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Posted today
We'll waitQuote:
Hi guys,
We are currently working on our next Empire: Total War update. We have introduced a tougher test cycle to ensure the release goes as smoothly as possible and are also trying to get a few more fixes into it.
Thanks for your patience and I will update you early next week on its progress.
Have a great weekend,
Mark O'Connell
(aka SenseiTW)
aye- if we need to wait, so be it.
next week it is then
It worries me a bit that with steam one can't revert to a pre-patch version in case one prefers to.
Things on Steam update far too often for that. Especially valve's own games (most of which have online capablities), which would be completely out of sync with things that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadKow
Thanks for your patience and I will update you early next week on its progress.
Have a great weekend,
Mark O'Connell
(aka SenseiTW)
As I understand, it's not a patch release promise for next week, it's only a "more news about a future release sometime next week".
I hope they fix the fleet-click-CTD.
I'm not the only one getting that then eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad Tzepes
When you right-click to attack an enemy ship in battle?
That must be a sometimes thing or cretin systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayve
Thank goodness I have not had that one.
All my problems are land battles that won’t finish loading!
Great stuff, even longer before I can play a game that actually worked before the last patch. What are they doing? Is this patch going to un-install Windows or something? This is just ridiculous now.
Have some perspective, friend. We have an immense, ambitious and complex game being released on the most varied platform possible (oh, the Audigy driver conflicts with the Nvidia 280 driver when it's on 64-bit Vista, but only on Abit motherboards—who knew?). We have a team that has already released two patches and informed us that they plan to release another soon. They're swatting bugs as fast as they can.Quote:
Originally Posted by McLeod03
I wish every game got this kind of support. Go play through the final patched version of KOTOR Sith Lords and then tell me how this is "ridiculous."
This level of support is to be expected considering the state of the game upon release, how CA positions themselves as a top tier development studio, and their own marketing claims about the game before release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
And while I agree with you regarding the compatibility issues, the reality is that many of the gameplay issues, such as naval transport, and the overall passivity of the AI on the campaign map in some situations, pathfinding, balance issues regarding sieges, etc, should've been caught pre-release. I understand compatibility issues may crop up post-release due to the myriad amount of hardware configurations that exist amongst their customer base, but there is no excuse for some of the gameplay issues that, while minor, have great gameplay implications and make the game a shell of what was expected by many, almost to the point of it being unplayable.
At least the modders are making progress now.
I'm sorry, Dogfish, but I see the glass half-full, not half-empty. Would you rather not have this game than have it and know they're working on the issues?
Many of the people now screaming murder over the state of the game are the same people who would throw tantrums if it were delayed. Personally, I'd rather have the game at the time promised and know that the team will fix it than wait six months for more QA (which might not catch a lot of issues anyway).
CA could very easily have produced a game with minimal engine changes from Rome/M2, and their sales would have been fine. They could have skipped naval combat, stuck with a pre-gunpowder era, and generally lobbed the ball easy-style.
Instead they busted their mouse-fingers creating the best darn 18th-century simulator I have ever seen.
Why are you taking the continuous support as some sort of "gimme" that doesn't even count? What planet are you from? How many fantastic games have slipped out of updates because publishers didn't feel like funding the process? How many developers have walked away whistling while there were still game-breaking bugs in their product?
Let's have a little bit of perspective, and a little bit of gratitude.
Well, I can understand the feeling for the people who lost playability or can't run the game despite being over spec but I can't really understand why so many people who can get some enjoyment out of the game right now seem to be hating on CA. They tried to release it as bug free as possible and even delayed the release for a month or so. They've made a commitment to get this game patched and playable and as bug free as possible. They've even recognized the mistakes of the M2TW patching.
This kind of support is what they SHOULD be doing and something a lot of don't do anymore because of the view that games are disposable. So I for one give them my gratitude because I've seen promising video games go down the crapper because EA or someone decided that the two patches and $50 sequel that fixes some bugs and is full of completely new ones is the best way to deal with the fanbase.
Yes. I've stated several times that the game was not ready to be released. I think they should've delayed it a little while longer, possibly with a closed beta. I would rather of waited; first impressions are everything. I know they'd be working on issues right now regardless of it's release status, pending studio closure or some other catastrophe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
That's personal preference, really, and some forum peeps will always complain regardless of the direction chosen, because that's the nature of these crazy intarwebz, but premature releases hurt much more in the long term than delayed releases. The flipside to that is you can use the sales from a premature release to fund patch development.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
Look at Blizzard's approach to games. People might get mad that Blizzard delays releases, or even does cancellations, but then they know every game is going to be very well done, and their reputation shows it. So does their balance sheet. Since you seem to like strawman arguments, how's this one: would you rather become known as a developer who releases buggy software on time, or one that releases flawless software when it's ready?
My guess is that Sega put some pressure on CA to hold this release date. They've recently announced studio closures and downsizing, and might of told CA they had to release now or it would harm their business relationship.
Yes, they could've done any of that. They also could've released it supporting only 640x480 resolution and 8-bit audio. Or just rebranded Ancient Art of War, with Ancient Art of War at Sea included as a pre-order special. That they strive to make amazing games is why I support them, and why many hold them up to be one of the premier development studios. That I hold them in such high regard is also why I am so critical of them now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
In my opinion, if they would've delayed it for another month or three, it could've been one of the best games ever. It still may be 6 months down the road after all the patches are in, the foundation is there, it just isn't finished. By the end of the year I'm sure it will be my favorite game, if nothing else thanks to the modding community, and CA's support of that community.
As it stands now, yes, it's the best darn 18th century simulator I've played. It's also the only one.
I have perspective, gratitude must be earned, per release. It's a business transaction, I give them money, they give me game. It's worked that way for me and CA since Shogun. So far this time, I've given them $70 for a game I stopped playing a couple of weeks after release due to bugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
The attitude that I need to deify or pay respects to them above and beyond me giving them money is something that really irks me. I don't worship them, nor am I a fanboy, nor do I like feeling like I have to add a caveat of how I do really like this game and appreciate the work CA has put into it before I point out it's obvious gameplay flaws that should've been caught in beta if not alpha.
Why do I take it as a "gimme"? Because I'm a 30 year old that's been in software development for over 10 years. Four of those were spent at a game development studio and publisher. I've worked on crappy games like Drakken Zor (Which, thank $deity, we convinced the suits to not release) and Looney Tunes bargain bin titles to good ones like Rainbow Six. Most of that was doing QA, and working with outside development teams to prioritize and resolve what the testers found. Patching and post-release support is part of the development process on the PC platform. Sometimes the developer doesn't get a choice to do so, because they may be reliant upon a publisher unwilling to pay for patch development, but PC developers who release buggy AAA titles without post-release support, whether or not it's their fault or their publisher's, don't usually stay in a position to release AAA titles for too long.
In that regard it is in their best interests to continue to provide support, both from a community relations and from a business perspective. Yes, sometimes publishers or developers walk away, usually when it doesn't make financial sense due to it being a niche title, or resources are being pulled to other titles, or if the publisher is a bad one that refuses to pay the developer to make patches, but that shouldn't be the case here. ETW is their marquee "revolutionary" title, and it is part of an established franchise. A franchise that has the potential to continue being a gold mine, so long as the reputation of that franchise continues to hold value. So yes, to me it is a "gimme" that they provide the support that they are, considering the current state of the game and it's potential effect on the value of their franchise.
Also, you'll find that my home planet listed in my location tag on the left side of your browser window. You needn't of asked. :beam:
I doubt they played the campaign through. Agreed. The game feels and plays like an unfinished product. it's a beta and we are its testers. It was a huge let down for me. I haven't touched the game in a while and won't touch it again until they patch it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogfish
I'm sorry lemur but your argument doesn't stack up against beesting's and dogfish's. I preordered the special edition, was incredibly looking forward to it, and understood that they needed an extra month so they could put in the multiplayer campaign mode. This however seems to have evaporated and they are now in damage control urgently needing to fix bugs that I honestly believe don't see how they could have missed.
I joined the Total War Franchise with medieval 2 and I thought that was pretty awesome and I thought dang it, I'll go ahead and get Empire, cause that sounds too awesome to believe. I got it and at first it was awesome, I was having alot of fun, but then 20 turns down the track, the cracks started to appear. the slightly random crash in a battle after I'd fought it, the crash after winning a battle and clicking the victory button, these things could be forgiven. another 80 turns down the track these bugs didn't stop but I persevered, and now it has gotten to the point where if I click on one of my fleets the game will freeze for 2 minutes, then selecting ships in the fleet will take 2 minutes, moving it about is okay but if I end the turn I ahve to go through that mess all over again, and loading armies on ships and through docks, I just can't play the game anymore. My main most important army is now stuck on a small carribean island because each time I click on the shipyard, the game crashes to the desktop. I don't expect a perfect game, but I expect that CA had testers that at least played through a whole long campaign and would have found these bugs, because these are not simple annoying bugs where an animation isn't working properly, I can't play the game I paid money for anymore. and while I don't feel like taking the game back and getting my money back because I know they are at least going to fix this eventually, It just shouldn't have been released in this manner.
Now about people who complain about the bugs that would have complained about the release date, the reason people complain about release dates or at least most people that do, is because normally no information is given, if they said hey, we need 3 months to get some really game breaking bugs out of this game, I certainly wouldn't have minded, unfortunately it seems they spent more time trying to get the demo out and working than they did getting the campaign game working!
thats a joke, probably a bad one but anyway
as my last point I would like to point out that I don't see why I shouldn't be able to criticise CA for releasing an inferior product, credit where credit is due, yes the potential for this game is awesome and it is fun as long as you don't bother trying to invade other regions by sea, but at the moment it is just potential and next time they might want to think about realising that potential and actually getting someone to beta test it before releasing it :clown:
Anyway, Not Happy CA!
/rant
Personally, I would rather have the game now, bugs and all, than wait another 3 months.
Bugs are not global.
I have not had a CTD yet.
CA have played this game, a lot. Yet they can't, as Lemur said, go round and test every combination of OS's, motherboards, graphics cards with drivers etc. They test with what they have.
A closed beta of 15gb? :inquisitive:
The extra month was not for the multiplayer campaign to be put in. don't know why people are still assuming it.
then you are one of the very lucky few who have a bug free game, and I'm glad that you have had no problems with that, however me and other people are having bugs which halt the progress of the game completely, not a little, not a little annoying, the game becomes unplayable, and we have a right to complain about that, and it must be a pretty strange bug then, I'm running xp service pack 3 and I would be suprised that one of their computers is not running that operating system yet if they didn't have that problem I would sure like to know why. And if the extra month was not for this multiplayer campaign mode, what was it for? because it sure didn't fix any bugs...
People prefering to get a game right now, full of bugs, than a little later but more polished...
That's really kiddy thinking "I want it now ! I want it now !".
Grow up, become adults and learn to have standards. It's not by swallowing everything thrown at you that you'll increase quality of work. If people are stupid enough to buy half-finished game, that's no surprise we're seeing more and more of this since a few years.
God I'm happy not to have bought this one. Steam-released, forced upgrade and half-finished ?
Yeah, no thanks, I'll pass.
Akka, you're arguing that the people telling other people to patiently wait for patches to sort everthing out are immature. What the hell dude? That makes no sense because those people are satisfied to wait. Most of us knew it would be this way and we bought it anyway, trusting CA to do what they should do and they are. We're not idiots, we been around long enough to know how it works.
Your 2 cents are welcome but don't go swinging at everyone like a bar room brawl or atleast get your facts straight.
There are a lot of valid viewpoints to this thing:
-I paid $50+ for a polished game and am angry because its buggy.
-I paid $50+ for a playable game and am angry because I can't get it to run.
-I paid $50+ for a game that will eventually be playable and and disappointed.
-I paid $50+ for a game knowing that it would probably be buggy and am satisfied that it will be fixed eventually.
Honestly, this is debate isn't going to change anyone's mind since your viewpoint is dictated by your expectations.
What? If I knew ETW was going to be this buggy, I would have waited for patches and a price drop to buy it. I paid the retail $50 because I am a fan of CAs' work. After playing ETW, I am very dissapointed. I dont care how good support is, the game should not have been released in this state. I like alot of the new features in the game, but when it is this buggy, playing ETW will waste my time and ruin my opinion of CA.
I don't know who started the concept of release dates for PC games. Its good to know what developers are working on, but please dont rush your games. A game should be finished, complete, and tested before it hits store shelves. I dont care if you have to delay release for 6 months, just give me a game worth playing. Programmers will have to be paid weather the game is delayed or if it is patched. The differance is customer satisfaction.:smash:
thats a fair point you raise, but I think the main point is that If theyve been doing it since the series began, then maybe we ought to stop buying it straight away, as I only came along with Medieval 2 and the kafuffle with the patches at that stage, I figured they might not want such glaring crashes in the game on release. Still I did pay my money and bought it and not having it work now does make me feel rather foolish. I know it will get fixed in time probably, I know CA did a good job of Medieval 2, but when you are trying to convince your friends to get it to play with you, it crashing in the middle or at the end of a battle Really isn't a good look. I have to say that while the game probably will be fixed eventually, that it still has put a dent in my confidence of buying let alone pre ordering another total war game. yes, we should be patient for fixes, yes it should have been released properly, CA are just going to have to take a long hard look at themselves and decide if they really want this happening a third time.
