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After a bunch of multiplayer matches, I've realized that I like using phalanxes almost as much as legionaires. I've been thinking of playing a faction that uses phalanxes (so far, I've only played the Romans, Getai, and Pahlava:sweatdrop:) but there's so many of them. Which one do you like the best?:smash:
Epeiros.:yes:
fatherland makedonia
Makedonia, of course. You get a cool blend of Hellenic and Western units, as well as getting access to Thracian elite rhompheia weilding killers.
Best of all, you be to kill off the Roman swine!
And you can get the satisfaction that can only be attained by debunking myths of Spartan invincibility. Farewell 300!
Julius is right. ecxept what he said about spartans, but oh well Maks rock, seriously Thracian peltasts and others plus some phalanxes (god bless Hysterois) is a pretty KICK ASS army. I alomost forget the Cavalry.
Personally, Epeiros is my favorite. Plenty of epic battles and fast expansion at the beginning, Phryrus as your king, elephants of course, and a nice Thracian AOR (Although Makedonia has that too, I think?) as well as an excellent starting location that provides for an interesting campaign. They also have more leeway on where you can go next, especially with regards to going west. (If I recall correctly, Makedonia needs to leave Rome alive so they can get March of Time?)
It's an excellent campaign, especially for one who likes to blitz. Elephants are fun, you can fight a large variety of enemies (Makedonian phalanxes, Konion Hellion's hoplites, Arche Seleukeia's Greco-Persian AI spam, the various "barbarian" units of the Thracian rebels and the Aedui of northern Italy, and of course Rome and its armies.) as you fulfill your reasonable victory conditions. Plenty of room for diplomacy, too, you do not HAVE to kill everyone in your way.
It seems Epeiros and Macedonia are the favorites so far. Their unit rosters seem really similar except the Epeiros can recruit Elephants, right?
Pontus. For the sheer exotic feeling, if nothing else.
Makedonia of course.
I wouldn't exactly call Pontos a phalanx based faction, though. More like a Persian-styled faction that has a couple phalanxes in its roster. Unlike,say Epeiros or Makedonia, one would not think of Pontos as being a faction that has an army that has to rely on phalanxes.
And Pontos really is a challenge, situated as it is on top of Arche Seleukeia. Make sure you are up to that challenge....I certainly found it far, far harder than Romani or Pahlava, don't know a thing about Getai. If you just want a traditional game with a faction that has phalanxes, Epeiros or Makedonia would probably be a better choice. If you want a totally different, very hard game, go with Pontos.
Epeiros and Makedonia are similar enough. Their early game is pretty different, which is due mostly to the famous elephants that allow for one-turn sieges as Epeiros. Makedonia's size doesn't really count for too much; I've looked at the AI Epeiros starting armies, and they look tough. Two elephant units, and plenty of phalanxes, if I recall correctly. Makedonia AI starting armies seem weaker. Especially because they sometimes end up fighting the Konion Hellion. (Not that I'd know how hard AI Epeiros is, I haven't actually played Makedonia). It's your choice when it comes to those two factions.
Epeiros, Epirote Heavy Cavalry is GOD: they have the punch of Hetairoi with the speed of Illyrioi Hippeis. More often than not all that super heavy cavalry is too slow and gets tired too quickly, which is lame, but as Epeiros you have probably the most maneuverable shock cavalry in the world. Even if they are still likely to underperform in 1 vs. 1 combat vs. catanks, they can quickly run away and strike at will. And they take forever to get tired too, increasing their longterm battle efficiency.
Otherwise, plenty of Illyrian and Thracian units to use, just like Makedonia. Since you have to conquer Makedonia at the start, your mid-game phalanx roster will probably not be very distinct from them. You can only recruit Pezhetairoi in Makedonian provinces at the start, but at least you get Elephantes Indikoi right off Ambrakia with a better MIC. And from the start, you also have much superior light cavalry forces ranging from Hippeis Tarantinoi to Illyrioi Hippeis, while still having access to the powerful Successor medium cavalry and heavy infantry roster.
Overall, Epeiros is a bit indistinct from Makedonia on the military composition - They have a bit of a local touch to their troops, but the distinctions are less than the similarities. On expansion, you can choose a much wider expansion based on the Mediterranean, and you also don't get much from "March of Time", so you're better off putting the Romaioi scum to death. That's what I plan to follow next in my campaign - with Italia in your hands, you'll be so wealthy that even the Seleukids will pose no problem.
Originally Posted by retep219:
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Epeiros and Makedonia are similar enough. Their early game is pretty different, which is due mostly to the famous elephants that allow for one-turn sieges as Epeiros. Makedonia's size doesn't really count for too much; I've looked at the AI Epeiros starting armies, and they look tough. Two elephant units, and plenty of phalanxes, if I recall correctly. Makedonia AI starting armies seem weaker. Especially because they sometimes end up fighting the Konion Hellion. (Not that I'd know how hard AI Epeiros is, I haven't actually played Makedonia). It's your choice when it comes to those two factions.
