Naval Tips

Ship battles are all about movement and the weight of your broad sides. Try not to charge the enemy if there is any chance of defeat. Arrange your fleet in a line across your enemies line of advance. By making the enemy run into your formation that allows your entire fleets broadside to fire on each ship as it gets in range.

Even if you are outgunned 6on1 fights are fast and the odds can quickly swing in your favor.

Chain shot is extremely good at slowing or disabling the enemy but there are a few limitations. When moving against the wind a ships sails are reefed and make poor targets. The chances of doing any significant damage with chain when the sails are not deployed is slight. Chain from the side is much less effective then a rake from the front or back. Chain shot on his broad side only has a chance of hitting one mast but a raking shot can hit 2 or 3 sets of sails and quickly demast the largest ship.

Fire: If your ship catches fire STOP FIRING THE GUNS.
Fire is the easiest damage to spot since you will get a flashing fire symbol on the unit card and the ship will visibly have fires on deck.

If you stop shooting the crew will take the time to put out the fires and the ship can return to the fight.

Sinking: If your ship is in danger of sinking stop all movement.
This is almost impossible to spot and you rarely have more than a few seconds to act. If you see the blue flash on the corner of the unit card immediately dropping anchor will save the ship. You can still fire but never move for any reason.

Maneuverability can be more important than fire power. I will take a 5th rate over a 4th rate any day the 5th rate can turn well inside of the 4th rate. 3rd rates have longer range guns and are faster than a 2nd rate. Being faster with longer guns or a better maneuverability means you get to pick when are where you fight. Two unanswered vollies can erase the difference in firepower then they are yours.

Position your ships up wind of the enemy and start with chain loaded.

More than three ships in a line is unwieldy. Try to mix your fleets with a few light fast ships and the heavies.

I usually never build anything heavier than 3rd Rates. The best Frigates are Razees and sloops are grate for slowing the enemy.

Keeping the light ships in front of the enemy and crossing back an fourth while keeping out of their arc of fire is how I start off. Then bring in the heavier ships that can stand the broadsides.

Fluyts conquer all.

Unless conditions are favorable for another kind of approach I usually sail straight for the last ship in the enemy line. That is one of the biggest flaws of line astern; the rear ships MUST follow the more or less exact course of the lead ship, making it a simple matter to predict their movement. When I get to the rear of their line, I make a wide tack around the rear of their line, so as my line circles the rear of their line, as many as 6 to 8 ships' field of fire will overlap on the rear of the enemy line (I like using long line formations of around 8-10 ships each).

So with that done, the AI is probably down a couple ships by this time. While this was going on the AI will probably come about with his lead ship to attack your line. Because you were sailing for the rear of his line, this most likely forces him to make a sharp change in direction; depending on what kind of ships is in the enemy fleet, this may force them into a logjam. While the AI is changing direction chances are he can't attack while your rear ships are most likely tearing him up with raking fire on their bows.

You can also isolate other parts of the AI line in this way, just watch what course their lead ship sails and plan accordingly.

for some reason my ships keep sinking, even though i have no warning.

and sometimes my ship will ram the enemy ship, greek style. unfortunately then i have about half a dozen cannons shooting my front while im stuck there until it either sinks or my other ships can win the battle. its real annoying...

what countries get fluyts?

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Originally Posted by John-117

for some reason my ships keep sinking, even though i have no warning.

and sometimes my ship will ram the enemy ship, greek style. unfortunately then i have about half a dozen cannons shooting my front while im stuck there until it either sinks or my other ships can win the battle. its real annoying...

what countries get fluyts?

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I'm sorry, I don't think I understand, are you saying your game is bugged so it won't let you control your ship and actually "mind control" your ship into taking a new heading directly into the AI's ship? Haven't seen a bug like that yet on my games so far.

United Provinces get Fluyts. They're not that great, sorry subotan :laugh4:. I think most people are having trouble with it because they underestimate the ship, as most people think, and rightly so, that this is a cargo ship. Therefore they go in gung ho with their frigate and try going broadside for broadside with it before coming out disappointed that a lowly cargo ship just wtfpwned their 5th rate frigate.

That is because as far as game stats go, the fluyt is not a cargo ship, but a rather archaic ship of the line, and should be regarded as a line ship when planning your approach. Its 42 gun broadside is more or less comparable with your 5th rate broadside, but the hull is ship of the line strength. Thats why many players new to ETW's naval combat will lose to the fluyt pirate fleet in the beginning of grand campaign; they're thinking they're gonna go in and pick up an easy prize, end up trying to board without causing enough casualties first, then get destroyed at point blank range (the fact that most of us TW veterans, based on our past experience, will always start a new release on VH or H, further exacerbates the uberness of the fluyt).

In fact, when sailed correctly, fluyts and galleons can't really touch a frigate (4th rates die to frigates also), simply because as a frigate you can more or less always keep out of the fluyt's field of fire.

I think the game is bugged where i cant do damage worth squat at close range on the enemy while on his stern while he's pounding the ever living crap out of me at extreme range. Also where my ships sink or surrender when they're mostly green and the AI ships keep right on fighting and not sinking despite being very far in the red.

Can naval masters post some vids. We navally challenged need all the help we can get!

^ I noticed this too in the RTI. My 4th rates were going up against galleons, and while my ships were sinking while in the yellow/orange zone, the galleons were still happily firing away while in deep red.

So far the only way I can fight is to go line to line with the enemy, going across the wind. Once I pass their line, I turn the fleet around and go back for more. This only works in evenly matched battles, as casualties will probably be 1 to 1.

I still can't get chain shot to work well. I can do multiple broadsides to a ship with it's sails fully out, and it will do barely any damage.

dont even bother with chainshot, i have never used it but my round shot wrecks the enemy sails alot of the time. beasically if you are trying to board, use roundshot from the front and it will tear the sails. then disable most of the cannons and grapeshot that side til either they surrender or you can safely board.

@marquis: I think thats what happens. i dont tell them to ram the enemy, but somehow trying to turn anywhere near them sometimes they take control and allow a bunch of cannons to destroy them. pity really.

got this from the twcenter forum check this it is pretty good when kiling the navie
http://www.gamereplays.org/empiretot...nd-double-line

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Originally Posted by Merak

got this from the twcenter forum check this it is pretty good when kiling the navie
http://www.gamereplays.org/empiretot...nd-double-line

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I never seem to be able to pull this off. the double line gets scattered on the slightest turn... so, I end up micromanaging each ship separately.

hmm have you grouped them in 2 diffent group/lines?

Hey guys,

Here are some ideas on how to fight naval battles that I've picked up - hopefully it helps some of you still having trouble with the new feature.

These tactics are ideally suited to small navies (1 - 3 ships) but have been extremely successful against much larger numbers. To give you some idea, my last battle saw a Brig and a Sloop with no admiral take down a rank 3 Pirate fleet containing a 5th Rate and 4 Other Pirate vessels (all captured without significant damage).

Setup Phase
Position yourself according to the wind. You'll always want to be upwind of the enemy forcing them to sail "uphill" to reach you. Ideally you have a smaller, more nimble vessels suited to sailing upwind (non-square rigged ships such as Sloops and Brigs). If the wind is blowing towards you angling from the right to left, position yourself on the extreme right. Attacking is usually much easier as you often start with the advantage. I typically position in a loose line astern, with my heavier ship in the front.

First Moves
If you are not upwind your first move should be to quickly assume this position (double click to move fast). Holding the gauge (ie, being upwind) is crucial as otherwise your nimble fleet can be much easier chased down by a large ship. Once you're upwind the enemy will be forced to slowly work their way up towards you - usually in Line Astern formation. Once you are in a good position (ie, both of your ships will be able to fire a broadside at the approaching line at the same time, order them to stop (backspace from memory).

Engaging the Enemy
Use chainshot and engage the enemy at extreme range. You can fire beyond the 'normal' (auto-fire) range by firing a broadside at the approaching fleet, enabling you to fire at least twice at the enemy as they enter your official range. Chainshot is also aimed higher than normal so you'll be able to fire particularly far with that ordnance.

Fire and Flee
As soon as your ship(s) have fired you'll need to swing into action. The idea here is to keep your ships just out of range, but always making them work their way into the wind as they come towards you. This involves a series of sharp turns with a run into the wind. The sharp turns can be achieved by clicking close to the ship of either side. Turning at high speed seems to result in a large circle so only click once to turn your ship away. Run at high speed briefly and then turn again to the opposite side which will have guns already loaded. Repeat as often as possible.

Impact
You'll fire many, many shots of chainshot into the lead ship causing it to slow, making the entire line slow down. You may also find that as chainshot is aimed so high and the enemy line is winding towards you that you'll also have the chance to hit multiple ships with each shot. Chainshot actually makes it easier to fire at the enemy yet remain out of reach in front, so really once the first ship is in trouble the battle is basically over. Once the lead ship is in serious trouble the rest of the fleet will try to take over and attack you. Simply repeat the exercise until all ships are completely dismasted.

Mopping Up
Once ships are completely immobilised the rest is easy. Position your ships in front of the enemy (off to one side slightly) and let them have it with grapeshot. This will force the demoralised ship to surrender in just a few broadsides. Move from ship to ship and finish off the rest of them - taking care to avoid being hit by dismasted ships that have yet to surrender.

The beauty of this is that you can escape nearly completely unscathed and the ships you capture (at least on the campaign map) have new sails on their otherwise practically undamaged hulls.

Good Luck!

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Originally Posted by Marquis of Roland

United Provinces get Fluyts. They're not that great, sorry subotan :laugh4:.

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Hehehe I know. I was just playing of the fact that everybody seems to be going OMGWTFBBQFLUYTS. I've never even fought one on the battle map :D

Ritterkreuz, thats more of an AI exploit than a tactic.

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Originally Posted by Merak

got this from the twcenter forum check this it is pretty good when kiling the navie
http://www.gamereplays.org/empiretot...nd-double-line

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Ugh, thats a terrible way of doing battle.
In the video he hits his own ships with the further away group repeatedly.
If you want to do an offset line like that do it with a single group & they'll keep much better cohesion.

Here's some tips from me:

• The AI is very good at making sure its guns are bearing on your ships almost the whole time, if you don't do the same you'll get hurt by this & I think its the main reason that people are having a hard time.
  Just charging in to close the gap & copping 2 or 3 unanswered salvos will leave you damaged, with reduced crew & a number of guns down.
• Leave your ships on fire at will, broadsides tend to miss with most of the shot & you'll often miss a salvo while closing that would have gone out on fire at will.
• Leave your ships firing round shot much longer than you feel like you should.
  It's very easy to get yourself shot up by trying to be tricky with chain/grape shot without first making sure the enemy has had his firepower sufficiently weakened.
• Don't use grape shot against the wooden sides of a ship.
  To kill off gun crew, you first need to shoot open the sides of the ship using round shot, only once there are big holes is it worth firing some close range grape.
• Galleons & Fluyts are about equivalent to a 4th rater.
  6th & 5th raters eat sloops & brigs for lunch & 4th raters are significantly better than 5th raters so don't go attacking Galleons with a bunch of brigs.
• Don't let your newest & greatest or legendary experienced ship get close to galleys, xebecs or brigs unless you don't mind seeing your ship chain reaction explode
• If you want ship captures don't just end the battle when everyone is routing, you need to chase the routing ships down & force them to surrender either by dismasting, de-crewing or scaring them with overpowering force nearby.
• Heavily shot-up ships are prone to sinking if you start doing hard maneuvres/going full speed, if you can spare the guns it may be better to move the ship out of the battle & let it come to a stop.

Good tips Hoom.

I'm not unhappy using my tactic when required. I know in real life I would certainly use smaller ships to manoeuvre both upwind and out of range whenever possible. Being more nimble also gives me the option to flee when required (pointing higher into the wind/had better downwind speed), something the game doesn't always let you do.

If the AI was smarter, however, I would say it would either give up the fight or split their formation to counter the tactic. Must be pretty hard to code for that, however.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by hoom

Don't let your newest & greatest or legendary experienced ship get close to galleys, xebecs or brigs unless you don't mind seeing your ship chain reaction explode

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All too true.

I nearly lost a 3rd rater to an exploding Brig. The bugger got too close when a 2nd rater gave it a broadside just as the 3rd rater did. Instant explosion and my poor 3rd rater was burning like a slick of oil and taking on water. In the end I thought I would lose it as it listed absolutely insanely and settling by the bow. But somehow it managed ot stay afloat and sink another Brig that tried to run for it (not too bright fleeing past a big nasty ship of the line out for vengeance).

For that and the fact that light galleys seem to be insanely hard to hit, I've found that having four or so light galleys is quite useful early on during my Swedish campaign. I'd have them run out before my line, pester the enemy, and if any got close to sinking, KAMIKAZE YAARGH :tnt:

If I was lucky I'd knock a ship out, although normally it'd just screw with the AI's formation as it'd attempt to turn to fire on the galleys and nearly ram into its own ships. Then my line could sail in and deliver the real pounding.

i just got my ass kicked in the ivory coast by the portuguese using brigs versus galleons. how can i beat them?

I usually take a single ship and ram it into the lead ship(or park it infront which is funnier). Might as well not gamble with chain shot and just pound the living daylights out of them.

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i just got my ass kicked in the ivory coast by the Portuguese using brigs versus galleons. how can i beat them?

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You had Galleons vs Portugese with Brigs?! Did they heavily outnumber you?

If it was the Portugese with the Galleons, see my earlier post regarding the strength of Galleons...

Play some 1v1 single player battles against a couple of Galleons to get an idea of what you can & can't beat them with.

I take the opposite tack and go for the biggest and toughest warships. At the extreme end of the scale, firepower and resilience can compensate for lack of speed. Since Naval Hospital comes before Steam Drydock the AI will always build it and thus never be able to build First Rates and Heavy First Rates, so you can simply overwhelm him with firepower if you have trouble outsailing him. A single broadside from 'El Ponderoso' can demolish anything smaller than a 5th-rate. Just beware of rocket ships.

Ive had mixed fortunes in my naval warfare. I always try to go for the capture when at all possible, and am a big fan of boarding attacks.

A few basic pointers, though most have already been covered and others will seem like simple common sense, but have caught me out occassionally;

Never send a smaller ship in broadside-to-broadside with a larger ship. I made this mistake on the RTI campaign when i sent 4 sloops against a 3rd rate SotL. I figured that i would zoom past it with my superior speed, and batter the crew with grapeshots - i was in for a nasty surprise. The 3rd rate broadsides annihilated my poor sloops and they either sunk or routed.
If you have smaller vessels such as sloops or brigs, use their manouevrability to compensate for lack of firepower. Chain Shots can seem weak initally (especially when the AI is battering you with round shots), but if you are anticipating a lengthy battle (or anything more than a simple zerg/charge/capture) then they are worth it in the long run, de-masting and crippling the opponent allows you to stay out of their firing arcs and bombard them without fear of reprecussion.

Im a big fan of the grapeshots myself. I was interested by the previous poster recommending not to use grapeshots on a broadside until the opponents ship had been weakened by round shots - i had never considered this, and was often annoyed by how little my grapeshots were doing on broadsides. Conversely, a grape or chain shot fired "raking" at the front or back of a vessel does major damage. Even a smaller ship can inflict massive casualties and sail damage with the right positioning this way.



Larger ships pack a devastating broadside and usually can serve one of two purposes;

1) Getting into the thick of things with massive firepower to destroy enemies.
2) Staying at long range to offer "artillary" style attacks.

The key is simply about their movement (or lack of). If you think you can get your heavier ships into close distance of the enemy, then do so (assuming the opponent vessels arent even heavier!), but if you are concered about them out-manouevring you, then dont play to their rules - keep your ships back, arrange them so their combined firing arcs cover almost every angle, and let the enemy come to you. More than once i have been so focused on the close range combats going on that i have scarcely noticed the couple of 2nd rates the AI has crept up onto the edge of the combat area - firing in huge volleys of round shots from a safe distance away. This is a very valid tactic if the enemy ships are tied up already and you dont want to risk engaging them head on.



Finally - Use both sides of your ship.
Every ship has cannons on both sides, and should be used as such. If you think about it, an arrangement like this:

X ---- O -----X

X = enemy ship
O = your ship (of the same quality)

Your ship will be firing from both sides, and hence putting out just as much firepower as the two enemy ships combined! You will be suffering more incoming damage granted, but it can help get the most out of your vessel if you adopt an aggressive approach like that.
Turning your ships a lot so that both sides of cannons can fire often will ensure you get maximum efficiency out of your ships - dont restrict your ships to half of their available firepower by simply facing them the same way all the time. Tactically, it can be hard to position and turn your ships to fire from both sides without being at risk.


One of the tactics i use against a standard lined up enemy fleet is to simply charge my strongest vessel right through the middle of them (at a 90 degree angle) - you will take incoming fire, hence why you use your most durable ship, but once you get between two enemy ships (with neither of them having their firing sides towards you), you can simply drop anchor there and deliver several rounds of devastating grapeshots before they manage to reposition themselves, at which point its time to get on the move again!

Chain is great! The slower the enemy the harder it is for them to maneuver, including turns.

Then even light ships can pound them into striking and maneuver to shoot and not have them shot at.

This is especially important if you are the defender. Sometimes out lasting the enemy is more important than killing him.

I had a recent battle I very much needed to win.

A pirate fleet of a flute, a 6th rate, and an Indiaman attacked a damaged light galley but a trade fleet of a sloop and an Indiaman were coming as reinforcements. I needed to fight because next turn it would only be the sloop and Indiaman that were attacked. The pirates had several strips each, of course but some damage.

I put the galley as far upwind as I could and waited to see where the other ships arrived from and when the battle started I sent the galley upwind.

When the other two arrived they had the wind to their backs. I just left the Indiaman at the map edge, not wanting it damaged and finding them useless in battle for the most part. (too slow and weak to fight well alone)

The sloop I set to chain shot and sent down toward the enemy. Then I turned the galley to take shots head on at the enemy.

The flute was the big danger but the 6th rate was fast and a danger to the two small ships, so I tried a couple of shots at it to slow it, then the galley would turn and run a little more toward the sloop.

The sloop arrived and got some good shots into the rigging as the enemy went for the galley. I managed to slow the 6th rate enough to not be as much a threat to the galley. Then they went for the sloop and I sent the galley toward their rear.

I just kept maneuvering the sloop to get in some shots and run. At some point the galley managed to get a kill shot into the 6th rate, but I didn’t see it.

I just kept up the hit and run until the pirates were slow and sluggish. The enemy Indiaman’s guns were of little threat so I concentrated on the flute, which was a bear…

I switched the sloop to round shot to knock out some of the flutes guns and kept the galley moving from a different area.

At last the Indiaman struck and the flute was too slow to get in any shots before I could get clear and finally struck…I don’t know why it never sunk, but I did win the battle.

i jut started a dutch campaign, and i have to say:

they have the undisputably best navy at the start of the game. all of their navies start with a sixth rate and 5th rate each, and they get fluyts.

i know some people said fluyts suck, but i beat a 5th rate(or a 6th rate, i dont remember) and a brig with a single fluyt. they are extremely powerful until you get 4th rates, plus they can be used as trade ships. if nothing else, they can easily defend themselves while trading. nothing smaller than a 6th rate will beat them.

Hi,

These posts are really interesting ! So far, I've handled naval battles as well as a cannon ball would swim :wall:, so I guess I will learn a lot !
However, I have one question regarding automatic firing vs manual. Do you use manual firing ? I have the feeling that manual firing is very restrictive as it only shot at 90° from ship while automatic firing can shhot at ennemies "toward" rear and front. On top of it, even when shooting (manually) at max cannon capacity straight into ennemy which was very close to my ship, the ennemy got almost no damage (at least it's the feeling I have).
Is there something I completely missed ?
ricorico

I only use broadsides out of nostalgia for my Pirates! days. Otherwise, I think most times, you're better off with letting your crew do their stuff.

Is broadside timing affected by the rocking of the ship? Has anyone noted if broadsides have any additional impact on a ship's morale vis-a-vis fire at will?

Hi ricorico! Welcome to the Org!

I have a question of my own-is it better to actually select an enemy ship for your ship to attack, or should you just manouever your ship into position and keep fire at will on? I've had the somewhat annoying problem when I use the attack command that my ship keeps trying to rotate to the loaded side, which results in it swimming in little circles whilst being pounded with roundshot.

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Originally Posted by dopp

I take the opposite tack and go for the biggest and toughest warships. At the extreme end of the scale, firepower and resilience can compensate for lack of speed. Since Naval Hospital comes before Steam Drydock the AI will always build it and thus never be able to build First Rates and Heavy First Rates, so you can simply overwhelm him with firepower if you have trouble outsailing him. A single broadside from 'El Ponderoso' can demolish anything smaller than a 5th-rate. Just beware of rocket ships.

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Same here, the AI will cheerfully fling itself into combat no matter the odds (it doesn't seem to know about the retreat button), so although I do frequently have the most powerful navy on the planet, the point is more to attain local superiority and defeat the enemy through sheer mathematics fleet by fleet.

Even if by some miracle the AI could build First Rates of any kind, they just won't make entire fleets of them like we will. And the numbers just don't add up when you try to take on twenty heavy first rates with anything other than twenty heavy first rates with the way the AI fights. They always pad out with lighter ships.

Two points guy's:

Leave your ships on Fire at Will. They will be far more accurate and quicker than you could ever hope of being.

Second: Pretend your ships are simply mobile firing platforms, which is what they are so it's not pretending at all :beam:

Your job is to position or sail them as best as possible to bring the maximum number of guns to bare on the enemy. If you do that, you have the best chance of winning.

Anything more than 4 ships in one group, starts to get a little tricky to control, so create 2 or 3 groups of 4 ships if you have that many.

If the AI has smaller ships it will sometimes deliberately try and close the distance and block you, which can also lead to massive boradsides which are great, until that AI ship (brig or sloop) detonates right next to you brand new 74 gun 3rd rater...at that point kiss your 3rd raters butt cheeks goodbye.

Keep your distance if you have more guns...let them do the work and sail in nice straight lines.

The "use smaller ships to defeat SoLs" tips above remind me the good old days of playing Port Royale 1 & 2, especially 2 when Ascaron actually turned the naval combat into essentially an arcade game, allowing only 1 player ship vs 5 AI ships. The best ship in the game was the 32 gun military frigate, which could by itself wipe out 5 SoLs using the above tactics...

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Originally Posted by anweRU

The "use smaller ships to defeat SoLs" tips above remind me the good old days of playing Port Royale 1 & 2, especially 2 when Ascaron actually turned the naval combat into essentially an arcade game, allowing only 1 player ship vs 5 AI ships. The best ship in the game was the 32 gun military frigate, which could by itself wipe out 5 SoLs using the above tactics...

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Sounds epic, I'm gonna try that later in custom battle; 1 6th rate vs. 1 heavy 1st, 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd, and 1 4th? :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by dopp

I take the opposite tack and go for the biggest and toughest warships. At the extreme end of the scale, firepower and resilience can compensate for lack of speed. Since Naval Hospital comes before Steam Drydock the AI will always build it and thus never be able to build First Rates and Heavy First Rates, so you can simply overwhelm him with firepower if you have trouble outsailing him. A single broadside from 'El Ponderoso' can demolish anything smaller than a 5th-rate. Just beware of rocket ships.

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I also prefer anything better than 4th rate. Take Heavy First Rates - they may be somewhat slower, but they outgun everything and if you have enough ships, the AI just can't outflank you even with the fastest ships. The AI normaly keeps its ships together, anyway

My tip: Take care that both sides of a ship get more or less equally damaged - if one side is significantly more damaged than the other, the ship starts to heel and may sink, even if the overall damage is not that immense.

:help: does anyone know why some ships have a firing range of 400, while others have a range of 500?!

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Originally Posted by Liberator

:help: does anyone know why some ships have a firing range of 400, while others have a range of 500?!

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I'm pretty sure it's a mistake by CA. All SOLs should have the same range.

nobody likes galleons? I am playing with the british and I am trying to capture as much galleons and fluyts as I can

I think galleons are powerful and comparable with the fluyts and can do commerce too

I've been experimenting successfully with a "bait" ship....it's a job for a daring up-and-coming captain of a frigate

I form my main line of 5-6 ships and keep one ship seperate from the group.
Then I sail my line towards the enemy as normal, to engage in a broadside duel. This tactic works best when you expect to sail past each other in the initial exchange of fire, rather than when you expect to engage while sailing in the same direction....I usually find this is down to the wind direction and initial set-up
The single ship sails slightly out ahead, and off to the side of the main group that will keep it further away from the enemy ships. Make sure it is just in range of the enemy ships. As it passes the enemy, they will fire on the single ship...largely wasting their shots at extreme range. Then the main group can engage at close range before the enemy can reload.
You can deal an initial heavy blow to the lead ships...often my two front ships get a free broadside and the third ship cops the second broadside of the leading enemy ship...by which time, the strength is much lower.

The single ship retreats away from the enemy when its damage on one side is around 1/2...but it often sails the length of the line with minimal problems and then turns to present its undamaged side and assist the rest of the fleet

You guys encountered suicide Dhows yet.:dizzy2:

Had to deal with a few when taking down the Maratha's Navy, they seem to charge straight at your best ships, or the Admiral's Flagship if they can and then explode right under your guns. Had a couple of near misses when my flagship caught fire, then learned to concentrate my fire on these vessels first, just to remove the threat.

Tip: never try to "cross the T" when going against a swarm of galleys (of any size). Galley guns (small in number but high firepower) are pointed forward and it seems, a line of galleys can shoot their guns simultaneously...

Personally, I prefer the French strategy and tend to choose the leeward position for my fleet (e.g. downwind of the enemy).

The advantage is that this enables me to maneouvre without having to worry about sailing too close to the wind and without having to tack through the wind to change tack. Ideally, I start the battle slightly to windward and then use the flexibility of having the wind behind me to choose my angle of approach.

I then cross the enemy 'T' sacrificing the wind gauge in the process.

Having passed across or through the enemy fleet I can then deliberately fall back downwind whenever I like to keep the range long and force them to keep running down on me. Also by sailing back and forth across their line I have more flexibility and speed with the wind abeam and can virtually choose how close I want the action to be and at what point I want to breach the enemy line (if at all).

I find fighting the enemy from windward makes it virtually impossible to keep your distance and forces you to fight at close quarters, which is not a good idea if you have the advantage of firepower on your side.

Unless I am heavily outnumbered, I always split my fleet into two squadrons, both in line formation. The heavier squadron attempts to cross the T on the enemy fleet, then turns down the far side of the enemy fleet and exchanges broadsides the entire way. The lighter squadron aims for the other side of the enemy formation and exchanges broadsides going down that side, usually resulting in the enemy getting hit from both sides simultaneously. Depending on the situation, when the squadrons reach the end of the enemy line, they either reverse course and turn back up the line, once again exchanging broadsides, but this time with their undamaged side to the enemy, or turn the other direction and cross the enemy in the rear.

That worked well pre patch.

Now it is a matter of building what you can afford…and for me so far it has not been much.

I do a lot of dancing around them using chain shot and then when they are dead in the water go up and pound them until they strike.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Didz

You guys encountered suicide Dhows yet.:dizzy2:

Had to deal with a few when taking down the Maratha's Navy, they seem to charge straight at your best ships, or the Admiral's Flagship if they can and then explode right under your guns. Had a couple of near misses when my flagship caught fire, then learned to concentrate my fire on these vessels first, just to remove the threat.

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You should treat any ship that lights up easily as fireships. Basically anything smaller than a 6th rate falls in this category. Stay away from them, and hope they get caught in each other's explosions.

I just finished a tough one! A sixth rate and two sloops vs. a fifth rate and an Indiaman. Savoy also brought an Indiaman to the show, but you know how those things fight. Still it may have done some damage. I have little respect for their guns. A sloop can fight them like it was a 3rd rate.

I shot away the sails from the 5th rate and ended up sinking the Indiaman when I was trying to get the 5th rate to strike. The sloops were lightly damaged…had a fight with a galley before going into the fight also. The 6th rate took a bit more damage but I captured a nice 5th rate out of the deal.

I didn’t think the thing was ever going to strike. It only had 15 guns left and only about 35 men. It was blocking my one and only trade port as Spain. It had to be done…

It really was not easy. The wind was head on to my starting position. I moved the ships to the corner and angled them across the wind to intercept. Staying away from the guns was the main problem and coordinating the two groups was not easy either. The 6th rate did most of the heavy work, staying in front of the 5th rate and giving him pepper. I thought they were going to run me off the map for a while until I could get a better angle on the wind.

I've found that if you get the AI fleet to bunch up and ruin their formation, things become very favourable for you quickly! It's a bit tricky to get it to do that though. Early in my campaign as UP I've had a line with my main ships (Fluyts, fifth rates, galleons I've captured and sixth rates) try to cross the T in front of the enemy line at the beginning of a battle, while a faster small squadron of brigs/sloops go up their broadside, alternatively try to go around them and cross the T from behind as they reach my line. Looks something like this...

X A
X |
X |
X S/B
X S/B
X S/B
X
|
|
V


<-------UP UP UP UP UP UP UP

In this scenario the wind is blowing right to left or northwest.
So I try to get the UP line to go past the enemys flag ship. Sometimes it turns, sometimes not. Sometimes, the enemy turns to focus on the sloops and brigs, and that can sometimes get it to bunch up and slow down or pretty much stop entirely. Then my main line usually starts spinning in place below it (to deliver more broadsides), or simply slowly circles the bunch in a line. The concentrated fire usually does wonders. Sloops and sixth rates chase and board routers if necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dead Guy

I've found that if you get the AI fleet to bunch up and ruin their formation, things become very favourable for you quickly! It's a bit tricky to get it to do that though.

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All you have to do to get AI to bunch up is to sail for the last ship in his line, and away from the first ship in the line.

I just fought an uneven battle where I used that tactic. I had the USS Constitution (7exp) versus 2 galleons, 2 fluyts, and 2 race-built galleons (pirate faction, all 2exp). Difficulty medium, clear weather and moderate westerly breeze.

I started off with the weather gage and sailed in a wide arch towards the rear of their fleet. their lead ships started tacking into the wind, slowing their speed to a crawl. With the new patch, ships will adjust speed according to the lead ship and whats immediately ahead of them, so their entire line was basically immobilized.

To simplify, once I balled them up, I just kept picking at them with long-range chain-shot salvos, periodically sailing in closer for a raking broadside whenever I saw opportunities where their guns won't be aiming at me for a couple seconds (or only 1 or half a broadside could be brought to bear on me in time).

End result: USS constitution - 12 guns out of action, 44 casualties. Pirates - both race-built galleons sunk, both fluyts struck their colors with 1 sinking, 1 galleon exploded and the other captured. To the AI's credit it did break up its formation to try to cut me off and surround me.

For those who don't have USS Constitution, it is a slightly slower 24-pdr frigate with about 50% more hull strength.

The AI is definately a slave to the formation, or should we say the flagship.

My best example of it was a battle I should always have won, but one that could have been costly.
A mess of brigs, sloops and a 6th rater or two faced my fleet of two 4th raters, two 5th raters two 6th raters and a brig.

Knowing the AI would stick to it's line and try to cross my line of advance I put my big ships in one line and the three smaller ones in another. I kept my big ships in good wind so I could dictate the direction the battle would take, while I kep the smaller ships behind and a bit to the leeward. The plan was to rake both sides or hold the enemy with the big ships while the small ships crossed the T.
Well the AI was fast, and as soon as we passed each other it turned into the wind behind my big ships, in turn I did too to present the unharmed side. The AI continued the turn (what else could it do), at this point my small ships came down the other side, so the AI flagship now responded to them and once more turned, more or less back onto the original course... trouble was just that it got tangled with the last few ships in it's line.

And so there I had them, completely tangled up, ships turned this and that way close to each other. Firing was very hard for them as a friendly ship blocked a lot of it. Meanwhile my ships played indians on horses and circled the wagontrain. Superior firepower obviously ended the encounter pretty soon, but it was in fact the control of the battle that had beaten the enemy.

And I must admit I enjoyed the view when the battle was over I had seen several ships explode, a couple surrender to be captured, but otherwise it looked like a shipgraveyard with masts and hulks lying in a big mess. Especially the explosions had created awesome results. One in particular sinking at least three others. It looked like my sailors could have walked dry from one squadron to the other. I really should have made a screenshot.