The RAM and XP question

Is there any point to having 4GB of RAM if you have 32bit windows XP?

I'm somewhat sceptical. Currently I have 2GB of very good RAM, plus a video card with 640MB of memory. I'm wondering about upping it to 4GB for the sake of Civ 5 and a few others; RAM is cheap at the moment and I could get some sticks which match my existing corsair stuff so there wouldn't be any performance gaps between the old and the new. Combined with a bit of overclocking on my E6600 core2duo it should give my system a decent boost. Or so I am gently musing.

But there's the limit on 2GB per program, and there's also the way video RAM is supposed to be counted in with standard RAM for that limit. If I added more my games wouldn't be able to use much of it, would they? They'd only gain back the relatively small fraction used by windows. Surely not worth the money?

I'm not going to switch to a different version of windows.

RAM is so cheap now-a-days, and it is a significant upgrade over your current. You would only be looking at around £30 for two sticks of 2gig each (total of 4) possibly even get it for less depending on your personal circumstances and in my opinion, it makes a very clear and noticeable difference.

With my current budget and situation, paying the amount for the RAM will not be breaking any banks, however, I don't know about your situation and if money is very tight, then it might be best skipping it.

The best way to think about it would be like this. "If I simply lost £30 at this moment, how negative an impact will it have on my life?".

I would recommend assuming the worst case, then deciding on that. If it ends up better then that, you will feel really good about it.

Upgrade, frog. You may go for x64 someday later. Until then, an extra 1GB would relieve the bottlenecking.

Like LEN said, you should see an extra gig, which will make a difference. As for shared video memory, that only applies to certain crippled motherboard-based GPUs. If you have an actual videocard, its gig (or half-gig or whatever) of RAM does not count against the 2.5 gig–3 gig limit in XP.

I thought the limit was 3.5 with the last 0.5 being the Windows stuff moved from the harddrive virtual memory and onto the ram. (Which would speed windows and your harddrive speed)

I think it's ~3.2 Gb (XP SP2 and later), the rest is taken for addressing PCI cards and devices.

It'd be more like £50-£60 to get 2GB of RAM that matches what I've got; moving to 4GB of the kind of RAM which costs £30ish would be something of a sidestep and likely wouldn't help that much. I've got corsair XMS6400 800Mhz DDR2 at the moment, and at the time of buying that was one step below their uber high end Dominator sticks. That still seems to be the case; it's still being made and the timings etc are all still very high on the scale. That's how I've managed so well with 2GB; smaller and faster can beat larger and slower.

I can afford to do that. I won't be happy doing it unless there's a real difference; I'd prefer to spend the money on something else or save it for a rainy day if the difference is only going to be minor.

I've got an 8800 GTS, not the king of cards like it used to be but still more than capable of running most things at high settings. I feel that with Civ 5 and a few other forthcoming games I have some interest in it's my CPU and RAM that are beginning to hold things back. A bit of looking around shows that the E6600 is great for overclocking so I can probably boost that from 2.4 up to something like 2.8-3.0 without needing additional cooling etc.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Like LEN said, you should see an extra gig, which will make a difference. As for shared video memory, that only applies to certain crippled motherboard-based GPUs. If you have an actual videocard, its gig (or half-gig or whatever) of RAM does not count against the 2.5 gig–3 gig limit in XP.

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Actually, your video memory still has to be addressed. Meaning it probably will take yet another bite out of your 4GB maximum.

This is from an HP whitepaper:

The largest block of addresses is allocated for today’s high performance graphics cards which need addresses for at least the amount of memory on the graphics card. The net result is that a high performance x86-based computer may allocate 512 MB to more than 1 GB for the PCI memory address range before any RAM (physical user memory) addresses are allocated.

Froggy, if you're lucky, you'll see 3GB at the most if you install 4GB. Personally, I don't think 4gigs of RAM on a 32bit system is that good an investment. I guess if you have no plans of any future upgrades and want to squeeze everything you possibly can out of your current system, go for it. But I wouldn't expect any big performance gains. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

It'd be more like £50-£60 to get 2GB of RAM that matches what I've got; moving to 4GB of the kind of RAM which costs £30ish would be something of a sidestep and likely wouldn't help that much. I've got corsair XMS6400 800Mhz DDR2 at the moment, and at the time of buying that was one step below their uber high end Dominator sticks. That still seems to be the case; it's still being made and the timings etc are all still very high on the scale. That's how I've managed so well with 2GB; smaller and faster can beat larger and slower.

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Alright, I been looking around, my usual supplier has a problem with the fact they all moved over to DDR3, hence you can get better DDR3 prices then DDR2, but even then, 2GB is still around £30-40 which seems to match what you got.

The closest they have to yours (make and stat wise):
Corsair XMS2 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 6400C5 TwinX Dual Channel (TWIN2X4096-6400C5C) 800Mhz is £82.24

But even then, you can get:
Kingston HyperX 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 8500C5 1066MHz Dual Channel (KHX8500D2K2/4G) for £75

Which is better and cheaper.

So it really depends on your supplier, but if you are looking at £50-60, you are getting ripped off. Though, I don't recommend looking at DDR3 prices, they will make you cry at how cheap that is.

Corsair XMS3 6GB 2GB DDR3 16000C9 2000MHz Triple-channel is only £45

Here's a dumb question: Why not migrate the machine over the Windows 7 64-bit and use all the RAM you like? I know, Win7 is pricey off the rack, but surely you can access a student package, or talk to your geek friends and see who has an extra license. Heck, I know a guy who just dropped three licenses he wasn't using on another friend. You just have to get hooked up.

Yes, Windows Vista was painful, but 7 makes up for all of that. It really is a lovely OS. Go ahead, make the move.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Froggy, if you're lucky, you'll see 3GB at the most if you install 4GB. Personally, I don't think 4gigs of RAM on a 32bit system is that good an investment. I guess if you have no plans of any future upgrades and want to squeeze everything you possibly can out of your current system, go for it. But I wouldn't expect any big performance gains.

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I can neither justify or afford a big upgrade. I'm looking for a smaller, cheaper way to give the machine a bit more oomph and keep it a solid gaming machine for another year or so. It's mainly for civ 5 and a couple of forthcoming games; I'm slipping towards the middleground between recommended and minimum in memory and CPU.

CPU, er not keen. It's a more expensive option, it's a harder DIY upgrade and I don't want to get involved, and it doesn't seem like moving to a faster core2duo or a quadcore would really give that much oomph in return for the cost and pain. Plus my current CPU is meant to be great for overclocking so I can get extra power without spending.

