Effective tactics, who has em?

After moving to the year 1730 or so in my Prussian campaign on VH/VH, it has become clear to me that I have plenty of lessons to learn on how to keep troops alive in ETW. I had been victorious in capturing the majority of the Baltic coast, but now that I am at war with Austria, Great Britain, and the United Provinces I am facing greater numbers and my tactics are obviously not cutting it. I have lost 3 of my last 4 major battles, luckily I haven't lost any territory as a result. But I am pretty much stretched to my maximum capacity and can't afford to lose 2/3 of an army in a loss or victory.

I am really interested to hear what people are finding to be effective in initial troop placement and general tactics once the battle has started. I haven't really brought troops into melee in battles and this may be part of my problem (just a guess since bayonets are very key in the military tech tree).

One of the best ways is to limit your enemies. It isn't just tactics on the ground in Empire: Total War. The other ways is how to manage things like research and economy which gives you a big edge over the enemy.

How ever, if you got lots of money and really struggling to produce the troops, keep making tons of generals. Aren't the best, but you can use them to weaker the enemies armies severely. (if you got the money to keep doing them, they cost 1300 each)

Bring in Allies to distract your enemies. I'd suggest France, Russia and the Ottomans. Have a good old fahioned War of the Austrian Succession/Seven Years.

I like to start out with a very mobile army by having a decent amount of calvary. I line up my line troops/militia in the center, use calvary to harrass enemies flanks, take out their general, take on their artillary, and to hit them from behind (as I am sure most people do). I find that launching a calvary attack out of the trees where they were hidden seams to still work great as in past TW games. I always keep some pike near my general, especially if I am using all my calvary to harras the enemy, since the AI has been throwing a lot of cav sneak attacks trying to take out my leader. I also play very patient. If I have cannon in range, I will let them fire away even if the enemy is far enough away that it takes a lot of shots to get a direct hit. Weakening the enemies line troops by even just a few seems to give me a huge edge when I engage with my line troops, so be willing to milk the clock to launch as much artillary at them as possible. Also, I have had mixed success but am getting the hang of trying to draw the enemey where I want them by using my general as bait. If I micro enough, I can lure out units as they go for my gen and I can skirmish the enemy and try to split their forces up a bit. When I get home after work I plan to start learning how to use more hit and run tactics with my fast infantry units to harras the enemy as they either approach my main forces or my main forces approach them. The goal with this is to get an enemy unit to break formation and go after my fast infantry and then take them out with calvary before the enemy can react. I also want to work at taking more advantage of cover, as I bet I can cut loses by another 10 percent per battle by just making better use of the surround fences, buildings, hills, ect....

I use one tactic, and one tactic only: shoot everyone! Sometimes works, mostly doesn't.

What tactics are you using right now Ardri and how do the battles play out?

I pick fights with tiny nations, but only to get at their allies when they declare war on me!

I form my army with 2-3 artillery pieces stationed behind my infantry line which I arrange in a double line pattern. I'll assemble 4 calvary units I use to flank the enemy. All the battles I fight basically come down to whose unit is going to crack last because I normally route nearly all the computer and they nearly route all of mine. Out of a 2,500 man army after a battle, even a victory, I normally have around 500 men left. I've resorted to just putting a 2nd stack of infantry units in reinforcement range and I use the second stack to come in a whipe out the few remaining units the computer has to be victorious.

So far it has worked as I have conquered west along the coast to Amsterdam, east to Courland, and south to Bohemia. Would be nice to fight a battle though and no that I won't be losing an entire stack. And I have found Poland and Russia to be extremely valuable allies versus Austria.

-I usually deploy a main line composed of four units in the center, cannons on one of my flanks defended by one or two units, and an auxiliary force on the other flank usually the same size as my main line. The main line advances and engages the enemy in protracted volley exchanges, pinning them down so the batteries can get off some good shots on them. My auxiliary force then moves up on their flank and begins to push. I mostly use cavalry to intercept enemy units trying to move around my flank or to take out enemy batteries or the general if they're exposed.

-When enemy units start routing I have my cavalry pursue if they're still at half-strenght or more to make sure they leave the battle. My infantry is deployed in three ranks if I expect volley exchanges and five ranks if melee is probable. Constant maneuvering of your units is important to make sure they're working at peak efficiency.

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Originally Posted by Ardri

I form my army with 2-3 artillery pieces stationed behind my infantry line which I arrange in a double line pattern. I'll assemble 4 calvary units I use to flank the enemy. All the battles I fight basically come down to whose unit is going to crack last because I normally route nearly all the computer and they nearly route all of mine. Out of a 2,500 man army after a battle, even a victory, I normally have around 500 men left. I've resorted to just putting a 2nd stack of infantry units in reinforcement range and I use the second stack to come in a whipe out the few remaining units the computer has to be victorious.

So far it has worked as I have conquered west along the coast to Amsterdam, east to Courland, and south to Bohemia. Would be nice to fight a battle though and no that I won't be losing an entire stack. And I have found Poland and Russia to be extremely valuable allies versus Austria.

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I'd use a double line formation as well, but instead of flanking with my cavalry I'd just part of my 2nd line as a swinging wing to outflank (I use crappier infantry in the 1st line to soak up bullets, and you need infantry with better melee stats for the flanking assault anyway). I use my cavalry to neutralize theirs and/or kite their other units (also try to get their art. with your cav, or even draw cannon fire away from your assaulting infantry columns). Try to get them to commit their reserves to one side of their line and you can roll up the other end with a few infantry units.

A tactic I tried in a previous game like ETW (I think it was called Imperial Glory) was to run my cav around near their infantry to force them into square, then hit them art. and infantry 1 or 2 volleys and assault. I'm thinking if you get 3 or 4 to rout quickly its over. This was also a tactic done in real life :2thumbsup:

I just spam line infantry, millions of them and once in battle I assemble them in a long line with a couple of extra in the middle and on the sides. A couple of artillery doesn't hurt though.

Once engaged I have one rule: hold the line. Reinforce with the spares in any gaps in the wall and use the extras on the sides for some raking fire(it's awesome in this game, one good raking volley and the enemy instantly routs).

It may not be the best of tactics but in an even "balance of power" battle I usually lose at most 30-40% of my troops while killing all of theirs. The only use I've seen for cavalry so far is to chase them down once they rout so as to not allow them to flee with half their army.

A couple of pointers:

- You need a balanced force. For a full stack, I'd go with something like 4 cavalry, 4 cannons, and 12 infantry.

- Artillery should be in the gaps of your line - not behind it (unless they are indirect fire). With a setup like the above, I'd probably do 4 inf, 2 arty, 4 inf, 2 arty, and 4 inf. Placing artillery behind your infantry is a good way to cause friendly fire, and you will be unable to use cannister effectively.

- Use cannister. Remember to control the artillery, so that they don't waste shots firing at enemy artillery far away. Turn every gun possible on the enemy's elite troops.

- Always have an infantry reserve. A two line system is excellent (remember to switch off the fire at will on the back line and to switch it on again when they move into combat). If the front line of troops get down to 50%, switch lines at the double.

- The AI will rarely engage all of your line at the same time. Swing your infantry round their flanks.

- Avoid getting obsessed by enemy artillery. They inflict very few casaulties, and can almost always be safely left until after you have routed all of his infantry.

- Never let your cavalry within reach of enemy muskets. You can (and should) use your cavalry to outflank and rout enemy infantry, but never do it when you can see that the enemy will be able to deploy into a firing line.

- Most important: Patience! Never move rashly, as it opens you up to enemy cavalry charges (the one thing that the AI can sometimes do well). Patience.

You shouldn't be losing more than 20 - 25% of the AI strength, unless the battle is veryy lopsided, and if with a proper (i.e., correctly tuned army stack), you should be more than capably of inflicting 1200-1300 casulties with only a few hundred of your own.

I do the standard line of infantry, artillery with cavalry at the sides and the general behind. But I always keep some elite troops in reserve. Once I find out what part of the enemy line is weakest I use the reserve troops to put more pressure on it. Then I close in for melee on that part of the line and hopefully break it. That's when I rush troops in through the hole to get behind the enemy then order the rest of the line to close to melee.

These all seem like rather safe, standard defense tactics, rather than offence. Anyone got any ideas for offence?

Simple advance and flank works well.

If you have numbers on your side melee will work fine if your troops are rather bad.

Move cannons up and bombard as long as you can. Try and take out their cannons as well.

Survive until you've got advanced tech like Platoon Firing and stuff. Then your line infantry (which is the most useful unit out there) will win any ranged battle.

So far here's my list of no-do's:
- NO melee for infantry (unless you have to, of course, but shooting is preferrable);
- NO putting artillery right behind your line (they're braindead apparently and will fire that canister shot through your line - always watch them, in case they get so lost that they start hitting even each other - seriously, I had that :inquisitive:);
- NO letting your general fight much. He's way too fragile.

I've noticed my casualties are still always very high (around one to three). 'That normal, or do I suck at 18th century warfare? By looking at unit stats, I would say it's because the units are all similar (too similar if you ask me... the grenadiers are supposed to be elite melee units, the way they were used, and here they're almost the same as the line infantry).

Search up some 18th century battles, and you'll see that a 3 to 1 kill to deaths ratio is excellent.

You're right, I posted that without considering the Seven Years War, for instance... Still, in game terms, it's not very satisfactory. I expect militia to rout, not to hold out like some royal guard against grenadiers! Who by the way are supposed to be beasts in melee, but here they've been dumbed down...

Depends on your tech. If they have bayonets, and you have a rudimentary club, then even the strongest, tallest men will falter.

I'm playing on M/M and have almost all techs researched (all military ones, at any rate).

I've been finding my casualties to be much higher than previous TW titles. I think its because the hammer and anvil tactics I'm used to no longer work when gunpowder comes into the equation.

I really need to adapt to 18th C. warfare. :help:

It's quite satisfying seeing all the people who would otherwise have found the AI a pushover, to be difficult and challenging. This leaves me to believe that the people who don't play Empire because they dislike this time period are actually afraid of getting their butts handed to them by the AI.

I'm now playing RTI on normal/normal, as a starter.

On land battles, the AI is constantly trying to outflank. It does poorly when outnumbered but whenever it's at equal strength or on superior numbers it gives me a hard time. I lost a few battles, something I didn't experience since Shogun, when the mechanics of the game was completely new. I don't stand a chance when outnumbered 2:1, for instance, something that didn't happen in MTW2, where a nice charge in a weak spot could rout an entire army. It's a lot of fun.

Tactics - as I'm not very far on technloogy ladder, I usually go for a 80% infantry army, having a couple of cavalry units to kill routers or for desperate charges when everything else fails.

Deployment on defence - artilery on high ground, if possible entrenched. At least one infantry unit to guard it, the general there as well. If extra troops available, I may add one cav and an extra infantry unit - and this is one group.

The rest of the infantry is deployed using terrain and cover, if possible, ready to go for a pincer movement when the enemy gets closer.

Attack - everything is done to achieve flanking. Immediately after the infantry charges, I turn off artilery's fire-at-will option.

Different from MTW and all the other TW series, the AI is much more reactive to my movements. There's no way you could forget about some units on the field, the AI tries to achieve local superiority all the time (if having enough troops)

While on land battles I usually hope to win, the sea battles are still a mistery to me. I've lost basically every encounter, even when having superior numbers and/or superior firepower, and for now I consider just a pathetic role of raiding enemy trade routes with my navy :laugh4: Still studying Nelson's diary :wall:

One approach I've used a couple of times with success is to send calvary far out on one flank and ahead of the main line. As infantry lines get close but before they meet, race a unit or two of cavalry behind their line and ride parallel with his infantry line, but don't actually engage.

If you engage your calvary will most likely be slaughtered quickly but if you simply blaze by as fast as your cav will go, you can force the opponent to turn part of his line to face you to avoid an attack to the rear or force him to have a potential threat in his rear right before the two lines meet. The overall result is that the enemy infantry line will be fragmented by the time the firing begins.

I remember CA saying that you do the most damage the enemy in cross fire; how easy is it to acheive this?

at what distance does canister shot become effective?
As for strategy, remembering that terrain is very, very important. Also, ive found in siege battles that the enemy often leaves their generals cavalry in the centre square, so if you send in a 'commando' unit around the back and garrison a building in the square you can take him out very cheaply. A bit gamey, but hey.

Not really. Unsporting, but not exactly unheard of.

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Originally Posted by Subotan

I remember CA saying that you do the most damage the enemy in cross fire; how easy is it to acheive this?

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I've seen this happen. I'm not sure about the damage, but they do rout quickly. For instance, the AI prefers to march the bulk of its infantry shooters together, instead of a long line. When they stop and start firing at your line, simply close your flanks on him. Pretty effective usually.

Naval tactics are pretty straightforward as far as I've seen. Just form two lines and come at him from two sides, encircling his fleet and creating a deadly chainshot crossfire in the middle. Usually their ships are all demasted pretty quickly.

Can anyone explain how to use a double line formation effectivly?

I normaly use light infantry in the front line to let them fire a salvo or 2 at the enemy, when that is done i retreat them behind my second line of professional infantry.I dont know if this is a correct strategy, sometimes when the AI goes to melee this setup doesent work as i had intended.

Oh and if you place your canons on elevated terrain behind your lines then there is little risk of friendly fire.

keep them in line - light inf on flanks, use terrain for cover or flank protection. if you want to use 2 lines, then place second one at least 50m behind,so if your first line is broken, second line can shoot at the attacker (Brittish used this at Culloden)

Interestingly the trajectory for cannister doesn't seem to be entirely flat. I only ever tried firing it when my cannon in the rear were distinctly elevated, but it looked like there was plenty of clearance. Not sure I'd try it without the elevation though.

It's not entirely flat, no, but never let your cannons fire at will when the enemy is close. Takes a lot of your men, too. And sometimes they won't stop firing even if you tell them to, so just limber them.

Or, put your cannons in the gaps between your infantry, with infantry behind them.

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Originally Posted by Subotan

Or, put your cannons in the gaps between your infantry, with infantry behind them.

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They will sometimes fire at the flanks, killing many of your own men, you really do have to turn off fire at will once the enemy gets too close.

It may be a little cheesy, but I usually line up my infantry so that basically only the cannons' muzzles stick out. That way the line acts more or less like a ship's side. Unless there's higher ground, of course.

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Originally Posted by Mister V

I've noticed my casualties are still always very high (around one to three). 'That normal, or do I suck at 18th century warfare? By looking at unit stats, I would say it's because the units are all similar (too similar if you ask me... the grenadiers are supposed to be elite melee units, the way they were used, and here they're almost the same as the line infantry).

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I average around 1 to 5 on VH - better in the instances were I forget to switch back on the VH battle difficulty (note that the battle difficult seems to reset to normal when you start up the game again).

The only times when I tend to suffer more casaulties than that ratio is if the AI either has a significant edge in number of infantry. This tends to results in lengthy shootouts (because of enemy numbers, it is usually impossible to outflank for a while, and this means my center units will get shredded before I chew up his flanks) or the AI charges my infantry, also resulting in huge casaulties.

In practice battles, I try to position my light infantry at the start of the battle where they can place stakes around the vulnerable sides of my cannons, to ward off cavalry.

Simple, I know, but effective.

I agree with the balanced stack approach - I don't really consider my general a "unit" though. In an emergency sure but they seem extremely fragile. I had a general die during the rout pursuit of the enemy and I don't think he was very near any hostile soldiers at all (I assume he failed to vault a fence or something and broke his neck! Not Heroic at all really!).

I have my general, 3 batteries, 4 cavalry bn, 12 infantry bn in a typical stack.

Yeah, I don't like how stakes are in TW games. They function more like a land mine than a stake. If I'm on the left side and I tell my cav to move to the right side, they don't have enough sense to avoid the stakes and get themselves killed. They'd get stuck on a stake and die.

Re-positioning a cannon on the enemies flank once the battle lines have engaged can be devastating.

Managed to get 2 batteries round the flank of a Mysore army that massively outnumbered my Prussians, each shot was killing 40-50 soldiers, they broke after a few rounds.

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Originally Posted by andrewt

Yeah, I don't like how stakes are in TW games. They function more like a land mine than a stake. If I'm on the left side and I tell my cav to move to the right side, they don't have enough sense to avoid the stakes and get themselves killed. They'd get stuck on a stake and die.

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Speaking of landmines has anybody seen fougasse in use? I haven't yet, and I wonder how effective they are.