Lack of new people is killing the backroom and the entire forum

After going over a few threads regarding the impact of tribesman being banned and complaining about the state of the backroom it's obvious that this place is suffering from a reverse Eternal September (look it up). A lot of people in just the past two years have left. Older members have lives and the mods are too restrictive on the dialogue. There is a thread in the frontroom filled with names of people no longer here.

I don't know what the answer is, but I feel like this forum is going to have a problem this next year if new people are not coming in. Honestly, I would have to side with people arguing to bring back Tribesman. The backroom is very poor in terms of the discourse.

I feel like if this new Shogun fails like Empire and Napoleon, then we can say good bye to any new members for another 2 years which will effectively kill this forum.

It's true, I don't think anything can be done about it - but I am feeling this everywhere in the forum as I am sure everyone else is.

I was hoping it was just the holiday season, but everything just seems tired and bored nowadays.

When I last was active, you could sit back in your favourite forum, write a reply, click refresh, write another, click refresh.

There was always someone present.

Now you wait for the peak activity just to see something new!

Every forum on the board is dead compared to what it was last year....

I am seriously considering a switch over to the center. I have been browsing the equivalent backroom there and it is quite literally better in every way. Well, I can't say that about the character of the mods, but the discussion and range of topics is much, much better. I think this place is done for. If I am ever gone for long periods of time, it might just be that I am at the center.

Compare the active members .org: ~950-1000 center: ~7000+

You're just saying that because you are (probably) lynched in the mafia game.

I'm sure the Org has had low points, and while I am hardly a valuable contributor and I often disappear for a year or so, I will always come back to this forum if I come back to the internet for pleasure at all.

There's an atmosphere here which is not present in TWC, and in any case I am not about to join any more internet communities and start learning the ropes somewhere else again.

I couldn't abandon the Main Hall.

You'll change your mind. Andres is right - they always come back.

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Originally Posted by Glenn

You're just saying that because you are (probably) lynched in the mafia game.

I'm sure the Org has had low points, and while I am hardly a valuable contributor and I often disappear for a year or so, I will always come back to this forum if I come back to the internet for pleasure at all.

There's an atmosphere here which is not present in TWC, and in any case I am not about to join any more internet communities and start learning the ropes somewhere else again.

I couldn't abandon the Main Hall.

You'll change your mind. Andres is right - they always come back.

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No, I really don't care about a mafia game. I spend most of my time in the backroom attempting to hone arguments, reasoning capability and learning the other sides arguments. I can't really learn new arguments, when there is no new people and the old people simply bring up the same points.

Just listen to Serious Sam!

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Originally Posted by Glenn

Just listen to Serious Sam!

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I never played that series.

Its true, but what can you do.

The modding scene has moved, the MP scene has moved and we don't get many new members. The biggest draw of this forum is the people, or mafia, tbh.

I blame Napoleon.

It is not forbidden for the membership to take initiatives, come up with ideas, or to create content that could draw the attention of new, not yet registered, members.

E.g. it is not forbidden to hunt for news about TW games and post about it in the appropriate tw game related subfora; it is not forbidden to write a guide about a tw game or a faction in a tw game, it is not forbidden to post in the subforum of the most recently released TW game and discuss game mechanics or point out bugs or what not, it is not forbidden to post in the EH and make newbies feel welcome so that they stick around instead of disappearing after three posts.

Being negative and not taking action will only lead to a self fulfilling prophecy :shrug:

The .Org is what it is thanks to its' membership. Sitting on your butt and complaining won't help the .Org. If you really and truly care about this place, then now is the time to stand up and do something. If it is your opinion that you don't have to do anything and that everything should be served to you on a silver plate, then maybe you don't really care.

If TW games are so bad, it is also not forbidden to post in the Arena and share your thoughts about other games.

Just don't make your posts too long so CR and I won't have to delete the parts we can't be bothered to read to make sure there is nothing bad in them. ~;)

Concerning the Backroom, it's true, discussion there is down quite a bit, perhaps this is also because AFAIK new members have to specifically apply to see the Backroom, maybe this should be changed so we get some stragglers to tear apart now and then. On the other hand old topics never change and sooner or later most people will get tired of discussing them over and over again anyway, whether someone brings a slightly new opinion or not. If you can think of some truly revolutionary topics, feel free to post them though.

How would I go about getting access to the Backroom? I am willing to be torn to shreds if my posts aren't to the standard ~;)

Go to Settings, then Permission Groups (or simply follow this LINK).

In the list of groups you can join, look for Backroom. Mark the join group button. Scroll down and click "Join group". Then you have to wait until one of the BR mods grants you permission.

