If Islam is the "Religion of Peace"....

So here is what I don't get.

If Islam is the Religion Of Peace... How come it is so misunderstood?

I have two nieces...

One of them is together with a muslim guy...

The other one is together with a buddhist guy...

I must honestly say I got bad vibes in the first place, and positive vibes in the latter case.






As it turns out though, this muslim guy is... Well... a ****ing awesome boyfriend-soon-to-be-husband.

He never drinks, he is totally cool, he respects me, he looks at her with the utmost love in his eyes... As my family situation is rather problematic, I have the role of the father figure to my nieces... And this muslim guy totally holds up to my standards.

Heck, I am glad they are together.




Anyway... as this muslim guy got her pregnant, it was time to take him out on a serious talk. You know the type: "I will support you 100% as long as you don't hurt her, but if you hurt her I will really really REALLY hurt you in a way you won't come back from ever".

Regardless... He more or less broke down in tears and started to talk about how hard it was for him, with his muslim friends... Because he was together with her.

They wouldn't tolerate that she was speaking out among men and shit... And he is now more or less a social outcast, because he choose to treat his girl like he does (with love).



I think my point is clear, but I will state it anyway... There is something rotten in Islam. The more I interact with people of that belief, the harder I get convinced.


That buddhist guy btw? He is shit... Smokes weed all day and will probably never get a proper job.




I guess my question is: When the hell will the west understand that Islam ISN'T just another religion... It's a fanatical sect that should be fought in each and every manner that we possibly can, for the betterment of mankind.

*I prefer to fight with knowledge and education rather than bombs though...*

Personally I don't care for labelling religions in either a positive way or a bad way.

Speaking strictly personally, I wouldn't adopt islam even if I developed a belief in a monotheistic god. I have a pretty entenched set of values that are at odds with the way islam has historically viewed things. Even so, there are people who share most of my values and who call themselves muslim because they feel cultural or historical ties with that religion. I'm perfectly fine with those people, and that's all that matters to me.

People should be judged as individuals and not by their group identities. Your buddhist example is a case in point. Furthermore I think people should generally refrain from telling adherents of a religion what their religion is all about. This covers President Obama's statement that IS is 'unislamic' and, on the other side, people who say islam is vile and that muslims are compelled to do X or Y because their holy texts command it.

A related issue is that some people who insist that islam as such is the problem, and that 'liberal muslims' are really just apostates who have pretty much abandoned their religion in all but name. It's like demanding that they chose between renouncing their religious identity or becoming fundamentalists who interpret scripture literally. Politicians are called politically correct wimps for saying comments like that are "unhelpful" but I think that pretty much nails it.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

Personally I don't care for labelling religions in either a positive way or a bad way.

Speaking strictly personally, I wouldn't adopt islam even if I developed a belief in a monotheistic god. I have a pretty entenched set of values that are at odds with the way islam has historically viewed things. Even so, there are people who share most of my values and who call themselves muslim because they feel cultural or historical ties with that religion. I'm perfectly fine with those people, and that's all that matters to me.

People should be judged as individuals and not by their group identities. Your buddhist example is a case in point. Furthermore I think people should generally refrain from telling adherents of a religion what their religion is all about. This covers President Obama's statement that IS is 'unislamic' and, on the other side, people who say islam is vile and that muslims are compelled to do X or Y because their holy texts command it.

A related issue is that some people who insist that islam as such is the problem, and that 'liberal muslims' are really just apostates who have pretty much abandoned their religion in all but name. It's like demanding that they chose between renouncing their religious identity or becoming fundamentalists who interpret scripture literally. Politicians are called politically correct wimps for saying comments like that are "unhelpful" but I think that pretty much nails it.

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Well you'd be stupid then.

My question stands: How come that my muslim-soon-somewhat-brother-in-law get shunned for treating a Swedish woman as a woman should be treated?


Please, OH PLEASE, show me where in the Quran where this is wrong from a muslim perspective? I have this muslim guy broken up in tears, I am sure it would help him. It would help my family.

I ****in dare you to show one single tidbit.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

So here is what I don't get.

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There are retarded fuckwits in the world. Some of them are religious.

Such a mystery.

Religion of pieces everywhere

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Religion of pieces everywhere

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You should do public shows.

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

You should do public shows.

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Yeah I'm good.

Answer to the original question is easy though. There is the house of peace 'dar al islam'(muslim world) and the house of war, 'dar al harb' (the rest). So islam is not peace, peace is islam, in other words, there is peace if you submit to islam.

It concerns how attached someone is to his religion, not in what religion he believes.

If your niece's social and familiar environment was as devoted to christianity as his boyfriends' is to islamism, then she'd face the exact same problems.
The problem with islamism is that a rather large number of people take it too seriously compared to the other religions.

Kadagar, that has a lot more to do with tribalism or clan thinking rather than religion. Basically, the clan (=extended family) unity is considered more more important than any induvidual and that type of freezing out is how to keep the clan together. I doubt most of them has even red the Quran, outside possibly being forced to do it in school or something. Certainly not well enough to base their opinions from a scholar perspective.

See that as driven by "You can't trust anyone, but family." " If you can't trust family, who can you trust?"
It's horrible for anything outside situation like that though (like a functional modern state), and I wouldn't mind if that attitude weakened or disappeared. But Islam got very little influence on that.

The Bible is horrible on women's rights as well (submit to your husband and shut up), but those parts are outright ignored by the Swedish church for example. That's the problem with thick holy books, if they're long enough and if you ignore context, then you can read almost anything into it.

To put a counter example: If Islam is a fanatical sect, why have they been more culturally open, more technologically advanced and richer than Europe historically? That part of the world certainly got major issues today, but if Islam was the red thread in that development, the peak for that part of the world wouldn't happen after centuries of Islam.
Those "supersmart" Far East asians like the Chinese also succeded in ending up stagnant and regressive. Without influence from Islam.

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Originally Posted by Crandar

The problem with islamism is that a rather large number of people take it too seriously compared to the other religions.

