Ummm.... rebellions a bit much?

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11-04-2002, 11:15
Hurin_Rules

Playing as English, I had just killed Almohads and Aragonese, built up an invasion force and launched a crusade against the Egyptians. I didn't even use my king-- all I did was move a few armies from Morocco two lands east. What happens back home? Rebellions in SEVEN provinces simultaneously, and the Danes reappear to boot. Umm, this seems idiotic to me. Maybe if I had just been excommunicated or my king died, but I did NOTHING new. Grrr... the strategic game takes way too much time-- it should be more oriented around battle than moving pieces around on a board.

Just my $0.02.
11-04-2002, 11:48
Eddie the Longshanks

wait until you get a nice little popup message that says "You have conquered 60% of Europe. Do you wish to claim this lesser victory?" click no, wait about 3 or 4 turns, then come back here and talk http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Eddie the Longshanks (edited 11-04-2002).]
11-04-2002, 12:12
PSYCHO

Hmmm.... I don't understand what you guys keep going on about!?
I haven't had a problem with rebellions ...and it aint because I'm some strategic guru.
Just try to think laterally and prevent circumstances that would cause a revolt in real life.
I think the triggers for rebellion are quite realistic and IMHO it adds much to the gameplay.

My $0.01 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Cheers

------------------
PSYCHO HOJO / PSYCHO SO
11-09-2002, 04:29
Brown Wolf

I do think the rebellions are too powerfull. I am still trying to figure out how the scotts got Itallian Infantry.
11-09-2002, 06:32
muffinman14

yup, im still wondering why corsica got five units of vikings Rebellions are destroying the whole world with thousands of men in each rebellion
11-09-2002, 07:37
Jagger

I have been experimenting with the rebellion numbers in crusunitbuild file. I believe any unit which is a faction specific unit not restricted to a region can show up in any rebellion. The Italian Light Infantry is one such unit.

I restricted the build location of that particular unit to Italian regions only such as Milan, Genoa, etc and still built only by Italians. They have now disappeared from rebellions in Scotland. And hopefully from any other locations outside of Italy. I think that solved the problem.
11-09-2002, 09:00
The Scourge

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Brown Wolf @ Nov. 08 2002,21:29)]I do think the rebellions are too powerfull. I am still trying to figure out how the scotts got Itallian Infantry.

Could be they were mercenaries.
You've got to use your imagination. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif
11-09-2002, 10:27
Nobunaga0611

I've had some really large rebellions. In one province, hmm...forget which one, but its right under Aragon, and to the right of Castille I think....anyways I had a 4000 man rebellion. Some were archers, over a thousand were Hobilars, and then mostly peasants. I had just about 460 men in the province, and the situation could have gotten really bad because of all of those hobilars, which were all fielded first. Luckily, I got a bridge map, so my 2 units of spearmen did the job. Too bad they were full in the beginning, and were reduced to 20 men total between the two of them at the end. My general is now a 'Butcher' http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
11-09-2002, 15:50
Lord Romulous

and the cool thing about being a butcher is that u dont get a morale penalty like the lesser prisnor killer vices.

all u get is tons of dread. i guees the oceans of blood convenced your men that if they dont want to contribute to the ocean they better support u fully. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif

but i do agree that post patch the rebellion sizes are too big. i like the cant produce rebellions with unbuildable units for that faction addition but the balancing element eg much larger rebellions is quite over the top.

i think rebellions should have a one stack maximum and typically be between 400 to 700 troops. (the lower the loyalty the closer toward 700 u go. if the loyalty is below 10% then u risk the 1000 -1200 man rebellion
11-09-2002, 17:24
muffinman14

Mabye they were just on vacation. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
11-09-2002, 22:59
MizuKokami

i agree that rebellions are much too large. as for the rebels being mercs., i would think that there would have to be an inn in the province in order for the rebels to hire them. i like the idea that they be limitd to around 700 men, tho i wouldn't even mind a full army of good troops as the rebels. cause i hate chaseing 3000 peasants around the battle field, and captureing better units gets you more money.
11-09-2002, 23:26
HopAlongBunny

Agreed.
Rebellions are way out of hand.

In my present campaign I'm rolling up the Byzantine.
Every time I take Constantinople or Trebizond I get a loyalist rebellion. The one in Const. is always 2 stacks; fitted in silver armour; with a rounded mix of chivalric knights and varangian guards. The Trebizond one has been easier to deal with so far; same unit mix...no silver armour http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

I thought I was being smart.
I flooded both provinces with strat. agents prior to invasion and left them there after each victory....makes no difference.

Between my units and the Golden Horde, we have sliced Byz into almost nothing. They don't possess the capability to produce anything like what is appearing.

I may return if I manage to put down the fourth spontaneous rebellion and relate how it all went http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
11-10-2002, 03:00
Nobunaga0611

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (MizuKokami @ Nov. 09 2002,15:59)]i wouldn't even mind a full army of good troops as the rebels. cause i hate chaseing 3000 peasants around the battle field, and captureing better units gets you more money.

I have a question about this...when you capture people and it says something about "Cost of captured lands" or whatever it says...do you actually get that money? If so, this might be a good way to make money. Let rebellions happen, crush them, get money. As long as you don't lose too many men, it'd be a good way to increase your valour as well, and get more wins under your generals belt.
11-10-2002, 06:32
MizuKokami

yes, that's what i did prepatch. an army of a thousand peasants is only worth about 500. but an army of better troops can net you close to a 1000. mind you, it's no where as good as ransoming back faction armies, but it was better then nothing. now with the new rebelions...dam. in early game, your heirs , a handful of spearmen, and a couple of archer units (if you're lucky), can't beat 3000 peasants mixed in with 300 fanatics, 300 militia sargeants, and 300 archers, the standard rebellion in the pagan lands.
11-10-2002, 07:20
barocca

too large?
i just had a rebellion on malta,
2500 rebels, H5 general, mixed peasants, spearmen, militia units and archers,

i had 3 archers, 2 feudal foot knights and 4 militia,
no general, all honour 1 troops. (440 men)

I held, sat on a hill, and let them come to me,
let my archers fire till the enemy are almost on them, then moved my archers behind my front, attacked allong the line with my foot, and swung my cavalry around either end to roll them up,
broke the first wave, reformed my defences, let them come again, easier to break the second time, because half of them are in bad shape.
Let the AI bring on reinforcements while my guys rest, same tactic, except this time i'm almost out of arrows, let my militia engage h2h, swing the cav around flanks, charge in with my archers,
and the rebels break again..repeat till all rebels have routed.

Not too big in my opinion,
i always have good quality troops and a sound patient plan of defence.
11-10-2002, 08:27
Don Megel

Yeah I lie the big rebelions or Pesants and spearmen. Seams alot more realalistic to me. In England I keep defeting armies with 4 to 1 odds in thier favor. I have to ambush and do this and that. Its great fun. My problem is in each of Scottland'd rebellions they have 4 or 5 units of my Italian Infantry. Also I cant keep Russia for all of the urber rebellions there. I take a province, next year loyalist uprising of several hundred really good units. My Italain Legions assigned to the Russian conquest are all shredded up now, divided and gutted for mthe constand rebellions. Its kinda fun though, add a new dimension...I guess I should have taken the 60% thing... Lol
11-10-2002, 09:18
LordKhaine

So many peasents... you can just bring in some heavy knights on horse and charge straight in. Then you get total slaughter. Large armys dont mean much when the units are so poor and liable to flee.

Just make sure you have a lot of horse, or else you'll be spending all day fighting rebels.
11-10-2002, 12:03
Xer0

I got a ortodox rebellion in cyprus although it said that it was a catholtic rebellion but the province is orthodox. Maybe a bug? Anyway there were 3 units of boyars(&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif and some spearmans and some peasants. It sounds litte strange that you can get boyars units from russia all away to cyprus in a year even though they are mercancry. This new function sucks I think.
11-10-2002, 12:28
LordKhaine

heh, in a currently empty province that was just recently looted and taken over... I got a loyalist rebellion with varangian guard, and a fair bit of byzantine infantry. Makes a change for a rebellion to work in my favour..
11-10-2002, 14:18
Tora

It is possible to get loadsamoney from a revolt without firing a shot.
I had a 2300 man revolt in Volhynia - peasants and fanatics. My 160 man army watched as they advanced then stood around the pond until the timer ran out. (Had this a few times before, rather like the Owari bug in STW). Afterwards the entire revolt was listed as captured, including 5 nobles, and I pocketed two or three thousand florins ransom money.
Apparently it's not only the number of prisoners on the counter that can be ransomed.
11-10-2002, 19:20
MizuKokami

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]i had 3 archers, 2 feudal foot knights and 4 militia,
no general, all honour 1 troops. (440 men)

which of these units were the cav you used to flank?
at any rate, i didn't say i couldn't beat the rebellions, just said they were a pain, and more then they should be.
11-10-2002, 21:03
magnum

I like the new rebellions. They're a challange now. Before the patch you didn't need to worry about them because if the appeared you could quickly gather a few armies and put them down before they did any real damage. Now... now you've got to try and stop the BEFORE they happen. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

Much better

Magnum
11-10-2002, 23:00
MizuKokami

and further, i start on early. the rebels have crossbows and lithuanian cav, both of which are not available until high period. so my opinion is rebels need a cleaning up.
11-11-2002, 04:14
Brown Wolf

I agree with everyone that says the rebellions are too large. The rebellions make if very very hard to pay the Danish if every time a province rebels it takes you years and thousands of florins to take it back. (and on a unrelated note, how do you get that description, like man at arms, to appear under your handle? I want to be a Baron http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif )
11-11-2002, 08:13
MizuKokami

hmmm. i don't know how i got it.
11-11-2002, 08:35
hrvojej

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Xer0 @ Nov. 10 2002,05:03)]It sounds litte strange that you can get boyars units from russia all away to cyprus in a year even though they are mercancry.

Boyars are a royal unit, and cannot become mercenaries, afaik.
11-11-2002, 09:51
solypsist

Yeah these rebellions are fun, but they are a bit too large, low valor or no.
The larger they are = the more expensive they are to bribe
11-11-2002, 18:00
Fearless

I came to the same conclusion as Barocca regarding rebellions with foreign units (Scotland with Italian infantry) the rebels are hiring mercenaries to help win their struggle against a foreign aggressor. Not mentioned in any of the manuals.....................but think about it..........what would you do..........God I love this game something new everyday
11-11-2002, 18:53
Don Megel

I was thinking today (Dangerous I know) and this came to mind. Historicly Scottland was a real pain in the but for the English and where tough to conqure. Perhaps the scotts keep getting Italian Inf in an effort to refelect that.

Could just be merc though but I had Scottland for nearly 200 years before the first revolt and never did my Inn there pick up Itlalians.

I do like the bigger rebelions though, makes for awsome outnumbered battles.

I love this game
11-11-2002, 20:02
Olaf the Unsure

I like the rebellions to be tough. It forces you to pay attention to each of your provinces and makes it more difficult to just steamroll the AI. Otherwise, it's just a matter of achieving a critical mass of provinces and income and then just out-producing everyone else. At least with rebellions, you have watch your back a bit.

The rebellions also make the game more historical. Virtually every ruler during this period spent at least as much time fighting within his own borders as he did outside. England, for example, saw rebellions of various kinds in England or its French possessions in 1066-70, 1152-54, 1173-74, 1194, 1215-17, 1264-65 and 1452-87, not to mention the numerous local uprisings during the Hundred Years' War.

The exotic units that show up in rebellions don't bother me that much. I rationalize them as being mercenaries -- exactly the sorts of guys who would turn up in a rebellion. Plus, after I've spent a few decades fighting Western European armies, the appearance of the odd mercenary horse archer only adds a bit of variety.
11-13-2002, 12:44
The Green Knight

Is it actually true that units involved in a rebellion are limited to a type that can be produced in that province? or if it is a recently conquered provice by the faction that used to control it?

So if we take over a province and destroy everything my understanding would be that only peasants can be produced

However, my experience lately suggests this isnt true so howe the Feck does the thing work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
11-13-2002, 14:12
+DOC+

No i don't believe it is related to the type of units that can be produced in the province. Otherwise a province without any buildings wouldn't be able to have any rebellions since even peasants require the basic fort.

However, i do believe that the units in rebellions are generally linked to the era the game is in as opposed to the actual tech level of the current or old province owner. Generally speaking, i only get feudal units in the early and chivalric in the high, although on one occasion i did get crossbows in the early and they are now allegedly a high unit. However, i am certain that the standard crossbows were actually meant for the early period simply because their mounted counterparts are early units? The arbalesters also effectively replace them in the high period too?

That's my take on it, and yes, i do actually like the new improved rebels Tough and able to curb the rushers expanding too fast. This is probably done this way due to the now apparent reduction in the spy's ability to incite rebellions post-patch. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
11-13-2002, 19:31
hoof

The British in 1776 probably thought the mass rebellion in their colonies across the Atlantic were a bit much http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

The AI gets these mass rebellions as well. I've been playing a hard-level game where I've restricted myself to modern-day Spain (as the Spanish) and Sweden (for trade reasons). This has let me watch as various factions have risen and fallen. In one particular year, the Sicilians had owned about half the map, and suddenly they had the Egyptians resurface attacking 20 of their provinces. The rebellion was eventually crushed (save one or two provinces), but I was amused that the AI can get mass rebellions as well.

What had happened was the Sicilian king had gone on an offensive in Western Europe, and had been temporarily cut off from the rest of the empire. Sure enough, loyalties plummeted on his easternmost provinces.
11-13-2002, 19:52
MizuKokami

yes, the ai does suffer from rebellions as well. i don't know if anyone has noticed, but in the first 4 or 5 years, the russians are usually over run by rebellions, and they die before you even see them. luckily for them, they resurface 2 more times before 20 years go by. to bad i can't resurface like that.:p
11-14-2002, 02:36
Turbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Jagger @ Nov. 09 2002,00:37)]I have been experimenting with the rebellion numbers in crusunitbuild file. I believe any unit which is a faction specific unit not restricted to a region can show up in any rebellion. The Italian Light Infantry is one such unit.

I restricted the build location of that particular unit to Italian regions only such as Milan, Genoa, etc and still built only by Italians. They have now disappeared from rebellions in Scotland. And hopefully from any other locations outside of Italy. I think that solved the problem.

[QUOTE]
How did you restrict the build location?
11-14-2002, 02:49
Azrael

Well, for once this is working in my favour.

The size & frequency of the rebellions can be more than a bit annoying, but this has worked to my favour in Aquitaine, where the Alhomeds are facing a rebellion of about 2000 troops.
Imagine my surprise to see Billmen in the rebellion, especially since I don't have the training facilities for such a Unit, but hey, who cares. I'm dropping in a further 2000 troops from Normandy and kicking these Alhomed rats into touch.

Azrael
11-14-2002, 04:45
Jagger

Hi Turbo,

Here is the ItalianLightInfantry unit from the crusprodbuild file. Note the bolded section. By placing those italian states in that location, now ItalianLightInfantry can only be built in those regions. Since making this change, I have not seen ItalianLightInfantry in any rebellions. Although if I had a rebellion in any of those regions, I might see them in rebellions.

PS: Originally, the Italians could make ItalianLightInfantry anywhere. With this change, the Italians now can only make ItalianLightInfantry in the regions specified. But it does seem to take care of the rebellion problem.

ItalianLightInfantry INFANTRY 400 5 1 0 80 100 1 OK "CATH_BANDITS(-15), CATH_LOYALISTS(-15), CATH_PEASANTS(-15), CATH_REBELS(-15)" ITALIAN "POVERTY_STRICKEN(18.6), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(186), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(148.8), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(148.8), CATHOLIC_TRADER(186), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(186), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(148.8), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(223.2), POPE(279), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(223.2), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(279), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(223.2), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(148.8), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(186), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(186), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(148.8), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(148.8), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(74.4), REBELS(186), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(74.4)" { SPEARMAKER3 } "DEFENDER,SPEAR" ALL_PERIODS YES "HEIGHT( 85 ), RADIUS( 25 ), SCALE( 120 ), PROJECTILE_TYPE( NONE ), SAMURAI( NO ), MARCH_SPEED( 6 ), RUN_SPEED( 10 ), CHARGE_SPEED( 11 ), MIN_TURNSPEED( 2 ), MAX_TURNSPEED( 8 ), TURN_TO_MOTION_SPEED( 8 ), MAX_INMOTION_TURN( 96 ), FORMATION_WIDTH_SPACING( 60 ), FORMATION_LENGTH_SPACING( 60 ), ENGAGEMENT_THRESHOLD( 1500 ), CHARGE_BONUS( 5 ), MELEE_BONUS( 0 ), DEFENCE_BONUS( 3 ), ARMOUR_LEVEL( 3 ), HONOUR_LEVEL( 2 ), AMMO( 0 ), FORMATIONS_PREFERRED_NUM_ROWS( 5 )" NO "own_unit_tooltip1, own_unit_tooltip2, other_unit_tooltip1, other_unit_tooltip2" "MSHELM, YES, YES" ITALIAN "GENOA, SICILY, MILAN, TUSCANY, ROME, PAPAL_STATES, VENICE" "Missile, Shocktroop, Spear, Cavalry" "SKIRMISH(0), ADVANCE_PARTY(1),
OUTFLANKING_FORCE(0), MAIN_BODY(2), HOLD_TERRAIN(2), RESERVE(1), REINFORCEMENT(1), ASSAULT(1), ASSAULT_COVER(0), ASSAULT_COVER_CASTLE_ATTACK(0), COVER(0)" 2 FORMED LARGE YES 1 NO 1 4 SPEAR YES
11-14-2002, 05:40
ichabod

