How Long is Long Enough?

It's been nearly 70 yrs since the hostilities of WWII ended, and most of the major combatants, some who were mortal enemies, have made their peace and moved on. Some surviving US vets have made the pilgrimage to Iwo Jima and shared memories and comradie with former IJA vets, yet both were once engaged in some of the most brutal and inhuman combat of the war. Similar stories can be found amongst former ETO combatants of Germany, USA, UK, and the Soviet Union.

So why, after all this time, can the Chinese and Japanese not reach that place of letting go of past atrocities committed by people long dead, and move on?

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25411700

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Ma Licheng, who used to write for China's state-owned People's Daily newspaper, says he has counted 25 apologies from Japan to China overall. But none of these - nor Japan's financial aid to China, amounting to 3,650bn yen ($35.7bn; £21.8bn) over the years - have been covered in the Chinese media, he says, or taught to children at school.

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"What Japan did in China during the war was horrible," Ma wrote in his book Beyond Apologies. "But demanding that they kneel on the ground is pointless. The wording of the Japanese apologies may not seem enough to us, but to them, they were a huge step so we have to accept them and move on."

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Thoughts?

I believe they were close to letting it go, but the recent overlapping claims, Abe's visit to controversial shrine and general nationalistic tendencies are heating things up needlessly.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

I believe they were close to letting it go, but the recent overlapping claims...are heating things up needlessly.

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This.
I don't know if China's agenda is as crude as it appears but they seem to have a very hypocritical approach (even more so than other nations) towards placing claims and military development.
They've been on loggerheads with Japan, specially since of late Japan has increased its defence budget, which I believe is in direct response to China trying to strongarm its way in SE Asia.
In such a situation China just needs reasons to condemn Japan, to try and show them down in the international community.

Firstly, this being Valentine's day, and the "world politics" categorizer not appearing on the off topic forum group, I was expecting an ENTIRELY different thread....


I also think we would have a hard time, aside from Israel/Palestine, finding a conflict that was both that protracted and that vicious. It was all of the atrocity of the Eastern Front in the West, but it started 10 years earlier and lasted a few months longer. Add into that the million plus Chinese casualties -- er volunteer casualties -- in Korea (which I suspect China considers a ramification of the Japanese conquest of that region and its post-war demarcation) and you see a long trail of grievances China perceives. Japanese sentiment -- whatever we did, we have atoned as the only nation ever to be actively nuked; having virtually all of out cities eradicated; and having our cultures and norms shattered and re-made -- has trended towards "let's move on." The sentiments do not match.

Plus, while not expert on Asiatic languages, I am given to understand that both languages delineate two terms for people: Chinese/Japanese as a self referent and "barbarian" for other referent. Not a good start.

What doesnt help is that, while japan's atrocities were arguably greater than nazi germany's, they were never shamed for it while occuped by the americans and never gained the stigma germans have now about hyper-nationalism. Apparantly japan consider thier ancestors sacred and shaming them would have made the american occupation more difficult.
Because of this the japanese, thier politicians and media in particular, have a disconserting habit of glossing over thier war atrocities, or even glorifying it, which understandably does little good for thier post war relations.

Came expecting a discussion about penis sizes, left disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

What doesnt help is that, while japan's atrocities were arguably greater than nazi germany's, they were never shamed for it while occuped by the americans and never gained the stigma germans have now about hyper-nationalism. Apparantly japan consider thier ancestors sacred and shaming them would have made the american occupation more difficult.
Because of this the japanese, thier politicians and media in particular, have a disconserting habit of glossing over thier war atrocities, or even glorifying it, which understandably does little good for thier post war relations.

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There is truth in what you say but the issue is one of the Chinese Government.

Japan is turning into their bugbear. It is a convenient distraction and supports expansionist policies.

China has some 500 million people living in new found prosperity in its cities but it still has more than 800 million living in the countryside in absolute poverty. It is doing little to make their lives better and in many way they are making it worse.

Putting a focus on an evil neighbor and how they should be punished takes a little pressure off of themselves. China has had a number of scandals that involve high government officials or their families. Dredging up old wounds from the past is just a good way to drop out of the daily topic of discussion and instill a bit of nationalist fervor for good measure.

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Firstly, this being Valentine's day, and the "world politics" categorizer not appearing on the off topic forum group, I was expecting an ENTIRELY different thread....

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Came expecting a discussion about penis sizes, left disappointed.

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Don't need to tell you where you can find those.....:creep:

~D

But in a sense, it is about "size":

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I believe is in direct response to China trying to strongarm its way in SE Asia. In such a situation China just needs reasons to condemn Japan, to try and show them down in the international community.

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Japan is turning into their bugbear. It is a convenient distraction and supports expansionist policies.

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I think proximity has much to do with it, as well as Japan's long-held view that SE Asia was their "neck of the woods" {...the SE Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere of WWII vintage, anyone}

Racism is a factor...Japan long considered the Chinese and Koreans as inferiors...

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japan's atrocities were arguably greater than nazi germany's

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Notsure this is the case. The Japanese certainly made no bones about what they did...the Germans were more secretive and the true extent of the Holocaust was not revealed until the wars' end. The Allies certainly had their share...the fire-bombing of Japanese cities, Dresden, the "Bombs"...{all well debated topics, but not here, please:pray:}

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Because of this the japanese, thier politicians and media in particular, have a disconserting habit of glossing over thier war atrocities, or even glorifying it, which understandably does little good for thier post war relations.

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Could you give examples of this? as I am not aware of any Japanese habit for glossing over events like Nanking, Bataan, Manila, etc.....

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Notsure this is the case. The Japanese certainly made no bones about what they did...the Germans were more secretive and the true extent of the Holocaust was not revealed until the wars' end. The Allies certainly had their share...the fire-bombing of Japanese cities, Dresden, the "Bombs"...{all well debated topics, but not here, please}

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When I said they were greater I was thinking more in a numbers definition. As wikipedia so nicely provides:

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Historian Chalmers Johnson has written that:

It may be pointless to try to establish which World War Two Axis aggressor, Germany or Japan, was the more brutal to the peoples it victimised. The Germans killed six million Jews and 20 million Russians (i.e. Soviet citizens); the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese. Both nations looted the countries they conquered on a monumental scale, though Japan plundered more, over a longer period, than the Nazis. Both conquerors enslaved millions and exploited them as forced labourers—and, in the case of the Japanese, as (forced) prostitutes for front-line troops. If you were a Nazi prisoner of war from Britain, America, Australia, New Zealand or Canada (but not the Soviet Union) you faced a 4% chance of not surviving the war; (by comparison) the death rate for Allied POWs held by the Japanese was nearly 30%.[39]

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It is of course hard to quantify atrocity, numbers dont really help much, if a city was nuked and 6 million died in the blast it wouldnt be equal to the holocaust just because it was of similar size. 6 Million killed in an instant, with barely a moment spent in pain before death, it's not the same as 6 million being hunted down, worked to near death before being murdered in gas chambers, all spread over a 3-7 year period. But when I look at some of the horrors of the pacific theater; that of decapitations, burying people alive, using chemical weapons, torturing POWs, cannibalism, it starts to look rather similar.

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Could you give examples of this? as I am not aware of any Japanese habit for glossing over events like Nanking, Bataan, Manila, etc.....

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I fear you may have caught me in a case of hyperbole, while there are certainly examples of japanese people or organizations attempting to gloss over the atrocities, for example:
http://animestop.info/comfort-women-...t-prostitutes/
http://animestop.info/ishihara-our-k...-it-for-money/
They all come from the right wing fringe groups of the japanese political spectrum which, now that I think about it, is not a valid a reason to generalize about the entire culture. If it was; I could say that the americans have a unfortunate habit of regretting how the civil war freed the slaves, just from what Rush Limbaugh spews on his show every day.
They exist, much like the BNP, but like the BNP in Britain the influence of these radicals is not large enough to judge the country by and I was wrong to do so here.

Though it is somewhat disconcerting that the mayor in the second example was still elected in the capital 4 times in a row in spite of his somewhat "politically incorrect" views. The more I read about the man the more I think the comparison to rush limbaugh is appropriate

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

...They all come from the right wing fringe groups of the japanese political spectrum which, now that I think about it, is not a valid a reason to generalize about the entire culture. If it was; I could say that the americans have a unfortunate habit of regretting how the civil war freed the slaves, just from what Rush Limbaugh spews on his show every day.
They exist, much like the BNP, but like the BNP in Britain the influence of these radicals is not large enough to judge the country by and I was wrong to do so here.

Though it is somewhat disconcerting that the mayor in the second example was still elected in the capital 4 times in a row in spite of his somewhat "politically incorrect" views. The more I read about the man the more I think the comparison to rush limbaugh is appropriate

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Limbaugh is an ardent conservative, somewhat of a reactionary, and has a bit of a narcissist streak. In his ideal political world, the government safety net would shrink by an order of magnitude (not disappear), government regulatory powers would shrink back to Reagan-era levels or a bit lower, and defense spending would increase by at least a half point of GNP. He joyously baits political liberals (US def), hoping to get them in an uproar.

Regret the end of Slavery? Nonsense.

It is amazing who can get elected Mayor of a Capital city though [one, two, three, four] -- what is it about a capital that generates this?

I'll leave it to the persons who were actually affected. I don't associate the Germans with ww2, but a lot of older people still do, there are still some open wounds. Who am I to tell them to get over it already.

It's not possible to say how long it will take. Some groups might never let it go.

http://rt.com/usa/native-american-immigration-man-500/

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Originally Posted by The Lurker Below

It's not possible to say how long it will take. Some groups might never let it go.

http://rt.com/usa/native-american-immigration-man-500/

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That's awesome. ~D

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

It is amazing who can get elected Mayor of a Capital city though [one, two, three, four] -- what is it about a capital that generates this?

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London has elected Ken Livingston and Boris Johnson so far. Should we be going for loonier candidates?

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I don't associate the Germans with ww2, but a lot of older people still do, there are still some open wounds.

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And as the number of people who were directly affected diminishes, what is the purpose of carrying the bitterness into the future? If the vets of the Iwo Jima battle, for instance, can set aside all the terrible things they did to each other on that piece of sulfur rock, why can't others?

The story about the unnamed Native American might make for a "politically correct" story, but it's rather pointless, no? Obviously, 330 million US citizens are not suddenly going to leave their homes because the pilgrims landed at Plymouth. I would venture that most nations now in existence, did so at the expense of someone else:shrug:

So is it just a hidden political agenda to pursue when it comes to relations between China and Japan, or something else?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

London has elected Ken Livingston and Boris Johnson so far. Should we be going for loonier candidates?

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Absolutely. Think of the fun you could have with Eric Idle doing a stint, or even Lucy Collett. You've established far too reasonable a standard so far.

I only reconciled with the Germans to take on the Russians.

That is my stance.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

I only reconciled with the Germans to take on the Russians.

That is my stance.

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I strongly urge you to reconsider your stance. Reconcile with the Germans for their beer instead.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

I strongly urge you to reconsider your stance. Reconcile with the Germans for their beer instead.

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Weissbier tastes like crap. Going to Germany ranks among the biggest disappointments in my life.

Sorry Germany, England beats you in yet another field.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Weissbier tastes like crap. Going to Germany ranks among the biggest disappointments in my life.

Sorry Germany, England beats you in yet another field.

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Weissbier is Bavarian.

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Originally Posted by Husar

Weissbier is Bavarian.

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Have you finally succeeded in throwing Bavaria out of Germany?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Have you finally succeeded in throwing Bavaria out of Germany?

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No, they have their advantages.
But I agree that Weissbier is not one of them.

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Originally Posted by Husar

No, they have their advantages.
But I agree that Weissbier is not one of them.

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Lederhosen. Anything else?

Off topic: Weissbier is just wheat beer, of which there are legions, not just in Bavaria, but if you want a good one, of which there are a select few, you would have to go to Bavaria to get it, as well as being a little educated on who brews what.

There are more Types of beer in Bavaria than most other places have breweries. Even the hyper critical should be able to find beer they like, or stay damn drunk for a few days trying.

Just the same, judging all German beer by some unknown weissbier is like judging all beer to taste like Miller Lite.

Back on track: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/10/op...-on-japan.html

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...64802711547872

So Japan is still a militaristic feudal state ruled by Lord Voldemort. Why no just nuke the suckers?

I went through all the beers they offered in pubs in Berlin.

I was disappointed. There was one drinkable, but I can't remember its name.... "Dunkel" something.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Weissbier tastes like crap. Going to Germany ranks among the biggest disappointments in my life

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It's pretty good when it's really warm. For the really good beers, you -> Belgium

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

I went through all the beers they offered in pubs in Berlin.

I was disappointed. There was one drinkable, but I can't remember its name.... "Dunkel" something.

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Going to Berlin to drink beer is like going to Stockholm to find good Mexican food.

It is a crap shoot and the locals are not help at all in knowing what is good or bad.

Prussians are to beer what American Bureaucracy is to efficiency.

I don’t know what Brandenburg does well. There must be something.

Most larger beers have been taken over by Heinekens, or some of the American Breweries. The results are disappointingly obvious.

Next time you go for Beer try Munich. The Airport is also very good. I don’t think you found that great in Berlin either.

Better luck next time.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Going to Berlin to drink beer is like going to Stockholm to find good Mexican food.

It is a crap shoot and the locals are not help at all in knowing what is good or bad.

Prussians are to beer what American Bureaucracy is to efficiency.

I don’t know what Brandenburg does well. There must be something.

Most larger beers have been taken over by Heinekens, or some of the American Breweries. The results are disappointingly obvious.

Next time you go for Beer try Munich. The Airport is also very good. I don’t think you found that great in Berlin either.

Better luck next time.

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Drinking beer wasn't the purpose of the trip. It's just something that always happens when I'm travelling...

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There are more Types of beer in Bavaria than most other places have breweries. Even the hyper critical should be able to find beer they like, or stay damn drunk for a few days trying.

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Here's an idea....why not invite Chinese and Japanese leaders to a big party and serve.....Bavarian beer:idea2:

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The flow of hate comes while China is building up its military, leaving its neighbors on edge. Beijing will spend $148 billion on its military this year, up from $139 billion in 2013. It launched its first aircraft carrier in 2012, and is building a fleet of submarines that it hopes will outnumber the American fleet.

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Not much good is going to come from this.....:no:

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Not much good is going to come from this

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I remember doing some research back in 2010; I discovered that in the past decade, China's defense budget had increased by over 500%, in constant USD.

Now, that's working with the stated budget. Going by estimates of the black budget for defence, it was more like 750%.

So, in the past 15 years China's defence spending has increased anywhere from 500-1000% - impressive. You don't spend like that just for show.

Or maybe you do? :shrug:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...udget_2012.png

Going by that graph, which perhaps uses low estimates, and the figure you quoted, it seems that it could even be something like 1500%-2000%!

Damn it China, at this rate you're going to ruin it for people who complain that the US spends as much as the next X countries or whatever...

I had a long thought about this subject. And I just realised that the blame others Nations or populations for not forgetting or forgiving is a little bit odd.
I am a French leaving in UK and there is not one year without a TV series or show about the war against the French, celebration of Waterloo, Trafalgar (2 commemorations in 2005) or Agincourt. One of the most sold newspapers in UK is openly Francophobic. So, the perpetuation of certain memory is not foreign to our societies.
Then, we are not very comfortable as well with our past crimes. We debate a lot in this forum about History and who start what (there is again a thread about who start WW1) and positions are still touchy.
I, as an individual, never experiment a invasion or destruction on my country. However, I still feel anger when I see on a documentary the German Troops parading in Paris in 1940, and the German population celebrating Hitler for the revenge. Not that I will start a new war against Germany or Germans, but the feeling is still there. And campaigns like the “cheese-eater surrendering monkeys” from the recent past by the US and UK media didn’t help. And do note that France never fought against the USA (ok, a lot against UK). So the hate against the French in the USA is not based on real things but on a perception built by association with the UK history by media and politicians (as even Bush had to concede in a vain try to cure what his administration started, France was historically the first ally of the USA even before they existed).
So, can we blame the Chinese who really suffered of real aggression and rapes and slaughters from the Japanese to still have strong feeling against Japan? What time is needed to heal the wounds? From my French experience in UK, it will be never done as much it can be used to canalise and divert the population’s attention from real problems within the country, or when it can be used to raise the moral of a country…

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Originally Posted by Brenus

I had a long thought about this subject. And I just realised that the blame others Nations or populations for not forgetting or forgiving is a little bit odd.
I am a French leaving in UK and there is not one year without a TV series or show about the war against the French, celebration of Waterloo, Trafalgar (2 commemorations in 2005) or Agincourt. One of the most sold newspapers in UK is openly Francophobic. So, the perpetuation of certain memory is not foreign to our societies.

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The so-called Francophobia isn't really vitriolic though. It's more of a sporting rivalry, just that it goes back a few more years than most. You don't get Englishmen ranting about atrocities committed by the French, or anything of that sort. Just respond with banter in the same vein, reeling off a list of French victories against the English. Although on the military front there aren't many things that hit the English nerve (since we've rarely been invaded), and while combined American-French victories are probably closest to that, they don't come close to the kind of ammunition that Brits have against the French (eg. Syria 1941 - the last British victory over the French, or Mers el-Kebir 1940, the last British naval victory over the French, or even Torch 1942, the last American victory over the French).

It is an interesting point, though, precisely because it is more of a rivalry than true hatred. France and Britain have been allies for more than a hundred years. German occupation of France was relatively mild, at least compared to German occupation of Russia, Poland or Yugoslavia and Japanese occupation of China. That is coupled with the fact that there has been a pretty strong Franco-German alliance in the last 50 years. Maybe it wasn't always officially recognized as such, but in terms of things done, Germany and France has been each other's primary ally for the last half of century. Even though Americans often emphasize the ferocity of their war against Japan and inhuman conditions in which it was fought, let's face it, compared to fighting in eastern Europe or China, it was nothing out of the ordinary, one could say even it was actually pretty tame.

All that being said, there is still at least uneasiness about it. The Chinese and Korean reaction to recent Japanese actions are definitely more understandable in the light.

“You don't get Englishmen ranting about atrocities committed by the French, or anything of that sort. Just respond with banter in the same vein, reeling off a list of French victories against the English. Although on the military front there aren't many things that hit the English nerve (since we've rarely been invaded),).”
Demo of what I said: Celebration by English of victories against the French. I could now list the impressive victories against the English it would just be another demo. We don’t think that time is gone and we have let it go. To be frank, my first reaction towards this answer was exactly this, then I realised what I was about to do. Due to the National Identity Building, the English really believed they won the 100 years’ war in Agincourt. When you say “and while combined American-French victories are probably closest to that, they don't come close to the kind of ammunition that Brits have against the French (eg. Syria 1941 - the last British victory over the French, or Mers el-Kebir 1940, the last British naval victory over the French, or even Torch 1942, the last American victory over the French” it is a denial of one of the greatest lost of territory in History. Just do note that the French (Vichy) won against the British Fleet in Dakar (sorry, too much to resist) (I am ashamed). For the anecdote, my former Father-in Law was a Free French Navy, fighting with the Royal Navy at the time. The victory of the Vichy French against the English Fleet calmed down the resentment of the Free French against the Royal Navy. Funny how we humans are working...

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Originally Posted by Brenus

“You don't get Englishmen ranting about atrocities committed by the French, or anything of that sort. Just respond with banter in the same vein, reeling off a list of French victories against the English. Although on the military front there aren't many things that hit the English nerve (since we've rarely been invaded),).”
Demo of what I said: Celebration by English of victories against the French. I could now list the impressive victories against the English it would just be another demo. We don’t think that time is gone and we have let it go. To be frank, my first reaction towards this answer was exactly this, then I realised what I was about to do. Due to the National Identity Building, the English really believed they won the 100 years’ war in Agincourt. When you say “and while combined American-French victories are probably closest to that, they don't come close to the kind of ammunition that Brits have against the French (eg. Syria 1941 - the last British victory over the French, or Mers el-Kebir 1940, the last British naval victory over the French, or even Torch 1942, the last American victory over the French” it is a denial of one of the greatest lost of territory in History. Just do note that the French (Vichy) won against the British Fleet in Dakar (sorry, too much to resist) (I am ashamed). For the anecdote, my former Father-in Law was a Free French Navy, fighting with the Royal Navy at the time. The victory of the Vichy French against the English Fleet calmed down the resentment of the Free French against the Royal Navy. Funny how we humans are working...

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A lot of angst over nothing special, or as Shakespeare almost said, much owt about nowt. Like I said, the so-called Francophobia is akin to sporting rivalry. Fans of sporting teams don't talk about their losses, unless they happened in "plucky defeats" (and British history glorifies enough of these, including Dunkirk). They glory in victories over the local rivals with whom they have a long history. But through all the talk of everlasting rivalries, it still takes a back seat when more important things like life are concerned. Hence remembrances of the deceased are honoured by all sides alike, no matter their supposed rivalry. It doesn't mean the rivalry never existed, nor does it mean the rivalry overrides everything. The sporting rivalry is just something to talk about, a cultural and an identity tag, but it's something that will be put aside when more important things are discussed.

For another version of this sporting rivalry, see the Anglo-American friendly antagonism. There's plenty of needle there, and they have more ammunition to aim at us than you do, being much bigger and more successful than us. But all of it disappears when we have a common cause, and we think the same way more often than not.

Also, when you cite the 100 years war (decisive defeat for the English) and Dakar, that's the spirit. We win some and we lose some, c'est la vie. Just because we don't mention the losses doesn't mean we didn't lose. It just means we find something else to banter about. None of all that stuff remotely approached the unpleasantness that the Chinese and Koreans experienced under the Japanese, so we should be able to brush it away with a smile and a shrug. For all that we celebrate Agincourt, we don't currently hold any territory in mainland France, and that's something we don't even try to deny. Well, maybe apart from Calais on weekends and bank holidays.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...udget_2012.png

Going by that graph, which perhaps uses low estimates, and the figure you quoted, it seems that it could even be something like 1500%-2000%!

Damn it China, at this rate you're going to ruin it for people who complain that the US spends as much as the next X countries or whatever...

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Blue water navy

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Even though Americans often emphasize the ferocity of their war against Japan and inhuman conditions in which it was fought, let's face it, compared to fighting in eastern Europe or China, it was nothing out of the ordinary, one could say even it was actually pretty tame.

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This statement is simply baffling to me.~:confused: The island battles waged by the US against Japan (Tarawa, Marianas, Peleliu, Iwo Jima, Okinawa) had some of the highest casualty per troops involved, as any battle anywhere during WWII. I've mentioned Iwo several times because the fighting there was as brutal and inhumane as any soldier of any era had to endure. No need for me to go into details with today's web info-net. And yet, some of these same vets from both sides can gather periodically at Iwo, put the brutality of the past aside, and honor the men who fought and fell there.

On the other hand, the Reunions of Honor are more of a politically-motivated event and don't necessarily have much to do with the goodwill and respect the veterans of the respective sides may or may not have come to share for each other.

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On the other hand, the Reunions of Honor are more of a politically-motivated event and don't necessarily have much to do with the goodwill and respect the veterans of the respective sides may or may not have come to share for each other

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And what politics are involved, exactly? The USA and Japan have long been allies in the PTO, so of what use are political maneuverings?

In any case, some of the latest hyperbole:

http://truthernews.wordpress.com/201...nawa-imminent/

Taylor is a weirdo, to be sure, but many of the links in that article make for an interesting read.....

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

It is an interesting point, though, precisely because it is more of a rivalry than true hatred. France and Britain have been allies for more than a hundred years. German occupation of France was relatively mild, at least compared to German occupation of Russia, Poland or Yugoslavia and Japanese occupation of China. That is coupled with the fact that there has been a pretty strong Franco-German alliance in the last 50 years. Maybe it wasn't always officially recognized as such, but in terms of things done, Germany and France has been each other's primary ally for the last half of century. Even though Americans often emphasize the ferocity of their war against Japan and inhuman conditions in which it was fought, let's face it, compared to fighting in eastern Europe or China, it was nothing out of the ordinary, one could say even it was actually pretty tame.

All that being said, there is still at least uneasiness about it. The Chinese and Korean reaction to recent Japanese actions are definitely more understandable in the light.

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What the Japanese did during the fall of Singapore set the tone for how they were seen throughout the war. I don't think even the Germans and Russians made it a matter of policy to kill the wounded in their hospital beds.

Having said that - all those Japanese soldiers are dead now.

Having said that, I don't understand the whole thing about East Asian cultures and ancestors, so maybe there the sins of the fathers are visited upon the sons.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Having said that, I don't understand the whole thing about East Asian cultures and ancestors, so maybe there the sins of the fathers are visited upon the sons.

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There is a lot of ancestor worship. So imagine a bunch of people worshipping -insert bad person here- and this is why they get cranky.