LA BELLE EPOQUE (a sequel to the CONCERT OF EUROPE)

Intro

It is January 1847.

During the last years it became more and more evident that the Concert of Europe came to an end. Although the five Grand Powers came to an amicable arrangement in the Balkans affair, Great Britain soon played its own melody, which was guided by the trade interests in the Eastern Mediterranean. Other conflicts like the Schleswig-Holstein affair or the future of Italy kept unsolved. Nationalistic and social problems are ignored.
So in 1847 the new order seems to be that England does not care any longer about what is going on on the continent and concentrates on her colonies and the oversea trade. The remaining four Grand Powers form the HOLY ALLIANCE to keep order on the continent and to free the Balkans from the heathens.
The growth of the industries is still unbroken and so is population growth. Never before it was so simple to get rich. Investments in railroad companies fly high on the stock exchange market. On the other side, many artisans cannot keep up with the new speed of production and poverty spreads even faster than richness.
The performance of this alliance against the Turks and their ally is amazingly poor. The war consumes an enormous amount of money and even the neutral states suffer from it. Furthermore the apparent incompetence of the governments and their staffs raises the unhappiness of their people. Many European countries saw a bad harvest in 1847 and the increase of the food price makes life harder for the poor.

Due to the investments in new industries and the war, it is getting harder to borow money, esp. for countries with high debts and small growth.
The United Kingdom under the government of Queen Victoria is getting stronger year by year. It left the struggles about Ireland and India behind. England is the leader in technology, it has the biggest railroad net and its industrial production is beyond any comparison. Although many say that the quality of the new machined products is poor compared to the traditional goods, the prices are ridiculous low. English goods flood the markets of Europe and the world.
Although England is in an excellent position, not all English are satisfied with the government. Part of the middle class is concerned about the isolation and fear that England will lose the European market. Others blame the Queen for the passive attitude in the Eastern Med. The war cut off important trade routes, esp. those for cotton. These let to an enormous increase in the price of American cotton. Several textile factories already released thousands of workers, the rest decreased wages. This, combined with the increase in food price, mobilizes political parties and unions. In December, more than 20,000 workers and their families gather at St. Peter's Filed near Manchester. They send a note to London demanding minimum wage, reduced price for food, the right to go on strike and changes in the voting right. The administration sends thousands of police and army forces, but it hesitates to attack. This upsets the contractors. They send a note to London demanding to arrest these bunches of criminals and threaten with forming their own securities.

France is the strongest power on the continent and in many things the antipode of England. If England has the biggest industrial production, France has the biggest market. And it does everything to improve in technology and industry. Due to the national railroad program Etoile de France the countries railroad net is growing faster than anywhere else. This gives trade and industry a kick. France produces almost as many steam engines as England these days and the textile industry is growing too. The owners of factories may not make as much profit as their English competitors, but working conditions and wages are much better. Paris is developing to the most shining and glamorous capitol of Europe.
Although the government of King Louis-Philippe was very liberal and improved the living conditions a lot, it failed in the war against the Turks. Although almost 200,000 soldiers were sent to the orient, there is almost no progress. News about the latest battles decreased the popularity of the King and his ministers drastically. After the so-called “Spanish Wedding” affair and the scandal at the Netherlands about 50,000 demonstrated at Paris. The Royal Guard moved into the capitol to restore order, the protesters built barricades and it seemed as if there was once again a political bloodbath at Paris. However, Louis-Philippe decided to give in. He retired and before he left to his English exile he laid the power into the hands of the parliament. Within one week the national parliament passed a republican constitution – once again – and nominated Napoleon, a nephew of the former emperor, to become president of the Republic of France.

Prussia is ruled by King Friedrich Wilhelm. He does not fulfill the expectations of his subject. Many had hoped that after the liberation from Napoleon, Friedrich Wilhelm would unite Germany and lead the country into a new democratic era. The Schleswig-Holstein affair decreased his popularity and after his unsuccessful engagement in the war against the Turks the liberals blame him for sending the army into the wrong war and for being the servant of Austria. The new tax system and the railroad programs develop the industry, but the country is still far behind England and France.
The government tries to protect the economy with import fees, but nevertheless cheap products from England and France threaten the existence of many artisans. The increase of food price makes this even worse.
In December hundreds of Silesian weavers organize and assault factories to destroy the machines. They demand a stop of textile imports, lower food prices and to stop the building of new railroads.

Ferdinand, the ruler of Austria, moved the focus of is policy from the former Holy Roman Empire to the Balkans, where he wants to become heir of the Ottomans. However, this policy is not accepted by all Austrians. Basically, three groups oppose the policy of the Emperor. First of all, there is the German majority, which things that Austria has a holy mission to rule over Germany. Then there are the Hungarians, which fear that new provinces on the Balkans will decrease the already small influence of Hungary. And finally there are the liberal, which think that it is a waste of resources to try to conquer some undeveloped regions instead of modernizing the country. All three think that the failures of the campaigns are nothing but a just sentence by God.
Although the government tried to support the development of the country, progress is slow. Cheap imports from England and rising food prices decrease the happiness of the people, although it is still quiet in the realm – with one exception: south of the Alps, the Italian subject of his majesty protest. They suffer most from the breakdown of the Mediterranean trade. They block the ports and the roads across the mountains.

The Russian Czar Nikolai Pavlovich Romanov is the ruler of 85 million subjects. This giant realm is hard to rule and even harder to develop. Although the Russian made some remarkable progress, the war against the Ottoman Empire discovers the weakness of the huge Russian army. Maybe the alliance with the Western European countries may help to accelerate the development.
The Czar gives the Poles a lot of independency and so far this has avoided many problems. The Kremlin has to worry, however, about the growing influence of the English at Asia. Russian participation of the Black Sea trade and the Mediterranean trade broke down completely.

The Ottoman Empire is very isolated and there is little information. Of course, the war against almost all European countries is the main problem of the Sultan. He struggles for the survival of his realm. But even if this war is successful, he has still more than enough trouble. Egypt is demanding more and more parts of his realm and the trade across the Ottoman Empire is getting more and more unimportant and unprofitable. And the gap in technology compared to the Europeans is getting bigger.

Egypt managed to defeat the French hordes and this certainly boosts moral of the population. But Alexandria and most of the coast is still occupied by the Christians. If Egypt wins, it may raise to a new Great Power in the southwestern Med. If not, it may soon disappear.

Greece is more or less a puppet in the game of the Great Powers. The war against the Ottoman Empire may make the country grow drastically or it may destroy the nation. Unfortunately, Greece has little input on the outcome of the war.

China is the new superpower in the east, at least regarding size. But it may not be able to keep pace with the west.

The United States of America are a still rising star in the western hemisphere. Some say that it is going to be a future Great Power, but this is certainly a bit too optimistically. Right now it has to solve a couple of problems, first.



England has 27 million citizens (including Ireland, but not the other colonies), tax income is 123 million per year, the nation has a debt of 317 millions. The British Army is about 100,000 soldiers, the Royal Navy has about 120 warships all over the world.
France has 35 million inhabitants and a tax income of about 124 million. The debt is 275 million. The army has about 600,000 men and the navy about 40 ships.
Prussia has 15 million people. The income is 38 million and the debt 125 million. The army is about a quarter of a million and the navy has just a handful of ships.
Austria has 32 million people, 78 million income and a national debt of 235 million. The army has about half a million soldiers and the navy has a dozen ships.
Russia has 60 million people, with an income of 85 million and a debt of 195 million. The army has 600,000 men and the navy about half a dozen ships.
Ottoman Empire has 11 million subjects, an income of 9 million and a treasure of 50 million. It has 150,000 soldiers and fleet of about 20 ships.
Egypt has 3 million people and an income of 3 million. The treasure is still 20 million. The army is about 100,000 and the navy about a dozen ships.
Greece has a population of 1 million. Income is 1.5 million and debt is 10 million. It has less than 50,000 soldiers and only a couple of ships.
China has a population of 430 million. Income is 70 million and it does not have debts. The army has 2000000 soldiers and the fleet is not worth mentioning.
USA have a population of about 17 million. The army has 150,000 men and the navy between 30 and 40 ships. Income is 30 million, debt 50 million.

Player list:


England Greybaldes
France Csargo
Austria Prince Cobra
Prussia Swordsmaster
Russia Arjos
Greece rickinator9
Ottoman Empire Kival
Egypt Peasant Phill
China The Stranger
United States of America Celtic Viking

I still need to catch up with the last thread.
Give me some time.

this should make it more readable :P we start this weekend? (should be enough time to read up eheh)

i noticed that UK and France list as Tax income while the others just have income, does that mean that the UK and France have more income? or did you just not bother to write tax for the other nations?

England has 27 million citizens (including Ireland, but not the other colonies), tax income is 123 million per year, the nation has a debt of 317 millions. The British Army is about 100,000 soldiers, the Royal Navy has about 120 warships all over the world.

France has 35 million inhabitants and a tax income of about 124 million. The debt is 275 million. The army has about 600,000 men and the navy about 40 ships.

Prussia has 15 million people. The income is 38 million and the debt 125 million. The army is about a quarter of a million and the navy has just a handful of ships.

Austria has 32 million people, 78 million income and a national debt of 235 million. The army has about half a million soldiers and the navy has a dozen ships.

Russia has 60 million people, with an income of 85 million and a debt of 195 million. The army has 600,000 men and the navy about half a dozen ships.

Ottoman Empire has 11 million subjects, an income of 9 million and a treasure of 50 million. It has 150,000 soldiers and fleet of about 20 ships.

Egypt has 3 million people and an income of 3 million. The treasure is still 20 million. The army is about 100,000 and the navy about a dozen ships.

Greece has a population of 1 million. Income is 1.5 million and debt is 10 million. It has less than 50,000 soldiers and only a couple of ships.

China has a population of 430 million. Income is 70 million and it does not have debts. The army has 2,000,000 soldiers and the fleet is not worth mentioning.

USA have a population of about 17 million. The army has 150,000 men and the navy between 30 and 40 ships. Income is 30 million, debt 50 million.

You are right, income is income. Well, it is a kind of netincome = income of taxtes and customs minus cost for admin. From this you pay army, fleet, research, social programs etc.

You have all freedoms a real ruler has: change taxes, promote people, make treaties with other countries, declare war etc. But watch out, this is 19th century, there are papers and public opinion counts.

I suggest to have a diplomatic phase to discuss the relationship between the players and their nations until Christmas and then one week to send me your orders.
All non-players-factions are controlled by me!
Of course you can post every question and noncofidential stuff here.

I will send a pm to everybody asap, to tell him the real army and navy size.

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

But watch out, this is 19th century, there are papers and public opinion counts.

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not in china.

New map as of 1847, with the domains of Egypt separated (I think by the ceasefire with the Ottomans, it is now independent):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9581/coeworld.png

I hope this will help the new players ^^

(I hope it will help new hosts too)

Patuleia

Civil war breaks out at Portugal. Queen Maria asks the Concert of Europe for militaty help!

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Originally Posted by Arjos

New map as of 1847, with the domains of Egypt separated (I think by the ceasefire with the Ottomans, it is now independent):

I hope this will help the new players ^^

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It certainly helped me. Thanks.

I thought Crete was Egyptian!

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

I thought Crete was Egyptian!

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That would have been an even worse decision from the Sultan. He'd have no connection between west and east of it's empire left.

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

(I hope it will help new hosts too)

Patuleia

Civil war breaks out at Portugal. Queen Maria asks the Concert of Europe for militaty help!

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maria vs miguel?

ps @Arjos can u put the pic in a spoiler? it takes me ages to scroll :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

I thought Crete was Egyptian!

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Iirc, no allied (frech, greek, austrian or russian) forces ever "liberated" it and an egyptian fleet was simply spotted near it...
Then a ceasefire was reached and it stated that the Sultan ceded the Levant...
For example I know that I fought with those Egyptians, the following year, so I figured Crete remained part of the Ottoman lands...

Ofc I can change that asap, just let me know :)

Emperor TS of China invites all nations to start peaceful diplomatic relations. If no delegation of diplomats can be sent to China, then China will send diplomats to them if they wish.

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

Emperor TS of China invites all nations to start peaceful diplomatic relations. If no delegation of diplomats can be sent to China, then China will send diplomats to them if they wish.

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I would like to send diplomats to the barbar-peaceful chinese tribesme-people, but I cannot afford to send them. I would like to ask the evil-kind emperor TS to either send compensation for their journey or send his own diplomats to Greece.

- King Otto of Greece

*Host, how do we know the cost of such things?

Joyful news for Europe and Asia!

His Imperial Majesty, Czar Nikolai; His Imperial Majesty, Kaiser Ferdinand; His Imperial Majesty, Sultan ‘Abdü’l-Mecīd-i evvel and His Majesty, Basileus Othon have signed a peace treaty, ushering a new era of peace and prosperity for all!

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Originally Posted by Second Treaty of Edirne

- Austria is granted and recognized possession of Bosnia, Serbia and Albania.
- Russia is granted and recognized possession of Moldavia, Wallachia, Bulgaria and Armenia.
- Greece is granted and recognized possession of Epirus, Thessaly, all the Aegean Islands and Northern Greece.
- Ottomans, will maintain possession of Istanbul and the european adjacent territory.

- Muslims and Jews in the ceded territories, will be allowed to emigrate to Ottoman lands, if they wish so.
- Christians (particularly Greeks and Armenians) in Anatolia, will be allowed to emigrate to their homeland regions in the christian empires, if they wish so.
- All Prisoners of War will be exchanged, irregardless of their number.

- Austria and Russia will each pay 5 milion talers to the Sultan, as compensation for the lost territories.
- Religious freedom must be granted in the ceded territories and in Ottoman lands.
- In the Aegean Sea, free trade must be assured and no military vessels permitted.

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May God bless this newfound friendship and understanding!

His Imperial Majesty, Czar Nikolai, hopes that a peaceful negotiation between France and Egypt can be reached and offers the services of State Chancellor, Aleksandr Gorchakov, to help in any mediation.

i want to see the new map :D

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Originally Posted by Arjos

- Austria is granted and recognized possession of Bosnia, Serbia and Albania.
- Russia is granted and recognized possession of Moldavia, Wallachia, Bulgaria and Armenia.
- Greece is granted and recognized possession of Epirus, Thessaly, all the Aegean Islands and Northern Greece.
- Ottomans, will maintain possession of Istanbul and the european adjacent territory.

- Muslims and Jews in the ceded territories, will be allowed to emigrate to Ottoman lands, if they wish so.
- Christians (particularly Greeks and Armenians) in Anatolia, will be allowed to emigrate to their homeland regions in the christian empires, if they wish so.
- All Prisoners of War will be exchanged, irregardless of their number.

- Austria and Russia will each pay 5 milion talers to the Sultan, as compensation for the lost territories.
- Religious freedom must be granted in the ceded territories and in Ottoman lands.
- In the Aegean Sea, free trade must be assured and no military vessels permitted.

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The Austrian Empire welcomes the peaces treaty and hopes peace and stability will endure!

Prince Klemens von Metternich, Chancellor of Austria and servant of His Imperial Majesty Ferdinand von Habsburg

OOC: if Ferdinand is back then so should be Metternich. :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arjos

- Austria is granted and recognized possession of Bosnia, Serbia and Albania.
- Russia is granted and recognized possession of Moldavia, Wallachia, Bulgaria and Armenia.
- Greece is granted and recognized possession of Epirus, Thessaly, all the Aegean Islands and Northern Greece.
- Ottomans, will maintain possession of Istanbul and the european adjacent territory.

- Muslims and Jews in the ceded territories, will be allowed to emigrate to Ottoman lands, if they wish so.
- Christians (particularly Greeks and Armenians) in Anatolia, will be allowed to emigrate to their homeland regions in the christian empires, if they wish so.
- All Prisoners of War will be exchanged, irregardless of their number.

- Austria and Russia will each pay 5 milion talers to the Sultan, as compensation for the lost territories.
- Religious freedom must be granted in the ceded territories and in Ottoman lands.
- In the Aegean Sea, free trade must be assured and no military vessels permitted.

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The Austrian Empire welcomes the peaces treaty and hopes peace and stability will endure!

Prince Klemens von Metternich, Chancellor of Austria and servant of His Imperial Majesty Ferdinand von Habsburg

OOC: if Ferdinand is back then so should be Metternich. :P

Let it be known that the current Sadrazam Mehmed Emin Rauf Pasha stepped down from his office of Grand Vizier because of his failures in the current Balkan crisis. Koca Mustafa Reşid Paşa will be called back from his post as ambassador in Paris and as the former Vizier of Foreign Affairs will be appointed the new Sadrazam to start a new era of Tanzimat and reformation. Mehmed Emin Aali Pasha will be called back from his post as ambassador in London to aid as the new Vizier of Foreign Affairs.

In the name of 'Ala Hazrat-i-Aqdas-i-Hümayun (His Sacred and Imperial Majesty) Sultan ‘Abdü’l-Mecīd-i evvel, Padishah and Hünkar-i Khanedan-i Âl-i Osman.

EDIT: PS: New ambassadors will be sent, just don't know their names (yet).

Greece is very happy with the treaty. We wish to thank everybody who helped us in this war. May we liberate everyone from the Turk!

- Basileus Othon

Britain would like to see an actual map of the changes to the region this treaty's dictating, if only because there is quite a bit of contention in real life of the borders of the balkan states being mentioned.

Also on the new map: the area around the future Suez canal is British.

Hang on.

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France has 35 million inhabitants and a tax income of about 124 million. The debt is 275 million. The army has about 600,000 men and the navy about 40 ships.

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France was going through this last turn:

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French Strike

While the French workers in the south are no longer 'revolutionary' as such their ports have been closed and shipping taken and a large part of the south has declared itself 'on strike'. Some civil disturbances have been reported and when the Foreign Legion has attempted to restore order barricades have been built. The leaders of the strike demand land redistribution, a Parliament and compensation for the losses of trade due to closed ports and some 'impressed' shipping. They are not anti King but anti his advisers who they think are making money at their expense.

Economics

It has been an unstable year for France in general. New taxes have decreased French exports (as they are now more expensive) and taxes on trade from non French colonies have cut imports (as they are now also more expensive). France is relying on it's domestic market to take up the slack but with shipping nearly extinct in the French Mediterranean and ports closed and the strike it has been unable to do so. The interest on debts has risen sharply since the news of the retreat from Homs was heard. In general France is regarded as a 'risky' investment.

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How did France go from this to making more money than me in a turn? Having a bigger market doesn't mean that it can not only shrug off but grow from a year of being cut off from naval trade and having half its workers on strike. And what happened to my 10 million investments in the industry and rail companies in Britain if it's not affected my income from last turn? It worked out the last two times I did it.

I put the input of investments in industry and research very low. Sorry for this, but the change of host leas always to losses, tried to minimize them. There had been only little strikes in the south of France and they ended before the new year started. France made some good business last year.
England was affected by the lack of cotton. It has the biggest textile industry and depends on mass production. No cotton from Egypt and less and more expensive cotton from the USA is a problem.

I am amused to see that the big war ends as soon as real players take responsibility. Gives some hope for the world peace. However, I wonder where France and Egypt are going.

Bah, the whole point of putting 40 odd ships in the med was to make sure that the cotton kept flowing,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

I am amused to see that the big war ends as soon as real players take responsibility. Gives some hope for the world peace. However, I wonder where France and Egypt are going.

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Well should everyone agree to that peace treaty they should really have no reason to keep fighting.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Bah, the whole point of putting 40 odd ships in the med was to make sure that the cotton kept flowing,


Well should everyone agree to that peace treaty they should really have no reason to keep fighting.

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:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

:rolleyes:

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Gonna have to explain the smilie there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Also on the new map: the area around the future Suez canal is British.

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Egypt has no right to sell imperial land!

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Originally Posted by Kival

Egypt has no right to sell imperial land!

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Well then Sultan, get off your dicke Arsch and get that imperial land!

- Basileus Othon

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Originally Posted by Kival

Egypt has no right to sell imperial land!

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Indeed? Well we were in the impression that Egypt and the ottomans were separate entities until about a week ago, an impression your predecessor gave.

Well, if you want to come to an agreement for the true ownership of disputed resources it seems to be a good time to take into account the assets you owe us.
Britain is going to want those ships, rifles and Cannons back, with this new peace treaty the terms of their lend lease have expired, also there's the costs of all the gunpowder and shot that we've given you that cant be recovered for obvious reasons, and the expenses for all the ships we deployed to defend the shipping in the east med, mostly your shipping if I'm not mistaken. The amount of fortification and development that has been applied already to the Suez we obviously want paying for, there not being any real way to repossess effort or architecture, plus the expenses the Suez garrison accumulated maintaining order to the Suez and Damietta.

The cost upon final count amount to about 50 million pounds, to be paid upfront, no credit.

Oh, and the amount paid for the use of the Suez we will want repaid, seeing as the people who received the funds were apparently under your jurisdiction it is up to you to refund us the 45 million. You could try to take it back from the Egyptians, though after two wars the amount that is likely to have been spent by the time you regain control of their coffers.

We expect the 50 million at the end of the year (in game) and 45 if/when you win your war.

Or you could allow our possession of the Suez to continue, you keep our lent weaponry+ ships, we can allow your debts be forgotten and we will allow you to take in credit the parts of the 45 million you do not reclaim from the Egyptians, plus the 25% of the travel fees to be collected from the upcoming Suez canal. assuming you do win.

The Kaiser is pleased with the triumph of the arms of the princes of Europe, and wishes to commemorate the german blood spilled to achieve such a momentous outcome.

- Minister of Foreign Affairs

Joseph von Radowitz is, from now on, Minister of Foreign affairs, and plenipotentiary negotiator towards the German Confederation. May his service aid all the Germans. Alexander von Schleinitz is ambassador to the courts of Bavaria, Baden, Hesse, and Frankfurt.

- Wilhelm IV

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Gonna have to explain the smilie there.

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I do not want to get involved into this discussion. I just thought that this applause about the peace treaty is a bit to hasty. I haven't heard anything from Egypt and France, which seem to be major participants in this war. And there seem to be some issues undiscussed, like the status of Cyprus, the French claims at Levante, the British claims at the Suez.

Besides this I am taken by surprise that the British announce that they supported the Ottoman so massively. Had't they agreed not to sopprt them?

I am looking forward to see how this will go.

Dude, shh. :P


Either way, I said I wouldn't support them I didn't say I wouldn't rent out British guns and ships on credit to be paid back when they were in the position to pay it/when I felt like demanding it.
Giving it for free is support, renting it for later payment is merely a business transaction.

Edit: Wait a minute, french claims at levante? That means the french were attacking the egyptians not as a part of the ottoman war effort but as their own war?

Well, I always had difficulties to understand the finesse of British diplomacy.

French invaded the Levant to support his allies and to free the Arabians from Ottoman slavery. :2thumbsup:

how do we figure out what all kinds of stuff costs? or how long it takes to travel from place a to b by means of c?

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

Well, I always had difficulties to understand the finesse of British diplomacy.

French invaded the Levant to support his allies and to free the Arabians from Ottoman slavery. :2thumbsup:

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Interesting, that means that France either changed the agreed war goals of the alliance to include the Levant, which wasnt covered on their side of the agreement we made and making me not obligated to not interfere with that part of the conflict, or France started their own little war which my agreement of non involvement does not apply and I have no obligation to stay out of it. Either way it makes the diplomatic gymnastics I had to do, to keep the french from sinking what was left of the cotton trade without taking a side, pointless too.

Thank you, you've been a help.

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Originally Posted by Kival

Egypt has no right to sell imperial land!

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The British don't own the Suez area. It's a lease.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

I thought Crete was Egyptian!

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It is as far as I know.

I'll give a IC speech corcerning my views on certain points later today.

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

The British don't own the Suez area. It's a lease.

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Honestly bought and paid for, with expectations of paying for it's renewal in 100 years.

so its a lease with a long term...

like Hong Kong?

Hong Kong was not leased it was taken from us after the most unjust war ever fought by a strong nation against a weaker one.

Actually the island of lanatu, part of hong kong, was leased for 99 years
Franconius: Kinda, though I doubt that I'd let it go without at least attempts on a new lease, assuming by some miracle we reach the 1940's.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Honestly bought and paid for, with expectations of paying for it's renewal in 100 years.

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I'll have to check but wasn't it for 50 years?

BTW where is Csargo?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Actually the island of lanatu, part of hong kong, was leased for 99 years
Franconius: Kinda, though I doubt that I'd let it go without at least attempts on a new lease, assuming by some miracle we reach the 1940's.

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ooc: you dont have that yet, that arrangement wasnt made untill 50 years into the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

I'll have to check but wasn't it for 50 years?

BTW where is Csargo?

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OOC: I believe you are right with that one.
Edit: yep, 50. Was tempted to just take it at gunpoint at that price, but you know, that would have been helping France. :P

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

I'll have to check but wasn't it for 50 years?

BTW where is Csargo?

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I'm here, just trying to process all the information.

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Originally Posted by Csargo

I'm here, just trying to process all the information.

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I was waiting for a first IC statement from you before I made mine.

P.S. @Franconicus I would still like a public confirmations that Crete is Egytian.

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Originally Posted by Historical Timeline

In 1840, Egypt was forced by Palmerston to return Crete to direct Ottoman rule.

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Originally Posted by Concert of Europe's Timeline, 1842-1843

Egypt has entered the war with 25,000 men and are fighting the Turks. No major battle yet in 1843 but Turks are figuring out what to do.

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Originally Posted by Concert of Europe's Timeline, 1843

The Ottoman Sultan and Mohammed Ali of Egypt, while the Concert were discussing the future in Frankfurt, signed a peace Treaty in February

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Crete it's not egyptian.

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Originally Posted by Arjos

Crete it's not egyptian.

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While it might not be Egyptian officially it is occupied by Egyptian forces that removed the french ones a turn or two ago.

I fear Arjos is right, although the situation is a bit confusing. Crete belongs to the sultan, but I assume that the complete Egyptian fleet is there. Do not know who has claims on Cyprus (beside Greece and France), but it is definetly occupied by Egyptian soldiers.

Egypt anyway has to follow the peace treaty or it is violating his dutys as vassal.

Is the french ban of luxury imports still going on?

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Originally Posted by Kival

Egypt anyway has to follow the peace treaty or it is violating his dutys as vassal.

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I'm not entirely sure I'm still a vassal in the strict sense of the word. Mohamed Ali did agree to support the Ottoman Empire but I don't think he was bound by anything more than his word. Beside I, as his son Ibrahim Ali, am not bound by my fathers promises.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Is the french ban of luxury imports still going on?

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There has never been a ban on any kind of imports, just a general tax on the consume of any luxary good (imported or home produced). This was cancelled after one year because of a problems in the administration and replaced by a simple tax on land.
So as long as Napoleon does not change a thing, England can export as many luxaries as it likes.

Peasant Phill is right.The relationship between Ottoman Empire and Egypt is very complex. Titular, he is a vasall of the the Porte. Both sides were at war some years ago. Between the Sultan and his father there had been an agreement, that Mohamed Ali (not the boxer!) would get Palestine, Syria and Lebanon. Together with Egypt, these countries should be heritable. In return, Mohamed Ali promised to send troops to the defence of the Ottoman Empire.
Now some pre-conditions changed. First, Mohammed Ali is gone. Second, the war of the Ottomans against the Christians is over, though there are still French troops at Egypt. So there are several issues to solve:
1) Does the Sultan accept Ibrahim Pasha as heir of Egypt?
2) Does he also keep to the treaty and accept him as ruler over the Levant?
3) Does he accept that Mohammed Ali sold (or leased) land to the English?
4) Does Ibrahim feel tied to the treaty with the English at all?
5) Does anyone of both have the militaty power to defend their claims?
6) Would the Sultan support Egypt, if the war between Egypt and France would continue)

Another unclear point is the support of the English for Egypt and Ottoman. Greyblades sent me some info regarding Egypt, which I forwarded, but I only know that England sent weapons to the Sultan before the agreement of the Concert. What happened afterwards and which was the price for the help - I do not know.


Another open issue is the relationship between Egypt and China. Where do we start from. Before or after the first opium war? Maybe Greybaldes and the Stranger can discuss this.

i dont understand what you mean exactly, what special relationship do i have with egypt that it needs to be discussed? also i thought the year was 1847, that is 5 years after the first opium war, and i thought this was long passed and resolved? or am i understanding your question wrong?

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

i dont understand what you mean exactly, what special relationship do i have with egypt that it needs to be discussed? also i thought the year was 1847, that is 5 years after the first opium war, and i thought this was long passed and resolved? or am i understanding your question wrong?

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I believe Franc meant England instead of Egypt.
Though we can still be BFF's if you want.:on_wink:

hehe clearly i prefer before :D there is no way that under my sound leadership China wouldve gotten into this debacle in the first place!

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

I believe Franc meant England instead of Egypt.
Though we can still be BFF's if you want.:on_wink:

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ofcourse, you bring the shisha for tea today? I have some nice tobacco! we could also invite Greybaldes, maybe he can bring some opium...

Go on making chokes at my cost!
:sweatdrop: :whip:

Your Eminences,

You may have known my father, Mohamed Ali, as a great statesman. A man who led Egypt to its stature that it is now.
Some may also have known defeat at the hands of my armies. As I step into my father’s shoes as statesman, I aspire to continue the progress towards the great Egyptian nation my father had envisioned.

However, in order to do so, I may have to undo some works and deals of the great Mohamed Ali. My father was ill these last few months. It is entirely possible that some negotiators have taken advantage of the fragile mental state that had befallen the great Mohamed Ali. As such I don’t feel bound by promises made these last months.
I am, if nothing else, both realistic and accommodating. Everyone can reestablish talks and present their case to me. I’ll reconfirm past agreements if I deign them fair at the time they were made.

Furthermore, I like to stress that Egypt can be considered a separate entity from the Ottoman Empire. I do not deny the close bond history, religion and demography has posed on us. I intend to continue to act with this special bond in mind. I will NOT, however, let it endanger or curtail the progress to a greater Egyptian Nation.

On another note, I welcome the new peace. War has always been a high risk low pay-off affair. The Concert of Europe has, so far, been successful at keeping European soil free of the ravages of war.But let us not be ignorant to the fact that war itself has continued. Only the battlefield has shifted elsewere. The fight for influence, resources and land has continued outside of Europe relentlessly. My country is one of those places war had shifted to. As if directing your hunger and rivalries elsewhere is a solution for the powder keg that Europe still is. I assure you, only withholding from trying to trump one another will ensure lasting peace and prosperity.

With highest regards,
Ibrahim Ali
Khedive of Egypt
Protector of Crete and Cyprus

If it helps I found this trawling through my pms, it might help explain why the french strike happened:

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Originally Posted by SoFarSoGood

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

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Originally Posted by SoFarSoGood

Fran seems to like 'all the detail' (probably changed his mind now as his economy isn't doing too well)

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What do you mean by that presicely?

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Well it's not hard to work out... He allowed the 'right to strike' for starters, then 'closed' the main ports in the south and took all the shipping so trade drops and alot of people can't make a living. He then raises new taxes on luxury goods (which he exports more of than imports) and on cheap goods from non French colonies... Strike they will!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

Another open issue is the relationship between Egypt and China. Where do we start from. Before or after the first opium war? Maybe Greybaldes and the Stranger can discuss this.

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Considering the historical opium war was started before my run on the game first began and I let it end historically without my input, I say after.

i think we need a second war to settle this

:P

nah im fine with after (i would steamroll everyone otherwise and it wouldnt be a fun game ;))

That strike thing wasn't a great deal. And he got me wrong with the tax on luxuries (not a customn fee!), so I dropped it.

Alright, gentlemen, I think the diplomatic phase is going well. I still need some answers from some players and I hope that France will finish the reading of all relevant documents soon.
So let's go to the next phase, orders for the next year. Is it o.k. to set the deadline to Januar 1st?

Your orders for the next year may include:

Title (English orders for 1847)

1) Budget: spendings for military, research, infrastructure etc as well as introduction of new taxes; some of them may be uncertain, so just guess
2) Policy: new laws, reforms etc.
3) investments: in railroads, chanels, etc.
4) research: like "10 million for the research of a long distance rocket able to cary 1 t of black powder from Belfast to New York)
5) army: new recruitments (keep in mind that it takes time!), organisation and deployment, orders and campaign (again it takes time for orders to travel and for armies o move, do not forget logistics)
6) navy: basiclly the same
7) the rest; spies, diplomacy etc.

The income I gave you is the income of last year (!), this can be changed by changes in taxation or in economy.

You would do me a favour if you keep to the order above.

So enjoy the holidays!

new recruitments > does that mean i will constantly have to recruit soldiers to keep my army at a certain strength? or if i say i want my army to be 100k then it will just be maintained at that strength and recruitment means more i want 100k more than i want to replace the 1k who died of flue on the march?

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

new recruitments > does that mean i will constantly have to recruit soldiers to keep my army at a certain strength? or if i say i want my army to be 100k then it will just be maintained at that strength and recruitment means more i want 100k more than i want to replace the 1k who died of flue on the march?

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I think we should minimize the micromanagement. Reinforcement and resupply during peace time seems like something the lower members of government should be able to handle without our direct input.

GB is right. Recruitment means more that you have to tell if you want to enlarge (or reduce) your army. A different thing is if you loose big parts of your army in battle, so that you have to set up new divisions or corps.

ok, i prefer that too :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

Title (English orders for 1847)

1) Budget: spendings for military, research, infrastructure etc as well as introduction of new taxes; some of them may be uncertain, so just guess
2) Policy: new laws, reforms etc.
3) investments: in railroads, chanels, etc.
4) research: like "10 million for the research of a long distance rocket able to cary 1 t of black powder from Belfast to New York)
5) army: new recruitments (keep in mind that it takes time!), organisation and deployment, orders and campaign (again it takes time for orders to travel and for armies o move, do not forget logistics)
6) navy: basiclly the same
7) the rest; spies, diplomacy etc.

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So is this for everyone or just for England?

You should of course use your countries name instead of england.

if anyone cannot or doesnt want to send diplomats to China, please send me a message so we can work something out.

Russia welcomes the new Khedive of Egypt, hoping for him and the Sultan, to be able to define their relation.

But His Imperial Majesty, Czar Nikolai, wished to inform His Highness, Ibrahim Pasha, that Crete doesn't require his protection. Since by the Second Treaty of Edirne, it was granted to the Greek Kingdom of His Majesty, Basileus Othon.
We'd like for Egypt, and any other country, to respect the demilitarized waters, north of the island.

State Chancellor,
Aleksandr Gorchakov

Can we get a confirmation on this peace treaty please, I cant make any proper plans with such a point of divergance still unresolved.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Can we get a confirmation on this peace treaty please, I cant make any proper plans with such a point of divergance still unresolved.

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Confirmation by who?

It would seem the British are in De Nial :D

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Originally Posted by Kival

Confirmation by who?

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France, or whoever we are waiting for before saying "war over!"

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Originally Posted by Arjos

It would seem the British are in De Nial :D

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..."Nested Interactive Array Language"?
You mean De-Nile?

The Emperor of China wishes everyone a "Melly Chlistmass".

Blarg.

Britain, spreader of the christmas traditions wishes you all a merry christmas, 'Blarp' and has got the post feast pains.

Oh god. My stomach's beating up my kidneys for being scabs, I shouldnt have made strikes actions legal. ow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Can we get a confirmation on this peace treaty please, I cant make any proper plans with such a point of divergance still unresolved.

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The situation is plain to see: Ottoman made peace with Russia, Austria and Prussia. Greece agrees. Egypt welcomes this treaty, whatever this means. France says nothing at all.

By the way, I received already order from to players :2thumbsup: , one sent me already an extension :dizzy2: