I was thinking of taking up some self-defense thing and I was leaning towards Kickboxing. What one of these two you think is better?
:help:
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I was thinking of taking up some self-defense thing and I was leaning towards Kickboxing. What one of these two you think is better?
:help:
Id said kickboxing, they had more lethal accidents afterall, and the original Muay thay was an art of killing.
But I suggest you start from easy martial arts first, a kind of Taekwondo or Karate (for some time until you can have "body balance") since muay thai stances are quite difficult to maintain if you don't have good balance
Most any martial art can be an effective form of self-defense if you train the right way (after all, most martial arts were invented for a reason, and were combat tested). I would go with kickboxing as it is more robust. Again though, it is no good if you do not train the right way.
Kickboxing is easy to pick up, you'll get the basics in a few lessons. After that it's building up endurance. Forget about karate and all that other oriental nonsense (except judo), it's useless for practical purposes unless you have done it for years.
well, the most practical way to self defense here is carrying a gun under your coat, too bad, I only have knives and axesQuote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
lol, you are very wrong Frags. ~;) It depends completely on how it is taught and how it is trained.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
boxing i have for 9 years now. its got much farther benefits than self defense. just dont bother if you have a glass jaw..... or do and i guess you can try to overcome it though i dont know if that stuff can be worked past.
message me if you want some info on boxing.
The one time I boxed I detached my retna
Now I just carry knives or clubs, I have no use to prove my manhood in a fight, I'd much rather cause serious brain damage than do some antquated mating ritual in which the strongest survive
well i find boxing enjoyable. you were participating in organized boxing strike? if so thats pretty bad luck ive only seen that happen once
No, and we didnt have glovesQuote:
Originally Posted by Centurion1
So in reality some of the blame probably lies with me and my idoit friends
Took a hell of a punch though
yeah he probably broke his finger...... damn thats some good force. like i said with gloves i have only seen that happen once in a match for a golden gloves match and i had to fight the kid who did it in two matches.
but yeah fighting without proper gloves or the rules is a recipe for disaster.
So are you saying then that boxing is impractical? Also, I hate to clue you, but a knife or a club may not do you a heck of a lot of good if you do not know how to use them (esp if someone gets you from behind).Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
No very practical I just don't do itQuote:
Originally Posted by Vuk
People usually don't screw with me becuase I usually don't screw with people. Walk with confidence and the muggers will find someone else. I entertain no back alley fantasies
lol, but you don't think that it is important to have something for an emergency? Then why do you carry a knife? Actually Strike, I have been attacked twice, and right on Campus in the middle of day. I have also been attacked while at a State park. People are confrontational beings, and whether you wish it or not, there is a good statistical chance that some time in your life you are going to be forced into a physical confrontation. Some people of course are in positions where it is more likely than others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
haha, Did you know your attackers? Were you being confrontational?
I've never been attacked nor do I ever think it'll happen. I also am at a point where I just prefer to do the most bodily harm the quickest. If someone attacks me they forefit rights. Once again, I entertain no illusions. Fights are nasty, short, and brutish won by those willing to escalate the level of violence
To answer your question, yes, I did know my attackers (both of them), but I was not being confrontational.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Let me as you a question now, who said that you could not use a martial art (such as Kickboxing) to inflict bodily harm as quickly as possible. Who ever said that you had to go easy on someone or that a fight was not nasty?
boxing and kickboxing are sports not martial arts. and neither are good for self defense.
I would agree with modern sports boxing if not combined with other things, but not so with kickboxing. I think that you can easily put a self-defense spin on kickboxing and make it VERY effective. People tell me the same thing about TKD, and yet I can kick some @$$ with TKD. It just depends on how you train, and on realistic expectations. For instance, I believe that it is not practical to rely solely on something like TKD or kickboxing, but that does not mean that they cannot be used very effectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion1
That's what I do. Walk like a SOB and you usually get left alone, but if you do get jumped.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
:juggle2:
If you don't have any dislocated knuckles and broken ribs you aren't the real thing! It only hurts a little bit absolutely :daisy: muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Centurion1
True about martial arts, boxing and kickboxing are offensive sports. Nothing to with arts it's all endurance. Will put my money on a kickboxer over all that eastern hallelujah every time, looks fun in movies
@Vukkie, would you ever consider a fancy TKD high kick in a real fight. Barely going to hurt they move at ya to use their fists, you lose balance bye
lol Frags, first of all, you practice high kicks in TKD mainly to better your technique, balance, etc. In a real fight, TKD would mostly be applied below the belt. (rounds and fronts to the knees. Fronts to the groin, etc.) Also, when getting close up, TKD has a powerful arsenal of punches, elbows, grabs, and various other techniques that would make him be able to defeat a much more limited boxer. Also, it is not right to say that high kicks have no place in a real fight. If you shoot forward with a switching (double action, or whatever you prefer to call it) front kick from 10 feet away and plow your full body (concentrated on the ball of your foot) into your opponent's face or throat, do you think that that would have no effect? I garuntee you that a boxer would not even expect you to be able to attack from that distance, and that you would have reached him and defeated him before he even knew what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Also, a good TKDist can generate a lot of power; especially from such techniques as a side (or backspinning side). A lunging side kick is very hard to avoid, nearly impossible to stop, can be performed very quickly, and has devastating power.
I am not saying that TKD would be my prefered method of self-defense (Wing Tsjun would be :)), but I think that you are wrong to discount it as you do, and I think that it is far superior to something like boxing. My guess is that you are basing your judgement on the way that TKD is trained in the average DON'T-SUE-ME-McDojo. Real TKD has a lot more to it than just kicks, and involves heavy conditioning, reflex training, and lot's of live practice.
No offense Frags, but boxing does not hold a feather to real TKD (assuming that both are trained to their full potential).
heh ever been in a fight you don't seem the type. Been in a lot when I was younger, I'm from the countryside fighting with the kids from other villages was all the fun we had. It goes really fast and it starts with pushing and holding, if you can actually lunge a kick in the face or throat in the heat of things I must bow for a master
As for potential, who always win the freestyle contests. Kickboxers do. Almost exclusively
oh geezQuote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Yeah, I have been in fights before. I don't let fights get that close. If someone wants to start something, my preference is to end it before it gets to grappling. Yeah, I understand that that is not always possible (both the fights I have been in have started with someone trying to strike me (one was a boxer)), but like I said, TKD has lots of non-kick ways to deal with close situations. (knees, elbows, punches, grabs, various strikes, etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Also, it is really not all that hard to land a high-kick in a fight. (I have only ever been in two real fights, once was too close for a high kick, but the other wasn't) If you have trained well, you should have no problem getting a kick to someone's face in nearly the time it would take them to launch a punch at yours (or faster, depending on who you are fighting). The great thing about forward, lunging kicks is that they are very direct and fast. They are also hard to track, and can be launched from a far range. If it is a switching kick, it is all the more deceptive, as your opponent will raise his knee expecting a kick from the first action, and then the second action will strike him in the face.
The problem with TKD is not TKD, it is all the idiots who practice TKD. And as I said, I would much prefer to use Wing Tsjun. ~;)
Neither! Why don't you try Krav Maga? That's pure hand-to-hand combat and that's what i practice now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ELITECubKingWarman88
General principles include:
- Counter attacking as soon as possible (or attacking preemptively).
- Targeting attacks to the body's most vulnerable points such as the eyes, jaw, throat, groin, knee etc.
- Neutralizing the opponent as quickly as possible by responding with an unbroken stream of counter attacks and if necessary a take down/joint break.
- Maintaining awareness of surroundings while dealing with the threat in order to look for escape routes, further attackers, objects that could be used to defend or help attack and so on.
[ Play nicely, Cent! - Sec]
No, I am not. It is just that the fights you are used to are fights between two talentless bums who don't know anything about how to really fight. You have to end a fight fast; there is not time for dancing around throwing punches or rolling on the floor in an indecent manner. You use your speed and your weight, you dislodge your enemy and end the fight. That simple.
Boxing does not work in a fight, because it has no defense, is extremely limited (no kicking, grappling, etc), and does not make good use of mass. Grappling is useless against more than one person, and only will work one on one if either your opponent doesn't know what they are doing or tries to grapple back. Both boxing and grappling are way too limited. TKD is a lot more all-encompassing, and makes much better use of mass.
I agree, Krav Maga is an extremely efficient martial art (next to Wing Tsjun and MCMAP, probably the best), and will serve you much better than boxing or kickboxing (or TKD for that matter).Quote:
Originally Posted by Afonso I of Portugal
It actually shares many principles in common with Wing Tsjun:
Simultaneous defense and attack.
Targetting vulnerable areas.
Chain attacks, etc, etc.
The techniques can be very different, but they share the same principles (which are much more important than the individual techniques).
On the subject of boxing and TKD, these TKDist are better boxers than any amateur boxers I have seen. They got better form, speed, and power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzFBkpsetI8
(kick)boxing makes excellent use of weight. You won't be caught of balance. No offence but you've only been in two real fights, you have little hope of winning from someone more routined. Here's why: you are thinking about what you are doing. (kick)boxing is closest to a real fight so it absolutely got the edge.
Yeah, I know that I have very limited experience in fights Frags, but I think that I understand them pretty well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
A: I have seen a lot of fights, and witnessed how they go down.
B: Some of the guys (and girls actually :P) who I do martial arts with fight a lot.
C: I have enough experience fighting to realize the rush and confusion that comes with a fight. (and I know what it is to completely flub what you try to do :P)
I am not claiming to be an expert fighter, but I do know this: TKD works. Wing Tsjun also works very well. The first time I was ever attacked, it was by a guy I knew who had 5 years of boxing experience (which is not to say that he was a good boxer, he was lazy and unmotivated). I was able to stop his groin kick, his punch, and take him to the ground nearly instantly. I know that it works.
Also, I have sparred with kickboxers before, and honestly was not impressed. Their hand-work (like that of boxers) leaves much to be desired, and their kicks are not direct enough. (By this I mean that the kickboxers I have sparred with have all done the same thing: throw a bunch of low rounds to my knees, and I just have to lunge in with a front kick and knock them over.)
Most martial artist I meet, when I tell them that I practice Taiji, TKD, and WT, they are not impressed at all. That said, most of them gain some amount of respect for the arts after sparring with me. Unfortunately, I cannot demonstrate that for you, so we must agree to disagree.
Coincidently, while I have been having this conversation, my brother has been having a similar one with his History professor, who is also a professional boxer. (This woman)
He wants to get into boxing so that he can win the golden gloves, and he is convinced that he can beat any of the boxers out there. They only problem is that he cannot compete without a coach. He asked her, and when she saw his technique and he explained his strategy she ripped him apart and said he punched like a six year old and would get punched in the head. :P
It amazes me the lack of respect boxers have for things that they do not even understand. Let's just say that I was sorely tempted when I heard that to show her otherwise. :P
they are horrendous. bad stance poor guards no body shotsQuote:
Originally Posted by Vuk
I never said that they were perfect boxers (and they are actually doing a mix of TKD and boxing :P), but they are just random kids and still better than the junk you see at most Golden Gloves matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion1
Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFDHKBp5XRQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdeXPkfXA3Y
These guys are pathetic.
These 'pathetic guys' will absolutely destroy these kids, how do they want to block a punch when their feet aren't even on the ground, they'll be send flying
Sorry Frags, I don't know what you are talking about. The TKDist are very grounded when on the defense. Also, they are much faster and have much crisper cleaner technique than the boxers (as well as better instincts). I think that any comparison drawn between the two would be greatly to the disadvantage of the boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
All of these fighters would murder any of us
There skills are so far beyond what any of us have attained is literally lol to compare
It would be like me putting up a video of an IFBB comp and saying yea we all look like that
Or a video of Phil Pfister and saying yea we're all that strong
lol, speak for yourself Strike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
LO freaking LQuote:
Originally Posted by Vuk
Dellusions of granduer
It reminds me of the guys who tell me they'll be in WSM or in Olympia. To compete at that level you need inate godgiven talent and gentics
If none of us have made it there yet, we aint making it
lol, sorry Strike, but most of those golden gloves guys are a bunch of talentless bums who don't know anything about how to fight. That is why my bro wants to get into boxing, to show them how to really fight. :P All he has to do now if find a coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Yeah, you are right to a degree: they work much harder than I do now and are in much better physical condition. That said though, they don't know how to fight! They just rely on size and being able to take a bunch of hits. Their technique stinks, they are slow, they are not that powerful, etc, etc.
EDIT: You see Strike, I would have superior technique, speed, and power on my side, and they would only have endurance and possibly conditioning.
I'm convinced you're a trollQuote:
Originally Posted by Vuk
Those guys would tear you open and leave you crying
I'm done arguing this craziness, I should've stayed out of the thread
lol, because you know so much about me, right? :P Or maybe because you know so much about martial arts? (the guy who admitted to knowing nothing about them)Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuk
Look at Centurions video, they are bouncing around like rabbits. At 0:11 he completely drops his guard, they are constantly moving away from eachother instead of closing in. They leave their kidneys unprotected, and don't even go for eachother's. Don't know about you but a fully propelled hit knocks me out cold wherever you hit me. But especially there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuk
I never said that they were perfect, but they are a lot better than those idiots from the golden gloves. And I think you are being too hard on them too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UTdnF5sif8Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Look at this garbage! This is what my State turns out!
You really have that high an opinion of an idiot like this? Boxing stinks, but this guy cannot even box well! Heck, even my brother's professor, Reejhsinghani (a champion boxer) said that Wisconsin boxers are horrible. Really Strike, they stink. It does not take a lot to beat guys like that.
I put 100x more faith in those guys who are showing results than someone who once posted a picture of himself showing up to a karate class in a collared shirt and jeans
martial arts and the stregnth world have many similarties. The guys who talk the loudest and think there the baddest generally aint nothing. I've seen many a man walk into a gym 3x a week to do curls and bench thinking he knew what he was doing. Then come up to me and tell me I'm doing it wrong. I just nod and go back to what I know works
People think they can replicate what they see in both sports fairly eaisly and they are wrong.
You are simply a curl jockey of the martial arts world, I know this simply by the way you carry yourself in these conversations
lol, it was a Wing Tsun seminar, not a Karate class. I wore street clothes because we were instructed to do so for the seminar. When you train in Wing Tsun you try to simulate real conditions as much as possible. Yes, there are Wing Tsjun uniforms, but they are particular to school and style, and for a self-defense seminar based in Wing Tsjun, you are supposed to wear street clothes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Sorry, but I don't see the big deal. What exactly is so wrong with wearing jeans and a comfortable shirt? That is most likely what you are going to wearing in a real fight...you might as well get used to them. :P
And no, I don't think that it is easy to be a good martial artist. I have done martial arts for enough years to know that. I have come across those who were truly good martial artists who I know I could never compare to, and then I have come across the idiots who do well in a sport simply because the sport is dead and not enough people are willing to waste their time. How many boxing gyms are in Wisconsin? 17 total! EDIT: compared to 272 in Texas for example!
It would seem we have a disagreement.
Wisconsin, Stevens Point. PM me and I can give you specifics. ~;) Trust me, I don't mind beating sense into violent idiots with a chip on their shoulder...not that you are one of course!
In all seriousness, I don't mind having friendly sparring matches with people who doubt my martial arts, I have done it quite a few times before. What I do mind is violent little boys who feel the need to threaten me because they disagree with fighting style or philosophy. Get over yourself.
One should really avoid violence if possible...
Agreed. That is why I am such an inexperienced fighter. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by A Nerd
golden glove champions would wreck you. no one who has any fighting ability brags about. therefore from your incessant bragging i deduced your being either a troll or your a tool.
inexperienced? i wouldnt say so ive been enrolled in boxing since i was nine. am i going to walk around talking about what a boss i am? no because that is immature and ignorant.
lol, I actually only talked about my martial art, not myself until you brought me into the equation. Sorry, but I have seen the guys who win in Wisconsin, and they really are not all that. I know that there are lots of boxers who can kick my butt, but I doubt that I am gonna find them amongst Wisconsin's amateur boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion1
And speaking of mature, like threatening to hunt someone down and assault them? That is really mature, isn't it?
Honestly Centurion, I don't give a crap if you have dabbled in a useless, dying sport since you were nine, because that means nothing to me. Get over yourself and quit being suck a hostile *#&$.
Now boxing is useless and dying? lol
A very good troll
It's whatever
Meh, violence rocks (countryboy me context, too much testosteron, not enough girls), a physical ad hominum was standard procedure. Totally harmless, a hour later we were usually drinking beers again, boys willl be boys fun timesQuote:
Originally Posted by A Nerd
Thread closed.