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I finished my Macedonian campaign recently, I have another one on-going (Romani), but I'm getting tired of the West. I played Romani, KH, Maks and Carthage. Now I want to try one of the Eastern factions. Where is a good place to start? Is it Pahlava or Hayasdan, or may be Bactria? AS is Eastern, but I think it's more or less like Macedonians - phalanxes, Hetairoi, etc.
Bactria is also quite Macedonian like, just with an eastern Touch. I would go for Hayastan, but Pahlva are also fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius
I thought about Hayasdan campaign too, they seem to be a very interesting faction to play. But what would be the best strategy for them? Attack the AS as soon as the Pahlava attacks them, or try to be at peace with them for as long as possible and grab those rebel cities?
As I generally do not like blitzing, especially those unfortunate Seleucids, I would recommend to stay in peace with them (and make peace with Sauromatae too) as long as possible and try to unite those "rebel" provinces in Caucasus first, thus opening way for Pan-Caucasian reforms, which in turn make your eventually inevitabe confrontation with AS much easier and role-playing-wise more elegant. :2cents:
Do not forget to read through this guide and try to be true to the spirit of it in your gameplay progression.:2thumbsup:
Baktria or Hayasdan would be my suggestion, Hayasdan is less phalanx-hetairoi combo. More conservative eastern (maybe Persian) warfare.
Baktria is the mixture of Alexanders army, indian troops and local units. I have never played them but I think they will be quite challenging.
If you prefer a completely different fighting style you can always try Pahlava or the harder Saka Rauka.
~Fluvius
The nomad factions like Pahlava or Saka are almost completely different from Western civilisations, so be warned.
Baktria plays really like AS on the Battlefield. You dont get the indian units somewhere outside india and that makes them useless most time of the game, so you fight like AS just with even more Levies. With Hayasdan you need Force Diplomacy or to blitz AS.
Hayasdan. Quite different type of warfare, since they are not phalanx-based (unlike AS, and Baktria to a lesser extent).
Baktria. They carry with them the dream of Megas Alexandros.
I've started a Hayasdan campaign. Working on the first set of reforms now. By the year 269 I control Egrisi and Kartli plus homeland Hayasdan of course. The economy is making a small profit, but I think the AS are going to hit me very soon. They have 1/3 stack closing in on Mishketa. So far they didn't attack and are just moving around, but I'm sure it'll happen soon. I have an army capable of defeating it, but if they start sending more troops it'll be a problem. I hope Pahlava and the Ptolies will give them some beating so they won't be concentrated on me that much. I'm also preparing a couple of spies to try and cause rebellion in their neighboring provinces. Time will tell if it'll work.
The only problem I've had is the nearest AS cities are closer to the capital, it depends on where AS moves there capital though. I've tried a few campaigns as Hayasdan, pretty cool unit roster, AS usually moves the capital to Seleukeia or Ekbatana, so they just lower the tax rate :wall:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius
I had success having the eastern cities rebel like Hekatomplyos, and Propthasia, but doesn't help much since they are farther east then where I wanna go.
even though I like playing as AS it gets frustrating micromanaging so many cities :whip:
It's more fun for me to build up then to maintain an empire.
Good luck!
You have played all Westerners I've played so far as well :beam: I was in a very similar situation as yours, and decided to play the Baktrioi. They are a very interesting faction, but again there was this unmistakable "Makedonian" feeling I get when playing phalanx-based factions. The Hai are quite tough AFAIK, as are the Pahlavans. My advice, would be to try the Baktrioi for a while, get a good feeling of the Eastern terrain, then choose the Pahlavans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius
Maion
I'm with Maion...I played alot of Roman-based western campaigns and then wanted something different. I think the Baktrians are a great introduction to eastern warfare. You have many options available to you early in the game (Saka, Pahlava, AS, Indian territories to the east) and you have many different units at your disposal. You really have to customize your armies to your enemies, and it's alot of fun -- with a significant challenge in the beginning to keep a powerful AS off your back and to generate a viable economy. I'm at 235BC in my Baktrian campaign and new challenges still appear.
