Units That Must Be Omitted

Here is a list of units in RTW that I believe must be omitted from the game to free up space for newer units.. if any of you disagree or think I left out any units please post below

Arcani
Incendiary Pigs
Wardogs
Desert Axemen
Nile Spearmen
Pharaoh's Guard
Pharaoh's Bowmen
Desert Cavalry
Nile Cavalry
Egyptian Chariots
Egyptian Cavalry General
Egyptian Chariot General
Egyptian Chariot Archers
Onagers
Heavy Onagers
Ballistas
Repeating Ballistas
Scorpions
Druids
Screeching Women
Beserkers
Night Raiders
Head Hurlers
Head Hunting Maidens
Scythian Noble Women
Bull Warriors

Also I believe Peasants and Gladiators should be for Rebels only (for revolts)

So are you positive from historical research that non of these units existed?

In my opinion these unit need to stay:

-Ballistas
-Desert Axemen can be used as Egyptian Natives in the AOR with lowered stats
-Scorpions
-Night Raiders
-Beserkers - maybe change the name, but Germania needs to have big blood-thirsty fanatical warriors
-Bull Warriors - change the name, they represent the elite warriors of the Iberians

I got alot of it from the orgs wiki page.. and i'll post it.. but most of these units were long gone (egyptians) or rarely used (wardogs)

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Some of the units are ahistorical as well. The arcani, portrayed as in the game as heavily armoured pseudo-ninjas, are probably based on a group of agents provocateurs and spies known as areani in Roman Britain hundreds of years after the game takes place. Also, units of the Roman army such as the Urban Cohort and Praetorian Cohort are much more widely used for combat in the game than they ever were in the Roman Republic or Empire.
The Romans are not the only factions with ahistorical units. Druids, like those used in-game by the Barbarians, were in fact excused from military service in Celtic culture, being vital to the operation of organized village life.<ref>Goldsworthy, Adrian Caeser: The Life of a Colossus p. 242</ref> A totally invented unit is the British Head Hurlers, who hurl decapitated heads coated in quicklime. Severed heads were a valuable trophy in Celtic culture, and would never have been used as ammunition. The phalanx formation which the Germans employ in the game is also ahistorical, since Roman authors are emphatic that the only military formation employed by the Germani was the wedge, and the idea of pikes as Germanic weapons is contradicted by archeology as well as Tacitus (Germania Ch.6). The huge armored war elephants with howdahs, although perhaps the most spectacular unit in the game, were never used by Carthage; historic sources and depictions on coins all document small (perhaps 2.5 m/8.35 ft at the shoulder) North African Elephants with only a mahout. Also, the Bull Warriors of Spain did not exist.
The Egyptian military and culture is heavily influenced by the ancient Egypt of the New Kingdom than that of the Ptolemaic Egypt. Culture would have been of a Greek style with soldiers being identical to those of the other Diadochi and Macedonia.
Some units, such as wardogs and flaming pigs, were used on rare occasions, but not to the extent with which they can be used within the game. Also, Berserkers were not around during the time setting of the game. Berserkers were only used by the Vikings during the Viking Age, although they may represent some of the more ferocious Germanic tribes.
Furthermore the Macedonian "Royal Pikemen" are depicted wearing a shield with a lambda upon it. In fact the Spartans wore the lambda on their shield as it stands for the region Laconia where they came from. The Macedonian faction emblem also has a lambda upon it.

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Ummm...Yeah it's true that heads where thropys in celtic culture BUT some british warriors whoud take a few heads with them and throw them at the enemy...

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Originally Posted by Skull

Ummm...Yeah it's true that heads where thropys in celtic culture BUT some british warriors whoud take a few heads with them and throw them at the enemy...

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We could make some of the Briton units throw a head just before charge...like the Romans with the pilums...

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Originally Posted by Macedon1an

We could make some of the Briton units throw a head just before charge...like the Romans with the pilums...

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Yeah...Good ieda...:yes:

Quick note, Onagers were used by the Romans

Nicknamed wild asses because of the way they worked

Dacian axe men yes i'm on the side of valkar:yes:

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Originally Posted by Pharoah

Dacian axe men yes i'm on the side of valkar:yes:

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See Daco-romans history of Dacia...:yes:

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Originally Posted by Flanker

Quick note, Onagers were used by the Romans

Nicknamed wild asses because of the way they worked

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Where do they fit in your description of the roman military system?

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Originally Posted by Magneto

Where do they fit in your description of the roman military system?

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Well I updated the Roman Military description in the Historian thread, and there is a small part on onagers now.

An example of onagers being mentioned would be at the siege of Masada, where they were going to be used except the defenses were too high.

i say get rid of them as they were not widely used

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Originally Posted by ahowl11

i say get rid of them as they were not widely used

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I guess. There are far more mentions of Ballisatas than onagers.

Maybe we can make them a "siege only" weapon?

thats an idea but i dont know if it would work.. check your profile at TWC

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Originally Posted by Flanker

I guess. There are far more mentions of Ballisatas than onagers.

Maybe we can make them a "siege only" weapon?

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I doubt that will work. Unlike the other siege only equipment, onagers need a special crew - so basically, even if you get them to siege only equipment (which could be quite hard, if not impossible), you could just use them if you got a normal siege weapon
in your army - its crew could shoot they own equipment empty first, then go to the onagers. But I am not certain if that works with crew of different siege equipment. So, thats not a sollution.

We could make 1 type of ballista firing greater shots with more power.

i think its easier to just get rid of them guys.. lets get it done

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Originally Posted by Magneto

I doubt that will work. Unlike the other siege only equipment, onagers need a special crew - so basically, even if you get them to siege only equipment (which could be quite hard, if not impossible), you could just use them if you got a normal siege weapon
in your army - its crew could shoot they own equipment empty first, then go to the onagers. But I am not certain if that works with crew of different siege equipment. So, thats not a sollution.

We could make 1 type of ballista firing greater shots with more power.

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That's true,

And I think the regular ballista was the most powerful. There were also Scorpio-Ballistas (which were smaller) and the torsion Oxybelles (also smaller). However I think we should only have 1 maybe 2 types of Ballista.


Ahowl's suggestion of removing Onagers is the best

If we get rid of them, maybe the AI will put some proper troops in replacement. (in RTW, there were too many stacks of onagers and light troops)

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Originally Posted by Flanker

If we get rid of them, maybe the AI will put some proper troops in replacement. (in RTW, there were too many stacks of onagers and light troops)

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I realy never fought an army with more than 1 onager, and even those were absolutely rare.

but the ai always fights with them

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Originally Posted by Magneto

I realy never fought an army with more than 1 onager, and even those were absolutely rare.

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Perhaps I'm getting confused with Medieval 2 Total War?

In any case, Ahowl is probably right in removing these units

Removed.

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Originally Posted by merry

Agree to omit them.

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Hmm? I don´t understand.

Ok.:laugh4: That was pretty weird now.

I´ve implented the archer texture of carthage, but wasn´t sure it works. I make a custom battle with them, press Start Battle,
and everything went BLACK! In my whole house the electricy was gone!!! I was like "WTF!" But after a few seconds it was back again.:yes: Never was so happy about having a notebook, so I didn´t lost anything. I´m going to upload the current version of the files, just in case.
Attachment 1880
It´s called desktop, but it is a zip-archive of my current work. I´ll keep it updated.

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Originally Posted by Magneto

Hmm? I don´t understand.

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Is merry a team member? His only other post seems to flog a screencapture program.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Is merry a team member? His only other post seems to flog a screencapture program.

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I don´t know, I´m a new team member myself. And my post was just, that I didn´t know what he meant.

For the Ballistas issue.

I say we keep the Ballista for now and remove the rest to streamline the siege artillery.

And the repeating Ballista did apparently exist

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Originally Posted by Flanker

For the Ballistas issue.

I say we keep the Ballista for now and remove the rest to streamline the siege artillery.

And the repeating Ballista did apparently exist

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Keeping Ballistas and repeating ones, remove all the rest - Done!

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Originally Posted by Magneto

Keeping Ballistas and repeating ones, remove all the rest - Done!

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Scorpions?

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Originally Posted by Macedon1an

Scorpions?

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Ah well, I can implent them back in in a minute, so they aren´t gone forever - but at least for the alpha I make that way now.

I just made a battle: Macedionian Pike Phalanx against Egypt ones:
Attachment 1881
Look at the shields - pretty small. I highly doubt that they would have been of any use in a battle.

Macedon experienced and well-equipped heavy peltasts beat the shit out of their fresh recruited seleucid counterparts:
Attachment 1882

Hmm...nice...
What else have you made?

sorry about the files.. im very busy as im two days away from going to college.. will send you them today.. also Primo, download the Additional Units Pack from RTW Heaven and i'll give you a list of units that i want from it

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Originally Posted by Skull

Hmm...nice...
What else have you made?

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Well, the posted units. Or do you mean the texture? They aren´t mine. I got them from this thread here in the org, with the unused units.

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Originally Posted by ahowl11

sorry about the files.. im very busy as im two days away from going to college.. will send you them today.. also Primo, download the Additional Units Pack from RTW Heaven and i'll give you a list of units that i want from it

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Link plz?

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Originally Posted by Macedon1an

Scorpions?

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romans did indeed use scorpions so I sugest we keep them

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Originally Posted by Magneto

Link plz?

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I will post it.:yes:

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Originally Posted by Pharoah

romans did indeed use scorpions so I sugest we keep them

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And I suggest that we will stop disscussing till we release the alpha.

@Skull: Thanks

Here is the link.

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Originally Posted by Magneto

And I suggest that we will stop disscussing till we release the alpha.

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I've sorted that issue out in the Roman Army post with the new edit.

I made a Greek Cities Companion Cavalry:
Attachment 1907

You can skin?????????? I need you more than ever now! Those look amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However im not sure the greek cities had companion cavalry..

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Originally Posted by ahowl11

You can skin?????????? I need you more than ever now! Those look amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However im not sure the greek cities had companion cavalry..

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Well, thanks. But that isn´t mine, I found it Ingame. But I´m tryieng to learn skinning.

Attachment 1933
Well, My first skinned Unit: Roman Slingers. They aren´t perfect, but ok, I think.

Attachment 1935
Brown Slings now, as I think they are more historical as those shiny white ones.
Try to make a unit card now.

I like it Magneto.. you know what we are doing for skins isnt too hard.. all you have to do is re-color the textures to fit the faction:) try giving the ptolemaic empire peltasts:)

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Originally Posted by ahowl11

I like it Magneto.. you know what we are doing for skins isnt too hard.. all you have to do is re-color the textures to fit the faction:) try giving the ptolemaic empire peltasts:)

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That would be my next one. But first I make this unit card. I´m almost done.

I´m done with the card. It isn´t as good as I want it to be, but it isn´t as bad as I thought it will be.
Greek Egyptian Peltast now.

Done with both normal and Heavy Peltasts for Egypt:
Attachment 1938Attachment 1939Attachment 1940Attachment 1941Attachment 1942

Nice work,but...
There alredy was a Roman slinger...:yes:

Also,that egyptian does not work...=(

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Originally Posted by Skull

Nice work,but...
There alredy was a Roman slinger...:yes:

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Yes, discovered that an 2 hours ago, too. :(

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Originally Posted by Skull

Also,that egyptian does not work...=(

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What do you mean?

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Originally Posted by Magneto

Yes, discovered that an 2 hours ago, too. :(

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But yours look great.:D

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Originally Posted by Magneto

What do you mean?

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The attachments are invalid :yes:

Reloaded
In Picture 3 4 Peltasts Unit rout 2000 Town Watchs. Sometime we will have to highen the moral.

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Originally Posted by Magneto

Reloaded
In Picture 3 4 Peltasts Unit rout 2000 Town Watchs. Sometime we will have to highen the moral.

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Oh my god,look at that shielde...
:cheesy:
Sooo crative...:bow:

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Originally Posted by Skull

Oh my god,look at that shielde...
:cheesy:
Sooo crative...:bow:

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Thanks! Which shields do you mean? Both?

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Originally Posted by Magneto

Thanks! Which shields do you mean? Both?

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At the peltast ones{not heavy peltast}

nice work magneto, just instead of white outlines on the heavy peltast's shield make it a black outline to match their colors

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Originally Posted by ahowl11

nice work magneto, just instead of white outlines on the heavy peltast's shield make it a black outline to match their colors

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Ok.

Announcement

As Co-leader of this project i must tell that im not really happy with what is happening know. Many units and reskins that are done are far from Historical, and many units added to certain faction are neither.
Please, Skinners and Modellers, keep to the schedulal, and don't go berserk in doing stuff. I like you efforts, input, but if we want to finish this, we need order and structure.

agreed.. like i said greek cities didnt have companion cavalry.. please no spear cohorts.. lets stick to the original unit schedule and release this

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Originally Posted by ahowl11

agreed.. like i said greek cities didnt have companion cavalry.. please no spear cohorts.. lets stick to the original unit schedule and release this

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Done. And I read that with the spear cohorts in a thread here, and thought It was supposed to be that way.

Why not spear cohorts?
The look awsome and give the romans a deacent spearmen unit

its isn't historical. The romans used Auxilias as counter cavalry and support.

The urban cohorts were a police force, they were something between Town Watch and Legionaires... That's why they were made spearmen... Now, either we remove them from the game or we are going to make them be a stronger type of Town Watch recruitable only in Rome.

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Originally Posted by Macedon1an

The urban cohorts were a police force, they were something between Town Watch and Legionaires... That's why they were made spearmen... Now, either we remove them from the game or we are going to make them be a stronger type of Town Watch recruitable only in Rome.

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Dito.

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Originally Posted by Magneto

Dito.

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What? :huh::confused:

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Originally Posted by Macedon1an

What? :huh::confused:

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Well, that´s supposed to mean "I´m your opinion."

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Originally Posted by Magneto

Well, that´s supposed to mean "I´m your opinion."

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Ohhhh OK :)

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Originally Posted by Macedon1an

Ohhhh OK :)

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Well, sometimes one can notice how we all are from different countrys.

i know dito:) but ya just take urbans out

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Originally Posted by ahowl11

i know dito:) but ya just take urbans out

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Completely now? Ok.

yup, thanks buddy

Urbans histroically garrisoned cities in the empire, not just in rme and they had spears anf chainmail, but the empire is a little towards the end of the game so...

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Originally Posted by Caesar15

Urbans histroically garrisoned cities in the empire, not just in rme and they had spears anf chainmail, but the empire is a little towards the end of the game so...

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That's true, but wouldn't the Urbans be redundant with the town watch already in place (in the game)?

We could some how script the town watch to disapear with the marian reforms?

Historically Urban Cohorts were formed in just 3 cities: Rome, Carthage and Lugdunum... All the other cities had Town Watch...

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Originally Posted by Macedon1an

Historically Urban Cohorts were formed in just 3 cities: Rome, Carthage and Lugdunum... All the other cities had Town Watch...

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After reading up on the Urban Cohorts, they didn't replace the Town Watch. Rome still had the Town Watch for lighter duties. However, only Rome should have them in our game, for the Provincial Urban Cohorts did not start until Emperor Vespasian .

This leaves several options.

1) Take them out
2) Keep them in Rome, either as a separate unit or an upgrade of Town Watch (Kudos to whoever though of that idea first)

lets just have them be an upgrade of townwatch

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Originally Posted by ahowl11

lets just have them be an upgrade of townwatch

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Yeah i was kinda thinking that too,merging the two units together

Hey with the Vigiles (town watch), can we script them so that their presence lowers the damage done by disasters, since that their job (equally important as maintaining peace)?