Questions on Sauromatae gameplay

Well, I have never really played a nomad faction before. I now started a sauromatae campaign, 1.2, RTW.exe, m/m and played maybe 10 turns yesterday. Looks fun so far, I might stick to this for a while.

I collected my troops into one army, defeated 2 smaller rebel stacks and took Tanais. Right now, I laid siege to Olbia and hope they will sally, as currently this uber-stack that you can put together with your starting army is a real overkill firepower-wise. Envelop, create crossfire killing zone and wait for enemy to finish dying. I intend to take the Crimea then, hopefully reducing my troops which I suspect I will be needing rather sooner than later against Hayasdan, once they have taken Kolchis(?). Currently I'm already 9K in debt, but I'm not too concerned about this. I hope the three greek settlements there will get me some money.

Anyway, I need some advice by you more experienced nomad players.

1. What about governments. It seems that I can build nomadism only in a couple of steppe regions. In many other regions I cannot build nomadism. There I have to build what? Pastoralism? Client Kingdom? I'm lost here.

2. Military. The main armies will most probably be horse archers of various quality and heaviness for most of the game. But what about local troops, especially in those greek areas on the Crimea? Do I need allied kingdom or pastoralism to access these? In the RV I saw the lovely bosphoran archers. What do I need to build, and where to get them?

3. Speaking of military: Do the Sauromatae get any reforms similar to Pahlava or Saka and if so, what new kinds of military do they get?

4. General strategy: Is the above outlined strategy a feasible one for early game? Should I aim to take out some neighbours early? Blitz Getai or Hai? Is the east baltic area worth the effort at all? Mid- to longterm I'm thinking of aiming for Greece, get rich and then go Hun on everybody else.

5. Language. I can't make out what kind of language the EB team used in the unit descriptions for Sauromatae. Any scientific insight into this subject would be very appreciated. Also, on the battlemap, there seems to be a semi-completed voicemod for them?

Thank you.

1. You can build nomadism in provinces with a nomadism or a mixed hidden resource, pastoralism in regions with mixed HR or without HR and Client Kingdom everywhere else. Nomadism has a weak economy, but lots of cheap HAs, pastoralism has more infantry units, less cheap HAs and a slightly better economy. CK is basically a Lvl. 4 gouverment.

2. You can't build CKs in the greek cities on the bosphorus and thus you can't recruit Bosp. Heavy Archers (not like you'd need them anyway),unless you leave the Greek lvl. 4 gov. in place. (Cheating, kind of)

3. No reforms AFAIK.

4. Do what you want. The Hai aren't really a problem, neither are the Getai.

5. No clue.

Thank you, Tolg.

Seems like Sauromatae are hardly played around here.

I made good progress having taken Olbia, and the two Crimean cities. I now have the option to invade the Getai who border me or go west/northwest. Going through the Caucasus is not an option for me. While I prolly could take out the Hai rather easily, it would put me in contact with AS, and while I'm still confident that I could take out their still early armies as well with my HA's, it would swallow my resources, methinks.

Anyway, I'm surprised how small an army you actually need to rule the battlefield. I currently have 3 FMs plus 6 of the original 9 HAs remaining (all silver chevroned by now).

Resistance is futile.:skull:

Although it does get kinda repetitive after a while, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by I of the Storm

2. Military. The main armies will most probably be horse archers of various quality and heaviness for most of the game. But what about local troops, especially in those greek areas on the Crimea? Do I need allied kingdom or pastoralism to access these? In the RV I saw the lovely bosphoran archers. What do I need to build, and where to get them?

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Like said you can't get them - but neither can anyone else as long you ocupy thoose areas.

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Originally Posted by I of the Storm

3. Speaking of military: Do the Sauromatae get any reforms similar to Pahlava or Saka and if so, what new kinds of military do they get?

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No the Sauromatea don't get any reforms. One thing you should know (just in case you haven't noticed) is that the Sauos can recruit all there elite troops (nobles above all since you can't build Nomadism everywhere) all over the map in every province:2thumbsup: (the Saka can do that also, Pahlav recrutiment is more limited). So actually all you need are some allied kingdoms on the right spot for some infantry, some pastorialism in distant lands for your noble horsemen and Nomadism were you think it usefull.

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Originally Posted by I of the Storm

4. General strategy: Is the above outlined strategy a feasible one for early game? Should I aim to take out some neighbours early? Blitz Getai or Hai? Is the east baltic area worth the effort at all? Mid- to longterm I'm thinking of aiming for Greece,

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Well I don't know - haven't played them too long yet. What I would suggest you to consider: if you wan't you could roleplay a more realstic "nomad economy" by using the add_money cheat so that your treasury doesn't go into the red - loans and pays for soldiers is not realistic for Nomads.

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Originally Posted by I of the Storm

get rich and then go Hun on everybody else.

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Hmmm... I like the idea. It should work - give 'em hell:skull:

At first you can't get many troops as a nomad but you don't really need too many.:yes:

Yes it can get repeative - tahts why I have many camapigns going at the same time...

All I did in my Sauromatae campaign was stuff all my generals in 1 army. (Lives on the Move trait wins.) With a few other low-quality horse-archers. After my generals got 3 golden chevrons. (Which is veeeerrry easy to get with Sauromatae General Bodyguard, they're immortal; even without chevrons.) I could take almost every fullstack town with autosolve. After that I didn't even need the low quality horse-archers anymore, since the Generals could charge even into a wall of pikes and only get 1 to 3 casualties.

Anyway, train your generals tbh. Iirc, they have 43-44 defense with 3 golden chevrons. And about 14 attack? Not much that can stop nor destroy that.

Good luck with the campaign. I enjoyed the Sauromatae a whole lot! Hope you do too! ^_^



- Cent

Thank you all.
The Sauro FMs are tanks indeed. They remind me of the Jedi Kats of old MTW.
Well, I hope to be able to play a bit this week. Maybe I give an update...

Thanks again!

So if I am playing Sauromatea and i reach south greece i cant train local troops?

Yes, you can. You can even train Classical Holplites in Greece.

The Sauromatae speak Ossetian, a language spoken in the region of Georgia that was recently fought over by Russia and Georgia. Ossetian is AFAIK the last of the Scytho-Sarmatian languages, descended from the Alan tongue, of which few samples survive. Scythian also has few surviving examples, though there have been a couple inscriptions found.

AtB Spoiler: We'll probably feature some reconstructed Scythian, courtsey of moi.

Skuda Iskuta (Scythian Archers)
Sauromata Iskuta (Sarmatian Archers)
Skuda Tabarata (Scythian Axemen)
(Sarmatian Spearmen)
Sauromata Aspa (Sarmatian Horse Archers)
Skuda Aspa (Scythian Horse Archers)
Skuda Aspabarata (Scythian Riders)
Aursa Aspabarata (Aorsi Riders)
Daha Aspabarata (Dahae Riders)
Sauromata Aspabarata (Sarmatian Lancers) - Reskinned Roxolani riders, leather instead of scale.
Rauxalanna Aspabarata (Roxolani Lancers)
Kshaya Aspa (Sarmatian Bodyguard)

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Originally Posted by gamegeek2

The Sauromatae speak Ossetian, a language spoken in the region of Georgia that was recently fought over by Russia and Georgia. Ossetian is AFAIK the last of the Scytho-Sarmatian languages, descended from the Alan tongue, of which few samples survive. Scythian also has few surviving examples, though there have been a couple inscriptions found.
...

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Thanks a lot.

I was able to play some more turns. It's actually not really fun tbh. The battles are quite repetitive after a while. The distances are huge and from all the people that are bordering me right now it was the Saka who decided that it would be a good idea to go to war against me. Gah! Just when I thought I was ready to start trampling the Getai I have to dedicate a third of my army to the east. Double Gah!
I'm not sure whether I will continue this campaign, especially when my gaming time is so limited.

But many thanks to everybody who contributed here and answered my questions!! :bow:

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Originally Posted by I of the Storm

I was able to play some more turns. It's actually not really fun tbh. The battles are quite repetitive after a while. The distances are huge and from all the people that are bordering me right now it was the Saka who decided that it would be a good idea to go to war against me. Gah! Just when I thought I was ready to start trampling the Getai I have to dedicate a third of my army to the east. Double Gah!
I'm not sure whether I will continue this campaign, especially when my gaming time is so limited.

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Actually, I've noticed that the Saka always attack you as soon as they share a border with you. OTOH, if you play Saka, the Sauromatae will leave you alone for quite a long time. That's just weird.

My first game as the Sauro, I took Tanais, then bypassed the Crimea and kept pushing west, focussing on settlements with only 6-8 defenders.

Even then, with an army of four FMs and four HAs, I do my fighting by engaging an enemy, shooting all my arrows at them, running away, and repeating. Doing this, I hardly ever suffer any casualties, which was good as I began pushing into Poland just as my debt disappeared. I kept setting my captured Polish cities to Military Allies, though, so a bunch defected to the Sweboz, and then from then on, my game would always CTD.

So, I started a new game, and saw on the blitz thread they recommend taking Gava-Yugra first and annexing all the provinces around there before pushing East.

So, I started a new game and am trying that, but by the time I took the city, I was almost 20K in debt. Now I'm hoping to roll through most of the Northern Provinces before I start brushing up against the Saka or Pahlava...

I never went more than 10K in debt with the Sauromatae.

Perhaps I should add some detailed notes to my 'Guide to EB Blitzing' for them. You have to blitz very quickly to avoid getting very heavily in debt, it means attacking Eleutheroi cities with smaller armies than those of the enemy. Small enough to for you to put the city under seige, and the AI sallys out to attack you immediately when you end the turn. This helps a lot, because it's easier to defend with horse archers than it is to attack with them, and with a AI sally you are fighting a defensive battle which also gets you the city when you've won.

Historically Sarmatians fought with horse archers, but having a few heavy lancers. Later they changed to heavy cavalry only (afaik). If I am right, why don't they get the reforms to get something like the super-mega-heavy-killer armoured knights of the Parthian (20 of armor... o.O)??

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Originally Posted by xzGAB

Historically Sarmatians fought with horse archers, but having a few heavy lancers. Later they changed to heavy cavalry only (afaik). If I am right, why don't they get the reforms to get something like the super-mega-heavy-killer armoured knights of the Parthian (20 of armor... o.O)??

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The Sauromatae bodyguard unit has 22 armour (equal to Hellenic Cataphracts, plus better skill and morale) and is superior to most cavalry in the game. In EB, they appear more often than historically (well, in the early campaign years at least) . This kinda makes up for the lack of reform units.


The things about Sauromatae gameplay I really would like to see changed in EB II (and in AtB as well, if possible) are:

- The recruitment of auxiliaries. Right now it is impossible to recruit Greek, Germanic, or Thraikian units in the Bosphoran region without resorting to exploits.
- The availability of small ports. Right now only the Sauromatae AI can build proper ports (up to level 3, the second biggest kind), whereas the player can't. This is a discrepancy which can't be explaind from the position of historical accuracy.

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Originally Posted by gamegeek2

The Sauromatae speak Ossetian, a language spoken in the region of Georgia that was recently fought over by Russia and Georgia. Ossetian is AFAIK the last of the Scytho-Sarmatian languages, descended from the Alan tongue, of which few samples survive.

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That is correct, Ossetian is the last living example of Scytho-Sarmatian languages.

Would it be an adviseable strategy to wipe out the Saka early on?

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The Sauromatae bodyguard unit has 22 armour (equal to Hellenic Cataphracts, plus better skill and morale) and is superior to most cavalry in the game. In EB, they appear more often than historically (well, in the early campaign years at least) . This kinda makes up for the lack of reform units.

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I was talking about the Noble Horse Archers, who have less armor (only 12), what makes of them not too super-mega-heavy-killer armoured =/
I was hoping to get some heavier Noble Horse Archers after the reforms

Yeah well, you don't. But your FMs are really really cool, especially when (not if ^^) they have gold-chevrons.