With a "Hellenicized" eastern campaign like this under your belt, you can more easily go full-bore into the Saka, Hai, Sauromatae or Pahlavans. Enjoy!
Play Pahlava. Its really frustrating sometimes: especially when you beat Baktria and they spam you with 2-3 fullstacks while having one town left (AI doesnt have just money, but endless population in one village too :laugh4:)
I've already started my Hayasdan campaign. I'll see how it goes. If it'll be to tough, I'll try Pahlava. I think they are a bit easier.
Yeah, i was thinking the same about Pahlava in comparison with Pontos, but ive found Pahlava much more difficult than Pontos (which is "nigh-impossible" like Hayasdan, while Pahlava is "very challenging")..Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius
Btw witch circumstances are taken in mind when difficulty-descriptions for EB factions were made?
Pahlava is practically only achievable if you blitz the AS early on. You can always retract back or just trash the cities and return home if you don't want to create a huge empire really quickly
Well, the campaign did not went as planned. The Seles made me their top priority. They've already sent half stack to my capital (some pantodapoi, akontistai, a general and a kleruchoi phalanx). I defeated them, but I see more and better troops are on the way. There's army of 3x Kleruchoi, 1x Pezetaeroi, 2x Pantodatoi phalanxes, 2x generals and some lesser troops. I don't think I'll have the answer for that. Main problem is that the trade income with them gone and I don't have enough mnai even to retrain the troops.
Don't know where it went wrong. Probably I should have stayed allied with them and not with Pahlava when war between them broke out.
Another question - is the only way to successful Pahlava campaign is to blitz? I personally hate blitzing, I prefer more slow and steady approach - conquer a province, build some infrastructure and go forward. Not talking about sitting in one place for years of course, but I certainly don't like "conquer half the AS in 2 years" approach.
pahlava is very easy for me
if you know the magical word : "Blitz!" :laugh4:
but if you play too much with an infantry oriented/dominated faction it will be hard to micromanage your HAs in the beginnings. so play some custom battle to learn how to master them.
currently: 271 BC 7 cities
270 BC 9 cities
I had conquered 3 cities in just 272 BC. after you pass the 10 15 cities you may have no finacial problem, my estimation -10 one full stack of HAs 10-20 one full stack and one reserve army so you have the luxury to lose a battle but until 15 - 20 cities you have no option lose. (ı do not count the retreat of HAs when you run out of amno against phalanxes)
with my mods I can revive the achaemenids at the exact time Alex built his empire. but I like roleplaying (not based on history but based on logic)
AS is decaying and has many weak cities so she cannot afford full stacks until you enter mesopotamia.
but of course the choice is yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius
O, yes, o yes: you have to blitz with them, just to survive.... :yes:
I'm enjoying my current Hayasdan campaign a lot. I'd prefer it if AS left me alone for a while though.
Bartix.
But seriously, no matter which faction you go with, I suggest using Force Diplomacy since AS will pick the stupidest and most illogical times to attack you.
