EB Online Tournement Battle Report Thread

Welcome to the Europa Barbarorum Online Tournement Battle Report Thread. Please keep this to only the posting and discussion of replays and tallying of results. Discussion about rules and other stuff should be carried out in here.

To look at the rules or sign up please go here as well.

The rooms are:
EBOT_0
EBOT_1
EBOT_2
EBOT_3
EBOT_4

Passwords are all EB.

PLEASE JUST SELECT 3 ROOM RANDOMLY TO JOIN. MATHMEMATICALLY THIS WILL RESULT IN EVERYONE BEING ABLE TO PLAY EACH OTHER

Romani: 23/27
Agrippa 6-7 = -1
ACS 10-6 = 4
Mithick666 2-2 = 0
spiritusdilutus 5-11 = -6
Lestat 0-1 = -1

Aedui: 6/1
NeoSpartan 6-1 = 5

Saka: 7/4
Antisocialmunky 7-4 = 3

Carthage: 7/12
darius_d 2-5 = -3
Jebivjetar 2-1 = 1
m0r1d1n 3-6 = -3

Arche Seleukia: 22/10
French-Legionaire 1-3 = -2
Fluvius Camillus 6-0 = 6
Flavius_Belisarius 2-3 = -1
JinandJuice 13-4 = 9

Pontos: 13/5
tsidneku 13-5 = 8
Apázlinemjó 0/0

Makedonia: 2/1
Maion 0/0
Alexander 0/0
Antigonos 1/0
Sir Karati 1/1

Getai: 0/1
Maris: 0-1 = -1
mountaingoat 0/0

KH: 2/20
Alsatia 0-13 = -13
"Hiero" 2-7= -5

Sweboz: 0/0
Phalanx300 0/0

Hayasdan: 3/3
Vartan 3-3 = 0

Saba 4/6
Parallel_Pain 4-6 = -2

Casse 11/10
Gabeed 11-10 = 1

Averni 0/0
The Celtric Viking 0/0

Good luck and have fun. This runs to August 1st :)

EDIT: I will eventually compile all the replays up here like: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ght=tournement <- If anyone wants to see some epic games(and a 40K Macedon of DEATH) go here.

I bring you two matches today! :yes: Links to the replays are in the titles, in case people don't notice.

Game #1: Flavius_Belisarius vs tsidneku

This was a pretty epic battle. Despite our starting points, we arranged it so that we could meet at the top of the hill for a relatively level ground battle. Flavius' archers/slingers tore through half of one of my heavy cavalry before I realized it before the engagement. Pontos won the battle after its horse archers slung around the rear to bring down the Makedonian aux troops and cavalry.

Game #2: Flavius_Belisarius vs tsidneku

We chose Grass Flatlands this time so it would be completely level. Neither of us minded that there was no flora, we were both Hellenic based factions so surprise didn't matter as much. I busted out the Galatikoi Tindanotai this round. I was surprised to find that Flavius only fielded 6 phalangite units, it was backed with 4 slinger units to try to counter my cavalry. A double-sided flank turned into a heated battle on all three fronts. Eventually, Pontos broke through the flanks and routed a good number of his troops. However, he seemed to have clobbered my phalangite line. I have no clue how that happened -- any commentary/explanation is greatly appreciated. I was worried that I had blundered and lost this one when I realized my phalanx line was dead, but I managed to pull a victory out of the bag.

This is the first battle I fought with the new rules and, as I expected, my army was mauled very, very badly. I lost more than double the men I was able to kill. With the fewer men, my cavalry actually lost the fight on my left and the superiority of numbers on the side of my enemy made sure I was promptly surrounded. Also, the bad quality of my phalanxes made sure they routed quickly upon being surrounded. Not to mention the riddiculous +1 chevron that my enemy (ACS) used that gave them *even* more morale and attack. As if the very high morale of the Romans isn't enough to begin with. And the irony was ACS told me it was a "nice" and "good" game. Yeah right.

As such, I ask you to consider raising the cap to 40,000 again and abolishing the +1 chevron rule. I am ready to present you with even more evidence for these rules being riddiculous enough for us Hellen-players.
http://www.filefront.com/13949992/undefined

There's actually another matter. I, due to these restrictions, was unable to field good enough infantry to match my enemy instead having to field skirmishers. My Kretikoi and Akontistai were no match for any of ACS's infantry. There should be restrictions in the ammased infantry, forcing players to actually field some skirmishers instead of purely infantry and - this goes for the Romans - those riddiculous numbers of Extraordinarii that ate my cavalry.

flavius he must have the tests to accuse a user to have used the upgrade on weapon and armor

Quote:

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Originally Posted by _Agrippa_

flavius she must have the tests to accuse a user to have used the upgrade on weapon and armor

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There is no "she" in this Tournament, I can assure you of that.

Maion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

This is the first battle I fought with the new rules and, as I expected, my army was mauled very, very badly. I lost more than double the men I was able to kill. With the fewer men, my cavalry actually lost the fight on my left and the superiority of numbers on the side of my enemy made sure I was promptly surrounded. Also, the bad quality of my phalanxes made sure they routed quickly upon being surrounded. Not to mention the riddiculous +1 chevron that my enemy (ACS) used that gave them *even* more morale and attack. As if the very high morale of the Romans isn't enough to begin with. And the irony was ACS told me it was a "nice" and "good" game. Yeah right.

As such, I ask you to consider raising the cap to 40,000 again and abolishing the +1 chevron rule. I am ready to present you with even more evidence for these rules being riddiculous enough for us Hellen-players.
http://www.filefront.com/13949992/undefined

There's actually another matter. I, due to these restrictions, was unable to field good enough infantry to match my enemy instead having to field skirmishers. My Kretikoi and Akontistai were no match for any of ACS's infantry. There should be restrictions in the ammased infantry, forcing players to actually field some skirmishers instead of purely infantry and - this goes for the Romans - those riddiculous numbers of Extraordinarii that ate my cavalry.

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I have played following the rules and you question me in this way.
I am very disapponted of your response.
I won because I played better than you.
Yes I use 3 units of extraordinarii, but did you think you are historically right by using 4 or 5 units of cavalry in makedonians army(like you do often).
So if I can t use my melee infantry, what can i use?
I haven t phalanx, many good heavy cavalry, i haven t horse archers, i haven t many spearmen.
So what can I do in your mind?
Nothing, I must leave you win...
Be right with me, romans have only melee infantry, without this I can t playing against any hellenic factions.
We must respect each other, I have never attacked you in this way.

This is the battle: http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/3198511046/vsmaion.rpy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aulus Caecina Severus

I have played following the rules and you question me in this way.
I am very disapponted of your response.
I won because I played better than you.
Yes I use 3 units of extraordinarii, but did you think you are historically right by using 4 or 5 units of cavalry in makedonians army(like you do often).
So if I can t use my melee infantry, what can i use?
I haven t phalanx, many good heavy cavalry, i haven t horse archers, i haven t many spearmen.
So what can I do in your mind?
Nothing, I must leave you win...
Be right with me, romans have only melee infantry, without this I can t playing against any hellenic factions.
We must respect each other, I have never attacked you in this way.

---

First of all, I never attacked you. Even a rookie would win this battle against me. This is intened to proove ASM that the rules need to be re-checked. You're a good fellow, I've told you that before. Nothing against you.

I've never used 5 units of cavalry. I always use 4 units of them, since they are the only thing that can give me a victory over armies like the one you fielded.

Also, I never said you shouldn't field only Extraordinarii. I said I couldn't counter them because I didn't have the additional Hetairoi unit that gave me the opportunity of winning cavalry battles. I was doomed to fail in this one, especially since you had so much more infantry to protect your cavalry with.

The Romans didn't only use infantry. They had many Socii in their armies IIRC, and this doesn't only count the Extraordinarii. You used absolutely no skirmishers, which gave me a clear disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that you seem to neglect, mainly the +1 chevron that gave your units iron discipline (if the Romans don't have enough of it to begin with) and other bonuses as well. I was in a clear disadvantage and I knew it all along, I just wanted to proove ASM the rules have to be re-checked.

ASM, give me back my mnai! :wall:

Maion

I tell you this battle didn t count for tournament, it was only friendly match.
But you give me this response?
Take a look of those you write... isn t it really an attak?

I m sorry to talking like now, i want play many battle against very good opponent like you...

I respect you and other.
But you can t talking in this way.

I know it was a friendly match, I don't take any battles (wether Tournament ones or not) too seriously. Also, sorry if it sounded offensively, because honestly it wasn't intended to be so. I just want to show ASM what I had ranted about in several posts and he simly dismissed everything.

EDIT: As a matter of fact, I want to play more battles against you to have some concrete cases that support my claims :charge:

Maion

Placemarker post. - Win/Losses updated

@Maion - Yeah you were pretty doomed with that army - you didn't have a dominant cavalry arm against Rome or atleast you didn't use it. You're right about that. You also had the misfortune to fight ACS who is fairly good with infantry. Plus he picked the no-missile rome army up from me so you can thank me for that, buddy. I think its a little too early to tell. I'm going to wait for a a few more Hellenic replays before I open this issue up again. But the thing is that its hard to nerf Rome with money on both sides. If you don't give Rome chevrons, then it will always pick elephants... :-\

Also I disagree with the assertion that the Greeks can't field equally large infnatry armies. Maks are a little disadvantaged since they don't have the hordes of Asia with them or the hordes of Illyrians that their neighbor has though. Its something to consider since Maks are very middle-high range faction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Good luck and have fun. This runs to July 1st :)

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i thought it started on 1st?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mountaingoat

i thought it started on 1st?

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Runs all through the month of July 2009.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Placemarker post. - Win/Losses updated

@Maion - Yeah you were pretty doomed with that army - you didn't have a dominant cavalry arm against Rome or atleast you didn't use it. You're right about that. You also had the misfortune to fight ACS who is fairly good with infantry. Plus he picked the no-missile rome army up from me so you can thank me for that, buddy. I think its a little too early to tell. I'm going to wait for a a few more Hellenic replays before I open this issue up again. But the thing is that its hard to nerf Rome with money on both sides. If you don't give Rome chevrons, then it will always pick elephants... :-\

Also I disagree with the assertion that the Greeks can't field equally large infnatry armies. Maks are a little disadvantaged since they don't have the hordes of Asia with them or the hordes of Illyrians that their neighbor has though. Its something to consider since Maks are very middle-high range faction.

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I believe you also failed to read this was a friendly match? You seem have counted this outrageous victory as valid for the Tournament. Do you want more proof that the Romans will be able to beat me over and over again with those rules? Fine. But if you don't listen and bring the cap back as well as abolish the +1 chevron rule of at least the Romans, I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Tournament because it takes all the fun away.

Take a look at the battle I fought with ACS, the last one. I won onoly because he didn't use his massive remaining troops (in comparison to my tiny remaining infantry force) to counter my exhausted cavalry. If he did, he would have won. And guess what? No damn chevrons. If he had them, I'd have gotten mauled 100%.

Also, why in the name of God do the Romans have to spend every single penny they got left?

Maion

Yeah, i*ve been watching this battle between Maion and ACS for about 5 minutes and than i quit because it was clear from the start what will happen there. I totally agree with Maion: some rules must be changed: with these rules now you have weak and crippled Makedonia and, yes, this kind of battles are not a) fun b) challenging (because Romans by default have answer for any Makedonian action).

And, ACS, just to avoid any misunderstanding: im blaming the rules and just the rules.

After the two great battles i had with tsidenku we played two more. One of that i lost again, but i dont have the replay. Pls post it tsidenku :)
But i have the replay of the last one, which was my first i won

http://www.speedyshare.com/906761542.html

I was Macedonia like always and he pontus. This time i decided to put my general in a reformate Pezhetairoi because in my opinion the macedon heavy cavalry isnt their price worth, maybe im just too noobish, but im quite sure that the hetairoi and the Hippeis Thessalonkia are way to expensvive. With the phalanx advantage i won the phalanx fight very fast, and instead of using expensive cavalry i spent money on hoplitais to defend the back of my phalanx. He permantly shot with his cretan archers in the back of my phalanx and my hoplits which was very leathly. Great game again! Im very glad that i won at least one time. :)

Edit.: Im quite new here but could it be that the roman infantery is way to cheap? Even the levied units of macedonia are more expensive than principes which are quite strong. And the extraordinarii cavalry seems to be equal strong as the macedonian hetairoi altough the hehtairoi are much more expensive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

I believe you also failed to read this was a friendly match? You seem have counted this outrageous victory as valid for the Tournament. Do you want more proof that the Romans will be able to beat me over and over again with those rules? Fine. But if you don't listen and bring the cap back as well as abolish the +1 chevron rule of at least the Romans, I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Tournament because it takes all the fun away.

Take a look at the battle I fought with ACS, the last one. I won onoly because he didn't use his massive remaining troops (in comparison to my tiny remaining infantry force) to counter my exhausted cavalry. If he did, he would have won. And guess what? No damn chevrons. If he had them, I'd have gotten mauled 100%.

Also, why in the name of God do the Romans have to spend every single penny they got left?

Maion

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<annoyed>Well since NEITHER OF YOU made it obvious that it was a friendly match until 2 posts below the replay I initially added the game. But then I just forgot to take away the win while getting rid of the loss so there. MAKE IT OBVIOUS ON THE FUTURE PEOPLE like putting 'test match' as a title or something...</annoyed>

Everyone else gets to spend all their money so why are the Romans not allowed to? Bescause of their discounts? If you remove the ability to chevron that's not going to fix the problem. What you're going to see are weird Roman armies fileld with pedites, extraordinarri/campanians, and elephants, 5 phalanx, etc. The Romans will spend their money on other crap if they can't spend it on slightly pimped out legionaires for around 250+mnai each. If you didn't notice, you did alot of damage to them on your right flank in game #1 for practically the same price as those legionaires with Celtohellenic hoplites and Thracian skirmishers.

I'll do some tests with the Maks closer to the weekend. I might move the money back to 40K.

I do admit that I did underestimate the Maks being as ridiculously high end as they are. NONE of the other hellenistic factions are like that. They all have a cheap levy option. It doesn't help that they have a levy phalanx 150 mnai more than most of other.

<annoyed>It would have helped more if instead of just point out and complaining about the problem, you played a game like this before the tournement started like you said you would and like I told you that you should to prove your point. You didn't have to wait until I actually started so I had to change the rules after its started. I can't do all the testing for this tounement! AND SOME HELP ANYONE ELSE WOULD HAVE BEEN APPRECIATED. I'VE HAD TO DO ALL THE TESTING AND SERIOUSLY I CANNOT. I CANNOT. I CANNOT.</annoyed>

I'm tired of changing this stuff. I'm not going to get rid of the 1 chevron - that is not the problem, more than likely, it'll be a 12 limit of heavy infantry for ALL factions and a limit of 8 limit on HI for steppe army compositions. If anyone wants to test this against the Romans, PLEASE DO SO SINCE I WON'T UNTIL THE WEEKEND!!!! There are 5 Romans in the tounement and 7 hellenics in the tounement. If only 2 or three of you played 1 or 2 battles, it would be enough. DO IT.

If you can't beat a heavy infantry limitted Roman chevrons or not with a full 5 cavalry, 6 phalanx, 6 infantry, 3 missile army...

Why dont we make the heavy infantery of rome a bit more expensive for online playing. Its not hard to change some values in the export descr unit file.

OK, since I see no motivation and willingness of changing the rules (nor any reasonable asnwer as to why the Romans have to spend all their money per se), I'm afraid I will have to quit the Tournament. I truly believed it would be a fun experience, my bad it seems I was wrong. Good luck to the rest of the players.

Oh, and this decision is neither irrational nor hasty. I have pondered with the idea of quiting for quite some time now. I reached the conclusion that I would either continue blaming you (ASM) for things you aren't responsible for and press you to change rules you're not even going to abolish and keep getting my arse kicked (thus wasting my time fighting battles you're not going to check anyway), or just leave the Tournament and have a clear head and stop bothering with trying to prove something that some people (not specifically you, ASM) are too stubborn to take in mind.

Maion

well i just had 3 battles with kniva , though he was not playing as AS in any of the 3 battles .. still gg , first time i have had to slay the might beasts online :2thumbsup:

Well, good riddence. You have shown no willingness to help ot accept anything other than what you think is right. All you've done is complained. When I asked you to help, I get nothing. A magical silence that's followed up with more complaining later on. I have tried to be accomodating to everyone and willing to change the rules. What do you think these tournements just happen? That rules can be easy to come up with and balance is something that magically happens? I've put in alot of work to try and find a good balance and I WISH that someone else would have the initiative to find problems and show them. But they still have shown willingness to help - you have done nothing but complained validly perhaps but with no proof or willingness to show me.

IF SOMEONE, ANYONE posted a replay of Macedonia getting so disadvantaged AS that, I would have been more inclined to listen to you, you know? And I am. I'm going to go ahead with the Heavy Infantry limitations later this week. If anyone cares to post the replays of battles using a 12 Heavy Infantry(infantry with out fast moving) please do so.

However, I can't really say I'm happy that you're leaving. It would have been nice to have a good Mak player around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Well, goto hell Maion. You have shown no willingness to help ot accept anything other than what you think is right. All you've done is complained. When I asked you to help, I get nothing. A magical silence that's followed up with more complaining later on. I have tried to be accomodating to everyone and willing to change the rules. What do you think these tournements just happen? That rules can be easy to come up with and balance is something that magically happens? IF SOMEONE, ANYONE posted a replay of Macedonia getting so disadvantaged AS that, I would have been more incliend to listen to you, you know?

No one cares that you're leaving so don't make a big deal about it.

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Thanks for that first thing you said, ASM. That adds up nicely of what idea I have of you in my book. And I didn't want to make a big deal of it, sorry if it sounded as such. I never personally meant anything against you, so again sorry if this sounded as such. As for others posting replays of Makedonia, let's just say that nobody seems to have had any real problems so far or was too bored or unwilling to point out the weaknesses that are created by these rules.

To be honest, I believe you're doing a good job ASM. As good as you can, but for some reason you seem to have something against me and don't listen to me when I point out weaknesses in your rules. I've given you many alternatives and shared my ideas with you, but you were always too "smart" by pointing out I was either wrong or that your rules would work out so well.

