Kings of the Nile - Sign Up thread

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Hermon Alexandreianos (FM)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/.../hermon269.jpg

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Original post:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It's been a while since the last game I hosted here. I have good memories from WotB and while I was working with the EB MP campaign idea more and more I wanted to host another EB PBM.

So, I am putting together Rules for this new game at the moment.

More about the game:
Faction: Ptolemaioi
RTW with the 1.5 patch
Europa Barbarorum v1.2 + FD
Hard Campaign, Medium Battles
Large Unit Size
Show CPU Moves Off
Battle Timer Off
Manage All Settlements

1) Patronage system

In previous games several RBG's were recruited when a new Player wanted to join.
This time new Players must find a Patron, Player who is already in game, who will pay the recruitment cost of RBG.
This makes the new player a Client until he pays back the recruitment cost of his bodyguards.
This system benefits both the Client and the Patron. Client receives the protection from his Patron while the latter receives Influence bonus during Council Sessions.

Yes, I know this is not exactly historical. However, this should encourage communication between players.

2) Personal Finances

This gives Players the chance to recruit Private Units, meddle with the polls, support AI factions, start a civil war etc.
Currently, there are 2 ways to receive income: Estates and Merchant ships.
Estates are represented on campaign map with a fort and 1 unit. If that fort is lost then the owner of that Estate will his income. They are limited to the Homeland provinces only.
Merchant ships offer easier way to become rich. The income comes from trade routes.

3) Private Units

Players can recruit Private Units with their Personal funds. What they can do with these units is up to them. Fight against Rebels, try to establish his own kingdom, claim the throne etc.

4) Civil Wars

There are 3 types of civil wars:
1) Strategos claims the throne. If he succeeds then previous ruler will be killed off and he becomes the new Basileus.
2) Strategos establish his own kingdom. If he wins a battle against the Basileus he will be considered Allied Ruler and he will become independent.
3) Strategos attacks another Strategos. This is more like a rioting. The winner have the chance to claim what ever belonged to the defeated Strategos. However, the Council and the Basileus may not like these small wars.

5) More offices

There are 3 lower offices: Chief of Army, Chief of Navy and Royal Treasurer.
Players can be elected into thos offices but if no one is elected then the Chancellor will automatically receive their powers.
Beside the lower offices and the Chancellor there is also the office of Nomarch. Player can be elected to become a Nomarch who then can govern provinces in his Nomarchy. Player can stay in that office as long as he is not impeached. So, it could be a 20 year long job or it could become a 1 year long job.

Anyone interested?

I'm liking these ideas, particularly the patronage system which seems like a good way to encourage roleplaying. Count me in.

Hopefully Patrons are then interested keeping their Clients active or otherwise they loose the Influence bonus.

The main problem though is that out of 7 starting Ptolemaioi avatars 3 will die in a year or two after the game starts. I was thinking that perhaps I will play the game until they are all dead and start the first Council session then. This situation could be roleplayed that they were officials and since they died another ones needs to be elected.

Also, what name should this game have? I got two names: "Rise of the Eagles" and "Return of the Pharaohs"

I apologize for making a triple post but here are most of the Rules:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. General(OOC)

1.1 Game Settings:

RTW with the 1.5 patch
Europa Barbarorum v1.2
Hard Campaign, Medium Battles
Large Unit Size
Show CPU Moves Off
Battle Timer Off
Manage All Settlements

1.2 Avatar

Each player will role-play a Strategos of the Ptolemaic kingdom. On joining the game,
each player will choose an avatar to represent this Strategos. Avatars can be 'family members(FM)' or recruitable generals(RGB).
Players are reminded that due to limitations imposed by RTW, only avatars on the family tree will be able to marry,
have children, and have a chance of becoming Kleronomos Basileion and Basileus. Recruitable generals can be spawned at any time,
but family member creation is beyond our control.
Players may not use Agents as avatars, since Agents cannot fight battles and have a different set of stats from FM's and RGB's.
If a "Man of the Hour" adoption is offered to an avatar, the choice of whether to accept it is entirely up to the avatar who is the adopter.
No "Man Of Great Potential" offers at the start of the turn will be accepted.

1.3 Battles

A player whose avatar leads an army that is involved in a battle will be expected to fight that battle.
This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame.
Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle save game being uploaded.
If the deadline expires, the battle is auto-resolved.
If a player cannot fight a battle that is assigned to them, the battle may also be fought by any player whose avatar will also be present in the battle.
Under no circumstances will a battle be fought by a player whose avatar is not present in the battle.
If there is no player available to fight a battle, it must be auto-resolved.
If there are no allocated avatars involved in the battle at all, it must be auto-resolved.

1.4 Game Management

At the start of each turn, the Chancellor will post a seasonal report on the events of the last turn, including a save game file for the new turn.
After the seasonal report is posted, players will have 24 hours to download the save, and make their personal moves.
Players can move their avatars, move any army (Royal or otherwise) their avatar commands and fight any battles against the AI that they are capable of fighting with their avatar’s army.
The Basileus may move any avatar or army that has not been moved in this way as he best sees fit, including moves that result in battles, except that he cannot move a player’s avatar, units on the Nomarchs territory or units under player's control in any manner that player has expressly prohibited.
The Chancellor may extend the time limit beyond 24 hours at his discretion, but all players are encouraged to act as swiftly as possible to keep the game moving.
Players may not move avatars or armies into the territory of a neutral or allied faction without the permission of the Basileus.
Nor may they attack the settlements or armies of neutral or allied factions without a declaration of war from the Basileus, a Chancellor or an Edict.
In case player do not vote in 2 consecutive Council Session Ibn-Khaldun can kill that avatar off(including family members).

1.5 Events

Whenever he desire, but no more often than once every 10 turns, Ibn-Khaldun, or anyone he choose may create an in-game Event.
Events are not limited in scope, subject matter, or method of implementation.
All game rules, can be violated to implement an Event.
The players can prevent the implementation of any single Event through a simple majority of unweighted votes.

1.6 Game Master

Ibn-Khaldun will serve as Game Master and is responsible for management of the game and enforcement of the Game Rules.
Ibn-Khaldun can delegate any of his powers to another person whenever he chooses.

1.6 Teleportation

The “move_character” console command can and will be used when needed for character movement. When a character has to go to a specific city as soon as possible but movement points do not suffice, he will be teleported by Ibn-Khaldun or anyone else he chose. Avatar must be in a settlement in order to use this option. Teleported avatar can not move during the turn anymore and one turn after teleportation. Armies and fleets can not be moved this way.

2. Offices and Ranks(IC)

2.1 Rank Gain and Loss

All Players enter the game at the rank of Strategos.
Strategos will be promoted to a higher rank as soon as they meet the requirements for that rank.
If, at any point, a Strategos ceases to meet the requirements of their existing rank, they will be demoted to the highest rank whose requirements they meet.

2.2 Offices

All players can run for various offices during the Council session.
Some offices have certain requirements that needs to be fulfilled before Player can run for that office.

2.2 Gaining and Losing Provinces

All conquered settlements belong to the Basileus.
The Nomarchies can be given to any player during the normal Council Session by the Basileus or by the Council with 2/3 of the votes.
Basileus and the Council can take away the Nomarchy from the Player only if 2/3 of the 'Royal Council' agrees with it.

2.3 Retinue

At any time, a Player may give any retinue item/member they possess to another Player or remove it from their avatar without giving it to anyone else.
Since it's impossible in RTW to remove retinue items/members using console commands then a RBG known as "Slave trader" will be recruited.
All retinue items/members that the Players want to remove will then be transferred to the Slave trader who will be killed off once there's no room for retinue items/members.

2.4 Ranks & Offices

Strategos
Requirements: None
Influence: 1
Powers:
(1) Can propose two Edicts or one Permanent Edict per Council Session.
(2) Can run for one lower office during Council Session.
(3) Can run for Chancellor.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot lead an army with more than 8 units in it.
(2) Cannot run for both Chancellor and lower office.

2.4.1 Lower Offices

Chief of Army
Requirements: None
Influence: 2 during Emergency Council Session.
Powers:
(1) Can set the recruitment queue in every settlement in the kingdom.
(2) Can lead an army of max 16 units.
(3) This office is always held in the same time as other ranks.
(4) If no one is elected in to this office then the Chancellor will receive it by default.
(5) Can propose up to 5 Edicts and 1 Permanent Edict during Emergency Council Sessions.
(6) Can ban(or lift an existing ban) reqruitment in one settlement for a year(4 turns). This applies to Private units as well.
(7) Can move captain lead armies any way he wishes.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot set recruitment queue in a settlement that belongs to an Allied kingdom.
(2) Cannot recruit fleets.
(3) Cannot move units through Allied kingdom if this is denied by the Allied ruler.
(4) Cannot move units in the territory of Nomarchy if the Nomarch have denied so.

Chief of Navy
Requirements: None
Influence: 2 during Emergency Council Session.
Powers:
(1) Can prioritize the construction of 2 fleets(~2 naval units) during his term.
(2) Can move any fleet that belongs to the kingdom.
(3) This office is always held in the same time as other ranks.
(4) If no one is elected in to this office then the Chancellor will receive it by default.
(5) Can propose up to 5 Edicts and 1 Permanent Edict during Emergency Council Sessions.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot move a fleet that belongs to an Allied kingdom.
(2) Cannot recruit land units.
(3) Cannot move fleets to the ports of Allied kingdom if this is denied by the Allied ruler.

Royal Treasurer
Requirements: None
Influence: 2 during Emergency Council Session.
Powers:
(1) Can set the tax rate in every settlement in the kingdom.
(2) This office is always held in the same time as other ranks.
(3) If no one is elected in to this office then the Chancellor will receive it by default.
(4) Can propose up to 5 Edicts and 2 Permanent Edicts during Emergency Council Sessions.
(5) Must each turn calculate the personal income of each Strategos.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot command more than 3 units.
(2) Cannot set tax rate in Allied kingdoms and nomarchies.

2.4.2 Higher Offices

Chancellor
Requirements:
(1) Cannot be a Client.
Influence: 2 during Emergency Council Session.
Every Ex-Chacellor will receive permanent +1 bonus to his Influence. This bonus is cumulative to Strategoi who serve multiple terms as Chancellor. The post-term bonus does not apply to the Basileus or to any Strategos who ceased to be Chancellor because he was impeached.
Powers:
(1) All agents are under command of the Chancellor. He can move them and use them in any way he wishes.
(2) This office is always held in the same time as other ranks.
(3) If no one is elected in to the lower office then the Chancellor will also receive the powers of that office.
(4) Can call Emergency Council Session.
(5) Can set the build queue in every settlement in the kingdom.
(6) Can propose unlimited number of Edicts and 3 Permanent Edicts during Emergency Council Sessions.
Limitations to Powers:
(1) Cannot set build queue in Allied kingdoms and nomarchies.
(2) Must respect all settlement build queues. However, he is not required to build anything in Allied kingdom(except prioritized buildings).
(3) Cannot remove a building from any build queue if construction has already begun on it, unless the owner of the province agrees otherwise.
(4) No money can be spent on any recruitment/building until all Prioritized Units/Buildings have been funded, unless Player who Prioritized them agree otherwise. If there are multiple Prioritized Units/Buildings, and not enough funding for all of them then Chancellor may choose which to recruit/build first. Players may specify the type of unit to be recruited and the location for the recruitment. Artillery, mercenaries and retraining cannot be Prioritized.

Nomarch
Requirements:
(1) Cannot be a Client.
(2) Must own an Estate.
(3) Must be elected into this office by the Council or given by the Basileus. Can be impeached by the Council during sessions.
Influence: 2 + 3 Stat Influence
During Emergency Council Session will receive +2 bonus to his Influence.
Powers:
(1) Can set the build queue and tax rate in every settlement in his Nomarchy.
(2) Can move any unit in his Nomarchy except Private units.
(3) Can ban reqruitment in his Nomarcy for as long as he wishes. This does not apply to Private units.
(4) Can propose unlimited number of Edicts and Permanent Edicts.
(5) Cannot be banned from the Council Session.
(6) Can run for Chancellor and to one of the lower offices.
(7) Twice per full 12 turn Chancellor term, can Prioritize one building in any build queue in any settlement he control.
(8) Can call Emergency Council Session if at least 2 other Strategoi second it.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot siege any enemy settlements. However, he can attack enemy units in any province neighboring his Nomarchy.

2.4.3 Royal Titels

Kleronomos Basileios
Requirements: Must be the in-game Faction Heir
Influence: 2 + 3 Stat Influence
During Emergency Council Session will receive +2 bonus to his Influence.
Powers:
(1) In the absence of the Basileus, the 'Heir' can ban Players from a Council Session. Banned Players cannot speak or propose legislation, but they are permitted to vote.
(2) Owns one Royal Army.
(3) Can propose unlimited number of Edicts and 3 Permanent Edicts during Council Sessions.
(4) Can prioritize two units during full 12 turn Chancellor term.

Basileus
Requirements: Must be the in-game Faction Leader
Influence: 2 + Half the in-game Influence
Powers:
(1) Can propose an unlimited number of Edicts or Permanent Edicts per Council Session and his Edicts and Permanent Edicts do not need to be seconded.
(2) Can call Emergency Council Session.
(3) Owns one Royal Army.
(4) Twice per full 12 turn Chancellor term, can Prioritize a building in any build queue in any settlement.
(5) Once per full 12 turn Chancellor term, can destroy one building in any settlement. Buildings in the barracks lines cannot be destroyed with this power.
(6) Once per full 12 turn Chancellor term, can force a transfer of one retinue member/item from any Player to themselves or any other Strategos.
(7) Can prioritize five units during full 12 turn Chancellor term.
(8) Can declare war on any faction at any time, for any reason.
(9) Can veto one Edict or Permanent Edict per Council Session
(10) Can ban Strategoi from a Council Session. Banned Strategoi cannot speak or propose legislation, but they are permitted to vote.
(11) Can move the Capital at any time, as long as the new Capital is controlled by the Basileus.
(12) Can give the title "Nomarch" to any Player he wishes during the Council Session.
(13) Can decide who will be the next Heir at anytime he wishes.
(14) Once during his reign the Basileus can automatically assume the post of Chancellor. The Basileus must declare he is exercising that right at a Council session; he will then be appointed Chancellor with no election. This right can only be invoked once.
(15) During each Council Session the Basileus can automatically assume the post of one of the lower offices. The Basileus must declare he is exercising that right at a Council session; he will then be appointed to that office with no election.
In-game Influence based powers/penalties:
(1) If the Influence is 2 and lower the Basileus will loose his powers 5, 6, 9. 10, 11, 13, 14 and 15.
(2) If the Influence is 3-4 then the Basileus will loose his powers 9, 10, 14, 15.
(3) If the Influence is 5-6 then the Basileus will loose his powers 9, 10.
(4) If the Influence is 7-8 then the Basileus can automatically assume the position of two lower offices. The Basielus must declare he is exercising that right at the Council Session; he will then be appointed to those offices with no election.
(5) If the Influence is 9-10 then the Basileus can automatically assume the position of all the offices. The Basielus must declare he is exercising that right at the Council Session; he will then be appointed to those offices with no election.

2.4.4 Military ranks

Strategos Epilektos
Requirements:
(1) Must have won more than 5 battles. Battles against brigands do not count.
Influence: 1
Powers:
(1) Can propose two Edicts or one Permanent Edict per Council Session.
(2) Can run for one lower office during Council Session.
(3) Can run for Chancellor.
(4) Can lead an army of max 12 units unless it is a Royal Army.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot run for both Chancellor and lower office.

Strategos Hetairos
Requirements:
(1) Must have won more than 10 battles. Battles against brigands do not count.
(2) Must own an Estate.
Influence: 1 + 2 Stat Influence
Powers:
(1) Can propose three Edicts and one Permanent Edict per Council Session.
(2) Can run for one lower office during Council Session.
(3) Can run for Chancellor.
(4) Can lead an army of max 16 units unless it is a Royal Army.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot run for both Chancellor and lower office.

2.5 Patronage system

Incase a Player wants to join the game but there is no avatar available at that time then he may ask one of the existing Players to be his Patron.
Patrons pay the recruitment cost of a RBG from their private finances. New player is then considered his Client.
Patrons receive +1 Influence bonus for every Client they have during Council Sessions.
Clients have to repay the recruitment cost to the Patrons in order to end the patronage.
Clients cannot own Estates.
If Clients end the patronage before they have repayd the recruitment cost then Patrons can during the next Council Session prosecute the Client and demand the Council to punish him.

2.6 Allied Kingdom

Players can attack Eleutheroi settlements with their Private units(and only with them) even if war has not been declared against that settlement.
If settlement is captured then the Player have the right to declare himself a King of that province.
He will then be considered as Allied ruler to the Ptolemaic Kingdom.

2.6.1 Ranks & Offices

Allied Ruler can create his own ranks and offices if he wants.

Allied King
Requirements:
(1) Must have captured an Eleutheroi settlement with his Private Units only.
(2) Must have declared himself King in an IC thread.
Powers:
(1) During Council Sessions he can propose one Edict and it does not need to be seconded.
(2) Owns one Allied Army.
(3) Twice per full 12 turn Chancellor term, can Prioritize a building in any build queue in any settlement he owns.
(4) Once per full 12 turn Chancellor term, can destroy one building in any settlement he owns. Mnai gained from it will be added to the Personal funds of the Allied King.
(5) Once per full 12 turn Chancellor term, can force a transfer of one retinue member/item from any Player to themselves or any other Strategos. This power can only be used if the target Strategos is in the territory of Allied kingdom.
(6) Can set the recruitment queue in any settlement he control. Recruitment cost(just like the upkeep) will be deducted from the Personal funds of the Allied King.
(7) Can prioritize two units during full 12 turn Chancellor term.
(8) Can declare war on any faction at any time, for any reason.
(9) Can ban Strategoi from entering his kingdom.
(11) Can move the Capital of his kingdom at any time, as long as the new Capital is controlled by the King.
(12) Can decide who will be the next Heir of his kingdom at anytime he wishes.
(13) Can at anytime gift his kingdom to the Basileus. He will then receive permanently the rank of Strategos Hetairos even if requirements for it haven't been fulfilled.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot run for any offices.

Government(IC)

3.1 Sessions

The Council will meet in a Normal Session after every 12 turns.
Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations.
Each Normal and Emergency Session consists of 3 real time days of debate, followed by 2 real time days of voting.

3.2 Proposing Legislations

During each session, Strategoi may propose Edicts and Permanent Edicts, up to the limit allowed by their rank.
Edicts must be seconded by one, Permanent Edicts by two other Senators before they can be put to the vote.

3.2.1 Edicts - They will be proposed during Council Sessions. They require a simple majority of votes to pass and remain in effect until the next normal session of the Council. Tied Edicts fail. If contradictory Editcs are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.
3.2 2 Permanent Edicts - They require a simple majority of votes to pass and remain in effect until the next normal session of the Council. Tied PE's fail. If contradictory PE's are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.

3.3 Rule Changes

Rule Changes require a two-thirds majority of unweighted votes (1 vote per player) to pass.
Rule Changes can permanently change the Game Rules.
Any player can propose Rule Changes, regardless of IC rank.
Ibn-Khaldun can veto any proposed Rule Change, but does not vote.
Game Rules are enforced by IC or OOC means, as Ibn-Khaldun sees fit.
RC's must be proposed during Council Session in a Rule Changes thread.

3.4 Influence

Each Strategos’s voting power is equivalent to his total Influence, as defined by Rule 2.4.
No Strategos’s Influence may ever be lower than 1.
For the purposes of determining Stat Influence, a Strategos can gain 1 point of Stat Influence for each of the following conditions that he meets: (a) 5+ ranks of Command (b) 10 ranks of Command (c) 15+ total stat points (d) 25+ total stat points

3.5 War

Except as allowed by rank powers under Rule 2.4 and 2.6, any declaration of war must be authorized by a Permanent Edict.

3.6 Elections

At each Normal Session, on the death of the official or on the impeachment of the official, there is an election to the offices.
Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age).

3.7 – Impeachment

The Officials can be impeached and removed from office by a two-thirds majority vote of the Council.
Impeachment takes effect immediately after the vote is passed.
After impeachment, a fresh election is held to elect a new Official, although the Basileus may also exercise his power to become one at that point.
The Strategos replacing the impeached Official serves out the remainder of the impeached Official’s term.
All Edicts passed in the Council session that elected the impeached Official remain valid, unless overturned by new Edicts at the Emergency Session that impeached him.

4. Armies

4.1 Royal Armies

Royal Armies will consist of a minimum of 6 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 3 cavalry regiments.
For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ Bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments.
The owner of a Royal Army will determine who commands the Army, where it is to move (if at all), and whom to attack.
Only Royal Armies can have elephants in them. The Royal Army of the Basileus can have max 2 units of elephants and the Royal Army of the Kleronomos Basileion can have 1 unit of elephants.
Basilikon Agema, Klerouchon Agema and Hetairoi units should be limited to the Royal Armies.
Kleronomos Basileios' Royal Army can have max 2 out of them. Basileus' Royal Army can have max 4 out of them.

4.2 Regular Armies

Regular Armies consist of a minimum of 4 infantry regiments, 2 ranged and 2 cavalry regiments.
For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ Bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments.
Basileus will decide who commands it.
Regular Armies can be created only during the Council Session by an Edict.
All Regular Armies are marked with a number and a name of the region where they were first formed: 'IV Syrian Army'
Regular Armies can be disbanded only during the Council Session using an Edict.

4.3 Army Replenishment

If a Regular or Royal Army falls below the minimum strength level, all military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Army to minimum strength before money can be spent on other recruitment, unless the Basileus agrees otherwise.
In the event of a conflict, a Royal Army takes priority over a Regular Army.

4.4 Private Units

Private Units are units that are bought by Strategoi using Personal Finances. Each Strategos is responsible for paying their upkeep. If Strategos cannot pay upkeep and falls into dept these units can be disbanded by the Chief of Armies or the Chancellor.

4.5 Unit transfer to another faction:

All players can transfer their units to another faction in anytime they want and they don't need permission from the Council or Basileus to do that.
They can send their units only to adjacent province where their avatar currently is stationed.
If Player want to transfer units from a ship then ship must be next to shore.
The target can be Avatar led army or a settlement but not a Captain led army.
If Player want to use this feature then you must send a PM to Ibn-Khaldun and say exactly what unit should be transferred and where.
Ibn-Khaldun is not responsible if a wrong unit is transferred or a unit is transferred to a wrong place because of faulty instructions.
Only units that the other faction can recruit(including mercenaries) can be transferred.

Personal Funds and Civil Wars sections are not in at the moment. I may change some small things before the game starts but most of the Rules will stay the same.

As you already know, I'm in too. :yes:

Oh, and you did mean that the Nomarch will stay in office as long as he is not impeached, right? ~;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

As you already know, I'm in too. :yes:

Oh, and you did mean that the Nomarch will stay in office as long as he is not impeached, right? ~;)

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Yes, I did. :embarassed:

An EB rpg, and for my favorite faction? I'm in.

Good to have you, Zim!

Just have to finish the Rules now and then I should advertise this game a bit.

I would like to start with 8-10 people who actively participate. More than that and people might lose interest soon.

A small update:

1. I have decided that everything concerning Personal Finances should be left out of the main Rules and put to a specific thread. The only thing about the Personal Finances in the main Rules should be this:

Quote:

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3.8 Personal Finaces(OOC)

Royal Treasurer will keep track of Personal finances and post them in a specific thread in the end of each turn.
How Players can spend/increase their finances will be posted in the same thread. Ibn-Khaldun can edit that list at will.

---

Reason: It would be much easier if I could make changes to the Personal Finances system when needed instead of waiting until the next Council Session starts. I also think that this will be more convenient for the players.

2. Civil Wars part should be added hopefully in the next few days. I got a cold and I just couldn't finish them.

If more people would sign up then perhaps I could ask a sub-forum for the game.

Count me in.

We will certainly support this game with its own sub-forum once it is ready to kick off.

Unfortunately I will not be participating at least at the outset.

I will be able to participate when I get my new PC, so around Thirsday until I install all the stuff needed.

Hi, Myth. Good to have you! :bow:

Here is the first part of the Civil War rules. It's about claiming the throne. There is also PvP battle part added.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

5. Civil War (OOC)

5.1 Claiming the Throne

Any family member can claim the throne in a public IC thread and this will be considered a declaration of war against the Basileus.
Due to the limitations of RTW engine Players who are not family members cannot claim the throne.
All players must then pick a side or declare neutrality. Neutrality cannot be claimed by a Basileus, a declarer or anyone who has been involved in a PvP Battle during that specific Civil War.
The Civil War will end when either the declarer or the Basileus dies in a battle or is forced to surrender.
If the Basileus dies then the declarer will become the new Basileus.
All Players who supported the Basileus can choose to either support the new Basileus or continue the Civil War as a Private War.
The old Basileus will also be killed when he decided to surrender.
During the Civil War the Kingdom will receive -20% Income penalty.

5.1.1 War on the Campaign Map

While a Civil War is in progress, all players involved in the Civil War will lose their ability to make any moves on the campaign map.
On every game turn, all players involved in the Civil War will submit a PM to Ibn-Khaldun giving movement orders for that turn.
These movement orders can include up to a maximum of two of the following orders:

a) Gather/Recruit: The declarer can recruit any unit available in the province(both mercenaries and units recruitable from the settlement) using his private funds. All units recruited in this manner will be added into the avatar's army.
The Basileus may gather units that are located in the same province as his avatar, but which are not currently located in his avatar's army. The Basileus may also recruit any unit available in the province using his private funds or State Treasury. All units specified in this manner will be teleported into the avatar's army.

b) Move: The player may move his avatar's army into any adjacent province. If a player desires to cross a body of water, Ibn-Khaldun will determine how many Move orders are required to cross it, and whether the player can end a turn at sea.

c) Defend: The player fortifies his army in a specific province, providing a terrain/fort advantage if a battle occurs in that province before the player moves again.

After the turn ends, Ibn-Khaldun will implement all moves for players involved in the Civil War, utilizing the console.
The orders will be executed simultaneously for all players, but in the sequence they were listed in the PMs (i.e. Order 1 will be implement for all players, followed by Order 2 for all players).
If this movement results in a player entering a province with a hostile AI-controlled army, Ibn-Khaldun will determine whether a battle against the AI will occur.
Movement will continue in this manner until two hostile player-controlled armies enter the same province.
When this occurs, a PvP Battle will begin.
All PvP Battles will be considered Meeting Engagements, in which neither side has a terrain advantage, unless one of the armies was Defending the province where the battle occurred.
If this happens, the defending army will get a terrain advantage such as a high mountain, fort, or bridge is given to the Defender. The Umpire of the battle will determine the precise nature of the terrain advantage.

5.4 PvP Battles

Whenever a PvP Battle occurs, if both players agree, the battle will be fought via multiplayer, with Ibn-Khaldun or anyone he chooses acting as umpire.
The umpire will determine the map and the precise composition of the armies.
Hamachi network will be used for multiplayer battles.
If the battle is not fought via multiplayer, there will be a 24 hour voting period to determine how the battle will be fought.
The voting options will be (a) Tabletop Battle or (b) Abbreviated Tabletop Battle.
All players may vote, even those not involved in the battle, all votes will be unweighted, and the option that receives the most votes will be chosen.
Tabletop Battles will be in the style of the previous tabletop battles fought in the Throne Room and will be umpired by Ibn-Khaldun or anyone he chooses.
Abbreviated Tabletop Battles will be identical to a Tabletop Battle, but will be 1 turn in length.
Players will determine their starting positions and outline a general strategy for the battle.
The umpire will then play out the battle and determine the victor.
The umpire may allow a maximum of 1 or 2 additional turns beyond the starting turn if they so choose.
Regardless of the type of battle chosen, the umpire must attempts to have the battle replicate the in-game state of affairs to the best of his ability.
Regardless of the type of battle chosen, the umpire will determine the results, including, but not limited to, units to be disbanded as casualties, avatars to be killed off as casualties, and changes in the control of provinces.
Console commands may be used to implement the results.

Here is the last part of the Civil War Rules:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

5.2 Independence War

Any Player can declare himself independent.
To do so Player must enter one of the settlements with more units(his Private units) than the garrison in said settlement.
After Independence declaration is made all garrison units will go through loyalty check.
All units who did not join the Player will be disbanded.
All Players can then either join the Basileus or declare neutrality.
Neutrality cannot be claimed by a Basileus, a declarer or anyone who has been involved in a PvP Battle during that specific Independence War.
The Independence War will end when either the declarer or the Basileus dies in a battle, is forced to surrender or a peace treaty is signed.
During the Independence War the Kingdom will receive -10% Income penalty.

5.2.1 War on the Campaign Map

While an Independence War is in progress, all players involved in the Civil War will lose their ability to make any moves on the campaign map.
On every game turn, all players involved in the Civil War will submit a PM to Ibn-Khaldun giving movement orders for that turn.
These movement orders can include up to a maximum of two of the following orders:

a) Gather/Recruit: The declarer can recruit any unit available in the province(both mercenaries and units recruitable from the settlement) using his private funds. All units recruited in this manner will be added into the avatar's army.
The Basileus may gather units that are located in the same province as his avatar, but which are not currently located in his avatar's army. The Basileus may also recruit any unit available in the province using his private funds or State Treasury. All units specified in this manner will be teleported into the avatar's army.

b) Move: The player may move his avatar's army into any adjacent province. If a player desires to cross a body of water, Ibn-Khaldun will determine how many Move orders are required to cross it, and whether the player can end a turn at sea.

c) Defend: The player fortifies his army in a specific province, providing a terrain/fort advantage if a battle occurs in that province before the player moves again.
The declarer is always considered to be Defender in the province he declared independence. Basileus is always considered to be Defender in any othe province.

After the turn ends, Ibn-Khaldun will implement all moves for players involved in the Independence War, utilizing the console.
The orders will be executed simultaneously for all players, but in the sequence they were listed in the PMs (i.e. Order 1 will be implement for all players, followed by Order 2 for all players).
If this movement results in a player entering a province with a hostile AI-controlled army, Ibn-Khaldun will determine whether a battle against the AI will occur.
Movement will continue in this manner until two hostile player-controlled armies enter the same province.
When this occurs, a PvP Battle will begin.
All PvP Battles will be considered Defence Battles, in which one side has a terrain advantage.
The defending army will get a terrain advantage such as a high mountain, fort, or bridge is given to the Defender. The Umpire of the battle will determine the precise nature of the terrain advantage.
The Declarer can always decide for Siege battle if he is in his province.

5.3 Private Wars

A Player must make a Declaration of War towards a specific Player in a public thread before they can attack any of that Player’s armies or settlements/estates.
A Declaration of War applies to all Players who are Clients of both the Player who makes the Declaration and the Player who is the target of the Declaration, including Players who become Clients after the Declaration of War has been made.
The Private war ends with a peace treaty or with the death of either the declarer or the target.
During the Private War the Kingdom will receive -10% Income penalty.

5.3.1 War on the Campaign map

Whenever two hostile armies enter adjacent squares, a PvP Battle will occur, even if the armies have movement points remaining.
During Private War all Players involved can move their avatars normally unless they are also part of another Civil War that forbids them making any moves on the campaign map.

I really would like if all of you could check what I have proposed so far. All suggestions are weolcomed. If you know how to word some parts better then please let me know. I'm not a native English speaker so what I thought was correct might actually not be so.

I think I move the Rules into the first post for easy finding.

Also, we need a name for the game. These were my proposals: "Rise of the Eagles" or "Return of the Pharaohs"

Paradise of the Ptolemies?

Hey, I'm new here but I've been a long time lurker and long player of Europa Barbarorum.

Wondering if I could join up because this looks very interesting. I think Return of the Pharaohs sounds like a great name.

Of course You can join. And yes, it is very interesting game. Check the old game threads in TW RPGs sub forum above if you want to know more.

I used to read the RPG when you guys were the Byzantines in a M2TW mod. That looked great and similar to this but I never got around to joining.

You should have joined when we played as the Arche Seleukeia in WotB. :tongue:

This looks interesting! And complicated :dizzy2: I would be interested in trying it out though, once I figure out the rules :laugh4:

If you have questions then just ask. I'm here to answer them. ~:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashurnasirpal II

This looks interesting! And complicated :dizzy2: I would be interested in trying it out though, once I figure out the rules :laugh4:

---

It's actually not that complicated, after a few turns everything will become clear.

How about posting in the EB forum to drum up interest I-K? There are a few regulars there that weren't around for the previous games and probably wouldn't look at the rest of the org.

Well, I'll post a thread there or ask one of our Content Managers to do that. But after I test some things with the game.

Edit: Btw, here are some plans for the first save game.
1) Replace all those starting Machimoi phalangitai units with Klerouchoi Phalangitai. This is because historically the Ptolemaioi did not recruit(in large quantities) native Egiptians into their armies before Raphia.
2) Play the game until those 3 starting FM's who are about to die in the following few years are dead. Once they are dead I call an emergency Council Session that starts the real game.
3) Will move around some armies and make some other small changes for the other factions. Hopefully, this gives us more challenging start.
4) And also the usual "making the RBG's available for recruitment" stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

1) Replace all those starting Machimoi phalangitai units with Klerouchoi Phalangitai. This is because historically the Ptolemaioi did not recruit(in large quantities) native Egiptians into their armies before Raphia.

---

:yes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

3) Will move around some armies and make some other small changes for the other factions. Hopefully, this gives us more challenging start.

---

Could be an idea to strengthen the Seleucids around Antioch. Usually once you take there as the Ptolies they can't recover.

I've installed EB though I haven't had a chance to play it in great detail. This will be a totally new concept to me. But I'm up for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myth

I've installed EB though I haven't had a chance to play it in great detail. This will be a totally new concept to me. But I'm up for it.

---

That's the best way to play actually! ~;) I know I started my first game(Last of the Romans) just like that. Had a fun time until the end. Had I think 4 characters because they kept getting killed! :laugh4:

Currently interested people:
Cecil XIX
The Celtic Viking
Zim
johnhughtom
Myth
LeoCordis
Ashurnasirpal II

I'm quite ready to join the game. I need people to confirm that they are still participating. The first ones to confirm will get the chance to pick their avatar first. Tomorrow I'll advertise us in the EB forum as well.

Sweet, I've been waiting for one of these for ages. Confirmed. Dibs on the Thracian guy, the youngest one.

Right, confirming.

I guess I'll reinstall my EB.

Confirmed. Alexandros Thraikikos for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnhughthom

Sweet, I've been waiting for one of these for ages. Confirmed. Dibs on the Thracian guy, the youngest one.

---

I assume you mean Leontiskos Thraikikos?

If so I will take a RGB because I'd rather leave the middle aged guy to someone else. Rather start with a young character.

Confirming from work :beam: but since I can't look at the game here, I'll say just give me anyone, it'll probably take me a while to figure out the game so my starting character doesn't matter overmuch.

I think there is middle-aged brother of the faction leader and the faction leader left, assuming the old guys are being left to die before we start.

Yes, the old ones will die. I am willing to allow adoptions if one of them is the adopter. Also, marriages to one of their daughters will be allowed(that bethrothed thing).
I will take a RBG, just to let you know. Hopefully, someone active could take the FL. Wouldn't be fun to overthrough someone inactive. ~:)

Ok so having checked the game, I don't think I have the experience to be FL, so why not the older Meleagros Ptolemaios for me. He probably wont last that long seeing he's already 43, but will give me time to get used to the game. Plus I like his 'personality' traits. He sounds like a stubborn liberal :laugh4:

That gives about 20 years to play him. That's 80 turns or 6-7 Chancellor terms(one term lasts 12 turns). So, this gives a lot of time to play as him.

Someone called for a king? :eyebrows:

Confirmed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

Yes, the old ones will die. I am willing to allow adoptions if one of them is the adopter. Also, marriages to one of their daughters will be allowed(that bethrothed thing).
I will take a RBG, just to let you know. Hopefully, someone active could take the FL. Wouldn't be fun to overthrough someone inactive. ~:)

---

If in the turns you play out an adoption or marriage comes along, I'd like to have one of those then I guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeoCordis

I assume you mean Leontiskos Thraikikos?

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Yep, hadn't played a Ptolemies game in a while and couldn't remember his name, he's the one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

Someone called for a king? :eyebrows:

---

:sweatdrop:

Hmm. I'll have to set it up, but if possible, put me down.

I'm interested but I'm right in the middle of an exam now so I don't exactly have the time for it. When will it start?

Btw, how do I upload a savedgame?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

Someone called for a king? :eyebrows:

Confirmed.

---

If you want to overthrow someone, he's your guy.

srsly.

strategos roma - I would like to start the First Council Session in Friday or Saturday the following few days.

How to upload a saved game?

1. From the top of the page click Download

2. The you see PBM Save Game Files category.

3. Click on 2011

4. Now you should see at the top of the page (under those News, Forum, Tournaments etc stuff) Upload File link.

5. Enter the name of the save. And below there is Upload File box. Once you have uploaded your save just press Submit and that's all.

Visorslash - You're in my list now.

EDIT: Btw, how does "Kings of the Nile" sound? KotN for short.

I'm interested, though I never took part in anything like this, so I will have to study the rules carefully... but I like the idea!

If you want to know more about these kind of games then take a look at this thread.

Announcement

I have played the game and created the starting save. Our position is quite interesting. Tarsos is under siege. Paraitonion was captured by the Philon of Kyrene. Large Seleucid army is in Damascus. I was able to sign ceasefire with Pontos and Macedonia. King is in Sidon and his army is right next to the city. Heir is in Memphis and his army is outside the city. It's Summer of 269.

I'll post the save and the moded files when I get back from work. 10 RBG's were created. A guy married into the family and Euergetes became of age.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

Announcement

I have played the game and created the starting save. Our position is quite interesting. Tarsos is under siege. Paraitonion was captured by the Philon of Kyrene. Large Seleucid army is in Damascus. I was able to sign ceasefire with Pontos and Macedonia. King is in Sidon and his army is right next to the city. Heir is in Memphis and his army is outside the city. It's Summer of 269.


I'll post the save and the moded files when I get back from work. 10 RBG's were created. A guy married into the family and Euergetes became of age.

---

Can I take the guy who married into the family then? Better than an RGB methinks.

I'll post the mugshots of the avatars after work. You can then decide who you want. Some RBG-s have better traits than him in my opinion.

All of you please download this: Modified files and the starting save

Copies of original files are included. EBBS script is necessary to play the game and to reduce possibilities of CTD's. All other files are not necessary to play the game but I thought I add them as well.

Will post the pictures of avatars as soon as possible.

Right, swapping my character once more. :D

I'll have the second guy in the stack of RGB's, Bothos I think his first name is.

Since you don't mind my posting the RGBs I-K, I thought it would speed things along.

First half:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...08-28-60-1.jpg
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...08-33-78-1.jpg
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...08-34-83-1.jpg
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...08-35-92-1.jpg
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...08-36-66-1.jpg
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...08-37-39-1.jpg

Second bunch:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...21-49-98-1.jpg
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...21-51-06-1.jpg
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...21-52-21-1.jpg
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...21-53-46-1.jpg
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...21-54-33-1.jpg

Thank You johnhughthom! :bow:

Taken characters:

johnhughthom - Leontiskos Thraikikos

LeoCordis - Bothos Lapedou Kypriakou

Myth - Alexandros Thraikikos

Ashurnasirpal II - Meleagros Ptolemaios

The Celtic Viking - Philadelphos Ptolemaios

GenosseGeneral - Satyrion Limyraios

Zim - Euergetes Ptolemaios

Visorslash - Ankhwennefer Philometor

strategos roma - Isigonos Kleopatrites

Players who haven't yet picked:

Cecil XIX (haven't confirmed his participation)

Also, Philadelphos Ptolemaios' son, Euergetes is available:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/...ergetes269.jpg

And finally, I made some small changes to the Rules(replaced Permanent Edicts with Laws etc).

I will take Satyrion Limyraios.

Btw, I asked a subforum for our game. Hopefully we can get it. ~:)

EDIT: He is yours GG! :yes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

If you want to overthrow someone, he's your guy.

srsly.

---

Hahaha, you can just feel the love flowing through the screen!

You've got to admit though that putting me in a powerful position is a sure way to make the game more... interesting... even if only by making people try to get me out of it! :laugh4:

lol. I wondered when you were going to notice that...:laugh4:

I'll take Euergetes if he's still up and you have noone in mind for him.

Ankhwennerfer Philometer please.

Gah, last time I try to edit my posts with a phone...

I'll take Isigonos Kleopatrites.

He is yours!

Damn.. Now I have to find another character for myself..

Btw, This is the Personal Finances info I promised. Here are listed how to gain mnai and how to spend it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Basic Income Sources

Estate
Cost: 2000 mnai + Recruitment cost of supervisors
(Supervisors - Either skirmishers, archers or slingers who are needed to keep the fort disappearing)
Income: settlement taxes + farming income
Misc:
1) Can only be built in Homeland territories with Type 1 government.
2) Cannot be built by the Clients.
3) If the fort is left ungarrisoned and it disappears then person who lost it must pay another 2000 mnai to rebuild it.
4) If there are Brigands in the same province as Estate then it will get 50% income penalty.
5) If Enemy army is in the same province as Estate then it will get 75% income penalty.
6) Supervisors are considered Private units.
7) Only one unit is considered Supervisors.

Sea trade
Cost: 500 mnai per cargo ship
Income: Export + Import of a trade route.
Misc:
1) Ship owners must at the start of each year declare in a Royal Treasury thread that they have signed a trade contract.
2) Trade Contract - Player must choose Home and Target ports.
3) Players can have only one trade route at the time.
4) Each Player can have maximum of 15 ships.
5) Each ship have upkeep cost of 50 mnai.
6) If there are Pirates close to the Home/Target port then there will be 50% Income penalty.
7) If Pirates or Enemy fleet blockades Home/Target port then there will be 100% Income penalty and the possibility to loose ships.

Loot from Battles
Cost: n/a
Income: The number of enemies / 2
Misc:
1) Battles against Brigands do not give Loot.
2) If enemy settlement is conquered then the general who captured it will receive the Loot(how much is gained depends whether Occupy, Expel or Enslave was chosen).


Other Income Sources

Corruption
Income: Corruption penalty from the Settlements Details
Misc:
1) Only for Officials.
2) Must be present in the city.
3) Will be automatically transferred to the Hidden Account.
4) Player who wants to use this option should PM Ibn-Khaldun.

Expenditures

Anonymous Messengers
Cost: 50 per message
Misc:
1) If Player want's to send an anonymous message to another Player then he should PM his text to Ibn-Khaldun who will then forward it to the right person.
2) The Person who received the message can reply without paying anything.

Fiddle with the votes
Cost: 500 mnai
Misc:
1) During voting period Players can PM Ibn-Khaldun and ask to increase/lower Influence of another Player. Influence can not go lower than 1!
2) Players can use this power also on themselves.
3) This can be used only once during voting period!

Assassination attempt
Cost: 1000 mnai
Misc:
1) No, you can't kill another avatar this way!
2) The success depends on the traits and ancillaries of the target.
3) If succsessful, then the target cannot move during the next turn.
4) Teleporting option cannot be used if the attempt was succssessful.

Other

Hidden Accounts
Misc:
1) Can be used once a year(4 turns).
2) Player should PM Ibn-Khaldun and say how much mnai he wants to hide.
3) Hidden mnai can be used the same way as unhidden one.
4) Players can't hide more than 1000 mnai per year.

Slave Trader
Misc:
1) Every Player can buy whatever retinue member/item that other Players have transferred to the "Slave trader"(Rule 2.3).
2) Each of these retinue mebers/items cost 100 mnai.

I am certain that there will be some more options in the future.

Some more news:
a) I decide to call the game "Kings of the Nile". Hope you don't mind?
b) I'm going to create some threads soon so that you could start roleplaying!
c) The game will start with the Emergency Council Session called by the Chancellor Eunostos Kypriakos. I will play him during the Council session. After that I will get another avatar.
(Why is it that this guy always manage to live over 80 in all my games as Ptolemaioi?!)
d) Here is the starting sum for each player:

Quote:

---

Basileus Philadelphos Ptolemaios (aka TCV) - 5000 mnai
Leontiskos Thraikikos (aka johnhughthom) - 4000 mnai
Everybody else - 3000 mnai

---

e) If you want to build an estate then let me know and I will do it. Will spawn a supervisors unit there as well.
f) If there are any questions then please ask! I'm here to answer them! :yes:

From now one all OOC talk should be made in this thread here - KotN OOC thread

Can I still join? If so, Kydrogenes Epiphanes please.

Of course you can. Welcome aboard! And Kydrogenes is yours!

Hey guys,

I haven't played EB in quite a while, but when I checked the forum yesterday I noticed this game in Ibn-Khaldun's signature and it looks really cool. So I've reinstalled EB and I would love to join. I've checked the characters available and I would like to be Timon Arrhidaeos, one of the RGBs just outside Memphis. I hope I can still join.

Regards,

Folgore

Welcome Folgore! ~:wave:

Yes, you can join. Unfortunatelly, you missed the first Council Session but You are still allowed to vote. Check the Rules and if something is still unclear then PM me or ask your questions in the OOC thread.

Howdy guys! I am a longtime player of EB, but I just happened across this today.

How do I get started?

Also, I ran your saves to make sure that we were running the same version: I seem to be able to play your campaign without installing your PBM mod- but I will install it anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paul D

Howdy guys! I am a longtime player of EB, but I just happened across this today.

How do I get started?

Also, I ran your saves to make sure that we were running the same version: I seem to be able to play your campaign without installing your PBM mod- but I will install it anyway.

---

You have to install the PBM mod since we are using different EBBS script and there are some other changes(important to the one who is ending the save montly) there.

Also, we have one FM available. You can view hin in the first post. If you don't like him then I can always recruit a RBG for you.

However:

Quote:

---

2.6 Patronage system

Incase a Player wants to join the game but there is no avatar available at that time then he may ask one of the existing Players to be his Patron.
Patrons pay the recruitment cost of a RBG from their private finances. New player is then considered his Client.
Patrons receive +1 Influence bonus for every Client they have during Council Sessions.
Clients have to repay the recruitment cost to the Patrons in order to end the patronage.
Clients cannot own Estates.
If Clients end the patronage before they have repayd the recruitment cost then Patrons can during the next Council Session prosecute the Client and demand the Council to punish him.

---

I installed your mods, everything is in working order.

Is part of your script so that recruited generals don't give a penalty for being in cities? I hope so, or else we would have some awful unrest problems!

Recruit me a general please.
I saw that guy ingame (Hermon Alexandreianos). To be honest, he is much suited for being a character who just governs a core city of ours, as he seems to have traits that reduce squalor in a settlement he governs, so maybe we should send him off to one of our other big crowded cities for governing.

On that note, if clients cannot own estates, how exactly are they supposed to pay back their patron? Fight an excessive amount of battles against huge enemy armies? Or trade boats? Personally, I don't want an estate anyway, I want them trades.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paul D

I installed your mods, everything is in working order.

Is part of your script so that recruited generals don't give a penalty for being in cities? I hope so, or else we would have some awful unrest problems!

Recruit me a general please.
I saw that guy ingame (Hermon Alexandreianos). To be honest, he is much suited for being a character who just governs a core city of ours, as he seems to have traits that reduce squalor in a settlement he governs, so maybe we should send him off to one of our other big crowded cities for governing.

On that note, if clients cannot own estates, how exactly are they supposed to pay back their patron? Fight an excessive amount of battles against huge enemy armies? Or trade boats? Personally, I don't want an estate anyway, I want them trades.

---

Yes, Clients can use trade routes. These generate more money than estates. However, check the game once in a while and resign the trade contract.

Recruited general trait will be removed from RBG by me.

Oh, alright.

Find yourself a Patron who is willing to pay the recruitment cost of your RBG unit.

I will be his patron and pay the cost his recruitment.

Isn't there a family member coming of age next year? Surely Paul D could use him without TCV having to pay a recruitment cost.

True, Philadelphos' second son will become of age this spring(i think).

That sounds like a good idea. It will have the same effect for me anyway, as it would take the same amount of time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paul D

That sounds like a good idea. It will have the same effect for me anyway, as it would take the same amount of time.

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Good, then it is decided. ~:)

Dang, he's a wuss. Oh well.

So can I make a post in the character thread?