BTW:
How is it possible to conquer the world when all my client rulers get the Impostor trait right imidiately and always? Seems a little stupid, that all my clients are inept drunkards :/



edit: but IF you manage to get enough money to recruit not-0-upkeep-units, I suggest the Roxolani Nobles, the are heavier than the sarmatians.

The nomadic factions, in general, I enjoy for the fact they can recruit their noble cavalry ALL OVER the campaign map. The upkeep is sort of unfounded, though, since most nomadic armies could be self-sustaining and the promise of loot and booty in raids generally kept the troops happy enough. I probably would make the upkeep close to nothing, but keep the AOR very limited and make the player recruit regionals as they expand.

@Brennus

As soon as you share borders with Saka, prepare for a fight of nomadic proportions! :juggle2: Sorry for that bad joke, but the Saka always seem to betray you when you expand towards them.

On the subject of cheating when playing the Suromatae....

Right now I am roughly 45,000 mnai in debt. What do people think about using the add_money cheat for nomad factions? I am only planning to use it to keep from going bankrupt. Now when I play as the Casse, Aedui, Averni or any other settled faction that goes bankrupt I slog it out and work my way out of the red but for a nomad faction to go into debt.... it just seems improbable, I owe you 45,000 sheep/horses?.

Is it wrong for me to use the add_money cheat? Please set my mind at ease before I use it.

You're definitely doing it wrong.

Please advise then.

What I found worked was just have one army and keep attacking places.

I usually take Dayhu Yugra, Dayhu Thissakata, Maeotis, Aghvan, Taurike Chersonesos, Bosporion Tyrranesis and Scythia as quickly as I can.

By this time you're making plenty of money.

Also, always starve them out, never try and storm their city.

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Originally Posted by Iain.

Also, always starve them out, never try and storm their city.

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You can, but it requires a lot of micro and your FMs will have to endure quite a bit of punishment, as they are your only "town square assault" units in early game - the light HAs will get butchered by any kind of infantry (moreso as cavalry is already bugged in cities).

Well, I actually played a Sauro campaign to the end. Money is tight at the beginning but its no different to any other uncivilized faction really. Expand to 6 territories and then disband all your expensive troops. Sarmatian archers and family members are all you need for garrisons. Keep one half stack of horse archers around ready for conquest and defence though. I didnt go down the FM uber-stack route as it seems cheesy, the sarmatian horse archers are enough most of the time. Later the Nobles and the roxolanni riders are great to add more oomph, but the horse-archers should always remain the centre of your army. A couple of settlements to the north and east can produce mine. Get them and build them - after that you can start looking at recruiing more expensive units. The second era of trouble arrives when teh Saka attack. No walls in nomadic areas makes defending settlements tough but fun. And the distances you must travel compound the problem. But it is a winnable war. Just use targeted shooting and you can beat the Saka full stacks. Its not always easy as you will almost always have an inferior quality army. But be cautios and engage on your own terms and it should work out ok. One trick I learnt is never to use infantry except when defending settlements. A fast offensive army is an effective offensive army.

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Originally Posted by Brennus

Please advise then.

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I can only think that you have too many soldiers. Disband a lot of them and wait till your economy is ok before pushing forward again. The nobles especially are very expensive luxury troops and should never be purchased until you can afford to maintain them.

Also, infrastructure is more important to your long term success than troops.