To be honest, I think that the Hai have the potential to having a greater advantage than the Pahlava. Hayasdan is located very near to some of the most important cities of the Seleukidai: Antiocheia, Seleukeia, Babylon, Ekbatana, Persepolis. Take these cities from them, what remains? Some minor holdings in Mikras Asias, as well as the Hellene-low settlements of the east. It's more difficult for the Pahlava.Quote:
The Hai are quite tough AFAIK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hax
And i must add to this:
1) Hayasdan can use Pontic barracks when it gets their cities: Pahlava must build its own barracks, and a tone of expensive buildings to get reforms, even to get basic H/As :sweatdrop:
2) Until you reach Seleukeia and Babylon: all that you conquer with Pahlava is just little villages, without anything: so you must build them from the start with a ton of money which you dont have! As further you go with Pahlava, more AS elites will come to smash you: but as far as you get, less capable troops you have to beat AS elites :sweatdrop:
3) Pahlava is really tough... AI is a human-killer-machine :no:
I'm currently at 265 BC with my Pahlava campaign. I just managed to capture Persepolis and several towns with mines, so money is slowly pouring in. I cut the AS in half, but they are starting to send better troops - I already had to destroy a couple of Pezhetairoi and I see some Kleruchoi on the way. I still can't afford to recruit a large army, so I rely on cheap HA's FM's and cheapest mercs. But I think that Saka are probably planning to attack me. I hope it won't happen as I already have AS to worry about. What makes the situation worse is that AS seem to be winning against the Ptolies :(
I also think there's something about reforms I don't understand. In one of my cities, I've built migration->pastoralism->settled community->reformed pastoralism->reformed settled community. However I still don't see and of the "normal" MIC's that should appear according to "reformed settled community" description.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius
Yes, in my campaign it happen too: while i was smashing AS, they just moved into Asia Minor (Pontos=:skull:) and did very well against Ptolies: they even manage to made naval invasion near Alexandreia!
And yes, concerning that complex Pahlavan building tree:
1) be sure you have large nomad market in settlement you want to reform (some people say that small market is enough: i really cant remember how it was in my game, but large market is 100% ok)
2) Before you build reformed pastoralism, you GOT to have Warlords horse herds build before that (w.h.h. you can build when you build elite horse herds) if you mess up this order, no reforms will happen.
Here is order to build:
1) military occupation
2) migration
3) pastoralism
4) (large?) nomad market
5) settled community
6) warlords horse herds (requires elite horse herds)
7) reformed pastoralism- do not build this before warlords horse herds!
8) adv. settlement
9) settled aristocracy
10) and, finally: ref. parthian government
And one more thing: when you build settled aristocracy in any town: you will have to build brand new mics in order to get units: that means that even your h/a's would not be available even if you have them before the settled aristocracy (:no:)
And, finally: you must have at least large town to have reforms :yes:
I wish you luck :2thumbsup:
Thanks for the info, Jebivjetar. I'll have then to destroy adv. settlement and reformed pastoralism to get reforms back on track. I hope rebuilding in right order will trigger the reforms.
I suggest you to use console command (process_cq). Its allowed in this case... i think :clown:
You need large market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebivjetar
I'm deep in a Hai campaign too and they are just great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius
They've got everything except Sarissas and Eles: HA, Heavy Ha, Cataphracts, Heavy Inf(Swords and Shields), and a great choice of Archers.
Strategy: Sooner or later the grey death will attack YOU!
seconded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebivjetar
I tried to wait 250 BC for accuracy once while I had sent all of my army to north AS assaulted my beloved nisa that had no wall then what I did restart a campaign and revenge ! İf you do not attack AS she will believe me!
for beginning period an army of "5 - 6 Family members and rest HAs in a full stack" even can kill argyrespides :hmg:
The Hai is definately my favourite faction, and by some distance too! The unit roster, the very tough and useful general unit, the reforms as well as the difficult starting position all contribute to making it really exciting.
You've gotta be ready for the AS when they come for you, and they will. I mostly fight them with four to six Scythian Horse Archers (or as many as I can afford) lead by a couple of family members. This highly mobile force can take on most AS half stacks easily but may need support when fighting larger forces. I Got my faction leader up to six command stars leading this type of force and fighting his way through Phraaspa, Ekbatana and later Karkathiokerta before he died a very unfortunate death when charging a phalanx unit in the rear, many heroic victories later.
I've now established a solid empire from which to launch a serious offensive to take the rich cities of Seleukeia, Babylon and Susa. Mazaka was pillaged, ruined and gifted to Pontos to let them worry about AS forces coming out of Anatolia while Arbela has already fallen and Edessa has been left a smoking ruin...