SS Sign-up - Dual Alliance:Double Jeopardy

Double Jeopardy

Alright, since we have had some interest in the campaign I've decided to move it to the next phase and issue a general sign up for players.

There is a few rules and regulations that will be updated since the last campaign 2 years ago.
I'm hoping for a fair and balanced campaign and all these rules and regulations I suggest are open for debate.

So far here is a list of the teams

TEAMS:
Alright, the teams are balanced fairly based on the distance, religion, strength.. etc.
So the strongest catholic kingdoms; HRE is given the weakest kingdom; Templar's and so forth. Islamic/Orthodox nations are somewhat stronger but will have disadvantages the Catholic nations don't have. The game will be so that each players plays both their turns one right after the other, so no waiting for for other people to play multiple turns (hopefully will got quicker this way.)

Catholic:
1. Holy Roman Empire & Portugal - Tavix (Confirmed)
2. France & Norway - Nightbringer (Confirmed)
3. England & Aragon - TriforceV (Confirmed)
4. Hungary & Scotland - Visorslash (Confirmed)
5. Poland & Genoa - Askthepizzaguy(Confirmed)
6. Crusaders & Venice - Swarbs (Confirmed)
7. Leon & Sicily - Core-i7-inside (Confirmed)
8. Denmark & *Kiev* - pesto alla genovese (Confirmed)
Islam:
9. Fatamids & Kwarezemian - phonicsmonkey (Confirmed)
10. Seljurks & Moors - Sogesu (Confirmed)
Orthodox:
11. Byzantine Empire & Novgorod - Thanatos Eclipse (Confirmed)
Pagan:
12. Cuman Empire & Lithuania (*Mongol invasion*) - Playeraka (Confirmed)


Version:
SS 6.3

Rules:
(again these rules are open for debate, however here is what I propose)

Game Type:
Auto-resolve
Reasons: The reason for auto-resolve is for a balanced form of game-play, Battlemode is an enjoyable part of the campaign - and is at the heart of what is Total war. However, during multiplayer many problems arise that often benefit the attacker, reducing the defender to always fort up his armies and avoid outright sieges in situations in which he may lose (even thought his army might be bigger) - For these reasons and many more, its easier to go with Autoresolve.
Spies:
Limited Use - Open Forts, not Settlements
Reasons: Spies are an important part of any campaign, but one of their more infamous abilities, to open gates is naturally unfair, countless campaigns have been won on a legion of spies rather than armies, and it has made for some very disappointing results. For this reason spies will be unable to open gates of cities or castles, but will still have a free hand at opening fortifications.
Siege Ware-fare:
Limited Use - Siege Equipment will be muzzled

Balista = Nothing
Catapult = Wooden Walls ( forts, small towns, large towns, Wooden castle, motte+bailey)
Trebuchet = Stone Walls ( Everything Except, Large Cities and Fortresses)
Cannons = Anything

Reasons: By limiting the ability of siege equipment, it will give city walls the respect they truly deserve. No longer will anyone be able to Sack Constantinople with simply 1 balista unit. It will require a more strategic approach.
Crusade & Jihad
Limited Use - Only one Crusading army per nation, with Specific Rules attached. (read rules)

Crusade Rules:
Only 1 Crusading/Jihad Army per Kingdom (since it's Dual alliance you will be allowed to have 2 one each per Kingdom you control) -
In joining the Crusade/Jihad you need Declare that you did so on the fourms and who is the leader of your Crusading/Jihading Army (Example: Duke SoandSo Joins the Crusade for Venice!).
In joining the Crusade/Jihad you must always keep your "Crusade/Jihad Flag Up" -
In addition your Crusading/Jihading army can only be used on the kingdom that the Crusade/Jihad was declared on - Using the Crusading army in any other way (even attacking an alternative enemy that is blocking your path) is considered Cheating.
Furthermore, The Crusading/Jihading army while it can attack forts and armies of the enemy target kingdom, it Cannot Sack any cities except for the actual TARGET city of the Crusade/Jihad.
Finally, there are only 3 ways to Abandon a Crusade/Jihad:
First, attack/defeat the Target City and succeed in the Jihad or Crusade
Second, have your crusading army wiped out completely
Third, Abandon the Crusade/Jihad have all your troops desert (including the original troops your started with), until all that's left is your general - then Declare your abandonment of the Crusade/Jihad.
Abandoning a Crusade/Jihad and then attack/capture a settlement or alternative kingdom and rejoining it before the turn is up is also considered cheating.

Reasons:
Alright this might seem a bit complex, but all these rules have good reason attached to them. I thought about scraping Jihad/Crusade all together - but considering the circumstances of the game with slightly weaker Christian nations I felt that it was needed. -
These rules were created in order to stabilize a very unstable system that have since plagued many multiplayer campaigns. It might seem overwhelming at first, but really these are simple rules that highlight only the boundries and reinforce the main purpose of its original ideal.
Simply put if you have one jihad/crusade army and use it to go after the enemy targeted city, you won't have anything to worry about:sweatdrop:.
Pillaging Cities
No Destroying any property while under siege.
Reasons:
Nobody likes to lose a city/castle, so when prospects of protecting your land don't look too good you may feel tempted to make your rival's victory bittersweet by blowing up all your property before he takes it - But don't do it, the result is that the later part of the game resembles Scotched earth in which peasants become the most advanced infantry, and former Goliath cities like Constantinople are rendered useless.
It takes 20-30 turns and countless amount of gold just to restore damage done by one bitter player. Any purposeful pillaging will be considered cheating.
Basic Rules
48 Hours to play your turn, If your unable to make the engagement you will be subbed.
After 2 turns of inactivity you will be replaced, exceptions will be made however if notification and reasons are given for the absence. You may choose someone to sub for you if you can't make it for a few turns, or if unable someone will be chosen for you.
While a replacement is being found for inactive players, a Regency will be named to take over the campaign (another player in the campaign) and will take over the responsibilities of that absent players kingdoms for 2 turns only.
If no replacement is found afterward, than that individuals kingdoms will be sent to the AI.

Please Role-Play and have FUN!.

Also Don't Cheat.. Most of you are honest people who want to have a good time, but cheaters will always be found out. all turns are saved and recorded on everyone's system.
Usually the transgressions are fairly obvious, However, If you suspect someone of cheating, then please tell me and I will investigate.
Punishment for cheating will depend on the severity of the offense, minor offenses might only be given a warning and a deduction or minor penalty, depending on the situation. However, repeat offenders or serious violations of cheating will result in the explosion of that individual player from the campaign.
You have been warned!!
Just don't do it and have fun and lose with grace:sweatdrop:

I think I'm done now ...

So SIGN UP! people!

I'd be willing to play France and Portugal

oh good, not near me ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thanatos Eclipse

oh good, not near me ;)

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Not yet, anyway

Never played Sicily or Poland so sign me up for them.

I'm keen. Although are we using SS6.3? Cos there is no Ireland in 6.3! Also the Templars are replaced by the Crusader States, who are actually pretty buff and start with Jerusalem, Antioch and Edessa. So whoever takes them could have a bit of an advantage.

Triforce, can you confirm which version we're going with? Might affect what factions I choose! :)

Also, is Kiev just being left out?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Swarbs

I'm keen. Although are we using SS6.3? Cos there is no Ireland in 6.3! Also the Templars are replaced by the Crusader States, who are actually pretty buff and start with Jerusalem, Antioch and Edessa. So whoever takes them could have a bit of an advantage.

Triforce, can you confirm which version we're going with? Might affect what factions I choose! :)

Also, is Kiev just being left out?

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Intresting, well I'll have to check out 6.3, and see whats up, ill keep you all updated!

If Kiev's available, I might switch...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

If Kiev's available, I might switch...

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Not if I switch first...

Actually, I'm more keen on the Denmark / Ireland or HRE / Templars option. Hence I'd quite like to know whether we're doing 6.2 or 6.3! :)

I say 6.3 is the better option. And I bag Kiev.

I also vote 6.3. And I shotgun the Crusader States. Although they probably shouldn't be combined with the HRE as that combo could be a bit too powerful...

Maybe HRE and Portugal?

Danm downloads.. Megaupload sucks, and the split up the file into 5 parts, its becoming really cumbersome trying to get 6.3 with all its files and all my other activites and engagements.. its coming along,

But very slowly, ive downloaded so far 3 of the 5 files, but megaupload has barred me from downloading for awhile because Ive exceeded my download limit or some such BS...
Anyways, shouldn't be too long now, I want to get my hands on it and rework the teams, but alas.. its slow.. ill keep updated

I'd suggest the following teams, using Kiev to replace Ireland. Just an initial suggestion, but if we do go with these I'd like the Crusaders and Venice :)

HRE + Portugal
England + Aragon
France + Norway
Crusaders + Venice
Hungary + Castille
Sicily + Poland
Genoa + Scotland
Kiev + Denmark

I haven't played 6.3 yet, but I might see some possible problems with these teams:

France + Norway start out pretty close together compared to other teams, which would give france the upperhand over most of its neighbors

Denmark + Kiev are different religions, although they're close enough that it could possibly be overlooked

Alright!.
Finally I took a look at 6.3 and switched up the teams for optimal performance considering the older 6.2 team balance has now shifted.

So here are the new teams (as posted on the front page).

1. HRE & Portugal
2. France & Norway
3. England & Aragon
4. Hungary & Scotland
5. Poland & Genoa
6. Venice & Crusader States
7. Leon & Sicily
8. Denmark & Kiev
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9. Moors & Turks
10. Fatamids & Khwarez
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11. Byzantium & Novgorod
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12. Cuman & Lithuania & (!!Mongol Invasion!!)


So I'm ready to awnser any questions, the balance was set up accordingly, the strongest catholic nations teaming with the weakest, each are pretty much balanced - and have a distance apart from eachother.
For the Islamic faction, the Moors and Turks are the strongest Islamic nations and their teaming up together, desipte the overwhelming stats of these two kingdoms, each are far from eachother and have many challenges, the other islamic nation team have weaker stats but are relatively more safely and closely positioned (Egypt and Khwarez).
The Orthdox team has the biggest empire (Byzantime Empire) at its disposal and a strong partner of the Novgord (however they can't call crusade/jihad) and have alot of challenges from the start to contend with.
The Pagan team is the worst starting team, however I will allow the Pagan team to take control of the Mongol Invasion when/if it comes giving them some additional perks for choosing such a team.

Any question get back to me

I'll try Danes and Kiev.

I'll stick with Egypt and the Khwaz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thanatos Eclipse

France + Norway start out pretty close together compared to other teams, which would give france the upperhand over most of its neighbors

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They're not actually all that close together, and France will need to take Bruges or Antwerp before it can link with Norway. And the benefits to France will be countered a bit by the fact that it's surrounded by England and Aragon, who are also on the same team giving them an advantage in any war with France. That was my thinking when proposing those teams anyway.

I'm up for Venice and the Crusaders! Also, I vote no one gets to control the Mongols - they are just too powerful for a human player to have them!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Swarbs

Also, I vote no one gets to control the Mongols - they are just too powerful for a human player to have them!

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It's probably a moot point as I've never been in a hotseat that has lasted long enough to see the Mongol invasion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

It's probably a moot point as I've never been in a hotseat that has lasted long enough to see the Mongol invasion

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I've been in a couple, but they were KGCM 4.2 hotseats, and I think they tend to last longer than SS ones so you're probably right.

In the KGCM HS, you got your ass kicked. :laugh4: (Joking)

Maybe we could do a late era hotseat?

Either way, can I switch to Hungary and Scotland?

What, Foxes and Lions? I seem to remember you being the one getting spanked like a schoolgirl in that one :2thumbsup:

We could go for Late Era, but that kind of takes Byzantium out as a viable faction, unless the Seljuks and Venice are particularly forgiving...

Because the two major powers in the east decided to wipe the floor with poor Milan and Sicily. (Note, I don't particularly like Italian factions) and I didn't start off with them from turn 1. AND, I ain't dead yet boyo.

I'll take France & Norway, if possible...

At this point, I have no access to the game... My laptop's adaptor is dead...

Hey Triforce, I think you got Visor and Tristan switched in the team listing

No he doesn't... :P

Well 3 spots (Teams) remaining.. we should start pretty soon at this rate.

Do we need to wait for full teams to start? Can't we just start now and pick up the extra players as we go along? We just need to start with their factions turned human, so they don't get AI bonuses at the start.

Seljuk Turks and Moors, please.

IN!



Some kind person please link me to the 6.3 download page.

Can someone help me to get SS6.3 installed at the same time as 6.2 (which I'm using for the DoW hotseat)?

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=377824

Go nuts!

Hmmm...how do I edit my posts?

@phonicsmonkey, when you install SS6.3 it goes into a separate directory (mods/SS6.3) to SS6.2 (mods/Stainless_Steel_6) so you can install the two of them together without any problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

Can someone help me to get SS6.3 installed at the same time as 6.2 (which I'm using for the DoW hotseat)?

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Forget it, it looks completely simple, sorry

EDIT: just saw your post, thanks Swarbs

you need full membership to edit posts - pm a mod and explain you're in a hotseat game and you would like him to upgrade you so you can edit.

Confirmation Process has begun, you have 48 hours

Please reply via a msg or on this thread to confirm you continued interest in this campaign, after the 48 hours we will begin

P.S.
PLEASE READ THE RULES
voice any complaints, or changes to the rules you would like to make here.

Confirmed. Timur the Lame has withdrawn so no player for Leon and Sicily atm.

Couple of things on the rules:

1. Ballistas do zero damage to buildings in SS6.3. So ballistas can't be used even to attack pallisades.

2. "it Cannot Sack any cities except for the actual TARGET city of the Crusade/Jihad."
Does this mean it can capture or exterminate other cities? It just can't sack them?

Installation question - do we select any of the optional scripts on setup? And which AI should I select?

Barring any unforeseen installation issues, I'll confirm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Swarbs

Confirmed. Timur the Lame has withdrawn so no player for Leon and Sicily atm.

Couple of things on the rules:

1. Ballistas do zero damage to buildings in SS6.3. So ballistas can't be used even to attack pallisades.

2. "it Cannot Sack any cities except for the actual TARGET city of the Crusade/Jihad."
Does this mean it can capture or exterminate other cities? It just can't sack them?

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Responce to 1.
Yeah Swarbs I've confirmed this, Ballistas are offically a dead letter, so they can open nothing. It was actually a pretty nice addition to the 6.3 I think.
However, the Other seige weapons and their effectiveness still applies.

Responce to 2.
Nope, You can't Touch any other cities with Jihad/Crusade army. A Crusade/Jihad army can only be used capture a target city of the crusade/jihad. However the army can be used on other armies and forts of the target Jihad/crusades nation.

There is reason behind this: Players often use a Jihad/Crusade army to advance their own ambitions, especially if they are bordering the target of a jihad/crusade nation. usually, in such cases, Instead of sending their army towards the targeted city, players often just use a Jihad/crusade army to take advantage of cities close to their border... This is why, it is unacceptable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

Installation question - do we select any of the optional scripts on setup? And which AI should I select?

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I forget the name of the AI - but its the meanist one (hardest AI) - big bad whatever..

And then Early campaign.

Besides that nothing else, unless anyone sees any benefit with other submods.

confirmed!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TriforceV

There is reason behind this: Players often use a Jihad/Crusade army to advance their own ambitions, especially if they are bordering the target of a jihad/crusade nation. usually, in such cases, Instead of sending their army towards the targeted city, players often just use a Jihad/crusade army to take advantage of cities close to their border... This is why, it is unacceptable.

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Definitely agree with this. That's why I wanted to check! :)

I assume you mean Gracul's AI by the meanest and baddest one?

Also, @phonicsmonkey you can change the era, scripts and options at any time using the SS_setup.exe file in the SS6.3 directory. That lets you run lots of different campaigns with different options without having to reinstall and mess around with submods.

Triforce, seeing as your recruiting at both the .org and .net, were are you going to host the actual game? (so I know if I need to make a profile over at the .net)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thanatos Eclipse

Triforce, seeing as your recruiting at both the .org and .net, were are you going to host the actual game? (so I know if I need to make a profile over at the .net)

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Ahh good question..
The awnser (both).
I'll make an actual game forum for both TWCENTER and TOTALWAR.ORG, and simply import and export the .sav's from one or the other...

but what about the council and story threads? It might cause some confusion in the rp if people end up posting around the same time on different threads

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thanatos Eclipse

but what about the council and story threads? It might cause some confusion in the rp if people end up posting around the same time on different threads

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Well the Council and Story threads could also be done in a smilar fashion.

I could always open up a forum for a RP council in both .org and .net and update them on regular intervals by copy/pasting and quoting the information.
In RP fashion we could say that these are two distant councils that keep updated upon each others progress and/or transgressions.
Fair enough?

Only one thing though, I know you like to RP Thantos, but there may be some players (from the Center specifically) who aren't as dynamic, and may exclude the RP element altogether - we will just assume they have shunned the council.

Sounds good, I was just curious how that would work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TriforceV

Well the Council and Story threads could also be done in a smilar fashion.

I could always open up a forum for a RP council in both .org and .net and update them on regular intervals by copy/pasting and quoting the information.
In RP fashion we could say that these are two distant councils that keep updated upon each others progress and/or transgressions.
Fair enough?

Only one thing though, I know you like to RP Thantos, but there may be some players (from the Center specifically) who aren't as dynamic, and may exclude the RP element altogether - we will just assume they have shunned the council.

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Sounds like a lot of work for you, but if you're ok with that then it sounds like it could work.

Just to be clear though, I'm not going to be checking the other forum at all. I'm not trying to be awkward but I just don't have time to visit both places...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TriforceV

Well the Council and Story threads could also be done in a smilar fashion.

I could always open up a forum for a RP council in both .org and .net and update them on regular intervals by copy/pasting and quoting the information.
In RP fashion we could say that these are two distant councils that keep updated upon each others progress and/or transgressions.
Fair enough?

Only one thing though, I know you like to RP Thantos, but there may be some players (from the Center specifically) who aren't as dynamic, and may exclude the RP element altogether - we will just assume they have shunned the council.

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Why not just keep the Council and Story threads here, and anyone from TWcenter who doesn't have an account can just PM me or Triforce and we can post their comments here? Seems to make more sense than trying to maintain two independent threads and having everything end up in the wrong order, or important posts get missed out by mistake...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Swarbs

Why not just keep the Council and Story threads here, and anyone from TWcenter who doesn't have an account can just PM me or Triforce and we can post their comments here? Seems to make more sense than trying to maintain two independent threads and having everything end up in the wrong order, or important posts get missed out by mistake...

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I like this idea :-)

Hey all, I know I am coming in pretty late but I would love to be a replacement or subber if needed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightbringer

Hey all, I know I am coming in pretty late but I would love to be a replacement or subber if needed.

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unfortunately I have yet to have a confirmation from Tristan de Castelreng.
I'm willing to give him another 24 hours, because I know he had some computer problems recently. However if he is unable to play I will sign you up to take his place

ok sounds good