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I agree with this up to the part where it is compared to the other religions, I would argue that it is completely proportional to most other religions. The issue is that of exposure.

Through multiple factors, both inside and out of the islamic populations, the overzealous or crazy members are being exposed to the rest of the world in a degree greater than of those other religions.

Indeed, I have no doubt people would be saying the same of American protestants* if it were not for the the more secular and sane majority of the country being visible enough to make negative generalisations hard to defend.

*thier methods of political sabotage while less obvious to the outsider than islam's makes thier bodycount no less obscene.

What does it have with tribalism here? There are no tribes here. Just a question, as islamic immigrants are more ilke colonists if they import their issues instead off leaving them behind in the place they came from. Leftists are even more confusing, they absolutily adore conservative islam but mock normal christians who never wrong anyone, how does that resonate?

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Originally Posted by Crandar

It concerns how attached someone is to his religion, not in what religion he believes.

If your niece's social and familiar environment was as devoted to christianity as his boyfriends' is to islamism, then she'd face the exact same problems.
The problem with islamism is that a rather large number of people take it too seriously compared to the other religions.

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Quakers? I can't imagine them acting in this way. Even pretty committed CoE practitioners are friendly and the most extreme might send a pretty stern letter or two - not suicide bomb those who are different.

I do think that most of this is cultural rather than anything else - women of all religions tend to cover their head in the Middle East and probably did before Islam / Christianity were around.

~:smoking:

OP's post is anecdotal evidence, but okay.

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What does it have with tribalism here? There are no tribes here.

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That's a bit naive: in the Netherlands, the majority of Moroccans that live here originate from the same villages in Morocco.

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Regardless... He more or less broke down in tears and started to talk about how hard it was for him, with his muslim friends... Because he was together with her.

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He has dicks for friends.

As much as I dislike contemporary Islam (for different reasons), I think that this issue really doesn't have too much to do with religion. The reason why his "friends" responded the way they did is probably out of spite or jealousy or something else that can be explained perfectly well within a more social-economic context. You can criticise mass immigration, which would make more sense, because I don't really think it has too much to do with Islam here. Unless you consider all acts of all Muslims at any moment as Islam, of course.

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I guess my question is: When the hell will the west understand that Islam ISN'T just another religion... It's a fanatical sect that should be fought in each and every manner that we possibly can, for the betterment of mankind.

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Okay but..like, is your sister's boyfriend a fanatic sectarian? This kind of criticism towards Islam (which is totally understandable) often degrades to "no true Scotsman" when confronted with (orthodox) Muslims that do not behave along the expected pattern (i.e. they don't want to kill everyone who isn't them).

As for your quote, look towards Ibn Arabi, f.ex.:

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O Marvel! a garden amidst the flames.
My heart has become capable of every form:
it is a pasture for gazelles and a convent for Christian monks,
and a temple for idols and the pilgrim's Kaa'ba,
and the tables of the Torah and the book of the Quran.
I follow the religion of Love: whatever way Love's camels take,
that is my religion and my faith.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

What does it have with tribalism here? There are no tribes here. Just a question, as islamic immigrants are more ilke colonists if they import their issues instead off leaving them behind in the place they came from. Leftists are even more confusing, they absolutily adore conservative islam but mock normal christians who never wrong anyone, how does that resonate?

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I take it you're sarcastic? Full integration is a generational process. And that's depends on the person but are quite universial. I've met Americans that doesn't call themselves Swedes despite working and living here for 30+ years.
And I think you're mixing up people on the leftists. The ones mocking normal christians who never wrong anyone are aggressive atheists and don't like muslims either (the christian who do wrong people have a larger mocking group). The ones defending conservative islam are usually conflicted between cultural domination and human rights and linger more on cultural domination being wrong.
Then you have the people who get suspicious about hate groups forming, due to simplifications of complex issues and are by themselves creating more issues.

No sorry, I am dead serious. Leftist people will have to choose between respect for islam and western humanistic values.

Respecting something you are not is physically impossible, apparently.

poof post is gone

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Originally Posted by Fragony

No sorry, I am dead serious. Leftist people will have to choose between respect for islam and western humanistic values.

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You really should move to Russia. There are ton of people there that I know will welcome your views.

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

You really should move to Russia. There are ton of people there that I know will welcome your views.

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100.000? I should probably stay in the Netherlands as millions share my views here

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Originally Posted by Fragony

100.000? I should probably stay in the Netherlands as millions share my views here

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I am not even sure what you are referring to.

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

I am not even sure what you are referring to.

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likewise, what are the views you talk about

There are verses in the Quaran about when to beat your wife and stuff...

I agree that my nieces guy probably have more problem with tribalistic thinking, as they come from a country that is, well, barbaric in my eyes...

However, let's not forget or forgive WHAT EXACTLY THEIR HOLY BOOK SAY.

Again, can someone point out why it WOULD be wrong to beat your wife, or let her have her say around men, according to the Quran??


The words are all there.

Could, say, Buddhist main texts lead a man to treat his woman badly physically and mentally? I still claim there is something very ****ing rotten in and of Islam itself.

Meh.

http://biblehub.com/proverbs/23-14.htm

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13Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die. 14You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.

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The bible says you should beat your child with a rod. Let's not forgive or forget what those Christians' holy book says!!!!111

Can anyone point out where the bible supports gender equality? Shouldn't we ban christian parties like Merkel's CDU from politics because obviously their holy book says horrible things?

THE WORDS ARE ALL THERE!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Husar

Meh.

http://biblehub.com/proverbs/23-14.htm


The bible says you should beat your child with a rod. Let's not forgive or forget what those Christians' holy book says!!!!111

Can anyone point out where the bible supports gender equality? Shouldn't we ban christian parties like Merkel's CDU from politics because obviously their holy book says horrible things?

THE WORDS ARE ALL THERE!!!!!

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I am not defending Christianity in any way. It has absolutely vile texts in it as well...