You're right about the Epeiros starting with stronger armies, especially the elephants and calvary units. What about late game? Which is more fun?
Unless Baktria is in, I have to say Makedonia. Great units (best phalanxes on average, good cavalry and excellent specialist troops), badass colour theme, plus their position on the map enables them to fight any other faction should the need arise.
Definitely Eperios. It is in my sig too :2thumbsup:. Their location and flavour is much to my liking. They are an underdog faction which has no history of empires/great victories (Maks, KH) nor an empire in 272 BC, unlike the Ptolies and AS. I do not know why I cannot stand Makedonia, but for some reason, I simply cannot. Perhaps it is because of my urge to create very alternate history. Makedonians already had their day. I do not know, but for some reason, I strongly disliked and still avoid Makedonians.
Baktria is another good choice, but I loathe their location. Too empty, too little history (that I know of) in the Baktrian vicinity, too unfamiliar in general, too many archers and nomads, and too little variety in general. Same meaningless city, never-ending steppe/mountains, lack of defining geographical locations/features. And really, my main grievance with Baktria is that it is on the edge of the map, where the only real solution is endless AS grind with intermittent nomad walloping. Not like the exciting and varied battles of the Mediterranean.
Northern Mediterranian is my favourite, preferably in the centre, such as the Romani and Eperios. Pontus is meh, because of its Asiatic flavour (I do not like Eastern factions) and mostly the AS grind.
The part with "too little variety" in your statement on Baktria is really odd.
Epeiros sucks in the empire phase, because its government-types are not the best. They are too barbarian. They don't have the perfect mix of Hellen culture, ferocious strength and royal appeal like Makedonia. :beam:
Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus:
Sorry, I should have elaborated. What I meant was that there is too little variety in the enemies Baktria faces, the directions of its conquest (only west), the settlements (one meaningless AS town after another with same Pantodapoi Spearmen/Phalanx and archer spam), lack of defining geographical features (Mediterranean Sea with all its affiliate bodies of salt-water or even the Atlantic for example) - for Batria it is endless deserts, steppes, with a bit of mountains sprinkled in between.
The part with "too little variaty" in your statement on Baktria is really odd.
And anyway, most of the other variety problems I have already mentioned. Baktria is a splendid nation in a lousy place. Unlike the hyper-central locations of Eperios, Makedonians, Koinon Hellenon, and even the Romani.
Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus:
Precisely why I like them. They are the ideal mix of "barbarian" and Hellenic in my personal opinion. Makedonia has strayed far from its wild roots, and after Alexandros and subsequent Diadochi, it is just another one of the many, with very little of its past days of a tribal culture. Eperios still retains the spirit of the fierce barbarian warriors, it is not yet corrupted with the "comforts" of "civilisation".
They are too barbarian.
Just as the Aetolian and Achaean Leagues were when Romans arrived at Greece after the Second Punic War. Still retaining their fighting spirit, unlike the somewhat spoiled Makedonians and thrice more decadent Greeks, who all but abandoned their citizen militias in favour of mercenaries, the Qarthadastim way - which leads to a predictable ending of a loss. Even Hannibal knew this, which is why he chose to rely on regional indigenous recruits, mainly the Iberians, not independent mercenaries.
kh cause soon enough you will discover the marvellous throkithai :smash:
O Fatherland of Glory,
Vergina sun shines bright!
Sons of Alexandros,
All Hail Makedonia!!!
Truth in Father Makedonia,
Home of Megas Alexandros!
Glorious shine of the Vergina Sun!
All Hail Makedonia!!!
Originally Posted by :
Actually, Epeirote government is quite good. Better than the Satrapeia-Hemi-Autonomos and its whooping public order penalties at level three, while at level II the bonuses fairly outweigh the public order malus. If anything all Epeirote governments provide better benefits than their Successor counterparts, regardless of the first time appearances.
Epeiros sucks in the empire phase, because its government-types are not the best. They are too barbarian. They don't have the perfect mix of Hellen culture, ferocious strength and royal appeal like Makedonia.
"Royal appeal", I guess no one beats Pyrrhus here ;~p. Otherwise, the Epeirotes are a fairly "plain" Hellenic faction, which makes your remark about "barbarism" a bit far off, unless it's just plain old Athenian bias :clown:.
The Epeirotes are the only "civilized" faction which can recruit Drapanai. If that doesn't make you kinda barbaric, I don't know what does.
Originally Posted by A Terribly Harmful Name:
Meh, I prefer my good ol' Roman ones. Although the Hellenic experience bonus the governments offer is quite nice, much better than what the Romans have... At the same time, without that experience bonus, the Ptolies/AS governments are crap IMHO.
Actually, Epeirote government is quite good.
Pontos for me, because of the wide variety on the unit roster next to the phalanx units. (Galatian naked dudes and scythed chariots do nice insta routs together.)
But if I have to stick at a hardcore phalanx based faction, then it's Makedonia. Hysteroi Pezhetairoi (sp?) is just the best phalanx unit in the game, since they are much cheaper than the elites, yet they have almost the same stats. Also their high end units belong to the bests of the game.
as some others have said: i think pontos would be a nice choice too, it might not exactly be a phalanks based nation, but i sure used alot of them when fighting the seleucids, simple because it was the only efficient way to hold their pahalanks in check while i killed the rest of the army with slingers/fm's.
it' a pretty hard campaign, but you get acces to the galatian unit's if you're fast, and a bit later once you've taken the bosporus you can get some neat heavy archers too back you up :b
I would say Koinon Hellenon. True most of their units (almost all) are hoplites fighting in phalanx formation but they are more flexible then phalanxes with sarissas and dont need to depend on the ground they fight on. Not as wunerable when it comes to flank attacks i would say cause you can easy switch them around.
Also a great faction if you like infantry as i do. Thorakitai Hoplitai and Epilektoi Hoplitai are yummy to play with :2thumbsup:
Originally Posted by retep219:
If they want to get the reformed Pezhetairoi, yes. But Macedon's unit roster is excellent even without those.
If I recall correctly, Makedonia needs to leave Rome alive so they can get March of Time?
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus:
That's a somewhat simplistic view, although it was shared by many classical writers. Several Greek city states (including Athens and Corinth) still relied partly on citizen militias: they were defeated all the same. The most reliable infantry formations in Carthaginian armies, including those of Hannibal, where the Libyan mercenaries. I am also unsure why Hannibal's Iberians do not qualify as mercenaries. They certainly had no more reason to fight for Carthage than did the Libyans.
Just as the Aetolian and Achaean Leagues were when Romans arrived at Greece after the Second Punic War. Still retaining their fighting spirit, unlike the somewhat spoiled Makedonians and thrice more decadent Greeks, who all but abandoned their citizen militias in favour of mercenaries, the Qarthadastim way - which leads to a predictable ending of a loss. Even Hannibal knew this, which is why he chose to rely on regional indigenous recruits, mainly the Iberians, not independent mercenaries.
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/f...nner_04bak.jpg
I love the idea of a Central-Asian melting-pot of a Hellenistic empire, blending Hellenistic, Persian, Indian and Chinese culture, being the masters of the Silk Road, controlling the trade between China and the Mediterranean, and of course, they've got such a great versatility when it comes to units available - light infantry, skirmishers, archers, horse archers, medium infantry, phalanxes, cavalry, heavy infantry, phalanxes, archers, cavalry, armoured horse archers, cataphracts, elephants! Makedonian/Hellenic, Persian, Baktrian, nomad and Indian troops! What do they not have?!
(... An elite phalanx. *sulk*)
The units are very beautiful too (althouh their Thureophoroi and Thorakitai are a bit bland).
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...taphraktoi.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._daha_baex.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ezhetairoi.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...anvare_pay.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...eek_nobles.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._peltastai.gif
The biggest problem, as many have mentioned, is their starting location. Surrounded on three sides by Arche Seleukeia, who's bound to betray you no matter the state of their collapsing empire (if you do not betray you masters yourself, that is), and after that, the Grind begins.
Well I would say Arche Seleukeia and Makedonia in First and Epeiros at Second place.
Reasons:
Arche Seleukeia: (I wonder why nobody has choosen them so far) A large empire at the brink of demise with a wide variation of troops and the potential to become the empire of alexandros reborn (or even better). The reforms are a pain in the back, but atleats you don't need to depend on the MOT. A huge scale of enemies: Nomads in the east:skull:, traiterous yellow fever hordes in the south-west:furious3:, true Makednos in the west:sweatdrop:, galatians in the middle of Asia Minor pluss the upstart persianized kingdoms in the northern mountains. Beat these however and you can have your own "Roman empire of the east" and west if you choose to go that way (Type I goverments in Pella, Baktria, and Alexandria and Mesopotamia:2thumbsup:). First class units of all kind from India all the way to Hellas. Any kind of army you can think of. What else do you need:beam:
Makedonia: as said by many so far, good troops, good place, great history, lack Thorakitai, depend on MOT and the Elite is in Hellas only. Wonderfull none the less:2thumbsup:
Epeiros: a little barbarian-like but that is there strength - recruitment also quite limited, but still good:yes: Elite cavalry is fantastic, but limited aswell. What makes them really atractive are: - Phyrros and his son:smash:, - don't need MOT and can kill of the Romani so others won't get it either (insert evil :laugh4::laugh4:)
The Arche: there armies may not always be pike-based because of the sheer amount of regional units, but as said: they can train (and pay for) any army you desire. Not only are they facing very different enemies, but they also get to fight them on very different terrain (sandy deserts, stone deserts, steppe lowlands and high mountains, the very distinctive terrain in Asia Minor,...). How many factions experience this in the early game? And as most important feature: they can build truly expensive units, artillery and ships, which means you'll never run out of options to throw away your vast funds.
Originally Posted by HunGeneral:
Although when it comes to Arche Seleukeia, you have to be prepared for, once again, a rather unique faction. Seleukeia is so big that one has to be prepared to mantain a gigantic, overstreched empire from turn 1 and fight a number of foes that is high enough that it is usually kept for the late game in any other faction. A player of Arche Seleukeia has to be ready for a three-front war from the get-go.(Against Ptolomaioi in the Levant, against Pahlava and maybe Baktria in the East, and against various factions in Anatolia.) If you win, of course, you are pretty much set for the game. But victories, especially against the Pahlava and their deadly Horse Archers, will be hard to come by if you decide to use phalanxes. Seleukeia is, in some regards, a phalanx-based faction, especially in the West where it fights similar foes. It has one of the better elite phalanxes, the Silver-Shielded Argyraspides, with a massive AOR (well...relative to other elites), as well as much choice for the "line" phalanxes. But it cannnot rely on phalanxes to help fulfill its eastern victory conditions, and it will present a unique challenge for the player. Choose Seleukeia if you like elaborate, multi-front wars and sophisticated micro-management.
Well I would say Arche Seleukeia and Makedonia in First and Epeiros at Second place.
Reasons:
Arche Seleukeia: (I wonder why nobody has choosen them so far) A large empire at the brink of demise with a wide variation of troops and the potential to become the empire of alexandros reborn (or even better). The reforms are a pain in the back, but atleats you don't need to depend on the MOT. A huge scale of enemies: Nomads in the east:skull:, traiterous yellow fever hordes in the south-west:furious3:, true Makednos in the west:sweatdrop:, galatians in the middle of Asia Minor pluss the upstart persianized kingdoms in the northern mountains. Beat these however and you can have your own "Roman empire of the east" and west if you choose to go that way (Type I goverments in Pella, Baktria, and Alexandria and Mesopotamia:2thumbsup:). First class units of all kind from India all the way to Hellas. Any kind of army you can think of. What else do you need:beam:
Makedonia: as said by many so far, good troops, good place, great history, lack Thorakitai, depend on MOT and the Elite is in Hellas only. Wonderfull none the less:2thumbsup:
Epeiros: a little barbarian-like but that is there strength - recruitment also quite limited, but still good:yes: Elite cavalry is fantastic, but limited aswell. What makes them really atractive are: - Phyrros and his son:smash:, - don't need MOT and can kill of the Romani so others won't get it either (insert evil :laugh4::laugh4:)
as favorite Phalanx based faction I would choose Makedonia for all the reasons mentioned plus the playercolor is black :D. second would be bactria with the most wide spread recruitment roster. still I rather play with KH as I'm not awfully good at makedonian style phalanx warfare, I always preffered good ole hoplite battles.
oh and the AS is the smallest problem the bactrians have! I had to abandon my campaign because the saka rauka Invaded my homeland with Horse archers.
Baktria and Makedonia.
Baktria for their diversity in units (you have Hellenic infantry, HAs, cataphracts, several light and medium cavalry units, Indian units, light Persian units, including most beautiful unit IMO - Indohellenic noble hoplite), exotic touch and interesting history. As The General said, it is nice to control trade between east and west, spread Hellenic culture to the east and Buddhism and Indian culture to the west.
Makedonia is a prototype of phalanx faction, they have elite phalanxes, their unique reformed phalanx, great non-phalanx units as well (traditional successor elites, Thracians, Bosphoran archers...) several expansion possibilities, various enemies, glorious history behind them, so I have a feeling that as a Makedonian king I have to achieve victiories and glory to equal my ancestors. Morover from all successor dynasties I like Antigonids most.
I don't consider Pontos a phalanx-based faction, but they are one of my favourites too, because they join my three favourite cultures from EB - Hellenic, Eastern and Celtic and have beautiful units from all these cultures plus Scythian HAs. When challenge and interesting history is added, they make one the best factions. Other thing I like about Pontos (and Baktria too) is that they are unknown.
Arche Seleukeia, because she has excellent cataphractoi to apply hammer and anvil tactic of Alexander. I have played with Seleucids for yors in RTW Vanilla but as it too easy in EB to play with them I play against her and to fight against AS is really a good challenge.
Baktria has, too but AOR issue limits her playability.
why does no one mention the ptolies? they got something many successors lack: good (not elite) heavy infantry: the Galatikoi Klerouchoi. If you manage to conquer Ankyra you are even able to recruit tidanotae (written correcly???) which are like gesatae. and of course you got all the standard phalanxes, although there might be some problems with the AOR of non-elite heavy cav (agema klerouchon hippeon), elite phalanxes and elite infantry. and they lack the light and cheap pantopadoi phalanxes.
BUT: you only need to fight to 1 front, and there will be nice battles on your way to seleukeia. you got access to the most disciplined and cheapest elephants in the game (though they are the weakest, too).
so all in all nice for all dont want to fight HAs in the east, but want to play a more "exotic" hellenistic faction than macedonia.
Originally Posted by Ca Putt:
Always keep a watchful eye for those nomads.
oh and the AS is the smallest problem the bactrians have! I had to abandon my campaign because the saka rauka Invaded my homeland with Horse archers.
Counter their armies with (Persian or nomad) foot archers, your own horse archers or Baktrioi Hippotoxotai.
Originally Posted by :
That's strange. I found Baktria very easy. The Parthians acted as a screen and all I had to do was guard one mountainous pass while I conquered India.
oh and the AS is the smallest problem the bactrians have! I had to abandon my campaign because the saka rauka Invaded my homeland with Horse archers.
Back on Topic: I would choose Epeiros. They have the most interesting and different culture of all the phalanx nations. They also have a nice historical position, as a brand new kingdom, and a powerful king, Pyrrhos.
General Aetius
Originally Posted by General Aetius:
I've got a similar case in my Baktria save, I'm already besieging Susa, the last Seleukid holding east of Mesopotamia, and the Pahlavans and Saka Rauka are still engaged in a conflict for supremacy over the eastern Pontic steppe.
The Parthians acted as a screen and all I had to do was guard one mountainous pass while I conquered India.
Originally Posted by A Terribly Harmful Name:
This. I too love the Molosson Agema, they're probably my favorite heavy cav in the game. Of the three phalanx-based campaigns I've played (Epeiros, Pontos, and AS), Epeiros has definitely been the most fun. I highly recommend them.
Epeiros, Epirote Heavy Cavalry is GOD: they have the punch of Hetairoi with the speed of Illyrioi Hippeis. More often than not all that super heavy cavalry is too slow and gets tired too quickly, which is lame, but as Epeiros you have probably the most maneuverable shock cavalry in the world. Even if they are still likely to underperform in 1 vs. 1 combat vs. catanks, they can quickly run away and strike at will. And they take forever to get tired too, increasing their longterm battle efficiency.
Otherwise, plenty of Illyrian and Thracian units to use, just like Makedonia. Since you have to conquer Makedonia at the start, your mid-game phalanx roster will probably not be very distinct from them. You can only recruit Pezhetairoi in Makedonian provinces at the start, but at least you get Elephantes Indikoi right off Ambrakia with a better MIC. And from the start, you also have much superior light cavalry forces ranging from Hippeis Tarantinoi to Illyrioi Hippeis, while still having access to the powerful Successor medium cavalry and heavy infantry roster.
Overall, Epeiros is a bit indistinct from Makedonia on the military composition - They have a bit of a local touch to their troops, but the distinctions are less than the similarities. On expansion, you can choose a much wider expansion based on the Mediterranean, and you also don't get much from "March of Time", so you're better off putting the Romaioi scum to death. That's what I plan to follow next in my campaign - with Italia in your hands, you'll be so wealthy that even the Seleukids will pose no problem.
Does anyone know how to edit a thread to have a poll. I think this one deserves to be one :clown:
Originally Posted by Kevin:
Uhmm, never tried on these forums, however if it's mechanism is similar to the ones I'm used too, then if you edit the first post, there you can add a poll too.
Does anyone know how to edit a thread to have a poll. I think this one deserves to be one :clown:
Originally Posted by Apázlinemjó:
nope that didn't work:shame:
Uhmm, never tried on these forums, however if it's mechanism is similar to the ones I'm used too, then if you edit the first post, there you can add a poll too.
I almost always play a phalanx-based faction. Alexander had the right idea.
As for a good EB phalanx faction, I would say Makedonia or the Ptolemaioi. Ptolemaioi have the awesome heavy infantry mentioned earlier and the good successor selection of phalanx units but a lack of good cav besides the hetairoi.
Makedonia is essentially the basic Alexandrian phalanx army. they've got everything you need for a good phalanx battle. however, their selection of phalanx units is relatively narrow compared to the Diadochoi. they only have the levy, the pezhetairoi, and the agyraspides. you can count the hysterioi if you like, I generally don't. The Romani are too stupid to figure out the MOT most of the time for me.
Ptolemaioi have a rather poor selection of units IMO. I love the Galatikoi Kleruchoi, but outside of the Makedonian basics you have rather poor elite units compared to Makedonia, Epeiros, and Arche Seleukeia.
I'd go with the Arche Seleukeia, mainly because you have access to many, many elite units, in addition to the bread and butter of the Makedonian roster. Baktria takes second, though Qarthadast is almost a Hellenic faction in terms of its roster (its missing cheap and medium phalanx units)
oh thank you for intending to help me but the main problem was that they were too many at the wrong time(I had my troops elsewhere and they were "specialised"on elephant killing :/ plus I made a major mistake at the seige of the most northern indian settlement which costed me too much troops(I went for a pee while the battle was loading but forgot that sallys don't have a deployment phase thus I had guild infantry and Elephants in my lines, which is not a very good thing most of the time ) although i won the battle. the saka hordes were just the straw that broke the camel's back :( . I think I'll start a new baktria Campaign in EB2^^
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus:
bah! The Greeks in Bactria and beyond have much more and longer history than those in the west. They survived in a terribly hostile environment, built great cities, and spreaded the greek culture to Indians and Sakas, and they kept the war-like spirit! While the greeks and macedonains elsewhere became soft and fell under Romans and Parthians. :furious3:
Baktria is another good choice, but I loathe their location. Too empty, too little history (that I know of) in the Baktrian vicinity, too unfamiliar in general, too many archers and nomads, and too little variety in general. Same meaningless city, never-ending steppe/mountains, lack of defining geographical locations/features. And really, my main grievance with Baktria is that it is on the edge of the map, where the only real solution is endless AS grind with intermittent nomad walloping. Not like the exciting and varied battles of the Mediterranean.
The Arche, of course. The attacks on the eastern front are quite tiresome, but if you don't mind auto to avoid fighting every little skirmish, it's all right. And you have a pretty good basis for an empire. They've also got an excellent unit roster (love the Thorakitai Argyraspidai) and can quickly add the rich lands of Egypt to their domain.
Makedonia won by 1 person :smash:
Epeiros was second :beam:
Ok...
Carthy might not be a true phalanx faction, but their phalanxes KILL!! :smash:
and their unit roster has enough troops to satisfy all you flanking needs....
from spearmen, to light to heavy cav, to light and heavy infantry, or even them :daisy: from spain that eat armor for dinner!
While other factions might have the same amount of flanking options....
of all i've messed with, carthy's units seem to be that much better than others.... :yes:
remember, ur phalanx only pins the enemy, its up to the rest of the units on ur army (that dont have *too* long of a pointy object) to actually kill them! :2thumbsup:
so heres how it sould look....
:smg: :wall: (phalanx is the wall, smg = watever u wanna use to flank)
AND YES I RESTATE THE VERY OBVIOUS!
but yeah....
ur enemies are gonna have their own flanking units....
but carthy's are better (unless u stick in a few falx men :yes:)
As far as I know, the Carthies only actually have one phalanx unit, the Sacred Band phalanx is not actually a real phalanx...
Originally Posted by Mallios:
They fight hoplite-like.
As far as I know, the Carthies only actually have one phalanx unit, the Sacred Band phalanx is not actually a real phalanx...
Well, I've only fought that unit once, but from what I remember they used a formation that resembled a phalanx ( to the point that I thought they were a phalanx), but were able to switch to their secondary weapon very quickly (to my suprise after spending much time carefully flanking them). I think they share the same formation as Alpine phalanxes in EB 1.2.
Originally Posted by Mallios:
They are rare to encounter since they have small AOR and the AI likes the Elite Africans more.
Well, I've only fought that unit once, but from what I remember they used a formation that resembled a phalanx ( to the point that I thought they were a phalanx), but were able to switch to their secondary weapon very quickly (to my suprise after spending much time carefully flanking them). I think they share the same formation as Alpine phalanxes in EB 1.2.
I'd say Epeiros, my third favourite faction :idea2:.
1) They have a dog as faction emblem, which happens to be a far ancestor of the Bull Terrier. :2thumbsup:
2) They have two nice elite units, the Chaonians and their unique Hetairoi. I like that cavalry the best of all Hetairoi since they are the most true to the Hetairoi which conquered Persia. And the Chaonians are very elite units and look great as well.
3) You have Taras, a Spartan colony. :clown:
4) Its great to fight for southern Italy with the Romans.
5) Elephants, Illyrians and Tracians as well. :yes:
I'm wondering about something though, are todays Albanians the ancestors of the Illyrians? I've always seen Greeks saying they aren't but there is not any proof for it unlike the Fyromians being Slavic (Only cannibal unit in EB:clown:).
Epeiros, of course!
Truely elite phalanx units to counter other phalanx-based armies and Thorakitai if you need more mobility (I tend to use a roman style army with 4 units of thureophoroi/4 thorakitai and 2 hypaspistai + regionals when I´m tired of hammer and anvil tactics). And you have the Molosson Agema, one of the best heavy cav in the game. Oh, and there are the thracian falx guys and peltastai :clown:
I forgot to say Baktria's my favourite phalanx based faction.
Also wow,I never thought Epeiros would be this popular!
BTW, Phalanx 300 are you sure about the Bull Terrier thing? I was told that the Bull Terrier was a result of breeding the White Engish Terrier with the English Bulldog...
Originally Posted by Mallios:
The Bull Terrier is a mix of alot of things, the Mollosian dog was a far ancestor which was imported to England.
I forgot to say Baktria's my favourite phalanx based faction.
Also wow,I never thought Epeiros would be this popular!
BTW, Phalanx 300 are you sure about the Bull Terrier thing? I was told that the Bull Terrier was a result of breeding the White Engish Terrier with the English Bulldog...
Originally Posted by Phalanx300:
unless Bull Terriers are related to Mastiffs, I find this highly unlikely. The Molossus is considered to be an ancient forerunner of the mastiff type dogs we know today.
The Bull Terrier is a mix of alot of things, the Mollosian dog was a far ancestor which was imported to England.
which is one of the reasons I dislike Eperios, along with their lame green color. their emblem showing the hound looking like a greyhound just seems silly and unintimidating to me and their green color is not really something to inspire their troops.
that being said, I love many of their units and would play as them if they still had the 202 sized Thorakitai units like they had in 0.8x
Originally Posted by Torvus:
Well I have this Bull Terrier book which says so.
unless Bull Terriers are related to Mastiffs, I find this highly unlikely. The Molossus is considered to be an ancient forerunner of the mastiff type dogs we know today.
which is one of the reasons I dislike Eperios, along with their lame green color. their emblem showing the hound looking like a greyhound just seems silly and unintimidating to me and their green color is not really something to inspire their troops.
that being said, I love many of their units and would play as them if they still had the 202 sized Thorakitai units like they had in 0.8x
I don't know whats exactly in it, its quite a mess. :sweatdrop:
I like especially macedonia, seleukia, greek city states, ptolmai and epeiros. At the moment i prefer epeiros 'cause of their excellent heavy cavalry which also has a great stamina if you compare them with hetairoi.
My favorite Phalanx-based faction of course are the Lysimachids. Oh, wait, I've been defeated before EB starts. :shame:
Let's see then. I personally like combinations with distinct non-hellenic elements. I'm very sorry to say, this probably means for the great Makedons and Hellenes they come least in my list, because they are least barbaric...
Anyway, despite of all things that can be said about unit composition and skins, starting locations and cultural identity, at the moment I'd probably always end up with Seleucids on top of the list, just because of the intense role-playing experience I have with them, due to my AAR. However, this could change if I started another one. :juggle2:
epeiros.
nice elite phalanx, elephants, most of makedon's roster etc
Oh im afraid i got to say Arche Seleukeia is the better by far, i mean if you are up to the chalange, its very hard to play with them becouse the regions are very wide spread, and you have alot of enemys but i like the roster, include everthing. kataphracts, hetarioi, wide choice of phalanxes, very good heavy infantry, Syrian archers etc etc.
i hv been playing with Makedonia, and Epeiros. Epeiros is fun, and hard at the beginning. Makedonia is fairly easy.
The ptolomaoi there is no juice on the gameplay.
The best heavy cav in the game is no doubt Hetarioi. multiplayer gamers can vouch for that.
There is no real best heavy cav. It all comes down to the role you need it for. For instance, hetairoi will be owned by top teir catanks, but have more stamina. Molloson Agema can run circles around both, and can do more charges in the rear of an enemy line before tiring, but are more vulnerable to enemy attacks. Hetairoi are simply the most versatile(I prefer cataphracts though).
And don't forget that the scythed chariots can eat the armored heavies for breakfast, if you know how to use them. :o
The super heavy cav will roll over chariots in a head on charge.
Also, I did some MP testing of the Molloson Agema and they are possibly THE best cav of the heavy cav/non cataphract class since they trade armor for pure defense. The most effective cav based anti-cav weapons are the charging lances(since it attacks so fast, has high lethality, AFAIK a mount bonus, and is AP but mostly the AP). But MA have hgih defense isntead of armor so they actually get a defensive advantage over say... Companions.
You can try it, they beat Companions head on.
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky:
Nah, I can show you in mp how the chariots destroy the super heavy cavalry units.
The super heavy cav will roll over chariots in a head on charge.
Also, I did some MP testing of the Molloson Agema and they are possibly THE best cav of the heavy cav/non cataphract class since they trade armor for pure defense. The most effective cav based anti-cav weapons are the charging lances(since it attacks so fast, has high lethality, AFAIK a mount bonus, and is AP but mostly the AP). But MA have hgih defense isntead of armor so they actually get a defensive advantage over say... Companions.
You can try it, they beat Companions head on.
Not in a head to head charge you wont.
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky:
It works, the secret is the loose formation. At the charge, the chariots will suffer serious casualties and rout sometimes. However if they don't rout, then they will butcher the heavy cavalry in close combat with immense speed. If you don't believe me, try it out in MP, or in a Custom game, or I can send you a match replay when 2 chariot units destroy companions/cataphracts and prodromoi (not remembering which was).
Not in a head to head charge you wont.
I can also send you replays of chariots bouncing off of Baktrian catanks in hilarious fashion. What you say does make sense and I could see loose formation chariots being fairly good head on versus cav. However, there is the issue of actually controlling the chariots when they are in loose since they tend ot have minds of their own.
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky:
Maybe that's the reason why they are that good in close combat against heavy cavalry, I don't know. Though the chariots are still sucky against anything else, for example infantry and skirmisher cavalry make short work of them.
I can also send you replays of chariots bouncing off of Baktrian catanks in hilarious fashion. What you say does make sense and I could see loose formation chariots being fairly good head on versus cav. However, there is the issue of actually controlling the chariots when they are in loose since they tend ot have minds of their own.
Im still trying to figure out the best use for chariots, sometimes its great sometimes terrible.
Back to the topic, if Baktria is considered a phalanx-based faction thats my vote. From my experience playing Baktria so far if you "phalanx-base" your army against nomads and semi-nomads you are screwed. Eastern part of the map is nasty and wonderful at same time.
Well a phalanx in towns against nomads does wonders..... Mmmmmmmmm.
I'm pretty sure the "Greyhound" in the Epeirote sheild is just a wolve.
Are you kidding me? The phalanx is utterly immune from missile attacks from the front. It provides a steady anchor on the battlefield that the Nomads don't have and which can harbour your own archers and cavalry to safely decimate the enemy from protected positions. No Nomad can beat the combination of early game Pantodapoi Phalangitai and Nizagan-Ehranshar sticked together.
Originally Posted by A Very Super Market:
It's a Molossan hound, it was discussed in a faction symbols thread.
I'm pretty sure the "Greyhound" in the Epeirote sheild is just a wolve.
Originally Posted by A Terribly Harmful Name:
The Nomads don't have to win each battle. They attack, use up all their arrows and withdraw to attack you next turn... etc.
Are you kidding me? The phalanx is utterly immune from missile attacks from the front. It provides a steady anchor on the battlefield that the Nomads don't have and which can harbour your own archers and cavalry to safely decimate the enemy from protected positions. No Nomad can beat the combination of early game Pantodapoi Phalangitai and Nizagan-Ehranshar sticked together.
That or take you on a wild goose chase, then charge you from all four directions when you're tired, thirsty, and demoralized.....
That's what it comes down to: the AI is too stupid for using attrition techniques, while you can simply reply them in kind with them being incapable of chasing your archers, fruitlessly shooting at the front of the phalanx and predictably losing the duel vs. the foot archers. You don't have to chase them, that's stupid.
Originally Posted by satalexton:
Why bother with that when you can do that on the campaign map with nothing but arrows?
That or take you on a wild goose chase, then charge you from all four directions when you're tired, thirsty, and demoralized.....
Because it makes you feel bad, and in most cases you don't have the time. I mean, steppe factions agains the phalanx AI feels like total cheating. 2 saka bodyguard units can smash a powerful seleukid half stack, seriously. I did it at least: 2 saka normal family member bodyguards vs 1 seleukid general, 1 syrian archers, 2 persian spearmen, 1 eastern skirmishers, 2 klerouch phalangitai and 2 argyraspidai. It started that I thought I had lost nisa, so I sent those gens to wear them down, and it ended with a victory, something like 900 kills, and 40 losses:dizzy2:
The AI does completely stupid things, like when phalanx units are exhausted, they somehow manage to lift up the pikes right before I charge, or even countercharge with swords.:no:
Originally Posted by Lupu:
God Damn i need to crash those Seleukids like that too :smash::smash::smash:
2 saka bodyguard units can smash a powerful seleukid half stack, seriously. I did it at least: 2 saka normal family member bodyguards vs 1 seleukid general, 1 syrian archers, 2 persian spearmen, 1 eastern skirmishers, 2 klerouch phalangitai and 2 argyraspidai. It started that I thought I had lost nisa, so I sent those gens to wear them down, and it ended with a victory, something like 900 kills, and 40 losses:dizzy2:
On the OP,
Playing as Pontos, I felt that they were a bit of a militarily weak faction. I mean, lucky thing is that they get a lot of Galatian and Hellenic regionals, because otherwise their roster is a bit limited. They're like an ersatz successor: instead of large armies of Medium and Elite Phalanxes supported by Heavy Cavalry, Pontos gets ersatz Pezhetairoi (Pantodapoi Phalangitai play a disproportionate amount in their battle line), ersatz Argyraspides (Chalkaspides, an overpriced Hysterioi Pezhetairoi), ersatz pseudo-Thorakitai and finally ersatz Hetairoi (Their late bodyguard Pontikoi Strategoi).
Nevertheless their campaign placement makes them a very fun faction, but I wouldn't count on their armies. I only really liked the Galatians and made sure I recruited tons of these because that's about the only "good" and sometimes the only "cost-effective" thing I could place in a Pontic Army.
And Harmata Drepanephora are useless.