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I may have just not paid attention and I know I don't know enough about history to formulate an informed opinion, but where are troops with blunt trauma weapons in MTW? I want men with maces and morning stars. For that matter, why are peasants armed with spears instead of clubs?
Because clubs are weapons only in AD&D and
bar fights - they are useful against
knives, but not much good against anything
that really extends your reach. Making a
spear is not that hard, and it is a huge
improvement. Maces and morningstars are
real weapons, but they are expensive, and
should be reserved for high end troops. I
assume that the knights (which the game
pictures as using lances all the time)
switch to a hand to hand weapon once they
are engaged.
What do foot knights use, anyway? I have to
admit I never use them. Fanatics might use
clubs, but that's because their are too busy
talking the voices in their heads to put
some effort into arming themselves.
I could be wrong but weren't the clergy restricted to the use of blunt weapons. Not the religious orders but noble prelates. I seem to recall a Norman Bishop weilding a mace at the battle of Hastings.
Gothic Knights have maces, no?
Dismounted chivalric knights use polearms. I believe longbowmen use hammers.
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COGITOERGOVINCO
Fanatics use blunt weapons, so do some of the Muslim troops. Look a little more closely and you'll find they've been included.
it seems that the longbowmen use axes no?
Quote Originally posted by Nelson:
Dismounted chivalric knights use polearms. I believe longbowmen use hammers.
[/QUOTE]
there is something about the concept of getting attacked with hammer that really scares me.
i ok with getting impaled on a spear point
but i cant handle the thought of getting bashed in the head with a hammer !
along this line, it would be nice to see prisoners getting slaughtered too.
yea that would be cool to see people carry maces and big battle axes.
Can I make a forest of death?
What I really would like is the ablility to make a forest of people impaled on pikes ... NOW THATS GOOD FAMILY FUN!
I own a few medieval weapons and I must say my warhammer is my favorite.
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.com died ... so I am here ...
.com refugee 123321003
you could display the heads of your slain foes on the battlefield before the battle, as a scare tactic. like the old kings used to do.
Some of you people are scary! Very scary!!
Giblets anyone? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
Maces:
Longbowmen
Vikings
Ottoman Infantry
Gothic Knights
Mamluk Cavalry
Axes:
Urban Militia
Militia Sergeants
Varangian Guard
Gallowglass
Gothic Foot Knights
Woodsmen
Abyssian Guard
Too bored to post polearms http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
both goth foot knights and gallowglasses use two-handed swords. longbowmen and vikings use axes :P
Quote Originally posted by Kroney:
gallowglasses use two-handed swords.[/QUOTE]
Love those claymores .. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
i can't for the world remember what the gendarmes are using, but if they use swords, then only fanatics and mounted gothic knights use blunt weapons.
Quote Originally posted by DojoRat:
I could be wrong but weren't the clergy restricted to the use of blunt weapons. Not the religious orders but noble prelates. I seem to recall a Norman Bishop weilding a mace at the battle of Hastings.
[/QUOTE]
something like that, historiacally clergy would provide sergical procedures, i.e. cutting people in insanitary situations to probably release evil spirits/ make it far far worse. With the advent of doctors and supposed proper medicine clergy were banned from such practices and hence from wielding instruments that cut or draw blood, and so in war were resricted to crushing and bashing weapons like maces and hammers. I'm sure someone else could enlighten you better than me as to the details.
Hey Guys,
Just thought it odd that none of the MTW units seem to carry Maces.
I'm talking from the good ol' spike studded ball on a chain at the end of a stick, to the plain old Club style.
Seems odd, because in a Meelee, this was the weapon of choice for many Medieval Warriors.
The point being, that in the press of close combat, if your shoulder to shoulder with your foe, you're hardly going to be swinging your sword around like a bat.
Close combat often ended up with people basically trying to club each other to death.
So before they go and relocate this to the Monastary, who wants to see Units with Maces in MTW?
They definately should get an advantage for close combat.
What do the rest of you think?
Azrael
Maces were not the be-all and end-all of close combat weapons. Knives, hammers, Falchions, axes and mallets were all used too.
All such weapons are considered as part of het combat factor - it doesn't matter what the weapon shwn in the graphic is - the only effects are the combat factors and effects.
I'm sure you (or someone) could modify a weapon image if you really want to see them.
You are of course correct, the only unit in the game with a mace is the mounted gothic knight. It is infact true that the longsword was especially as armour imroved increasingly a less effectual weapon and more of a status symbol. Against strong armour a sword becomes a bashing weapon with the ability to thrust a killing blow once you had bashed an opponant into a compramising position. Granted against lesser armour it could cause serious damage. Much more effective are as you mention the mace, various polearms and pole axes, well weighted hand axes and my personal favourite the two-handed sword.
Actually, I believe a studded mace on a chain is a "morning-star", but I'm being too picky.
Maces are great concussive weapons. You can knock someone out by hitting them in the helmet. Light armor (padded, cloth, leather, studded leather, etc.) doesn't help much against a mace.
For those who took an oath not to raise a sword against a Christian knight-- the mace was a handy implement. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif
there was a previous thread on this somewhere...maybe I'll go look for it. In the meantime, other untis that use maces are fanatics and (I think) Kerns
Fanatics use clubs, not maces http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
Kerns use maces though. I think.
this thread has been combined with an older thread entitled "Blunt Trauma weapons?" in order to get more information together. I apologize if this causes any confusion in the reading.
I remember the unit descriptions from the demo files. The Ghazi are supposed to have maces that do "terrible damage".
M@A should use a whole variety of weapons, and have a bonus against armour due to that. Then again, following logic and history... M@A were infamous for their lack of conformity amongst weapon and armour styles. M@A is a very catch-all term afterall. There were all kinds of'em. Baisicly any professional soldier not of Noble heritage were M@As. Thus you chould even say Pikemen and Halbardiers are also M@A...Thus M@A as a unit should be eliminated and instead replaced by a few more specalized FORMS of M@A. That includeing Macemen, a infamous part of ecspecially western europe armies. As a genereal reference, Axes and Hammers, which had the same effect, would be considered Macemen. They usually wore light armour, were cheap, and had a powerfull attack yet little defense.
the spikey ball on the end of a chain is called a flail not a mace or a morning star http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif
Have a look at this page:
http://members.aol.com/dargolyt/TheForge/BLNTMAIN.HTM
Basically a mace is a handle with a hard striking object (non-specific) stuck to the top.
A flail is the same as a mace but has a chain seperating the handle and the striking object.
A morning star is a type of ball and chain mace (and therefore a type of flail) but the striking object is always a spiked ball.
Battle axes and hammers are in there under the terms Halberd, Bill and Pole weapons (ie Militia Sergeant)
I mean the main difference between a poleaxe and a polehammer of similar lateish period is that one has a blunt round bit where the other has a funny shaped blade. Compared to all the other pointy bits, hooks and spikes on them both, this is not a major difference.
so i think the conclusion is that the weapons in the game are generalisations to weapon types. MAA and foot knight can be assumed to carry their favourite melee weapon relevant to their tech period. Those with specialist weapons like polearms carry some kind of variation of this. Militia carry melee wepon but no shield, peasants have spears, sythes hammers and farming tools. Eash unit can also be assumed to carry a secondard hand weapon of either a sword, axe or dagger or something that could be carried in conjunction with their main armourment. Conclusion being - only so many unit sprites avaliable and too many people to please so generalisation rules the day.
Just you wait till they incorporate the Massive engine into it... They are going to aren't they? I hope so http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
Thanx for the infoQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Whats the 'massive' engine ?
Or am I missing something simple http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif