Just thought someone had better post this. Won't someone think of the cheeldren?
Looking forwards to a lot of whataboutery.
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Just thought someone had better post this. Won't someone think of the cheeldren?
Looking forwards to a lot of whataboutery.
I wonder if Rotherham will be the one that sets the ball rolling, a bit like with the celebrity sex abuse scandals.
Already, stuff is coming out about similar goings on in Glasgow. Glasgow is probably the only city in Scotland where you will get anything like the sort of immigrant communities you see in England.
If we start getting the same stories from London, Liverpool, Manchester, Bradford etc, then this could potentially be huge... possibly the end of the multicultural experiment. We could deal with the occasional terrorist loony, but mass systematic child abuse is going to get people's blood boiling and completely destroy any appetite for immigration.
400 kilometers northwest from me.........England. :no:
It's been going on in Keighley for more than a decade and it's common knowledge it's in Bradford too. Oh it's just the tip alright.
Just to re-cap; Rotherham was the local authority that removed the children from their carers because they were racist scum who voted UKIP.
Here's my bit of whataboutery. What about your thoughts on what should happen? Should we prosecute all those who brought this about, as a criminal prosecution? Or should we bring in some anti-foreigner policy as a statement of intent? I see stirring from you on being anti this and anti that, but I don't see anything substantial on what you'd like to see happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
How about prosecuting those in authority with conspiracy and perverting the course of justice for a start. Some prison time and loss of job and pension. Perhaps these 'common purpose' types might actually start to do their jobs.Quote:
but I don't see anything substantial on what you'd like to see happen.
The real racism here is that those in Rotherham who colluded and encouraged this sort of behaviour obviously hold that brown skinned people have an inherent lack of morals compared to the indigenous population.
Need a précis or good link for the particulars please....
Those who refused to look at this didn't think they had a lack of morals but were scared that they'd be accused of picking on a specific community (here in the UK we now have separate communities). In essence everyone passed the buck and decided that the good career more was not making a decision.
It has been mentioned that white girls are easier "prey" than those from their own communities coupled with reporting such things is dishonourable in certain communities so go unreported.
What to do? I'd say integration of all persons into the English culture especially on language and practices. But that boat has long sailed.
So, lock them up, write a really expensive report and then pretend it won't happen elsewhere.
~:smoking:
Something for everyone. A left wing blogger in a right wing paper.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...-find-out-why/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...must-quit.html
I wouldn't mind doing that even now. I'd even agree with the deporting foreign fighters idea, possibly combined with recognising ISIS as a state so that anyone who turns up over there can be expelled to the state they'd rather be in. And if any of these cry-wolf so-called anti-racism bodies are government or similarly funded (the one so-called representing footballers is particularly odious), cut them loose. They have freedom of speech, but it doesn't mean we have to fund them with taxpayers' money.Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Neither "left" or "right" wing persons think that not integrating is a good idea.
Good to see the conclusion is we need a review and... then something must be done. Oh good - really moving things on, then.
~:smoking:
The idea of recognising them as a state so they could be viewed as citizens of said state is interesting - but probably not one that would be accepted as if persons can be forcibly given foreign statehood would be a game that everyone could engage in to get rid of people they don't like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
It was interesting that an English cricketer who is ethnically Indian got a lot of abuse from other ethnic Indian English people in the UK. What was done? Erm... nothing. Would that be allowed if white people were doing so? I highly doubt it - reducing racism should be something undertaken regardless of ethnicity of the purpotrator.
~:smoking:
Here in Alaska, and especially the villages, the natives who do try to integrate into normal American culture/religion are ostracized for following "the white man's" way of life. We helped a black church get a special meeting going, and there were black singing groups who would not come because a white church was helping out. Racism is wrong, no matter which way it goes. And I think everyone agrees, no matter their race, they should have been reported there in Rotherham. A culture is bound for trouble when people do not integrate. America used to be built on people coming over and becoming American. Nowadays they are lumped into groups (African-Americans, Native Americans, Hispanic-Americans) instead of just American, even if they are umpteenth generation American. By that rule most Americans are English-American or Irish-American. Start a civil rights campaign, the rights of the English-Americans are being trod on!:crazy: I am not Dutch-American, I am an American:unitedstates: with one Dutch parent.:netherlands: If Fragony is reading, in the Netherlands, don't you need to learn Dutch in order to get a visa in the Netherlands?Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
That would be the tea party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Butler
Also, are you forgetting the existence of the nativist movements? And the extreme abuse directed at Irish immigrants?
That was definitely wrong, against the Irish. I am not sure what you mean by "nativist movements", I am not familiar with that term. The bottom line is, racism is wrong, no matter if it white-on-black, black-on-white, native-on-hispanic, whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Wiki linky on nativismy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Butler
OK, I get it. I certainly don't oppose legal immigration, but I don't believe in special rights based on race or whatever. Now I don't mind giving citizens certain rights, such as voting, that non-citizens don't have, but if it is in the American Bill of Rights, those should apply to all who come here LEGALLY (I am speaking in America only, other countries may do things differently and that is their business). The Bill of Rights was an acknowledgement of those rights, not the government granting them, so those apply to all.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
HoreTore, I have been wondering for a long time...what is crying on the pitch?
Having read those linky'd pieces.
Yuck. Full stop.
Trials and jail time need to be a central component of the response and that response should not be delayed.
After Hannibal the Cannibal (Luis Suarez) broke down in tears after loosing the title last season, that's what Stoke'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Butler
ex-concentre back Robert Huth tweeted.
I am surprised that someone hasn't taken a crowbar to this guy -- his behavior isn't just against the rules it is literally criminal.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
What's wrong with munching on human flesh while the owner is still alive? It's not like it happens regularly. He's only tried to eat 3 people so far, and there was at least a 2 year gap between the first and the second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
I am all FOR nouvelle cuisine, but I draw the line at sentients. One should not attempt to consume a being that has its own existential angst to resolve. I believe that that should hold true post mortem (save in the direst of emergencies) and pretty much always when in victus mode.
If you knew anything about history, you'd know of the "custom of the sea". And corollary to that is the "custom of LFC".Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
The North of England is always behind Westminster in fashion. This is like the Catholic Abuse scandal - they stopped doing it years before we found out.Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Likewise the scandal in Birmingham, less about Muslims and more about craven local authorities.
I like him.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Got a problem with this though
"One thing though ; Because this I do know. The days when we could simply ignore the issue are over. Rotherham represented a watershed. Denial led the to the systematic rape of thousands of our children. It is no longer an option."
This was a proffesional gang operating in several other cities, shouldn't be confused with other problems.
Not for a visa or working permit, expats don't need to learn Dutch. I don't really know how it works, as I understand it you have to learn Dutch if you are on welfare, because you won't get a job if you don't. Don't know the specifics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Butler
I suspect that the "don't want to be tagged as racist" excuse was an afterthought. Principally the problem was that they didn't give a shit about young, poor girls.
Bit of both probably. Can't believe I am trying to nuance, no matter how much I detest islam, it can be taken out of the equation probably because this was a professional gang looking for the easiest victims; lower class girls.
Funny that isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
Yet this is the same police farce that colluded with the BBC when they raided Clifford Richards' home last week.
Nothing to see here, move along.
BTW Nice to see you again Idaho.
Oh good, an enquiry
Any bets on the outcome? System failure, no one person responsible (certainly no one currently working there). Lessons learned, new approach, new leadership, reassuring change of approach.
Do they just copy and paste the conclusion from the last one?
~:smoking:
Yes.Quote:
Do they just copy and paste the conclusion from the last one?
Has any organization of some size anywhere ever done otherwise?
Obviously I'll use things I am familiar with, so the Pharma industry it is!
Whistleblowing has specific email addresses and phone numbers. In the USA if something is found at fault the whilst blower even gets a cut of the fine. And believe it or not, if one has to leave one's job because one had to whistleblow the attitude of potential hirers is "good for you" - I know than from personal experience.
We get external reports which can excoriate the companies involved - and then reaudit until things have demonstrably improved over months and often years.
But I realise things are more... cozy when it is state owned enterprises and it is more for things to be seen to be done than to really do anything.
~:smoking:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p026k2r4
Bloody hell!
A multiculture! A multiculture! My kingdom for a multiculture!
England...
Looks like some lasses may have been murdered as well.
I feel dirty.
Yeah, good thing nobody ever got killed before those socialists and brownies came along.
GOD SAVE ENGLAND
Most of the vitriol of IA, Rory, and Idaho seems to be at the expense of the local government -- I hardly don't think that any of them seems to be taking the implicitly racist stance you suggest.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
I knew that it was only a matter of time.Quote:
Looking forwards to a lot of whataboutery.
Not just predicable, pedestrian and straight out of the Frankfurt handbook but evil. Just evil.
Yes, bring on the exorcism.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Pathetic.
If you feel dirty you are clean.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
This is a really ugly affair, I wish I was religious so I could be certain about the the fate of the politically correct. How many victims could have been perfectly safe and unharmed at home if it weren't for the politically correct. I understand why they were afraid to lose their jobs for doing their work. All religions suck, but multiculturalism sucks the most. Worst is that they don't even u derstand that they are deeply religious.
The EDL had a rally last Saturday in support of the victims. The socialists and anti-fascists held a counter demonstration against them. That's right, the socialists had a demo in support of rapists an murderers.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Did you go?
Does being against nationalists/racists automatically mean being for rapists?
Is that the black and white we get to choose from in life?
EDL are mostly scum, doesn't mean the blackshirts were actually protesting in favour of rapists and murderers. I would be more concerned about the hickup in what should be there to protect these lasses that let all this happen, because they were afraid to lose their jobs. When I look at the faces of the likes of Lady Ashton, or that Maelström Swede, I am pretty sure that it is a valid concern. They are 100% certain that they are absolutily right.
I really wish people would stop blaming Multiculturalism and attribute the blame correctly.
If this was a failing of multiculturalism you would be seeing this in the many immigrant cultures within this country (and we have many) - but we arent - the problem is entirely between the state and the Islamic community.
The State needs to address its inability to tackle the rise of "Islamic Supremacists" (which is essentially what ISIS is) much like they dealt and continue to deal with White Supremacists - its inability to do so for fear of being labeled racist is only feeding the Supremacists and letting them run riot which only helps grow their support.
Additionally the Islamic community needs to start moving against the elements within promoting Supremacism and actively ostracising its followers.
I am not a faillure of diversity, my (current) girlfriend is from Iran. Multicultralism is a flawed ideoligy, i would like to set a bar, what is acceptable for us to allow.
To the radical right-wing, the world is indeed black and white.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
And they're right, the march was all about supporting the victims.
IA is right as usual of course, and he cleverly figured me out: I am indeed the chief of police in Rotherham. I personally stopped all attempts at investigation of the reported cases. I did it because I feared being called a racist, as that's basically the worst thing in human history. The Holocaust was nothing compared to being labelled!!
I thought I could get away with it, but IA is just too smart for me.
They tried to lock up Nick Griffin ten years ago for telling people about this, he was found not guilty but ignored. The reason being that he had political views that most people found repulsive. However he was correct in everything he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Now this could be potentially very dangerous. After all if he was right about this, perhaps his other views are valid. See where gagging people with political correctness gets you?
The thing is, sometimes inciting racial / religious hatred can also be telling the truth. So then we enter the world where we apparently want to treat all people and religions as equal and lovely when they don't particularly view each other as equal or lovely...
So is preaching Jihad free speech or a hate crime? Is decrying it free speech or a hate crime?
So far, it appears that we have decided that on balance decapitating people and hacking off duty soldiers to death on the street is not acceptable but apart from that everything else is a grey area - who are we to force English values on people living in England...?
~:smoking:
That are very solid considerations.Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Yes, preaching jihad is illegal in all or most western countries. The US may be an exception, but then again they have gitmo.Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Club Gitmo -- your tropical resort far away from the stresses of jihad.....Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Should be very interesting tomorrow.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...f-9819768.html
The comments below the line are astounding for a left leaning paper. Methinks the game is up.
UKIP running neck and neck is unheard of in the Peoples Republic of South Yorkshire. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People'...outh_Yorkshire) They would vote for a Yorkshire Pudding down there if it wore a red rosette.
The really broad brush right / left is increasingly shown to be not fit for purpose.
Blue collar workers want what is best for them, and they see that as Labour rather than Tories. They are not inclusive "love thy foreigner, help others" types.
So a party that appears to offer them more and not "foreigners" - anyone out of Yorkshire - will win votes.
~:smoking:
The reactionary's are gaining steam and a grinning idiot with no real plan is now posed to put a boot shaped dent in the british system.
Now I know how the Americans felt in 2008.
And 2012.
And 2016.
That's me buggered then. I expect to be deported back to Lancashire, fifthwith.Quote:
So a party that appears to offer them more and not "foreigners" - anyone out of Yorkshire - will win votes.
Which one are you on about? Clegg, Milliband or Camoron?Quote:
The reactionary's are gaining steam and a grinning idiot with no real plan is now posed to put a boot shaped dent in the british system
Considering none of them are gaining steam...Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Britain is tired of the status quo and is looking for someone to break the cycle of mediocraty that is the labour-conservative 2 party system. Problem is that in our search a lot of us have latched on to a party that is one step from the BNP. Worse, like the SNP they have no plan beyond cut ties with a neighbour we have more need of than we wish to admit. When those bonds are broken UKIP will show themselves as utterly clueless as to how to actually run a country and by then britain will just be another spain style hasbeen.
That smiling idiot has more sense in the nails of his toes than the entire EU combined. Youtube is full of video's where he predicted, well just about everything.
Now the EU wants more than 2 billion euro extra from the UK because ehhhhh they want it. Totally understandable, if they get less money they don't get more of it. They want more from us as well, they decided that our economy is bigger because of the drugtrade and prostition, 600 million please.
if he had any sense at all he would be restraining the idiots plaguing the eu instead of cutting ties.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
We are up to our eyeballs in debt and he wants to throw away one of our main money makers. Wise he ain't.
The EU only costs the UK and The Netherlands money. Europhiles will furiously scream that we need Europe, which of course absolutily true. But we don't need the EU, we can trade just as well without the EU. The EU is an increasingly expensive burden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
I think UKIP could be a one-election wonder. Unfortunately that might be enough for them to destroy the UK forever. Wee Sturgeon of the SNP is already going on about Scotland getting a veto on leaving Europe, and combined with the ultra-Thatcherite policies of UKIP, this may be enough for the SNP to get a huge majority at the next Scottish Parliament, and have their "unilateral declaration of independence".
As for the rest of the UK, if UKIP do make big gains in Labour strongholds, I can't see them keeping them. A party which demonizes the poorest in society and wants to take away what little they have, would go down like a ton of bricks in a working-class area. People would soon become aware of the fact that they are really just ultra-Tories.
Like little girls virginity aged 11 and 12. Vote Labour!Quote:
A party which demonizes the poorest in society and wants to take away what little they have
Sorry, but the BNP is a racist party whereas UKIP isn't - they may be a myopic, reactive "NIMBY" view of the world but they are not trying to recreate the Master Race. Unless Labour are one step from the Communist Party and the Tories one step from the Republicans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Oh, UKIP should reform the EU. A novel idea!!! Something that has been talked about every year... and somehow the resources they consume increases year on year. No one else appears prepared to ask if it is fit for purpose.
We do have need for ties with Europe amongst others. Requesting to join NAFTA would be better since that is an economic joining without the levels of waste which the EU excels - there are definitely benefits but they are outweighed by the cons as it currently stands.
~:smoking:
Well, you didn't pay your dues, deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
As for paying for other countries, by that logic we should have begged the USSR to stay and keep East Germany and all the other eastern countries. Do you think the German reunification was a horribly stupid idea because West Germany had to pay so much? Should we have kept the east as a seperate country and just traded with them a bit?
Whatever Germany did is Germany's call. The basic question is why isn't germany so keen to rebuild Greece's economy, or Spain's or Libya's? They are all in need and I'm sure if you gave enough billions they'd be better off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Germans were prepared to help other Germans as they broadly felt kinship with them. They are not prepared to help those who they don't.
East Germany also has integrated and acts as part of Germany and does not now it has taken loads of resources want to cede, join the EU and get money indrectly.
~:smoking:
Bah. Hiding thier lack of organisation and feasability under the easiest scapegoat and riding the wave of the dissaffected and disillusioned to put dubious people in power, hyperbole aside the parallels disturb me. All three main parties insist the eu is not worth leaving and the politicians saying otherwise have the stink of American neoconservative objectivism. Those that arent out and out nazis anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Maybe we do need to leave but if doing so means electing ukip as it is I would rather we nuke ourselves and get it over with. Britain is worth a quick death at least.
Cynical much?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Though political parties long on sloganeering and short on ideas is hardly a new phenomenon in the democratic process.
If the only party campaigning against splitting your union was the tea party would you be optimistic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
I agree with the bulk of the TEA party's objectives and STILL don't think they have their caca-in-ligne.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Some of them really think that if they can take over Congress for a couple of terms that they can undo all of the government accretion of the last 3/4's of a century during one Presidential administration -- zero concept of the tenacity of bureaucratized organizational forms coupled to our political structure.
Sadly, I share more than a bit of your cynicism regarding things political....
At least you have a clear "not freaking nuts option". Over here figuring out which party will screw up the least is a lifetime's endeavour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
West Germany still pays for East Germany, only recently have some politicians brought up the idea that bankrupt western cities paying for well-developed eastern ones may not be a great idea anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Germans are not keen to pay for Greece if Greece continues to be corrupt and wastes most of the money. If there were some visible results of rebuilding, I think these measures could get more support here.
As for Britain, I found this funny graphic from the gruniad: http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-file...%20body%20link
it shows Britain as the second biggest payer, but if one includes the 3.6 billion it lists that other countries apparently just gift Britain for staying, it would barely rank 4th with 1.8bn, barely above the Netherlands. Though I suppose the 2bn that Britain stole from the EU recently are not included and would only result in 3.8bn then, still 4th place after Italy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_rebate
France and Germany are the biggest contributors to the EU, the ones who pay for all the poor countries. And we whine considerably less about it than people from the UK do, even though we may not always be perfectly happy either. And we don't get an outdated rebate that was meant for a much poorer Britain, instead we pay extra for that rebate. This whole British anti-EU thing just shows what a bunch of spoiled children its members are. :pleased:
The system was never very good. And since now information is much more widely available we are all much more aware what is going on - back in the day (prior 1900) the whole system was a toffs boys' club where the rich went to play. They were not paid as it was practically a hobby. Ultrurustic? I doubt it, but between all the dubious exercises they owned they had enough cash.
Then it became a career and the ambition of many was to line one's own pockets - and now we get what they do in exquisite detail: all the promises broken we are informed about, all the scandals, all the discussions are described as in-fighting, any compromise is a "climb down" or "U-turn". Rather than driving up the debate it has been increasingly infantilised to fit in with the twitter quote and the TV soundbite.
The system was worse in the UK years ago and tragically it is better here than elsewhere. But that is not the message we ever get.
Lib Dems were the protest vote party and now people look for another one and UKIP has simple messages that with a wave of their magic wand everything will be better. Voters don't want to understand, they want their problems "solved". And in democracy where everyone has an equal say pandering to the transient wishes of the mass wins elections in ways that long term strategic planning don't.
It'd be great to have a UK Ms Merkel who shifts her position based on evidence, is generally cautious in her declamations and seemingly has done a relatively good job.
I fear this is because Germans generally tend to be more sensible collaborative individuals than the adverarial ones in the UK.
~:smoking:
They changed the calculations, decided our economy is bigger then it really is. They even don't shy away of adding revenues from prostitution and drugs. It's a robbery, simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
If not Greece, then a massive handout to Iceland. The point is that the money went to East Germany for decades and not to any other country that requires support which is not corrupt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Is that net contribution or gross? The CAP is practically a system to support France's archaic farming practices and France liked the EU to give it more of a voice on the world stage (and generally anti the USA/UK axis); the Eastern Europeans have certainly messed this up. Germany was in there to promise to play nice with the others / cheaper to rule Europe this way.
~:smoking:
Child abuse is also linked to poverty and all the problems that come with it - alcoholism, drug abuse, family breakdown etc. The sort of problems that put a lot of kids in the care homes that allowed the Asian gangs to target them - and the sort of problems that will all increase if UKIP get their way.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
I'm not one of those people who gets outraged by UKIP's stance on immigration, its the other stuff I have a problem with.
Speaking of UKIP, searching for their name on amazon gives us clothing announcing we were #1.
Hoodie-gate
You are not going to have politicians speak and enact sensible policy unless you show a willingness to act just as outrageous as them. Protest parties are always a joke until they get a good foundation of voters, then all their "reactionary/radical reforms" are picked up by the big tents as "common sense" policies.
Some here have pointed out a strong UKIP showing could ruin the British system while others have pointed out that the system has been garbage from the beginning. So what's the problem?
...this is a joke right? "Well you could get aids but you already have malaria, so what's the problem?"Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
You really don't understand how voting works. You don't change how parties act by just getting madder when you vote for them. Your two parties are a joke, and unless you vote for someone else they have no incentive to act in any other way but the status quo.
If you honestly think that a single election that brings about a handful of elected UKIP members will bring down 60+ years of social programs, institutions etc... then your system really was fragile and useless to begin with.
....And you're acting like the UKIP is the only british party besides the tories and labour.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name