNOS PLEASE CHECK THIS TRANSLATION FROM GREEK TO ENGLISH IS IT RIGHT???

I will be back tomorrow.
keep on the great job companions.

---

The problem is that you write in modern greek, whereas the stated goal is to have the ancient greek language of the time.

I'll look up some Persian quotes, I'll post later.

So my post up there was unnecessary.:sweatdrop:

Oh well. I'l just put this version up anyway.

Guard the old.
For shame it is to see an elder fall,
Down in the forefront, smitten in the strife,
Before the youths, with grey beard, hair grown white,
To breathe out in the dust his valiant life,
Clasping his bloody groin with clinging hands,
（Fit sight indeed to kindle wrath and shame!）
His body bared.

Lycurgus, quoting Tyrtaeus in Against Leocrates, 107: 20-27

I'll leave it to you to extract the Greek equivalent: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...107#note-link3


ἐς τὰ ἐπὶ θάτερά τε τοῦ ποταμοῦ παραστάντες οἱ Συρακόσιοι（ἦν δὲ κρημνῶδες） ἔβαλλον ἄνωθεν τοὺς Ἀθηναίους, πίνοντάς τε τοὺς πολλοὺς ἀσμένους καὶ ἐν κοίλῳ ὄντι τῷ ποταμῷ ἐν σφίσιν αὐτοῖς ταρασσομένους. οἵ τε Πελοποννήσιοι ἐπικαταβάντες τοὺς ἐν τῷ ποταμῷ μάλιστα ἔσφαζον. καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ εὐθὺς διέφθαρτο, ἀλλ᾽ οὐδὲν ἧσσον ἐπίνετό τε ὁμοῦ τῷ πηλῷ ᾑματωμένον καὶ περιμάχητον ἦν τοῖς πολλοῖς.

The Syracusans stood upon the further bank of the river, which was steep, and hurled missiles from above on the Athenians, who were huddled together in the deep bed of the stream and for the most part were drinking greedily. The Peloponnesians came down the bank and slaughtered them, falling chiefly upon those who were in the river. Whereupon the water at once became foul, but was drunk all the same, although muddy and dyed with blood, and the crowd fought for it.


Thuycidides, The History of the Peloponnesian War Book VII, Chapter 84, Lines 4-5

The accuracies of the following can be argued:

"Tell me, who are the Spartans?"
--Cyrus the Great, according to Herodotus (kind of a premonition)

And my favorite (note that the exact wording varies, depending on the source):
"O man, whoever you are and wherever you come from, for I know that you will come–I am Cyrus, who founded the Empire of the Persians and was king of the East. Do not begrudge me this spot of earth which covers my body.”
I think this it Plutarch's version of the inscription. It's been weathered away over the centuries so we can't verify what it actually said (or if it even said anything).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NIKOMAHOS

Segui il tuo corso et lascia dir le genti. Strike your roαd and let the others saying. Dante Alighiery Holy comedy

---

That's not really a good translation, what that actually means is Continue on your path(keep on going) and let others do the talking. It's kinda hard to translate 'cause it's 11th century italian.
But i have an old italian proverb my grandfather told me:"Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......
Great job everyone!:2thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cyrus

That's not really a good translation, what that actually means is Continue on your path(keep on going) and let others do the talking. It's kinda hard to translate 'cause it's 14th century italian.
:

---

much better.

anyways, I finally found another poem, this one is much earlier than 550AD:

سلام في الصحيفة من لقيط إلى من بالجزيرة من إياد/بأن الليث كسرى قد أتاكم فلا يشغلكم سوق النقاد /أتاكم منهم ستون ألفاً يزجّون الكتائب كالجَراد /على حنق أتينكم فهذا أوان هلاككم كهلاك عاد

"peace in the scroll, from laqeet to whoever is at the jazeera from iyad/ that the lion, kisra (the persian shah), has come to you so do not be occupied by the money market/ he comes to you sixty thousand throwing** the battalions like the locusts/ on spite he comes to you, for this is the time for you to die the death of 3ad"

laqeet ibn ya3mur al-iyadiy, warning his tribe of an attack, c.380AD*.

I went here: http://adab.com/modules.php?name=Sh3...17&r=&start=30

where I got all the other poems.

**can be rendered "mustering". the languahe here is euphemistic.

I found a quote in an EB1 thread , in a post from Africanvs (#4), so the credit should be for him, but I liked it very much:
" If you wish to command everyone, does it really follow that everyone should accept your slavery?" By Caratacus.

It also sound familiar, maybe it is n EB quote actually but anyway I hope it can make it, in the final selection.

Its already in, just worded slightly differently.
"If Rome wishes to rule the world, does it follow that all others wish to be slaves?"
King Caratacus, as quoted by Tacitus

This could be one:

Neither Philip II nor his son Alexander the Great even attempted to conquer Sparta: it was too weak to be a major threat that needed to be eliminated, but Spartan martial skill was still such that any invasion would have risked potentially high losses. Even during her decline, Sparta never forgot its claims on being the "defender of Hellenism" and its Laconic wit. An anecdote has it that when Philip II sent a message to Sparta saying "If I enter Laconia, I will level Sparta to the ground," the Spartans responded with the single, terse reply: "If."

I'd forgotten about that quote...wasn't it in Vanilla?

i dont think so. of course i havent played vanilla since probably...oh.....2006?

Wasn't it "Yes" that they replied?
I'll have to check that when I have time, I'm not 100% sure.

what? they wouldn't reply yes.......

No they replyed: "If".

thats what im saying

Hmmm. The point of this thread is accurate citation: I happen to know the source for that quote. Does anyone else?

Well I guess not:

Quote:

---

Philip wrote at the time when he entered their [Sparta's] country, asking whether they wished that he should come as a friend or as a foe; and they made answer, "Neither."

---

Plutarch, Apophthegmata Laconica

Here's another good one:

Quote:

---

When Philip of Macedon sent some orders to the Spartans by letter, they wrote in reply, "What you wrote about? No."

---

Plutarch, Apophthegmata Laconica

Those two are much more likely, but the original is much more heroic/classically romantic, don't you think? :beam:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oudysseos

Here's another good one:

Quote:

---

When Philip of Macedon sent some orders to the Spartans by letter, they wrote in reply, "What you wrote about? No."

---

Plutarch, Apophthegmata Laconica

---

wait......what did he write about? i dont get it..................:help:

Its a different version of your quote. He talks of the same thing. It's not really that confusing...

my head hurets. i need an advil.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oudysseos

Hmmm. The point of this thread is accurate citation: I happen to know the source for that quote. Does anyone else?

Well I guess not:

Quote:

---

Philip wrote at the time when he entered their [Sparta's] country, asking whether they wished that he should come as a friend or as a foe; and they made answer, "Neither."

---

Plutarch, Apophthegmata Laconica

---

Ah, there you go.
I'm fairly certain about the other quote, with their reply to his threats, but there is the possibility that some of the meaning may have been lost in translation.

I don't remember the above quote, but I like it!

Men are basically smart or dumb and lazy or ambitious. The dumb and ambitious ones are dangerous and I get rid of them. The dumb and lazy ones I give mundane duties. The smart ambitious ones I put on my staff. The smart and lazy ones I make my commanders.

- Erwin Rommel

http://www.memorablequotations.com/rommel.htm

It's way out of our timeline, but it actually describes the Sharp, Pessimistic, Selfish, etc. traits pretty well.

Heh- that's a good one, Desert. Can't use it of course.

John117 - Did you take your advil? 'Cos the issue is really very simple: my goal is to confirm the original sources of our quotes, mate, not to throw in spurious "quotes" just because the sound cool. Your 'Spartans answering if' (which you cut-and-pasted from Wikipedia) is probably a paraphrase or mistranslation (by Norman Davies, I believe) of the Plutarch quote that I posted above: it's like "Play it again Sam", something that everybody thought was said but actually never really was. But if you can find the Greek text that's another story.

No original text (or accurate reference to same) = not in game.


Oh by the way, I have found the likely sources for the controversial Celtic quotes (although I have not tracked down the quotes themselves yet), and I have even found reference to the infamous 'Cycle of Don'. But the issue of Celtic quotations hasn't changed: there is no literature contemporary to our period: the earliest Irish manuscripts are 12th century, though they contain texts said to be copied from the 6th century on, these are still a good 700 years too late for us. I will put up some examples of the earliest Old Irish poetry but we probably won't use it.


I have a usable collection of quotes for EB2, although I will be happy to add to it if someone finds something really good. I have included many/most of the legitimate suggestions from this thread, as well as some surprises from our internal quotes thread. However, since it'll be a long wait, I am putting the finishing touches on a new quotes.txt for EB1. Coming soon!

P.S. John117? The latin in your joke is still wrong. 'Mihi martinum da'

oh thanks. ill change it immediately (even though i aced latin :P)

If you say so. Now how 'bout the bouncing boobs? Funny for about 12 seconds but gettin' old, chief.


Here's an example of old Irish poetry:

Quote:

---

Lie na Rig i Femun,
Caithir Ronain i mBregun,
cian o ros-siachtar sina;
a lleicne nit senchrina.

The King's stone in Femen,
Ronan's Fort in Bregon;
Storms have long since reached them,
but their cheeks are not old and withered.

The Nun of Beare, PRIA LV, C, 83-109, trans. O'Connor

---

Quote:

---

Borg Ailline uallach
at-bath lia shlog mbagach.

The proud settlement of Aillin has died with its boasting hosts.

Felire Oengusso, 23-27, trans. O'Connor

---

Quote:

---

Gair a ilaig iar cach mbuaid
im chuail claideb, comtaig drend;
brig a fian fri indna gorm,
gloim a corn for cetaib cend.

The shout of its triumph after each victory round a tangle of swords,
a fiery encounter; the strength of its mercenary bands against the great battle array,
the shriek of its horns over hundreds of heads.

Book of Leinster (DIAS) 7148-251, trans. O'Connor

---

Beautiful stuff! But I probably won't put it in.

how about ancient hebrew texts? like about military and stuff.

Sure! Lay it on me! Especially if it's from the wider TaNaKh and not just what Christians call the Bible. Or Talmud/Mishnah, although it'll have to be reasonable germane to the period. But yeah, bring it on. Just be conscientious about the citation, please.

P.S. Not quite there on the Latin yet: the 2nd declension accusative plural ending is -os, not -i. For the joke to work you'll have to put it into the vocative. How, I don't know. Caesar is talking to his martine? (the plural vocative of martinus is martini). Or how about, Caesar: "This martinus is good". Bartender: "Don't you mean martini"? Caesar: "I haven't had that much to drink yet!"

i think mostly everybody gets what im saying, thats all that matters.

anyway, i didnt mean to say i had any, but i could definitely find some (i think battles bc is on tonight)

oh, how about what hasdrubal said to hannibal after cannae:

"Hannibal, you know how to gain a victory, but not how to use it."

and i sincerely hope "alea iacta est" is in there.