The other side of the mirror

I never ask my mother before joining the army.
Never ask before volunteer for paratrooper training and not even before to go in wars.
But these days I am on the other side.

My favourite nephew joined the Army like his grand father, father and uncles.
Thanks to Nicolas Zarkozy he will probably go to Afghanistan.

Nothing I can say, I would probably done the same at his age. His father, my brother did it. I did it. My father did.
But my first reaction was: He can't do that... Watch the 9th Company, think... Then I appeared to me That I never really knew what my parents thought about what I did.
Nothing really to comment.
I was just wanting to know if some experinced the same mixed feeling of... I don't know...

You can't put an old head on young shoulders. Wisdom only comes with age. If you're lucky.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

You can't put an old head on young shoulders. Wisdom only comes with age. If you're lucky.

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Talking about Afghanistan and head on shoulders rearrangements literally gave me the creeps :freak:

That is how life is, people make good and bad choices and being young or old does not really make a big difference in the grand scheme of things. We all make mistakes and some we will make when young and some when old.

All the best for your nephew Brenus. You cannot curb the enthusiasm of the young to do brave and yet stupid things but you can always hammer some good reasoning and thinking into their skulls so that if he does go to Afghanistan he will do just fine.

There is nothing wrong with joining the military. Best of luck to him.

Nothing wrong with the principle of joining the military, but serving in Afghanistan and trying to achieve a goal no one can define isn't really something to be happy about.

On the other hand, I may be biased. I'm a pacifist and unless my country/family/anything else I hold dear is directly threatened, there's not a thing in the world that would make me take a gun and use it to kill another human being...

Good luck to your nephew Brenus. I know that I would worry very much if a person close to me got sent there...

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There is nothing wrong with joining the military.

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True , however there is something very wrong with putting your life in the hands of an idiot politician for them to throw away on a political whim or in the interest of cutting short term spending.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

True , however there is something very wrong with putting your life in the hands of an idiot politician for them to throw away on a political whim or in the interest of cutting short term spending.

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Fair point. But then you can do the same by getting ill and going into a UK hospital. :wink:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Fair point. But then you can do the same by getting ill and going into a UK hospital. :wink:

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You cynic, you! :beam:

Rather than turning this into a thread about Afghanistan, I'll just say: good luck to your nephew Brenus.

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Fair point. But then you can do the same by getting ill and going into a UK hospital.

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Could be worse , it could be an Irish hospital

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Could be worse , it could be an Irish hospital

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Politicians spend on our hospitals? :wink:

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Politicians spend on our hospitals?

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Of course they do , after they close them and decide its a prime piece of land for their latest personal tax dodge swindle.

It's funny you bring it up Brenus (best of luck and pluck to your nephew).

Thinking back, I didn't consult my family either in my teens/early twenties, just presented them with 'done deals'.

Yet I expected my sons to consult me. And the oldest did (well, sort of: he never asks me "What do you think?"; rather he says: "I gonna do this, or that." Then I ask "Is that a question?", LOL.) Still, it's better than what I did: "Oh, btw, I'm in the army", "Oh, btw, I'm getting married".

On putting one's life in the hands of poli's with dubious scruples and motivations: being drafted kinda solved that issue for me initially; then I served under 5 different CinC's voluntarily, finding that their politics didn't change my life as a soldier very much, only the geography of where I'd serve.

Come to think of it, I didnt ask my parents either...

I would however expect my future son to ask me!

Wierd how the world works...

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

True , however there is something very wrong with putting your life in the hands of an idiot politician for them to throw away on a political whim or in the interest of cutting short term spending.

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It is freely done, it is his choice as an adult, and as a result it is his place, and not ours, to decide if it is right or wrong.

My point is not if Afghanistan is a war to fight. My point is not is my nephew does the right things. He made his choices like I did, or his father did.
It is more about this strange feeling inside me.
I made my choices and took my risks. I told people I was free. I never really question my familly about my adventures...
I do respect my nephew's choices. I would probably do the same.
It is difficult to express. I somehow understand my familly's feeling better for the choices I made.
And I've get some questions about my own choices as well...
And another nephew (English this one) was toying with the idea to join the UK Army few months ago...
I remember when awake in a hospital, after having been hit by a rocket or mortar shell. The first think I remember was the eyes of my brother looking at me, with the horror light in it. When I thought "I am in deep ....".
The pain we imposed to our loved one by our choices... And our arrogance, necessary arrogance which help us in our choice, this perhaps selfishness to carry on.