Your logic still seem utterly off though... Do you argue that a lesser evil makes a bigger evil ok? Or what?

Always the same, BUT TEH BIBLE!!!1!

Completily irrelevant argument as the bible is written in passed present and the quran in imperative.

bible:did this. quran:do this.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Your logic still seem utterly off though...

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I copied your logic for the most part...

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Always the same, BUT TEH BIBLE!!!1!

Completily irrelevant argument as the bible is written in passed present and the quran in imperative.

bible:did this. quran:do this.

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The part I quoted is very "do this", wouldn't you say?

Of course there some imperatives, but it's cherrypicking them out. You just can't compare the bible with the quran when it comes to what it's followers must do. Just because there are a few imperatives doesn't mean it's full of them. The bible is also a violent book, no doubt. But kiiiiiinda less violent no.

Also, christians the new testament overrules the old. That is the same islam, newer verses overrule the old, so the peacefull parts don't mean anything.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Of course there some imperatives, but it's cherrypicking them out. You just can't compare the bible with the quran when it comes to what it's followers must do. Just because there are a few imperatives doesn't mean it's full of them. The bible is also a violent book, no doubt. But kiiiiiinda less violent no.

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Maybe. And maybe most religions nowadays cherry pick.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Also, christians the new testament overrules the old. That is the same islam, newer verses overrule the old, so the peacefull parts don't mean anything.

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That's funny because the same argument is often used to arrive at the opposite conclusion, that the violent parts don't mean anything.
And if the new testament is what turns Christianity from evil to good, does that mean jews are really evil then because they reject the new testament?

Not sure about the last part, you are christian you probably know better. As far as I know that isn't in the bible but I could be wrong there. Be my limited knowledge they are supossedly doomed for rejecting christ, but there is no active imperative to hunt them down as far as I know.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Not sure about the last part, you are christian you probably know better. As far as I know that isn't in the bible but I could be wrong there. Be my limited knowledge they are supossedly doomed for rejecting christ, but there is no active imperative to hunt them down as far as I know.

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A lot of Christians support them because they are still somehow seen as God's chosen people, but I have no idea why.
There is no real imperative to hunt anything down but sin itself in the new testament if I'm not mistaken.

But the point is, if someone says we cannot live together with Muslims because their religion has evil words in its holy book, why should that apply only to muslims? Should we judge people based on the amount of evil words in their holy book or based on what they do with it and how they actually behave? We keep blaming them for having medieval morals and then advocate a solution that sounds incredibly medieval. Now I'm aware that this thread isn't about any solutions, but maybe I should just ignore threads that only point out obvious sub-issues for no apparent reason.

We can judge them on their actions that are based on what the islam dictates. There is no need to judge muslims who do nothing wrong, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything deeply wrong with their religion.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

We can judge them on their actions that are based on what the islam dictates. There is no need to judge muslims who do nothing wrong, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything deeply wrong with their religion.

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Leviticus
The Burnt Offering
14 “‘If the offering to the Lord is a burnt offering of birds, you are to offer a dove or a young pigeon. 15 The priest shall bring it to the altar, wring off the head and burn it on the altar; its blood shall be drained out on the side of the altar. 16 He is to remove the crop and the feathers and throw them down east of the altar where the ashes are. 17 He shall tear it open by the wings, not dividing it completely, and then the priest shall burn it on the wood that is burning on the altar. It is a burnt offering, a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord.

The Sin Offering
4 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘When anyone sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands — 3 “‘If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, he must bring to the Lord a young bull without defect as a sin offering for the sin he has committed. 4 He is to present the bull at the entrance to the tent of meeting before the Lord. He is to lay his hand on its head and slaughter it there before the Lord. 5 Then the anointed priest shall take some of the bull’s blood and carry it into the tent of meeting. 6 He is to dip his finger into the blood and sprinkle some of it seven times before the Lord, in front of the curtain of the sanctuary.

Rules for Priests

16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 “Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the food offerings to the Lord. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the Lord, who makes them holy.’”

A Blasphemer Put to Death

13 Then the Lord said to Moses: 14 “Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: ‘Anyone who curses their God will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.

Is it just me or here we can speak of torturing animals, performing pagan rites with the slaughtered animals, bigotry and call for murder, all of which are MANDATED from the faithful and (which is more terrible) from the priests?

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Is it just me or here we can speak of torturing animals, performing pagan rites with the slaughtered animals, bigotry and call for murder, all of which are MANDATED from the faithful and (which is more terrible) from the priests?

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No no no no no that is the OLD Christian God. The new one is cool with invalids and homos so long as they limit their exposure and don't spread the gay.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Leviticus
The Burnt Offering
14 “‘If the offering to the Lord is a burnt offering of birds, you are to offer a dove or a young pigeon. 15 The priest shall bring it to the altar, wring off the head and burn it on the altar; its blood shall be drained out on the side of the altar. 16 He is to remove the crop and the feathers and throw them down east of the altar where the ashes are. 17 He shall tear it open by the wings, not dividing it completely, and then the priest shall burn it on the wood that is burning on the altar. It is a burnt offering, a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord.

The Sin Offering
4 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘When anyone sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands — 3 “‘If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, he must bring to the Lord a young bull without defect as a sin offering for the sin he has committed. 4 He is to present the bull at the entrance to the tent of meeting before the Lord. He is to lay his hand on its head and slaughter it there before the Lord. 5 Then the anointed priest shall take some of the bull’s blood and carry it into the tent of meeting. 6 He is to dip his finger into the blood and sprinkle some of it seven times before the Lord, in front of the curtain of the sanctuary.

Rules for Priests

16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 “Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the food offerings to the Lord. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the Lord, who makes them holy.’”

A Blasphemer Put to Death

13 Then the Lord said to Moses: 14 “Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: ‘Anyone who curses their God will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.

Is it just me or here we can speak of torturing animals, performing pagan rites with the slaughtered animals, bigotry and call for murder, all of which are MANDATED from the faithful and (which is more terrible) from the priests?

