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And Governor good hair fires one across the bow
Who's the Crazy secessionist now? All 24 million of us!!!! I'm very excited. Secession is better than sex.
Dear God this is awesome. "Texans know best" AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH YES YES YES YES YES
Yall need to watch the video!
OH DEAR GOD MY THEARD TITLE
"Millions of Texans are tired of Washington, DC trying to come down here to tell us how to run Texas."
So tempted to sig.Quote:
Who's the Crazy secessionist now? All 24 million of us!!!! I'm very excited. Secession is better than sex.
'at's it. I'm moving to San Antonio in 4 years. Enough of this California teabagging. At last... a State that knows how to be a Republic.
Seconded, Kurki.
I do have to say, though, that the 10th says nothing about secession.
Meh... read it a while ago, sounds like BS. Texas isn't actually going to secede.
Translate that to Spanish and go tell it to Mexico.Quote:
Texas isn't actually going to secede.
Meh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
Wait... whothehell let Arkansas in? 'Em guys are gonna need some learnin'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Professor Panarin, IMO is watching too much american TV; but I won't be surprised much if a split occurs, at least electorally, along the lines he guesses - I'll give him that.
.Quote:
Meh
https://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4805/1824.png
The US is not going to split apart over this, many more political crisis's were postponed or ended with peaceful agreements then with violence in the US.
Who suggests violence? We're civilized nowadays. Courts rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
States assert. The Union replies. Last time it took a call to arms. But this is 2009. All we gotta do is follow the the 1787 document. Or decide it no longer applies.
The link Fragony posted, suggested the US was going to break apart. I don't think the Fed gov would let the country split apart without a fight. The only reason the Soviet Union dismantled peacefully was because the change was coming from within the gov itself. If instead of Gorbachev there was a Stalin like figure, I think the Soviet Union would have stuck around further.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
I take that (excellent) point.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
And only (weakly) counter: some americans have not forgotten how they got to where they are. (Man, was that not some mangled grammar?)
That a very large 'many' of them reside in Texas might be material, I counter. I suggest that peaceful protest, sanctioned by courts, eventually, backed up by an armed population with determination to self-govern, and a list of grieveances going back 4 generations or so...
might be more successful at divorcing itself from a Union if thought counter-productive to the aims of its own people - from which it draws its power.
I'm sorry but for some reason I am very tired right now, could you clear up that grammar a bit or rephrase your statement, because I don't think I am getting the point you are trying to convey.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
EDIT: Are you saying that peaceful protests, use of courts and a list of motives to secede would work better instead of violence for...(here is where I get confused at your statement, sorry.)
Worked real well last time.:dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Before the Civil War (which is what we call it in England) people were much more likely to say "The United States are .....": afterwards they tended to say "The United States is .....". You have had 140 years of thinking of yourselves as a single country. True, people in the US remember (some of) how the country started, but there is all the history in between too including at least four wars since 1865 fought as a unified country, a county that has become the world's only superpower. It is a lot to give up. In addition the Civil War casts a shadow still, doesn't it? Isn't some of this talk of secession a vestigal wish to re-fight the battles of the 1860's? And with this in mind, black Texans might be ambivalent about the notion of states rights given what that represented in the past. Finally, as I said, it did not work out well for Texas last time.
I know that Texans are like Yorkshiremen - their part of the country is distinct from the rest and much better but not many of either would want to declare independence and even fewer would take up arms to back up this independence.
If this is like a distant relative dragging up intimate family quarels then apologies.
A Texan is a Texan, black, white, or brown. Besides I'm just happy were rumbling about states rights. I know in my heart of hearts were not going to secede but I love the loaded language.
:us-texas: Vive le Texas! Vive la République du Texas! :us-texas:
Behold the Place Vendôme, Paris:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
It was commissioned by the Sun King, Louis XIV. Build by Mansart, the same architect who designed Versailles. For centuries, it has been one the most prestigious squares in Europe. The very centre of Parisian style and luxury.
Napoleon chose this square as the site for his monument. The colonne in the centre was constructed of the molten copper of the Austrian cannons after the stunning victory at Austerlitz, its bas-reliefs relate the story of Napoleon's Austrian conquests. Napoleon himself stands on top.
