Endless Space: a 4X game that will revive and possibly redefine the entire genre.
Special thanks to Lady Frog for pointing out this remarkable game to me. :bow:
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Endless Space: a 4X game that will revive and possibly redefine the entire genre.
Special thanks to Lady Frog for pointing out this remarkable game to me. :bow:
Played 50ish hours of the alpha/beta. It's promising, and quite challenging, but currently very unbalanced.
Have you played since it went beta? What I experienced so far was very promising, but didn't get as far as to ascertain any major unbalances. Shame that a reviewer can't devote so many hours to a single game... Especially one this good.
The racial boosts/penalties are not entirely balanced. Currently tonnage is king in warfare, which means Pilgrims are at a severe disadvantage. The Sophons are similarly very difficult to play due to their non-warfare focus. Horatio and United Empire tend to blitz my games.
Pleased to hear you liked the game.
I haven't played since it went beta (work, also days-long migraine) but I'm quite eager to see what has been added. The game is quite smooth an polished considering that it isn't finished yet. Comparing the Endless Space alpha build to Sword of the Stars II's retail build would be hilarious if only it weren't so heart-breaking. Even after 6 months of continuous patching, SOTSII is less polished.
Now that all(?) of the content is in, I expect they will begin to balance it. I'm holding my breath a little - it would be easy for them to accidentally make the factions feel less unique than they currently do. That's one of the main things I like about the Alpha version: each race feels unique in a stronger way than, for example, in the Civilisation series.
I'm not entirely sold on the exterior design of the combat system. I only play SP, so I don't like the timers. When I want to start a battle, I don't want to wait for a countdown to finish before it begins. Nor do I want to be rushed through checking circumstances by that same counter if the enemy attack me. I hope that they introduce a toggle for that timer. Not keen on having a limited period to select my tactics cards either. The time limit there is so brief I can't check what's available to me, and it's not always feasible to memorise the options outside of combat.
A big plus one from me.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Additionally, as all ships move at the same speed small ships/kinetic weapons are useless once you have access to large, high HP, torpedo carrying ships. Tonnage+HP boosts+torpedoes/lasers = instant victory in combat as the AI will usually sink almost all its tonnage into lasers/kinetics.
IMO combat needs a big revamp to improve the game --- ships having their differing speeds come into play would make weapons other than torpedoes become useful and prevent tonnage being so important.
From everything I've read & heard, apparently the combat is very "meh". In addition to the questionable mechanics, the limited camera views has also been a consistent complaint.
That being said, Endless Space otherwise appears quite promising. And I already know from my experience with Armada 2526 that I can hate the combat system but still love the game. :yes:
Yes. I don't exactly like it and IMO it's the weakest part of the package. Aside from the irritations already mentioned my Psychonaut and myelf, the battles themselves don't quite feel like they offer anything to me. I barely get to influence anything, making it like auto-resolve, yet I have to watch it play out, making it like a standard RTS-style battle. Once the "Oooh! Pretty!" wears off there isn't much point to playing them as far as I can see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
Fortunately the rest of the package is more than good enough to compensate. Skipping battles also helps to make it one of the pacier 4X games I've played, and that's no bad thing.
It's kind of a shame we can't mix Endless Space's 4X section with a hybrid Sins/SotS1 combat model. :drools:
EDIT: Rock, Paper, Shotgun has a nice piece about the beta version.
I'm actually getting kinda tired of playing MoO2 ripoffs lately, especially since I didn't like Gal Civ II. This one seems a bit more faithful, so I'll take a look at youtube videos of the gameplay more before deciding.
The release makes me a little uneasy. It's been pushed forward by an entire month. The game was in good shape for an alpha and then beta, but for a gold edition? I don't know. I realise that it was financially motivated but I kind of wonder if it might be counter-productive in the long run. The developers said they wanted proper reviews and a metacritic score to help boost sales as they need the game to be profitable now; a month more work would have meant more likelihood of glowing reviews. Do 4X gamers care about metacritic anyway?
I need to spend some time with the current version. :looks at her schedule and list of other games she's trying to play in Not Enough Time each week, weeps:
They shouldn't unless they want to contribute to the downfall of honest journalism and publishing.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
The unfortunate reality is that many gamers still cling to metacritic as if it means something.. and so do publishers. :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae
Endless Space was fantastic for what I played in the Alpha and Beta. The only hang up i had about it back then was how easy it was to stalemate with another faction. It was quite easy to expand and become powerful, only for a faction to do so at the other end of the map leading you both into a huge intergalactic war in the end game. A war that had no end as you were both perfectly matched. Balance was a little off too, but then again that was pre-release. It also had the misfortune of being not quite what I was looking for, but that's a subjective hang up.
Honestly, the game ran better in alpha than most games do when they are launched. I was surprised it wasn't released months ago.
My current game is developing...oddly... I've been running a fairly small galaxy with 4 opponents, two of them being Pilgrims. They are breeding like bunnies and have expanded a lot. I usually concentrate on development in these games, so I eventually have to pick up the paste with military build-up, but these guys, once let to develop unchecked, spread like plague. But soon enough, here comes first peace offer; I accept it, hell, I can't even fight a war yet! But soon enough, I get peace offers from all opponents, then treaties to cross into each others territory, so we end up all living in a fine and dandy peaceful universe. Wondering where that will take me...
But the game is simply awesome, soundtrack is pure gold, and I am looking forward to giving it more time today. I might even get used to the combat being more of a luck thing, even though I was kind hoping to have some Sins of Solar Empire in my Endless Space...
After watching a few Let's Plays of the game, I decided to dive in. So far, it's doing a mediocre job. Not fantastic, not horrible, just... mediocre.
Pros:
+You construct one building per star system at a time, rather than one per planet. All planets in the system you colonized add to the total resource count, which means that the planets in that system will collectively build. This cuts down on your attention to macro extensively, which I really like.
+Has a more MoO2 feel than Gal Civ 2.
Cons:
-Combat is rock-paper-scissors, with virtually no control over the battle. I long for the days when you could actually control ships in combat, like in Star Wars Rebellion or, of course, MoO2.
-Graphics options are pathetic. You can only set pre-designed quality with no customizing.
-THIS:
This attitude REALLY pisses me off. This is the kind of thing that makes me regret buying the game in the first place. Need I remind them how successful Frozen Synapse, or other similar games, have been simply because you can go to bed during the middle of a multiplayer game and then pick up right where you started in the morning? A 4X space sim takes hours to complete. I simply don't have that much time to invest if I want a multiplayer game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplitude Forums
Ok, after playing several hours worth, I have come to the conclusion that this is a bad game and you should feel bad for playing it.
Combat is a slog. Pick your three cards, take a shower, go to the mall, go out on a date, then come back and hope the combat will eventually end. The card system is cute the first three or four times, but after that you just want to autoresolve everything to spare yourself the hassle of watching a TV program in-game. At least with a real TV, you have a remote control.
The AI cheats. A LOT. Early in the game when I barely had two combat ships to my name, the AI had ten (and no, I'm not exaggerating) fleets full of combat ships. It all comes down to a stalemate, even if you have superior ships and tech. Apparently, from what I've heard, this was a big problem in the Alpha, and it looks like it still persists on release.
Game design is horrible. "War has been declared on you." Yeah, ok. Are you going to tell me who declared war on me? No? Well :daisy: you too. If you're in an alliance, and the ally declares peace on an enemy, you receive NO popup or notification at all. You're left wondering why your invasion of a planet was halted all of a sudden. And let's not forget the bug that prevents your ships from ever moving out of the former-AI's system (even to a friendly or allied system) until the cease-fire period is up. And how the :daisy: can I or the AI attack each other's fleets if there's a cease fire? You can, which means the cease-fire is bugged too.
:daisy: this game.
Harsh words, but I can understand the sentiment - to some point.
The battle is simply what it is; it is a disappointment for me as well, I was hoping for a more of "hands-on" fight style. But on the bright side, it certainly does not last too long, perhaps two minutes tops, plus it can be auto-resolved.
Define "early in the game"? What turn is it? What faction is it? Difficulty setting and number of opposing factions?
Point to the fact that "War has been declared on you!" is not very informative; I declared war on my neighbor and get that message. Well, should be easily fixed, that omission does not make the entire game design "horrible".
But I guess you made up your mind, sorry you didn't enjoy this one.
Might like thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae
http://www.strategyprime.net/starbase-orion-review/
Oh wait you can't play it muhahaha revenge.
Thus far, Endless Space is sounding a lot like a Paradox title: It'll be good some day, but only once it's fully patched and the AI receives major improvements. I think this one is going on my "will buy -- eventually" list.
On the other hand, there's always StarDrive and Legends of Pegasus to look forward to... ~D
Kekvit isn't the only one reporting poor AI combined with massive cheating - I'm quite concerned by some of the other player reports I've read tonight. So far it sounds like the basic, incomplete AI from the alpha with a few tweaks for new features plus a boatload of new cheats. It's now getting 50% resource bonuses on normal difficulty! Gah!
The two main things I wanted to see improved for release were the AI and the battles. The AI in the alpha was fine for an alpha. I appreciate that the hands off battle card thingy is a design choice and will not change. All the same, I wanted a reason to engage in the battles myself rather than auto-ing them all. I can't see any indication that either has been addressed yet.
It really does look like they pushed this out too soon. Such a shame, it's a slick game in other aspects and I do like a lot of what it offers. I hope that they are able to patch it to completion.
Well that's just silly...Quote:
These are the suggestions/disccusions that the development team has already looked at and have decides are either unfeasible to implement or go against their vision of the game.
This means not only have these ideas already been suggested at least once but they have been rejected so please refrain from making yet another post on the same topic.
Play by email - Play remotely X Come on! It's freaking 2012!
The Endless Space review is now up, share your opinions. In short, good game with some bugs and incomplete features, but will with highest probability get fixed and improved very fast. Cheers!
So how much were you paid by Amplitude Studios for four stars? :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Voigtkampf
But seriously, and I mean no offense, but this is the reason why I don't trust reviews. You need to work on your scoring system a bit. If a review is mostly negative (and it was; I counted), then it should reflect that in the score. A good way of measuring score is start at 100%, remove all sentences (or whole statements) that are neutral (or just those that give background, such as the introduction), and then count how many parts are negative about the game. Subtract that percentage from the 100%, and there's your final score.
I have gone through your review and did just this:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
+ means positive
- means negative
I have taken out the sentences or statements I felt you were neutral or didn't contribute to a positive or negative feeling of the game. I have also removed summaries of statements or paragraphs, as they were simply summarizing what you have already stated.
We are left with 17 out of 30 parts that are negative, leaving the final score at 44%. On a five star rating system, we're looking at 2.2, or two stars if you round down.
Please don't take this as flaming or trolling, but rather as constructive criticism.
Sadly, nothing. I would have easily given them five stars if they were paying me. :on_panda:
On the other hand, I just might ask how much the opposition is paying you to troll the game? :on_groucho: But I am jesting, of course. I honestly give the benefit to all Org members of not being trolls, and I treat all comments seriously and try to respond to them in kind. :on_angel:
Though this may seem as madness, there is method to it, yet to be revealed. :on_hypno:
There is a solid reason why one should not trust commercial reviews; I've been reviewing games and writing IT articles for a decade, and I know the drill first hand. You do not piss people off that advertise with your paper/portal. Nobody is advertising at mine. But I also hate writing bad articles. If there is a game below 3 stars (I should really change the rating to 100 score, but cba atm, too much hustle), I simply do not write about it in order not to offend the devs and publishers I like. Gee, you did a booboo with this particular game? Lets not talk about it... Why waste time on it if its that bad, anyway? For that reason the Sword of Stars 2 is still sitting and waiting on my hard drive; if it ever gets stable and playable, I'll review it, not before.
Opinions are like... "rear ends". Everyone has one and thinks out of his/hers there is only perfume coming out. To this day I recall a good friend, a long time gamer, who commented Battlefield: Vietnam game to be bulls***. When I asked him why, he said "no propellers". :on_huh: See, Battlefield 1942 had airplanes with propellers, and Vietnam had jet planes, and he had the feeling those flew too fast. Ergo, to him the game was BS, case closed... :on_bird:
One can't make a review on that premiss.
Alas, to the method. It is not an "add and subtract" method. Ever heard of the phrase "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts"? Same thing goes with games and reviews. Gameplay is the most important factor, the fun factor of the game, and everything else is secondary or even tertiary. Good gameplay will make up for sub-par graphic, but not the other way around. If I had written ten sentences about how good the UI and soundtrack are, and only one sentence like "there are still some bugs and incomplete features that need fixing, and AI needs some balancing", would you then say, wow, cool, you got your scoring system well under control? :on_cheer: Simply said, the fun factor of the Endless Space game is for me (and most of players that played the game) is far greater than the problems the game has.
Oh, before I go on, I'll do something I never actually like doing; refer to the Metacritic and readers opinion on the game. General readers opinion is at this moment 84%. There are three official reviews from the portals Metacritic works with ratings of 90% (Game Revolution), 80% (IGN) and 70% (GameSpy), respectively. It needs a fourth review to have an official review score, but you can easily guess the middle of it. I really hate using this argument (it always reminds me of that "eat nectar, millions of bees can't be wrong" saying), but in order to prove me not being too partial (either too positive or too negative), I am reaching out for this tool as well. On the official Amplitude forums, the fans have mostly rated the game with 8 out of 10 (which would be consistent with my 4 out of 5 rating system).
With Endless Space, I have had a great time. There were two issues for me with this game; the card combat and the half-done features and AI balancing. I have thrown the latter in the same box. In the first case, card combat, we are talking about something I didn't like and something I perceived (correctly, if I may be so impertinent) that other 4x players wouldn't like much either. With the latter we are talking about either bad game design decisions, omissions or incomplete features. For each of those, and in comparison with nice graphics, great UI, excellent soundtrack and overall great gameplay (which is by far the most important part) I took away half a point. My and general experience with Amplitude dev team so far tells that they will definitely iron those bugs out and will keep improving on the game.
Now, you said "this is why I don't believe reviews". The hot alternative is to comment on few items one has either liked or disliked and that's it. Let me analyze your "review" of the game.
All combats being on a timer and lasting maybe 60 seconds, 2 minutes tops, with preparation phase included... You must be really fast to get all those things done. :on_charm:Quote:
Combat is a slog. Pick your three cards, take a shower, go to the mall, go out on a date, then come back and hope the combat will eventually end.
The longest game I played came around 280 turns, and I haven't seen a single AI stack with ten full fleets. Or do you mean ten fleets x 5 ships? How many CP per fleet? What turn was that on? What ship classes were those? Try spamming scouts and you just might realize that you can easily match those fleet sizes, and AI loves spamming scouts.Quote:
The AI cheats. A LOT. Early in the game when I barely had two combat ships to my name, the AI had ten (and no, I'm not exaggerating) fleets full of combat ships. It all comes down to a stalemate, even if you have superior ships and tech.
So, basically because of couple of incomplete features, design flaws and some bugs, as obnoxious as they are, you declare the entire game design as horrible? :on_idle:Quote:
Game design is horrible. "War has been declared on you." Yeah, ok. Are you going to tell me who declared war on me? No? Well you too. If you're in an alliance, and the ally declares peace on an enemy, you receive NO popup or notification at all. You're left wondering why your invasion of a planet was halted all of a sudden. And let's not forget the bug that prevents your ships from ever moving out of the former-AI's system (even to a friendly or allied system) until the cease-fire period is up. And how the can I or the AI attack each other's fleets if there's a cease fire? You can, which means the cease-fire is bugged too.
this game.
But I can't really comment on your opinion; it is yours, I respect it in so far that I don't provoke you or label you as a troll. You hate the game, you dumped all over it, your prerogative. But you can not, in all earnest, think for a second that such posting has more credibility than all the reviews? That you saying "flower this game" is somehow more legitimate than a majority of reviews and ratings you can come across online?
For the record: It is a nice, calm Sunday morning, I got time and felt like typing. This was not meant to be a raging reply and counter-attack :on_furious:, just a thorough explanation, because I simply felt like it. If I were to be snide and condescending, I would have done it in one, dry, witty sentence. :on_groucho:
TL;DR
The reviews are not based on how many like and how many dislike sentences there are in a review.
Gameplay is the most important factor.
If the developers are quick to respond and community friendly, it is to be expected that they will address the bugs and other issues ASAP.
The alternative to reviews are opinions.
The card combat cost the game ten percent of its overall rating (half a star), and bugs, incomplete features and imbalances cost the overall rating another ten percent of the games rating (another half a star). Overall, 4 out of 5 is very good score; if you would like to give it 0 out of 5 stars, feel free to do so on Metacritic. (Sadly, I don't have that option on my portal, but you can always comment on the review).
Think that about sums it up...:on_hot:
So you sidestep the issue by criticizing a subjective post (at no point in time have I ever stated it was a review)? You should run for public office.
I'm not even going to point out the blatant errors in your post. I'm done with you. gg no re
Voigtkampf, it seems like your review of Endless Space was an extension of your preview, in that you had to read both to get your complete thoughts on the game. I hadn't actually read the preview until after the review, so some concepts about how the game played were not readily apparent from just reading the review.
Anyway, thanks for the information about the game!
CR
Personally I dont think I would mind as long as they are fun to watch, a minor annoyance with SOASE for me is that the ships just sit still while exchanging fire.
CR, indeed, in the final review I concentrated on the new info, and should have pointed out the suggestion to read the preview first. I'd also suggest official Endless Space forum; the players there are not fanbois and do not hesitate to criticize the bad sides of the game and point out the good ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
GC, the strategic game is challenging, but I would have personally liked to have had more control over the battles if I actually decided to run them.
Greyblades, the combat itself is not that interesting. Here is a video of it; two fleets of cca 4-5 ships (which is usually the cap for fleets, depending on their size, there are no 30, 50 or 100 ships fleets in this game ) fly on parallel course, on rails, and exchange fire until one goes ka-boom. It actually gets old rather fast. All you can do, as you can see in the video, is to pick three strategic postures for three phases (long range, medium range and "melee" phase) for the fight and hope you made the best choice possible.
You can also check out the Out of Eight review of Endless Space, latest one to have appeared. I'd recommend everyone to read as much reviews about this game as they can and then form their own, educated opinion. Cheers!
Endless Space patch 1.0.8, minor fixes and they still have a long way to go with AI, but the will is there.
I've accepted the fact that the combat is the way it is; pick three strategies and roll with it. Overall, I've been revisiting it a lot these last several days and I'm starting an Endless Space guide now. A lot of material now waiting for the adition.
I am betting heavily that this game will be further improved upon by both developers and fans through their mods. The depth of ES basically guarantees that the game will have a lot of missing features and later additions.
As for the interface being wonky, I would agree that selecting fleet could be followed by a "pop up" when mousing over them, same for the hangar clicking, but otherwise, as for planet management and the rest of the game, I found the Interface to be simply marvelous. Considering some other 4x games I've been testing recently, this one is the charm.
Little to no time for MP's, wish I could change that.
Bought it last week.
First it is a pretty, nice interface 4x strategy space game. Not a tactical one at all. I think they could have kept the battles even more abstract like Civ and it would work just as well. The cards allow for some tweaking, essentially it reminds be of Star Trek where all you do as a captain is say "shields up", "fire torpedoes". Keeping it abstract is fine for me, at least I understand how the cards interact with my ships designs.
Ship design is fairly straight forward. Just remember to scroll down the list of support modules.
My first real game is as Amobea, kind of a medium level setting with 3 opponents. I thought I had set the setting to easy or something else was broken when I started. The reason being I could see every star system and planet. Turns out to be the racial ability of the little squishy guys.
So I quickly teched up for wormholes and snared a few choke points on the map. Something I've learned is that food is king as it determines population growth, population size is the real dominant factor in output of yet more food, industry, research and dust(half currency half steroid).
It's best to get a good system with plenty of population potential. To first grow the farming planet to near max and then overflow to the planets with lesser food productivity. Biggest mistake I made in my best system was to colonize all the planets quickly. Whilst my second best system it was easy to expand because I grew the population on the farm world and then overflowed. I'm still new to the game but having a surplus of 120 food seems to make the system populate very quickly.
For my ship naming convention I based it on life forms. The game calls a colony ship a propogator for the Amobea, I call my fast colony ship a virus and the double colony ship testes ;).
As for my attack ships I have Tcell & Phage with a repair ships called red cell.
Having fun, plenty to learn and it is really a strategy game only. It would be interesting to see a TW space 4x
Fancy ship names, Papewaio. Glad you are having fun with the game. Amoeba are incredibly fun but somewhat easy to play with exactly because they see the entire galaxy from the beginning.
You may find some neat tricks and tips in this guide here. It is still work in progress and I should force myself to get it done and over with these days, but there is simply sooo much info on this game...
I read this thread and your guide first, then bought the game.
Amobea are good as a starter race. The map I was playing had another Amobea, Avian and Human. The Amobea-pc strain allied with the Avian and invaded the human race. I on the other hand raced to all the main population potential centers and put outposts on them. My biggest threat has been pirates so far. Anyhow after figuring out that Amobea make a 4X title into a 3X title and they drop my favourite X of eXploration I've started again.
New game is the Horatio. Largest galaxy (two colliding) with eight players and the rest of the settings to normal. Again racing for wormholes with a side dish of Redsang since one of the 3 inhabitable planets out of 7 star systems has Redsang... so might as well make the most of that cup of tea.
It would be strange if I find a Horatio-pc player. Given that the Horatio are all a clone of their leader.
Are the copies level zero or 1:1 duplicates? I assume the dust cost is expensive. I was happy enough with the food boost.
I still haven't understood how those influence circles work yet. It is weird seeing NPC's with massive ones when mine seen insignificant, even when we both own the same amount of planets.
As GC said, there is a huge number of influence increasing improvements/buildings that will help you establish your dominance.
But what does the influence actually do?
It stops others setting up outposts in your influence.
Does it cause others to change allegiance over time?
Ive been thinking of getting this after I saw a few Let's Plays. There was a great sale on it and the expansion Disharmony a few days ago which I missed, but next time its on sale Ill get it. Anyone still playing? Is the expansion worth it? What about mods?
This game is extremely confusing...
But Im slowly understanding it.
So I played about 5 hours so far (really sucks you in), and I do think in a way its kind of like Civ5 in space. I seem to have it mostly figured out.
I just started-and ended- my first war in the game as the United Empire. I crushed their fleets (Pilgrims) with my fleets, but sieges frustrate me a bit. Even with 8 siege-dedicated battleships, some planets would have taken 60+ turns to capture. Kind of annoying if you ask me, but okay. I ended up taking their offer of cease-fire so I can plan again how to better capture their planets. Everything else though is going great. I had an excess of 25,000 dust (before I squandered 90% of it on the war), and halfway through the tech trees (seems pretty bloated to me).
Also the strength indicator seems a bit lopsided. I had a small-ish fleet of 2 combat-oriented battleships and 2 dreadnoughts facing against a fleet of 10 destroyers and 2 dreadnoughts. The numbers showed it as them having around 3100 strength while I was at about 2600. Yet I crushed them, losing nobody. So I agree, I have no clue what makes a balanced fleet.
EDIT: Also, the tonnage limit annoys the hell out of me. I have to basically specialize my ships and fleets, which I cant even do so well anyways because I can only put 12 ships in a fleet and heavier ships count for more. And why does a battleship have as much tonnage capacity as a cruiser? If a cruiser has 200 and a dreadnought has 400, the logical thing is to have the battleships have 300.
:wall:
See? I wasnt aware of that. The fact that each fleet has a cap of 12 is also very, very annoying.
Also that 12 isnt a simple number, because apparently heavier ships take up more than 1 slot.
Well, I guess I just changed history.
https://i.imgur.com/fapA2yF.png
I won my first game! Felt pretty good. I want to try for a conquest victory next, though Im not sure whats the difference between a cruiser and a battleship. Though making the dust is still a challenge.
https://i.imgur.com/wQQ5oEu.jpg