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All old testament, an argument only for those who want islam to be the same thing as christianity. But it isn't.

Uh....

I refuse to go into a debate whether christianity or islam or the jewish are the worst when it comes to what it says in the scripture.



Let's face it, it ALL has a lot of **** in it. I for one think Christianity has the least ****, but still enough **** for me not to take their faith seriously in a grown up discussion 2015.




My problem is with the Islamic faith, and even MORE so with EVERY Islamic culture I have had the ill fortune to meet or have been forced to live among.

Islam is for me a totally lunatic ideology, and people actually believing in this might as well be hunted for sport if we ever want a society where, say, women are treated as equals and we have a free and open debate climate for political and religious questions.

Note, I do in no way support hunting muslims for sport... I just say that I don't see it as being anything WORSE than having a world where they bring things to the table. Mainly because THEY hunt people, and it's not even for sport these days.

They hunt free thinkers and people bold enough to stand up to them.



We in the west have better weapons and training, so if they really want to turn it into a sport, let's let them. I don't have a problem with throwing the first stone in this case.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

We can judge them on their actions that are based on what the islam dictates. There is no need to judge muslims who do nothing wrong, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything deeply wrong with their religion.

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But then there is also something deeply wrong with the Jewish religion and the people who take that very seriously and yet you always support them a hundred percent in their everlasting conflict. So why don't you judge the jews based on what the torah dictates? Only the ones who follow it to the letter of course.

The catholic church also succeeded in turning Christianity, which would seem like the least aggressive religion of the three, into a bloodthirsty crusader machine and had all these inquisitions, witch burnings and retty much fraudulent stuff here in Europe. Yes, it was long ago but it shows that religions are often bent and mended to the liking of those who practice them, whether it's literally in the book or not may just help or hinder those plans, but whether it actually shapes those plans is debatable.

Kadagar keeps saying that buddhists are the nicest people and oh so innocent, but there's an entire wiki page that says otherwise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

And if one doesn't like wiki, there is always anecdotal evidence from elsewhere:
http://time.com/3090990/how-an-extre...d-across-asia/

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BBS, or Bodu Bala Sena, otherwise known as Buddhist Power Force, is a Buddhist supremacist group accused of stirring sectarian hatred in Sri Lanka. Led by a monk, Galagoda Aththe Gnanasara Thero, BBS accuses Sri Lanka’s Muslims of threatening the nation’s Buddhist identity, and enjoys support at high levels. Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the President’s brother who also serves as Secretary of Defense, has been an outspoken supporter of BBS in the past.

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https://news.vice.com/article/meet-t...s-in-sri-lanka

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It was one of the largest and most deadly in recent years, wounding more than 50 and killing four Muslims. It follows a spate of anti-Muslim sentiment welling up somewhat unexpectedly in Sri Lanka and, perhaps most shockingly for Westerners who view them as eternally chubby, cuddly, and peaceful, it was stirred up by and composed of Buddhists, acting on allegedly Buddhist sentiments.

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So buddhism is a religion of violence as well now?

http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/07/war...st-violence-i/

And, oh snap, a page that kind of summarizes the entire thread...

But it also has e.g. this on buddhism:

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Buddhism’s relative inconspicuousness shields it from the harshest blows of public criticism. Case in point: the Bible and the Quran are well-known and easily accessible to the public. Finding the violent verses in them is just a click away on the internet. Meanwhile, Buddhist scriptural sources are more obscure, at least to the average Westerner. Most people don’t even know what scriptures Buddhists follow, let alone what is contained within them.

As a consequence, many modern-day Buddhists believe that their scriptural sources are in fact devoid of violence, that this is a problem only of the Bible or the Quran. But, Prof. Stephen Jenkins points out that this is just not the case. In fact, “Buddhist kings had conceptual resources [in the religious texts] at their disposal that supported warfare, torture, and harsh punishments.” [2]

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Basically there is plenty of justification for killing other people even in the buddhist religion. Most of it is quoted from an expert in the article and I don't want to quote quotes here, so I suggest one reads it.

I don't read Kad's posts as a case for Budusm but as resentment of islam and islamic culture. I totally agree with that resentment and it confuses me why people try to defend/relativate it, it's a horrible ideoligy. If you care about equal rights for everyone, women, gays, or whatever, you are really knocking on the wrong door if you respect the islam. It's a tragedy really, as most muslims are really nice people, respecting islam isn't exactly doing them a favour.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I don't read Kad's posts as a case for Budusm but as resentment of islam and islamic culture. I totally agree with that resentment and it confuses me why people try to defend/relativate it, it's a horrible ideoligy. If you care about equal rights for everyone, women, gays, or whatever, you are really knocking on the wrong door if you respect the islam. It's a tragedy really, as most muslims are really nice people, respecting islam isn't exactly doing them a favour.

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Its not like ideology changes or melds with the times. Nope. Never happens. Everything is intransigent.

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

Its not like ideology changes or melds with the times. Nope. Never happens. Everything is intransigent.

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That is why we shouldn't respect the current state of islam. It needs to mocked and ridiculed because frankly it deserves it.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I don't read Kad's posts as a case for Budusm but as resentment of islam and islamic culture.

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First off, it's things like the following quotes that bug me:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I guess my question is: When the hell will the west understand that Islam ISN'T just another religion... It's a fanatical sect that should be fought in each and every manner that we possibly can, for the betterment of mankind.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Could, say, Buddhist main texts lead a man to treat his woman badly physically and mentally? I still claim there is something very ****ing rotten in and of Islam itself.

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And Kadagar has claimed in other threads that he thinks Islam is completely unique in being a violent religion IIRC. This thread is more low-key but yeah, my point was that this is simply not the case, maybe nowadays it is more extreme but the basic scriptures of many religions we compare here all haven't changed over the course of the last 1000 years or so, right?

As for the buddhism thing:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

One of them is together with a muslim guy...

The other one is together with a buddhist guy...

I must honestly say I got bad vibes in the first place, and positive vibes in the latter case.

---

I think the point about buddhism being more peaceful was made more strongly elsewhere and I guess you're unfortunate that I only looked into it now.

As for muslim resentment of marrying non-muslims, it is there, it is maybe a bit stronger and it makes me sad, but you don't want to know how often my parents told me to find a good christian girl or to forget about a girl because she's not christian. They wouldn't go further, but you can certainly find social pressure there. But even that is inherent to many religions, that they advocate sticking to believers because being exposed to other thoughts might shake the fundamentals of your faith. The attempt by atheists is usually to ask that the religious people to water down their religion, to not take it seriously anymore. But that goes against the fundamentals of their belief, even Jesus said you're either with me or against me, there is no middle ground where you are only a believer when it fits the gay agenda or something like that. That's why people who take the bible seriously still oppose gay rights etc.

So yeah, Islam may have a longer way to go before it has become "secularized" or "watered-down" to please atheists, but that doesn't mean that there is something rotten with it in comparison to other religions, it just means that it has maintained a larger core of people who actually believe in it and take it seriously to this day.

And yeah, you call me a Christian and PVC calls me an atheist. The way I see it I am somewhere in between, for my fundamentalist christian friends that would mean I go to hell and for people opposed to religion that probably means I tolerate religious people too much. All I see is that there is a lot of resentment on both sides and while the religious people call the atheists a corrupting devilish influence that wants to draw people away from god, the atheists make fun of them and call them rotten, demanding that religions can only stay if they drop most of their core beliefs, then wonder why people who actually believe in these core tenets to be the unalterable truth refuse to do so.

So what is this thread about? Relationship advice for a guy whose friends dislike his choice of girlfriend? That's a pretty big title for that...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

No no no no no that is the OLD Christian God. The new one is cool with invalids and homos so long as they limit their exposure and don't spread the gay.

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God never ages, so he can't be either old or new. Or do you mean God has changed his attitudes since the Old Testament?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

That is why we shouldn't respect the current state of islam. It needs to mocked and ridiculed because frankly it deserves it.

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If you do, be sure to keep a weapon handy, otherwise muslims may "overreact" at your mocking and then say you deserved it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Husar

So what is this thread about? Relationship advice for a guy whose friends dislike his choice of girlfriend?

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Speaking about advice. Suppose Kadagar's niece marries that muslim guy and they have kids, what they will be counted in Fragony's terms - half-guests? Or if an emigrant marries a native, he/she is not a guest anymore? Or something intermediate between a guest and a native? A half-native?

pfffft bring it,, I'll tear of their jaw and make a nice bouillion. It's the multiculturalal islimphile left that is dangerous, not these few muslims.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

pfffft bring it,, I'll tear of their jaw and make a nice bouillion. It's the multiculturalal islimphile left that is dangerous, not these few muslims.

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And if they are not that few?
And you didn't qualify Kadagar's once removed grandchildren according to your classification.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

And if they are not that few?
And you didn't qualify Kadagar's once removed grandchildren according to your classification.

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If it are not just a few it is because of the multicultural religion, much more dangerouss than a few goatherders that just rolled of the mountain and got lostt, and somehow ended up in a modern society.

My qualification remains by the way, immigrants are guests. Also offspring. You can't become Swedish, you can't become Dutch. You can live here that's all. What more do you need?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

My qualification remains by the way, immigrants are guests. Also offspring.

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Including offspring of mixed marriages? What about the offspring of the mixed marriages' offspring?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Including offspring of mixed marriages? What about the offspring of the mixed marriages' offspring?

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Probably a guest, I found a chart that may or may not explain how it works:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...mberg_laws.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

That is why we shouldn't respect the current state of islam. It needs to mocked and ridiculed because frankly it deserves it.

---

I know I didn't use the rollseyes smiley, but surely you noted the sarcasm?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

God never ages, so he can't be either old or new. Or do you mean God has changed his attitudes since the Old Testament?

---

I am being haughty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Including offspring of mixed marriages? What about the offspring of the mixed marriages' offspring?

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I already asked him this several times. He does not want to say.

Oh Husar... Such an ill thought out post from you.

I will answer in full later when I have time... But seriously?

Quote:

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And Kadagar has claimed in other threads that he thinks Islam is completely unique in being a violent religion IIRC.

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Uuuuuh... I have never ever in my life uttered such a claim.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Including offspring of mixed marriages? What about the offspring of the mixed marriages' offspring?

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Too rare to take into consideration, could count as an argument if it is common but it isn't common.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Oh Husar... Such an ill thought out post from you.

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Do you wear a fedora?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Too rare to take into consideration, could count as an argument if it is common but it isn't common.

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I've always know that I'm special. <3

Quote:

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Do you wear a fedora?

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M'ulticulturalism

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Too rare to take into consideration, could count as an argument if it is common but it isn't common.

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The USA is a whole country of guests and their offspring.

Just because it happens doesn't mean it's common, as an argument pretty much ignorable.

was@Hax

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

The USA is a whole country of guests and their offspring.

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USA ain't Europe, I don't know of any survies but expect immigrants who get a permit consider themselves American first. A survie was done on Europe, who thinks that secular law iand democratic values are only rejected by a minority is truly dillusional. Especially in France and Belgium it's a majority.

http://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/i...-widely-spread

What isn't asked how many are acrually willing to use violence that number is probably a lot lower, and fundamentalist islam isn't necesarily bad, so I am not making a point here by posting this, just asking you to consider.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

USA ain't Europe, I don't know of any survies but expect immigrants who get a permit consider themselves American first. A survie was done on Europe, who thinks that secular law iand democratic values are only rejected by a minority is truly dillusional. Especially in France and Belgium it's a majority.

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It is not about the USA, Europe and the surveys conducted in either of them. It is about YOUR attitude. Having said A you are expected to say B, i.e. people here would like to hear an orderly and consistent theory on how population of a country might be classified according to their origin. Evidently you don't have one, just an emotional backlash against first-generation emigrants.

Answer is simple, I don't think islam belongs here. My attitude doesn't matter as it's their own attitude that makes them unwelcome in western Europe. If you reject a secular society and think your religion is more important than your host country, what the fuck are doing here, just go to a desert of choice where you are among those who feel the same way. Simple as that. Reject and get rejected.

About the himself muslim mayor of Rotterdan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yivnQGPFnJY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-0oVQ45blY Short interview

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Uh....

I refuse to go into a debate whether christianity or islam or the jewish are the worst when it comes to what it says in the scripture.

Let's face it, it ALL has a lot of **** in it. I for one think Christianity has the least ****, but still enough **** for me not to take their faith seriously in a grown up discussion 2015.

My problem is with the Islamic faith, and even MORE so with EVERY Islamic culture I have had the ill fortune to meet or have been forced to live among.

Islam is for me a totally lunatic ideology, and people actually believing in this might as well be hunted for sport if we ever want a society where, say, women are treated as equals and we have a free and open debate climate for political and religious questions.

---

The thing of dragging out Christianity has to do with answering the question if it's possible to create a decent secular state in a Muslim country. The answer is yes, even if you probably aren't feeling that right now. Would purging Islam a make a major cultural difference in the direction you want it? No.
Are there severe issues in the Islamic world right now? Yes. Does some immigrants carry that with them? Yes.

As a fellow Swede, do agree that there's issues in the Swedish society today?

Clearly there's something rotten with Sweden. It's not like every other country, but ruled by fanatical feminazis and should be fought in each and every manner that we possibly can, for the betterment of mankind. There's something deeply wrong with this country.

Sweden is a totally lunatic country, and people actually believing in this might as well be hunted for sport if we ever want a society where, say, women are treated as the different gender that they obviously are, and we have a free and open society where godless atheists without morals doesn't rule.

Of course, I mean it's really enough to wipe out Sweden from the map and that all Swedes denounce Sweden and its wicked ways, no need to kill them and I would really prefer it this way. Civilized as I am.

Did reading that make you feel more or less proud to be a Swede? If someone really wants you to change your attitude towards Sweden, should they talk and write like that? In particular since strong feelings in one place tends to leak through the mask that you wear in another place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Answer is simple, I don't think islam belongs here. My attitude doesn't matter as it's their own attitude that makes them unwelcome in western Europe. If you reject a secular society and think your religion is more important than your host country, what the fuck are doing here, just go to a desert of choice where you are among those who feel the same way. Simple as that. Reject and get rejected.

About the himself muslim mayor of Rotterdan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yivnQGPFnJY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-0oVQ45blY Short interview

---

I agree, to a degree, but they do apparently stay anyway, nothing we can do. Apparently they have a mind of their own, crazy stuff.

And that guy in the first video seems funny, apparently something weird happened to his glasses that he didn't bother to fix but he still advertises media appearance tutoring in the description of the video. :dizzy2:

Of course they are going to stay and that's fine with me. But nobody is forcing them to stay they can leave at any time they want if they want to, staying here is a choice , don't take a dumb on my lawn and expect me to like it. We aren't asking all that much from them imho, and that's a favour I would like to have returned. If you want to live in a society of your own you have no claim on the benefits of living in a western society as you distanciate yourself from it. Quid pro quo. Can't have the benefits of society and reject our society it at the same time. If I come to your house and I don't like what you did with the place I don't ask you to refurnish it because I don't like it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Of course they are going to stay and that's fine with me. But nobody is forcing them to stay they can leave at any time they want if they want to, staying here is a choice , don't take a dumb on my lawn and expect me to like it. We aren't asking all that much from them imho, and that's a favour I would like to have returned. If you want to live in a society of your own you have no claim on the benefits of living in a western society as you distanciate yourself from it. Quid pro quo. Can't have the benefits of society and reject our society it at the same time. If I come to your house and I don't like what you did with the place I don't ask you to refurnish it because I don't like it.

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Yeah, I just don't get why you say it's fine with you that they stay and then explain that they have no claim on the benefit of staying here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

Answer is simple, I don't think islam belongs here. My attitude doesn't matter as it's their own attitude that makes them unwelcome in western Europe. If you reject a secular society and think your religion is more important than your host country, what the fuck are doing here, just go to a desert of choice where you are among those who feel the same way. Simple as that. Reject and get rejected.

About the himself muslim mayor of Rotterdan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yivnQGPFnJY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-0oVQ45blY Short interview

---

It's got nothing to do with a particular religion per se, but facets of it. I equally loathe homophobes, white supremacists, black supremacists, creationists... in fact I myself am extremely intolerant of intolerance - a frequently used quip by comedians.

Amongst the friends I have, religion is not an issue. Christians are not telling me I'll go to hell as I was not baptised and that my gay friends are deviants; Jewish friends manage entire weeks without telling me that they're the chosen people and therefore better than everyone else; I have eaten beef without being attacked by a Hindu and pork without a disgusted speech from a Muslim. All have refrained from informing me that all the others are wrong and I in particular am going to hell as an Agnostic.

When discrimination starts to impact on the, for want of a better phrase, pleasant society then there should be tools for the extremists of whatever stripe to be removed and not to spread their cancer further.

~:smoking:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Husar

Yeah, I just don't get why you say it's fine with you that they stay and then explain that they have no claim on the benefit of staying here.

---

Why wouldn't they. My philosophy, never hurt what doesn't hurt you, they can stay it's all fine by me I got no problem with them. They will never have a problem with me as long as long as that is a courtisy I get back. Am I really asking all that much?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Why wouldn't they. My philosophy, never hurt what doesn't hurt you, they can stay it's all fine by me I got no problem with them. They will never have a problem with me as long as long as that is a courtisy I get back. Am I really asking all that much?

---

I was just wondering why you said it's fine with you that they stay here because that contradicts everything else you say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ironside

The thing of dragging out Christianity has to do with answering the question if it's possible to create a decent secular state in a Muslim country. The answer is yes, even if you probably aren't feeling that right now. Would purging Islam a make a major cultural difference in the direction you want it? No.
Are there severe issues in the Islamic world right now? Yes. Does some immigrants carry that with them? Yes.

As a fellow Swede, do agree that there's issues in the Swedish society today?

Clearly there's something rotten with Sweden. It's not like every other country, but ruled by fanatical feminazis and should be fought in each and every manner that we possibly can, for the betterment of mankind. There's something deeply wrong with this country.

Sweden is a totally lunatic country, and people actually believing in this might as well be hunted for sport if we ever want a society where, say, women are treated as the different gender that they obviously are, and we have a free and open society where godless atheists without morals doesn't rule.

Of course, I mean it's really enough to wipe out Sweden from the map and that all Swedes denounce Sweden and its wicked ways, no need to kill them and I would really prefer it this way. Civilized as I am.

Did reading that make you feel more or less proud to be a Swede? If someone really wants you to change your attitude towards Sweden, should they talk and write like that? In particular since strong feelings in one place tends to leak through the mask that you wear in another place.

---

Reading that made me feel neither less or more proud to be a Swede. Why did you think it would bother me?

Feminazis is indeed a HUGE damn problem, and they take over media more and more... And it IS completely fugged up, what they are doing to the country.

Hunting them for sport seems harsh... But maybe I would enjoy it with one or two of the most lunatic ones... Not to kill, of course. But just generally hunt them around with dogs and whips and stuff... Sure it would be inhumane, but hey, we used to shoot people for high treason.... So this would still be less of a punishment, no?

I dont get how you couple it with atheism... But if that's the way you see it :shrug:

Why the heck would you as an ethnic swede want to wipe out Sweden? Wouldnt it be better if you stood your ground and FOUGHT for the principles you hold in esteem?

Your point falls short as I am really not troubled by sharp opinions.

When I say Islam is ****ed up I mean exactly that. And yes, a world without Islam would be a better world, as I read it.

I am not saying I want to wipe it out though... Let them sit in their damn deserts and treat their women like, "you know what". But let's keep them there. I don't want them around me or my family and friends.

And I sure as HELL would prefer not to have to teach them in school, because of the extra workload that I could easily be without, thankyouverymuch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Why the heck would you as an ethnic swede want to wipe out Sweden? Wouldnt it be better if you stood your ground and FOUGHT for the principles you hold in esteem?

---

Reversing the tables. I'm not standing for that text as my own opinions. But I did trigger my point from you. If you want Islam to change, you can't beat it with a stick. All you'll do is pissing them off and pride/scare the ones that was only nominally Muslim.

And Fragony. If you're cursed by your blood to never belong to the country you were born in and have lived for your entire life, why bother trying to belong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Reversing the tables. I'm not standing for that text as my own opinions. But I did trigger my point from you. If you want Islam to change, you can't beat it with a stick. All you'll do is pissing them off and pride/scare the ones that was only nominally Muslim.

---

I don't want Islam to change.

I don't want Islam to stay the same either.

I don't give a **** about Islam one way or the other. They can do whatever they want in their ****ed cultures.




I just don't want them around ME. Can you get this point?

We had a nation that was held in esteem pretty much worldwide... And in just a generation we have absolutely murdered it, thanks to people like you.

That's my problem, nothing else. What people do elsewhere is their problem. My main concern is the society around me... And in the society around me I would much prefer not to have to deal with Islam.

Husar wrote this:

Quote:

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And Kadagar has claimed in other threads that he thinks Islam is completely unique in being a violent religion IIRC.

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This is a serious accusation. So you wont get away with posting until you answered my reply.

I think you are absolutely delusional here, and I still would like some sort of "I'm sorry" if your accusation proves wrong. You are a tech admin, should be easy for you to show if I ever said anything like what you accuse me for?



I can be very sharp in my arguments at times, admittedly. But the accusation you want to smear on me in this case is just rude, and goes against everything I believe in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

This is a serious accusation.

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No, it's not. Maybe it wasn't perfectly worded either, but here is a hint: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iirc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

So you wont get away with posting until you answered my reply.

---

What? :dizzy2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Husar

No, it's not. Maybe it wasn't perfectly worded either, but here is a hint: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iirc



What? :dizzy2:

---

I know what IIRC means.

But you smeared an opinion on me that I most def don't stand for. If you fugg up like that, a simple "excuse me, I was obviously wrong, my bad" would be in order.

It's my character you attacked... And that is open enough for attacks without people starting to make up their own reasons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

We can judge them on their actions that are based on what the islam dictates. There is no need to judge muslims who do nothing wrong, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything deeply wrong with their religion.

---

I see I'm a bit late for the party, but yes, islam is special. The day it stops being special is the day when a self-proclaimed Crusader state starts enslaving muslims and burning people. Or a Jewish/Hindu/Whatever state does that. Until that day islam is in its very own special niche of depravity. Truly a plague for the 21st century human civilization.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Husar

I was just wondering why you said it's fine with you that they stay here because that contradicts everything else you say.

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There is no contradiction, I have zero problems with the cute headscarved girl at my local supermarket. I only have a problem with those who submit to islam. You can't help being born muslim but submitting to islam is a concious choice. It's a concious choice to follow a vile ideoligy that shouldn't exist here.

The wesf is confused, you can't respect islam and respect human rights at the same time, it's either this or that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Husar

... even Jesus said you're either with me or against me, there is no middle ground...

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pez_79eWSWw
Only a Sith deals in absolutes. :sneaky:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

Answer is simple, I don't think islam belongs here. My attitude doesn't matter as it's their own attitude that makes them unwelcome in western Europe. If you reject a secular society and think your religion is more important than your host country, what the fuck are doing here, just go to a desert of choice where you are among those who feel the same way. Simple as that. Reject and get rejected.

---

You gave your opinion not about islamic "guests", but ANY foreigners coming to live in the Netherlands. So I assume that, say, Germans, Surenamese, Brits or the French don't belong there, in your view. Am I right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Sweden is a totally lunatic country

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:laugh4: You don't know what life in Ukraine is if you forward such a claim.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

Can't have the benefits of society and reject our society it at the same time.

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I saw a video in which a bearded separatists standing at a checkpoint with a grenade-launcher over his shoulder gave an angry philippic on how Ukraine stopped paying pension to him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

And I sure as HELL would prefer not to have to teach them in school, because of the extra workload that I could easily be without, thankyouverymuch.

---

Give them only F's at your class, that will hopefully make them leave for where they belong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I know what IIRC means.

But you smeared an opinion on me that I most def don't stand for. If you fugg up like that, a simple "excuse me, I was obviously wrong, my bad" would be in order.

It's my character you attacked... And that is open enough for attacks without people starting to make up their own reasons.

---

Cry me a river...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053628211

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar

Is it just me, or does muslims seem to be extremely over-represented when it comes to terrorism?

Would it be so unthinkable to argue that there is something rotten in the religion itself?

---

Trying to find the post I encountered countless posts where you belittle me and others for our in your opinion really bad arguments and now you're whining that I may have misrepresented your opinion. So deal with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

There is no contradiction, I have zero problems with the cute headscarved girl at my local supermarket. I only have a problem with those who submit to islam. You can't help being born muslim but submitting to islam is a concious choice. It's a concious choice to follow a vile ideoligy that shouldn't exist here.

The wesf is confused, you can't respect islam and respect human rights at the same time, it's either this or that.

---

The entire part of the conversation was absolutely not about cute girls but evil terrorists, therefore the contradiction. You said yourself that when you say Islam it does not refer to the cute girls but to the ones who follow what you deem the true islam and therefore the terrorists. So unless you change your definition of islam every week to confuse us even more, you contradicted yourself there.

Read what you want read Hussie. I make a destinction. You don't that's fine you are in great company, maybe we can find a cure for apoligising islam one day. But please excuse me for not blaming muslims for being muslims, my sometimes girlfriend from Teheran who is muslim probably wants a word with you but alas, please forgive that I find human rights more important than respect for the islam. By all means, keep respecting islam, I hope you agree with me before it is too late.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

Read what you want read Hussie. I make a destinction. You don't that's fine you are in great company, maybe we can find a cure for apoligising islam one day. But please excuse me for not blaming muslims for being muslims, my sometimes girlfriend from Teheran who is muslim probably wants a word with you but alas, please forgive that I find human rights more important than respect for the islam. By all means, keep respecting islam, I hope you agree with me before it is too late.

---

I will try to make this very clear for you by bolding the most relevant parts of how this began:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

Answer is simple, I don't think islam belongs here. My attitude doesn't matter as it's their own attitude that makes them unwelcome in western Europe. If you reject a secular society and think your religion is more important than your host country, what the fuck are doing here, just go to a desert of choice where you are among those who feel the same way. Simple as that. Reject and get rejected.

About the himself muslim mayor of Rotterdan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yivnQGPFnJY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-0oVQ45blY Short interview

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

I agree, to a degree, but they do apparently stay anyway, nothing we can do. Apparently they have a mind of their own, crazy stuff.

And that guy in the first video seems funny, apparently something weird happened to his glasses that he didn't bother to fix but he still advertises media appearance tutoring in the description of the video. :dizzy2:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

Of course they are going to stay and that's fine with me. But nobody is forcing them to stay they can leave at any time they want if they want to, staying here is a choice , don't take a dumb on my lawn and expect me to like it. We aren't asking all that much from them imho, and that's a favour I would like to have returned. If you want to live in a society of your own you have no claim on the benefits of living in a western society as you distanciate yourself from it. Quid pro quo. Can't have the benefits of society and reject our society it at the same time. If I come to your house and I don't like what you did with the place I don't ask you to refurnish it because I don't like it.

---

Husar, That still doesnt answer where you got:

Quote:

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And Kadagar has claimed in other threads that he thinks Islam is completely unique in being a violent religion IIRC.

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... from.

Yes I have said they are extremely over represented when it comes to terrorism... You know, because they are.

I have however through my years on these boards always been utterly clear about what I think of religions at large... Islam isn't the only religion I have criticised hard.

You just can't read. Islam isn't the same thing as being a muslim, said it over and over again but it somehow never gets though. I can't really take you serious anymore because you simply can't understand the distinction apparently. Maybe a muslim orgar can explain it as I am done with trying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Yes I have said they are extremely over represented when it comes to terrorism... You know, because they are.

---

That's exactly what I said, "completely unique in being a violent religion" was meant as "more violent than other religions" which is close enough to "extremely over represented when it comes to terrorism", apart from that I already said that: "Maybe it wasn't perfectly worded either [...]". You're making a huge deal over a small semantic issue if there even is one, but at least you're only derailing your own thread with it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

You just can't read. Islam isn't the same thing as being a muslim, said it over and over again but it somehow never gets though. I can't really take you serious anymore because you simply can't understand the distinction apparently. Maybe a muslim orgar can explain it as I am done with trying.

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I have been aware of that for a while now as I have explained in previous answers to you and by acknowledging the things you said, as quoted in my last reply to you. I get the impression that you do not read my posts properly and then accuse me of not getting you. I have explained that I get you several times now, I'm not going to repeat it. Go back and read what I said! You're the one who creates unique distinctions that most people don't use in the same way and even when I try to agree with you on your very own linguistic terms you constantly accuse me of not getting it, so what part of "I agree" do you not get???

If I understand you correctly Frag (and I'm trying) you're saying that Muslims are generally okay, in spite of their religion, which you despise, because they don't follow it all that closely anyways?

Sort of the Islamic version of anti-Catholic bigotry? The average Catholic is fine, they just belong to the church of ultimate evil? Lucky for them they don't really believe much of it?