I can't disapproved what he is doing without disapproving what I did.
But I can't stop to think "don't go, it's dangerous".

Actually, it's kind of nice when your parent made questionable decisions when they were young. I remember countering my father when he got angry at me, pointing out that my irrational act was way less life-threatening than his at the same age.

Having a parent who never made a terrible mistake would be hell.

Il n'y a de bon dans l'homme que ses jeunes sentiments et ses vieilles pensées.

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It is freely done, it is his choice as an adult, and as a result it is his place, and not ours, to decide if it is right or wrong.

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Bollox .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Bollox .

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Hardly.

There comes a time when every young man or woman needs to decide what they will do in life, and how they will live it. You raise them the best way you can, to the best of your abilities, and then one day you must let them go. You can't live their life for them or protect them from life's ups & downs anymore, even though your paternal instincts may be sounding the alarm. Be there for them when needed, give your honest opinion if asked, and pray like hell. One can't be afraid to live one's life, to strive and sometimes fail. That's life, and those of us who have been to a few rodeos have all experienced this to some degree. We were all young and invincible once. The only difference now is experience, and the only way to get that is....making your choices and having the courage of your convictions to accept the consequences.
It is what it is. I shall keep your nephew in my prayers, Brenus.:bow:

I'm with Hosa. People need to forge their own path in the world. The problem lays in when they must take the reigns from their guardians; ideally, sooner rather than later. Of course, the world isn't an ideal place, and people don't always use good judgement. I would like to think that I'm beyond my "young and immortal" phase, but really I'm not. I still don't take as good a care of myself as I should, I still don't take the care that I should, I still don't plan as much as I should. But learning is a part of the journey, and I hope to do much more of it. We all make mistakes; we just hope that there is an opportunity to learn from them, so that they may be sucesses in the future.

I know not whether this will be a mistake or not, Brennus. Regardless, decision of such a nature as this are bound to breed new learning experiences. Hopefully your nephew makes it out well.

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Hardly.

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
doubleplusbollox
The fact that he is an adult and is making his own choice has no relevance whatsoever as to how others view his choice .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
doubleplusbollox
The fact that he is an adult and is making his own choice has no relevance whatsoever as to how others view his choice .

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Absolutely, otherwise all the discussions in the Backroom would be wrong, I mean should not exist. After all politicians are adults and make their own choices so who would we be to discuss them? :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

The fact that he is an adult and is making his own choice has no relevance whatsoever as to how others view his choice .

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It is his place to decide if he made the right choice, and it seems very wrong to ridicule him or to disapprove of his situation without actually knowing anything about the situation.

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It is his place to decide if he made the right choice, and it seems very wrong to ridicule him or to disapprove of his situation without actually knowing anything about the situation.

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That doesn't work because it is my descision freely as an adult to write what I wrote:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

That doesn't work because it is my descision freely as an adult to write what I wrote:2thumbsup:

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Two things wrong with your logic there. :book: :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman;2221656;responding to "there's nothing wrong with joining the military"

True , however there is something very wrong with putting your life in the hands of an idiot politician for them to throw away on a political whim or in the interest of cutting short term spending.

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Since we can be reasonably certain that any political movement will eventually drift away from its own ideals (most have) and that a fair percentage of all our politicos will become corupt or "idiots" as you imply (seems nearly universal, at least with enough time in office), then by extension we should not ever join the military.

Thus, the state can never be trusted with power.

But if we never trust them with power, they cannot accomplish anything of value.

Where does this take us?

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Since we can be reasonably certain that any political movement will eventually drift away from its own ideals (most have) and that a fair percentage of all our politicos will become corupt or "idiots" as you imply (seems nearly universal, at least with enough time in office), then by extension we should not ever join the military.

Thus, the state can never be trusted with power.

But if we never trust them with power, they cannot accomplish anything of value.

Where does this take us?

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Ireland. :wink:

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Two things wrong with your logic there

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Thats because I am using your logic which was bollox

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Ireland.

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~:thumb:

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Originally Posted by Brenus

Watch the 9th Company, think...

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You know that was just a movie, right? Yeah, it was based on real events- but only in the Hollywood sense of the word. Yeah, there was a battle on a hill in Afghanistan.... that's about it for accuracy. :clown:

Edit: From Wiki...

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The film is based on a real battle that took place at Hill 3234 in early 1988, during the last large-scale Soviet military operation Magistral. In the movie, only one soldier from the company survives and the company is said to have been "forgotten" by the military command because of the Soviet withdrawal. But in reality, the story was different.

The 9th Company, 345th Guards Airborne Regiment was pinned down under heavy fire on "Hill 3234" between 7 and 8 January 1988. They managed to stop twelve attacks by an estimated 250−500 Mujahideen. The company lost 6 men. Another 28 out of the total 39 were wounded. Two of the killed soldiers were posthumously awarded the golden star of the Hero of the Soviet Union. The unit was in constant communication with headquarters and got everything the regimental commander, Colonel Valery Vostrotin, could provide in terms of ammunition, reinforcements, and helicopter evacuation of the wounded.

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"You know that was just a movie, right? Yeah, it was based on real events- but only in the Hollywood sense of the word. Yeah, there was a battle on a hill in Afghanistan.... that's about it for accuracy..." Yes, I know. Well, it is as accurate than all war movies...:beam:
Yeah, the Thin Red Line never was as described, the Charge of the Light Brigade same...:beam:

I understand how you feel even if I can’t sympathize. It’s all about perspective. Yes, Afghanistan is dangerous; but so is crossing a street. Remember to look both ways. Your concern is justified, even expected. Hopefully he is going *to* the military and not *away* from something. Keep in contact with him.

Well, I am planning on joining the USMC when I get back home, and I have not told my ma yet. I do not live at home now, so it is not like I am her responsibility. (in fact, she has been mostly my responsibility for the last few years :P) I know that if I told her she would just freak anyway, and I do not want to tell her now just in case I change my mind within the next month. (I don't even know if they will take me with my nearly useless right arm anyway :P) By not telling her, I am at least saving myself some shame if they will not take me. It would really stink to tell my family that I am joining up, then come back rejected. :P

Anyway, best of luck Brenus, I am sure that you must be proud. And don't worry, it is just the French military that he is joining, so he will probably never encounter anything more frightening than a lace-covered snail. ~;)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Take a deep breath - STOP - notice the smiley, laugh. :laugh4:

Seriously though, your chances of dying in the military today are actually barely any higher than a civilian's.

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Originally Posted by Just Vuk Again

it is just the French military that he is joining, so he will probably never encounter anything more frightening than a lace-covered snail. ~;)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Take a deep breath - STOP - notice the smiley, laugh. :laugh4:

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I know it's a joke, and I don't mind. However, this form of mockery has become so omnipresent that it now seems to have fully replaced real history. This is a problem.


France, the UK and the US were allies during pretty much the entire 20th century - both ideologically and through varying degrees of official treaties. The UK has been slightly more populous than France for most of the century, the US from three to five times. Yet, in wars in which all three were actively fighting on the same side, France alone has lost as many men on the battlefield as these two combined. :yes:

This excludes civilian and material losses. Both hugely outnumber those of the other two combined, especially those of the US. This is the price France has paid in blood for the freedom of France and of her Anglo allies. A price, many multiple times larger than that of the US. (Britain too, for its part, paid a far heavier price per capita than the US).

So yes, French soldiers have encountered things more frightening than a lace-covered snail. More frightening than anything America has ever seen. And faced it. To a huge cost in lives, on a scale that Americans only know from their worst nightmares.

Currently, French men and women are risking their lives in missions in Afghanistan, Ivory Coast, Chad, former Yugoslavia, the Indian Ocean and elsewhere. Protecting the interests of France and of her befriended countries.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

I know it's a joke, and I don't mind. However, this form of mockery has become so omnipresent that it now seems to have fully replaced real history. This is a problem.


France, the UK and the US were allies during pretty much the entire 20th century - both ideologically and through varying degrees of official treaties. The UK has been slightly more populous than France for most of the century, the US from three to five times. Yet, in wars in which all three were actively fighting on the same side, France alone has lost as many men on the battlefield as these two combined. :yes:

This excludes civilian and material losses. Both hugely outnumber those of the other two combined, especially those of the US. This is the price France has paid in blood for the freedom of France and of her Anglo allies. A price, many multiple times larger than that of the US. (Britain too, for its part, paid a far heavier price per capita than the US).

So yes, French soldiers have encountered things more frightening than a lace-covered snail. More frightening than anything America has ever seen. And faced it. To a huge cost in lives, on a scale that Americans only know from their worst nightmares.

Currently, French men and women are risking their lives in missions in Afghanistan, Ivory Coast, Chad, former Yugoslavia, the Indian Ocean and elsewhere. Protecting the interests of France and of her befriended countries.

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lol, I was only joking. I am aware that French people risk their lives. I was only playing on an overused cliche. :P

I know you were and no offense was taken. ~:grouphug: