Personally i think its Macedon based on starting placement, army versatility and economic strength due to owning Corinth from the start meaning you can have massive taxes without much penalty at all.
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Personally i think its Macedon based on starting placement, army versatility and economic strength due to owning Corinth from the start meaning you can have massive taxes without much penalty at all.
I was about to whine on which grounds, but i think your assessment is pretty accurate. Indeed macedonia enjoys a number of advantages, like balanced roster (able infantry and cavalry) and perfect starting position in terms of placement. It gets a bit hectic at first, but nowhere near as hectic as with the Seleucids or Gaul. A good choice for overall best.
You left out my choice.......Armenia. Isolated starting position with rich, nearby provinces both in Pontus and Seleucid territory. Cataphract Archers, Cataphracts, Phalanx, Legionaires,......what else do you need?!? The CA are the ultimate answer to chariots. Just assign one to each chariot unit in the battle, and go on about conducting the rest of the fight. They'll be dead in minutes..........
Good temple choices that eventually allow gold status armor and weapons at huge city level. Only drawbacks, IMO, are vanilla archers (Creeshans are available once you push into Anatolia, tho') and the very strange inability to build paved roads. If one is allowed epic stone walls for a huge city, you'd think their stonemasons and engineers could figure out how to put gravel down for a roadbed and lay pavers over them?!?
The choice undoubtedly has to be a Roman faction.
Needless to mention they are the best in all departments. The producers unfairly over powered the Romans too much, resulting almost in their invincibility over the others. Nonetheless, as addressing to the question, the Romans are by far the best factions in Vanilla beyond all doubts.
Quintus is probably correct. If you could autorun the game with the AI controlling all factions, the Romans would win every time. Although I disagree that they are the best in all departments, they get so many 'perks' it's hard for AI-led factions to fight them on anything like equal terms.
Still.......Armenia needs to be added to complete the list, yes?
Yes i knew i'd forgotten some, i was doing it by memory. Pontus and Armenia...
The autorun would play the battles by the autocalc; in this way the Romans would win everytime yes. However, and despite indeed being hugely overpowered, Roman armies can and are defeated regularly in mp with proper play. Many of the other factions have the tools to beat them if used properly. This is all the more in SP, as the AI is much less good opponent. Phalanx factions in particular can trash the Romans pretty easily. In terms of strategy in the SP game, the Romans can get wiped out of the game by the Gauls, Carhage, Macedon, the Greek Cities and Germania - and pretty quickly too; that's because the really overpowered part of the Roman tech tree is the Marian one. Consequently they aren't that great in terms of SP while they are still small and vulnerable.
For me, it has to be a Phalanx based civ which leaves me with Macedonia & Seleucia.
Although I prefer the later miltary of Seleucia, I think it's a little busy in that corner of the map early game.
The simple economic potential in the early game of the Macedonians tips the balance for me (they punish the Romans too early game :2thumbsup:).
Shame on me. :shame: I really wanted to vote for Seleucia's 'phracts too. :charge:
The best Faction is the Faction you enjoy playing the most :yes:
I reckon all Factions are interesting to play, I'll vote Julii - its my first campaign and it felt the most atmospheric and Rome-y.
It's either Scipii or Seleucids.
Scipii because of their Armor upgrades from a temple and their ability to recruit Decere and Corvus Quinquireme.
Seleucids because they can recruit Roman Legionaries and they have Armoured elephants:2thumbsup:
I can agree to a certain extent. Although the Romans are the best factions in the game my fighting style is better suited to Phalanx factions, so the best faction for me is the best Phalanx faction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shieldmaiden
But you must remember that we are talking about "best" faction, not favourite faction. That's a different poll. :yes:
Brittania and Spain, those sometimes are underrated.
Voted for Scythia. Great starting position with only western border being warring one, best starting unit (HA), riches of Balkans waiting for you.
If you are aggressive, you will simply roll over Thrace, Dacia, Germany, Macedon and Greece and be on roman borders before they even start fielding principes, not to mention anything heavier.
Seleucia. Once you overcome the first 10 turns or so, you'll be the richest faction. You'll also be able to get to Egypt and the Aegean quickly (very good pickings). You have the most varied unit roster of all factions, including Armored War Elephants, Silver Shield Legionnaires and Pikemen, War Chariots, Cataphracts... and your archery needs can be filled by parking a family member on close-by Crete. You'll have plenty of fun battling the eastern factions, and you'll also have a great time destroying well-advanced, powerful Romans by the time you get to Italy. By that time, your Elephant, Chariot and Cavalry armies are almost the perfect matchup to destroy heavy Roman legions - or just play their game and beat them at it with your Silver Shields!
Be warned, however, that the beginning is not easy. Militia Hoplites and Peltasts against Horse Archers - I believe you get the picture. Militia Cavalry have always served me well, though!
The pre-Marian Romans are not too shabby themselves. I've played many vanilla campaigns, I've never seen a Roman faction bite the dust in vanilla, ever. (Unless I wipe them out myself, of course. ) The most I've seen other factions do in Italy was capture Capua for a short time (Carthage), or Mediolanum (Dacia), also for a short while. And inevitably, they don't stay small and vulnerable - even if they sit around in Italy for the first few decades they have a tendency to explode across the map once they get started.Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
Agreed, Dacia and Germania with their unarmoured troops are easy pickings... almost too easy. Plus, if I remember correctly, Scythia can field horse archers at barracks-level. Horse archers by themselves are scary enough. Now very low-tier horse archers....Quote:
Originally Posted by placenik
I agree with you Quirinus, the AI can never do it, because he fights with the autocalc as mentioned. However, for the player, using (especially phalanxes) properly his forces the Romans can be very shabby pre-Marius. When i play Macedon, Greek Cities, Carthage or Germania the Romans are a breeze. With Gaul i tend to get heroic victory marks all over the Italian penins. - somewhat harder than with phalanxes but still easy enough, especially since the Romans are very close and one can rush them at once.
:bow:
One reason (a major one, AFAIAC) that Roman factions rule in vanilla is that the AI is entirely too passive when it comes to attacking them. In my current camp (as Carthage), I'd already eliminated the Scipii, and strangled Julii attempts to take Caralis (which has them milling around northern Italy trying to figure out what to do). The only Roman faction making any progress was the Brutii, and only just.
They have Appollonia and Salona but only a very few units on that side of the Adriatic. So, to the point:
The GC have three nearly full stacks of hoplites hanging around Thermon with a 3-star general heading one of them and are at war with the Romans. Appollonia has a general and three units of Hastati. The seas between are clogged with GC fleets so no reinforcements will be forthcoming anytime soon.
So what does the AI do? It moves one stack back to Athens, one to the hill overlooking Larissa (where it stands for several turns before moving back to the vicinity of Thermon), and embarks the general-led army onto a fleet which sails aimlessly around.
Absolutely brilliant!
I guarantee if you were playing Shogun, and had only a general and three army units guarding a province, and your enemy had three stacks in a neighboring province, you'd be facing an invasion, pronto.
I've seen this repeatedly.....factions will defend themselves if attacked, but noone carries the fight to the Romans even if they have local superiority. It's almost as if there's a 'fear of the Romans' factor built in to the AI.:dizzy2:
Maybe or maybe its fear of the Roman autocalc. I've seen full stacks of GCs with hoplites and all with 10 star generals get wiped out by roman hastati stacks in the autocalc and the Romans taking 50% casualties or so. early gcs stacks should be even weaker with militia hoplites being terrible in autocalc although in reality they can beat hastati and even principes if used correctly.
I know it's a bit off topic, but exactly what makes the autocalcs with Roman factions so bad? I can autocalc (at hard/hard) with phalanx and come out just fine. Looking at unit stats, Hastati & Principes have quite high defensive values but many early Roman stacks are half Velite which have weak melee stats. So what gives? I suppose there's probably a thread around here that already discusses that, so I should probably look for it........but still.......not even trying? Letting the Romans get established is tantamount to a death sentence......
And where's Armenia in the poll list so I can vote?:laugh4:
The way the autocalc works is by taking into account attack/defense/hitpoints. In this way though the phalanx "stats" are not included, but just the stats of phalangites when they fight off phalanx formation. Their stats in off phalanx are considerably weaker (which is why they aren't as good on walls). The romans are among the few factions that have good attack/defence units available from very early on. Even the barbarians have bad for autocalc early/lowtier units (spear warbands).
:bow:
Hello,
Gollum is right here. In autocalced battles (whatever the TW game), only the raw melee stats are taken into account. Missiles, special formations, warcries, etc are not factored. This is why defensive or missile units always come off worse in autocalc against the mainly offensive Roman infantry units. This is bad enough pre marian, post marian it is much more exaggerated.
Yohei
Congratulations on your promotion Yohei.
:bow:
Understood. I'm just trying to tinker the game for my own benefit. I'm not a huge RTW fan (I much prefer STW) but I do enjoy RTW gaming from time to time and since I never play Roman factions, I just wanted to introduce a bit more balance into the game by making AI-led factions able to be something more than a speed bump to the Roman steamroller.Quote:
This is why defensive or missile units always come off worse in autocalc against the mainly offensive Roman infantry units. This is bad enough pre marian, post marian it is much more exaggerated.
It seems to me that morale is also a huge factor in autocalc - for example Samnite mercs tend to do badly even though their stats are as good as the Romans.
Indeed Quirinus, i forgot to mention morale. It is also taken into account.
:bow:
I still don't buy into the 'auto-calc' fear factor, if my current camp is any indication. I am by far the strongest faction on the board, and other than city garrisons, my fighting armies are seasoned, well-led, and have all the best upgrades available. So I suppose the decision by the AI-led Gauls, and the Thracians to attack me rather than much weaker targets (like Britannia for the Gauls, and the Brutii for Thrace) is more likely the infancy of the 'black knight' syndrome found in ETW. Not complaining, mind you, just noting that I find it highly unlikely that the AI logic box has anything in it related to the strength of its' proposed target or what the results of an auto-calc battle will be......because at this stage of the game, auto-calcs with my armies is much worse for the AI than one with the Romans.
between the AI and the player its different than between AI factions, especially if you play on high difficulties. The player is always targeted as a priority by the AI.
:bow:
As it should be. And I'm sure I'm looking at the situation as a human player would, and expecting long-range sophisticated thinking from the AI is asking way too much from both the game engine and the programming realm of possibility.Quote:
The player is always targeted as a priority by the AI.
Still, the AI programming has become a very interesting topic for me (tread upon many moons ago by many others, I'm sure) and I still hold to one of my original observations that the AI, in addition to not being able to handle the campaign map, is simply too passive.......
.......and we have strayed a looong ways off-topic:laugh4:
At least its discussion of some sort... this place is way too dead:(Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai
Actually this place has quite a few viewings - its just that discussion is a tad off. Its understandable though - most RTW players discuss a mod or something, few play vanilla.
:bow:
I pick Numidia. great choice for those who like flanking with light cavalry. their cavalry, is the best. especially the camel!
Agreed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Reid of Britannica
This forum is way too dead for the best game of the best series of a generation!
im back and im starting a new topic. i took a hiatus from rtw but came back did a little modding of my own and enjoying quite a bit.
Had to go with Julii, My long lost Roman partners ;)
psh its the seleucids of course!!!!!!!!! unless the ai controls them then they suck.
I hate egyptians though i hate them so.
Macedon. Superb starting position. Phalanx. Long Spears. Heavy Calvary. Enough said.
Yeah, the EB Forums on the Org are one of this site's most active subforums. Unlike most of the Org, those forums never really died down a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
It's pretty amusing that the seperate EB AAR section receives much more views than the Mead Hall. :laugh4:
I'm fond of the Scipii. I like thier starting position, the ahistorical green faction color and expanding into Greece is a fun way to begin the campaign. Also, before I learned of minor tweeks to make the other factions more 'playable' (hey, I'm not the tactician I thought I was), Rome was the only factions I could have any success with. Greece a second. Despite how lame the Spartans look, I'd like to pump those guys out in a campaign!
uh mate your talking brutti scipii are green :tongue:
and there are some mods to make the spartans look better. Like i know there is a 300 mod done by private player and company made one, companies looks better of course but didnt change unit cards and when you zoom out in a battle they look like they did from before. Yet more shoddy work by CA im afraid, probably more out there as well.
i like one where you make your general have a bodyguard of spartans and be on foot.
Oopsie! Hee hee...never been much for historical accuracy! Where are such mods available? General bodyguard on foot sounds very appealing!
