"RTW Nostalgy" RPG game

Ave,

I guess just like many others I picked my old copy of RTW once I heard R2TW was announced. It brought back many good memories of all the crazy battles I fought and all the interesting developments on campaign map. However, playing it alone is not exactly the same as playing it with other people in a RPG setting.

So, I thought perhaps there are people who are interested in a almost Vanilla RTW rpg game?

If you want to play and are interested in it then I ask these things from you:

1) What faction shall we use? I personally would like to pick a Roman faction just because the game is called Rome Total War.

2) Each player can propose 3 rule/objectives/modding suggestions. With modding suggestions I mean we can give units to factions(like archers for Carthage), change some units stats/abilities or something similar. Basically easy stuff. No new provinces or something like that.


Other than that basic rpg game rules from previous games will be used (each player have an in-game character; each player fights it's own battles: etc).

I would say go with Julii for the classic red, even if it isn't technically historical.
Plus, I always found fighting phalanxes a little tiring.

As for rules, I think we could reasonably rule out pvp. It can get messy rules wise, and I think competing for senate offices should provide a fun way for players to compete against each-other as well as the computer.

With that in mind, I would definitely say ignore in game offices and use our own system for allocations offices. We could figure out a system to determine the senatorial influence of each character, and use that to determine who gets offices, following the cursus honorum of course.

It could be the influence stat (if I am correctly remembering that being a thing) * prestige. Prestige would come from winning battles, capturing provinces, holding games, etc... This score would then essentially be the number of senatorial votes a player is able to cast in determining who gets offices. It isn't exactly historical, but I think it could be fun if others do as well.

The main possible problem I can see with this is that we will only have control over one family of the faction, but perhaps we could simply ignore the others in terms of offices, or simply let the game's decision for offices to those factions stand, and vote on the rest.

What do you guys think?

I myself like the Julii as well.

And I agree that PvP should be left out.

As for the senatorial offices I like the idea. Perhaps we could give points for every battle fought + checking characters Influence + the factions standing in the Senate?

Also, one thing to consider is army sizes. Normal characters could recruit only lower tier troops and could command a small number of them. But a Consul(don't have to be FL) could a full stack army?

Always like the Julii myself.

As far as offices I could see a bonus in troops for the Consul. Maybe full stack versus a half stack for lower offices?

And perhaps characters without offices can't have more than 1/4 stack and can't recruit mercenaries? It would make the offices really important and desirable.

Sounds good to me
no office = quarter stack no mercs
random office = half stack
consul = full stack

How should we do finances for the game" I like the personal finances system I tried for LotD, but it definitely adds a lot of work on everyone's part.

I think we should keep the game simple and not have personal finances. Although, if people want it then it can be implemented.

However, any other ideas?

I like personal finances in general but I agree with keeping it simple for this game. I'd suggest keeping it fairly light for this one and leave some of the more complicated stuff for a RTW2 rpg if we do one when it comes out.

Well we do have a sucession game in EB for the Romanii but I always keep forgetting it and the others I think have given up on it. I'd play this if it were not overly complicated with personal finances, estates, upkeep and so on.

Why don't we just go a conquerin' and use the faction's finances? Just have a set number of victories and settlement captures to get to an office. The Roman Republic is a highly militaristic society, and any advancement in political office was closely tied with military success, unlike later on when offices could be bought.

For the stacks - make it so everyone starts with a halfstack that costs up to 6800 florins (go to custom battle to compose it then prestent it here). Oh, and also in RTW we can always keep one governor in a city of our choice and we can all choose the Enslave option when we conquer a city. This will bloat the governed city's population considerably and we can have the Marian reforms kick in in about 15-20 turns from the start if we all do this.

I had some thoughts on the current proposals..

1) "Cursus Honorum" and ranks

First of all, I think that the person who ends the turn should be a "treasurer" or something like that. Electable office within the family and he will stay in office as long as he wants or someone else brings up he candidacy. If there is a vacant office he will receives his powers(unless there is a Consul present).

Faction Leader - Should be treated as a regular character. I would allow him to call meetings if needed. No bonuses to the army size. This may change if Civil War is started.

Faction Heir - It would be just a honor being chosen as a heir.

To gain one of the republican offices player first have to meet the required terms. High enough Senate standing + characters influence + certain number of victories. If these are met then I'll throw a dice to determine whether the player receives the office or not. With each throw the chances to get the office would get higher.
Also, I think offices should last 10 turns (5 years). Do we need the age requirement? I don't think we need.
Perhaps there can only be one consul, one praetor etc?

Tribune - All non-office holding characters. Can lead 1/4 stack.

Quaestor - Can lead a 1/2 stack. Can set the tax levels in cities.

Aedile - If possible, can create gladiatorial games and races. Can lead 1/2 stack.

Praetor - Can lead a 3/4 stack. If the Consul is unavailable he will get's his powers as long as the Consul returns.

Consul - Can lead a full stack. Can set the tax levels(if there are no quaestors), create games(if there are no aediles), can call meetings if he thinks they are needed, determine when players can recruit higher tier units from conquered cities(if there is no Censor).

Censor - Can lead 1/2 stack. Can determine when it is allowed to recruit units(higher than City Watch) in conquered cities.

Pontifex Maximus - Just a honorary title. Can lead a 1/4 stack.

2) Personal Finances

While all the factional troops can only be recruited by the "treasurer"(or Consul) then all mercenaries can be recruited by the players using their personal finances. This does not mean Consuls/treasurers can't recruit mercs using the factions finances. Mercs bought using the factional finances belong to the faction.

Everyone will receive a set amount of denari each turn that they can use for recruiting mercs. Once recruited players must pay for the upkeep of these mercs as well.

Non-office characters - 500 denari
Offices - 1000 denari
Consul - 1500 denari
Faction leader should get a small bonus(like 300 denari).


However, are there any other ideas?

I had great fun with LoTR, but I've always felt regrets for not discovering the Throne Room earlier to take part in the WotS game.

I'm not sure if I have enough time to dedicate to a WotS-like R:TW RPG nowadays, but I'm certainly very, very tempted.

Put something on the frontpage about this; let's hope it helps in drawing in more players.

Yes, I'm excited to get the chance of making good for missing out on the WotS fun.

You have to come out with this the week I'm rereading KotR. :laugh4:

Don't have much time to comment on the rules right now, but I'd personally select Scipii as the faction due to flexibility of targets. With Julii, you're basically limited to barbarians (and Carthage if you're lucky). With Brutii, have fun killing Hellenistic factions. With the Scipii, you're probably going to kill Carthage first, but after they're dead you can stay in North Africa, hop to Spain, maybe go to Greece, poke a sleeping dragon and go after Egypt, etc. Far more variety for generals that way.

Pontifex Maximus is the one allowed the choice of temple in a newly conquered settlement and the choice of changing one existing settlement's patron deity per turn.

Consuls should receive a free "consular army' which is a full stack of the best units available for the faction if enemy troops invade italy. This army is only granted for the defence of the Italian settlements and cannot venture off the peninsula, Sicilly or above the Alps. If he accepts this army, the consul must in turn grant his personal units as a garrison in a settlement for the duration of the consular army's activity. Once the threat has been quelled, the consualr army returns to the faction's capital in Italy.

We must determine whom gets to build buildings and how faction finances are allocated. The admin can spawn event armies, such as an Epirote invasion of Italy, Hannibal's armies and so on. Also, we need a set goal to end the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myth

Pontifex Maximus is the one allowed the choice of temple in a newly conquered settlement and the choice of changing one existing settlement's patron deity per turn.

Consuls should receive a free "consular army' which is a full stack of the best units available for the faction if enemy troops invade italy. This army is only granted for the defence of the Italian settlements and cannot venture off the peninsula, Sicilly or above the Alps. If he accepts this army, the consul must in turn grant his personal units as a garrison in a settlement for the duration of the consular army's activity. Once the threat has been quelled, the consualr army returns to the faction's capital in Italy.

We must determine whom gets to build buildings and how faction finances are allocated. The admin can spawn event armies, such as an Epirote invasion of Italy, Hannibal's armies and so on. Also, we need a set goal to end the game.

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I like the idea of admin created events, but I don't think we will need the help of a free army spawning. I don't want the game to be too easy, and I think we all are capable of doing some serious damage to any AI stack with whatever we happen to have.

Well I want to recreate the dread of a consular army, but perhaps this is too much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andres

Put something on the frontpage about this; let's hope it helps in drawing in more players.

Yes, I'm excited to get the chance of making good for missing out on the WotS fun.

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Thank you! :bow: I noticed it on the frontpage and I really hope other will as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myth

Pontifex Maximus is the one allowed the choice of temple in a newly conquered settlement and the choice of changing one existing settlement's patron deity per turn.

Consuls should receive a free "consular army' which is a full stack of the best units available for the faction if enemy troops invade italy. This army is only granted for the defence of the Italian settlements and cannot venture off the peninsula, Sicilly or above the Alps. If he accepts this army, the consul must in turn grant his personal units as a garrison in a settlement for the duration of the consular army's activity. Once the threat has been quelled, the consualr army returns to the faction's capital in Italy.

We must determine whom gets to build buildings and how faction finances are allocated. The admin can spawn event armies, such as an Epirote invasion of Italy, Hannibal's armies and so on. Also, we need a set goal to end the game.

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I like that Pontifex Maximus idea.

Consuls should be able to create their armies by recruiting new units or being able to take units from other players armies(not personal mercenary units). This way it should be easy to get a full stack in maximum of 2-3 turns. Once Consuls term is over(10 turns) he can once again command 1/4 stack(he should be able to pick what units he wants) and the rest of the army should be distributed between garrisons or sent back to Italy.

Who builds, recruits etc? If you check my previous post then I proposed just a simple "treasurer"(we can name it better though) office. Player does not get any bonuses for being one. It would just fill the space if other more important offices are not fulfilled. So, "treasurer"s powers may vary from time to time.

About the GM created events and stuff like that. I think we can't do it without it. The AI needs some financial aid from time to time and some units to bolster it's borders especially against players. So, all that will be done by the GM.

@GeneralHankerchief - Scipii sounds good choice as well. Plus they have Deceres and Corvus Quinquiremes!

I've never really noticed the Throne Room before, but now that The King mentioned this in another thread I'm willing to give it a shot if you'll have me. A word of warning in advance - I am really not very good at this game. I struggle against equal-sized armies on medium, let alone whatever you guys will be playing it on. So I will probably end up being the Leeroy Jenkins character who constantly needs to be bailed out of trouble :beam:.

As for the faction, I do like the idea of Scipii simply because I never really played as them much. Also, random question - about how large is a compressed save file for the purposes of downloading/uploading?

But I like my red Romans and their temples of Ceres... Plus I know the Julii can go and conquer Greece before the AI Brutii if we act quickly enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ishmael

I've never really noticed the Throne Room before, but now that The King mentioned this in another thread I'm willing to give it a shot if you'll have me. A word of warning in advance - I am really not very good at this game. I struggle against equal-sized armies on medium, let alone whatever you guys will be playing it on. So I will probably end up being the Leeroy Jenkins character who constantly needs to be bailed out of trouble :beam:.

As for the faction, I do like the idea of Scipii simply because I never really played as them much. Also, random question - about how large is a compressed save file for the purposes of downloading/uploading?

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This is basically a Vanilla RTW game. So, it shouldn't be that hard. ~;)
Also, saves in RTW are small. Should be around 200-300 kb(compressed) at the start. The save will get larger later but still not too large.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myth

But I like my red Romans and their temples of Ceres... Plus I know the Julii can go and conquer Greece before the AI Brutii if we act quickly enough.

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Like I said in my OP small scale of modding is allowed. If Scipii are chosen then I could mod temples of Ceres available for them.

And Mars, don't forget Mars. Although a combination of Mars + Vulcan will make our legions seriously overpowered.

Welcome to the throne room @Ishmael!

Don't worry, no one will mind and we can all teach you some tricks too maybe!

I'm going o put together some basic rules once I get back home from work. I'll try to keep it simple and not over complicate things.

I apologize for my absence. Had less free time than I expected. However, I have not forgot this game here and I hope we can set it up soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The King

I apologize for my absence. Had less free time than I expected. However, I have not forgot this game here and I hope we can set it up soon.

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Hey @The King,

If you are still busy, no problem, I just wanted to check in with you. It seems we have several people raring to go on this game!

I'd be up for something like this.

Is there an easy way to remove the Senate & other Roman factions from the game, as we could then just play as "Rome" rather than the Julii or Scipii?

Regardless, I would suggest:

1.) Either modding out, or outlawing Incendiary Pigs (except maybe against factions with elephants, and even then a limit of one unit max) & definitely wardogs.

2.) Initiate 4 "houses" within the Roman faction we play, based on the 4 lines of the faction tree. This creates a stable number of factions to debate/seek their own interests and IMHO was the main cause of KotR's longevity, large player-base and success.

3.) I really like the sound of The King's Cursus honorum ides, with one or two small modifications:

I. Leading of Armies:

a) Make it that only Office holders (Consuls and praetors) can lead field armies, while Governors of provinces may maintain a smaller (1/4 - 1/2 stack) provincial garrison.
b) Non-officeholders may accompany a consul, praetor, & governor, but may only lead the army in the case of the consul, praetor, or governor dying.
c) Non-officeholders may be invested with imperium (the right to command armies) by a 2/3 majority vote of the Senate.


II. Age Requirement: Perhaps rather than not having an age requirement for the offices, we could lower the age requirements by a bit to make sure there are a decent number of candidates to choose from, while retaining the sense of "climbing the ladder" which is so strong throughout the Roman Republic.

Maybe the following:

Military Tribune: 16+

Quaestor: 24+ (must have served as military tribune for 5 years)

Aedile: 30+ (must have served as a quaestor)

Praetor: 34+ (must have served as an aedile)

Consul: 36+ (must have served as a praetor)


III.

Guys, you can count me as a player for this when you're ready to start. I've just acquired Rome and this looks like a more fun way to learn the game.

I actually wouldn't want to remove other Roman factions from the game. Because they allow us to play the civil war that would be hard if we have only one Roman faction. And I liked the civil war part in Vanilla.

Also, I was thinking allowing our "Senate" to lay claims on provinces. This would mean that characters are allowed to enter there and fight battles against the enemy faction. However, only Consul or Praetor or someone with the powers from the "Senate" can attack the city in that province.

I'm slowly starting to get back on track with my life and free time so I was thinking to resurrect this game idea. I may even have the basic rules for it (if I look hard). Anyone still interested? ~:)

I would be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The King

I'm slowly starting to get back on track with my life and free time so I was thinking to resurrect this game idea. I may even have the basic rules for it (if I look hard). Anyone still interested? ~:)

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I like the concept of this game, as it allows me to be incompetent without the embarrassment of having my entire faction wiped out (as long as I'm not put in charge of the defence of Rome...:creep:). And I tend to be more a coop multiplayer person, rather than competitive, so it's good for that too. In short, if you run this I'd be happy to be in.

Okey, I'll try to find the rules I wrote for this then. Basically it is a Vanilla RTW game (as Scipii?!). There will be some small changes but nothing big and if people don't like them we can cast them aside.

Just to help with this, i once wrote a whole rule set for an EB PBM in here :)

i used to have this uploaded, but i had to dig deep in the forum here to find it again:

Concept rules:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. Office Terms
Every elected rank is valid for 12 turns. After each 12 turns there will be a congressional session and new elections for offices.
Only exception is the tribunus Plebis, who will be active for 24 turns.

2. Character Points

To get to the next rank (Rule 2.4) every player must get a certain amount of 'CP's'.
Character points are gained from participating in IC events and having your character do something in-game

Battle
"Crushing Defeat" -3 points
"Clear Defeat" -2 point
"Average Defeat" -1 point
"Close Defeat" -1/2 point
"Close Victory" 1 point
"Average Victory" 2 point
"Clear Victory" 3 points
"Heroic Victory" 4 points

Governing
1CP per 2 turns for villages, towns, large towns
2CP per 2 turns for Cities, Large Cities
3CP per 2 turns for Huge Cities

A character which is NOT the main commander of the legion, but does participate in the battle will receive the following points:
1/2 of the normal points if this character is a Legatus. (rounded up)
1/3 if he is a quaestor (rounded down)

To the GM: please note that points will be rounded to 0.25
example:
a quaestor who participated in a close victory: 1 * 1/3 =0.33 (rounds down) == 0.25 CP's
a legatus who participated in the same battle: 1 * 1/2 = 0.50CP

Note: I, as GM, will do a complete review of game history before the next CC and will transfer the new CP points into our current BP points.

3. Pomerium

This included all cities of italy below the padus river.
(Ingame this means: Arretium/ariminum are the northern border of the pomerium. Then it goes al lthe way south to taras/Rhegion.)

This will be the area regarded as homeland. Keep it in mind for it will be mentioned @ ranks.

4.Provinces

A province will be an area in-game, determined by a Charter Amendement, that will or may included several cities in a region and will be governed by a PG (provincial governor)
As the Empire grows bigger, provinces may change in shape/size. ALL NON-POMERIUM CITIES WILL HAVE TO HAVE TYPEII.
Client-ruled cities do not count as a province.

For example: Sicily is a province. It will have 1 governor who will chose his 'capital'. This chosen capital will nto be able to be governed by a quaestor during the term of the governor.
Publius cornelius is now an ex-consul, and chooses as his province Sicily. He then declares Lilybaem his capital, so from there he governs.
His nephew is new in the senate, and Publius Cornelius asks the CoF if his nephew can serve him as a quaestor.
Publius Cornelius can now ask his nephew to govern either one of sicily's other cities.

5. Theatre of War
A theatre of war is a province which is adjacent to a nation of which we are at war with.
For instance: Illyria when we are at war with epeirus.
When a CoL is elected, he may declare his Theatre of War, providing the neighbouring faction is at war with us.
This allows the consul to take control of the province and wager war on the neighbouring faction.
The CoL is the ONLY person who may ventured into enemy territory without approval of the senate. (as longs as the enemy is in a state of war)

6. CASUS BELLI
This concept means the Republic only goes to war with a VALID REASON.
We only attack when we are attacked, or our allies have been attacked, or a nations threatens the status quot in our region.
Provincial Governors are therefore not allowed to take their legion into foreign territory.
Unless the foreigners have intruded our land or attacked us.

This also means that as long as a faction does not attack us/allies placed close to us, governors cannot conquer any new cities.
Only the CoL can venture out to gain new cities.

In case we are attacked, a provincial governor may send word to the senate, who may vote an edict for revenge.

7. Voting system
The congressional system as it is remains, with a few additions:

The Tribunus Plebeis may enfore 2 edicts per term without vote.

A provincial Governor may call of Vote on War: this means that a PG may request the senate to allow him to conquer a foreign settlement of a faction currently not at war with the SPQR.
This includes rebel cities. This may happen when the foreign faction has had troops on our territory or the faction is showing 'bad intentions' to us or our allies.
The governor must provide evidence for a casus belli, after which he may create a poll. No seconding required.

IC voting: several small IC-related things may also require a voting outside the session. This will regard things that do not affect in-game issues (for example giving bean a triumph)
IC voting can be started by anyone. It requires 3 'secondings' after which a voting poll will be isued.


Voting for any of the above will last for 24hrs after creation of the poll. No turn may be ended during this period.

8. Law system

Whenever an edicts contradicts a rule, the edicts will have to be judged by the current elected praetor.
He will have final word on the validness of the edict.

Of course, this means that praetors should take their responsability as not letting things get out of hand against the spirit of the game.

Some issues and changes will need to be taken directly to the GM.

This is to represent the fickleness of ancient roman law.
THIS RULE IS DEBATABLE/OPTIONAL

Career Reforms:

[spoil]
Privatus (starting rank)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A privatus is a young man, just finishing his education in Rome and ready for the first step of the Cursus Honorum
Requirements: None (Training Stage 1)
Vote weight: 1
Powers:
Penalties:
(1) May not lead any troops nor propose laws.
(2) Cannot Run for Consul
(3) Skulks in Rome to gain ancilliaries until he gets elected as Tribunus Plebis OR appointed Quaestor by a CoF.

Tribunus Militum

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Requirements: None (Training Stage 2)
Vote weight: 1
Powers:
1) May send a request to the CoL to join a legion.
Penalties:
(1) A young man, preferring the education an army can give him above one found in the forum romanum.
(2) May not lead any troops nor propose laws.
(3) Cannot Run for Consul
(4) may not govern a city

Quaestor

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Requirements: Must have been appointed by the consul of Finance (or by request of a provincial governor to the CoF).
Vote weight: 1
Powers:
(1) Can propose one Edict/Charter Amendment per 'Congressional' Session.
(2) Can govern one city (except province capitals)
(3) Must be appointed by Consul of Finance (for a pomerium city) OR requested by a provincial governor (for a provincial city). If requested by a PG, the CoF will still have to approve the assignment.
(4) Can act as second in command to a Legate/Dux/Consul
(5) Can also govern a provincial city in the province of a governor.
Penalties
(1) Cannot command a FULL Legion. (In times of need, they ARE allowed to command the Alae.)

Tribune of the Plebs

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Speaks for the Plebs in the Comita.
Requirements: Must be elected to position.
Vote weight: 2
Powers:
(1) Can propose one edict/charter amendment per congressional council;
(2) Can veto 2 edicts per term
(3)The Tribune of the Plebs term is two Consul Terms long. (24 turns)
(4) Can issue 2 edicts during his term which become valid from point of announcement until next session.
(5) receives 18 CP's after term is completed as this is the first electable office and regarded as the first step of the cursus honorum.
Penalties:
(1) May not lead any troops
(2) Cannot Run for Consul
(3) Cannot govern a city

Praetor

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Requirements:
Must have been Quaestor OR Tribunus plebis. Must have 25 'CP's'. Must be elected.
Vote weight: 4
Powers:
(1) Can lead 1 legion
(2) Can propose 3 Edicts/Charter Amendments per 'Council' Session.
(3) Will get to choose province to govern when term as praetor is over, after both consuls have chosen theirs.
(4) Can act as judge in IC disputes
(5) May sponser the formation of Houses/Families

Consul of Finance

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Only Consul of Finance will end the “turn”.
Requirements: Must have been elected to this office. Must have been Praetor OR have 40 CP’s.
Vote weight: 5
Powers:
(1) Can build any building in any settlements he wishes and set the tax rate in any settlement unless they are part of a Provincial Governorship. Cannot recruit military units.
(2) Gains automatically control of the Consular Legio II. This legion will be stationed in a fort outside Capua. It may never enter Latium unless passing through or if there is an enemy near Rome. Legion will be used only to clean up rebels inside the pomerium ONLY.
(3) MUST BE STATIONED IN ROME! The finance consul must always be in Rome to govern. Unless fighting off rebels.
(4) All diplomats (not spies or assassins) are under the command of the Consul of Finance. He can move them and use them as he sees fit.
(5) Once per full 12 turn Consul Term, can force a transfer of one retinue member/item from any Player to themselves or any other Senator.
(6) Can call Emergency Congressional Session.
(7) Will get first pick of his province to govern after term is complete.
(8) Can propose 5 Edicts/Charter Amendments per 'Council' Session.
(9) Can exclude 1 avatar from participating in the congress. the so called: "lictors, remove this man" move Basically only to be used when people are truely annoying in the Curia, or rebellious.

Consul of the Legion’s
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Requirements: Must have been elected to this office. Must have been Praetor OR have 40 CP’s
Vote weight: 5
Powers:
(1) Can build any military unit in any settlements he wishes unless they are part of a Provincial Governorship. Cannot construct buildings.
(2) Assumes control of the Legio I .
(3) May choose his theater of war. If no theatre of war is active, must remain in Rome.
(4) All Assassins/Spy are under command of the Consul of the Legion’s. He can move them and use them in any way he wishes.
(5) Once per full 12 turn Consul Term, can force a transfer of one retinue member/item from any Player to themselves or any other Senator.
(6) Can call Emergency Congressional Session.
(7) Will get second pick of his province to govern after completion of term.
(8) Can propose 5 Edicts/Charter Amendments per 'Council' Session.




Provincial Governor
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Requirements: Must be an outgoing Consul/Praetor OR Must be appointed to this rank through the Senate by an edict.
Vote weight: 3
Powers:
(1) Can govern the Province they have been given. This means: Set the tax level, ask unit recruitment/building construction (Should be mentioned in the SOT).
(2) Can propose 2 Edicts or Amendments per 'Congressional' Session.
(3) Once per full 12 turn Consul Term, can Prioritize one building in any build queue in any settlement in his Province(s).
(4) Once per full 12 turn Consul Term, can destroy one building in any settlement. Buildings in the barracks lines cannot be destroyed with this power.
(5) Commands 1 provincial legion.
(6) Can appoint a Quaestor to govern any city he choses in his province.






Legatus
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Requirements: Must have 15 CP's. Must be appointed by Senate/provincial governor.
Influence: 1
Powers:
(1) Can command 1 legion OR 1 provincial legion.





Dicator
Must be elected by a ¾ majority in the senate OR legion commanders.
Powers
(1)Assumes total control of all supporting legions
(2)Can establish edicts as he sees fit
(3)Can establish charter amendements in negotation with the GM

All avatars/ legions which do not support the dicator will be declared rebels until the dictatorship is over.
All ‘rebels’ will lose their ability to recruit.
The loyalists however, will also not be able to recruit in provinces which are governed by a ‘rebel’

More details on this can be furnished on request 

The point of these reforms is:
1)Until you reach praetor, you’re basically a junior senator
2)Once you pass praetor, you get acces to the cool offices.
3)If you manage to get yourself elected, you got much power during your term
4)If your term is over, you get to choose your playground
5)There has to be atleast 1 term between your next election (Term A, you’re consul; Term B; you’re a governor; Turn C; you can get elected again.
6)During your time as a non-elected senator, you’re between the junior senators and the elected senators concerning power.
7)Once everyone gets a high rank, game will evolve around factions as the people who can get their members elected wield more power than those who don’t. This establishes a whole end-game which the current ranks do not have.


Legions:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

8. Legions
All Legions are BOUND to their area. Legions will be composed of 1 roman half, one allied half (Alae)
The allied half will be unit types that are recrutable in the area the Legion is bound to.

Compostion of Standard Legions

Camillan era
1 General
1 Leves or Accensi
1 Hastati
1 principes
1 triari
Alae
1 skirmisher type
2 units of allied infantry (two different pairs of Samnite, Lucanian, Bruttium, Ligurian or Gallic infantry or just any local stuff if the real distant cities)
1 unit of pedites extraordinarii
1 unit local cavalry

Polybian Era
1 General
1 unit of Velites/Accensi
1 unit of Hastati
1 unit of Principes
1 unit of Triarii
Alae
The two socii alae are composed as follows:
1 unit of allied skirmishers (any mix of javelineers, archers and slingers)
2 units of allied infantry (two different pairs of Samnite, Lucanian, Bruttium, Ligurian, Gallic, or Iberian infantry)
1 unit of pedites extraordinarii
1 unit of allied cavalry (Campanian, Greek, Gallic, Ligurian or anything else available, or possibly equites extraordinarii)

Marian
1 General
1 unit of First Cohort
2 unit of cohors reformata
2 unit of antesignani/evocata
Support
1 unit of Scorpions/arrow throwers
Alae
1 unit of allied javelin-men
1 unit of allied slingers or archers
1 unit of allied cavalry

SPECIAL LEGIONS
Consular Legion I for the CoL:
A normal legion

Consular Legion II for the CoF:
A normal legion MINUS the Alae

Provincial Legion
Normal Legion minus the Ala

maybe u can pull some useful stuff out of it :)

@mini - Thanks! There were indeed couple of good ideas I could use!

This is great. The one thing I truly disagree is Casus Beli. I know we do it so we don't stomp the AI but the Roman Republic was in a constant state of war since its inception and military triumphs were the main way for one to gain influence and advance in office. A Rome that waits to be attacked to wage war is not at all historically accurate.

i do advise playing EB :)

vanilla is so shit :p

I'm definitely interested, but I don't have much free time right now. Should be able to join in the fun somewhere in March or April at the latest.

I have thought about this game and the rules for some time and I'll give a short summary of what I thought out. If anyone have some objections then let me know.

1) Ranks/Offices

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I divided ranks mainly into two parts: civil offices(Cursus Honorum) and military ranks (plus some ranks/offices that do not belong to either of those groups). So, I'll introduce them to you.

Lowest ranks
a) Privatus
All avatars who become of age(become 16 years old) will be considered "Privatus". They can't vote, get elected to offices, propose legislations, lead units etc.

b) Prefect
When avatar turns 18 years old he will receive the rank Prefect. They can lead some units(1/4 stack), run for "Magistrate", vote, propose legislations etc.

Military Ranks
a) Tribune
Legion commanders(or governors) can choose players with Privatus or Prefect ranks to become their second-in-command(if someone have applied to the job) and they will then receive the rank Taribune. They can lead 10 units, attack enemy armies in neighboring neutral provinces. They can ask their units to be retrained but they cannot recruit new units. Cannot hold civil offices as long as he is Tribune.

b) Legate
Commands a Legion(full stack). Can accept another player as his second-in-command(thus promoting him to the rank of Tribune). Can recruit units. Can attack enemy armies in allied provinces. Cannot hold civil offices as long as he is Legate.

Cursus Honorum
(Offices can be held from 2 to 10 turns. Players can always resign from the office before their 10 turn term is over. Each office can only be held be one player.)

a) Quaestor
To hold this rank avatar must be at least 20 years old and have been Tribune at least 2 turns. He can set taxes in every settlement(except those that are governed by governors). Cannot lead any units.

b) Aedile
Must be at least 25 years old and must have served as Quaestor. Can create gladiatorial games or races. Cannot lead any units.

c) Praetor
Must be at least 29 years old, served as Aedile and the standing with the Senate must be at least 5. Acts as a judge in IC disputes. Can take command of any garrison and lead them within the borders of their province. Can't however lead more than 10 units. Can propose Edicts between Council sessions.

d) Consul
Must be at least 30 years old, served as Praetor and standing with the Senate must be at least 7. Can lead a Legion(and have a Tribune as his second in command). Will receive the powers of lower offices if they are vacant. Can declare war, recruit units, move captain led armies in any way he wants. Can also propose Edicts between Council sessions.

c) Censor
Must be at least 35 years old, served as Consul. Can ban recruitment in every settlement(but not retraining of units) but not in Capital.

Other offices
a) Pontifex Maximus
A honorary title that can be assumed if player have at least served as Aedile. Can be held for life. Cannot lead any units. Oversees construction and upgrade of temples. Can set god/temple type for a settlement and change it when he wants(but not if there is a large temple in the settlement).

b) Governor(Dux/Propraetor/Proconsul)
Governor can be appointed with an Edict (player will receive the title Dux) or when Praetors(and Consuls) term in the office is over they can choose a province what thay want to govern. Dux can govern 1 province, Propraetor maximum of 2 neighboring provinces and Proconsul up to 3 neighboring provinces. Provinces in Italy can't be choosed. Governors can set taxes, create games/races, build, recruit etc in their provinces. Their term lasts maximum of 20 turns. It's possible to assign additional settlements to the governors with legislations(Dux could then govern more than 1 province for example).

c) Magistrate
All players (except players with Privatus rank) can run for Magistrate. However, Tribune and Legate must resign from their rank if they are elected. Magistrate can set taxes(Quaestor no present), recruit units that legion commanders want, build, do diplomacy etc. Player can always resign from this office when ever he wants. There is no limit to how long someone can hold this office. Magistrate is the one who will end the turn. GM might in special circumstances assume this office to keep the game moving.

d) Faction Leader
If there are no Consuls or Praetors present he will receive their powers. Can lead a full stack.

These are pre civil war ranks and offices. I suggest that if civil war event will happen we merge most of the offices and form a new one - Emperor.

2) Declaration of War and Theater of War

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

War can be declared with an Edict, with a Law(Lex) or by the Consul. In the same time ToW must be declared also. The size of the ToW is connected to the method how DoW was made. Players cannot enter neutral or allied provinces unless it is allowed with their rank.
Edict - ToW can have max 3 neighboring enemy provinces. ToW will be in effect until the next Council session.
Law(Lex) - ToW can have max 3 neighboring enemy(and neutral) provinces. ToW does not expire.
By Consul - ToW can have max 3 neighboring enemy and neutral provinces. Tow will be in effect until the next Council session.

3) Armies

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

All armies must have at least 2/3 of the factional units as infantry. Fleets are under the command of Consul(or FL) unless naval unit is bought by a player with his personal funds. Captain lead armies cannot enter foreign provinces.

Special units
These are Wardogs, Flaming Pigs, Gladiators etc. They are "flavor" units. Players can recruit(and later pay their upkeep) them with their personal funds. There is a limit of how many of these can be recruited. Higher rank/office grants more special units. However, there can be only one unit from each type(one wardog unit and not three for example). Repeating ballistas and Scorpions are also special units for most players. Only FL or Consul can add them into the main army. In Pre-Marian times Praetorian units can only be recruited by the FL and Consul with their personal funds. Mercenary units are also considered special units for most players. Legate, Consul and FL can add them into their main army.

4) Personal Funds

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

All players from the rank Prefect(including them of course as well) upwards will each turn earn some money for personal use. This can be used to recruit some special units or during events. Magistrate will keep track on personal funds.
Prefect - 500 denarii
Tribune, Quaestor, Aedile - 700 denarii
Praetor, Legate, Governor - 1000 denarii
Censor, Pontifex Maximus -12000 denarii
Consul, Faction Leader - 1500 denarii
(Propraetor will receive +100 and Proconsul +200 denarii to their governor salary)

5) Edicts, Laws, Council session a.k.a Politics

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Just like in KotN there are two type of legislations: Edicts that last until the next Council Session and Laws(Lex) that will be permanent. Consul and Praetor can also propose Edicts(Consul can propose 2 and Praetor 1 Edict) between Council sessions. Those Edicts need only 2 secondings to pass.

Council sessions will take place every 10 turns. They last 2 days and are follwed by 2 days for voting.

Emergency council sessions can be called by Consul or Faction Leader.

All offices and legion commanders can be removed from their position at any time(office holder must have served at least 2 turns before he can be removed) if 2/3 of the players support it.

6) Modification of the files

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

a) There will be some small changes to the descr_strat file.
b) All Gladiator units will be made recruitable.
c) All special units will receive * mark to their unit name for easy refrence.
d) All roman temples will be made available for the players (?)

Fog of War can only be turned off by the GM. He can take the save and help the AI when needed.

So, this is what I have been doing for the past (almost) 2 weeks. If you like these rules then I will present them in a much better format.

Happy reading!
~:)

Btw, the game needs a better name.

What about "Return to the Roots" (RttR) or "Strength and Honor" (SaH)?

i'll be following the game :)
curious of what you make of it.

The last roman PBM was called beyond the seven hills (BtSH) or something, and was ceased due to lack of activity


i'm not participating however, since you'll be playing vanilla, and i'm allergic to vanilla rome ;)

I am interested :bow: (love Rome)

EDIT: How do you become a legion commander? That is not yet in the rules (or did I overlook it?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darth Feather

I am interested :bow: (love Rome)

EDIT: How do you become a legion commander? That is not yet in the rules (or did I overlook it?)

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I think I just forgot to add it. Council can make someone Legate with an Edict or if there is a Consul then he can do it as well.

This means that if Legate wants to keep his position then he has to be at least somewhat active in the game. In previous games there were times when someone was given command over army but then that player became not active. So, hopefully this way we can prevent this happen. Also, they will be much easier to removed from their post.

So, I hoped to get more feedback on the proposed draft of rules.
@Nightbringer @Zim @Myth @Andres @Ishmael @Ignoramus @LooseCannon1 - You were all interested of this game at some point.

I really would like this to get running. Perhaps in March already?

As Scipii there are 4 starting generals and 2 more will become of age in first 10 turns. However, if wI can get more than 4 players sign up then I could modify the strat file so that all would start with an avatar from the Scipii family.

Hello Ibn-Khaldun.

At the moment, it's impossible for me to say when I'll have enough time to take part in this game. Depending on RL circumstances, it'll be either somewhere around March 15th or somewhere in May/June.

The rules look good to me - I don't have any prior experience with games like this, so I'm happy to run with what everybody else deems appropriate. I'm fine with whenever you choose to start it, provided it's not in the next week or so.

Sorry, I think your rules look quite nice Ibn-Khaldun. The one question I have is whether ranks that would normally not be allowed to train troops are able to do so with their private funds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightbringer

Sorry, I think your rules look quite nice Ibn-Khaldun. The one question I have is whether ranks that would normally not be allowed to train troops are able to do so with their private funds.

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They can recruit these special units (flaming pigs, wardogs etc) and mercenaries but not other factional units.

All ranks and offices can recruit a small number of special units(wardogs etc and mercenaries) with their private funds. The higher the rank the more they can recruit them. However, factional units can only be recruited by the ranks who have the power to recruit units.

I am stil interested. I am new at this kind of RPG though. I might be somewhat less active during the first week of march.

I like these rules, I just don't think that the Faction Leader should get so much power and money - rather, we should just have one player step in as the first Consul and hold elections as soon as we get our feet wet.

Let's get started!