Questions about KH

I started today with KH and i must admit- they are awesome! Ive kicked out Macs pretty soon, and before i engage Epeiros ive decided to build my army and economy.. at this moment i can recruit many hoplites and calvary units, but still i cannot recruit KH pikemen (wich can form a phalanx): so i want to know if there is some trigger related to Roman reforms after wich i could train my pikemen? In recruitment viewer i cant even find them, but they are on the list of military units on EB site (named as KH pikemen), so im a little bit confused... anyone?

And yeah: why do some of my FMs have spartans for bodyguards (and have around 60 men in unit), and some are different (and they have around 40 men in unit)? I mean: they are FMs afterall?

:dizzy2:

the pikemen will come as a reform unit in when the vanilla marians happen.
As for the bodyguards, well the spartans have spartan hoplites, the other's the regular ones...

Wow, you know there's been a thread identical to this about a week ago, why not do a forum search?
Anyway you get the pikemen with the MOT and only 3 starting generals will ever have spartans as bodyguards, all the rest (future and present) will the noble guys, about the number, the standard for an infantry general (on huge) is 80 but since he has spartans (wich aren't a normal general unit) he gets the normal number of soldiers in a spartan unit.
Edit: argh too late!

The March of Time will enable the pikemen. The Romans need to build 2 huge cities in Italy.

Your starting Spartan generals have the spartan bodyguard. All other generals, including Spartans (born or adopted) will have the other bodyguard. The size of the bodygaurd depends on your general traits.

Well, these are very common questions, although I doubt they can be found in the FAQs. For this sort of stuff, usually a forum search is the best, although you normally get too many results for it to be useful.


Question One: Yes, it is the reforms that trigger the KH pike phalanx recruitment. Well, sort of reforms. Basically, it is the old vanilla March of Time. A settlement in central Italy has to reach Huge size to activate the March of Time. AFAIK, it cannot be Rome. The easiest way to quickly get the Marhc of Time is to capture Capua, add_population Capua <insert number> via console (~), build a palace that upgrades the city to Large and then Huge and finally give it back to Rome with Force Diplomacy mod or jsut hope they take it (by force - just leave the city empty, or via normal diplomacy).



Question Two: Some starting KH FMs have Spartan Bodyguards. Other have the standard ones. It is based on the character's historical ethnicity. All your subsequent FMs will have the normal bodyguards.

The size of the bodyguard depends on three things: a little bit on age and influence as well as a WHOLE lot on the total amount of personal security from traits. There was research done on this in Ludus Magna and from my personal experience, I have observed the same things. Personal security has an enormous effect. All my paranoid FMs have gargantuan bodyguards. Oh, and yes, faction leaders and heirs also get a huge boost in bodyguards.




EDIT: Well, I knew other people were going to post before me, but I began typing when there were no replies yet. Not to mention, my post is long and (hopefully) informative. Darn my laptop! I type so much faster on my desktop!!

Thanks to all of you, guys!

(i Sloveniji također ;-)

(next time ill do a forum search :oops:


:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

Thanks to all of you, guys!

(i Sloveniji također ;-)

(next time ill do a forum search :oops:


:2thumbsup:

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:beam:

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Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

(next time ill do a forum search :oops:

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Heh, that's OK. There is a reason why these forums and members such as me exist. Part of it is to answer questions one might have about EB. And yes, forum searches are often difficult, as it is not Google. Type in "KH phalangites" or 'March of Time" and 80+% of the results will not help you understand how to attain the two at all.

Oh no, I just deleted today my saves from my only KH game. First I was all excited with the campaign, conquered Makies, Epeirotes, Pontus and half Egypt, the problem as KH be prepared for some cities revolting to your favour around the world, like Messana, Galatia, Helikarnassos and Emporion. The problem is Messana gave me an imediate war with romans and qarties without a chance to give the city back through diplomacy, Emporion started a war with Lusotana and the thing went pretty dark to me. They all allied against me and my empire colapsed through multiple fronts. Sad... :no:

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Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

Question One: Yes, it is the reforms that trigger the KH pike phalanx recruitment. Well, sort of reforms. Basically, it is the old vanilla March of Time. A settlement in central Italy has to reach Huge size to activate the March of Time. AFAIK, it cannot be Rome. The easiest way to quickly get the Marhc of Time is to capture Capua, add_population Capua <insert number> via console (~), build a palace that upgrades the city to Large and then Huge and finally give it back to Rome with Force Diplomacy mod or jsut hope they take it (by force - just leave the city empty, or via normal diplomacy).

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Nearly correct, the MOT occurs when there is a city other that Rome with a Imperial Palace of Roman culture in Italy. This means the Romans have to have upgraded the city themselves, simply capturing the city and upgrading it yourself will not work as the place will have a different culture (greek in the case of the KH). One way to speed things up is to use the add_population and process_cq cheats till they build the palace.

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Originally Posted by bobbin

Nearly correct, the MOT occurs when there is a city other that Rome with a Imperial Palace of Roman culture in Italy. This means the Romans have to have upgraded the city themselves, simply capturing the city and upgrading it yourself will not work as the place will have a different culture (greek in the case of the KH). One way to speed things up is to use the add_population and process_cq cheats till they build the palace.

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Wrong. Works with a KH or Makedonian Palace fine too.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

Just checked it and you are right, my bad.

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Originally Posted by bobbin

Just checked it and you are right, my bad.

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Heh, and I was about to apologise for my mistake... Well, that's one point for procrastination!

A balloon for Zett for setting me straight and one for AP for his fortuitous procrastination!

:balloon3::balloon2: you can decide among yourselves who get what:yes:

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Originally Posted by bobbin

A balloon for Zett for setting me straight and one for AP for his fortuitous procrastination!

:balloon3::balloon2: you can decide among yourselves who get what:yes:

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Thanks, I will take the green one.

By the way, I only tested it with KH and Makedonia (the both factions that get new units with the MoT). I'm pretty sure that it works with all factions, but I couldn't test it.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

you do not get 80 men in your generals unit... your king can have as many as 125, but i find the number for anyone rounding off around 100-120.


do a forum search on my name to find some of my KH related posts.



this reminds me... should i continue my Spartan AAR?

Sure you should! It would be great to see an AAR resurrected! :2thumbsup: They usually die in too young an age (especially those of mine:shame:)

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Originally Posted by Celtic_Punk

this reminds me... should i continue my Spartan AAR?

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Definitely! Always love a good KH AAR :smash:

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Originally Posted by Lovejoy

Your starting Spartan generals have the spartan bodyguard. All other generals, including Spartans (born or adopted) will have the other bodyguard. The size of the bodygaurd depends on your general traits.

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So you don't have the spartan hoplite bodyguards later in the game anymore?

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Originally Posted by TheStranger

So you don't have the spartan hoplite bodyguards later in the game anymore?

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Sadly.

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Originally Posted by Celtic_Punk

you do not get 80 men in your generals unit

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What i meant was that the standard number, when they come of age is 80, for infantry, for cavalry 40.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus

What i meant was that the standard number, when they come of age is 80, for infantry, for cavalry 40.

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You mean on Huge units settings? Because on large, 24 (+1 extra for the general) is the standard. Which is once again odd, since 24*2 is not 40.

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Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

You mean on Huge units settings? Because on large, 24 (+1 extra for the general) is the standard. Which is once again odd, since 24*2 is not 40.

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That does seem strange, I have never played on anything less than huge, and the cav bodyguards always come of age with exactly 40 men.

Im playing on large and have 42 men in unit (including general)

Its really nice to play with KH: i made an expedition via sea on Italy and get Taras for Hellens, Romans pushed me back with their pedites extraordinari, triaries and principes and it wasnt worth to fight all the time for one town. Now is around 121BC and reforms are finally made; right now im recruiting some pikemen and ill strike Romans again. Masilla revolted to me (and that involved me in war with Romans for second time), and so did Halicarnas (so my ex-allies, Ptolies, are pretty angry and its a matter of time when they will take it back- one full stack of their elites recently captured Sardis from AS and now im doomed there :skull:): im planning to invade Asia Minor after destroying the Romans (o, ill chase them to the moon if ill have to) :whip:

And one interesting thing: in my game, Parthians are, after Ptolies, the most advanced faction! They captured all AS territories and grab Seleukeia (Ptolies have Babylon): AS capital is somewhere near India (cant remember the name), and they have 2-3 cities left :egypt:


:clown:

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Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

Now is around 121BC

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You are:
a. playing your campaign for a lot longer than you've been on the forums
b. playing EB for 10-12 hours per day
c. playing without activating the script

Edit: I just saw you've started your KH campaign on 04-13 (or 04-12, depending on which time zone you are in).
So let's remove possibility a,
lets adapt possibility b to 34-36 hours a day,
and let me ask you again: are you sure you are playing with the script on?

Probably meant 212bc

The parthians can never take the AS Teritories by 212, so he must be at 121... ^^

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Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

Im playing on large and have 42 men in unit (including general)

Its really nice to play with KH: i made an expedition via sea on Italy and get Taras for Hellens, Romans pushed me back with their pedites extraordinari, triaries and principes and it wasnt worth to fight all the time for one town. Now is around 121BC and reforms are finally made; right now im recruiting some pikemen and ill strike Romans again. Masilla revolted to me (and that involved me in war with Romans for second time), and so did Halicarnas (so my ex-allies, Ptolies, are pretty angry and its a matter of time when they will take it back- one full stack of their elites recently captured Sardis from AS and now im doomed there :skull:): im planning to invade Asia Minor after destroying the Romans (o, ill chase them to the moon if ill have to) :whip:

And one interesting thing: in my game, Parthians are, after Ptolies, the most advanced faction! They captured all AS territories and grab Seleukeia (Ptolies have Babylon): AS capital is somewhere near India (cant remember the name), and they have 2-3 cities left :egypt:


:clown:

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Would be nice if you could post a screenshot from your campaign map. Sounds pretty interesting.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

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Originally Posted by seienchin

The parthians can never take the AS Teritories by 212, so he must be at 121... ^^

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It is very possible for them to do that.
My Arverni game 224bc
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/pictu...pictureid=1208
My Romanoi game 219bc
https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g...5/Image1-3.jpg

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Originally Posted by bobbin

Probably meant 212bc

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Youre right, it is around 212.. i have typed wrong year... sorry...

Oh, yes, i have one nice screenshot already:



https://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6348/romad.jpg

:birthday2:

:smash:

:2thumbsup:

Hehe, I just did the same in 268 BC of my newly-started Eperios campaign. Romani besegied my Capua with a fullstack of mainly Principes (6)with substantial amounts of Triarii (4) and some Hastati (2), Rorarii (3), Accensi (2), Roman Citizen Cavalry (2) and a General's Bodyguard.

I had three 40-men Illyrian cavalry, two 27-men Bodyguards, 80-man unit of Levy Phalangites, 2 100-men units of Illyrian Levies (the crappy spear ones), plus four 50-man Hoplitai Haploi. Basically a depleted Eperiote army with a bunch of cavalry. I still won, with pretty low casualties of 40 men, mostly from the pila that the Romans unleashed on me in the beginning.

Seriously, Roman are ridiculously easy to defeat. Those three units are now down to 26-31 men each with silver chevrons. Every battle of mine is a quick enemy charge at my extremely thin (two rows) ragged line of levies followed by my own generals and Illyrians charging at the backs of the engaged enemy infantry, routing all of them at once, routing full units from the first charge.

So anyway, I defeated the Romani Capuan expedition and suddenly I found an empty Roma. No units inside. Only a single unit of Principes blocking the road to the "Eternal" City. I quickly dispatched the units with my two general's bodyguards and entered Roma, unopposed. After which I promptly massacred the population :grin: It felt wrong, I still have guilt on my shoulders, but I needed the money to get me out of debt. Not to mention Capua, whom I forgot to massacre, has 11.000 population and the people are not happy, at 70% happiness on low tax level.

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Originally Posted by Zett

Would be nice if you could post a screenshot from your campaign map. Sounds pretty interesting.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

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Here you are. Its the only screenshot i have from this campaign and its taken around 230bc. Anyway, now (its about 210), Parthians are much stronger, and Romans live somewhere in Austria and Switzerland, and are something like "romanobarbarians" :laugh4:


https://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4493/worldp.jpg

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Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

So anyway, I defeated the Romani Capuan expedition and suddenly I found an empty Roma. No units inside. Only a single unit of Principes blocking the road to the "Eternal" City. I quickly dispatched the units with my two general's bodyguards and entered Roma, unopposed. After which I promptly massacred the population :grin: It felt wrong, I still have guilt on my shoulders, but I needed the money to get me out of debt.

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Its ok. Any reason is good enough to do such a thing to the romans :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Lovejoy

Your starting Spartan generals have the spartan bodyguard. All other generals, including Spartans (born or adopted) will have the other bodyguard.

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( Awwwww ..... )

But mooooooooooooom I want my Spartan Generals to have Spartan Bodyguards for $11.99 .

Respect my authoritah !

S**** you guys I'll play Epeiros .

Satyros

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Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

Its ok. Any reason is good enough to do such a thing to the romans :2thumbsup:

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Yeah, but you know, the city gave up without a fight since it was utterly devoid of a garrison. What is more barbaric then slaughtering a defenceless city which honourably and promptly surrendered to you, especially if you are a Hellene and claim to be above such barbaroi as the Celtoi, Germanic tribes, and Romaioi?

I just had to keep the public order (Capua is a mess right now) and I had to have money to pull me out of the red. Which is why I massacred them anyway.

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Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

Yeah, but you know, the city gave up without a fight since it was utterly devoid of a garrison. What is more barbaric then slaughtering a defenceless city which honourably and promptly surrendered to you, especially if you are a Hellene and claim to be above such barbaroi as the Celtoi, Germanic tribes, and Romaioi?

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Aimilios is right there. That is why Demetrios, even after killing so many Romaioi by the sword, decided against massacreing Rome. He instead enslaved half the male population, double as many women and children and is planning to expell even more (especially the nobles). But hey, he didn't mercilessly kill them! Even offered them to turn to the Hellenic side, which the majority of Plebeioi did BTW. They weren't happy with the so-called "Republic" anyway. At least Demetrios gives them something.

Maion

there's no turning to the celtic side. If yer an enemy... You die! you go to hell and you die! haha!

I'd rather die than become a Keltos, believe me. Hell to your so-called "hygiene" by using primitive forms of soap, which is nothing more than a blob of fat and salts anyway. Plus, I'd never bathe in ice-cold rivers or sleep with my fellow soldiers. Oh no, I'd rather die a Hellen than go to your side.

Maion

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

...or sleep with my fellow soldiers. Oh no, I'd rather die a Hellen than go to your side.

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Yeah, little boys is where it's at.

Everybody knows that everything coming out of ancient Greece promotes homosexuality and pederasty, after all. :smash:

actually the whole "homosexuality-amongst-Greek-soldiers" angle is being waaaaaay overplayed...
sure there must have been some such symptoms especialy amongst Spartans, or the Thebean sacred band who lived confined in their prison-like-camps for years and years... but most other hoplites took regular leaves and experienced extensive periods of peaceful citizen-life cultivating their lands and the presence of plenty womanfolk around (no need to get physical with males ) ...
the whole "mature protector-young protege" thing is widely misunderstood... those societies were highly antagonistic,competitive and violent so young guys seeked the guidance and protection of mature men to better cope with the everyday challenges of politics and war ... this reationship was not of "sexual" nature but rather a means to train and teach and ensure societal emancipation... power and not sex was the underlying principle of these practices ... eastern societies still give great importance to similar ideas of "Godfather" and so is "Mentorship" in academia...

Sir, I do believe your sarcasm detector is in need of new batteries.

well no i actualy realised you were joking...i just felt the need to mention sth abt it bc some people may get the wrong idea i 'm itching to write sth -besides we're all history geeks here,no???

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sth abt it bc

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O.o?!?

Something about it because... jeez, way too compressed

Clearly an example of Doing It Wrong. :confused:

I don't know , even though I am mostly commited to KH and Epeiros , I must say that I have a fondness for the celtic factions . It's much more rewarding to beat the crap out of the romans as any of the celtic factions , e.g. the real objective being not letting them cross the Alps when playing as the Aedui . I am currently considering ( playing as the Casse ) to send an expedition force to the Roman peninsula by sea , or even better to march through allied Gallic lands to support our brothers in the struggle against the Romaioi . I say kill them young and leave no relatives alive to seek revenge .

When I play as KH and Epeiros however I tend to rely on Thracian shock troops and reward ( roleplaying ) them with long years of allied city governments and local autonomy in many cases , I only install client rulers only when in dire financial need ( btw good job EB team on the new client ruler system ). Too bad that "local autonomy" doesn't give some loyalty bonuses too .

So I couldn't really choose a side between the unwashed degenerates and the washed ones .

Of course you can always go to the steppes where people really like their animals . I mean really .

Satyros