RAM. Cheap, easy, a doddle to fit, would relieve the main bottleneck. There's the 32bit memory limit which makes it a less straightforward move than it otherwise would be.

I hoped a combo of extra memory and some overclocking would provide a decent bit of oopmh. If not, I'm kind of left looking at rebuilding half the machine and that's too expensive and too much bother to be worthwhile right now.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Assorted

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I don't know if my board will take DDR3. I might as well post the beast's entire specs rather than just posting the mobo. Here they are, copied and pasted from the order confirmation email:

1 x BB-C2D6PB Barebones Bundles Intel E6600 Core2Duo Heatsink and Fan, 1024mb DDR2 667 Ram, MSI Intel 975X PCI Express motherboard (NB: I removed the RAM listed here; too slow to work with my corsair stuff)

1 x BFG-88GTS BFG GeForce 8800GTS 640MB HDCP Enabled Dual DVI PCI Express (500MHz Core Clock) (1600MHz Memory Clock) (1200MHz Shader Clock)

1 x CSR-X642G Corsair XMS6400 2GB DDR2 (2x1GB) 800Mhz Non-ECC

Beast because I dubbed the machine froggy's beast when I built it 3 1/2 years ago. It was beastly indeed; still plays everything I throw at it on higher settings and smoothly. Everything except civ 5. Some future game specs look concerning.

The prices come from novatech's site; I've used them for most of my PC parts for years and their prices have always beaten the other sites I looked at. They also come out ahead in other areas such as delivery and customer service. Their 4GB 2x2GB kits is £74.99; I can't see the point of spending extra on 4GB when I can save a bit of money and not have parts left over with no use.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Here's a dumb question: Why not migrate the machine over the Windows 7 64-bit and use all the RAM you like?

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Two reasons:
1.It's £95! I don't have any way to get a cheap or free version; I know no one else who uses it, and no students either. It's full price or nothing. I then wouldn't be able to get the RAM until the next month; I'm very boring about making sure I budget well.

2. I have a lot of programs which would have been broken by Vista and so I assume they would also be broken by 7. Some would definitely be broken by a directx version above 9. I could dual boot; it's a pain in the rear and I don't want to go through the slog of wiping my current setup and having to rebuild everything .... in duplicate.

Uhm, I've tested it myself(sort of, many, many moons ago with DDR1 or so), and I have seen tests that suggest the performance "boost" of DDR2 800MHz over DDR2 667MHz is negligible(thus smaller and faster is not better than more but slower), around 2% or so. If you still have that 1GB stick lying around I suggest you try whether you can plug that in and see what that feels like. Both RAMs would work at the lower speeds then I guess, but I did that back when I still had DDR1 and it worked. That's if your mainboard accepts the two different RAM sticks of course, there may be mainboards that don't, and it wouldn't cost you anything, if there is no gain that way you can still buy new ones.

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

I can neither justify or afford a big upgrade. I'm looking for a smaller, cheaper way to give the machine a bit more oomph and keep it a solid gaming machine for another year or so. It's mainly for civ 5 and a couple of forthcoming games; I'm slipping towards the middleground between recommended and minimum in memory and CPU.

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Then another GB of RAM/ a better socket 775 CPU (i.e. Core2Duo or Core2Quad)/good SSD best bets. That's listed in terms of decreasing “cheap” and increasing “long term improvement”.

Out of those only RAM is truly the “cheap” option. A CPU is quickly about as expensive as Windows, and a good SSD is easily more expensive than that.

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CPU, er not keen. It's a more expensive option, it's a harder DIY upgrade and I don't want to get involved, and it doesn't seem like moving to a faster core2duo or a quadcore would really give that much oomph in return for the cost and pain. Plus my current CPU is meant to be great for overclocking so I can get extra power without spending.

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There is more to CPU upgrades than just a faster clock setting. Some things cannot be overclocked out of your existing one. Improvements in actual hardware for instance.

Cache size is something to eyeball here: the bigger it is the more data will fit, and a CPU cache miss means a round trip to RAM which is easily a factor of 1000 or so more time consuming. All Core2Duo's seem to offer lush pastures for those who would attempt overclocking, and all such components come with similar TDP ratings (65W) which means they ought to produce roughly the same amount of heat.

I'd agree with Hussar in saying that it is better to have more RAM than to have less but more fancy RAM (unless that fancy happens to be ECC). RAM running at lower than its maximum performance is still better than a round trip to disk, and 2GB is simply not such a lot of RAM anymore. :shrug: I'd go for 3GB if you don't want to run a 64bit OS and want to upgrade now. Either a 2x512MB kit or a 1x1GB one.

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

[Windows 7] £95! I don't have any way to get a cheap or free version; I know no one else who uses it, and no students either. It's full price or nothing.

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As the local plumber would say, there's your problem, lady. You need some geek friends. There's nothing quite like being able to pick up the phone and ask a buddy if he's got a spare hard drive, 120mm fan or Acrobat license. It is imperative that you socialize with some full-time network/IT/hardware geeks and become buds. You'd be amazed at the benefits that you reap from buying a system builder a few beers.

This is much more important than a RAM upgrade. You must cultivate some geeks, and quickly.

AFAIK this board will support the two different speeds of RAM. I was tempted to leave the other stick in when I built it but was advised to remove it for better performance. I'm not much of a techie so I follow advise. I still have the stick; it's amongst the stuff I left behind at my parents' house when I moved out. I can get it and try it out, maybe next weekend.

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

There is more to CPU upgrades than just a faster clock setting. Some things cannot be overclocked out of your existing one. Improvements in actual hardware for instance.

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True, and I know a better cache is always good. Is it £140 plus pain of installing good? As far as I can see by reading some processor benchmark comparisons it isn't. For something like the E8400 it's around an extra 5FPS on most benchmark tests, on average. Swapping my current core2duo for another doesn't feel like a good investment. I'm quite sure I could go core2quad on this board; again it doesn't feel like a good return for the investment. So few games use all 4 cores I doubt I would see much benefit.

Processors scare me. Other components are like lego. Slot and click, done, maybe a bit of wiring to plug in. Get it wrong and nothing much happens. Easy and I have no problems doing it provided someone warns me of any pitfalls before hand, such as which RAM slot colour needs to be done first. CPUs need thermal paste, are delicate, need fans and heatsinks setting up - all sorts of fiddly things which can go ever so slightly wrong and result in a burned out unit. Extracting the old one doesn't sound like a walk in the park either.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

You must cultivate some geeks, and quickly.

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It's hard to find geeks, and harder still to get most of them to take me seriously. Most of the time, on hearing that I'm a gamer, they give me this flat look, pointedly turn away and start talking to someone else about games, deliberately blanking me. Everybody knows girls don't play games, and if they did they would be about babies, cleaning and dancing, not real games for real gamers. It's only on the internet that I'm able to mix freely. Out of the three who do treat me like any other gamer, none are the PC tinkering type.

I always forget about the different flavor of sexism of Britannia. Here, you'd be swarmed with geeks who adore the fact that you game. You'd be just as irritated, probably, but for different reasons.

Still think a couple of geeks who owe you favors would sort this out instantly. Anybody who builds systems has extra licenses. They buy 'em in bulk, and give away the overage to their peeps.

For the sake of future information - I'll have to go windows 7 eventually - does it have the same effect as vista and break nearly everything that existed prior to its launch? Or did they include decent backwards compatibility this time? Also, would I be able to use directx9 in it?

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

For the sake of future information - I'll have to go windows 7 eventually - does it have the same effect as vista and break nearly everything that existed prior to its launch? Or did they include decent backwards compatibility this time?

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Vista didn't break that much/anything for me so I cannot really comment on this, but 7 has generally been received much better as far as I'm aware.

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

Also, would I be able to use directx9 in it?

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Why wouldn't you?

Not sure how well it runs older games as I don't usually play them anymore, but the higher versions (professional and ultimate I think) come with an XP mode that might help in that regard, haven't tried that though, you may want to look around on the web if that's a big concern for you.

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Originally Posted by Husar

Why wouldn't you?

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Because it comes with directx11 and reverting to an older version of directx has, in my experience, historically proven impossible.

It's a concern because directx10 was the first version to make a conscious break with previous versions. Prior versions were all backwards compatible; 10 was not. That's why I don't have it, despite having a card which supports it and gains extras features if it is present.

I don't know anything about directx11. It's not available for XP.

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Not sure how well it runs older games as I don't usually play them anymore, but the higher versions (professional and ultimate I think) come with an XP mode that might help in that regard, haven't tried that though, you may want to look around on the web if that's a big concern for you.

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That's the real concern. I have a lot of older games that I like to play, and I know many of them were left broken or glitchy in vista or directx10. Since windows 7 postdates them I expect it has the same issues unless microsoft deliberately paid more attention to getting older programs working. That would be a complete turnaround of attitude; when making vists and 10 they were all about focusing on the future and let the past be damned.

I did a quick google on the XP mode. Seems it's useless for gaming as it's intended for business use. Lots of resource bloat and it will not let you utilise your video card.

XP mode is simply virtualisation through HyperV: it entails running XP in a VM while Windows 7 is running alongside it on the same machine (so two OS'es running at the same time on the same hardware). Requires hardware support in your processor (an Intel with the VT feature or an AMD with equivalent feature) to work, also only included in Windows 7 Pro or more expensive -- and as you say only useful for business use.

I play quite a few old games (Win7 pro 64bit) and they work great. Warcraft 2, some early C&C stuff.

Dx9 games work fine, as do DX10 and 11 (275 card)

If you can get hold of an academic address (ends with .ac.uk), you can get Windows 7 professional for £30. Unfortunately, I would be glad to allow you to use mine, but I have already used it to get Secura her copy of Windows 7.
http://www.microsoft.com/uk/education/studentoffer/

You can get Windows 7 Home from Amazon for £60

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Originally Posted by Lemur

I always forget about the different flavor of sexism of Britannia. Here, you'd be swarmed with geeks who adore the fact that you game. You'd be just as irritated, probably, but for different reasons.

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This is far closer to reality here from what I have seen. If anything, there is constant grumbling about the lack of female gamers, as the only female gamers we generally see is some ones girlfriend or wife. Not single and available. I have never witnessed as a case where a female gets shot down, the only time I have seen it is in the case of "newbies", who try to print-screen by putting their monitor on their scanner. I haven't noticed where a female gets looked down upon before, I would love Froggy to turn up at the meets, just to help with the diversity, as the only females are generally avatar-only. :tongue:

Yeah, I have to agree with Lemur, as to my knowledge, female gamers gets millions of "I love you" after just meeting some one, as they are a rare commodity as gold-dust. I even know a couple of guys who have considered homosexually on the basis of the rarity of the mythical female gamer and they want some companionship.

Hmm, well it sounds like less of a disaster than vista. The general word of mouth has been positive since the beta; unfortunately I hadn't seen too much about how it relates to my own concerns, as per above.

£30 for a full version which you can use to reinstall your system if you do a reformat? For that kind of money I'd be willing to give Windows 7 a go, and if it didn't play nicely it wouldn't be too much of a nuisance to wipe it all and do a dual boot setup with XP. I don't know anyone with an .ac.uk address. Bah! I never know the right people.

I must be the wrong kind of geek. ~:( The place I work at has the largest concentration of gamers I've ever encountered, and less than 1/3 show any acceptance. It's absurd. I had to sit and listen to a group of them discussing how impossible it is to get all the achievements in the xbox version of mass effect; I've done that and it's not hard. Another time one of them was asking one of the three who will talk to me about a game; the nice guy suggested that he ask me about it since I'd played it. The response? "Oh, I'm not interested in it anyway. It must be rubbish." That's not what he was saying seconds before, and a week later he was saying he'd brought it. A couple of weeks ago I was stuck having some of the ignorant ones talk over and around me because they jumped into a conversation I was having with one of the three. I got shut out by weight of numbers. Loads more expamples I won't bore you with. The irony? Out of all of them I'm the hardest of the hardcore.

At my previous job it was better; most of them accepted me as just another gamer. Before that, nightmare. During school, college and university a grand total of one male accepted me, and he was the nice guy sort who would struggle to be anything less than nice to anyone. Every single other one was outright hostile. The other gamers I knew back then were girls, 4 of them.

Wow, some of those people have a problem. It isn't typical with the crowds I have mixed with, which I jested about in my earlier post.

Yeah, it is reformatable. Only problem is if you try to use the key on different computers, you have to phone up microsoft.

Of course I'd suggest getting a 64 bit OS, preferably Win7 as it doesn't gobble System memory merely to use Graphic memory. Getting more GB ram is IMO a no brainer certainly to 4 GB. I've played X-Com on Win 7 without a problem.