Maion

Well, I asked for tests. No one gave me anything. I was just frustrated because you have no idea how much work I've put in when I said that. The reason why it seems I've had something against you is that you never gave me any proof. I tested my ideas, they seemed to work well. You said you would test and didn't show me anything. I'm jsut pissed off I overlooked something this big. I thought Maks performed better than this at this test point. I'll admit when I'm wrong but I'm not going to do so without proof. If you have a complaint. Make it valid by proving your point rather than just pointing it out ad nauseum - it makes it sound like you're just complaining and no one likes that one person that keeps pointing something out and then acts smug when the plan goes to hell. If you're really commited to improving something, then you would put forht more effort to demonstrate your idea. Prove it, that's all I've asked for.

Well let this parting be amicable. Thanks and good luck.

https://img43.imageshack.us/img43/461/monkeyihn.jpg

A wonderful start huh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Well, I asked for tests. No one gave me anything. I was just frustrated because you have no idea how much work I've put in when I said that. The reason why it seems I've had something against you is that you never gave me any proof. I tested my ideas, they seemed to work well. You said you would test and didn't show me anything. I'm jsut pissed off I overlooked something this big. I thought Maks performed better than this at this test point. I'll admit when I'm wrong but I'm not going to do so without proof. If you have a complaint. Make it valid by proving your point rather than just pointing it out ad nauseum - it makes it sound like you're just complaining and no one likes that one person that keeps pointing something out and then acts smug when the plan goes to hell. If you're really commited to improving something, then you would put forht more effort to demonstrate your idea. Prove it, that's all I've asked for.

Well let this parting be amicable. Thanks and good luck.

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I personally really understand you. Moreover its kind a impossible to make a 100 % fair balance, and even if one or two factions are stronger it shouldnt matter is, because its just a game...

But pls Antisocialmunky, dont ignore me the whol time xD Pls update the battle i posted ^^ And is my idea really so bad to make the roman infantery a bit more expensive ? Simply want answers if its crap i wanna know it !

I played two more matches with Flavius_Belisarius last night.
He has posted the last match already, a couple posts above. He was victorious in that one. ASM, please update the scores accordingly when you have a chance. It ought to be 3-1 for me, and 1-3 for Flavius. Thanks.:smash:

Game #3: Flavius_Belisarius vs tsidneku

This one was extraordinarily close. I snuck by with a victory with some effective cavalry charges to route his remaining forces. I think the victory was decided when his general fled from the battlefield.

Oh, that must have slipped in as I was posting the checkpoint. My bad. It is credited but tsidneku will have to post his win.(Edit, good - I'll update later today when I post the scoring checkpoint.

And yeah their heavy infantry is ridiculously cheap but time and time again, I have seen the Maks take 1 experience Roman armies from the last tournement at 40K just because 3 Companions and 2 Friends have a bad tendency of killing all the Roman Cav they can field and just having a field day with what's left of the infantry. It was quite even as the final tally showed(Maks won 1 more than the Romans :-p and I only beat Irish because of that ridiculous cav battle in the woods + phalanx exploit and I beat Gabheed because I managed to kill his general out of pure luck). I didn't realize that Maks had such a big problem fielding decent armies. I did some army composition testing last night after ACS posted that replay and yeah its a little tighter than for the other factions to say the least.

I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea putting the money back at 40K for good. Everytime anyone's touched it, its turned out weird. I guess its best for the overall balance but not that great for the barb vs unbarb match up... except now they can do 2 vs 1 team games and such. Sigh oh well. I'll pop in for a few games tonight to see how the Romans can be limitted other than imposing Maion's artificial mnai limit that they can't use or something. Honestly I'm not sure. I'm not convinced that the massive ACS experienced infantry army is a Mak beating force at 40K though. Heck, I played an epic game against Maion using the the experienced legion and only won because a horde of Samnites trapped the cavalry in a corner. The Maks are quite powerful if they can get their horses.

@editted edu. - This would be ideal especially since the KH are mising 2 units but it would be quite messy telling people how to do the replacement with all the complaining etc...

So Jack why don't you go ahead and change back to 40k, remove the chevron, and limit heavy inf to 12 and 8 respectively?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Heck, I played an epic game against Maion using the the experienced legion and only won because a horde of Samnites trapped the cavalry in a corner.

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Remind me when that happened exactly? :beam:

Maion

I could have sworn it was you. Maybe it was someone else? I remember it was against on of the better Mak players that wasn't IrishHitman. But yeah, I formed a triangle with my legionaires that was surrounded by phalanxes on one side. I threw my Pedites into your Thracian Skirms and Hoplites. You then tried to out flank me. I let you and draw your cavalry behind my triangle. I then lobbed all my spearmen at you cavalry and we had a running cav battle into the corner. I then ran my cavalry the hell away behind your phalanx and started charging it.

Then your cav came back and we had a final cav fight. Your general routed and my men finally surrounded your forces for the win. It was very close and its fights like that why I think that a chevroned up Rome is balanced vs Macedon @ 40K. If the Companions had managed to get around my Samnites in force, it would have been game.

I'll change mnai back to 40K tonight :-\ I rather get a game as Maks in before I do at 40K against ACS(preferably) or someone else. They are pretty much invincible if they preserve their cavalry arm.:skull:

I'll post the replay tonight. I could have sworn it was you. I think we fought another time and you were complainng about Burebista always hiding his archers in the woods. That was like his one and only trick. :-p

I played a test game against ACS at 36k. We agreed that he wouldn't use any Chevron upgrades, but I was permitted to (with what little money I had, I upgraded one archer unit LOL). It was a close enough battle, I did lose but the possibility of a victory was not nigh impossible.

I'm not sure what will happen if you bump it up to 40k and keep the current unit restrictions. I think you will find a lot more Hellenic factions upgrading their phalangites from medium-tier ones to elites or just buying more expensive heavy cavalry (for those that couldn't afford it).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

I could have sworn it was you. Maybe it was someone else? I remember it was against on of the better Mak players that wasn't IrishHitman. But yeah, I formed a triangle with my legionaires that was surrounded by phalanxes on one side. I threw my Pedites into your Thracian Skirms and Hoplites. You then tried to out flank me. I let you and draw your cavalry behind my triangle. I then lobbed all my spearmen at you cavalry and we had a running cav battle into the corner. I then ran my cavalry the hell away behind your phalanx and started charging it.

Then your cav came back and we had a final cav fight. Your general routed and my men finally surrounded your forces for the win. It was very close and its fights like that why I think that a chevroned up Rome is balanced vs Macedon @ 40K. If the Companions had managed to get around my Samnites in force, it would have been game.

I'll change mnai back to 40K tonight :-\ I rather get a game as Maks in before I do at 40K against ACS(preferably) or someone else. They are pretty much invincible if they preserve their cavalry arm.:skull:

I'll post the replay tonight. I could have sworn it was you. I think we fought another time and you were complainng about Burebista always hiding his archers in the woods. That was like his one and only trick. :-p

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Sorry, I really don't remember that. I remember trying to play you twice, but I still had that crappy Wireless connection whic resulted in the battles ending before any clash at all.

Oh well...

Maion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

This is the first battle I fought with the new rules and, as I expected, my army was mauled very, very badly.
...
As such, I ask you to consider raising the cap to 40,000 again and abolishing the +1 chevron rule.

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As you said - it was your first time game with 36K budget.
Instead of asking to change the rules now when the tournament has started, just try some more battles, improve your tactics and progress will be inevitable. See how Flavius Belisarius is doing with Makedonia.
:cool4:

Idea of coming back to 40K and abolishing chevrons it is actually come back to old balancing problems for romans and barbarians (besides it is unfair to all those who contributed their time to work with 36K budget over the last week).

If anything, I see more reason to force players to use light inf / auxilia units.
However, all results played so far in tournament should be respected.

Back to topic:

I am very proud to announce my first win in the tournament.
I was playing Qartadastim against my nemesis Romani (Polybian) commanded by Agrippa.

this is the replay:
http://www.mediafire.com/?eijfgzvwy2y
Edited: new link

PS. This is not my first battle in the tournament - the first one played with Flavius Belisarius was interrupted by his connection problems and I should rather feel relief for that outcome :)

So, when Agrippa told me he took Polybian I knew I am in trouble, just recently I also was a victim of ACS's Romani Polybian army, and I expected from Agrippa the same deadly formation.
But what I finally saw on the battlefield was actually even worse.

Agrippa brought an army consisting of just princepes, and some triarii. Plus 2 elite cavalry units. No hastati. And no archers or other soft units. All densely packed in defensive style.
I was shocked to see that, so much that I simply had no idea for my battle plan.
My Carthage army consisted mainly of good Iberian infantry, some cheap archers and 2 solid cavalry units but since hastati were fully replaced by princepes I felt this battle was over even before it started.

That's why it took so long time before the armies clashed, because I initially was on the edge of leaving the battle, having doubts if army consisting of virtually just principes (no hastati, no auxilia) is ok.
Indeed, it is Agrippa who came with his army to mine. My troops made no move forward, because until that time I was desperately trying to figure out any reasonable tactics.

However, just before units engaged in fighting I managed to do some regroupments and finally as well as much surprisingly secured the outcome of the day.

I wanted to show some printscreens so I tried to upload them to albums on my account in this forum, but apparently this upload doesnt work. If someone can prove me wrong I have some spare baloons.:balloon2:

https://imageshack.us/

I wouldn't mind doing a screenshot prize at the end of this as well.

Hi to everybody, here is the battle between me and Maris..... , my legionaries have born less badly the wave of cavalry to the shoulders has been hard....but roma doesn't know obstacles:))

replay battle download : http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=6z1gkvnlxlb

Well, I played ACS's veteran Polybian Army with a 36K MAK-ATTACK army and here's the replay:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=f...4e75f6e8ebb871

It came down to the wire. Sheesh. I'm not convinced that the Maks are unplayable at 36K but they are rather tough. Its just very hard to find a good balance between their game winning cav arm and their infantry. I dunno, I'm not sure. Hopefully some of your guys can watch this and give some opinions on balancing the Maks.

Probably one of the toughest games I've ever played and wonderfully amazing to watch. GG ACS.

Great and epic game ! Maybe mac isnt not unplayable at 36k but their at least tremendously hard to play.

Regarding the Makedonia problem: I just watched the replay of Maion vs. Aulus (the one Maion uploaded). Here are my 2 cents:

- I'm reasonably impressed by ACS's skill and patience in infantry battles :2thumbsup:.

- While Maion used a well balanced force, Aulus' army was more of an oversized kill squad :laugh4:. Meaning too few light units, especially cavalry.

- Three units of either kind of extraordinarii is too much. Additionally, if one of the players can field three units of Equites Extraordinarii, I don't see why the opponent cannot use two units of Hetairoi.

- There is a unit cost problem, which I suspect lies at the bottom of the Makedonian players' problems:
Some factions just get some troops cheaper. For example, Pahlava gets cataphracts for a lower price than Hayasdan. AFAIK the SPQR has to pay less for decent heavy infantry than other factions.

- I'm strongly against using chevrons. It screws up the balance IMO.

Dont look only at the state, there is a reason why cataphracts are cheaper for some factions. For example, the hellenich cataphracts have such a bad moral. The problem ist just because the roman infantery is so extreme cheap like you already said. A example, the leavy troops of the hellens are as expensive as the roman standard infantery in the polyiban era.

Hetairo are very expensive with 4600 money. To take more than one of them in a 36k game is possible but than you get a crappy infantery and the only chance to win the battle for you is the cavalry. ASM won against a roman player like you can watch with 2 Hetairo but it was extreme close altough he used his cavalry excellent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flavius_Belisarius

Dont look only at the state, there is a reason why cataphracts are cheaper for some factions. For example, the hellenich cataphracts have such a bad moral.

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Pahlava and Hayasdan have one virtually identical unit: the Zrahakir Netadzik/Shivatîr-î Zrêhbârân (heavily armoured HA). Their stats are identical with the exception of range, which is slightly better with the Pahlavân guys. And yet those Parthians are actually cheaper than their Armenian counterparts.
With the Romans, it is even more evident: their strongest cavalry unit, the Equites Extraordinarii, costs more than comparable Hellenistic or Eastern cavalry. So, there are definitely factional differences not directly related to the quality of the units.