Chopin enchanted Europe's elite in his house on this square. Napoleon III, when he revived the Empire, chose this square as his living quarters. Chanel has it's headquarters here. The iconic style of the new 20th century female was designed here. The world's most famous perfume, Chanel no.5 - still the only perfume for a lady - was designed after the square, following exactly its elegant octagonal dimensions:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Louis XIV, Napoleon, Chopin, Napoleon III, Chanel. They constitute the grandeur of a civilization. But in this world, nothing is greater than Texas. And Grandeur recognises Greatness when it sees it. That is why, while the rest of the world did not even recognise Texas as an independent republic, France considered it her duty to offer her former colony Texas his rightful place under the sun. Right on the Place Vendôme, as a gift to the new republic, Texas was granted an embassy. Its first. Paris knows that Greatness deserves only the best, so Texas was gifted the most prestigious adress of all too: Place Vendôme 1.
https://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9940/texx.png
Embassy of Texas
In 1842 this building
was the seat of the embassy
of the republic of Texas
By the treaty Franco-Texan
of 29 September 1839
France became the first nation
to recognize the republic of Texas
as an indpendent state between 1836 and 1846
Paris is the judge of who is deserving of a nation. If you have a prestigious embassy on the Place Vendôme, in the centre of world diplomacy, then who are Uruguay or Siam to say you are not a proud independent republic?
Today, the former embassy is a prestigious hotel. One can sleep in the offices of the Texas ambassador. The very room where I and Strike's sister will spend our honeymoon, forging a renewed Franco-Texan alliance, after I have forged a sixth République, and Strike has made himself president of a new independent republic of Texas.
:us-texas: Vive le Texas! Vive la République du Texas! :us-texas:
Governor Perry? The Texas governor is called Perry?Quote:
Gov. Rick Perry today joined state Rep. Brandon Creighton and sponsors of House Concurrent Resolution (HCR) 50 in support of states’ rights under the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
Please tell me he is homosexual. Then I'm going to invite him over to declare Texas independent in Paris. You know, just for the headlines: 'Texas independence declared by gay Perry in gay Paris'
Are you sure? I don't think this is true of Yorkshiremen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
He has the best hair in the state but then again you can shine a turd but at the end of the day it's still gonna be a turd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Perry is a tyrant. I can't wait till we elect the Jewish Cowboy.
Tejanos and Anglo-Texians fought and bled together during the revolution. I am confident in us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Gloucester
Remember Goliad!
Yeah, I know they won't secede -- but if we can get a bit more of the attitude that "these United States are" and a good bit less of "the United States is" back into our government we WILL be better off.
Louis:
Cool beans about the embassy! That I didn't know -- but I like.
I predict texas will go democrat in the near future.
Texas is the GOP's answer to California's auto-Dem electoral votes. Without that check, we may as well paint the White House blue.
Hopefully Texas will still respect my citizenship. ~D
I love the idea, of course.
kind of off topic, I find it hilarious that the DHS report says that single issue voters, particularly those that are opposed to unchecked immigration and abortion, are at risk for radicalization and that they should be watched closely. Absurd.
The Republicans created the patriot act that eroded the percieved rights of non-americans. The Democrats will ridicule the act in public but use it to erode the real rights of American citizens in private. One hand :daisy: the other
Oh, there's plenty in the Patriot Act that affects U.S. citizens.
5 years and 1 day after the effective date of the new immigration policy that Obama and the Dems are seeking to have made the new law of the land on this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Wonderful gesture by the governor of Texas and like minded states issuing similar measures & proclamations.
Yes, they were so adamantly opposed to the Patriot Act and Dept. of Homeland Security yet the Democrats have made zero efforts to repeal the former and dismantle the latter.Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
Barely three months in office and the current administration is already using the Dept. of Homeland Security to further its own ends...
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...rpc=22&sp=true
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...cals-on-right/
Here's an update...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ing-extremism/
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
Clearly their definition of 'the radical right' leaves a great deal to be desired. Embittered veterans? Disgruntled old people? Angry kids who wear controversial t-shirts? Looks like the stupidity and alarming short sightedness of Bush and the NeoCons is paying dividends for the Obama administration.
Things are getting uglier by the week...
Never liked the patriot act... I propose we rename it the 'I hate America act' and then see how much support it gets...
With regard to the Patriot Act et al, that's precisely why you should never allow governments more powers over anyone's rights, most especially if you happen to agree with the government (ie, they're your party).
The lot you don't agree with will one day come to power, and there's precious few examples of governments giving back powers, whatever they said previously.
I don't remember where the patriot act gave the government the power to carefully watch people based on their support for abortion rights or any other legitimate political opinion. Are you saying that because we passed a law regulating international and border issues as they relate to the domestic security that we are now responsible for the government using the situation to make conservatives into potential terrorists? I don't remember making liberals into terrorists or suggesting that non-violent activists should be watched or stigmatized for their beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
The advice is good, but misplaced. You are essentially attempting to blame the victim. the Admin is goingto up the ante and they are responsible for that, just as we were responsible for the patriot act. To each his own blame.
Have a looky. Especially pay attention to Title II: Surveillance procedures.Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
It's a law in desperate need of amendment. What amazes me is that it authorizes "roving wiretaps," "sneak and peek" warrants, and any number of other questionable practices, and it still wasn't enough for President 43. They had to go in for warrantless wiretaps. But hey, when's the last time the government abused a power, hm?
I have some vague hope that the Dems will take time to trim back Patriot, but not a lot of hope. They're having a hard enough time just releasing the torture memos, meeting massive pushback from Congressional Repubs and the more retrograde elements of the intelligence community. I can only imagine how Repubs could demagogue the issue if Dems tried to "remove protections." The ads write themselves.
I fear that the Patriot Act is to national politics what the Rockefeller Laws are to New York politics. (That is to say, desperately in need of reform, but nobody wants to take the heat for doing so. Note that the Rockefeller Laws have survived on this basis for 36 years.)
While most of the Patriot Act was originally intended to address foreign terrorist threats, by defining potential domestic sources of unrest as potential terrorism threats, a number of the provisions in the act allow the government to scutinize U.S. citizens more closely.Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
You may recall my earlier posts (year + ago) stating my opposition to making the provisions of the Patriot Act permanent. That's one reason why.
Texas governor says secession possible
This is like My birthday, Christmas, Halloween, Thanksgiving all rolled up into a fine aged whiskey then poured into my mouth by Jennifer Love Hewitt and Jesse Spencer. Both of whom are naked. And we're about to DO IT.
Come to think of it I don't want to secede. I just want Obama to have to say something about this in a national interview/press conference. I'd be happy with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
It will be funny. He wants to be Lincoln, eh?
What good will that do?!? :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
You would be happy if Obama paid lip service to something he either doesn't give a damn about (especially since this ain't Fall 2010) or something he probably views as being nothing more than a nuisance? In three short months the man has proven he excels in making empty promises and blowing hot air. Even if he is asked about it by a member of the press he'll probably say, "I think it's wonderful that these people are expressing their right to assemble and engage in free speech, yada, yada, yada.... next question."
Or better yet, "Folks, given that we're in Mexico right now I'd rather not talk about that particular issue at this moment in time. I would much rather deal with the pressing issues of trade, immigration reform and the dire consequences of the drug trade and drug cartels and their negative impact on the citizens of Mexico's border towns... blah, blah, blah."
I don't get it, you're yapping for a steak but would be happy just to get a stale dog biscuit plumbed from the dusty, crusty, cushiony depths of the couch?
Oh the Texans... always causing problems to their countries.... :wacko:
:yes: It's a no lose situation for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spino
Of course, Glenn Beck choosing the Alamo for the tea party was laughable.
Beck is a liability and a hackQuote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Texas won't do anything. Next question.
Agreed, His choice of venue was the only thing worth noting.Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
Says the scared non-TexanQuote:
Originally Posted by KarlXII
Seccession will not occur. Texans aren't that stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
You really don't know the kind of people you are dealing with here. I know old folks who think a SSN is the mark of the beast and refuse to deal with the "census man"Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlXII
I'm considered smart and learned. Just consider that I'm in the upper %tile. Now imagine everyone below me.
I love this place, I really do, but just remember.When we kill the mentally retarded the collective IQ of Texas goes down.
The last thing they need is little blonde immigrant who speaks American funny calling them yeller.
According to Einstien human stupidity is (probably) infinite, so I try not to rule out too many possibilites...
I do wish to clarify, I am not calling Texans stupid people, I am simply commenting that nothing will become of this "New Seccession" and that the Texan people are not going to make that decision because they know the consequences of it.
First off Texas is a big place, with a largely agrarian base, and a developing High-Tech Industry Sector. This is both a blessing, and a curse. Most of the Ranchers in Texas depend on Federal Ag. Money to actually prevent them from raising more cattle/crops than they can actually grow, this does two things makes the Rancher's bank account fat and happy which makes them fat and happy, with Texas's independence those Rancher's lose that money, which forces them to raise more Cattle/Crops to supplement the lost income.
Because of the way the American Grocery System Works, we're at a point where holding grain or a meat supply isn't necessary. Because there isn't a feasible supply system in place, and a demand that cannot be met food prices skyrocket, and the logistics of actually putting Food from the Ranches and Farms onto the people's dinner plates becomes problematic, simply because there is more need at this point than what the Rancher's can produce. Texas would have lay out plan way in advance to meet this demand before succession were possible.
Second, Most of Texas's industry is owned by Corporations that actually operate outside of Texas. Because Texas relies pretty heavily on the taxes that these industries generate, they would have to squeeze them for every penny that they could initially to offset the debt accrued because they no longer depend on any sort of Federal Spending. This would make the Conglomerates very unhappy, and moving industry can be done in a relatively short amount of time to a place that would charge them less for running their business.
Texas would have to offer Tax incentives to make sure these industries don't leave, and so replacing the lost revenue would further burden the everyday joe on his taxes. I know Taxes and Texas.. heh... don't get along well. This could result in a large displacement of the city populations who have to pay MORE taxes, and get fewer benefits than what the US government can give. That is the only place that might get ugly.
Fortunately, if Texas manages to keep taxes on industry lower than what the US or Mexico allows, you could see a lot of foreign investment, and homegrown industries rise up. However, this can take years... even decades to pay off. I'm thinking Texas wants a quick fix and concessions made by the US government, and certainly isn't ready to take the leap into independence.
It should be noted that the former SSRs are still struggling to this day to catch up, Texas I think has a better position than these nations do, because it doesn't need to transfer from a planned economy to a market economy, but its still going to be a very hard upward slog.
It pleases me to see that Texas, like its former colonial motherland France, uses this civilized means of receiving financial tribute from the small and insignificant members of its Union.Quote:
Most of the Ranchers in Texas depend on Federal Ag. Money to actually prevent them from raising more cattle/crops than they can actually grow, this does two things makes the Rancher's bank account fat and happy which makes them fat and happy
Respect. :bow:
Like father like sonQuote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Of course not, it's just political posturing. However statements like these are most welcome and are necessary to keeping the federal government 'honest'. The more people are made aware of the Federal government's abuses of power & horrendous waste the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlXII
I think that the whole idea that secession is on some people's lips is proof enough that it is always a possibility. I read the headline that 75% of Texans would vote to stay in the US. What about the other 25% - on the fence or for secession?!
Remember what the numbers FOR gay marriage were in the 1980's? Now look at them today. It was inconceivable then, even for MOST gay people. Once the word is let out seriously by some, they have the opportunity to push for it and make it more popular.
The concept has always been sound - we entered into a union, why can't we leave it? In a nation with no-fault divorce laws and divorce numbers, is it really a stretch that we wouldn't sympathise with such a reasonable idea?
I'm against secession because I am a patriot, but if the situation were to ever turn more seriously, I'd be left wondering which half was the real America; the one that believes that government shouldn't extend the dole or its domestic power and that marriage is an institution uniting the sexes/all humans should at least be given a right to life - or the side that simply flies a familiar flag?
Actually if you were a patriot then you would be all for secession provided it was on the grounds that all strong and reasonable objections to the violations of the Constitution and states' rights were being ignored or dismissed by the federal government. The senators who fought against Julius Caesar & Marc Antony in defense of the Republic were far more patriotic than those who supported the latter for no other reason than to justify their conquests in Gaul and declare their numerous populist acts as being done in the best interests of Rome and its people.Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
Personally I think that if you support your country for no reason other than to support your country, regardless of whether it violates its Constitution or laws, makes you an unapologetic nationalist.
I'm not a nationalist, I'm a patriot. I beleive in the tenents that our governemnt adheres to. I'm not convinced that we can't get it back on track. When the day comes that the governemnt is off track for keeps, then I won't abandon it - it will have abandoned me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spino
It would be foolish to show intent to betray the US in any way, particularly in writing on the web. If you are to do it, just do it. Talking about secession as a citizen of New York will get you nowhere. If I wanted to seceed, I'd move to Texas and talk about it there.
Well I'm quite a bit older than you and understandably more pessimistic (I'm a hardcore realist at heart). I believe the government has been in the process of derailing the entire country off the tracks for the better part of the last 40 years, with the last 20 bearing witness to the overall process taking on a dramatic increase in velocity and scope. I truly believe the chance that the current system can be reformed is decreasing dramatically with each passing year. Based upon what I have seen of the generation that has been in power for the better part of the last 20 years, not to mention the behavior of my fellow Gen X'ers, there is a glaring lack of education, awareness and appalling low level of zeal with which the average American guards his/her rights and freedoms (economic freedoms included). The system has gotten so bad because we allowed it to get that way through our ignorance and inaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
The fact that both our elected leaders and the general population are largely apathetic to the glaring warning signs flashing by ought to tell you something. Sure, people scream and complain about things they dislike but it has done nothing to change the outcome. Voting becomes an meaningless gesture when one's choices are a mild variation on a theme. Voting becomes a pointless exercise when the elected willfully ignore the laws or the will of the masses. Violence becomes an answer when non-violence fails to produce results.
Plainly put, I do not see some miraculous turnaround that will scale back the size and scope of the Federal government, implement a sensible monetary policy, cease the wildly irresponsible spending and pay back the jaw droppingly enormous debt. Externally speaking we've been appallingly enthusiastic about joining and fueling international monetary entities like the IMF with our own treasury (or in this case, debt), a situation which only worsens the outlook. The crux of my argument is that the system cannot be reformed by the same people who created the problems or exacerbated the ones that existed in the first place. Basically nothing short of a miracle is going to stop this train's wheels from jumping off the tracks. The question is not whether it will happen but when and how badly things will get when the whole thing derails.
The discussion of the threat or intent to secede is a far cry from actually doing so. Why limit your options by taking the option completely off the table? What did Jefferson tell Madison in that famous letter?
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer/letter.html
Quote:
...Societies exist under three forms, sufficiently distinguishable: (1) without government, as among our Indians; (2) under governments, wherein the will of everyone has a just influence, as is the case in England, in a slight degree, and in our states, in a great one; (3) under governments of force, as is the case in all other monarchies, and in most of the other republics.
To have an idea of the curse of existence under these last, they must be seen. It is a government of wolves over sheep. It is a problem, not clear in my mind, that the first condition is not the best. But I believe it to be inconsistent with any great degree of population. The second state has a great deal of good in it. The mass of mankind under that enjoys a precious degree of liberty and happiness. It has its evils, too, the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject. But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing. Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. Even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs.
I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.
On an amusing note, in response to all of Governor Perry's secession talk, the Texas House of Representatives has found a novel way to express their feelings:
House members virtually wiped out Gov. Rick Perry's office budget Friday in order to help veterans and the mentally ill.
With little debate, the House on a voice vote approved erasing 96 percent of the nearly $24 million that budget writers had recommended for Perry's office operation over the next two years.
Some Democrats cast the House's move as a rebuke of the governor's recent comments about Texas seceding from the Union.
"That's the headline: 'Two days after governor says we ought to secede, House zeroes out the governor's budget,' " said Appropriations Committee vice chairman Richard Raymond, D-Laredo.
However, most Republicans said they went along simply to speed debate of the state budget – a debate that could last into Saturday.
"At the end of the day, the governor will be fully funded," said House GOP caucus chairman Larry Taylor of Friendswood.
Perry spokeswoman Allison Castle said, "I think they're just playing silly games."
But idle talk of secession is deadly serious. I see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
That was a load of nothing.
Well, after the secessionist bluster, looks like Perry is going crying to mama after all. Suddenly the Union is useful, I guess.
Gov. Rick Perry today in a precautionary measure requested the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) provide 37,430 courses of antiviral medications from the Strategic National Stockpile to Texas to prevent the spread of swine flu. Currently, three cases of swine flu have been confirmed in Texas.
But, why, Governor? Surely a quasi-independent nation-state like Tejas has no need for the CDC and its evolution-grounded biological theories. You want to be your own nation? Go for it. Jerk.
Do'h si do'h Guv'nor! :laugh4:
It also appears that Governor Perry is also okay with Washington money so long as it's for his campaign. Seriously, where does Texas find these secessionist idiots?
Rick Perry has railed against Washington, but when it comes to campaign cash, the governor has raised far more than rival Kay Bailey Hutchison from the nation's capital.
Perry has collected $2.7 million from Washington since becoming governor – four times more than Hutchison's $670,000 from Washington during the same period, a Dallas Morning News analysis finds.
Dough si dough Guv'nor! :laugh4:
I never said he was smart. :laugh4:
Looks like somebody done showed him the money. :wink:
Old Hat.
Please seccede from the union, PLEASE. Will make EVERYONE'S life easier.
2 USA's would be pretty great.
This is wildly unfair, but still funny. Houston, we have a solution.