EB - Questions and first thoughts

Hello all.

I am a veteran vanilla VH/VH RTW/BI player and since I am an ancient era fan I decided to give EB a go for the challenge.I chose Koinon Hellinon, Med/Med to get the grasp of the game.
At first I thouht it should be hard because Macedonia had a bunch of army stacks and even lost Athens.But later on when I built my economy it was very easy.I am now going to try on VH/H as most suggest.

Overall my first impression is WTF! I can not believe the community has built such a nice, historically detailed and challenging mod.My
respect to the creators.

I have a question.While I patched with 1.2 in EB folder (when asked in the installation prompt) I have version 1.1 at the bottom left and comparing the units to those advertised on the main site of EB they are not the same? Probably I have not patched to 1.2 but why?

Also in Sparta I can not build a government type.Is that normal or a bug?

Thanks.

Hello and welcome to the org!

The answer to your first question is that you should install 1.2 into your Rome - Total War folder (the same place you installed 1.1), and not the EB folder. I can't answer the second question about Sparta, though.

Hello Celtic Viking.

You were right about patching, now I am on 1.2
What is strange, I loaded my 1.1 save and started normally.Still no new units are available as shown in this page.

Maybe I have to start a new game which I plan to do.

Thanks for replying.

what units are you missing?
it could be a few things you are missing;
You don't have the correct regional or factional barracks built.

The 'factional' units like the Distinguished Hoplites and Rhodian Slingers are mostly going to be recrutable in Sparta (for Spartans), Rhodes (Slingers), Corinth and Athens, etc.
This isn't RTW where you can recruit Praetorian Guards from Rhodos and England, but must recruit from the native populace and their own fighting styles. So the farther you leave from Hellas, the more locals you will have to rely on.

If you are looking for the Macedonian style phalanx, that is dependent on a reform though im not sure which.

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Originally Posted by Ksifos

Hello Celtic Viking.

You were right about patching, now I am on 1.2
What is strange, I loaded my 1.1 save and started normally.Still no new units are available as shown in this page.

Maybe I have to start a new game which I plan to do.

Thanks for replying.

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Yes, save games from 1.1 are not compatible with 1.2 - so starting new campaign is essential.

Macedon style phalanx ( aka phalangitai ) are available for Koinon Helenion after the March of Time "reform" happens ( the vanilla "Marian Reform" when Romans have to build a huge city in Italy, not Roma, though ).

Well I started a new v1.2, VH/H campaign.

I quickly grabbed Creta and Korinthos.Currently I am besieging Chalkis.Obviously Macedonians are pissed off and are targetting Athens.
In contrast with my 'easy' game their navy prevailed and I am on the run in the sea.This is going to be fun :-)

Now I am in the minus so cant build anything, but my question was about government building type in Sparta, because in my v1.1 game that wasnt possible and as a result I couldnt recruit any decent units, despite having the top barracks built.Is this normal?

Second, in the EB page it says I can recruit Spartiatai Hoplitai and other Elite units.Is this now possible and where? In Sparta only?
Also there is a second barracks type building which havent yet understood its purpose.Any help is appreciated.

Thanks for the replies guys.

PS - Greek generals on foot! That unit is solid steel!

If I recall correctly, the government is already built in Sparte? It would be a picture of a large building with a I on it.

Remember that you have 4 types of government, check the FAQ for more info on them.

Good luck with the campaign!

~Fluvius

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Originally Posted by Ksifos

Second, in the EB page it says I can recruit Spartiatai Hoplitai and other Elite units.Is this now possible and where? In Sparta only?
Also there is a second barracks type building which havent yet understood its purpose.Any help is appreciated.

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it could be a few things you are missing;
You don't have the correct regional or factional barracks built.

The 'factional' units like the Distinguished Hoplites and Rhodian Slingers are mostly going to be recrutable in Sparta (for Spartans), Rhodes (Slingers), Corinth and Athens, etc.
This isn't RTW where you can recruit Praetorian Guards from Rhodos and England, but must recruit from the native populace and their own fighting styles. So the farther you leave from Hellas, the more locals you will have to rely on.

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to expound on the barracks and the reason that you built the highest yet 'cant recruit decent units' is because, again;
There is a factional barracks in which the fighting styles of your culture are taught
there is a regional barracks in which the fighting styles of conquered people are taught

if you built the highest level of barracks yet can't recruit 'decent' units its either; you built a regional barracks in a homeland territory, or a factional barracks in a conquered land.


factional barracks in your case should be built mostly in Hellas proper, so Sparta, Athens, Corinth, Rhodes. These barracks will eventually allow you the training of the famous Rhodian Slingers and Spartan Hoplites.

regional barracks should be built to high levels in conquered regions, like Galatia in Asia Minor. Some places like Halicarnassus benefit greatly from both regional and factional barracks as they have diverse unit pools.

there´s also the tip of the pelloponese wich enables you acess to 3 diferent merc pools when you´re swimming in cash you might want to visit it (only acessable by sea) and recruit a few units there wich are very usefull particulary against the roman scum since their armies tend to be hard so normally i just recruit 3 full stacks there and ferry them to sicily magna graecia or a litle bit further north using useless fm´s to either block them (or siege them) or delay their advances while your "league" army is busy elsewhere

due to roleplaying I have a hard time having a mercenary arming acting without an allied general or family member.

Guys I apologize since now the building is there in Sparta.Where the "HOMELAND AVAILABLE" trait exists a Type I government is possible.That was what I was asking.Probably next time I should look better even when I am in the minus and all are greyed out :-P

For my next question, what is the purpose of building a "conscription center", that is the second barracks type in my homeland cities.I mean do I get any extra units for example in Sparta or Athens? Or this is only for more distant provinces like Rhodes and such?
As far as I understand it (with fomalhaut explanation) I should only build factional barracks and not this auxiliary barracks in Greece.Right or not?

Small update - Macedonian did hit hard and to save Athens I had to sacrifice three generals (among them my faction leader) in a battle near the city.Afterwards He besieged Athens two times got repelled and now, having had one of his fleets with ten units gone to the bottom of the sea :-D, tries to replenish his armies.But I have a decent economy now and "To Macedonia" is a near future possibility.The question atm is Epirus.Should I hit them or let them be as a "buffer" to a potential Roman invasion? My advisor cries out for Delphi being besieged by barbarians :-P

moonburn - You mean the middle leg of Pelloponese where it has 3 different borders? Neat! Well I think this faction is viable atm but I too have the question of what will happen when Romans invade.I was hoping of a strong economy and an elite native greek army.Maybe I am wrong we shall see :-)

IIRC, Epirus besieging Aetolia should trigger a script and put you at war with them.

My experience shows that Epirus as a buffer state doesn't work; they either get stomped by SPQR or it works too well (Epirus possessing the whole illyrian coast) and they become a problem for you. Then, they eventually get crushed between SPQR and you, and in the best case scenario, get exiled in Central Europe.
Mind you, in the meantime, Epirus does a fine job building KH-friendly structures (I'm thinking mines and barracks ripe for the taking.)

I don't think building a local MIC in Sparta serves any purpose; the client ruler/general you may recruit is not worth sacrificing the higher tier of buildings you could reach with a homeland goverment. Wait, the recruitment of client ruler is now tied to the lvl4 building itself... So, no purpose whatsoever in doing so in Sparta.

For your recruitment need, check the Recruitment Viewer which should come installed with EB, and,
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/index.php

More on recruitment:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...nt-information

Poulp - You got it pretty right.I was forced to redesign my strategy.I wanted to capture Pergamon and Halikarnassos so that I would boost my sea trade, which I think is vital for getting a strong economy as Greece.But Seleucids got there first :-P
So now I turned on Epirus and hope to establish friendly relations with the Senate, for serving two purposes.Take advantage of the Adriatic intertrade since I believe Epirus now is a possible target and earn some time before Romans invade Greece.
Only thing that worries me is that AI has advanced in tech and I have to build numbers in case the inevitable happens.

Still learning the game but all things I see are well designed and to the right direction.Like for example roads add to law, that's very correct.
Maybe CA should give this mod the proper attention and get some useful ideas for the next series of RTW.

I actually like turning Epirotes into Illyrians, while playing KH, once their cities are ripe, as Poulp noticed.
If they survive long enough, they might have built large mines in Illyria by then - another full harvest ;)

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Originally Posted by vollorix

I actually like turning Epirotes into Illyrians, while playing KH, once their cities are ripe, as Poulp noticed.
If they survive long enough, they might have built large mines in Illyria by then - another full harvest ;)

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Thanks for the tip. :2thumbsup:

i normally try to dislodge the epirotes as fast as possible and them pay them a small fortune so as they keep fighting in tarentum if worked properly (and it happens 15% of the cases i tried both with maks aswell as with kh) they take arpis messana rhegion and develop that entire area while keeping the romans under pressure wich enables me to reach with a diplomat in time to the aedui to forge an alliance and send a quick stack to take bononia and gift it to them (not patavium tough you want the silver mines of segestica at full work)

quick advice save up a bit and hurry up taking naissos and building forts on the river passages of the danube that normally leaves the getai fighting the triballoi (?) and they won´t bother you for a few decades (as in they won´t venture south of the danube except for kallatis wich they normally take )

also the money cows are dalmatia must have develop fast and build the best mines as fast as possible 6.300 mnai per turn and also makedonia 4.800 mnai per turn are your best economical aproach and remember mining might not get you snow white fast but it helps paying for her presents later :P

moonburn - thanks for the nice ideas.Still the game sometimes leads your strategies than yourself.To add to that, I am amazed of how well the whole faction system is balanced, avoiding the gangbanging tactics of vanilla.My hats off to the moders - once again.

I had two unepxected events, the Pergamon and Hellikarnasos under Seleucid control, rebelled and put my flag.That immediately put me into war with Seleucid and had to disperse my units in three different fronts.I am already in a long war with Epiroted but I cant beat them.I was blind to think of them as an easy prey and that reminded me of two things.First scout well, second do not underestimate the Elite units in EB :-P
Macedonia presses me in the northern front, continually besieging Demetrias.Had to fight there too, and finally built a stone wall to get some basic protection.
I now have the money but...having NOT payed attention I spent all population of Athens into retraining my armies (my main tech city) and now no more good units for me.That's where mercenaries come into play.Another aspect very well designed in EB (city manpower, use of mercs).
Good thing is Epirote is also drained and does not attack with Elite units but more with mercs armies.
Probably my next step is getting Pella as you sugest.

Overall my BEST game in RTW.Gone to "Continue Campaign". :-D

yeah wait till Sinope or Massilia defect to you THAT is where problems start :D and there is more to come ;)

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

yeah wait till Sinope or Massilia defect to you THAT is where problems start :D and there is more to come ;)

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Lol can't wait to that.

A Small update - I finally pushed Epirotes away form Aetolia.They also lost a major battle on the mountains of west greece and now I am besieging Ambrakia.Hopefully I will conquer it.In the Macedonian front, I took Pella which was plagued but DIDN'T show in the city details card.As a result my general is plagued now.
The Macedonian had not said his final word.He brought a full (!) stack from Byzantium besieged and conquered Pergamon.In the meantime I brought a good army from main land to instantly besiege Pergamon so that he doesn't destroy my buildings.And I succeeded.Took the city back intact :-)
I am now in a state where money flows but lacking better units.So its time for a small brake from military operations, to tech up in some cities with good population to serve as bases of conscription.

Only problem so far is a lot of random CTDs, especially after battles :-/

if you want advice on CTD's, this is what i do; only fight two battles per play session. SAVE before every battle as well. I have found that on my third battle crashes pretty consistently so just exit to desktop and return.

it's annoying, but would you rather refight the Heroic Victory against 4000 desperate Epirotes? I'm on a Macedonia campaign, after killing the last of the Aikaides my enmity against the Epirotes ended and am now supporting some Syrakusan who has taken the mantle to defend Magna Graeca (i don't want to!). Pyhrrus went all the way to rome with those blasted elephants! I invaded and with Rome retook every city, reinstalled Rome's government (since the AI will just build another one instead of repairing their own) and gave everything but Tarantem to Rome after killing Pyhrrus and Alexandros. The aforementioned Syrakusan is now receiving 6000 minai a year to keep his fight going, this time to Sicily! Pretty cool anecdote on the other end of Greece for ya! :)

I read on another topic setting the CPU affinity on one core, since I am on a multi-core machine but that didn't help either.I am so desperate I may try Windows Update's compatibility fixes, since in RTW Vanilla I seldom get a CTD.Now I save every major battle before and after :-/

Small update - having took Ambrakia a FULL stack came from the north led by their faction leader and besieged the city.I had my faction leader town and quickly raised an army both recruiting and hiring mercs.Needles to say this was the most exciting battle ever played in RTW (until the next one :-P).Around 6000 soldiers fighting to death.A real bloodbath! I was amazed to see the AI taking his general out of battle and re-charging.Man these guys have done some serious job! I almost lost the battle when my general on foot and a couple of his army ran after their general but he was on horses, so had to round him.Meanwhile around three of his units were chasing me - it was a lol situation.I only killed him for seconds before their units reached me but then lost morale and routed.An "Average Victory" that cost me my faction leader (AI controlled, died heroically) but a massive blow to the Epirotes and Ambrakia with a royal barrack for us!

Fomalhaut - I guess you play with KH and you employ some commando tactics :-) Invading Italy and restoring Romans! What round are you at? Because in my game at the begining I am struggling to field a decent army against the Macedones - economy is very thin.And they push really hard.
What about Seleucids? You should already have Lesbos and Seleucids should be probing you (Spies, small armies).

KH was one of my first campains in eb! and one of my favorites because of the scripts and the iconic cities and culture.

As Makedon I am staying in Europa for now, with only Lesbos in Asia. AS sent an army of, yes, 7 syrian archers to besiege Byzantion. I just forced diplomacy to make peace because i refuse to go to war with my long term allies because their AI is dumb as to send, yes, again, 7 syrian archers (not seven units! seven syrians in one unit) to BESIEGE A CITY. sometimes i hate this game.

I just ended the Getai, their citizens distributed to war torn Hellas as even Pella itself has only 1200 people. Doing what Philip did all over again isn't an easy task and many men had to be taken from their farms to restore Macedon.

oh those fights against Epirotes are the best! did they bring elephants with them in you battle?

still remember killing off virtually all their proffessional/veteran troops with mostly levys. special mention to a unit of hoplitai haploi who killed both units of elephants, they had been peppered with loads of javelins but just did not die, when (after crushing my ekdromoi) all of them got killed by this gang of Hoplitai haploi, totally explainable but man, those guys must've felt awesome^^ many a man lost his life that day but when the dust cleared, I had a bunch of veterans and the epirotes lost a fullstack with all their jokers^^.

Imo the Epirotes are the ideal enemy in the KH campaign:
they have immediate acess to your inital expansion territories
you don't have to throw them out of their homeland to get going (like the macedons)
they have amoung the most powerfull elite units they throw at you in reasonable quantities (unlike AS or Romani)
for some odd reason you don't always face phalangites when fighting them(the aforementioned battle actually only had two units of them.
you fight them at a time when you just start training levy or first medium grade troops.
and they are not so damn dug in like the AS or ptolemies or migrate to strage places like the romans when you got em, you got em and can either end it or let them live just alittle longer

Yes the Epirotes are the ideal enemy, as Makedon you mostly fight them with your levy's against their semi professional force. Every battle is very close and you use every available unit, you get to appreciate akontistai and to really appreciate peltasts when you can finally recruit them.

and when you actually fight battles against Pyhrrus himself it's really really fun! because he is easily the best general at that point in the game so it's kind of intimidating, and as Macedon there is the personal enmity against him due to his usurping of the throne of Macedonia. it's not just another general, but freaking Pyhrrus of Epirote! lot's of fun roleplaying opportunities in Mak and KH early game because of the Epirotes

In my campaign no elephants hopefully, but quite often armies with elite units.Mainly Chaeonion Agema, Thorakitai and Heavy Cavalry.I seldom confronted them in the open, cause my best infantry was Ekdromoi which I think are less good than Aploi maybe because of their formation.Ekdromoi can not stand a long fight with heavy infantry, are excellent though at chasing skirmishers and good against cavalry under circumstances.
I was positioning my armies in defensive spots usually mountains and while in the calculation they always had a safe margin, in the battle they become exhausted and that was a HUGE advantage.I took out some of their armies that way and when had the opportunity grabbed cities.

Having just a little experience of KH campaign I tend to agree, Epirotes should be left alone, so to develop the area for you.If I knew the "defect cities" scenario I wouldnt have attacked them.

What exactly do you mean you give money to other factions? Using the "Attack Faction" in diplo or just gifting them? Because the "Attack Faction" in vanila is flawed, does it work in EB?

i'm not sure if the 'attack faction' really works, but i like to do it as a formality for roleplaying purposes. but i give money and territory the same way as any other diplomatic agreement. I don't want the greeks of Magna Graeca to die, so i give them lots of money to protect the hellenes there. On the other hand, I didn't want the Aikaides to rule Italy, so i had to kill them and take the assets they controlled, repair them, and give_region to Rome.

Occasionaly I also gift money and cities but only the natural diplo way - no console here :-P

Today I had a major battle near Sardike.Epirotes had a full stack with a good mix for that type of terrain (woodland).On the other hand I had a strong army with KH phalangitai. Thorakitai, KH heavy peltasts, some merc peltasts and some Hippeis.In charge was my new general talent Koios Athinaios.Despite having the edge in the pre-battle calc (8:5) I suffered a terrible defeat! I thought of putting the phalanx in the center as a rock and manoever on the flanks with the mobile thorakitai and peltasts in order to encircle the enemy.I was wrong !!! The Epirote general somehow made the pahalanxes break formation, thus being inefficient.Then he made a charge through my thorakitai (27 defense, spearmen with shield) and made them route on contact !!! I was wtf, watching my beautiful army becoming dead bodies.

That defeat tought me some lessons though.
- The phalanx needs micro-management or else its not worth it.
- Thorakitai despite the stats are not reliable or so I believe.Standard hoplite are strong defensive units, because they seem to use something like shieldwall from BI.
- I need cavalry.The Epirote had in his third row, 3 units of cavalry and that was the final blow.
- Last but not less, I wont take the calc seriously again :-P

Speaking of gangbanging.In minor asia I am in a situation where -lol with me here- Ptolemaioi backstabbed on me and allied with Seleucids !!! Two vast empires in a joint war against a newly founded nation :-P
Needless to say while Seleucids are thin on resources, because I 've kill thousands of them, Ptolemaioi bring a LOT! Now that is a real situation! :-) My main battle ares with them is around Ipsos, which struggled to pacify.

I am on the process of eliminating Macedonia as I besiege Byzantium, their last city.One more turn to surrender.

I want to say again the battles in EB are thrilling.I 've played literally hundreds of battles in RTW/BI vanilla yet the feeling here is different.It is exciting.I can not believe such an old game had such a potential.If only the CTD problems were not there.But hey ctrl-s isn't that hard :-)

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Originally Posted by Ksifos

That defeat tought me some lessons though.

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Likely, your battle was lost due to bad terrain, exhaustion, and exploits used by the AI.

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- The phalanx needs micro-management or else its not worth it.

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True. It also always needs one or two mobile units per phalanx block to watch their backs.

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- Thorakitai despite the stats are not reliable or so I believe.Standard hoplite are strong defensive units, because they seem to use something like shieldwall from BI.

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Thorakitai are one of the best anti-cavalry troops in the game. I have lots of experience fighting against them when playing an Eastern faction. My suggestion is: Keep them, and use them in their intended roles. Classical Hoplites are better at charging the enemy or soaking up arrows. Thorakitai OTOH are like an anti-cavalry version of Legionaries, i.e. more mobile and versatile. They should also be slightly better on walls, due to having javelins (death from above) and better stamina. Though your wall fighter unit of choice against heavy troops should be Thorakitai Hoplitai, who will utilize AP swords when on walls.

Very likely, your Thorakitai were surrounded and exhausted, not to mention the AI using unfair and unrealistic exploits against you, like gold chevrons, cavalry charge-through, pike swerve, and the like.

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- I need cavalry.The Epirote had in his third row, 3 units of cavalry and that was the final blow.

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KH has very decent cavalry, though not as spectacular as other Hellenistic factions. Your strongest asset are Thessalian lancers, followed by Hippeis Xystophoroi (slightly weaker but with much better AoR), and Prodromoi. You should also utilize Hetairoi Aspidophoroi, which are quite dangerous against a variety of targets. Also, Skythian HAs are dirt cheap and supremely useful. And don't forget your run-of-the-mill Hippakontistai. They're worse than all other units I've mentioned, but still very effective against elephants. Not to mention easily available.

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Speaking of gangbanging.In minor asia I am in a situation where -lol with me here- Ptolemaioi backstabbed on me and allied with Seleucids !!! Two vast empires in a joint war against a newly founded nation :-P

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You're i luck that you are KH and not poor Saba. This happens to Saba players all the time, and they have to make do with a far inferior factional roster and infrastructure.

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Needless to say while Seleucids are thin on resources, because I 've kill thousands of them, Ptolemaioi bring a LOT! Now that is a real situation! :-) My main battle ares with them is around Ipsos, which struggled to pacify.

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Try to take Kypros from them, and use it, together with Rodos and Krete, as a naval base for raiding Alexandria etc.

atharic is right: once your troops are exhausted and under pressure, a cavalry charge with a value of 40! will rout any unit, even the Spartans, and your "tank" general bodyguards will die like flies ( heavy cav. got "ap" spears, which makes the charge even more devastating.
of course, if your general got lots of command stars and moral boosting traits and ancillaries, and is nearby the charged unit, then, and only then, they will not even get shocked, but stand their ground, at least untill they are too depleted, surrounded, and then finaly rout.
You´ve got the perfect weapon against other hellenistic nations: your spartan bodyguards - use them to counter charge the Hetairoi, and watch those super cavalry melting away. Keep a unit of Prodromoi ( a depleted one, if you have to, wich comes often handy ), in reserve to catch the tired enemy general, and your victory is secured.

I apologize I didnt give much detail for that battle.Before I do, I would like to say that I love being beaten in RTW finally (despite that AI cheats) :-P

The terrain was flat and had a clerance between the trees.That seemed ideal for the phalanx, so that I would deploy them in the center on that clearance.At the right I put my Strategos and some peltasts along with some hippeis.On the left (which was my strong flank) I had Thorakitai, KH heavy peltasts, Thraikioi Peltasts mercs, and standard Greek Hoplitai and some Thureophoroi.It was like this:

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KH Pelts__Thrakioi_Thorakitai_Phalanx_Phalanx_Phalanx_Thorakitai_Strategos_KH Pelts

-------Hoplitai-----Thureoforoi-------Hippeis------------------------------------------------------

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My strat was to throw the phalanx in center and block them, while Strategos should hold the right.In the meantime my left second row should encircle their right, while Hippeis were left as reserves.That was the plan.But there come the small battle details that as IRL may turn a whole of events.

- For example my left was inside the woods.The opposition was mainly falxmen and thought I could pepper them in javelins before I charge with my heavy infantry.In fact the peppering did work.But when charged with Thorakitai, who I micromanaged to throw all their javelins (!), I got very very surprised to see the naked falxmen cutting my spearmen in pieces.Some should say this is logical.But I was fighting three thined falxmen units with both my thorakitai and my KH peltasts while Thrakioi were throwing Javelins from behind.I thought this should work but it didnt :-P

- Second.The "phalanx-wall" in the middle wasnt working.He threw his general at first and disrupted the formation.I also didnt know that phalanx need micro-management to do damage (this is not a nice bug :-/).So that was bad decision too.

- Third.My Strategos with the help of Hippeis won the right flank and routed the opposition, but while I was both angry for losing on my left and excited for winning the right I threw him on a bunch of enemies that couldnt confront and finally he routed (after fighting like a lion).So I did my mistake too :-)

*My left was fighting conservatively, (opportunistically in terms of strategy) so no fatigue was involved.They engaged in FRESH condition.

Overall despite the loss, it was a GREAT battle and Kroios Athinaios DID refought this Epirote army.But this time he had the supreme Longhophoroi Hippeis on his side, that made the difference ;-)

Cavalry is so nicely deployed inside the game both at terms of efficiency, cost and usage.Another thumbs up to the modders.

Thanks for contributing your experience and opinion to this topic.I really like to read them.

sounds like you should be taking many screenshots and perhaps writing an after action report? i have over 1000 screenshots from the many campaigns i've done, but i get scared to write an AAR due to the high quality of many on here. EB AAR's are so above anything others due to the complexity and nuance allowed by the mechanics

Hehe that's not my intention.BTW all screenshots I take are black (Windows 7 x64).This is a NEW game to me and I am learning new things each battle.I am just posting what I am dealing with to get ideas from experienced players. :-)

For example in RTW vanila, I used to put on the flanks cavalry along with skirmishers.If an infantry or cav attack happened I usually melee and win ...FAST.Here this is not the case because of higher morale.I had for about three minutes, Macedone Akontistai in loose formation (!) fighting my Phalangitai - how can cloth wearers stand against heavy infantry for that long is beyond me, still happened and lost :-P
But on the other hand it was the fight for their survival as a nation and maybe the engine CORRECTLY boosted their morale and stats ;-)

I had a major battle in Minor Asia against Ptolemae scam.Four armies against two of mine.I had a terrible time with two of their Klerouchoi Phalangitai.I had them surrounded with 4 (!) units fighting over 5 minutes and finally my units routed, lol.
I also encountered a Klerouchoi Galatae Swordsmen cutting through my Hoplites - this was horrible.

I certainly need to change my tactics and adapt to the terrain and the new style of battles.

yeah that's a problem for me too, we both have the same OS and if it weren't for Steam's overlay screenshot feature id not have a single screenie.

Yeah, i really hope for some responses in the population script thread Vollorix made, because i really am just sick and tired of PT and AS spam. With small nations like Epirus and Macedon and the league of Hellenes, its not an issue because they each have about 3 cities. but with HUGE empires its just sooooooooooooooooooooooooo boring and a chore to fight a never ending war because their populations don't run out while mine, from retraining, are completely gone.

adapting to different tactical situations is very fun to me. Don't ask why, but Antigonos' son left with only his Hetairoi and local guides to the northern lands, areas that the Sauro nor the Sweboz dare go. Perhaps he was scouting for future allies when we go farther north than Dacia, but Makedonia had yet to lose a battle to anyone and man, we were destroyed by a local Eleutheroi Family member! He hired a full stack of locals and the tactics necessary with these types of soldiers was far different than Hammer and Anvil which won Hellas for us. The super thick swamp and woods did not leave any room for our hired cavalry or himself to maneuver, and the enemies attacked so quickly it was a joke! He knew the battle was lost, and while the enemy army chased my routing mercenaries through the dense forest, he chased the enemy general to the ends of the earth and finally overcame him. It really was epic. He is now on his way back to Makedonia, his dreams of a northern colony now lost. (that army cost 50000 which we can't afford to do again). Or perhaps he will bring the veterans and conquerers of Ambrakia, Epidamnos, Magna Graeca and Sparte in a quest to get revenge ;-) sounds like a perfect use of state funds

this got me back to my old kh campaign sadly i saw that i had done a mistake on the planing of the campaign

for kh the best step is to develop rhodes as a place to recruit your top armies avoid recruiting in athens and in sparta until you have 6.000 of population in each

1st turn break the navy send 1 to krete and 1 to rhodes to collect all the armies that you can (invade kydonia with the spy and with your initial army take the city if you´re lucky 1st round and it´s done leave the akontistai as garrison and move quickly to the peleponesos) board whatever you can from rhose including the fm and if you feel lucky take chalkis imediatly (very tough batle) or go to athens to create an army and move on korintho from the east while your spartan army should move from the south (2nd or 3rd turn) take korinthos

now concentrate your entire manpower in athens and keep ferring soldiers from rhodes (avoid fighting with the navy regroup them and if the maks come better fight a defensive war you need that navy to keep sending units from rhodes so no sea batles unleass you´re sure to win)

take chalkis if you haven´t yet (i normally like to fight it with the rhodian fm he as like 1 year to live give or take so even if he dies you never loose much)

once that is done move quickly on demetrias and try to move even quicker on pella (send the spy ahead to check things ) remove the makedonians from europe and let them have lesbos (try not to kill them and let them with at least 1 fm) try and make peace or make them your protectorate (protectorate removes their agressivity so i normally prefer to make peace)

now it´s when things get interesting if you´re the agressive type go for ambrakia if not move north serdike and then naissos 4 forts on the river passes and then tylis and finally bizantion and 2 more forts on the passages from asia (time to save up for mines but always keep 1 strong army )

if you´re not at the epirotes throat yet (doubt it should be around 266bc so they´ve probably attacked you on pella or moved on thermon) go for them take ambrakia and use that city to the limit to recruit your best warriors and then north dalmatia as fast as possible and then segestica build 2 new forts in the passages to italy (if you´re lucky the epirotes have survived in italy make peace with them ) remember to build or retrain your navy you need to destroy the epirote navy so they can focus on armies

by now you´re probable on war with pontus over sinope use spies and diplomats to fight it for you ship up an army to pantakophion build 3 forts on the passages to the crimea and take the 2 city´s it helps you avoid a future endless stupid war with the hai and sauromatae (or post pone it since they ai normally procrastinates before they attack forts)

if sinope hasn´t rebelled back to you ... on your return trip land on sinope and take it from the pontus and try to make peace the war with the romans for magna graecia (if the epirotes have died) should be about to start (if they refuse you can always destroy them but that leaves you in danger of having a war with the seulecids sooner then what would be expected normally it´s over hallikarnasus)

by this time it should be around 255bc all your top mines are finishing their construction and you can afford around 5/10 navys (2 trieremes each) and 3 standing armies you are ready to start the fun blocking all harbours at will and invasions in the entire mediterranean and black sea basin

my error was not taking the crimea sooner and having destroyed pontus i found myself at war with the ptolomayois

to deal with the ptolomayois just land half a stack in alexandria (the importance of a strong navy) and siege it aslong as you´re threatning them in aygiptos proper they´ll divert resources from mikra asia just enough for you to take side and kilikia and then have fund with them on the river passages with rhodians and kretikoi shooting them down (and ofc also the bosphoran heavy archers wich is better for hand to hand combat so the beast unit you can wish fighting on walls)

fomalhaut - why bothering with the Scythai? Just let them be :-P
In fact there are so many woodlands and there you come at a disadvantage because of visibility.While you as a human struggle to spot your units' movements the AI knows in detail what he's doing.Nevertheless I sense you did find the enjoyment out of a massive defeat - it gives you the impression of realism.
I am looking to expand in Crimea and set some nice trade routes (just took Byzantium).In Balcans I wont am not going higher than Dunav.I will set alliances with local nations and let the peace be.Byzantin dogma :-P

moonburn - your strategy seems well planed, since Rhodes at start has a high population.But has a Single Point of Failure, that is the Navy :-P
In my game the Macedone Navy won our first encounter and chased me.Not to mention the occasional Eleutheroi fleets showing out of the blue.So if I board troops they will chase me 100% (RTW feat lol).I just want to ask you why leave the Macedons in game? What is the purpose? And Lesvos? This island provides a nice economic boost.

What I did was:
- Take Creta round 1
- Round 2 bring army from Creta, join with Sparta army and besiege and took Korinthos
- Then a series of battles (mostly defensive) around Athens started.I didnt have the population problem because outside Athens are some nice defensive spots where you can achive high kill ratios.So no retrain needs.
- Macedon some rounds later had issues with the Epirotes and couldnt send army so I quickly grabbed Chalkis.
- Then my next step was move the war near Demetrias again on the defensive and in the right time took it as well.
- Then rushed to Pella, etc

PS - about the AI population cheat I was thinking of spies acting as "plague-bombs".That could be something of use in this game. :-D

Naval supremacy is instrumental for success as the KH. You should build one or two war fleets à three to five units of strong ships (Triereis and upwards, preferrably Trieremiolai) and systematically hunt down pirates and enemy fleets. Naval superiority is easy to achieve if you know what you're doing.

True in principle, but I'd say it's more of a mid-game thing. Early on you can't afford a fleet -and- a half-decent army. So the alternative to having a fleet is island-hopping: making sure your armies never end the turn at sea except in a port. You'll lose the occasional cheap bireme, but that's acceptable.

Later on I do as you say and build a couple of decent war-fleets. The cheap lemboi remain in use as troop-transports.

Ksifos: The thing to remember with EB fleets is that you can't merge them -except- if other ships are already present in the port when the new fleet is being constructed. This is because the engine otherwise appoints the new fleet an admiral, immediately gives him a "summer" or "winter" trait and admiral's ships can't join in RTW. Combined fleets obviously cut down on micromanagement enormously and give a minor gameplay advantage in that they can all find shelter in the same port.

athanaric - you are right but that is impossible at the start where money goes down each round.If I recall well I got up to minus 12000 mnai before I started recovering.So early on, to build fleet was not an option.I now have a small fleet patrolling the Aegean and occasionally transporting troops to minor Asia where my main military front exists.Future plans involve invading of Cyprus as already been said, and I believe is a very important move strategically.
The difference with vanilla? Cyprus is WELL guarded ;-)

Randal - Thanks for the tip I didn't know that, yet it seems quite logical.The more I learn about EB the more I can sense how well designed it is by all aspects.

Small update - Epirotes are now silenced, having only two cities and for the time being I let them be.I have a feeling that if I eliminate them, the Senate would order a full scale invasion and right now that is something I can not afford.I eliminated Macedon and now besieging rebel Sardike.I plan to build my territory up to Dunav river then expand to the minor Asia and Crimea.I am allied to the Getai nation but I always have the fear of this people looking to plunder my rich cities :-P

For now the eastern front is full of action! While the Seleucid is not attacking maybe due to lack of resources or being distracted with something else, the Ptolemae has launched a FULL scale attack.I can not stop fighting this backstabbing scam :-P He besieges Ipsos each round, and I have to help lift the siege.I have a full stack on a hill near Ipsos blocking the way to the city.Inside the city my faction leader also with a full stack.

I had a major battle when a strategos of theirs passed by my army and besieged the town.On the other hand the smart AI had three medium stacks (around 1200~1300 each) attack from three directions simultaneously.Hopefully I wasnt encircled but still the odds were pretty even.
The result was a heroic victory for Klearchos Philasios and a bonus star as a result of this epic battle.Lasted over half an hour !!!

As I said in a previous post I had to adapt my tactics.As another poster said, cavalry is vital.It is the unit to win the battle.Now I always field a couple of Prodoromoi who with their nice stamina are ideal for killing the fleeing enemy and deploying them fast where it is needed.Also at least a unit of Xystophoroi who are the shock cavalry and give the decisive blow.Plus a couple of Hetairoi Aspidophoroi for disrupting the AI plans :-P

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.Keep 'em coming :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ksifos

athanaric - you are right but that is impossible at the start where money goes down each round.If I recall well I got up to minus 12000 mnai before I started recovering.So early on, to build fleet was not an option.I now have a small fleet patrolling the Aegean and occasionally transporting troops to minor Asia where my main military front exists.Future plans involve invading of Cyprus as already been said, and I believe is a very important move strategically.

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Of course, the war fleet only becomes important when you're about to seize Ionia or Kypros. The most important thing at the start is to get Korinthos and Kydonia ASAP and then build up the economy (ports!!!), while fending off the Makedonians.
And don't forget to tech up your factional barracks on Krete to level 4, so that you can train more Kretan Archers. Don't train too many though, because they're somewhat OP. Also, level 3 factional MIC on Rhodos willl produce Rhodian Slingers, which are great vs cavalry and heavy infantry.

Quote:

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The difference with vanilla? Cyprus is WELL guarded ;-)

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Yes but the Ptolies rarely reinforce it. Also, they cannot train elite units there, having a Type III government in place, so the most dangerous troops you'll encounter on the island are Thureophoroi. Be aware of Ptolemaioi fleets though. They love to recruit those floating pimpmobiles which have insane stats.

oh watch out, asia minor is quite a swamp when the Selecids are having tailwind, they throw armies at you mostly made of Phalangites of all types. be carefull when expanding into asia minor, early in game it can demmobilize you, watch out for Getic or Epirote agression(even when allied, you can never trust them! tho the Getai seem to be rather affable, in every KH campaign it took them ages to attack me even tho I had bordered them for quite a while) and do not forgot to ensure enough mobile army to enforce a poleis in destress(or have a good diplomat to cover up the mess ;) ).
In terms of navy I like to invest my money when availible(thus when you can afford building something in every settlement and have surplus money) in large low level fleets that may not win the day but at least don't get sunk by Pirates let alone AI navies, through sheer size can transport your strike forces fairly safe to Pontos, North africa or southern france. still Trieremiolai are my preffered weapon when fighting pirtates later on.
Serdike is a good target, generally going north is not a bad idea, as this is THE troop center for regional troops. and also holds large quantities of mines which can boost your economy quite a bit.

whats also fun at a later strage of game are viking tactics once you got control of the eastern mediterranean: get spies all over the medditerranean get a small fleet and an army with 5-10 units of which most usefull in sieges, and ransack all coastal cities of Ptolies and seleucids that lack a sizeable Garrison ;)
apart from the army paying for it's self you also setback the Diadochi arms industry, which reduces the number of agyraspidai or ptolemaic agemas. plus when destroying both ports that block the passage into the red sea you could mount a suicide mission into Persia(very silly but quite fun indeed)

As Makedonia, i wiped out Getai before they got too big to contain later on. Now i am very safe on every angle! It'll be decades before Suebi come my way. And the huge amount of mines from Thermon to Sigdinum, Segestica and Byzantion have so much money coming in that I feel awesome. Macedonians aren't the greatest traders it seems, like as Karthalo we were making 40,000 a year just through our vast trading empire, but we get by :)

I really do feel like Philip reforming the petty kingdom into a force capable of taking on the world.

Athanaric - I hope you are right about Cyprus.While is not a short term goal yet.I imagine it will be a "Viking raid" like CA Putt described, lol

CA putt- You are 100% right.Ptolemaios brings armies with phalanxes and maybe a couple of peltasts.No archers, horses, etc Just phalanx lol.While the phalanx has a terrifying view, it has a MAJOR disadvantage.It is very SLOW to manoever.My main army consists of hoplites (levy,classic) peltasts, Cretan Archers, Slingers, Aspidoforoi and their light counterpart, and a lot of cavalry (Prodromoi and Xystophoroi).

- I always advance in the flanks so my formation becomes like a "crescent moon".The main advantage is mobility and lethality of ranged units when attacking in the back of the phalanx.Their line formation is most usually disrupted and then I look for opportunities to encircle them and of course give the final charges with heavy cavalry.
- The AI is smart though! He now fields mostly Klerouchoi Phalangitai who have the cavalry bonus ;-)

This is going to be big.Your suggestion to go for a raid seems logical because otherwise I will fight in minor asia forever lol.And this costs a lot.
I still look for expanding my economy but still cant afford to upgrade mines (I am on 231BC) :-(
I am trying building on my population instead.

What I dont understand is some cities having high unrest (for example Hellikarnasos has 50%!!!).That is an EB feat but havent got it yet :-P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fomalhaut

And the huge amount of mines from Thermon to Sigdinum, Segestica and Byzantion have so much money coming in that I feel awesome. Macedonians aren't the greatest traders it seems, like as Karthalo we were making 40,000 a year just through our vast trading empire, but we get by :)

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That sounds maybe like a solution to my financial problems lol.But Getai is a force that needs careful planing.I will think of it a short term expendition. ;-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fomalhaut

I really do feel like Philip reforming the petty kingdom into a force capable of taking on the world.

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Macedones were always about greatness.So go for it :-P
Btw what are the Romans and Ptolemaioi doing in your game?

well i mean post Pyrrhus :-P

well by the time you can take on Getai, they may have spread too far. they only had 3 cities by 265, but with 2 full stacks. I sent my newly reformed professional army (i took Hellas with my levies and semi professionals) to siege their two main cities, knowing their stacks would attack and bring the inhabitants of the cities as well allowing me to shatter their army and take the city in one stroke. I defeated both armies but with some very crazy fighting, the wolves truly were fighting for their homeland! rewarding the bravery of the Getai i didn't sell anyone into slavery, their manpower is useful in my new armies :-)


The Ptolemaioi are struggling real bad against Seleukeia. They lost all posessions in Asia Minor and are desperately clinging to Jerusalem. The Romans have spread all the way to Emporion westward, but i currently have magna Graeca and Sicily and i intended to give it to Rome, but i'm not sure anymore as the greeks there seem to prefer my rule to anyone else. the reason I have all of sicily and the epirotes are completely dead is that the Epirotes of Magna Graec dared attack Syrakuse! I convinced Hero with some gold and my own reputation that being a friend of Macedona is better than being my enemy.

The Carthaginians of Lilibeo also had a full stack of elites which made the Syrakusans and Messanians now under my control very uncomfortable. I defeated it in a surprise night attack and after some hard fighting, my greatest losses yet!, i had victory. i took Lilibeo, killing their shopet Hamalcar and his son Hamalcar. With this huge set back i have the Carthaginian's paying me large tribute until all eternity. lest they want the Macedonian's in Carthage itself :-)

So far I have ended The KH, The Epirotes, and the Dacians. who's next? muahaha

this is a funny thread but i´m considering restarting my kh campaign over crimea :\

ksifos as for the ptolomaiois as i said take kilikia and fight river passes batles get 2 armies there since there´s at least 2 river passes and use kretikoi and rhodioi they´re killers and thorokitai on defensive move can last forever ^^

hehe yeah Phalanx armies are quite defeatable, sounds like you have a good strategy for the battle/s(there all the same). the real problem is that you have to fight every battle on your own and there are much more to come when you wander into asia minor and the AS does not like you(or the Ptolies when they hold it). this is why I call asia minor a swamp you get bogged down by diadochi phalangites all the time which can only stop when you at least take their core lands which lie several miles land inward(AS) or on a shore far away(I have not done this yet but maybe It'd be smart to conquer lower Egypt by boat and hold it In my campaigns The AS always are the big ones so it never seemed logical).
and be warned there is no quick victory in asia minor! destroying Antiochea(AS's most vulnerable Recruitment center for elite troops) and most mentionable Ptolemaic Cities does not reduce the number of troops they send against you! it only reduces the number of elites, which reduced your casualties and thus speeds up your process a bit but does not mean they wont attack you anymore!

fomalhaut - try minor asia and Ptolemaioi if you feel bold.I 'd really like to here some adventures of yours there :-P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moonburn

this is a funny thread but i´m considering restarting my kh campaign over crimea :\

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Unfortunately in minor Asia I am pinned down by the Ptolemaioi.So I would like some feedback from your Crimea campaing, because this is my next move to expand. :-)

I still dont have the resources to launch an expendition in Kilikia.I slowly build an army to take Cyprus first.Economy is nicely put in the game and forces your decisions most of the time, in contrast to vanilla where by now I should be RICH :-P

Ca Putt - you are right again.It is a SWAMP! Its round I fight around Ipsos, and FULL stacks are coming non stop, lol.And the funny thing? The AI adapts and now send more mixed armies, but mainly phalangites as his core troops.Still he adapts and that is GOOD!

I need expanding and only logical places are Crimea, Cyprus and Side (the last Seleucid town in Minor Asia !!!).
- Crimean cities besides the traditional hellenic bonds, should also boost my economy but would open a new whole set of adventures with the local Scythai people.I need scout the area first.
- Cuprus is a nice strategic point both economically and military.I can use it as a base to launch raids in the rear of Ptolemaioi
- Side must fall and eliminate any kind of threat against Hellikarnasos who occasionally an AS army besieges

*Getai is not an option right now, I need maintain good relations with them and for that purpose I have a diplomat as ambassador in their capital.

My campaign is at a halt, mainly developing my cities and fighting over Ipsos who managed to upgrade the eastern greek archontos mansion.AI is so smart knowing exactly the buildings you construct and at the last turn he send his new talented general and a bunch of Klerouchoi agema/ phalangitai a total of around 3500 men.It was a massacre.We LOST! It was an even odds battle.I had him attacked on the front while the Ipso's garrison led by our faction leader himself should strike from the behind.It was a major blow as we lost one of our most talented generals and victor against the Ptolemaioi.

The main lesson taught in that battle was that cavalry is not effective (to the point of being in a serious disadvantage) inside woods.Logical. ;-)
Second I need more elite ranged units like Rhodian slingers and Kretan Archers and also use them effectively - especially flaming arrows against enemy low morale or 'concerned' units.

On a civic note - I took Tylis and there was a barbarian government building which allowed me to raise a puppet governor who had some strange traits.He was a fine local governor but couldnt go outside the province for long.At first I was like "what's this" but then I tried understanding this feat and think is great.But here comes the question: what should happen if that same guy, destroys the barb government type and go for a Greek type II which is allowed there?

Still trying to understand why Hellikarnasos has so high unrest.

Never had the Sinope revolt or the Magna Grecia you all refering to.And I am quite long into the game era (230BC).

Puppet rulers cannot leave the province, just the terms of the job. The client ruler can only rule in puppet type IV governments, where they are allied with you but don't share the same government structure. if you change a Type IV to a type III, II or I then the client ruler cannot rule there. in type IV governments your own governers cannot rule there, considering they consider themselves only allied with you not under your rule.

Asia Minor isn't my cup of tea. Fighting Successors is just a tooooooooootal chore to me. Totally and completely boring to fight the never ending masses. It's stupid and the biggest flaw in this engine and this modification.

you just fight never ending elites until you destroy their elite center, then you just fight never ending regulars and levies because due to the AI a war can ONLY end if they are complete destroyed as a state. So if you go to war with someone it has to be with intentions to own ever piece of land they do, which i don't! when i go to war i want one territory, but the AI can suffer literally infinite crippling defeats but due to the unlimited money and men the AI receive (huge flaw in the mod) it doesn't matter. Your own cities can be absolutely devestated by retraining and funding to the point where you can't retrain anymore because the population is all gone and so too is your money, but due to infinite money and men of AI they can just send people over and over and over.

and the combat itself is just Lock phalanx, flank phalanx, charge phalanx until they break. its sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo BORING.

fomalhaut is right asia minor can be a major drag and thats the reason why i try to keep the makedonians alive and avoid destroying pontus when i can they can act as a counter balance to the ptolomaioi and the arche seleukeia

the crimean campaign is probably the easyest you´ll ever fight you embark an army land it on asia next to crimeia (take around 6 kretikoi or 6 rhodoi ) build a fort on that passage (you know the one beteween the black sea and the sea of azov where the volga ends) leave one kretikoi or one rhodoi on the fort )make sure it´s well stationed so that any army trying to enter the crimea will have to besiege it and then conquer it before moving on you can also leave another weaker depleted unit but then when 1 unit of spearman arrives and sieges it you can´t do much without reenforcements while with a kretikoi you can take it easily

then take pantakipoi it should have enough mic for you to set a nice garrison there with hoploi akontistai skytian archer and if you´re lucky enough the bosphoran heavy archer

then move fast to the crimean main passage and there should be a lake there just build 1 fort on each side of the lake and then take chernoesos

now to defend crimea you can go with having 1 navy (lemboi is/should be enough) and sending part of pantakipoi garrison by sea to the backs of anyone sieging your fort destroy it and return in time for lunch

when and if you can on the "twin forts" put up a decent garrison of 4-5 units and when someone besieges those forts you can send most of the garrison (always leave at least 1 unit) of the other fort against the back of those besieging it

always leave at least 1 unit because with sauromatae family members besieging it ... lets just say it might not be so easy to defeat the besiegers ....


but as i said crimean operations build 3 forts take the 2 city´s and be done with it those are greek city´s who normally have enough infrastructures for you to build garrisons and therefore are self sufeciente and easy to protect thanks to the forts even if you can´t break the siege you always have 3 turns to man up the garrisons (with bosphoran heavy´s wich are amazing i assure you best archers ever that you can have fighting on walls)

so 8 turns are normally enough (2 to arrive from bizantion to crimeia and build the asian fort) 3rd turn if you´ve got a proper general with enough movement points take the city (you should have siege it by turn 2 of the operation) turn 3 after taking the city embark the general and land it next to the lake on the crimean european passage build fort and move to the other side of the lake to build a new fort (you can move the navy to collec your general on the other side or if he´s strong and well 5rationed you can just move him) turn 4/5 you should be besieging chenoessos (remember to send in the rest of your army from pantakipion) i normally wait 3 turns (while besieging it ) so i can send a unit of akontistai and 1 unit of haploi to garrison chernoessos

so if you want in 5 turns (depending on the vigour of your general) you can wrap up the crimean campaign board the navy (remember to leave a lemboi or a pentastikoi in panthakion) and return to either hellas proper or land in sinope to relieve it from the pontiac dreadfull claws

if you work fast you can take on that campaign as early as 260bc (remember you need either enough kretikoi or enough rhodoi use peltastai to take the walls put the rhodoi or kretikoi on the walls once you´ve taken them and move your hoplitai into the city to draw them into shooting range of rhodoi or kretikoi ) i use a minimum of 6 kretikoi because i wanna leave 3 of them in the forts and then suplement them with skytian horse units who are fast and can relieve a siege on the forts (except for the asian fort where i rather use bosphorans and hoploi which are the garrison of panthikoi)

fomalhaut - well the option is there in case you feel boredom :-D
I had my faction leader getting the Spymaster trait so I spammed spies all over minor asia, the east coast and even to Alexandria.The Ptolemaioi have all these territories under their control - that is a lot of cities.Most have one two units max as a garison.I mean the Egyptian diadochos bringing all that much army isn't cheating at all - yet aggresive recruiting plus using mercs.And that is a good feature for the AI.

monnburn- I am on 223BC and now Crimea has guests :-P I managed taking the historical Chersonesos with an expendition army led by one of the Lakedaiomonios family members.I had a script event and the strategos took a Chersonesos trait.I also saw those archers you spoke right away being recruitable.20 defense!! lol.Plus the cheap scythai horse archers will be a BIG help in the ptolemaioi front.

Small update - Just pacified Side and established a Klerouchoi government.We are reaching our limits and may now think of interfering more with the locals even setting alliances.I deal with massive armies of the Ptolemaioi, and now he has good mixes too.Most usually their strong armies are like this:

Bodyguard--Strategos--Galatai Klerouchoi----Phalangitai (Mahimoi, MANY Klerouchoi, and some Agema)---Thorakitai--Galatai Klerouchoi

I had this army besieging Ipsos (around 3500 men in total) and hit them having my garison attack from behind.The $@%* reinforcements were DELAYED :-( I had to do tricks but it wasn't enough.IIRC the engine unless you start melee fighting it keeps the reinforcements out of the battle.It was a DISASTER.But an EPIC one lol.
Their phalanx slowly but systematically pushed us to the edge where no manoevres were possible.I tried spamming his right flank to kill his strategoi.Quite cleverly on the right time he withdrew him and I was getting massacred by the damned Galatai Barbarians :-P BTW these guys are very strong and hard to break.

Nevermind I had reinforcements on the way and next round I pushed them out.Still it was a blow to put me into thoughts.
I have a "Viking party" on board to Cyprus.I will counter the Ptolemaioi scam by raiding his capital.Maybe keep it :-P

I am low on money again.Too many generals!

PS - too many CTDs now.

herm i hope you haven´t abused on the client kings they are ... very expensive (use one or two i normally use one in tylis 1 in naissos and 1 in ankyra since they give the best suport troops like gaesetai )

also to figure it out who has what either do toggle_fow (once to check it and then do it again to remove it or else the passage of turns goes .... slowly) or send them a diplomat and on the deman region you can check how many and wich city a faction as

i started a new kh campaign (or am about to start one just trying out diferent 5 1st turn combinations <-- chess playin as it´s advantages) and discovered that you can take chalkis (and not just kydonia) on turn 1 just move the athikos a hoploi and the slingers into the city to besiege it and then use the slingers good to win the day

moonburn - Well only one puppet in Tylis - btw didnt know their cost issue so thanks for the tip :-)
I don't use console, I prefer the legit way of doing things (spies, diplomats, etc), hehe.
Nice to hear you started a KH campaign.Let's share our adventures and opinions.Nice move on Chalkis who also gives a nice economic boost.But Creta is a rich place too, still you can have it anytime.So maybe what you did is better on the short run.What settings are you playing?

My game took a whole different aspect!
While Pontus had Nikea and was being besieged by Ptolemai, all of a sudden Amasia defects to Pontus and grants him a full stack as garison.That made Pontic king more bold and accepted an alliance with me.

But in the meantime I had wreaked havoc in the Ptolemean Empire:
- After a while he besieged Nikea.I immediately brought an army from main Greece and besieged and took it as soon as Ptolemae entered the city.:-P
- My "Viking Party" had already beisieged Cyprus and finally conquered it.The egyptian capital was down.All population was enslaved and the council took the decision that we keep this city.
- Just when Klerouchoi government was establisehd in Cyprus the general in command left a small garrison and with the help of our dominant fleet disembarked and beisieged Sidon.It only had a general and two Klerouchoi Phalangitai inside.I didnt attack cause I knew I would lose on the wall fights.He brought a small army and attacked me both sides.He lost, both the battle and the city.The population was again enslaved and cultural buildings were demolished.
- After retraining my mercenaries on Sidon, I besieged Hierosolyma.Sorry Ptolemae was unprepared :-P I gifted Sidon to Pontus and next turn Hierosolyma had the fate of Sidon.At that time a full stack out of Alexandria was coming towards me and the nile cities started to get filled with army.AI is smart !
- In minor Asia I had consecutive MAJOR victories over Ptolemae.He was now weak.I quickly grabbed Anjyra and decided to enforce the greek culture on this barbaric place, hehe.

At this moment I am besieging Tarsos.Only one unit as garrison :-P And that should be our frontier at the east, for the time being.

Overall, this reminds me of vanilla Egypt.The only nation NEVER destroyed in numerous campaignhs I played.So what EB demonstrates is the same as vanilla just on a bigger scale - both time and manpower.But in the end he collapses.Just think of the mighty 30-years' war or worse the Hundrend Years' war.The war with Ptolemae lasted between 15 to 20 years.I mean this is historically realistic and it CAN happen. ;-)

Now I sit on a 2/3 conquered Minor Asia and plan for the future.I have a general who can build those GREAT buildings for ridiculous prices.I built a top barracks for 5400 (instead of 12k) so he gets over -50% in building costs.I have him going around cities and queing big buildings lol.

Overall KH is well designed, very challenging and interesting campaign.

the only settings that i can play in are huge it´s the one that feels more real and since i get part of my kicks from planing ahead including population wise that helps me alot

Sorry I meant difficulty settings :-)

Huge is obvious or else the game feels unrealistic.Provided of course your computer can handle it.

Just a small update - The Pontus now took Sidone and Mazaka so now he totals three cities.Not bad for a dying nation.We are still allied and so my east border is protected.I think having a diplomat at their capital and offering a small gift works - at least Getai havent attacked since round 1.

I had 4~5 years of peace and prosperity.Cash flows $$$ but well AI doesnt like peaceful eras so here comes the Seleucid out of nowhere claiming Minor Asia.I have fortified the bridge in Tarsus but he attacked three time with cataphracts and elite phalangitai! I only managed two times.The third I fled :-P
Then he attacks Pontus.BUT Pontic armies are very experienced and well rounded (kudos to Scythe chariots) so he fails miserably there too :-D

Had a map negotiation with Romans.They are stuck at the peninsula, while carthagenian has taken all west africa, south spain and south France.He also holds Sicily.I think this is a fine opportunity to invade the "Italian Peninsula" claim Epirus bases there - they were Spartan colonies after all :-P- and then either fighting the Romans or restoring Magna Grecia.The resources are there the manpower and tech also, so I think any kind of plan is viable.

I wouldn't like to hurt the Getai (although their mines are tempting), since they have been loyal allies and friends.Plus they are at war with Sauromatai and maybe I should grab the opportunity and attack Pantikapaion that is under Sauromatai authority - it is our right by legacy after all :-D

What is impressing, is the way the AI plans its strategy towards other AI controlled nations.In vanilla in that point it should be me vs ALL, lol

Anyway I am open to ideas, impressions or details of your KH campaigns.If not having one, its never late to start one.I assure it's worth it, every minute of gameplay. :-))

good to hear your progress :)

on pontos:
do not trust them, as soon as they take a hellenic poleis you will declare war on them, but until then they really are a viable shield against the AS.

on Getai,
they are good allies imho and as long as you claimed 1-4 tracian/scordici territories before they did conquering them is merely a bonus that can be postponed until they attack you or you get megalomaniac. the terrain favors forts and makes it easy to lock of the main attack route(or keeps them from wandering into your territory while allied).

on the krim:
take it, Sauromatae are lousy siegers and when one settlement builds up the regional mic and the other one the factional MIC you've got access to alot of fun troops(usefull when attacking pontos ;) apart fromt hat there is a scripted event that helps you, strange you had so few scripted events until now.

on my (first)campaign:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

as it was my first EB (actually RTW at all) campaign I played on M/M and got sucked in by the AS, in other words: instead of conquering my VCs in spain and egypt I whiped out the AS in a long and tedious campaign and I took Gaul at some point(tho that was comparatively easy. apart from some wierd FMs I've got through lacking roleplaying:
after I took Italy, I sent two FMs with a medium sized Army into the Alps to take those regions from the migrated romans in the false belief that those "newly conquered retreat settlements" would be an easy prey - Wrong, I got suprised by four roman fullstacks which cost me my experienced super FM and large parts of my army - with only 200 hoplites and some 1-20 men units, my junior FM(who sucked) escaped and found romani units blocking the paths out of the alps. surrounded and badly outnumbered he did the only thing he could do and attacked the weakest romani unit(still about 800 men led by a captain) autoresolved

and won
which gave him real good traits and several stars :D after that he bought some Mercenaries, and went berserk on roman alps. a really crappy FM turned into a brutally efficent Battlemaster with all traits and ancillaries that increased loot, decreased mercenary cost and several other more or less "good" traits ;).
in one of the conquered settlements installed a lvl 4 gov ( I needed reinforcements) which gave me a celtic lesser king - who accompanied this FM for the rest of his campaign which had the downfall of transalpine Rome and the aedui as a result(and two 9XP hoplites)
on the other side of the earth a FM 2 spartiatai, 2 Kretikoi and 1 Thrakioi Prodromoi( i had cash) circumnavigated Arabia and took the Garrison of Persepolis totally by supprise especially as at the same time I bribed Babylon, which threw the AS in total chaos :D

my new kh campaign ended on 267 i was removing the epirotes when i did toggle_fow and discovered that the epirotes had lost tarentum since the makedonians had already died (i mean 3 fm´s in pella and they died :\) so my entire plan was crushed i wanna keep the maks in lesbos and the epirotes in magna graecia so without it there´s no reason to continue (luckly i had saved up the initial 1st turn where i get a spy to open the kydonian gates)

also i had almost forgot you can collect over 10.000 mnai from the seulekids for a peace agreament wich should help your kh campaign get on it´s feet fast enough

CA Putt - hehe this is a nice story.I really enjoy when random events like that "battle out of desperation" you won, turn the game plot dramatically.That is called realism! On the other hand you maybe right attacking Sauromatai and taking moonburn's advice blocking passage into crimea with the two forts.That would serve both taking a town of greek origin and tradition but also helping our fellow Getai nation in their war against them.Plus Sauromatai holds the whole Scythia region which is BIG! So they need slow down a bit after all :-P

moonburn- Money isn't an issue anymore.I have this frugal FM going all over the nation queing buildings CHEAP! I am finishing all mines' upgrades so mnai is flowing.
I really try to understand your obsession with the Macedons and their "Lesvo's exile" but I fail :-P Still it is good to hear you are on your KH adventure.Waiting some news of your progress.

PS - A really strange event happened.Emporium in northern east coast of Iberia defected to our nation! How on earth? Maybe another greek colony of the past? Still Public order is 0% so I am not holding any serious hopes besides that will possibly have me in war with Carthagena, lol.

haha, yeah emporion probably is one of the more annoying cases of Hellenic poleis rebelling to you^^ I had the priceless advantage of owning (and beeing able to hold) Massilia at the time they defected to me. brought me alot of trouble, as the Spaniards are known for guerillia warfare and (in EB) for spamming. but at least it's a free (compatible)barrack at the end of the world.
when you based your army on hoplitai this can prove very usefull, as you don'T have to ship them all the way back to Greek.

and when defeated on see the Carthagians make nice little targets for coastal raids ;)
go for the Krim! :)

Ca Putt - as I was recruiting in Chersonisos to attack the Sauromatai, a bunch of events happened.

- I get a game message that Senatus was DESTROYED! I was like !!?? I mean it's the first time I see the Romans dead.Nice :-)
- I scouted the area as I already was planing a military expendition to Taras in South Italy (an Epirote region atm).It all was a carthage property.I brought my army in Taras and after a brief fight outside the town, I besieged it and finally took it.Then after I do the proper pacification and order the Type I government, two Carthagenian full stacks invade and one besieges Taras.This is going to be fun, as I can safely say the two out of the three mightiest military forces (3rd I believe is Seleucids) in the world are going to confront each other.
- All of sudden Pontic scam-wannabe (:-P) heads towards Side with a half-stack and cancels our alliance.Had to bring an army from Tarsus in front of his to make him retreat back in his territory.
-Next round a full stack made of Hellenic Acontistai, led by a carthage general, disembarks and besieges Dalmation who I had recently acquired and am in the process to install the new government.He suffered a crushing defeat though and his general barely made it alive ;-)

So the west front is on FIRE.I try to keep a financial balance and continue advancing my economy, with building.I need to keep the peace with Pontus.To do that I need some armies in minor asia :-/
I dont know if it wise now to provoke the Sauromatai.Maybe a small scale war with them is an option.But I would suffer in diplomatic relations, trade rights and maybe I risk a BIG counter-attack from them.Well Getai still fight them but you never know with these savage people :-P

Emporion just rebelled (Eleutheroi) and my garrsion was annihilated by the Lusotans.Hopefully I entered a peace treaty right away.

Btw are you on any campaign atm?

ksifos if you wish to avoid fighting the endless arche seulekids spam stacks and their ptolemaions cousins your best hope is that there´s alot of factions in mikra asia with whom you can ally with and stomp them now and then

hallikarnasus will eventually rebel to you so one of my strategies is let the makedonians live they take pergamon and from there they will always act as a buffer against the seulekids (if you can get them as protectorate is even better since then you can send relief armies when you want and when you don´t wanna fight them just send mnai to the maks and they fight for you )

another possible strategy is conquering ankyra and then let it rebel to the arverni or aedui leaving ptolomaions seleukids a keltik faction pontus and if you´re lucky hay and the makedonians fighting it off in mikra asia as you´re left unharmed to fight off the romans carthies sauromatae (defensive batles against the sauromatae ofc) and the eventual betraial of the getai once they take the scordiscii lands and decide that dalmatia and illiryan should belong to them wich forces you to take them on

when the getai eventually betray you (last time it was in 167bc) you should imediatly take their lands and hope they haven´t went north and either destroy them or let them as a protectorate in mikra sckytia or skytia (i like taking kallatis so when i can i let them have olbia aslong as they surrender if not i destroy them)

unlike the makedonians and epirotes leaving the getai allive serves no purpose in eb2 it might since you´ll have the boii to contend with but thats something i will have to analyse proper

moonburn - ok got it.But again I think you are exagerating concerning the diadohoi factions.I mean it's just two big empires, that if you play aggressively (as most humans do) will try to block you.That is how the AI is programmed.Yet it is manageable.As you said alliances is one option, raiding deep in his mainland another and so on.I know it's hard and tiring maybe boredom to some, but if you like fighting it's awesome :-)
Plus minor asia is a VERY rich area, full of port-towns, mines, etc and a strategic point too.Still I respect that someone may have another strategy.In my eyes going west could yield more problems as expanding, could provoke many nations at the same time.

I am around 210BC and Getai are fighting over the steppes of Scythia against the Sauromatai.I guess I won't bother them :-P
Still I always have one army near my borders, no matter how good friends the neighbours are.For example the Pontus is showing clear signs of becoming a traitor scam.Still I am not pushing Pontus, only build strong armies to make him consider going the opposite way ;-)

I am now on my expendition to South Italy.Are Carthage units a bit overpowered or is it just me?

must be just you they bleed and die like all the rest you might just have to adjust a bit if they bring armoured you use rhodoi ig they bring less armoured kretai will do

remove them from italy/sicily and they´ll pay you nicely for peace (or they should)

Carthage units are pretty well balanced, Liby-Phoenician Hoplites are on par with anything in the Hellenistic world. Libyan Spearmen are their own Theurophoroi and do their job very well! i love using them in Kart campaigns. though i prefer the greek spearmen due to the variety of skins available.

Carthage has access to the skirmishers of Numidia, now those are annoying! not to mention their super skilled bowmen. Their Elite Africans are definitely super powerful, will whoop cavalry and any armored unit. They aren't overpowered though, it's what i expect from them.

Better beat them where you want them gone before their reforms though, their new spearmen, assault infantry, elite swordmen, etc. will give you a lot of hassle. I laughed through the Hellens i fought after the carthaginian reforms.


Never used the Sacred Band in any sense, they were cool to have on the right wing just for symbolic reasons, but they are one of the ugliest units in the game IMO. They seem reminiscent of vanilla units compared to the high detail of every other unit in the game. and their Iphrakates style phalanx is really ugly and ineffective in EB, its why i don't use Iphrikitous Hoplites or Dacian Phalanx, on contact they immediately turn to secondary weapons

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Originally Posted by moonburn

must be just you they bleed and die like all the rest you might just have to adjust a bit if they bring armoured you use rhodoi ig they bring less armoured kretai will do

remove them from italy/sicily and they´ll pay you nicely for peace (or they should)

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Probably it's the fact I deal with them for the first time.And since I face their Italian units who have defeated Senatus, (thus are full experienced) they are VERY STRONG ;-)
That's the goal, throw them back where they belong, hehe.I 'll keep you posted.

fomalhaut - I am facing late era armies (I am around 210BC) so Carthage throws the best it can produce.But their stats seem a bit high, that's why I asked about overpowering their units.AFAIK Carthage was never about military tech rather than tactical power, alliances/ vassalages with locals and numbers.But maybe I am wrong since haven't studied them in detail.Can't agree more with you about the Sacred Band.Their design isn't nice.

What you said about their secondary weapon is puzzling me as of lately.For example I use a lot Thorakitai Hoplitai who have the option (controllable by the player) to switch to their makhaira.Now this mode in close fight should be quite lethal, at least for attacks aiming at the back of enemy units - but aint.I am just trying to figure our its use.But maybe again it's not deployed inside the game engine the way it should be.

I am discussing short spear pike phalanx's in the style of Iphrikates reforms. They rarely work because they always switch to their secondary rather than staying in formation.

And well, yes historically Carthage was more about what you stated than military superiority par se, BUT! these reforms represent Carthage after learning much from Rome. So in your history, Carthage learned greatly from the SPQR it conquered and now probably has a semi professional military.

remember, only the general outline is historically accurate. everything else is up to you :-)

atm I've got a KH campaign with a lot of roleplay ongoing but I rarely find time to play and for some reason EB is experiencing uttery regular CTDs lately :(

those high stats are probably because of the experience, but the Poeni have some nasty tricks up thier sleeves. the elite pikemen can get as annoying as AS Agyraspidai, and the other troops generelly are of good quality. personally I had some problems with elite liby-phonician Infantry(the guys with axes) as they really causes some casualties amung my epilektoi and Spartiatai :(
tho I never faced the iberian attack infantry and only small contingents of elite african infantry. after I destroyed Carthage(oh arrent we all the same) and most of their coastal centers, they started spamming Garamantian Infantry like hell.

on Carthagian Military:
well they are the rich kid on the block - not the strongest but they can pay guys to fight for them and when it comes to a firefight, they have the most expensive gun...

fomalhaut - sorry I misunderstood.Still I am puzzled why are hoplitai on sword so inefficient? Any possible thoughts?

Ca Putt - I had this funny battle where two Carthage armies (around 6000 in total) besieged fresh conquered Rhegion (next to Sicily).I had three cavalry units inside and a full stack outside, next to the city so it was me around 20' doing circles with the Prodromoi on the center square and about 2000 enemies chasing me(their VERY GOOD STAMINA proved vital) while my reinforcements initially being delayed, finally appeared on map, entered the city and after a fierce battle prevailed :-P Anyway I managed a Heroic victory but...after loading campaign map, CTD :-(( So now where to find the courage to do this again? :-P

Before I also had many CTDs but troubleshooting showed me I needed to patch the game with the units missing.Now less CTDs most after battles :-/

arrrrrghh, now those are the most annoying! personally I often auto_win those - tho often enough I refight them as autowin often has much more causualties and almost never kills the enemy FM. but what was his army composition? full of elites? levy only or regular army? did the carthagians sent elephants against you already - In my campaign carthagians only had one unit of elephants left when I came which WAS the garrison of the westernmost settlement on sicily and I autoresolved it because I was sick of siege battles for a while^^
Yeah prodromoi are very good medium cavalry, can run around for houres, also usefull for charging!

the thing i remember best about battleing carthage was that Kyrene got attacked all the time by huge stacks(from both sides) which resulted in me garrisoning a fullstack + a avant garde made out of cavalry in/in front of it. It was a good idea to destroy the recruitment centers as that took out the feenemkin which really are dangerous when on walls. oh and the siege engines

I actually had it quitte stable a year ago, gotto look into that in more detail.

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Originally Posted by Ksifos

fomalhaut - I am facing late era armies (I am around 210BC) so Carthage throws the best it can produce.But their stats seem a bit high, that's why I asked about overpowering their units.AFAIK Carthage was never about military tech rather than tactical power, alliances/ vassalages with locals and numbers.But maybe I am wrong since haven't studied them in detail.Can't agree more with you about the Sacred Band.Their design isn't nice.

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In the game, Carthage AI, like any other factions, spams elites. Especially those pikemen which make it steamroll Rome. Extremely annoying.

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What you said about their secondary weapon is puzzling me as of lately.For example I use a lot Thorakitai Hoplitai who have the option (controllable by the player) to switch to their makhaira.Now this mode in close fight should be quite lethal, at least for attacks aiming at the back of enemy units - but aint.I am just trying to figure our its use.But maybe again it's not deployed inside the game engine the way it should be.

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The Kopis/Falcata/Makhaira weapon has inferior lethality in EB, which is somewhat balanced by an AP trait. This means that Thorakitai Hoplitai should only really switch to their swords when facing heavy infantry such as Classical Hoplites or elite units. Sometimes they can be advantageous versus heavy cavalry (especially cataphracts) too, but the spear has a higher lethality and a decidedly higher attack vs cavalry.
The lethality scale of swords in EB is:
- "crap sword" (short sword of cheap units, sometimes even heavier units such as certain swordsmen around the Caucasus) 0.1 - high attack
- Kopis/Falcata/Makhaira 0.11 - always AP, high attack
- "quality short sword" (e.g. Gladius, Xiphos) 0.13 - high attack
- "long sword" (usually wielded by elites or "Barbarian" swordsmen) 0.225 - medium to high attack value
- common falx 0.26 - always AP
- heavy, two-handed sword or Rhomphaia 0.385 - always AP

Peltastai and Iphikratous Hoplitai have a 0.13 lethality sword. Same for Indohellenic Hoplites.

@Ksifos its not that the hoplite swords are ineffective, but i don't want swordsmen, i want spearmen presenting a cohesive formation of spears. imagine if Macedonian Phalanx's just switched to swords instead of keeping their sarissae out! or if Hoplite Phalanx's always switched to swords like the Hypaspitai do. Use Iphrikatai Hoplitai which i know the KH can train and watch them, even in guard mode, turn into an unorganized mass.



MAN! fighting elephants is soooo fun. Carthage sent two units of them, i had my Peltasts hidden in the grass with auto fire off, they were hidden behind my line of Phalanx and Egyptian Swordsmen. As soon as the Elephants got to the point where even if they ran away they would still get shot, my peltasts appeared from the grass and absolutely destroyed both units! what was left rampaged through the Carthaginian lines while i laughed.

These were elite level (2 silver chevrons) peltasts though, they were auxilaries in Legio I which had experienced a lot of battles. i transferred them to another army since its nice to have experienced units help with a fresh army of regionals (Machimoi and Ethopians)

Ca Putt - Well consider me a masochist, but vital battles I am willing to replay and this one is such, hehe.The Carthage bring those poeni elite spearmen (many), elite heavy cavalry, elite pikemen and sacred band (few).And these guys are all veterans, meaning couple of bronze or silver chevrons.They die HARD! I only found one elephant unit as a garrison and ...take notice: I attacked with 1200 men vs 2(!) elephants and lost 216 men, lol (autoresolved).

Athanaric - The Hoplitai when attacked the enemy mainly used their push from behind tactic.Meaning their 'weight' as a unit was pushing the enemy line backwards.The front line of the phalanx was using mostly the sword because they were "in touch" with the enemy.Pushing with the Hoplon (shield) and stubbing with the Xiphos /Kopis (Spartans).I guess you already know these but it's actually unrealistic that Hoplites are so inefficient with the sword.I know the engine has limits still a better value in attack (0,11 is like archer's dagger) maybe would be fairer.I am not complaining just my opinion ;-)

Fomalhaut - Macedonian phalanx was a lot different than the Hoplitai phalanx.The first one was looking to keep the distance, while the latter wanted to come in touch with the enemy.So in the macedonian case yes the sword and the shield were secondary.But in the hoplitai case, both the hoplon and the xiphos were important items in their tactics.Don't get me wrong I do not intend to get into historical arguments with you.It's just I feel something is missing :-)
Didn't confront Elephants in the open yet and to be honest I had my doubts of how easy or hard would be to deal with them.Plain peltasts you say? That is good.Really good! :-)

Anyone of you in KH campaign or having a save with a big progress.I would like to have a clue where my limits should be, if any, haha.

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Originally Posted by Ksifos

Athanaric - The Hoplitai when attacked the enemy mainly used their push from behind tactic.Meaning their 'weight' as a unit was pushing the enemy line backwards.The front line of the phalanx was using mostly the sword because they were "in touch" with the enemy.Pushing with the Hoplon (shield) and stubbing with the Xiphos /Kopis (Spartans).I guess you already know these but it's actually unrealistic that Hoplites are so inefficient with the sword.

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Hoplon actually means weapon, not shield. That said, their spear is their more characteristic and more important weapon, so the team decided to just leave the sword out except for some hoplite units who were more likely to use their swords.

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I know the engine has limits still a better value in attack (0,11 is like archer's dagger) maybe would be fairer.I am not complaining just my opinion ;-)

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A dagger actually has 0.04, which is far worse. Nonetheless these curved swords are underpowered and one should probably increase their lethality by a few points to 0.12 (like Thracian sabres) or even higher. The thing is, this weapon is really common in EB and you would be spending a lot of time changing the stats of hundreds of units in your EDU.

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Didn't confront Elephants in the open yet and to be honest I had my doubts of how easy or hard would be to deal with them.Plain peltasts you say? That is good.Really good! :-)

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Javelineers of any kind is what really kills elephants in EB. Mounted skirmishers, like Dahae or Cantabrian skrimishers, are especially effective.
Don't bother with archers, unless there is a chance they can make them run amok with fire. Arrows won't kill elephants. Siege engines OTOH, like Scorpions, can one-shot elephants even at a long distance, but they aren't cost-efficient (costing even more than elephants...).

i am not discussing Hoplite Phalanx, but Iphrikates Hoplites which were mobile Macedonian Phalanx. they used a longer spear than Hoplites, but shorter than Macedonian.

well 'peltasts' are anything but regular! they are the best skirmishers save Thracian Peltasts

but even akontistai can whoop elephants

Athanaric - Thanks for clarifying.

I don't know why, I mean Carthage is a well established nation (so its economy I guess) but no elephants so far.I am about to take Capua and besiege Syracuse.The expendition to Italy was easier than thought.Still a CTD after a battle (again :-/) brought me here writing to you.

Also I am in contact with the Lusotans.They have conquered Northern Italy and share borders with Carthage on the south and Epirus on the east, lol.A war with them would be interesting.
I also have Pontus tresspasing.He has a pathetic army with 4 units going all over minor asia.And since I am chasing him with half stack, he brought a ship and disembarked on Rhodes.But didn't besiege the town.I am worried that if I go on war with Pontus I will provoke AS.

The Getai seems quite but since I stopped gifting money, I see more armies passing near our borders.

fomalhaut - I don't use them at all.Don't know why but is the only KH unit I didn't find of any usefulness.But I may get some to see of the effect you are describing.

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The Getai seems quite but since I stopped gifting money, I see more armies passing near our borders.

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Isn´t it a natural behaviour of most humans? ^^

About CTDs: Well, i play really slow in turms of my turns taking forever ( just can´t let it go and want to shape my faction well :S ), but whenever you expect a major/decisive battle where you almost can predict a high probability of a CTD ( aka: reinforcements of any kind, certain terrain like Neil Delta, Bosporus Crossing, ie, agents staying to close to the army/city etc. ) you should save and reload; especially after a couple of hours playing. Mostly i notice a little lag after certain actions, while normaly the campaign map feels smooth, the units responding bit too slow etc. i know a crash is going to occure quite soon. I´ve changed couple of things suggested by people on the forum to stabilize my games, and one of the things was the switch the sound from "miles2d" to "3d sound support" ( sp?) - this has, almost, neutralized crashs after taking a settlement.

vollorix - seems you have mastered the CTD subject, lol.I dont have the patience to look in detail the PC behaviour and reload as you probably quite cleverly suggest.The best I can do is press a Ctrl+S :-P
Well RTW is not compatible with Windows 7x64 at least officially.On the other hand Alexander expansion that IS officially compatible still crashes.So? I just settle with it :-)

I am eagerly anticipating EB2, which has a VERY stable engine.Still the gameplay in my eyes was never up to that of RTW.Call me retro but... :-)

Back to my campaign, updating.I was naive to think a BIG empire like Carthage, would easily let me execute my plots.They bring full stacks out of nowhere each round.Capua grassland has become a pool of blood.They loose, I loose too.EPIC battles.
Poeni army is light and very mobile.At first I used mass heavy infantry and got PWNED.Then I adapted.More cavalry, light infantry and ranged units and there we have a nice match-up.A local unit that impressed me a LOT is Brutii infantry.These guys are rock solid, only lack in speed.

In minor Asia, Pontus finally declared war on me then he hides behind his border, lol.I dont want to harash him but if he doesnt agree to peace I may have to.He already let AS and Ptolemaioi inside his territory while he's on war with them.

On the north things are ...quite.I would say DANGEROUSLY quite.Getai has two full stacks, one in Buridava (capital) and the other in Kallatis.I keep wondering why. :-D
Sauromatai in Crimea don't bother.YET I would say.But peace with those savage barbarians is a good thing now.I am in no position to provoke their wrath.

Guys anyone with an ongoing or recent KH campaign please share strategies or approaches.I enjoy reading ;-)

we just posted this in the 'buGGYqw3q555' thread that waiting after battle a minute or so, and saving before every battle, but on the 4rd one exiting and reloading will cut a lot of CTD's. i learned this ad hoc, but seeing it confirmed by other members makes it more credible

I am stuck in the "Peninsula" and probably I am losing Capua who fended off a siege but immediately got besieged again by TWO carthagenian stacks.Carthage while lost all sicily and half of Italy, is decided to strike back HARD.As we speak three full stacks are coming from the north and the odds atm are even!
*I am putting IV governments in Italy but cant build troops.At least the first two levels, Local Conscription centers don't.Is that normal?

On the east Pontus in a brave but lethal fight with both us and Seleucids.Seleucids of course is distracted by our Tarsos captivity and sends, bunches of elite armies (usually some cataphracts and plenty of argyraspides).Still the bridge has proved valuable defense point.Seleucid is also at war with the Ptolemaioi and starts capturing his cities.Antiocheia already changed hands.

On the north all is quite.Started gifting Getai again, and he took his armies from the cities and gone north, probably to fight Sauromatai.That was relieving at least.