Economic Domination

Some have suggested that it is possible to get rich on trade. It wasn't clear at first just how rich you could get.

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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Behold the fruition of my masterplan.

I rushed the pirates and the cherokee and bought New France for the astronomical sum of 3 Caribbean islands, Ceylon (traded for Moose Factory) and 28000, thus absorbing 13 colonies on turn 11.

I also rushed farming techs and kept taxes low to grow my towns so I could school spam. I am already on the penultimate tier of all techs and almost finished all enlightenment techs.

All towns have already spawned at this point so I have started taxing the lower classes to earn more money. Current income growth is estimated at 1000 a turn (from the long term trade partner boost and town wealth growth)

I have constructed ALL upgrades and am running out of techs to research, leading to the demolition of a number of universities :sweatdrop:

My current plan is use my stupendous wealth to buy out the AI. I recently purchased Ceylon from the frenchies for a cool 125000. I also plan to make war in a small way so as not to annoy all my trade partners.

Isn't it spectacular?

:jawdrop: Oh my god how much money!!

Very nice... I'm struggling to get a quarter of that nice one :applause:

tch...as the maratha i have about 100k income, 80k profit (give or take a bit)
I am trading with nearly all the major european powers, i control all of india and i have a heck of a lot of workshops.
So much cash...*drools*

As GB I make around 50K per turn (it's 1765) but I still want more...more... MORE! :laugh4:

Lessons:
Trade rules. War with any faction that gets naval access will block trade routes. Bad move.
Long trade partners have to be kept happy, never start a war with them.
Wars are costly. Better buy provinces from friends than get them by force from enemies.
South America provinces have nice gold mines. Must.Have.Gold.
Keep armies low, army upkeep is the biggest burden on your budget.
Check ministers often, fire bad managers.
Research production techs and social techs. If you don't have to fight with guns, win with money.

Bought Egypt from Ottomans for 125K + Trinidad Tobago. The Turks absolutely love me now :laugh4:
I just bought Bengal (GB province mission) from Maratha for a whopping 200K + Tripolitania.

I'm at 300K right now and plan to buy everything left to win the game (New France, Hindustan and another Indian province).
Or maybe I'll kick some French ass just for fun, after all.

Next campaign I plan to go over 1 Mil. I'm Uncle Scrooge Total War :eyebrows:

How can you have so many trade partners?

Whenever I attempt to trade I get the message "The other country's ports are full - you can't trade".

How do I get around that?

Simple: Build more trade ports/upgrade existing ones. Torch fishing ports in provinces that can't develop any more towns.

Edit: Didn't read your post properly, sorry. If their ports are full, there's nothing you can do exept wait until they upgrade them/ build more. Checking the diplomacy screen regularly helps, to prevent AI factions from beating you to trade agreements.

On the matter of buying provinces for > 100k:
I found that this can lead to great advantages for the selling AI faction versus their AI adversaries. I bought upper Canada as Sweden from the French for ~120.000 and a few turns later they dominated the seas around Europe, completely sealing of the British Isles. Before the Brits hat complete Naval domination...

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On the matter of buying provinces for > 100k:
I found that this can lead to great advantages for the selling AI faction versus their AI adversaries. I bought upper Canada as Sweden from the French for ~120.000 and a few turns later they dominated the seas around Europe, completely sealing of the British Isles. Before the Brits hat complete Naval domination...

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This is quite a big concern for me. I am already starting to see exponential growth in french forces. They have just destroyed Savoy. They don't seem to be selling the provinces I want to buy though :furious3:

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tch...as the maratha i have about 100k income, 80k profit (give or take a bit)
I am trading with nearly all the major european powers, i control all of india and i have a heck of a lot of workshops.
So much cash...*drools*

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Ah but as the maratha, you can go on a conquest spree and even on VH, the territorial expansion penalty won't hit outside your home theatre. That means that your European friends are still willing to trade with you. A European country that wants to have friends needs to be a lot more restrained.

Hmm... maybe I should have picked maratha instead. More action :laugh4: I picked GB for my experiment because I thought could get the biggest territorial gains for the least amount of conquering. That was before I found that territorial expansion penalty was confined to the home theatre.

I wonder if indian provinces start out a lot richer than the horribly undeveloped american ones. Did you know that the 13 colonies start off with ZERO towns?

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Originally Posted by Ishmael

tch...as the maratha i have about 100k income, 80k profit (give or take a bit)
I am trading with nearly all the major european powers, i control all of india and i have a heck of a lot of workshops.
So much cash...*drools*

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I am in war with maratha and gain 20k every round just by raiding their trade routes to europe :bling:
if I would trade with them, I would get only 7k and they 11k

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Originally Posted by Jong

This is quite a big concern for me. I am already starting to see exponential growth in french forces. They have just destroyed Savoy. They don't seem to be selling the provinces I want to buy though :furious3:

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Nothing one can do afterwards. I assume the AI love to blow all its money on unit queues.:inquisitive:

That's milk money man as the United Provinces i have 183000.Can be dangerous though the french blockaded my port 2 turns if i had not been cautious and had spent my 200000 reserve i would have gone bankrupt in one turn.

As GB I have all of India and North America in 1752. I have a profit of 100,000 per turn. I could have more but I have trained some exotic armies and fleets just for the fun.

In my UP game (almost 1740), I now make roughly 60k a turn but have only 100k in the bank. I'm addicted to building improvements everywhere. I have roughly 26 provinces, which built around 20+ global trading ports between them.

I'm now building fleets since I barely have any. Building quite a few third rates. Second rates look crappy so I'm waiting for my upgrades to finish so I can build first rates.

hmm wish i could see the pics (damn company i work for) bu from what you have typed i am impressed

I'm playing as GB and its around 1860. I control all of NA and India while managing not to go any further than nose thumbing at any other Euro powers. Taxes are set at the lowest level in all theatres and I have around 20 or so full stacks sitting around waiting for someone to do something stupid. Despite the 50k upkeep for the military, I'm bringing in 75-80k per turn and have no navy to speak of. Even territories like Cherokee and Kaintuck are fully upgraded and bringing in 13k+ per turn. The cash from the Indian provinces is just insane. Since I have over 2 million in the bank, I'm going to give a bunch of money, some techs, and a couple of provinces to my protectorate, the Knights if St. John, and see if I can coax them to evolve into a military/economic powerhouse.

Mexico's my highest income province right now. They're pulling in roughly 15k a turn and rising. I just got the last upgrade for mines and am upgrading everywhere.

My first time I played as the Maratha nation I was into the millions of $ cause I controled almost all the trade theaters and was dominating every contenent by a lot. I now am trying the Russians out.

I hope you enjoy your ridiculously long trade routes that get pirated by absolutely everyone.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

I hope you enjoy your ridiculously long trade routes that get pirated by absolutely everyone.

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On the contrary, trade routes in ETW are almost totally fire and forget. I think I've had to run various pirates or belligerent fleets out of the African theatres ... three times at most in a game.

While I like the trade element to the game, the amount of money you can bring in so easily is simply too much. I've had 100k in trade in early games with virtually no maintenance overhead or risk in getting or losing it.

That's always been the problem with CA's games. There's really steep diminishing returns when it comes to economic buildings. The early buildings are just way better than the later ones. The "upgrades" are more expensive yet add less.

I've had some money problems early in the game. Mostly it's the Spanish and Pirates who I'm at war with. The other is that UP starts trading with both Maratha and Mughal and they keep blocking each other's port.

How do you guys rush the trade lanes fast enough to build up such astronomical incomes? As France, i can usually secure 4/5s of brazil, 3/5s of ivory coast, 2 in madagascar, and 1 in the west indies, without going to war and only fighting pirates. I spammed Indiamen like crazy was rushing my fleets out as quickly as possible but that was all i could manage before GB, UP, OE, Mara, and Per parked on teh rest. I make more than enough money anyway, but i'm just shocked at how much some of you folks can generate so early in the game, as well as teching up so damn quickly. I generally just make 4 schools, just to keep things simple, how many do you eco whores have, 10+?

I think GB has an advantage early on. As UP, I only had 1 college until 25-30 turns into the game. I had 4 trading ports to start with however, as well as 3 indiamen in the East Indies already. You can claim everything in the East Indies as UP except the one near the pirates in the first turn. Just park your sloop on the last one you need.

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Originally Posted by Ordani

On the contrary, trade routes in ETW are almost totally fire and forget. I think I've had to run various pirates or belligerent fleets out of the African theatres ... three times at most in a game.

While I like the trade element to the game, the amount of money you can bring in so easily is simply too much. I've had 100k in trade in early games with virtually no maintenance overhead or risk in getting or losing it.

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I was mainly refering to your Mediterranian one after you take the Crimea. I've seen people fight over who gets to pirate it. Its rather amusing.

In my GB campaign I'm getting about 20k per turn in trade just with the Ottoman Empire, and another 17k or so just from France. Long term trade really adds up.

In my UP campaign I get 80k per turn in trade, which is promptly spent on military upkeep. My 120k per turn profits are all from taxes. 1774 and I have almost 5 million in the bank :)

Wow you all seem to earn a lot more than me :laugh4:

How do you all stop the European powers from disliking you when you go on mad conquest sprees? Or do they hate you but still trade anyway? The state gift bonus is only +100 after all.

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How do you guys rush the trade lanes fast enough to build up such astronomical incomes? As France, i can usually secure 4/5s of brazil, 3/5s of ivory coast, 2 in madagascar, and 1 in the west indies, without going to war and only fighting pirates. I spammed Indiamen like crazy was rushing my fleets out as quickly as possible but that was all i could manage before GB, UP, OE, Mara, and Per parked on teh rest. I make more than enough money anyway, but i'm just shocked at how much some of you folks can generate so early in the game, as well as teching up so damn quickly. I generally just make 4 schools, just to keep things simple, how many do you eco whores have, 10+?

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I think you need to put multiple trade ships per slot. I've got about 5 each. They give diminishing returns when you have more than 2 each though.

I did have about 10 universities, but then I ran out of techs to research :laugh4:

You gift them money or straight up buy territory from then :)

Usually you have to give them at least 10,000, which is fine china if i remember correctly, to get them from hostile to very friendly. If you cant afford that all at once (one turn) give them 5,000 twice (2 turns) or 2,500 four times over four turns. You get the picture I'm sure. Sometimes I find invading and conquering the nation is easier and more satisfying than buying their friendship. :yes:

It looks to me as if a "State Gift" gives a +100 to relation status no matter if you give them the 2500 sovereign china or the 10000 sovereign jewelry gift. Also, the diplomacy modifier degrades over time, and giving another state gift just brings it back up to the +100 level rather than giving an additional bonus.

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Originally Posted by andrewt

I think GB has an advantage early on.

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No kidding. Their home region is on an unified island un-invadable by the AI, they get a Dockyard, and they're in good position to conquer the Pirates and squat on the Ivory Coast. They have two strong allies/trading partners available and aren't overextended.

I just played as the Ottomans and it's a world of difference in terms of early game troubles. By turn 5 four factions declared war on me (on top of Russia) and my trade routes were blockaded left and right. The Ottoman early game units are mostly rubbish and the tax income isn't great. The starting leader is horrid. There are lots of land invasion routes to defend and massive amounts of land area to cover. On the plus side, you get hand mortars later on which are pretty awesome. Overall it's a faction for land warriors who want a challenge and not bean counters with fancy ships.

Hand Mortars... I feel like wanting to play them now.

I am only trading with I think 3 nations and am at war with almost everyone. I am an economic whore and a conquest whore. I will soon get all of Europe muhahahaha. I am only Allied with Russia as Maratha and maybe I will get military access so I can march an army up to Moscow and then take it lol

I am playing the Dutch and managed to claim all trading spots but two within na couple of turns. I like to have some money :laugh4:

What sort of range do you generally have to pay to buy regions? Im building a South/Central American and Carribean empire as marathas (up to 110k a turn! yay!), but my offers to buy are nearly always rejected when i offer 150-250k. Any advice?
On another (slightly related) note, does the state gift bonus show up in the 'factors affecting relationship' tab thingy? State gifts affect other factions relationship with me, but the bonus doesn't actually show up.

The AI doesn't like selling regions for money alone. They would happily trade different regions, though.

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Originally Posted by Ishmael

What sort of range do you generally have to pay to buy regions? Im building a South/Central American and Carribean empire as marathas (up to 110k a turn! yay!), but my offers to buy are nearly always rejected when i offer 150-250k. Any advice?
On another (slightly related) note, does the state gift bonus show up in the 'factors affecting relationship' tab thingy? State gifts affect other factions relationship with me, but the bonus doesn't actually show up.

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As the UP I bought Flanders for 150,000. Just some cash that I had over and was doing nothing.

That it?

I had hundreds of thousands on my GB campaign, it's the easiest faction of all time in any TW game, and i was playing on VH/H. The AI is extremely reluctant to go to war with GB, except for France, Spain and the Huron, it seems.

Just tech up so you can build sugar/coffee/tea/spice warehouses, the largest farms and mines and weavers and smithies, and conquer the small islands off the east coast of America. You don't even need to conquer anything on mainland America or absorb the colonies, you just need to keep Ruperts Land for the two fur traders and the farm.

Once you have the whole of Britain, Ruperts Land and all the small islands off the east coast of America with every farm and plantation upgraded to max, you will rake in money so fast you literally won't know what to do with it.

You don't even need to send trade fleets to the trade theatres. I got to around 1740, 2 navies both with 10 3rd rates and various smaller supporting ships, and 3 full stack land armies, and was still pulling 40k a turn.

I had to quit playing. There was no way i could be challenged anymore. My prestige was at 740, the next highest was less than 300.

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Originally Posted by andrewt

That's always been the problem with CA's games. There's really steep diminishing returns when it comes to economic buildings. The early buildings are just way better than the later ones. The "upgrades" are more expensive yet add less.

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This is most likely intentional: otherwise, you'd have the problem that the leading faction's lead would snowball exponentially and they'd be untouchable -- unless every other faction allied together against them and coordinated to take them down. Not likely, with this AI.