If the problems are fixed in 3 months (and major ones fixed next week or 2) I'll be a happy bunny and reconsider pre ordering their next game, if it takes longer than that to make it shiney, I'll have to think about it.
However having said that, if we knew they were going to do this to us, why do we let them get away with it? By now we should be saying you shouldn't be doing this, you've had awhile to fix your beta testing and bug crushing procedures even if it is a new game. The ball is firmly in CA's court.
Edit: and spot on Gaiseric.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durallan
I agree. My confidence has been tested but can still be improved if ETW is fixed,
For your second statement: There needs to be some sort of QA and Standards for the PC game industry. It could be as simple as a guy going around and testing differant games and giving his approval on weather or not they are in a condition to be released. If the pc gamers cant have that, then we should at least petition the gaming stores to start giving us refunds for the crappy, unfinished games that we buy.
I am very happy CA is planning several patches to fix things in the future. I am grateful for that. This is how I feel about every company that made anything I own. When I got my car, the manufacturer said "don't worry if it breaks with no apparent reason next week, we'll fix that at some point, just be patient". I got a new TV set last month and the dealer also reassured me - "if it freezes or restarts or CTDs for no reason, wait for a patch. We're here to help you. Trust us." This is how things work, don't they?
Well... not at all.
Let's be honest. If somebody would try selling you something with the promise he'll fix the bugs, at some time in the future, you would laugh at him. I want something that works properly for the money I pay. This isn't offensive, this isn't bashing or mewling. This is just common sense.
Now, I am not talking about ETW's graphics, about AI behavior, about the general mechanics of the game. There are limits in any software and there are different views on how things should look. You can't argue with people's tastes.
What I'm really hating are the bugs that make your game unplayable, those that don't have anything to do with one's computer specs. CTD's, computer restarts, lags when everything else runs smoothly on the highest settings possible... That should have been sorted out before release. This is just common sense and respect for your customers.
Of course I love the TW series. I had a crush on Shogun and got every other TW title. But this doesn't mean I should accept anything. Love is not only about passion, it is about trust and honesty as well.
Imagine CA/SEGA would say: "look, guys, the game isn't quite finished and we'll keep updating it. Now here's the deal: you can buy the game as it is for 20 bucks and add an extra 10 for every patch. Or you could wait for it to be fully stabilized and pay the full 59.99 EUR."
This would be a way to know how many fanatic fans you have and how many usual customers that would rather wait for a stable version.
Of course I would go for the beta the moment it's available, but this would be in full conscience. I wouldn't feel duped. Being duped has quite adverse effects on loving somebody.
And also in a customer-seller relationship, after all.
People, we need to separate the compatibility issues from the gameplay issues. Functionality testing and compatibility testing are two completely different test methodologies and usually are in separate labs with separate people. When I was in QA we had a 12-person team for functionality testing on the most popular configs, and then 3-person team in a 50-machine lab for compatibility testing. So yes, compatibility issues aren't global, but gameplay ones are.Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
I mean, I haven't had a CTD yet, either. Even if I did, I'm fine with, and completely understanding of, compatibility issues. That said, with the number of complaints regarding CTD's and such, they probably should've spent more time in that area as well. But I guarantee you every single copy of the game out there that is on the current release version has:
A) No naval transport by the AI
B) Pathfinding errors
C) Passive campaign AI
D) Raiding/destroying factories don't reduce income
E) Balance issues (Such as Fluyts and Galleys vs SOLs)
F) Battle AI occasionally gets stuck in loops
G) Fixed artillery in reinforcements sometimes get stuck off-map and prevent the battle from finishing
H) Ships sailing upwind raise their sails and become almost immune to chain shot
I) SAVED GAME CORRUPTION
... you get the idea. I can post a much larger list of issues like that if necessary. For a quality title, with this much hype and marketing behind it, issues like this should not be present. Not if CA wants to maintain their reputation, which is already cracking due to the last couple of releases going downhill in this regard compared to Shogun and MTW. Issues like this are present either by bad design, lack of testing, or rushing of release. There are no other reasons. Bad design, lack of testing, or lack of development time. Different system configurations have no bearing on these issues. None. Zero. Nada.
Now, some of these are more prevalent for some than others, dependent upon how you play the game. If you play as the Ottomans and never try to go colonial, odds are you aren't going to mind the lack of AI naval transport. But if you play as Great Britain, then it's almost a gamebreaker. You can leave England completely defenseless without worry, and you are never challenged in India by other colonial powers.
But again, hardware combinations have no bearing on poor design decisions or gameplay issues like the ones above.
Also, why not a closed beta of 15gb? How is that any different than releasing a 15gb game as a digital download through Steam?
Also Also, http://www.videogamer.com/news/creat...war_delay.html
I was never under the impression the MP campaign was going to be released with the game, I thought it was to put in the foundation for it and finish it up post-release, but it was one of the main factors in the delay, and with news items written like that it's easy to see why some people are confused about the matter. I also find it slightly amusing that the delay was for "polish". Marketing like that is why I was expecting nagging small gameplay issues like the above to be ironed out before release.Quote:
Empire: Total War developer Creative Assembly has explained the game's delay, saying it will allow time for polish and a new multiplayer campaign mode.
Mmh, no, I'm telling to people who say "hey, the game was released half-finished, but it's better than to have a pushed release so the game is released finished !" that they are immature (and counter-productive).Quote:
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
I think you read my message with the opposite meaning than it had ^^
That's also my opinion, and one of the main reasons I didn't bought the game, unlike every other in the serie.Quote:
but I think the main point is that If theyve been doing it since the series began, then maybe we ought to stop buying it straight away
I guess it was a misunderstanding. I do however contend that ETW isn't half finished just not properly tested. It would have been nice if they released the first 2 chapters of the RTI campaign as an open beta or something. I think its been proven on numerous occasions that fans can find wrong stuff better than anyone else.
I've done in a little beta testing for my own games before and you tend to fall into "Test the last thing I programmed. If it works then assume nothing broke and everything works."
Off-topic, but by the way :laugh4: , I absolutely love how every CTD of ETW brings up the Steam Update screen with a very nice invitation to buy some other stuff from them. "If you enjoyed this crash, here is what else you might want to try..."
Well, it isn't like Steam made your game.
Really? Immature huh? Well, my dad can beat up your dad, so there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akka
Seriously, though. Without insulting anyone, I am getting alot of play value out of the game in its current state (Multiplayer battles, RTI, Prussian GC) where alot of the gameplay problems are minimized irrelevent. I'd rather have the game and be able to enjoy those features that do work (and be able to provide quick feedback for those that do not) then wait another three months. Not to mention, three months of testing in house is most probably not going to bring to light all the problems that three weeks of general release will, so you still aren't going to get a better game from a delayed release than we will probably have at that same chronological point after the actual release.
It owns it through :-pQuote:
Originally Posted by A Very Super Market
Sorry, I couldn't help a little Steam Bashing
hrmmm... thought the point of steam was to make patch release easy, wish they'd quit cramming new fixes in and just release what's fixed now, then re-patch in a week with more fixes.
ETW is not nearly as bad as RTW or M2TW were on release. I'm playing on a freaking Packard Bell laptop and haven't had any gameplay breaking issue or CTD.
Sure, the AI is bad, some features are clearly not correctly working. But it's not nearly as bad as many other released games.
Is it just me or are we getting waves of expectation depending on when you joined the community? All those who have been here since Rome (or before) are "mostly" the low expectations but happy to wait. Whilst those who joined post Rome (with its infamous patching etc..) seem to be very disappointed. What caused this?
See, I'd be fine with a few bugs, that wouldn't worry me. I'm used to it, plus you kinda expect a few to slip through in development. What's yanking my chain is that my copy worked perfectly until they released the patch on March 10th. I'd completed RtI and started a GC as Britain. Even tried my hand (albeit dismally) at naval combat. I loved it, bugs and all.
Then the patch comes out, my version won't even get as far as loading, and no one on the SEGA support area even has the decency to respond to tell me the patch will be delayed. Thats whats pissing me off.
Clan McLeod03
I get your point. Which is why the lastest post from CA is that they are delaying the next patch to implement more stringent Q&A testing before release.