Fighting at forests

I really hate fighting at forests. I have to keep my eye all the time in the minimap and cant see the battle. It's very hard to control an army you cant see. Is there anyway to take out the forests? I mean, the forest is there in the campaign map, but in battle the groud is all clean. This would not affect ambushs.

I am playing a romani game and is very annoying to conquer gauls because of the damn forests. I am thinking how is goin to be fight germany and their motherfckr black forest. Please save my campaign.

Why don´t you see it as a challenge? ;)
Btw: wait for Dugundiz to see this thread, i´m sure he´ll give you some valuable tips how to fight in those nasty dark places.

If you mean the big redwoods, there's a mod to remove those, and I agree, those are completely ridiculous. Not only were there not redwoods in ancient Gaul/Germania, but there was also no way in hell any army (ambushers or not) would fight in that thick of a forest, because of that exact reason. But if you just mean regular forests, with the smaller trees, then you shouldn't have so much trouble with that. It's a bit more of a challenge for factions like the Romani, but that's normal, and should be expected. Don't go in forests if you can help it, and if you can't force a plains battle, then you'll have to deal with the consequences.

do it the roman way: if your enemies defeat your 3 legions, send 13. simple as that

You need this mod to remove the stupid, over-sized trees.

Ridiculous is not really well describing word:D

Anyway i dont like any trees or forests in-game.Mostly because all my battles in forest (after fixing giant trees) happens in sight of lovely plains,just behind the red border line!

I expect something more from my FM with 5 stars and mostly phalanx army then end in the deepest woods available after 3 months of manoeuvring.Despite all my efforts in camping map to stay out of forest.
Trait "Dangerous idiot" should be added,all stars and influence removed and charecter moved to the cheapest ship and send him to hunt down multistacks of pirates:)

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Originally Posted by william weedzor

I expect something more from my FM with 5 stars and mostly phalanx army then end in the deepest woods available after 3 months of manoeuvring.Despite all my efforts in camping map to stay out of forest.
Trait "Dangerous idiot" should be added,all stars and influence removed and charecter moved to the cheapest ship and send him to hunt down multistacks of pirates:)

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You should expect more from yourself. don't send your armies into the forests. They are dangerous. You do get to choose your the field of battle, and a good commander makes sure its advantageous to them. But I love having a small Sweboz army decimating the armies of Rome in the forests of Germania.

Foot

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Originally Posted by Foot

You should expect more from yourself. don't send your armies into the forests. They are dangerous. You do get to choose your the field of battle, and a good commander makes sure its advantageous to them.

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I don't think it's that easy, sometimes the battlemap seems to differ from the campaign one. Instead of standing on hills or beeing next to a forest the enemy has the hill or you are in the forest...

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

do it the roman way: if your enemies defeat your 3 legions, send 13. simple as that

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Ha! Outstanding.

Admittedly, this was a rare occasion where I was the one getting attacked, but I often try something simmilar in forest even if I attack. That is find a clearing and get the enemy to come to you by shooting at them. Here my allied alpine celts sent their trademark greetings to the Averni Gauls:

https://img42.imageshack.us/img42/37...rgreetings.gif
(It was the only clearing in my deployment zone, and I think the only one on the whole battlemap, on the Strategymap it was openfield though with forest ordering on two sides.)

I agree about the stupid oversized trees, they totally ruin the feeling, plus they ruin the battlefield as well since they when close together trap soldiers everywhere, which would also be very weird on a real battlefield.

I hate fighting in forests because historically most factions would never do it, they'd seek out a good and fairly open field to fight on. If a phalanx-army attacks you in a forest it's just... weird.

"Don't go in the forest" is well and good, but it's hard to see on the campaign map just what the engine will interpret as "forest" on the tactical map.

Germanic tribes launching an ambush is a different story, though. They're supposed to do this kind of thing.

All in all it's one thing Medieval 2 does much better. No annoying forest-fights there.

IIRC, you can alt(or is it ctrl?) + right click on the campaign map to see if this spot is "wooded".

If you find yourself on a battlefield with too many trees and you don't want to fight in a dense forest - then in many cases, you don't have to. Just deploy your army as far away from the enemy as possible, start the battle, highlight all your units and click the withdraw icon. The battle ends with no casualties on either side. On the next turn, move your army somewhere else.

try Alt+right clicking on the campain map and dont fight in woods if youre not an barbarian ambusher

Thanks for the tips. I tried the mod and so far i've not seen the goddamned sequoias.

Huh. So many years of playing these games and there's still interface tricks I don't know. I'll definitely remember that one. Thanks!

Though it seems that I actually just need to right-click with nothing selected. ctrl-click or alt-click don't seem to make any difference.

Another idea is to zoom down close to the unit level, ie so the camera is underneath the trees. You can see whats going on much better that way and it creates a nice atmosphere, simulating the chaos and excitement of a forest fight.

Of course you can also just keep your troops hidden and let the enemy attack you. Most of the time emerging troops, javelin volleys and a flank charge will send them running. But keep the cavalry hidden until you need to chase down some routers!

Hey guys, I've got the same problem. Not the same, but almost. I am playing as Saka and i have fought 2 or 3 battles without a heavy forested map. How can it be? The trees are not big (because of the minimod) but I'd like to cut off all the trees of the game...I am on a steppe...How can I do it?

I really love fighting in forests ^^
As tips, I play zoomed where the action will take place the most, but with cav or flankers need to pause :P

i hate forest fights unleass i can hide my batle line and my secondary skirmisher batleline on the treeline (even elite run like hell when they get in range and get hailled by massive shower of javelins)

fighting in forest and not being able to see the enemy troop movements suchs big time and it always ends up with me loosing precious soldiers and then having to scur the forest to look for the enemies that passed the batleline and routed off my slingers or archers

when I fight forest battles with an ample army(I'm not badly outnumbered and have a lot of infantry with staying power) I tend to zoom in THE MINIMAP so I can see every soldier as a separate spot. It's tricky but with this tecnique the battle plays just like a normal infantry field battle.

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Originally Posted by Foot

You should expect more from yourself. don't send your armies into the forests. They are dangerous. You do get to choose your the field of battle, and a good commander makes sure its advantageous to them. But I love having a small Sweboz army decimating the armies of Rome in the forests of Germania.

Foot

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Well, sometimes you'll have clear plains on the strategy map and will still end up on a densely forested map in battle mode...

Hire a stack of Germans and throw it at the Germans.

So...is it impossible?

battling in forests needs even more micromanaging than horse archer armies. if you are the ambushers it is good news just encircle the enemy and decimate them but if you are ambushed just order your important general run away. I learned why it is so important to have one unit of scout army after I ordered one of my consular army to siege a celtic town, and ambushed, my consule KIA..

other than ambushes normal forest battles gives you advantage on lots of things , archers and cavalry sucks in forests that is why no nomads managed to rule germany with the exception of Attila.

and if you are defender in fact less probable.... let the enemy tire their soldiers.
use and prefer javeliners who are better than archers in forests.

if you are attacker the most common scenario, if you have archers just use them to reveal hidden units as they have no use other than it.

if the situation getting worse use emergency orders : defending triangle / square, cavalry charge at enemy's back... and pray of course....

Hire Germanic/Celtic regionals and local mercenaries, forget about battle formations and chaaaarge! chaaaaaarge! chaaaaarge!!!. Maybe leave in reserve the FM, another cavalry unit and some skirmishers to flank the enemy and shower the ones with no armour with javelins (if possible in the ensuing mayhem).

I do not mind, when playing as the Celts or Germans, fighting in forests. It's the 'barbarian way' and historically they are excellent hit-and-run ambusher types with large pitched battles as a secondary fighting preference.

Still the huge trees are somewhat of a nuisance.

What about chariot + auto calc?

To fight in forrests was dificult yesterday and now a days too! Take a look on Vietinã war to remember that...
My advice is:
Put your infantry in loose formation and attack them like animals! try to flank them with your cavalary or round the enemy lines and attack them behind.
Use this formation to enter in a forrest:
10 heavy infantry, prefer swordman units to spearman;
5 light infantry or spearmans;
4 heavy cavalary;
1 General.

In a jungle, fight like animal, defensive formations or organized attack don't work like in open fields.

This is one of my pet peaves with this game... No ancient commander fought in forest... They used the forests to define the battlefield.
Did Boadicea's army march through the forest to flank the Romans? No! The Romans used the forest to cover their flanks and force the Britons to attack their narrow front. Forests should be impassible on the tactical map, like they were to armies historically.
Anything other than ambush in a forest is totally ahistorical and I do not participate in this BS.
I march to my Greek enemy and attack him. He sets up his phalanxes in a.... forest??? Reload, march 1 depleted skirmisher to contact, auto-win, move on...
This is the reason I don't play Celts or Germans in this game anymore.

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Originally Posted by Kromulan

This is one of my pet peaves with this game... No ancient commander fought in forest... They used the forests to define the battlefield.
Did Boadicea's army march through the forest to flank the Romans? No! The Romans used the forest to cover their flanks and force the Britons to attack their narrow front. Forests should be impassible on the tactical map, like they were to armies historically.
Anything other than ambush in a forest is totally ahistorical and I do not participate in this BS.
I march to my Greek enemy and attack him. He sets up his phalanxes in a.... forest??? Reload, march 1 depleted skirmisher to contact, auto-win, move on...
This is the reason I don't play Celts or Germans in this game anymore.

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I not agree... Ambush using florests as camouflage was used at past end still in use today. The buttle's tatics need to be change to fight in florests it's the unic thing to take care.
To your self improvement, take a look in this link, You will see real battle reports form the anchient age in forests:
http://www.kalkriese-varusschlacht.de/index/getlang/en
http://www.livius.org/te-tg/teutoburg/teutoburg01.htm

But, usualy generals avert to battle in forests.

generally large armies "met" for a battle and thus choose terrain that favors their troops(or is to the likeing of their troops). So restricting movement would be the wrong way to go as armies DID move through forests, eventho they preffered roads. A "solution" would be to restict all non-ambush fights to open plains on the battlemap which I think is totally impossible :D

btw, yes those hellenic battles in a hilly mountainous and forested spots are really annoying no Greek general in his right mindwould fight in such wooded canyons as you see them in EB western greece. When two armies(of similar tradition) meet they set up camps and fight on a field where they can deploy all their men without the fear of loosing some in the woods or due to cliff-hangin. Sometimes a army assaulted the enemy camp without first defeating the Army (meggido).

considering the way that thureporoi are depicted and the fact that we know that there was constant increase in the amount of skirmishers in most armed forces in the poleis of greece i think the greeks of eb timeframe would disagree they started using all the advantages they could and that includes forcing the enemies to go uphill or deprive them of their static formations

remember greeks of the golden age fighted against hoplites or light armed troops while the greeks of the golden age had to deal with keltoi romanoi skytioi dacians illyrians punics and most importantly the other hellenes wich used the sarissas so fighting in "broken" terrain favoured them since their current enemies unlike the golden age wich where persians and other greeks would fare worse and depending on how the batle ended they had more room to manouver politically wich was their way

by this time war was no longer over "honor" it started to be over ownership if you lost you could loose your city and not just your military navy limited to 12 warships you could loose your freedom and become a slave and not just the loss of a trade route

skirmishes are fought at random REAL battles were still fought on open plains, not because of an obscure honor code but for the simple reasons I already stated: space to deploy and use one's troops, overviewing your own troops, safety reasons, tradition...
the majority of magor battles were fought between two camps whose armies met on a great plain when one was in the area. Skirmishes however took place everywhere and always, the developement of thureophoroi only shows that skirmishes were Important and that flanking was a good Idea. It did happen(probably quite often) that skirmishers, cavalry or shock infantry or other dudes who were assigned their roles hidd in the battle defineing forest that BORDERED the battlefield and as part of a sly plan sprung out to attack the outflanked foe from behind.

And when it says the Greeks used broken terrian than that probably means they occupied passes/choakepoints, like at thermopylai, not wooded hills with a slope of 60°.

in a nutshell: Skirmishes + Forest = all the time; Real battles + Forest = seldom; Army Movement + Forest = plan B.

"in a nutshell: Skirmishes + Forest = all the time; Real battles + Forest = seldom; Army Movement + Forest = plan B"

Succinctly put!

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Originally Posted by Kromulan

This is one of my pet peaves with this game... No ancient commander fought in forest... They used the forests to define the battlefield.
Did Boadicea's army march through the forest to flank the Romans? No! The Romans used the forest to cover their flanks and force the Britons to attack their narrow front. Forests should be impassible on the tactical map, like they were to armies historically.
Anything other than ambush in a forest is totally ahistorical and I do not participate in this BS.
I march to my Greek enemy and attack him. He sets up his phalanxes in a.... forest??? Reload, march 1 depleted skirmisher to contact, auto-win, move on...
This is the reason I don't play Celts or Germans in this game anymore.

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If you attack an AI army, and it sets up in a forest where you don't want to fight, then get the AI to come out to you.

Set up your general with a couple of other units as a 'sacrificial decoy' force in a wide clearing, or outside the forest. Then hide all your other units deep in the forest, on the edge of the map, allowing a wide unit-free route between your general and the enemy. This should draw the enemy army out to attack your general. Once you have drawn the enemy army out into the open, and ideally pinned them down in hand to hand combat so they can't redeploy, your hidden units run out to take the enemy on the flanks and rear. The trick is, your decoy force must be weak enough to entice the enemy out to attack, but strong enough to engage them just long enough for your hidden flanking units to come to the rescue. In the worst case scenario, your decoy units might take very heavy losses, but that doesn't matter as long as you win the overall battle.

i like playing in the woods when its foggy... my "picts" attacking and disappearing like wraiths in the fog