Hmm... Looks like I will have to get some free time to finally defeat you all in this tournament...:skull::skull:

~Fluvius

Since I played in multiplayer, I have never played a Battle like this (note the capital B).
It during a lot, and was a true masterpiece of strategy, thanks to ASM.
It is worthy to be watched until the last second.

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/3198519044/furiuos.rpy

My mistake was to too expose my cavalry on the left side ...
thanks to this error I have lost my general too soon :furious3:

Also ASM has been shown to do the formation in a very intelligent manner.
Indeed, he has not put in the field any missile troops, and he take many levy hoplites to protect the phalanxes.
He take superior cavalry because hellenic medium cavalry is as good as my extraordinari.
But only his Hetairoi made the best work, they are still alive and have overwhelmed my last 3 infantry units.

Was very very fun, at the next ASM!
I think that I never have found anyone as strong as you in this game.:balloon2:

CHECKPOINT

It would have ended it sooner if I didn't resue my left flank. If I had let it die and instead defeat your left in detail along with those annoying cav remnants I wouldn't have had so many problems....

Great game nonetheless.

@Debate - Maks have trouble at 36K because their units cost more but are usually superior to the enemy's. It really is a quality vs quantity issue. They require alot of cash. I will paly a few more battles later to see if htey need rebalancing.

PS. FB is changing to AS so his wins/losses will be transfered there.

Won a battle against Alsatia. Here's the upload.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ow2dywyweyn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

CHECKPOINT

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Flavius_Belisarius' record should be 1-3, I ought to be 3-1. Refer back a page for the upload.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tsidneku

I played two more matches with Flavius_Belisarius last night.
He has posted the last match already, a couple posts above. He was victorious in that one. ASM, please update the scores accordingly when you have a chance. It ought to be 3-1 for me, and 1-3 for Flavius. Thanks.:smash:

Game #3: Flavius_Belisarius vs tsidneku

This one was extraordinarily close. I snuck by with a victory with some effective cavalry charges to route his remaining forces. I think the victory was decided when his general fled from the battlefield.

---

Yep true, we played four battles, i won the last one, he won three.

Done :).

what a Win!!!! a big battle all to be seen wow..., me against Alsatia.....

replay download : http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=5v9yycfn6qd

This was a battle between me (Arche Seleukia) against Agrippa (Romani).
http://www.speedyshare.com/881321519.html

At the begin the seleucids advanced to the roman army. The left cavalry arm of the selecuids (hetairoi and persian heavy cavalry) and the rigth one (Horse Archers) surround the romans at their left and rigth back. The horse archers of the hellens opend their fire on some principes, hastati and extraordinarii. The first line of the roman infantery charged into the phalangnits of the seleucids, while the seleucid heavy cavalry took down the most of the roman cavalry. Also the horse archers of the greeks took down in melee some roman heavy cavalry. After the romans had lost their most cavalry the seleucids continued doing hammer and anvil strikes on the roman back. During the battle the rigth wing of the roman infantery tried to sourround the seleucid left wing, but they were caugthed by some kelto hellinko auxillary troops and finaly defeated by seleucid heavy cavalry. After the fall of this roman troops his general died and the battle was so almost over.

gg to Agrippa, it was a great game

I've fought two tournament battles versus Alsatia. I'd say he needed to approach me with more hoplites on the flanks to prevent to counter my cavalry.

Here are the replays: both battles were victories for me.

Game #1: Alsatia versus tsidneku - victory to tsidneku

Game #2: Alsatia versus tsidneku - victory to tsidneku

Just defeated my first Romani in the tournament, Agrippa. He went very infantry heavy in his army.. no ranged mercenaries at all.

Game #1: Agrippa versus tsidneku - victory to tsidneku

I played two games with ACS. One was a victory for me, the second was one for him.

Game #1: ACS vs tsidneku - victory to tsidneku

Game #2: ACS vs tsidneku - victory to ACS

You know I've just played a few Mac battles and I have to say that their army composition isn't horrible - it about where all the other hellenic factions are minus the hordes of AP the easterners get to deploy. Instead they get more defensive options. The only problem are the hordes of HI that Polybian Rome spits out. Not sure what to do. To be honest, its not completely game breakingly bad.

I'll tally the games in a few hours or so.

EDIT: Checkpoint. Please check your updated totals.

http://www.mediafire.com/?zx1mztmjg1m


I lose against Mithick here.

http://www.mediafire.com/?kcuqmzqyezn

Here I win against him.

GG Michel,
Vartan

I always forget to save replay =(

So I guess other people will have to report. I think I lost 3 or 4 times. I remember loosing against ASM, tsidenku, and JinandJuice.

got your back there pp, here's the replay.
http://www.mediafire.com/?yydnztkzydj

battle #2 Agrippa versus Alsatia

replay download :http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d...4e75f6e8ebb871 Victory of Agrippa



nice battle Alsatia :thumbsup:

CHECKPOINT

Victory Against Saba For Me :)
http://www.mediafire.com/?e0lnznml1zw

I consider the battle against darius_d a draw since he could have ran waway form me forever. GG btw.

(I've played like 4 games owning people as Macedon so that's why I only have 1 Baktria)

In case anyone cares, current factional rankings are:
Pontos: 7 - 2 = 5
Romani: 7 - 5 = 2
Baktria: 1 - 0 = 1
Carthage: 1 - 0 = 1
Hayasdan: 1 - 1 = 0
Vartan 1 - 1 = 0
Makedonia: 0 - 0 = 0
Sweboz: 0 - 0 = 0
Arche Seleukia: 2 - 3 = -1
Getai: 0 - 1 = -1
Saba 0 - 2 = -2
KH: 0 - 5 = -5

The Top 3 players are:
tsidneku 7 - 2 = 5
JinandJuice 2 - 0 = 2
Antisocialmunky AND darius_d 1 - 0 =1

Tsidneku and Pontos are running aware with the game lol.

I had forgotten to upload this one.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ydit1tzjkzd
I won against Parallel Pain again.

BTW, how do we count the top 3? most wins or most kill/death ratio?

Saba got a win! :beam: :beam: :beam: :yes: :yes: :yes: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :smash: :smash: :smash:

Replay (hope it works, first time uploading)
http://www.filefront.com/13986451/Tourn-Alsatia.rpy//

Battle: Parallel Pain vs Alsatia

Alsatia forgot to bring ranged troops and a total commitment to avoiding a headlong engagement lost him the battle.

I think the fact that Saba got a win deserve to be in bold and underlined lol :laugh4:

battle #1 : Agrippa vs ParallelPain

victory of Agrippa

replay battle : http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d...4e75f6e8ebb871


nice battle ParallelPain :yes::yes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

I consider the battle against darius_d a draw since he could have ran waway form me forever. GG btw.

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Hello everybody.

Thanks ASM, you are a kind guy, but indeed that was a legit win for Baktria:
Baktria 1:0 Qarthadastim.

This was a 2nd full battle for Qarthadastim and so the first defeat for my heros.
Mighty baktrian hetairoi once more decided it all in the end.

What was unusual it was the lenght of the battle - it lasted really long. So how did that happen?

Baktria appeared with standard (not steppe) formation: line of levy phalanx was supported by 3 decent infantry and 2 elite brutal indian guild warriors, plus 4 scythian archers and finally by 5 cavalry units, including 2 units of famous baktrian hetairoi.

Qartadastim army was more or less prepared for that, sending in first line decent libyan heavy spearmen to keep the phalanx busy and the best iberian troops on wings to kill off baktrian supporting infantry and hopefully strong enough to repel expected cavalry charges. Additionally, punic and iberian cavalry was sent for their support. Finally some archers to counter opponent's archers. However not everything went according to the plan.

After some archers' volleys the real battle started: baktrian phalanx attacked my first line of heavy spearmen, so I concentrated my remaining infantry on my left wing (right baktrian wing) where hand combat started. Soon some phalanx units also went to hand-to-hand combat with my spearmen.

Both cavalries had some troubles to do clean and devastating charges, but eventually, after this violent beginning, when some dust dispersed, Qartadastim was left with a few infantry units and its cavalry lost, and Baktria with some reduced but still powerful cavalry squad and few phalanx units.

From this moment on tactical manouver games started - Cartaginians tried to tire off baktian infantry by marching (baktrians were exhausted and was vulnerable to get broken when assaulted) and attack the cavalry when they are alone.
Baktrians tried to engage in fight only with cavalry and infantry sent together - the situation which my infantry was trying to avoid. When my infantry was attacking the cavalry alone, they were escaping the engagement.
So thats' why my troops could walk around the map for a long time just followed by Baktrians and clashes were minor. Undoubtly, fun-killing situation but we both were too proud to admit unacceptable result of battle.

This is the replay but be warned that you do better to watch let's say "Gladiator" movie in that time - far more interesting.
http://www.mediafire.com/?32jmwymzjmh

battle 2: ACS vs Parallel Pain http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/3198535387/2touney.rpy

This is my battle against parallel pain, he is very good, but his faction give him no chance.

However GOOD GAME :2thumbsup:

Won a battle against tsidneku.
http://www.mediafire.com/?oolujkyryro
EDIT: I just watched the replay, and I honestly have to say that that was one of the most spectacular battles I've played. tsidneku's maneuver abilities with his cavalry are truly impressive. We both concentrated on small portions of the battle and left out a lot of things we could have otherwise exploited with our infantry. We also had archers shooting our own cavalry as well as the enemy's during the cavalry face-off on tsidneku's right flank. I have to say that I honestly had no idea how I won the cavalry charge.

Also had the 3rd win against Parallel Pain the other day, before he decided that he was getting his bowels ripped apart :clown:.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ngezhond0ul

Not to rain on your parade but Ligurian untis are classified as Pre-Marian Italian units. I'm not going to do anything since they are fairly similar to the Auxillary Cavalry that they get later. Even if tsidneku complained I don't think it would have mattered in the end since he barrelled into those archers, got swamped etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

...since he barrelled into those archers...

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It's actually barrel roll. :book: Trust me, I looked it up! :2thumbsup:

Ah, indeed I was gloating. It seems my emotions have gotten the better of me. I will edit my previous post to prevent any malicious feelings.

And again the sun has shined for the mighty Carthaginians!
Actually, the Iberians made most of bloody job, but well.

The 3rd battle brought victory again over Romani (Polybians) - this time under legatus Spiritus Dilutus
This was a tough battle for Qarthadastim, and indeed the result could appear opposite.

this is the replay:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jzezmtjh1md

The battle started calmly to become bloody violent in the end.
The armies slowly approached each other with Carthaginians preventively marching in wide formation to avoid excess losses from Kretikoi Toxotai.
Then all units made sure to threw their missiles and only after that all-out combat began.

While infantry fought fiercely both cavalries happened to appear on the backs of their opponent.
Punic and Iberian units made quite pathetic beginning before they started to threaten roman line, and equites romani managed to launch several charges in that time.
Some hardened iberians troops broke and this appeared as critical moment for the battle.

However, the rest of infantry did well on their side, equites romani were neutralized, and cavalry finally cleared their way for charges, and that way the victory was assured.

GG, Spirtus Dilutus.

I'm glad to see that multiplayer still thrives here (I was gone for a month)!

Gabeed! Quick, come back and smite these Romani into the ground! :smash:

You should play a factio nthath as no players right now.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ixdyozywgnt/BaktriaKH.rpy

BTW- Victory vs KH

So be it. Time for the Casse to intervene here (no one's playing them, right?). Are you all still playing 1.2, all fixes, no BI?

Edit: My Ptolies aren't taken yet, it seems.

This is my installation way: RTW+BI+BI1.6+alex+EB ; it work very well and i play without problem also with who has RTW 1.5.
This because i think that BI1.6 (like alex) update rome at 1.5.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aulus Caecina Severus

This is my installation way: RTW+BI+BI1.6+alex+EB

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Hmm, that's what I have except for the Alexander expansion. So do you use the EB for BI exe and the BI disc or do you pop a regular Rome CD in?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gabeed

Hmm, that's what I have except for the Alexander expansion. So do you use the EB for BI exe and the BI disc or do you pop a regular Rome CD in?