Other things you can do to save admittedly tiny amounts of memory are to disable things such as serial and parallel ports in the BIOS. It's free, quick to do and as it's very important memory.

~:smoking:

I'm going to try adding the surplus old RAM this weekend. If that doesn't do the trick I think I will be looking at windows 7 plus 4GB new RAM to add to my 2GB, for a total of 6GB.

Project Old RAM has failed abjectly. The PC won't start up with it added. I've tried twice, and it's been done correctly both times. All RAM removed, wait 2 minutes, insert RAM starting from the left and working right ensuring the green slots are filled first and that the two varieties end up in the correct paired slots. The catches at the end of each slot went down so the sticks weren't too loose or the wrong way around.

Both times the PC failed to boot. I turned it on, heard the fans go into overdrive, and then the PC turned itself off. Seconds later it turns itself on and the cycle repeats. I'm reverting to my original setup now and hopefully that will get the machine working again.

Any suggestions?

If you have been overclocking or fiddling with RAM settings (CAS latency the like) and you rather think that the old RAM is still good (IOW: undamaged) then reverting to factory default settings (possibly clearing CMOS data using a reset button/jumper if you have it) might help. BIOS updates from the motherboard vendor might too. Or the RAM might just be damaged from whatever happened to it at your parents.

Reverting to my original 2GB of corsair RAM has the PC up and running again.

The old RAM has never been used. It came as part of my barebones bundle and I was recommended to remove it because my purchased RAM is faster. It's been sat in the plastic package that my corsair stuff came in for 3 1/2 years in dry, room temp conditions. It should be ok. I know it used to work because I powered up the barebones when it arrived to check it worked before I started fiddling with it.

I don't know. I've pulled the PC to bits repeatedly today and it's failed to work each time the extra 1GB is in there. At this point it might be better to give up and go the windows 7 plus 4GB of RAM to bring me to a total of 6GB. :considers cost of window 7: Or give up playing civ 5!


EDIT: Bah! Considering the barriers I'm running into and the gains I'll get across the board, I have decided that I'll go with the windows 7 plus 4GB extra RAM option. This XP install is getting doddery anyway, and if I'm going to do a reinstall I may as well do one which is more future proof instead of one which will repeat the same issues. I'll do a dual boot so anything which doesn't work with 7 can go on XP. If I order now I'll have everything for Tuesday.

I really, really hope you aren't compelled to pay full retail for Win7. Work your connections! Call in favors! Make absurd promises!

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Originally Posted by Lemur

I really, really hope you aren't compelled to pay full retail for Win7. Work your connections! Call in favors! Make absurd promises!

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The best I could manage was the discount for buying online.


So. Anyone know of a decent rough guide to 7? Looks like a lot has changed in terms of UI and function locations. There's always a tonne of useless junk to disable or remove after a windows install; a guide to that would be nice too.

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

So. Anyone know of a decent rough guide to 7? Looks like a lot has changed in terms of UI and function locations. There's always a tonne of useless junk to disable or remove after a windows install; a guide to that would be nice too.

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There are fairly useful:
85 Windows 7 Tips, Tricks and Secrets
The Master List of Windows 7 Shortcuts

I think you'll get to like Win7 pretty quickly. :yes:

To answer the question of RAM and XP, I can confirm it won't see the full 4GB because it deducts video memory from the total. I just added the extra 4GB, and booted up to check it is fitted correctly. Windows tells me that I have 3.25GB of RAM. If you add my video card' memory and do a bit of leeway for error the total would be 4GB.

Now, time to reformat and install 7. I hate doing this - every single time I reinstall there's the nagging feeling that I forgot to back something up ...

"Your PC, simplified." They aren't lying - my PC is now so simplified it doesn't know it's a PC. Yay.

It won't install. It locks up during the early stages of 'expanding files' every single time. The furthest I have got is 24%, and that's exceptional. Yes, locks up. No, not is taking a long time to do anything. Total and complete lock up - animation stops, the cursor won't move, my DVD and HD spin down, and no matter how long I leave it nothing happens. I've left it for 35 minutes in that state and nothing happened.

I'm now looking at 2 hours of repeatedly failed installs. 6 attempts.

I've tried removing all of my RAM and only inserting my original sticks. No joy. I've tried removing it all and only adding my new sticks. No joy. I've been searching the internet for a solution. No joy. All I've got is a £100 holographic coaster and no PC. Thank heaven I have a macbook too.

What a pile of garbage :angry:

Are you completely reformatting your drive during the install or just doing a quick format? You may also want to check if your BIOS is out of date. I always hate to have to flash my BIOS, but the modern flash utilities usually make the job pretty fool proof.

EDIT: Here is a thread full of purported solutions.

The last BIOS update for my board dates to the time I was building my PC, so hopefully it's up to date. I'll check tomorrow.

I'm letting windows handle the reformat so I guess it is quick. I have to format every time I try to install because it detects the fraction of the OS it did manage to install and says it needs to be deleted else it will shove it into a junk folder called 'old windows'. I don't want useless fragments of broken OSs littering my PC. NB: I'm having to launch the install by setting my BIOS to boot from CD first. It wouldn't install when I tried to do it from my XP desktop as mentioned in the instruction manual. I believe that's because I have 32bit XP and was using the 64bit install disc.

I have tried installing 32bit windows 7 to see if that could narrow the problems down. It did exactly the same thing.

I've checked my hardware on the compatibility site. It's ok.

I've read through a load of threads from that site, but not that linked one. Found a couple of things to try overall - RAM settings tweaks (currently on defaults) and so on, and that hypertransport thingy mentioned in your topic. Ejecting the CD is something simple to try too; someone said it worked for them.

:sigh: Why on earth should it be so difficult? I have standard hardware in a standard enough configuration, and I've never had any problems installing windows since 3.1. It's one of the few things I can hand on heart say it has always got right.

Hmm, I don't remember trying to move the mouse, I'm not even sure there was a cursor but I remember it stood for a very long time at a certain percentage for me, too.
You might want to try leaving it for 2 hours instead of "just" 35 minutes. If that doesn't help and it really locks up then hmm, I'd suspect either a problem with the disc or your hardware, which would be weird considering it ran fine before. Perhaps you could get a replacement for the disc and see whether that works(I've had a disc of a game replaced before because it didn't install, turned out to be a problem with my DVD drive in the end though that was only there with that disc and maybe one other disc)?

Fixed it. What a nightmare.

Yup, it was definitely locked up. Dead as a door nail. I could have left it forever and it wouldn't have gotten any further. It was as obvious as could be - the cursor wouldn't move, the progress dots stopped, the DVD drive and my hard drive span down to idle mode and there it sat. Didn't even bat an eyelid when I ejected the disc.

So what did fix it? I tried a few things from that link, and my third selection from that list was the tip about disabling speedstep in my BIOS. Once I did that it installed the entire thing in 20 minutes flat. How terribly, terribly stupid; it should never have been a problem and Microsoft should have made sure their fancy new OS with much-touted advanced processor support actually supported the basic features of those CPUs. I'll re-enable it tomorrow, put back the rest of my RAM, and try to get this machine into working order.

I can't find a thing! I can't even find where to get the basic overview of my PC's tech stats so I can check the RAM is being detected. And how can I make the fuzzy text go away? It's using the correct resolution and downloaded drivers for my video card so I don't see the immediate cause.

For now I need to sleep. I'm shattered and have to be up for work tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

For the sake of future information - I'll have to go windows 7 eventually - does it have the same effect as vista and break nearly everything that existed prior to its launch? Or did they include decent backwards compatibility this time? Also, would I be able to use directx9 in it?

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It's does break a number of programs. Howeve, get Win7 Pro x64. It comes with an XP mode that enables greater compatibility.

A bit late to the party, Psychonaut; she already bought and installed her version of Win7.

All your administrative utilities are in the Control Panel, but you'll probably be using the search box in the Start Menu a lot as a more direct route to whatever it is you want to use/run. Basic settings like theme can be accessed by right clicking the desktop. It's also worth setting up the start menu to your liking, IIRC that's done via right clicking the taskbar and selecting the appropriate option.

Pleased to hear you're going for Win 7. You'll never look back.

~:smoking:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

A bit late to the party, Psychonaut; she already bought and installed her version of Win7.

---

Doh. Did the same thing with my brother, told him to get Win7 Pro, but he'd already made the purchase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

I can't find a thing!

---

You like sandbox games, don't you? Well, this is your new one. ~;)

Otherwise, what Tellos said, it's different from XP, but that's the point, if it were the same you'd wonder why they made you pay that much for it, the search function in the start menu is really quite nice, you should try it.

Ok, just back and started on finishing my setup. So far not much of as windows 7 fan - it's giving me trouble at every step.

First item on the list: restore boot order to HD only, enable speedstep. Done.

First program on my list: firewall. The PC locked up at 46% installed. Gah! Two questions: What's the problem with speedstep? How on earth can I delete the partial install of zonealarm? The installer won't let me install over the top of the old one, and I don't want to make things more broken by deleting the folder.

Next job on the list: get firefox running so I can ditch IE, which is slow, painful, blurry, scrolls randomly, is awkward to navigate, glitchy, and hideous in all imaginable ways and forms. Problem: firefox won't detect my internet connection. IE does, as I'm here right now.

Help please. :help:

Psychonaut the XP mode is useless for my needs. It's for business programs only and can't run anything I actually own.

Other than "Zone Alarm? Are you mad?!" (which could also be the problem for firefox, since it is a hideous programme), I don't understand what you are doing to cause problems.

Part of the firewall troubles could be in that Windows 7 already comes with a firewall of its own aptly named “Windows Firewall”. So you probably can ditch Zone Alarm and use Windows Firewall instead, or alternatively disable Windows Firewall entirely (which I have never done, but should be possible through the Installed Software thing of the Control Panel). Incidentally uninstalling software can be done through that panel as well.

Exactly, I've heard mostly about problems with regards to ZoneAlarm, I use the Windows firewall as well, seems to work just fine.

Concerning speed step, I have an AMD phenom with some NVidia chipset and it doesn't adjust CPU speed in either Windows Vista or 7, neither did my old Core 2 Duo E6600. Vista introduced some new way of energy and speed management and apparently those motherboards are incompatible. I would guess that your mainboard might be incompatible as well but instead of just running at full speed all the time actually causes some problems, perhaps it does change the clock speed without windows knowing about it (due to incompatible interfaces or so), causing such lockups, or perhaps something is actually broken that wasn't really used in XP (like whatever is responsible for speedstep to work in Windows 7). I'm just guessing here, I have no detailed knowledge about this, but the whole deal works fine on my laptop that came with Vista preinstalled, I'd suspect and incompatibility of some sort, or maybe a "minor" flaw(minor as in doesn't prevent the PC from running at all), the USB and network ports on my laptop seem to crash out of nowhere sometimes, other days they work fine for hours, one of the reasons I won't buy MSI anymore. :shrug:

Firefox may be getting blocked from accessing the internet by Zonealarm. Zonealarm is crapware, get rid that first.

Try the removal tool: http://download.zonealarm.com/bin/fr...cpes_clean.exe

If that doesn't work then something like this should be able to remove it: http://www.appremover.com/

Reboot after removal.

Phew. Lots of work. Some solutions, some new issues, lots of learning, and I've managed to find a whole 2 things I like about the entire OS.

Did a system restore to take me back to the fresh install stage. Then I approached matters in a slightly different order. Full windows updates first, reboot, install antivirus, install firefox, check it works, install a few other bits and bobs, everything was fine. Well, except for the fuzzy text, firefox insisting on starting in safe mode and discarding my preferences every time, and a few dozen other annoyances, plus the fact I'm wandering the interface like a lost tourist minus map and phrase book.

Fixed the fuzzy text (font smoothing!) after about an hour of option hunting, fixed the firefox stuck in safemode thing after loads more work, finally made some of the folder and data presentation options less obnoxious, did yet more updates, moved a few backup files from the old PC over to this one, tried out the new version of media player and loathed it (I liked 10; it had some features which were perfect for the way I use it) so got winamp instead as it does something similar but not quite as good as what I liked about MP10, and defragged C: very thoroughly. Phew.

Now I have a mostly working basic OS setup. After this I can try for some of the advanced stuff. Checking directx and video drivers are up to date, testing out a game, getting my writing tools set up, etc.

The two features I like? The presentation of data in the 'my computer' section. You know, the one with the bars under the HDs showing how much space is used up, what system specs are, etc. I used to have to do a bunch of clicking on several screens to get that same gather of info. The other is pinning things to the taskbar. Reminds me of a favoured feature on my macbook.

I use zonealarm because I've only had 1 problem with it in 6-7 years of use; I started using it shortly after I joined up here because it got recommended so often. It played nicely with everything else I had; I use it mainly to control programs dialing out. I'm open to recommendations for a replacement, provided the program is free.

I'll do the removal tool tomorrow. System restore should have gotten the hooks out of other files and left it as so much useless data but I don't trust system restore one bit; it's obviously improved a lot since XP's version but that's hardly saying much. I found that version to be more useful if it was left turned off!


Next question: what's the game browser like for actual use? In theory it sounds handy. In reality? Does it do a decent job of finding patches, finding the right patches, and finding them for a wide range of games instead of just the big names? Anything else useful it can do? Or is it a glorified folder which wants to be like steam?


This thing needs a manual. The little help boxes you can bring up are decent but it's not the same as being able to get a full overview of what you can do and how, then heading off to apply that base knowledge to learn more advanced stuff. :yes:

Forget about the Game browser, I never used it. Some games don't even appear in it. Never used it in the 4 years of contact with it. I just disabled it.

Microsoft does have its own free anti-virus as well.

I will tell you now, for the love of everything, do not install games/steam/etc in programs. Do a folder on the harddrive you have your games on, called \Games\, for example, "C:\Games\". Other than making it very easy and helpful you have your games separate from your programs, it will save you lots of heartache, due to inbuilt Microsoft security.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

I will tell you now, for the love of everything, do not install games/steam/etc in programs.

---

I run a dual hard drive setup. C: is for windows and core programs; D: gets everything else. Amazing setup which I first used by semi accident; I needed a bigger HD because DVD based games had made install sizes go through the roof overnight but did not want to lose everything in a reformat. Way back then we had a local PC shop and they were damned good. They suggested a secondary HD, I reluctantly agreed thinking it would be weird, and within a few days of use I loved it. So many advantages! Nowadays it is a flat out requirement; I will not own a PC with only one HD.

Steam and my games sat on D: untouched during this entire process. All I did was run steam.exe from that folder and it worked for a bit to repair itself; it's now fully functional and I didn't have to reinstall any games. That's a useful feature.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

I run a dual hard drive setup. C: is for windows and core programs; D: gets everything else. Amazing setup which I first used by semi accident; I needed a bigger HD because DVD based games had made install sizes go through the roof overnight but did not want to lose everything in a reformat. Way back then we had a local PC shop and they were damned good. They suggested a secondary HD, I reluctantly agreed thinking it would be weird, and within a few days of use I loved it. So many advantages! Nowadays it is a flat out requirement; I will not own a PC with only one HD.

Steam and my games sat on D: untouched during this entire process. All I did was run steam.exe from that folder and it worked for a bit to repair itself; it's now fully functional and I didn't have to reinstall any games. That's a useful feature.

---

That's good. :beam:

I did similar, but the problem I have now, Seagate want me to return the harddrive, since it is apparently faulty. The issue with that is, it is a terrabyte drive, and it is 700gigs full. My on-computer harddrive is 500gigs total.

Yeah.. not too impressed with that. They don't even send a replacement first, which I would have thought was obvious. >_>

:sigh: Latest problem. I have directx11 installed. Every game I try to play won't run, citing "You do not have d3dx9_41.dll installed". I've tried doing a DX update during the installation of one of these games, and it failed for unknown reasons. So now I'm left attempting a manual fix. Why can nothing in this infuriating OS just work? Every single step no matter how minor has turned into a freaking paper chase! That's why, on day 3, I'm only just beginning to install stuff like games. Gah!

Which reminds me, when I installed the patch for victoria 2 I got a useless windows nag popup telling me that windows wasn't sure if everything had gone ok because windows is a paranoid old granny with no tech sense. How can I kill that? I never want to see it again.

EDIT:GAH!! And now the directx update I attempting using microsofts own latest directx end user runtime failed instantly with no reasons given.

Much more of this and I am going to return my gaming favours to my xbox for the near future - civ 5 et al can go hang!

At this point the only thing keeping me from reformating and returning to XP is the money investment. I didn't buy that RAM and fork out for this torture on a fancy disc in order to use XP with an extra 1.5GB. I hate windows 7. It's a feeling which grows with each hour of use. Or should that be abuse?

Ok. Directx fixed. Another hour down the toilet with little to show for it. Yet more illogical, senseless problems fixed by doing nothing much other than repeat the same step over and over until windows realises it's meant to do something. I have to fight for every single tiny step forward and it's exhausting.

Next problem. It's simple. I want to be able to get at my games quickly and easily. Since I'm now starting to install them I want to get that solution set up and work with it as I go. Fine. No problem. Easy, right? Easier than in XP thanks to all these fancy interface improvements and that games folder and so on. Right?

No.

The games folder is useless and hasn't automatically picked up anything I've installed so far. Manually creating the shortcut is a pain in the rear. It also won't let me organise the links how I want. I want things split up by genre. I don't want some great fat mass of 50+ alpha order icons.

So how about desktop icons? I used to use them as my primary access method. Problem: default size has icons roughly the same size as the tiles on my roof. I hate large icons, and I hate cluttered desktops. So I hit google and find you you can re-size the icons by holding control and using the mouse wheel. Great, problem solved, right? No. It only applies to icons already on your desktop. New ones are still huge. Attempting to resize via ctrl+mouse affects everything equally, so everything is stuck being different sizes. Now I have to bin a bunch of icons in order to get everything back the same size.

Ok, last resort. Start menu folders. My old secondary access method. One folder called games which needs to go on the first part of the start menu, then various genre folders inside it which house links to the games. problem: can't create any folders whatsoever. Problem the second: moving the existing games folder causes windows to whine at me and delete the start menu entry when I try to use it because "It isn't in the right location" No - that's because it's where I want it!

Also, please stop using this awful, awful list view for every folder on the computer. It's hard to find things. My eyes don't like it much either. I like tiles. Tiles! That's why I always choose it. Oh, wait - in windows 7 the choice only applies to a single folder. No global setting. Or if there is it's buried somewhere daft. So I have to toggle every last folder on the machine manually, or use a view I detest.

So I can't organise my stuff at all, can't access anything quickly, and generally am running slap bang into yet more stupid, inane barriers. Now I see why steam is so popular - it's the only way I currently have to arrange anything in a half decent manner.

:lam:

I'm out of patience, will, and generally don't give a damn any more. I'm out of all possible interest in playing anything on my PC or even using it for anything. It's too much trouble. Far, far more than it's worth.

And somebody please, please tell me how to get firefox to recognise English spelling. I am not interested in becoming American and I'm mighty tired of seeing it class my language as an error! It didn't do this before. I turn spellcheck off and it insists on turning itself back on. Joy. Boundless, endless joy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

Also, please stop using this awful, awful list view for every folder on the computer. It's hard to find things. My eyes don't like it much either. I like tiles. Tiles! That's why I always choose it. Oh, wait - in windows 7 the choice only applies to a single folder. No global setting. Or if there is it's buried somewhere daft. So I have to toggle every last folder on the machine manually, or use a view I detest.

---

Right Click > Properties > Customize > Tick 'Also apply this template to all subfolders'
or alt, tools, Folder Options, for setting up things for more you like it.

As for the majority of your problems, I never experienced anything of the sort.

Did you do a clean reformat?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Right Click > Properties > Customize > Tick 'Also apply this template to all subfolders'
or alt, tools, Folder Options, for setting up things for more you like it.

---

Tried it. Doesn't work. I still get the nasty list view everywhere. In some places I don't even get the customise option.

Unless I'm doing it wrong? I right click->view->tiles. Right click again->customise->apply to all subfolders.

Quote:

---

Did you do a clean reformat?

---

Yes. Reformated before the first install attempt, and a great many times after that before I managed to get the OS to install successfully. I deleted the old system partition too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

And somebody please, please tell me how to get firefox to recognise English spelling. I am not interested in becoming American and I'm mighty tired of seeing it class my language as an error! It didn't do this before. I turn spellcheck off and it insists on turning itself back on. Joy. Boundless, endless joy.

---

Go to tools add-ons, search for "dictionary" and install the British dictionary.

I don't have anything good to say about Vista/7 so :lipsrsealed:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caravel

Go to tools add-ons, search for "dictionary" and install the British dictionary.

---

Let's test this out. Centre, civilisation, programme ... no red, oh true joy! :jumping:

Now, to find a way to get windows to display folders how I want them and let me arrange my shortcuts. :stares at desktop: I google for instructions, try them out, and they don't work. :sigh: So often the same series of problems. Either something is missing in the chain of location instructions, or the setting doesn't change anything, or the change won't stick, or the change won't apply outside of a single location.

If I can just crack these final two points I might begin to find 7 bearable.


EDIT: here's an example. I see that to add folders to the start menu I need to go to C:\Users\USER\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\S tart Menu\Programs. I can go as far as users\froggy and that's it. There's no AppData. It's not hidden either. It's just not there.

GAH! And I notice typing this that I'm back with American spelling. British dictionary add-on is still installed and running. ~:mecry:

Why. Can. Nothing. Work?! :wall:

Ok. Had enough. Will finish reading my stuff on the internet and crawl away to play on my xbox or something. :blankg:

I know it doesn't solve your problem, but I can verify that what you describe with icons being different sizes does not occur on any Win7 install I have used. For me, I can resize the icons with the CTRL+scroll method and any additional icons I place on the desktop are the same size as all the others.

On a more helpful note, for organizing desktop icons, I've become a fan of Fences. It lets you organize and hide your icons in "fences" on your desktop. You can even stuff more icons in a fence than it has area to hold and will be given a scroll bar to view them all. Might be worth a look.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

EDIT: here's an example. I see that to add folders to the start menu I need to go to C:\Users\USER\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\S tart Menu\Programs. I can go as far as users\froggy and that's it. There's no AppData. It's not hidden either. It's just not there.

---

Well some folders are just more hidden than others. But it's not a phantom, it exists for real and you have it too: the easiest way to access it is by typing the full path in the location/breadcrumb bar thing at the top of the Explorer. Double click it and it should change into a simple text field wherein you can type the path to the directory you would like to go, hit enter and get there. So if you are Froggy to your Windows, then C:\Users\Froggy\AppData\ would get you there. In case like me (C:\Users\Tellos Athenaios\AppData\) that is somewhat more than you care to type, %UserProfile%\AppData\ will work too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

I know it doesn't solve your problem, but I can verify that what you describe with icons being different sizes does not occur on any Win7 install I have used. For me, I can resize the icons with the CTRL+scroll method and any additional icons I place on the desktop are the same size as all the others.

---

I wonder if the difference is down to a setting somewhere?

I also wonder if this install is faintly borked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Well some folders are just more hidden than others. But it's not a phantom, it exists for real and you have it too: the easiest way to access it is by typing the full path in the location/breadcrumb bar thing at the top of the Explorer. Double click it and it should change into a simple text field wherein you can type the path to the directory you would like to go, hit enter and get there. So if you are Froggy to your Windows, then C:\Users\Froggy\AppData\ would get you there. In case like me (C:\Users\Tellos Athenaios\AppData\) that is somewhat more than you care to type, %UserProfile%\AppData\ will work too.

---

Oh thank heaven, something worked at last. I did have to try repeatedly before it worked; to begin with it kept saying it couldn't find the folder.

Now, why did no one say you had to do this in the instructions? Everywhere I saw it mentioned the folder was implied to be in plain sight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

EDIT: Bah! Considering the barriers I'm running into and the gains I'll get across the board, I have decided that I'll go with the windows 7 plus 4GB extra RAM option.

---

Did you at any point actually clear the BIOS (usually you have to shunt a jumper near the battery on the mobo)? When adding new RAM, especially of a different speed rating, some mobos get very picky when the old stuff is still installed - unless the CMOS is cleared completely. You might not need to get quite as drastic as your proposed solution - then again, maybe you will have to resort the the change, hopefully not.

I installed Windows 7 a few days ago, but unfortunately I can't offer much assistance since my install was swift and pain free and so far I'm liking Windows 7 more than XP. Your file view problem however can be solved by setting the view that you want in the current folder you have open then clicking:

organise > folder and search options > view > apply to all

I didn't like the details view so I changed all files to small icons.

Mixed progress.

The C:\Users\Froggy\AppData\ thing has been a semi dead end. Adding a folder to the start menu doesn't function in the same way it used to. I can't follow it along in the start menu to get the shortcut I want. Instead I have to click it and it opens up the folder itself in a new window. I guess I can dump genre folders in there and stash my game shortcuts in there. Thing is, it's terribly clumsy solution.

So: does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get my games organised for quick, easy access while having them filed how I want them instead of how windows wants them?

The firefox British dictionary only works in some places. It works when making a new quick post here, for example, but not when making a new advanced post or editing one. Is it meant to work like that?

Winamp doesn't offer any of the (small!) selection of things I want and actually makes my life more awkward, so I got rid of it. Back to the build in media player, which also doesn't offer what I need but which is slightly better. Where can I get a media player which does all of the following:
1. Places a small control bar on the taskbar or similar so that I can pause or tweak volume without changing window focus.
2. Has a large library window that lets me list files according to file path location.
3. Lets me play a single track on endless loop after selecting to play it from my library.

Media player 10 did all of the above and was great because of it. Media player 12 only does 2; supposedly it does 1 but it doesn't really work, and for 3 it actually expects you to do a search for the individual track and run it from there instead of just double-clicking the listing right in front of your face! Talk about backwards design.

Or can I use media player 10 in windows 7? I can't find a compatibility listing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miotas

organise > folder and search options > view > apply to all.

---

It actually works where all the other methods for doing that failed! :weeps for sheer joy: May be now I will be able to find things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geezer57

Did you at any point actually clear the BIOS (usually you have to shunt a jumper near the battery on the mobo)?

---

Yes, I'd tried that.

I think now it may have been a fault with the RAM sticks, since I've had no difficulties with the new sticks I brought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

Winamp doesn't offer any of the (small!) selection of things I want

---

I doubt it because WinAmp falls squarely in the “everything and the kitchen sink” approach of software building. But it is not at all like the simple media player that simply plays whatever you tell it to do, so I guess removing it was a good idea.

That said...

Quote:

---

Back to the build in media player, which also doesn't offer what I need but which is slightly better. Where can I get a media player which does all of the following:
1. Places a small control bar on the taskbar or similar so that I can pause or tweak volume without changing window focus.
2. Has a large library window that lets me list files according to file path location.
3. Lets me play a single track on endless loop after selecting to play it from my library.

---

I'm not sure on (2) [it's large but does it ordering by file path?], because I don't really use VLC for it but VLC certainly does (1) and (3).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

Back to the build in media player, which also doesn't offer what I need but which is slightly better. Where can I get a media player which does all of the following:
1. Places a small control bar on the taskbar or similar so that I can pause or tweak volume without changing window focus.
2. Has a large library window that lets me list files according to file path location.
3. Lets me play a single track on endless loop after selecting to play it from my library.

---

Default Player -

1. Can go one better, you can set it to keyboard commands, so you don't even does a taskbar.
2. It automatically sorts it by artist, album, etc. Not location however. Even then, you can just to go the said location and click play from there.
3. Default player can do this -
Select Track > Right Click > Play

You can even do it with multiple selected, or even your entire collection. It is entirely up to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

Also, please stop using this awful, awful list view for every folder on the computer. It's hard to find things. My eyes don't like it much either. I like tiles. Tiles! That's why I always choose it. Oh, wait - in windows 7 the choice only applies to a single folder. No global setting. Or if there is it's buried somewhere daft. So I have to toggle every last folder on the machine manually, or use a view I detest.

---

It's because Vista and Win7 auto-detect the contents of a folder and apply what it thinks is the most appropriate view setting. Usually list. Personally I like details. For Vista, there's this utility, that doesn't let Windows change it back, you still have to make the changes, but Windows can't decide to change it, which it does, often. Even though it is for Vista, it might work on Win7. Otherwise, you may have to check in with Google for any solutions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

The C:\Users\Froggy\AppData\ thing has been a semi dead end. Adding a folder to the start menu doesn't function in the same way it used to. I can't follow it along in the start menu to get the shortcut I want. Instead I have to click it and it opens up the folder itself in a new window. I guess I can dump genre folders in there and stash my game shortcuts in there. Thing is, it's terribly clumsy solution.

So: does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get my games organised for quick, easy access while having them filed how I want them instead of how windows wants them?

---

Clicking start then right clicking All Programs > Open is the easiest way to get edit the start menu folders. Unless I've missunderstood you I done a quick try, putting a folder called games in the "Programs" folder then a sub folder in games called "Strategy" and it seemed to work fine

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i385.photobucket.com/albums/.../startmenu.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

Winamp doesn't offer any of the (small!) selection of things I want and actually makes my life more awkward, so I got rid of it. Back to the build in media player, which also doesn't offer what I need but which is slightly better. Where can I get a media player which does all of the following:
1. Places a small control bar on the taskbar or similar so that I can pause or tweak volume without changing window focus.
2. Has a large library window that lets me list files according to file path location.
3. Lets me play a single track on endless loop after selecting to play it from my library.

---

1 and 2 can be done with the default windows 7 media player. If you hover over the icon in the taskbar you will get pause, next and previous track options. And to show files based on location then click:

Organise > Customise navigation pane > Tick folder

I still like Winamp(lite) personally. 1 is easily doable. For 2, there is no library as such- Winamp only uses playlists. My "library" is my directory structure*, so when adding files to the playlist, I can easily browse by directory. 3 is also builtin and easily doable.

*Windows7 uses libraries, and if you added all of your files to them, you'd have them under one location there. I don't really use that feature since my music is on a network drive. :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

I also wonder if this install is faintly borked.

---

I think that's a distinct possibility. :yes:

Tip: To get to your start menu, right click "All Programs" then click Open

EDIT: oops, didn't notice miotas got there first!

Thanks for all of the help :bow:

Making progress. Slowly, painfully. I'm at a level where I can sit and catch my breath, and use the PC for a time without trouble. That's my plan for the next week or so. It feels like I'm jury rigging everything, kind of like when your car breaks down and you do a temp repair in order to drive the last 5 miles home. If I hadn't managed to get some progress I'd do a clean reinstall and see if it helped; now I have too much to lose as I doubt I could remember half of what I've done to get it tolerable.

After that I shall look at changing my RAM settings on my board; it defaults to very safe levels and so they are currently running below spec. If only I can remember how I altered it when I built the PC and what settings I used ...

The extra RAM is nice. I got to play a few games and it's made an appreciable difference. Victoria 2 is the most drastic - it loads twice as quickly, possibly faster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

1. Can go one better, you can set it to keyboard commands, so you don't even does a taskbar.

---

What are the commands?

Quote:

---

3. Default player can do this - Select Track > Right Click > Play

---

It works! Ah ha! And I've been all over the internet hunting for just that - Microsoft's own detailed user guide doesn't mention it! It insists that the only way to loop a single track is to search for it until there are no other results in the pane, and then play it.

Might seem like a lot of excitement for something so small - it's vital to my writing. I put a single track on endless loop and as long as it fits the mood I'm writing that's it, I blank it out entirely and write without trouble. Change the track or force me to pay attention and my writing flow dies completely.