To speed up the proces, you can drop one of the BR mods (CountArach, Ser Clegane, Banquo's Ghost, Seamus Fermanagh) a friendly pm and they'll handle your request asap.

:bow:

Thanks. I look forward to see what lays within.

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Originally Posted by Husar

On the other hand old topics never change and sooner or later most people will get tired of discussing them over and over again anyway, whether someone brings a slightly new opinion or not. If you can think of some truly revolutionary topics, feel free to post them though.

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Looking at the totalwar center backroom here are some conversation we seemed to have skipped over:

"US will lose it's AAA rating if tax extension is passed."
"Number of uninsured in US rises" (up to 50 million now)
"China reveals aircraft carrier plans"
"Actually, America has the most progressive taxation system in the world"

Here is what we have which the center has skipped over:
"What is better then sex?" Really?

Our wikileaks thread hasn't been posted in since the 16th. 14 days ago.

At the present time there is discussion to open up the Backroom to all members - i.e. not to have to ask for permission to join first, so that may help a little.

The arena is doing fine so I don't really mind...

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Originally Posted by Husar

Concerning the Backroom, it's true, discussion there is down quite a bit, perhaps this is also because AFAIK new members have to specifically apply to see the Backroom, maybe this should be changed so we get some stragglers to tear apart now and then.

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I had no idea. It hasn't always been that way. Why was that put in place?

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

I had no idea. It hasn't always been that way. Why was that put in place?

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It was to protect children away from the area, as it isn't rated PG-13 and discusses controversial issues.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Looking at the totalwar center backroom here are some conversation we seemed to have skipped over:

"US will lose it's AAA rating if tax extension is passed."
"Number of uninsured in US rises" (up to 50 million now)
"China reveals aircraft carrier plans"
"Actually, America has the most progressive taxation system in the world"

Here is what we have which the center has skipped over:
"What is better then sex?" Really?

Our wikileaks thread hasn't been posted in since the 16th. 14 days ago.

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The last I looked, the content was to be desired. They were arguing like: "Hitler was an atheist, and he killed millions of people! Atheists are evil."

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Originally Posted by Beskar

The last I looked, the content was to be desired. They were arguing like: "Hitler was an atheist, and he killed millions of people! Atheists are evil."

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It's not on the level you would find at a university, or here, but it's not FreeRepublic. More like high school level. People post links and I would say it is about 75% arguments, 25% talking points.

I am sorry for not doing my part. I do not argue in the depths of the backroom so that I remain a pure and still org-wanting individual. In person, I would argue. Over the computer, not for me. : / I give my sorrows for the backroom ails.

And yes, it is a great shame that the guild has been stricken so. I left (for the second time) in a time of great bounty. The community was not so disgusted with the, and the forum was growing even. But I returned to find this. Almost no life in my most sacred halls. The chapter house was nearly vacant. The frontroom was reduced to nameless spam just to stay alive. The gameroom.....well....the gameroom is still pretty fun, but the rest has slowed dramatically. These are dark times for the org, I am afraid....dark times indeed for us all.

The backroom should be opened for its own survival, I agree. It needs fresh blood. As for the rest of this place....the only thing to do is pray. Pray to the god(s) above that Shogun 2 won't suck. And maybe sacrifice a goat...

Speaking for myself there's only so many times that you can comment on gunbortion etc. threads without repeating yourself. Also it can be a wee bit tiresome being right all the time. :juggle2: :laugh4:

Shouldn't be the other way around? The lack of people is killing the entire forum included the Backroom?
Still there is a lot of people around, if you don't believe me, just ask the lurkers to say hi! Of course we are not very talkative but still... in my humble opinion the forum is far from being dead.

I'm not sure opening the backroom to the general public is a good idea, perhaps making it visible while not open to post for a while could serve as projection of future activity.

By the way, Hi!

+0

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

After going over a few threads regarding the impact of tribesman being banned and complaining about the state of the backroom it's obvious that this place is suffering from a reverse Eternal September (look it up). A lot of people in just the past two years have left. Older members have lives and the mods are too restrictive on the dialogue. There is a thread in the frontroom filled with names of people no longer here.

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First of all, Tribesman was not banned. He left the forum of his own volition.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

I don't know what the answer is, but I feel like this forum is going to have a problem this next year if new people are not coming in. Honestly, I would have to side with people arguing to bring back Tribesman. The backroom is very poor in terms of the discourse.

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If the Backroom suffers poor discourse, then it is up to the members to improve it. Above, you consider us too restrictive but the rules are in place to encourage respect and higher standards of discussion. There are plenty of places on the internet where people can abuse one another and swear. This has never been one of them.

The biggest challenge facing this site is that fewer and fewer new members are signing up. I respectfully suggest that may have something to with the fact that the Totalwar games are not as compelling as they used to be.

We have a decent community in the off-topic fora, but I am fairly sure that it would disintegrate even faster should we loosen the rules. I really don't see what is so difficult about treating other people with respect and dignity.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

I had no idea. It hasn't always been that way. Why was that put in place?

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It was put in place for a couple of reasons. One, as Beskar noted, because the content was controversial and, in truth, a great many people on the site did not want to have a Backroom style forum or to be exposed to it.

Secondly, because some in the Backroom find it difficult to follow the rules, it makes it a lot easier to exclude those who repeatedly offend without them losing access to the rest of the Org - where they are very often highly valuable contributors.

I really don't care about Backroom but I do care about .Org.

However, recently I find it hard to post anything in here. I had a really difficult period few months ago in real life and I lost my interest to games long time before that. The only TW game I play is actually a RTW mod Europa Barbarorum. I also check the Arena, Throne Room and Monastery but that's all. I guess I am just getting too old for games like TW.

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Originally Posted by Riedquat

I'm not sure opening the backroom to the general public is a good idea, perhaps making it visible while not open to post for a while could serve as projection of future activity.

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I would agree with this. Access should still be controlled, but members should be at least aware of it.

Personally I dont want to have access to the Backroom because Ill be tempted to peek in, and then Ill just get drawn back in all over again, which isnt good for me because I dont like that place too much. Personal preference, really.

But I do remember the days, as late as May of 2009, where, as Glenn put it, "you could sit back in your favourite forum, write a reply, click refresh, write another, click refresh."
Unfortunately that is not the case anymore.
Oh well.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Personally I dont want to have access to the Backroom because Ill be tempted to peek in, and then Ill just get drawn back in all over again, which isnt good for me because I dont like that place too much. Personal preference, really.

But I do remember the days, as late as May of 2009, where, as Glenn put it, "you could sit back in your favourite forum, write a reply, click refresh, write another, click refresh."
Unfortunately that is not the case anymore.
Oh well.

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Even I remember that. Those were the days..

I'm disappointed now that I didn't register earlier if things were that active back then. But I suppose i'm here now and I can help the activity by being one of the new people.

Things should pick up a bit once TW: Shogun 2 is released--for a while anyway. From the standpoint of marketing, this would be a good time to consider any changes to forum structure (the interface), and to the process for new members, which might encourage people to join and participate.

The rules shouldn't be changed. They were the same when this place was rife with life, so I don't think they have anything to do with the lull in substantial activity here. The style of enforcement might have something to do with it, as staff has changed a lot since the old days. But I doubt it. I haven't noticed this to be true to any great degree.

I detest the Backroom, but the suggestion about making the link to the Back Room more visible from the main page makes sense if folks think it might inspire more people to inquire and eventually join in. Out of sight, out of mind, etc..

All-in-all, the game is the initial draw. People will hang out and join in in the ancillary forums if the game forums meet their needs and they find that they like the people who participate here (that's how it was for me, and I would guess, many of you). I say just be helpful, and encourage new gamers that do show up to check out the other forums once they've gotten their feet wet.

Just a video game forum. :balloon2:

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Originally Posted by AntiKingWarmanCake88

Just a video game forum. :balloon2:

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Not just a video game forum, no. This is the video game forum. The only one that has ever been able to keep my interest. TWC? Left after a week.

This is the good gem, and it should shine brighter than all the rest! But my babble will aid us not in this battle, no, for we must all babble! Maybe some newer folks are intimidated by resounding silence, no?

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

First of all, Tribesman was not banned. He left the forum of his own volition.

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Honest mistake, but thanks for riding my ***, obviously you think this is late 2008 and the EB tavern is going to make your internet life hell all over again before you even read what I say.

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If the Backroom suffers poor discourse, then it is up to the members to improve it. Above, you consider us too restrictive but the rules are in place to encourage respect and higher standards of discussion. There are plenty of places on the internet where people can abuse one another and swear. This has never been one of them.

The biggest challenge facing this site is that fewer and fewer new members are signing up. I respectfully suggest that may have something to with the fact that the Totalwar games are not as compelling as they used to be.

We have a decent community in the off-topic fora, but I am fairly sure that it would disintegrate even faster should we loosen the rules. I really don't see what is so difficult about treating other people with respect and dignity.

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1. Not asking for people to be able to swear. Did I say I wanted that? No, so good job making your self to be a fool who can't figure out where someone is coming from before posting. I am asking for more discussion and threads, and fresh blood bringing in new topics. The discourse is poor from the same people posting on the same issues. I already gave an example in a previous post, I'm talking about the discourse in that one of the backroom threads is "What is better then sex?", that's a terrible discourse we have if that is one of the most popular threads right now. China is showing off a new stealth bomber, where is the thread about it's implications?

2. Again you did not read anything of what I have been saying. Way to go. Good job mod. The whole point of what I have said was that there needs to be more people and the crappy total war games recently is what is causing the lack of membership. You repeating my entire point as if you just came up with it shows you do not even want to communicate on the same level as me.

3. Not asking for people not to treat each other with respect and dignity. As I said in my very first post "I don't know what the answer is but I feel like this forum is going to have a problem this next year if new people are not coming in." How is that, "hey guys I want to turn this place into 4chan."?

Long story short, you are a terrible mod if you are coming into a discussion with a preconceived notion of what someone is saying without even reading it properly.

And yet again ACIN, you show yourself to be a person who is pretty much just a :flower:head.

Is anyone going on about the EB tavern? We all moved past it, obviously you still hold bad blood about it?

Seriously, you're a self admitted troll, and to be honest, the forum would be better off without you.

...

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Long story short, you are a terrible mod

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Just responding to what you say a completely idiotic name.

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Originally Posted by ACIN

That's cool that you have to jump in and directly insult me. I don't insult anyone unless I feel like they have done me wrong, in jest, or I am in a heated discussion about politics, but you know glad to see that a **** who insults people to their face thinks I should leave the forum.

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Again, just responding. I don't care if you think you 'dont insult anyone unless they've done x or y', but your posting manner has remained the same, and sure, sometimes its funny, but a large percentage of it is pointless and annoying.

This is, of course, not including any gameroom stuff, as that can't count, nor backroom things, as I don't really read the backroom.

Your original point is true, yet you're being a pretty big douche about it.

Come on guys, is it that hard to discuss something without throwing insults at each other? I mean, i've hardly been on this forum for long so i'm not familiar with what you're discussing right now, but surely you can be a bit more respectful.

Can anyone fill me in on this or is the topic merely what the thread says, in that the backroom doesn't have enough interesting topics and people?

The lack of posts/threads in a OT subforum should not mean that the entire forum is dying.
Backroom is just a little subforum. Who cares if no one posts there?
The main point for this forum is to give people the chance to discuss over the Total War games.

And I agree with Lysimachus here. Don't you know how to discuss something without throwing insults at each other?

Ibn, over the last few years, you can't deny that the activity levels have dropped over the entire forums.

Most of the long time members are only here because of the non-total war sub-forums.

I came around the launch of M2TW. When that was released, the activity was huge. ETW and NTW, nothing compared to it. Even the pre-release of S2TW is less talk than the lead up to ETW.

Less people are coming here, I really do believe the largest influx of people in the last few years has been from other forums, to play mafia.

New people would help a lot. One of the problems is that the old-timers are tired of having the same arguments over and over again. There are only so many times you can write a quality post to a gunbortion thread, and most members already know everyone else's talking points.

My :2cents: on the Backroom decline:

Bush leaving office 1/20/09. His administration was worth at least one quality thread a day. His "wars" and the other proxy conflicts drove a lot of discussion. Not much hot going on right now, even though there is a lot of cold conflicts and maneuvering under the surface.

Obama taking office and the ensuing media lovefest. The liberal media took it easy on him (at least for a while), while for the most part the conservative media went on a continuous, ugly rant about socialism, with veiled racism on the side, instead of just blasting his policies with decent arguments and good reporting. USA-related Backroom threads at this point changed, with liberals (US version) on the defense while the conservatives went into attack mode, this generally doesn't make for good conversation. And to the last...

US-centricity. It's not that having a very large percentage of USians is a bad thing, but frankly our news media is craptastic and interesting, compelling storylines don't get much play over here. It's hard for us to start good topics if we aren't aware of them. One of the main draws for me in the "old days" was the threads about stuff the US media either ignores, hides, or is just plain incompetent about. AdrianII, Tribesman, etc. used to find stories with all kinds of cool slants to them.

So, yes, I blame the Backroom decline on Obama. :tongue:

tribesmen got banned? for what may i ask?

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Originally Posted by Prussian Iron

tribesmen got banned? for what may i ask?

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He didn't. He left.

why?

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Originally Posted by drone

Obama taking office and the ensuing media lovefest. The liberal media took it easy on him (at least for a while), while for the most part the conservative media went on a continuous, ugly rant about socialism, with veiled racism on the side, instead of just blasting his policies with decent arguments and good reporting. USA-related Backroom threads at this point changed, with liberals (US version) on the defense while the conservatives went into attack mode, this generally doesn't make for good conversation. And to the last...

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Ok I resent the label of us Conservatives being labeled as closet racists. While there are Conservatives out there who are racist, there are a very small minority, and for the most part, Conservatives like me (well Im more independent than anything else but whatever) hate Obama's policies, not his race. If you stopped only looking at Fox News for Conservative talk, you would see there are many very good, valid, Conservative talking points out there. Just saying.

Also dont forget how before there was no Israel/Palestine thread moratorium. I remember during/after the Gaza war the thread went on for about 300+ pages before it was locked. Then something like four more, also spanning 100+ pages each sprung up over the next three months. Then the moratorium was issued by BQ, then there wasnt for a long time. Then I left because I was spending too much time on these forums and not enough time doing school work. Plus the stress was taking a toll on me.

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Originally Posted by Prussian Iron

why?

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He just had enough of us and left.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

He just had enough of us and left.

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:(


also to other posts above....


come on guys, name calling? I know we are all emotionally devestated at the loss of Tribesman and his many contributions, but we should not have to be mean to one another. I suggest instead a community mourning, a funeral of sorts. There we can all express our feelings and connect through our love of Tribesman; it's what he would've wanted.

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Originally Posted by Prussian Iron

come on guys, name calling? I know we are all emotionally devestated at the loss of Tribesman and his many contributions

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Tribesy has been gone for a while. Its hardly new news.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Ok I resent the label of us Conservatives being labeled as closet racists. While there are Conservatives out there who are racist, there are a very small minority, and for the most part, Conservatives like me (well Im more independent than anything else but whatever) hate Obama's policies, not his race. If you stopped only looking at Fox News for Conservative talk, you would see there are many very good, valid, Conservative talking points out there. Just saying.

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Thanks for making my point. I didn't label conservatives as racists, I said that some of the coverage by mainstream conservative media had a racist tone. Constant posting of articles written by authors declaring Obama a socialist Muslim with a white-hating Christian preacher does not advance the quality of the discussion. Combined with a liberal MSM too scared to give him any bad press and what are we left with? 43 was the gift that kept on giving, at least from a Backroom perspective.

If you have a line on well-thought out, critical analysis from the conservative side, please, by all means, post it. This is what is missing. The Backroom needs controversy to survive, but it needs to be well-defended controversy to keep it from turning into cable news.

Fair enough, I see your point.

It has definitely slowed down...

For me, it seems to be the lack of staying power that is coming out in the games, rather that the Back Room's quality of reactionary doo doo someone (sometimes myself, just stating not judging) decided to drop that day.

In brief synopsis, Empire Total War, while it made fantastic advances for the game, such as naval battles, technology, etc. severely lacked the character development that marked the earlier titles. The game simply does not give the player the ability to become emotionally immersed in the story, and there for it looses it's long term connect.

I've never played Napoleon, so I cannot judge. But unless you play as Napoleon riding around on a horse picking up traits and stars, I imagine it's a similar fate: a bunch of short stories and no novel.

Totally agree, Yoyoma: I logged hundreds of hours with RTW and EB, and only a few dozen with ETW. As you said, the lack of generals that were born into the family that had traits that you could watch and see how they grew really ruined the immersion for me.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Totally agree, Yoyoma: I logged hundreds of hours with RTW and EB, and only a few dozen with ETW. As you said, the lack of generals that were born into the family that had traits that you could watch and see how they grew really ruined the immersion for me.

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The role playing element in a strategy game is what keeps us hooked....yes, I see this as so.

I have a couple of suggestions. Fix the search so it works, which it hasn't done since the upgrade to vBulletin 4.x (this is a common problem with vB 4.x forums). And enable search for the Backroom. Search was disabled for the Backroom because of lack of resources. With fewer users, it's not such a problem. There are some real gems in the Backroom archives that are lost because it can't be searched.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

I have a couple of suggestions. Fix the search so it works, which it hasn't done since the upgrade to vBulletin 4.x (this is a common problem with vB 4.x forums). And enable search for the Backroom. Search was disabled for the Backroom because of lack of resources. With fewer users, it's not such a problem. There are some real gems in the Backroom archives that are lost because it can't be searched.

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Incidentally, ever since the last board maintenance I can do searched. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

I have a couple of suggestions. Fix the search so it works, which it hasn't done since the upgrade to vBulletin 4.x (this is a common problem with vB 4.x forums). And enable search for the Backroom. Search was disabled for the Backroom because of lack of resources. With fewer users, it's not such a problem. There are some real gems in the Backroom archives that are lost because it can't be searched.

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yeah, the search is pretty awful. But I dont think it is enough to keep anyone from staying here.

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Originally Posted by Yoyoma1910

It has definitely slowed down...

For me, it seems to be the lack of staying power that is coming out in the games, rather that the Back Room's quality of reactionary doo doo someone (sometimes myself, just stating not judging) decided to drop that day.

In brief synopsis, Empire Total War, while it made fantastic advances for the game, such as naval battles, technology, etc. severely lacked the character development that marked the earlier titles. The game simply does not give the player the ability to become emotionally immersed in the story, and there for it looses it's long term connect.

I've never played Napoleon, so I cannot judge. But unless you play as Napoleon riding around on a horse picking up traits and stars, I imagine it's a similar fate: a bunch of short stories and no novel.

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I agree with this. The roleplaying part is missing from ETW and NTW. This could be another reason why I don't like them. It's quite interesting to see how a young general after he became of age gets new traits through the campaign. New games are directed to MP players and not to RP players.

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Originally Posted by Motep

yeah, the search is pretty awful. But I dont think it is enough to keep anyone from staying here.

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I don't know, I remember being able to pull up a plethora of quality information on MTW, which had me sticking around.


Then there was the Bartix thread... *sigh*

Like it is the way it is really, quality over quantity, backroon is a nice place for a good cigar

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

I have a couple of suggestions. Fix the search so it works, which it hasn't done since the upgrade to vBulletin 4.x (this is a common problem with vB 4.x forums). And enable search for the Backroom. Search was disabled for the Backroom because of lack of resources. With fewer users, it's not such a problem. There are some real gems in the Backroom archives that are lost because it can't be searched.

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Hello Pann.

I don't know about you guys, but search works for me.

I think its one of the best searchs around, keywords, users, words.

Never had an issue with it...:confused:

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

Hello Pann.

I don't know about you guys, but search works for me.

I think its one of the best searchs around, keywords, users, words.

Never had an issue with it...:confused:

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The last time I tried it was a few months ago, and it didn't work. Just tried it now, and it works. I still think search should be reenabled for the Backroom.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

I still think search should be reenabled for the Backroom.

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No disagreements here.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Looking at the totalwar center backroom here are some conversation we seemed to have skipped over:

"US will lose it's AAA rating if tax extension is passed."
"Number of uninsured in US rises" (up to 50 million now)
"China reveals aircraft carrier plans"
"Actually, America has the most progressive taxation system in the world"

Here is what we have which the center has skipped over:
"What is better then sex?" Really?

Our wikileaks thread hasn't been posted in since the 16th. 14 days ago.

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That's a fair enough point.

But look back at my previous post in this thread.

Yes, you've been naughty in the past, but I also know that you're an ok guy, intelligent and with a good sense of humour.

If those topics you mentioned interest you, then why don't YOU start a thread in the BR about it? Are you shy or lacking in self confidence? I, for one, like you ACIN, and, as I told you a while ago through pm, I have been enjoying some of your posts in the BR very much.

You seem to care about this place :bow:

Nobody is holding you back taking a leading role in bringing the BR, or other parts of the forum, for that matter, back to its' glory days.

If you want things to change, then usually sitting around and screaming that you want to see things changing is not enough. Take the first steps yourself. Lead by example. I'm sure you're one of those patrons who can help to improve this forum.

Many members started off "bad" and became seniors or even mods later on.
Why not you?

You want to talk about the new chinese stealth plane? Open a thread about it. A thread about taxes? Well, make an interesting OP and other people will post.

Yelling at each other won't help, au contraire. Working together will.

:bow:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lysimachus

I'm disappointed now that I didn't register earlier if things were that active back then. But I suppose i'm here now and I can help the activity by being one of the new people.

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That's the spirit :2thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lysimachus

Come on guys, is it that hard to discuss something without throwing insults at each other? I mean, i've hardly been on this forum for long so i'm not familiar with what you're discussing right now, but surely you can be a bit more respectful.

Can anyone fill me in on this or is the topic merely what the thread says, in that the backroom doesn't have enough interesting topics and people?

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:bow:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andres

That's a fair enough point.

But look back at my previous post in this thread.

Yes, you've been naughty in the past, but I also know that you're an ok guy, intelligent and with a good sense of humour.

If those topics you mentioned interest you, then why don't YOU start a thread in the BR about it? Are you shy or lacking in self confidence? I, for one, like you ACIN, and, as I told you a while ago through pm, I have been enjoying some of your posts in the BR very much.

You seem to care about this place :bow:

Nobody is holding you back taking a leading role in bringing the BR, or other parts of the forum, for that matter, back to its' glory days.

If you want things to change, then usually sitting around and screaming that you want to see things changing is not enough. Take the first steps yourself. Lead by example. I'm sure you're one of those patrons who can help to improve this forum.

Many members started off "bad" and became seniors or even mods later on.
Why not you?

You want to talk about the new chinese stealth plane? Open a thread about it. A thread about taxes? Well, make an interesting OP and other people will post.

Yelling at each other won't help, au contraire. Working together will.

:bow:

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I will try to make more threads, but I think it still goes without saying that I cannot do it all by myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

I will try to make more threads, but I think it still goes without saying that I cannot do it all by myself.

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While you're at it, may I suggest you consider your temper and attitude too?

Outbursts like the ones in this thread are what drive mature posters away. With them gone, everything else discussed in this thread becomes rather moot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andres

That's a fair enough point.

But look back at my previous post in this thread.

Yes, you've been naughty in the past, but I also know that you're an ok guy, intelligent and with a good sense of humour.

If those topics you mentioned interest you, then why don't YOU start a thread in the BR about it? Are you shy or lacking in self confidence? I, for one, like you ACIN, and, as I told you a while ago through pm, I have been enjoying some of your posts in the BR very much.

You seem to care about this place :bow:

Nobody is holding you back taking a leading role in bringing the BR, or other parts of the forum, for that matter, back to its' glory days.

If you want things to change, then usually sitting around and screaming that you want to see things changing is not enough. Take the first steps yourself. Lead by example. I'm sure you're one of those patrons who can help to improve this forum.

Many members started off "bad" and became seniors or even mods later on.
Why not you?

You want to talk about the new chinese stealth plane? Open a thread about it. A thread about taxes? Well, make an interesting OP and other people will post.

Yelling at each other won't help, au contraire. Working together will.

:bow:

---

:sweetheart:

New members must be welcomed and interacted with. If they are ignored or treated poorly, they won't stick around. That is what I think anyway.

Later when they have become used to the forum and post more often or regularly, then, you can treat them poorly. Tis a good acceptance ritual.

So much fighting in one thread, where's the love?

Anyway, as much as the OT area is the .org, the forum cannot survive if the TW series continues to deteriorate. That is essentially the main pull and if the series continues to dip then so will the forum. Then again saying that, sales at least would suggest TW has gone from strength to strength. If that's the case, the staff and the patrons need to seriously look at this community and ask the question; "why are places like TWC getting a far larger share of the traffic than here?"

For my part the reason I don't post as much is simply because the OT has become of limited interest. I posted in the STW2 MP forums a few months back but that settled down a bit. I'll probably post there again when the game is nearer release however. As for the Backroom and other Tavern sub-forums, the simple reason I don't post as much is because activity is down and as a result there's a lack of interesting topics. If you look about 8 months back when there were lots of British/ world politics threads on to go, I was very active. Now the scope of threads tend to be very narrow and topic either don't interest me or lack the depth I used to expect from a Backroom thread. The Frontroom activity has also dipped significantly, although I never posted there as much.

Although I don't post as often, I still visit the .org more than once a day. It's still my most viewed web page apparently. Part of that's down to new commitments in real life which quite simply leaves me with less time, part of it is the reasons stated above. Regardless however, I will be here as long as this forum is here. I've not stopped visiting yet and I don't plan to any time in the near future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

While you're at it, may I suggest you consider your temper and attitude too?

Outbursts like the ones in this thread are what drive mature posters away. With them gone, everything else discussed in this thread becomes rather moot.

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Lecturing people can also drive posters away, certainly when done in a public thread.

Besides, outbursts like that, while not always acceptable, can also be read as "I care about this place" :bow: While he could have chosen his words more carefully, the outburst doesn't mean ACIN is a bad patron.

ACIN cares, so he gets emotional. Some of us can keep their emotions better under control than others :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tibilicus

So much fighting in one thread, where's the love?

Anyway, as much as the OT area is the .org, the forum cannot survive if the TW series continues to deteriorate. That is essentially the main pull and if the series continues to dip then so will the forum. Then again saying that, sales at least would suggest TW has gone from strength to strength. If that's the case, the staff and the patrons need to seriously look at this community and ask the question; "why are places like TWC getting a far larger share of the traffic than here?"

For my part the reason I don't post as much is simply because the OT has become of limited interest. I posted in the STW2 MP forums a few months back but that settled down a bit. I'll probably post there again when the game is nearer release however. As for the Backroom and other Tavern sub-forums, the simple reason I don't post as much is because activity is down and as a result there's a lack of interesting topics. If you look about 8 months back when there were lots of British/ world politics threads on to go, I was very active. Now the scope of threads tend to be very narrow and topic either don't interest me or lack the depth I used to expect from a Backroom thread. The Frontroom activity has also dipped significantly, although I never posted there as much.

Although I don't post as often, I still visit the .org more than once a day. It's still my most viewed web page apparently. Part of that's down to new commitments in real life which quite simply leaves me with less time, part of it is the reasons stated above. Regardless however, I will be here as long as this forum is here. I've not stopped visiting yet and I don't plan to any time in the near future.

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It's a vicious circle, isn't it?

Not much activity -> I no longer post -> even less activity -> others no longer post.

If you want the BR to stay alive, you have to keep posting. If you make your posts quality posts, they will attract new contributors. If you, however, run away, then no new people will get attracted.

Other members used to play the leading role in the subforum; they left, for a variety of reasons. Maybe it's time for those left to step up and play the leading role those that left used to play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ACIN

I will try to make more threads, but I think it still goes without saying that I cannot do it all by myself.

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And you shouldn't. But the least you can do, if you truly care, is trying :bow:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andres

Maybe it's time for those left to step up and play the leading role those that left used to play.

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But they were so strong... and we are so... so... weak.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andres

Lecturing people can also drive posters away, certainly when done in a public thread.

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Lecturing in a public thread....like you are doing right now you mean? ~;p

:cheerleader:

But you are not ... people.... you are a mod, lecturing a mod always attract people ;)

:wink3:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andres

It's a vicious circle, isn't it?

Not much activity -> I no longer post -> even less activity -> others no longer post.

If you want the BR to stay alive, you have to keep posting. If you make your posts quality posts, they will attract new contributors. If you, however, run away, then no new people will get attracted.

Other members used to play the leading role in the subforum; they left, for a variety of reasons. Maybe it's time for those left to step up and play the leading role those that left used to play.

---

Yes, yes it is a vicious circle, the point is though I can't force myself to be interested. If I post a British related thread in the Backroom now it will normally only reach 2 pages/ 3 pages tops. There used to be a time where it could go on for multiple pages but that time is no more. I largely stopped posting them because of that and also because they tended to follow the same formality of debate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tibilicus

Yes, yes it is a vicious circle, the point is though I can't force myself to be interested. If I post a British related thread in the Backroom now it will normally only reach 2 pages/ 3 pages tops. There used to be a time where it could go on for multiple pages but that time is no more. I largely stopped posting them because of that and also because they tended to follow the same formality of debate.

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Meh, threads longer than 5 pages are usually people repeating themselves.

I prefer a three page long thread with interesting posts of high quality over 10 pages of drivel.

On the running of the Backroom, if I may say -I don't think it should be open, but maybe more advertised. Some sensible and manageable control over what is hosted by the website is clearly needed yet the frankness of the discussions needs to be preserved. I think the Org's requirements for civility are commendable, as has been mentioned above, this is the exception rather than the norm for inter-tube based talking shops.

That said, I have felt there is a bit of an itchy trigger finger on the "close thread" button recently. It's not always clear exactly why a thread has been closed -which obviously suggests that some authoritarian mod needs more time for their evil world dominating side project than a continued discussion would allow. If it's a temporary thread closure to act as a cooling off period, fine, just say so please!

The thing is, some people don't change their opinions, so discussion part comes slightly pointless, hence why it degrades in quality.

I dunno, I changed my opinion on global warming/climate change/climate disruption. :book:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beskar

The thing is, some people don't change their opinions, so discussion part comes slightly pointless, hence why it degrades in quality.

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Provided sufficient evidence is put forth, i'm sure someone's views can be changed. It's only on a topic such as religion or anything else subjective that it's hard to make someone budge because there's nothing particularly conclusive to make them change their mind, whereas if it was say a more historical topic then provided you give enough evidence and have a logical viewpoint then i'm sure it would be accepted.

I stumbled on the .Org, years ago, because I wanted a guide for MTW. Lo and behold the .Org had this wonderful beginners guide by Frogbeastegg (Lady Frog as most of you know her). With that and the ecellent and helpful advice of amongst others EatYourGreens in the mead hall I became hooked to the Org.
The next game in the TW-series I bought was ETW. Unfortunatly when I was looking for appropriate guides, I wound up at the center and the helpful threads in the forum quickly died out. This is the core of the problem for me. People go to game forums for help and then can stay around for the conversation.

In short instead of discussing what to do with the backroom, we better make sure we are ready for S2TW and be as helpful as we can for new members.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lysimachus

Provided sufficient evidence is put forth, i'm sure someone's views can be changed. It's only on a topic such as religion or anything else subjective that it's hard to make someone budge because there's nothing particularly conclusive to make them change their mind, whereas if it was say a more historical topic then provided you give enough evidence and have a logical viewpoint then i'm sure it would be accepted.

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I don't think it's a lack of sufficient evidence. People often don't value knowledge more than they do believing in something that suits their self interest, fits with their self image, meshes with their friends and peer group, and coheres with the believes that result from the previous three motivations.