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no, use EB in rome.exe directory
alexander and BI is only for upgrade rome at 1.5 vesion... but it work also with 1.3+1.5 patch.

Greetings competitors!

I fougth four tournament battles this evening, against four different people.

As known, I play the mighty Arche Seleukeia!

Fluvius Camillus vs daruis_d
We agreed to fight type3 match, to come at each other.
It resulted in a victory for the Arche Seleukeia over the Qarthadasthim.

Replay here
http://www.mediafire.com/?mmutyq0w4md

Fluvius Camillus vs Agrippa
We agreed to fight a type3 match, where we attack each other.
It resulted in a victory for the Arche Seleukeia over the Romani.

Replay here
http://www.mediafire.com/?lnmzmhnyzge

Fluvius Camillus vs JinandJuice
I fought two battles vs JinandJuice, which were extremely hard for me, still I won both times. These two really are recommended to watch, epic battles in their fullest!

In battle one, I was to attack the Romani legions of JinandJuice. I barely won this fight.

Replay here
http://www.mediafire.com/?k1vmtjmzmfg

In the second battle, we switched, the Romani legions attacked me. After an incredibly hard fight, I won again!:beam:

Replay here
http://www.mediafire.com/?mmemzdyzeht

Looking forward to more challenges!!!:skull:

In short:
Fluvius Camillus (Arche Seleukeia) - darius_d (Qarthadast) 1-0

Fluvius Camillus (Arche Seleukeia) - Agrippa (Romani) 1-0

Fluvius Camillus (Arche Seleukeia) - JinandJuice (Romani) 2-0

That was all..

~Fluvius

This is truly a grim day for Qarthadastim, as two losses happened today:

First one against Romani (Imperial) by Jinand Juice,
The second against Hellens - mighty Arche Seleukeia led by Fluvius Camillus.

The battle against Romani is here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ytzbtz2qnjz

JJ skillfully took full advantage of numerical superiority of his cavalry so his charges proved to be decisive.
My cavalry was out-manouvered too often, besides infantry on my wings it seems was set too wide to deal with cavalry attacks from the back.

The batte against AS is here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?m2rtmzw2rwo

This one was quite humiliating defeat.
Qarthadastim - consequently faithful to traditional infantry warfare, avoiding phalanx style - faced this time phalanx-based army. What was impressive, AS fielded just 17 units but full of elites in every line: phalanx, supporting infantry, and cavalry (edit: except archers).

In this battle everything went wrong for Qarthadastim as much as possible. First, its formation totally messed up just before sending to fight, which prompted further problems.
Then, attack of iberian infantry on elitarian troops of right AS wing wasnt done well, some units were standing unused.
On opposite wing uncoordinated properly infantry soon was a prey for hetairoi and cataphracts.
Finally, cavalry was running around the map behind one cataphract unit and couldnt catch it, leaving infantry undefended.
Too many errors in one battle.

Congrats for JJ and Fluvius.

Won a battle against ASM
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?n5yozmmmmig

@Darius and Fluvius: great games! I really hope to play with you guys again sometime.

And Fluvius strikes again!

This time, the Arche Seleukeia defeated the Romani (ACS - Aulus Caecina Severus) in a fight.

This was a tournament battle where the Arche Seleukeia took the defensive position, the Romani attacked. The Romans well, but after a hard fight, the Seleukid Strategos took victory.

Arche Seleukeia (Fluvius Camillus) - Senatus Populusque Romanus (Aulus Caecina Severus 1-0

Replay can be found here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tymukyqytid

Looking forward to more challengers, as always...

~Fluvius

Dang it ACS, I told you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

[...]

Arche Seleukia: 2/3
HunGeneral* 0/0
Fluvius Camillus 0/0
Kniva 0/0
Flavius_Belisarius 2/3

Pontos: 7/2
tsidneku 7/2
Apázlinemjó 0/0

[...]

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsidneku

I bring you two matches today! :yes: Links to the replays are in the titles, in case people don't notice.

Game #1: Flavius_Belisarius vs tsidneku

This was a pretty epic battle. Despite our starting points, we arranged it so that we could meet at the top of the hill for a relatively level ground battle. Flavius' archers/slingers tore through half of one of my heavy cavalry before I realized it before the engagement. Pontos won the battle after its horse archers slung around the rear to bring down the Makedonian aux troops and cavalry.

Game #2: Flavius_Belisarius vs tsidneku

We chose Grass Flatlands this time so it would be completely level. Neither of us minded that there was no flora, we were both Hellenic based factions so surprise didn't matter as much. I busted out the Galatikoi Tindanotai this round. I was surprised to find that Flavius only fielded 6 phalangite units, it was backed with 4 slinger units to try to counter my cavalry. A double-sided flank turned into a heated battle on all three fronts. Eventually, Pontos broke through the flanks and routed a good number of his troops. However, he seemed to have clobbered my phalangite line. I have no clue how that happened -- any commentary/explanation is greatly appreciated. I was worried that I had blundered and lost this one when I realized my phalanx line was dead, but I managed to pull a victory out of the bag.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flavius_Belisarius

After the two great battles i had with tsidenku we played two more. One of that i lost again, but i dont have the replay. Pls post it tsidenku :)
But i have the replay of the last one, which was my first i won

http://www.speedyshare.com/906761542.html

I was Macedonia like always and he pontus. This time i decided to put my general in a reformate Pezhetairoi because in my opinion the macedon heavy cavalry isnt their price worth, maybe im just too noobish, but im quite sure that the hetairoi and the Hippeis Thessalonkia are way to expensvive. With the phalanx advantage i won the phalanx fight very fast, and instead of using expensive cavalry i spent money on hoplitais to defend the back of my phalanx. He permantly shot with his cretan archers in the back of my phalanx and my hoplits which was very leathly. Great game again! Im very glad that i won at least one time. :)

Edit.: Im quite new here but could it be that the roman infantery is way to cheap? Even the levied units of macedonia are more expensive than principes which are quite strong. And the extraordinarii cavalry seems to be equal strong as the macedonian hetairoi altough the hehtairoi are much more expensive.

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I think there has been a severe misunderstanding regarding the AS scoreboard!

~Fluvius

BTW: JinandJuice, are you somehow plotting my downfall with your fellow romans?:inquisitive: