HAMELEONA & ASGAROTH'S WORKSHOP

Here me and hameleona will make units so we don't use space in the other threads where we should discuss only about the factions and post maybe some symbols or banners.So we just post roaster,symbols,banners and unit list in other threads that ahowl will open for every faction and here will only be units done by hameleona and me....

And here will be the list for every faction that we will be doing.This first pos will be updated as we make the units for the factions.

Units highlited in green are made :

ROMANS

Pre Marian army :

Funditores
Leves
Acceseni
Rorarii
Velites
Equites
Hastati
Principes
Triarii


Post Marian army :

Town Watch
Early Legionary Cohort
Early First Legionary Cohort
Legionary Cohort
Legionary First Cohort
Roman Cavalry
Auxilia
Light Auxilia
Archer Auxilia
Ballistas

CARTHAGE

Town watch
Iberian infantry
Peltasts
Scutarii
Sacred Band of Tanit
Poeni Phalangites
Samnite Cavalry
Poeni swordsmen

Ahowl said that someone will make the UI's. So, should i do UI's for the new units or not?

Quote:

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Ahowl said that someone will make the UI's. So, should i do UI's for the new units or not?

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No...Some other guy is making the UI's for us...We will just make units.

Yeah do not worry about the UI's, just post the models and or textures for him to work with.. I will then send those to him, he makes the UI's and I will post them here

By the way, can I see what the Accensi and Rorarii look like?

https://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5158/rorarii.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Roarii (made a new model, actually. The cape didn't want to disappear 100% by texture)

https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1308/acsenii.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Acsenii (or whatever they are called) Made the new model, by removing the shield of the normal roman slinger (vanilla has it). Use this model for all shieldless slingers.

I'll upload the models and a preview when the romans are finished.

Very good. The Hastati and Principes should not be too hard should they? I know the Triarii will be the toughest. For the Triarii shield, give them the exact same one that the Armored Hoplites use for now.

Nice work hameleona.

https://img861.imageshack.us/img861/1570/hastati.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-22

hastatii

https://img806.imageshack.us/img806/6751/principi.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-22

principi

hahahaha,just three units eh hameleona ?

Very,very nice...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hameleona

https://img861.imageshack.us/img861/1570/hastati.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-22

hastatii

https://img806.imageshack.us/img806/6751/principi.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-22

principi

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very good

Well... had an argument with the girlfriend so, i woke up... and had to come my nerves. :lol:

PS: I realized, that i have forgotten the leg protector, so i am doing it now. It sucks making it, cuz it takes a whole lot of the texture,

Leg protector added!
https://img836.imageshack.us/img836/...goodorwhat.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Like it?

PS: hastati and principi use one and the same model. And since i don't have to do UI;s i'm quite productive.

asgaroth's acceseni

https://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6884...othslinger.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

And triarii? If i got it right that is what you want.
https://img190.imageshack.us/img190/5397/triariiv.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
PS: They don't have enough space for one leg protector. So you'll have two :D

PPS:
Late hastatii:

https://img855.imageshack.us/img855/...tehastatii.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-22

and late principii:
https://img819.imageshack.us/img819/...eprincipii.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-22

Velites... the shield big enough for ya?

https://img810.imageshack.us/img810/603/velites.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

and eqites

https://img651.imageshack.us/img651/551/equites.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Anything left?

All the units are DONE!
I will make the needed fixes (if there are any) and then upload all the models and textures.

And since i want to see the mod going forward i will do more units ONLY after the romans are fully implemented and tested! Inly then! Not cuz i'm a bad person, but cuz they may have a TON on problems.

ooh! cant wait to see the the post marian units. good work

The models and textures (they should work fine... but still they need testing)

roman_pre_marian_units.rar - 392.0 KB

@hameleona http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=426705&page=2
go to post 26 and look at the triarii, then download them. use their helmet on the model you already have, leave the crest white with the feathers being red. thats the helmet triarii wore.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/fac...ani_units.html
Look at the Camillan Equites helmet, is there any way you can put that on our equites head? if anything just use the original equites head/helmet. also get rid of the shoulder pads and add a cape.

for the Funditores, just use the original vanilla shield

Other than those few fixes, everything else is good.

@hameleona
We have access to many, many mods. They have given us permission to use their models. So if you need me to find the files for each model I will gladly give them to you from other mods.

When i googled crested helmet - that was what got out: http://www.a2armory.com/images/helme...blackcrest.jpg
When i googled ethruscan-corinthean hemet i got out that: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ungen_4330.jpg

so, next time, post pictures, please? Or check with google. :)

PS: Why do you make me do units 1:1 with those form other mods (EB mostly)? Just retexture theirs.

Crested helmet #39 is what I want
http://image58.webshots.com/758/7/63...5gFmPwj_ph.jpg
Etrusco-Corinthian Helmet and discussion
http://www.historum.com/ancient-hist...an-helmet.html

And I will provide pictures and resources next time.
Also I like EB's Idea with the units but they are ugly in my opinion. With vanilla representation they will look nice.

Plus I think our units should be unique

unique my...
You just want me to COPY the EB models for a triarii and equite. Go look at those units again and tell me i'm wrong. Just re-texture them and dont bother me with making new stuff, just to copy someone else's units.

2 words for hameleona's units: Simply awesome. Loved the pre-Polybian Triarii

I love the fact, that you love them, but the way it's going, ahowl wants them different. Actually, he wants EB triarii with vanilla color.

Hmm, wouldn't that reduce the mod's uniqueness? I mean, yeah you didn't add the feathers on the helmet, but does it really matter? They wouldn't hurt the game-play, and not even the historical accuracy. I don't really mind having the Triarii without them. Better then "copying" models form other mods.

Technically, i don't think that that was the helmet used by the triarii. It covers the ears and that is bad for a manipular formation. I would ask the reserchers to find the answer. But i don't think, that they used a decorative helmet - maybe something in the lines of the cresned helmet or something, that leaves the ears open, so that the solder can hear the commands. But i will wait for a research.

deleted. Not worth it.

You know, sometimes i think you don't really get it, do you?

If you wore the only one spending time like s*** - ok. But it takes a lot of time to do some stuff. Don't get pissed off cuz u make me do a model that does not need making! You want it to have the equipment from EB - fine, i don't really care. Just don't bother me - make someone that makes textures to just retexture the EB model with vanilla colors.

F**k man, now i remember why the s*** i left.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fXeat5elQa...20/HAT9017.jpg
https://media.photobucket.com/image/...H/SDC10177.jpg
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...=0&FORM=IDFRIR
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...31&FORM=IDFRIR

Need any more research?

No I get it, you believe you shouldn't do work that has already been done. But have you ever noticed the horrible quality of EB's units? Dull, dark shadows that look crappy on the battle field? I don't want that in HRTW. I want OUR version, which has the same idea similar to EB but better quality. At least I'm not asking for 30 units per faction, I listened, understood, and changed to your advice. I'm not that hard of a person to work with, I'm just tired of getting questioned. I will put in the work if you do. I understand that you hate modelling and it's frustrating, and it takes forever. I get it. But in the end result you have a bad ass unit that looks better than EB's, and everyone will know that hameleona made that awesome looking unit. Even though work sucks, in the end result it always pays off.

Man you want re-textured EB units. You don't need a modeler for that. That is what i'm trying to explain to you. No need to make another model, when it is the same model just with a new texture. I'm installing EB now, to show you what i mean.

Ok, I understand that. BUT getting permission from EB to use anything can be hell. One mod was postponed for a few months because the mod leader was waiting for EB to approve his request to use their models. I don't want to go through that.

Attachment 3475

We can use Diadochi Total War's Model. They just need to lose the shoulder pads. And this means that they would require a completely new texture right?

https://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2199/tripso.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Nah, here you go. Still i have no damn idea, who will be dumb enough to put a helmet with wholes in it on his head.

roman_pre_marian_units1.rar - 455.5 KB

That is freaking perfect! Beautiful unit. And honestly I don't either, but it's what they wore.
The equites are the only unit left for the Camillan/Polybian Armies.. everything was fine except the helmet, which i can find for you from another unit and the shoulder pads need to go. For the Polybian equites simply replace the breastplate with chainmail like what the principes have.. and then your done until i make the marian and socii unit rosters.. the marian army will at best have 5 units

Pfff, i'll just steel the vanila spartan helmet and use it with the typical plume. I steel like my version of the equites. Can't we use them as a bodyguard unit? I can add a chain-mail under the breаstplate like in the praetorians for the upgraded version.

PS: I'll have to make their shields bigger...

https://img23.imageshack.us/img23/68...idianhorse.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

https://img35.imageshack.us/img35/76...tesromani2.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-23

https://img542.imageshack.us/img542/...itesromani.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-23

https://img812.imageshack.us/img812/...tesromani2.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-23

All the units, with equites_romani as the final version of the equites, the equites.cas is the model for the heavier one.

That is fot today and tomorrow. I'll see what i can think of for the problematic legs... I may have to redo the whole unit, but since i don't test them in-game, i don't know how they will look.

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Still i have no damn idea, who will be dumb enough to put a helmet with wholes in it on his head.

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For decorative purpose....

You made excelent units.Sorry if I wasn't here to help you I have been from 6,30h to 22,30h away from home studying chemistry...I will help you whenever I can....

Just to give you a notice-my units were the funditores,not acceseni

I'm with Hameleona. There is no need to copy EB's models (If we do make models). In fact, I don't think even half these models need to be made.

That's one hell of a great unit there hameleona!

Great unit. Yes they should be a bodyguard unit and yes, do that for the upgraded version. Once you do that, you'll be done for this set of Roman Units.

When you're done, upload all the right files, and I will download them. I will then send them to Lanjane for UI's. We need someone to test these units in battle as well. Who would like to do the honors? I would, but I do not have time. If anything I have a few people in mind in regards to testing at TWC

Hmm, I liked the previous Triarii, but this is good too. The Equites are fine also, I love their helmet.

I have been trying to research for the allied troops or 'alae' that the Romans employed and it is tough. Does anyone know where I can possibly find information on Italian Units?
Anyways these units are going to be AOR, meaning they will have the rebel colored uniforms and they can be recruited by any faction when the right buildings have been built. If another faction were to invade Italy, these units would be available as mercenaries for the foreign army I figured we look at our regions and assign units according to that:

Rome - Latin Infantry
Arretium - Etruscan Hoplites
Ariminium - Umbrian Spearmen
Ancona - Piceni Skirmishers
Malventum - Samnite Spearmen, Samnite Swordsmen
Capua - Campanian Infantry, Campanian Cavalry (Already made, but could be edited if needed)
Tarentum - Tarentine Cavalry, Lucanian Skirmishers
Rhegium - Brutii Infantry

Just some thoughts. I'm not worried about Northern Italy until we make the Gauls.

Great units ! Nice job hameleona and Asgaroth !

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I'm against using and re-texturing EB models... this is a different mod, aiming to be one of the better mods out there, which has the unique "vanilla" feature... Most of the things we do should be our work... That is the true value of a mod !

I'm against it too. I want to make our own models and textures

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ahowl11

I'm against it too. I want to make our own models and textures

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Then you should avoid using EB as a reference for accuracy, since most of the times your requests are "like EB did"

well heck i can't help that they got it right
their units look like the pictures that you can google and images in books.

I'm not saying that they're not, but here you are again saying that the have done, then if it is done what's the point of doing that same thing from scratch? At least i think that's the point of the "thing" abput copying EB's units.

Anyways, units is not field :P but i think there are plenty of sources even more correct than EB (at some extent) so there's no need to use them as reference for a unit model.

Well can someone please point me in a direction where I won't use them as a reference? Didn't think it was that big of a deal

Paeninsula Italica could possibly be a good source for Italian Units.
here is a link to one of their forums, they have previews of each faction which contain previews of their units.
http://modtw.blogspot.com/2007/09/pa...a-italica.html

units made by KLA, we could make something similar but they are very similar to each other as it is
http://images22.fotosik.pl/129/052c7616284b0c11.jpg

Rise of the Nations Mod. Their Preview on the Roman Republic, they have many examples of Allied troops for us to use for ours
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=323578

I'll go on a long shot, saying this:
We don't need a thousand troops. Wat we should do is go the RTR way:

Itallic Spearmen
Itallic Swordsmen (but i think we have to research those - i'm not sore, that the sword was such a prised weapon at that time)

Samnite Warriors
Samnite Skirmishers

Itallic Cavalry

And MAYBE!:
Campanian Cavalry.

Those are 4 new models.
I don't think, that we should include a unit if it can not be recruited in more than two provinces FOR NOW! We all know, that when we have all the units we can just use the free DMB slots for more units. ;)
PS: I am even more in the way that we do the AOR units in the end, and first to go over the normal units of all factions. But you know that :)

I have played a little with the equites model (the one that will go for the praetorians)

At first i thought that we can use this for the early bodyguard:

https://img40.imageshack.us/img40/21...etoryearly.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-25

And one of this two for the late:

https://img189.imageshack.us/img189/...torynocape.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-25

https://img842.imageshack.us/img842/...aetorycape.jpg
By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-25

But now i'm more in the lines of using the normal equiti_romani for the early bodyguards, and the model from the last screen as the upgraded version. And maybe use the capeless one for the reformed cavalry (marian reforms did made the cavalry better)

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=323578

I like the source...Includeing to it romans had archers,which I thought before,so I think that we should make and give the archers to romans....



ROMAN ARCHERS (SAGITTARII)
Levy Archers

Origin:

Archers were a major part of most ancient countries war machines. The Romans didn't use them to the same extent as other ancient civilizations. The Roman sagittarii or archers were either formed out of allies or were trained members of the Legion. Roman archers were skirmishers deployed to soften up the enemy with their arrows. Being drawn from poorer classes, their equipment consisted of little more than a tunic and (rarely) a small wooden buckler.

Equipment:

The normal weapon of Roman archers was the composite bow, although Vegetius recommends training recruits "arcubus ligneis", with wooden bows, which may have been made in the northern European longbow tradition. It has been suggested that most Roman composite bows may have been asymmetric, with lower limbs shorter than the upper. Roman archers usually carried about forty arrows in their quivers.








http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attac...1&d=1266264445









And we should make accens different,like hameleona said :

Accensi (Singular: accensus) were light infantry in the armies of the early Roman Republic. They were eventually phased out by the time of second Punic war.
Accensi appear to have evolved from the old fifth class of the army under the Etruscan kings when it was reformed by Marcus Furius Camillus. The fifth class was made up of the poorest soldiers in the legion. They acted as skirmishers, screening their own formations and disrupting the enemy. It is likely that engagements with the Samnites and a crushing defeat at the hands of the Gauls taught the Romans the importance of flexibility and the inadequacy of the phalanx on the rough, hilly ground of central Italy.

In the early Camillan system of organisation of the 3rd and 4th centuries BC, men were sorted into classes according to wealth, the accensi being the poorest. Accensi were armed with javelins which they used to hurl stones at enemy formations. They fought as skirmishers, wearing only a tunic and sometimes carrying a small round shield. Their role as a kind of supernumerary soldier was to fill the places of those who were killed or disabled by their wounds in battle.

In this type of legion, the 900 accensi formed 15 maniples, military units of 60 men each, which were in turn part of 15 ordi, larger units made up of a maniple of triarii, a maniple of rorarii and a maniple of accensi. The accensi stood in the last line of the legion, behind the front line of hastati, the second line of principes, the third of triarii and the fourth of rorarii. In a pitched battle, the leves, javelin armed skirmishers who were attached to maniples of hastati, would form up at the front of the legion and harass the enemy with javelin fire and cover the advance of the hastati, spear armed infantry. If the hastati failed to break the enemy, they would fall back and let the principes, heavier and more experienced infantry, take over. If the principes did not break them, they would retire behind the triarii, who would then engage the enemy in turn — hence the expression rem ad Triarios redisse, "it has come to the triarii" — signalling an act of desperation. The equites, cavalrymen, were used as flankers and to pursue routing enemies. The rorarii, the poorer reserve soldiers, and accensi, the least dependable troops armed with slings, would be used in a support role, providing mass and supporting wavering areas of the line.

By the time of the later Polybian system of the 2nd century BC, accensi had been phased out. Velites, light skirmishers, would now fulfill skirmishing duties and troops that would usually have gone into the accensi would now be excluded from service.

Equipment:

They were the poorest men in the legion, and could not afford much equipment. They did not wear armour or carry shields, and their usual position was part of the third battle line. They fought in a loose formation, supporting the heavier troops. Later on they were most probably equipped with slings and perhaps a small shield.



http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attac...7&d=1266259076

http://ezinearticles.com/?Archers-in...rmy&id=1436103

and here is where they got the information.

I still search for some evidence that they used ROMAN archers and not the auxiliary before the Marian reforms.

Quote:

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But now i'm more in the lines of using the normal equiti_romani for the early bodyguards, and the model from the last screen as the upgraded version. And maybe use the capeless one for the reformed cavalry (marian reforms did made the cavalry better)

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Sound great.

Quote:

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I still search for some evidence that they used ROMAN archers and not the auxiliary before the Marian reforms.

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We can maybe make a mob ?

You know,like roman hunters and peasants deployed as archers,not pure archers just leavy archers ?


Use the peasant model,disable horde formations,give them just a hastati helmet without the red thing on it ?

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-roman-ar...17.html?cat=37

What if we just did Allied units for the Romans?
Allied Hastati
Allied Principes
Allied Triarii
Allied Skirmishers
Allied Cavalry


Same models just different textures.
We can worry about the AOR units after we finish each faction and know how many DMB slots we have.

Quote:

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Allied Hastati
Allied Principes
Allied Triarii
Allied Skirmishers
Allied Cavalry

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Why ?...I mean I don't get the point...

Quote:

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Same models just different textures.

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didn't we said that the units will have vanilla colors ?

roman_pre_marian_units.rar - 624.2 KB

the roman pre-marian units. If you want archers - use the vanilla model and texture - they are not bad.

I will test the units hameleona...In a few days...Nice job !

If there are problems, scream aloud. :lol: i have no idea if what i said mean anything :lol:

In that time i'm going to screw with my ancestors for fun.

I understood everything completely,haha...

No problem friend...Maybe I will just need your help with putting some units,but I will get with you in contact when I do that...

I will be surprised if there are no CTD's - i did made all the units as good as i can, but sometimes the models just don't work.

I will send them to Lanjane as well for UI's.. Let me see if I got this right..
Hastati (2) Camillan/Polybian
Principes (2) Camillan/Polybian
Triarii (2) Camillan/Polybian
Rorarii
Accensi
Leves
Equites (2) Camillan/Polybian
Velites
Funditores

Anything else?

can't download it, my school blocked the site

Don't worry i have forgotten about the late triarii anyway :lol:

https://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3908/triariilate.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

here they are.
And i have forgotten to add the polibean equites texture (they use the same model as the camillian). And the equites had a strange problem, so i had to do them again...

Try from here:
http://www.2shared.com/file/ATQbskyK...ian_units.html

that is the updated archive, i think with everything in it :)

Good work, but my damn school blocks all file sharing sites!

I just saw this thread,and jawdroped...

Nothing unusal,at least when hameleona is making the units...:P

Why thank you Skull. I always do my best. ;)

Sorry for not being active yesterday guys, but school demanded so :(. Hameleona, your units are as amazing as ever.

Ok so now we must work on the Alae or socii units that the Romans used. The examples that I have listed should be enough to make some decent units.
The Romans had 'Allied Legions' I'm pretty sure it consisted of the same troop types such as Hastati and Principes, but that they were just Italian troops, not Roman. I suggest that we have those simple re-skins plus some AOR units for Italy.

Allied Troops (In rebel colors) (Polybian Reforms only)
Velites
Hastati
Principes - needs rebel texture
Triarii - needs rebel texture

AOR Units for Italy (In rebel colors)
Etruscan Hoplites
Umbrian Hillmen
Piceni Skirmishers
Latin Infantry
Samnite Spearmen
Samnite Swordsmen
Campanian Cavalry
Lucanian Skirmishers
Tarentine Cavalry
Brutii Infantry

Post Marian Units: (All Units stay vanilla, as I cannot see many issues with them. What units could we add or edit?)
Town Watch
Early Legionary Cohort
Early First Legionary Cohort
Legionary Cohort
Legionary First Cohort
Roman Cavalry
Auxilia
Light Auxilia
Archer Auxilia
Ballistas

I would do it like RTR did...If we play as Rome and the enemy conqueres our land then they can build only few types of units,like peltasts,spearmen and cavalry...But three units maximum,not all army...

And I do not like the fact that you change faction colors-some troops like rebels,it is like the some other mods do.It is realistic,yes but our aim is to make it historical and vanilla,so I say we drop things that other mods use...

Hameleona and me can make quite unique units without other mod's as sources...

Quote:

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Town Watch
Early Legionary Cohort
Early First Legionary Cohort
Legionary Cohort
Legionary First Cohort
Roman Cavalry
Auxilia
Light Auxilia
Archer Auxilia
Ballistas

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The Auxilia units should be AoR. The rest are fine. Also the Legionary First Cohort should look the same as the Legionary Cohort (except it should bear an Eagle statue or whatever it is called in English) , have the same numbers, but have higher stats.

Quote:

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The Auxilia units should be AoR.

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Agreed

Suggestions :

Baeleric slingers
Cretean archers
Syrian archers
Foderati infantry

I'm just saying if the troops are AOR troops that they should be rebel colors.. Just like mercenaries are green. Unless you want to make 20 textures for each unit to match the faction colors

Quote:

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I'm just saying if the troops are AOR troops that they should be rebel colors.. Just like mercenaries are green. Unless you want to make 20 textures for each unit to match the faction colors

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I didn't understand,sorry...You are right.

HY THERE ALL I HAVE MADE NEW SKINS FOR OUR UNITS TO MAKE THE GAME EVEN BETTER :


HAMELEONA-Can you please make screens like the last time ?

The units I skinned are :

Principes,Hastati,Equites romani...

What is new ?

Principes-new gladius texture,new chainmail texture,new bracelet,new shield texture.

Hastati-new gladius texture,new shield texture,new bracelet.

Equites romani :new gladius texture,new shield texture,new belt texture.

https://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8422/gladiusk.th.jpg
https://img593.imageshack.us/img593/...nijulii.th.jpg
https://img846.imageshack.us/img846/...ijulii2.th.jpg
https://img535.imageshack.us/img535/...juliitg.th.jpg
https://img577.imageshack.us/img577/...esjulii.th.jpg

no words... i simply have no words...

speechless

I don't like the idea of the AOR units to be in rebel color-scheme. Let's use ether one of the color-schemes from BI or Alex, or just make them... aaa... colorful? :D
With Many-many-MANY colors :d