Many mods do this Nerd; including EB (for the German/Sweboz BGs).
:bow:
I have EB right now but it's a little too difficult for me at the moment. I want to brush up on RTW first for awhile (hopefully that will help). Though perhaps the economic and goverment structuring of the campaign map are polar oposities and it won't, I'm not sure. I rather just use a simple mod to adjust vanilla RTW for those Spartans. I tweeked a few stats for factions in their starting positions as well. Other than that there is little else I want to do to my vanilla RTW campaign.
I know what you mean - i often do the same.
:bow:
I've never been one for mods really, The historical accuracy ones are great for those who care for historical accuracy (not me to a certain extent, I do care but vanilla is accurate enough for me), but i just love vanilla for it's playability and fun factor
i play rome total realism but to be honest vanilla still appeals to me i just mod what i see fit.
ok for new spartan skin you can either google it 9my recommendation because you will get good directions) or its even here on this website. finally on twc there is another mod skin where they look like theey are from frank millers 300 but i dont really like that look.Quote:
I have EB right now but it's a little too difficult for me at the moment. I want to brush up on RTW first for awhile (hopefully that will help). Though perhaps the economic and goverment structuring of the campaign map are polar oposities and it won't, I'm not sure. I rather just use a simple mod to adjust vanilla RTW for those Spartans. I tweeked a few stats for factions in their starting positions as well. Other than that there is little else I want to do to my vanilla RTW campaign.
for bodyguards ask someone more experienced than me i downloaded the change i believe. its way cooler though.
I'll be googling soon!
In Rome: Total War.
Assuming all AI controlled factions (so, no human intellect advantage).
#1. Brutii - awesome temples, expands towards the rich Greek/Macedon lands via Senate missions. Is a Roman faction, which means it will TROUNCE anything late-game, due to the imbalanced build trees for cities, two extremely strong allies that protect it's West and South borders, and the good ol' Roman supperiority that has been discussed already.
Honorable mentions: Scipii (nearly as good temples, expands towards Carthage/Spain and gets decent sea trade (but not as good as the Athens/Sparta combo). Julii, who have crappy temples as far as unit bonuses are concerned, up unil super-lategame and Pantheons. However, the Juno line does give law boosts and good retinues, the Ceres gives a good retinue for early faction population (more generals - faster expansion). The Egyptians - very strong economy, crazy good archers and scary chariots. They always seem to dominate when i leave that corner of the map to the Ai. The Seleucids, who are monstrous lategame due to having good temples, very rich provinces and the most versatile unit rooster. Macedonia (for almost the same reasons as the Seleucids, but sans Elephant units).
Assumed all human-controlled factions (so every faction gets the human intellect bonus)
this is a problem since whomever starts first gets dibs on the mercs, and mercs are vital to factions like the Greek Cities, Thrace, Scythia, Carthage etc. Particularly whomever grabs those archers and slingers on Sicily will win that slugfest. Still, in my oppinion, If all your opponents are equally good human players, one can expect massive agression early on. Then the starting stacks come in to play. And guess who has the best starting stacks - that's right, the Roman Senate.
Provided that's an option, the SPQR faction is supperior in an all-human game. Very good generals, units of triarii and principes with chevrons, the ability to expand and take out whichever provine they choose (i'd go for Sparta and then Alexandria). They also have the three roman familias as their lapdogs early game. With 3 human-level Roman factions taking on the neighbors, and the ability to train First Legions, SPQR has this in the bag.
Now, assuming the Romans would not aid each other in an all human level game, then i'd say it's a close contest between Macedonia/the Seleucids/Scythia/Egypt and the Brutii/Scipii. Can't decide really since the starting battles for half of these depend vastly on mercs. The Seleucids could come out on top if they get dibs on the mercenearies and can bribe away Pontus and the Egyptians early on. Scythia could overrun it's neighbors with the early HAs, and just siege cities patiently. Macedon can turtle if it get's Cretan Archers on those walls, and can win field battles due to phalanx+cav combo. However, Egypt has no immediate threats and can either safely expand on Africa or go up North and take out the Seleucids and Greeks. So, in an all-human game, nobody will be able to pressure Egypt early on, and that will let them boom from the start. And that's why i'd say,
#1: Egypt in an all-human game, simply due to economical and logistical advantages, and very strong mid-game units.
It's close though, because if Carthage decides to skip the Italina conquest and teams up with Numidia Egypt will be hard pressed. However, that's assuming Numida and Carthage ally with each other.
I still play it thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by gollum
well, The best are the Brutii,
because:
1. they have a strong army in the beginning
2. they expand to the east, Greece, and Mesopotamia via Senate Missions which will not only gain the Senate's Favor, but also the people (hell I got full Favor on both)
3. cool green colours lol
4. easy to take Rome when ready
5. cannot be flanked, unlike the Scipii (from the sea), Julii (through Etruria, or other Areas that will seem to make it's speahead settlement, Flanked)
6. Fun battes with Greeks, especially in Hard mode
7. for short: The best in Strategical, Tactical, and Numerical Advantages
seleucids. too good of a roster. and militia hoplites are a total bonus. cities are invincible with militia hoplites. in human play chariots (meaning: egypt) suck, hard.
Yes but if you assume that all opponents are equally good this means that Pontus will come knocking on your back door while Armenia takes Asia Minor. You can't beat their HA/Cav armies in the field early on. Cities? Who said one must assault? Sieges are still viable last time i checked.
I might agree with Myth's analysis for PvP mode, though I feel that in the right hands, the Seleucids will be a force. They are more spread than Egypt, and more open to attack from different directions, but nonetheless, the HA factions have crappy infantry and the HA can be countered early by "Creeshans" which the Selkies have immediate access to (unfortunately for the GC, the Seleucids go first and can nab the first two in Anatolia before them).
As long as the Seleucids stick to their cities, early on, the HA factions will have trouble assaulting. Egypt will have to watch its' back as there are some here who are pretty darn good with Numidia:laugh4:
The Seleucids are very rich and they can turtle in quite effectively. I'm still wondering what's stopping a dual cav army to just starve out a city - either sally forth and be subsequently crushed, or stay inside and starve. Cretians/Rhodians are good but they will be whittled down as you can't replenish your stacks. Now if Egypt did not play aggresively yes that could be pretty advantageous. However army for army Eggies will trounce Nmidia. And the Pharaoh's lands are so much richer than those arid deserts Numida has that the Eggies can have two armies for each one of their neighbors.
The Julii IMO. Brutti cannot make Hastati at the begining, and Scipii have a weird position (although very interesting). When I play as Julii, I expend very rapidly, and block other Romans' expansion, because they can rush the best. Therefore, you can have no real competition.
Also, I think these are the main parametres to the quality of the faction:
- Proximity to the rich regions (Greece) and it's surroundings (Asia minor, North Africa, Italy). The ability to take Rhodes (as it's wonder is absolutely terrific). Egyptian provinces and Seleucia (cuz of Hanging gardens) are pretty good too. Concentration of provinces. You will be much, much more effective if you have a large region next to you with 10 settlements than one with 2. That's why I value Greece so much.
- Possesion of troops that are good in SP: Legionaries, HA, good cavalry (no need for a too heavy one). Phalanxes are good too, but they are far too defensive for my taste.
- Paved roads. If your faction doesn't have them, you suck! J/K, but I really hate playing without paved roads. Sewers too are very important.
So you're basically taking the Brutii's intended provinces and you justify Julian supremacy because you can build Hastati on turn 1? I'd say the Brutii starting stacks are better, and they have the luxury of having a ship that can cross over to Greece on turn 1. So good luck beating them (if played by an equally good player) to the Greek provinces. I always take Sparta on turn 4-5, and it can build Hastati.
I'm probably biased. I really dislike the Brutii colour, their speach in the opening cinematic. In the meantime, I'm really fond of Gaius Julius...
The Julii, imo, are the most all rounded Romans when it comes to expansion. They have equal accessability to all rich territories, while the other Romans have better accessability to east/west respectivelly. If you prove to be significantly better than the AI, you can use your average position to turn it into a superior position to both the Brut and Scip. Of course, it's impossible to achieve when playing against a human, but it's called single player for a reason
:)
Romans are easy to beat in multiplayer and in I would imagine in campaign
A cavalry rush premarian destroys them quite easily. Pre Marian their units are good in autocalc and decent in actual battle but far from invincible
The problem with that is that there are only two nations that can cav rush any Roman faction relatively safely (as in, not sacrifice their entire game just to traverse half the world to ride some Veities down). Only Carthage and Macedon can do that. Carthage however, has to commit heavily and their cavalry isn't that effective, even with elephants they'd be hard pressed to take setllements or Scipii armies that are on high ground and have archers (they can grab the Cretian mercs early on).
Macedon's cavalry is very potent but if they devote their time to Brutii stomping, Thrace, Scythia and the Greeks will all stab them in the back, as Macedon has a very spread-out layout. Cavalry is expensive early on and lacks severely when phalanxes, walls+archers or Principes/Triarii come in to play unless one can out-produce the Roman factions (which isn't that easy for Carthage/Macedon) Sure later on Armenia/Pontus/Scythia/The Seleucids are all a threat but by that time any Roman stack worth's it's salt will have Legionary Cohorts or better + Auxilia / Archer Auxilia + Onagers. That will make fighting them in the field very hard but at the same time allow them to take settlements on turn 1, and thus drive cav heavy armies furhter back with more sucess, as for each Roman town sieged one can capture two or even three immediately due to the strong siege equimpent and good unit mix.
What timeline are we talking here? IMHO, Armenia, Pontus, or Seleucia all have better cavalry than Macedon, especially Armenia. They do require some advanced infrastructure to produce, hence the time question.
That mix will lose every time to a cataphract army. Roman Archer Auxilia cannot go toe-to-toe with Cataphract Archers and the Heavy Cataphracts will grind cohorts into the ground. I always love the suicidal Auxilla charging my Cataphracts:laugh4: I keep telling them that just because the manual sez you have a bonus fighting cavalry that you can go off charging armored cav with defensive values well over 30:sweatdrop:.....but they never listen and so die by the hundreds............Quote:
Sure later on Armenia/Pontus/Scythia/The Seleucids are all a threat but by that time any Roman stack worth's it's salt will have Legionary Cohorts or better + Auxilia / Archer Auxilia + Onagers.
I have had little trouble with those in SP, but i will take your word for it as i lack MP experience. Still, by the time Armenia and Pontus grow sufficiently the Brutii would have the best cities and the ability to field more armies.
Give me two generals And some equities and ill destroy Senate armyQuote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai
That depends on how quickly Armenia can secure Tarsus and Antioch. Regular HA come at a population of 2k, Cataphract Archers at 6k, and heavy Cats at 12k. Sinope is already close to the 6k mark if one gets there before Pontus drains the pop. training useless E. Infantry, and Nicomedia can be grown at a rapid rate if it retains a temple of Aphrodite. With some boldness, the Greeks can be relieved of Pergamum, and the Armenians can match city for city with the Peleponesus. Sparta, Thermon, and Corinth are slow growers, but Athens, Thessalonica, and Byzantium, are definitely recruiting centers for the Romans. Still, I cannot see the Romans outproducing Asia Minor in any way.Quote:
Still, by the time Armenia and Pontus grow sufficiently the Brutii would have the best cities and the ability to field more armies.
Lots of people have loads of problems with HA's. Almost as much as Ptolemaic Chariot Archers. Cataphract Archers eat those chariots for lunch or any meal for that matter, and can be a nightmare in the right hands. Furthermore, Roman infantry are in too loose of a formation to effectively stop a heavy cavalry charge, IMHO. While they are setting up to do their pila thing, they are getting their formation shattered. Pikemen in deep ranks are the best way to stop the cats. You can bog down the charge and try to swarm them from the sides before they can pull back after using up their charge bonus. The same works on the Light Lancers, which also have a very high charge bonus. Pikes or hoplites 6 or 7 deep stop 'em cold.Quote:
I have had little trouble with those in SP, but i will take your word for it as i lack MP experience
Unfortunately for the Romans, they don't have access to phalanx except through mercs. Equites are no match even for CA's let alone the heavy Cats, and Roman/Legionary or even Praetorian aren't all that much better. A Roman army's best bet for fighting cav-heavy Armenians is to choose wooded areas that grant infantry cav-fighting bonuses. Of course then Armenia can go more conventional and switch to Heavy Spears and it's own Legionaire's backed by 'Creeshans'.
In any case, it's going to be a rough going for either side.
That'd be one battle even Alexander the Great would like to witness:dizzy2:Quote:
Give me two generals And some equities and ill destroy Senate army
If memory serves, Sparta can train Principes right off the bat (I have principes at turn 9 or 10 with my Brutii), but yes I see how your analysis is correct, not sure on the unit costs however, how many CA/Cat armies can Armenia field?
Centurion1 the Senate starts with Triarii stacks that have several levels of experience, a really good general and some Principes/Hastati with chevrons as well. If commanded by a human player I can't see anything but light horses running in to a meatgrinder.
Depends on several factors. Heavy cats cost 720 and CA 1140 w/o cost reducing ancillaries and both take 2 seasons to train. Expensive, as they should be, considering what they can do. What cities Armenia holds determines income, of course, but Armenia has the "Caravan" structure like other Persian factions which acts like a Temple of Hermes to increase trade. It's a slow start, but once rolling, a tough cookie to deal with.Quote:
how many CA/Cat armies can Armenia field?
If we consider a game where all factions are player-controlled, of more importance than mercs (as previously mentioned) is who is willing to put aside future conflicts temporarily, and squelch the potential powers like the Romans and Eggies. If the GC and Macedon make a short-term peace, the Brutii will be hard-pressed to make any progress at all. Gaul won't get much help until the Julii come over the Alps, and a Carthaginian-GC alliance will effectively snuff the Scipii on Sicily.
Anatolia and the Middle East would be interesting. For Armenia to make headway, peace with Parthia is a must. But then Parthia would have to take on Seleucia that way, so maybe they would prefer peace with them and concentrate on Armenia. Pontus' survival depends on a similar triangle. They have to move quickly to secure Asia Minor while watching their backs for Armenia. Seleucia has to choose carefully, as it can potentially have war on multiple fronts. Obviously the main threat is Egypt, but Hatra, Seleucia, and Sardis are all out on a limb.
Egypt's alliances would be interesting. Parthia or Numidia are obvious choices. One to secure its backside, the other its flank as it expands into the Middle East.
In any case, such a game would be great fun to play, and equally as fun to watch.
In total agreement here.. I've read the Gallic Wars by Julius Caesar, so this one interested me the most. Although I'm fond of carthage also...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shieldmaiden
In response to other posts.. I find Rome the 'steam roller' option. Once they get the Marion reforms and can field really strong infantry and archers, they are a power to contend with. Lately I've been prefering more of a challenge, so the lesser factions are my choices of late.
Voted Germania just for the hell of it. Never tried a long campaign with them but they sure give you a challenge on the campaign map with a mediocre starting position in the middle of Europe and meagre possibilities to gain money from trading. On the other hand they probably have the best infantry in the game with the spear warband (barbarians in phalanx-formation, yum!) on the same level as others get town watch and later on lots and lots of other powerhouses.
And I agree with previous posters, the best faction is probably the one you enjoy playing the most. Seeing as this is a game and not a task at work the point, as I see it, is enjoying playing it and nothing else :cool3:
Kind regards
The Germans have been tempting for me as well - Chosen Archers, Spear Warbands, Berserkers all sound good. However, I am loathe to play a barbarian faction in vanilla RTW simply because mid-late game city development is all in the hands of the Romans/Hellenic factions. No civic buildings means very poor riot management... Plus, most Roman infantry will walk rigth trough the phalanx and smash them in the face, and barb units have very low morale to boot.
Loyalty control can be done even with Germania. In my last campaign with them, I had most of my cities at ZPG with at least 'yellow-faced' loyalty. I think Germania has the best roster of all the barbarian factions. Chosen archers rock, as do the Noble cavalry. Germania phalanx has mass going for it as well as cheap cost. They should never be the mainstay for the battle line but serve in the traditional 'anvil' role. When Roman heavy infantry get tied up with them, its' time to send in the Chosen axmen and flank with cavalry. My favorite Central European faction.
True and true! City management just isn't the same with barbarians as with the romans and greeks, for obvious reasons :nice:
And yeah, although lacking head hurlers Germania is my favourite barbarian faction by far. Never tried Dacia though, perhaps their incredibly bad startingposition could bode for a decent campaign in the end...
Kind regards
I've had some fun with Scythia. Horse spam can get you very far vs the AI :)