I'm playing a Sauro campaign where I try to RP being Attila (I know I'm a little early, but nevermind that). I just kept going southwest, moving capitol after every few conquests to keep up and blitzed the Getai. Wasnt as hard as I thought (though the battles went from impossibly easy to quite annoying when there suddenly was deep forest all around. had a nice fight on the bridge near Kallatis, tho - 2000 dead Getai and no real losses of mine, I know its kinda unfair, but its just so hilarious). I dont find money to be a problem, as long as you dont live beyond your means. I went into debt only once and that was making a two-pronged strike into Getai territory (one from the north and one from the east - one small FM army to take their cities, while a huge no-FM HA stack kept their main armies occupied, attacking and leaving hundreds dead by arrow each time and retreating itself when the arrows had run out. but having two armies put me into debt - until the HA stack was ripped apart in a dreadful battle outside of Buridava or whatsitsname - that solved my economy ;D).
Currently, I have plans to push my borders even more south. The Maks have Serdike, but Epeiros (my allies) have their capitol, so Serdike is isolated. Tylis is Eleutheroi, so I could take both and Kallatis and Naisos would no longer be border towns. Also i'm vary of the Sweboz - I dont want more wars without elite troops, cos HA armies are too complicated in a forest setting and it gets annoying. On the other hand, I'm RP'ing Dacia as my centre of operations, so Greece and Germany are the two areas I can expand into - or I could be ecompletely weirdo and take Byzantion and then attack Pontos. But that would be a lot of fighting without lessening the width of my main borders and I dont have the forces for that.

I have a question regarding Allied Client States; I read that they require indegenous settlements - what does that mean?
I didn't had the option to build one in most provinces I conquered so far - I usually destroy all non-Sauromatae buildings once I conquer a new province, might that be an issue (as it may eradicate the ' indegenous' settlement) ?

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Originally Posted by Liberator

I have a question regarding Allied Client States; I read that they require indegenous settlements - what does that mean?
I didn't had the option to build one in most provinces I conquered so far - I usually destroy all non-Sauromatae buildings once I conquer a new province, might that be an issue (as it may eradicate the ' indegenous' settlement) ?

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"Indigenous Settlements" are the same thing as "Military Occupation" for other factions. Which means you can and should build them always and everywhere (+5% law bonus for 200 mnai is spectacularly efficient and you'll need it anyway). They even come with a prettier symbol than the "Military Occupation" of other factions. You'll need to destroy all previous foreign government structures though (Types I-IV, Nomadism, Pastoralism or whatever else).


By the way, technically speaking there is also Yaghnobi as a second survivor of NE Iranian languages. Another one spoken in Hungary died out a few centuries ago, which is a real shame.

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Originally Posted by athanaric

"Indigenous Settlements" are the same thing as "Military Occupation" for other factions. Which means you can and should build them always and everywhere (+5% law bonus for 200 mnai is spectacularly efficient and you'll need it anyway). They even come with a prettier symbol than the "Military Occupation" of other factions. You'll need to destroy all previous foreign government structures though (Types I-IV, Nomadism, Pastoralism or whatever else).

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Well, I have figured that out so far while conquering the Caucasus.
But still - I found no way to build a client state in the two Crimean provinces, for instance. Only normadism and pastoralism available there for me :inquisitive: while the recruitment viewer tells me that I could recruit Greek Classical Hoplites there, for instance.

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Originally Posted by Liberator

Well, I have figured that out so far while conquering the Caucasus.
But still - I found no way to build a client state in the two Crimean provinces, for instance. Only normadism and pastoralism available there for me :inquisitive: while the recruitment viewer tells me that I could recruit Greek Classical Hoplites there, for instance.

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Yeah that is an unfortunate glitch. I usually resort to exploits in order to be able to actually build ports and native barracks along the Black Sea cost (leaving enemy government structures intact and so on). Hopefully this will change in EB II - for instance, it could be argued that ports are "native structures" like "native settlements" whose construction is actually encouraged by nomadic tribes, because they make for good commerce.

speaking of exploits, ive noticed that the enemy gov building works sometimes and i can build my highest lvl happiness structures in italy using Seleucid. is there any downside to doing this??

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Originally Posted by seleucid empire

speaking of exploits, ive noticed that the enemy gov building works sometimes and i can build my highest lvl happiness structures in italy using Seleucid. is there any downside to doing this??

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you may receive a small culture penalty, as the government building is foreign by its nature.
but thats neglectable; if the province is far from your home provinces, this may be the only way to build all buildings (and get all benefits they offer) of your faction.
As all government buildings, a enemy gov building has an impact on the recruitment buildings you can constuct.