I'm playing as the Spanish. It is 1246 AD and I control at this point 53 provinces. I have built no spies but I have had no revolts. I don't build any assassins either. What I do is 1) upgrade to Keep and Church in every new province 2) build 10 peasant units there at the same time while keeping my large stacks of regular units that captured the province there. Once the 10 are done, I make a Bishop. Then I move my large stacks of regulars into another enemy province. Some provinces I capture can make better troops so once they've made their 10 I let them make some regulars and send them to the (ever expanding) front. I've wiped out the Aragonese, Italians, Sicilians, Germans, French and Almohads. Oh, and that other guy, the Pope. He's tried to come back twice but four units of arablests, six halbreds and my 8* general have stopped him cold. There is a 10 peasant stack there too, but the Pope is special. Otherwise, I allow the occasional province to go rebel when troops remain in a sieged castle after I've killed some King and his line. I just quit the siege. That way, when the French reemereged, they respawned right where I wanted them to. Easy, cheesy, pleasy. I have suffered -0- rebellions aside from the expected 1 province ex-rebel reemergences. Also, I use autotax throughout. At this point, I've been on a big spending spree so I'm down to about 64K florins.
Thank you, CA, for this great patch. I think it saved the single player game. It is now the best game in the world, as it should be.
11-14-2002, 07:52
V'ger

Hi,

These new rebellions, though in their own way a bit odd, don't bother me for the most part. (Except when they happen at the start, on islands, before I have ships. )

But they sure do seem to bother the AI, which is why I wish they were adjustable by us. I'd like to tone down the rebellions the AI has to deal with.
11-14-2002, 15:06
Prodigal

Don't really mind peasant revolts as they're easy to wipe out. I was under the impression that the patch was going to stop rebellions having troops that were unavailble to the province; however from my experience & the posts in here show it's the case for others too, getting rebellions of savagly good troops when the best you're able to field is spearmen & some dodgy nags, (that means horses btw), is a bit harsh. Also there appears to be a set number i.e 3 stacks plus of the little boogers.

Ok maybe I should work on my battle plan for defending against these things, but if anyone wants to take on 600 gothic footknights, & approx 800 intalian inf. with urban militia, spearmen & peasants when outnumbered 4 to 1, be my guest. When that's all you have throwing it away doesn't always seem like the kind of challege I want to undertake.

Could it be that this is a code mix up with the GH?
11-14-2002, 18:00
Orda Khan

Rebellions are a pain

....Orda
11-14-2002, 18:49
Lichgod

Been awhile, so I hope this post works ok.

My little rebellion story in my current game, early period, Danes. It is like turn 1140 or so, just starting to expand out of Scandinavia (I took Ireland and Wales from the initial rebels located there). I put a ship in the Baltic to see what is going on because I dont see any ports like I do around the rest of the map. Turns out, most of Poland and all but one south province in Russia (Novograd is there) belongs to Rebels. Some of these have 2-4 full stacks of troops. This tells me the Rebels are hurting the AI just as bad as the player. The AI is in no shape to defeat such large forces.

So, I land in the weakest province, Lithuania. Take it, move north take that province, then march into Novograd. The 100-300 man Rebel forces in these areas either run away or retreat into the keeps. I am feeling pretty good with my 650 man army seiging Novograd. Next turn, wham, 6000+ rebels counter attack from many adjacent provences.

I go to tactical because earlier I had emisarries checking out some of these big stacks -- mostly peasents. I had 200 Kataphracti mercs (I just love them for the early game), a Prince, and about 400 foot, mostly Vikings built in Norway. The battle lasts about an hour as I fight/chase off wave after wave of peasants with about 25% spear/Xbow/urban Miltia. End results like 180 Danes killed, 600+ Rebels killed, 1800+ Rebels/4 Nobles captured. Normally I let the prisoners go or just kill the ring leaders when no rebel province is adjacent. In this case, I was thinking that freed prisoners would just join back up with their units in the surrounding provencies. So, I killed them all.

The rest of Russia/Poland/East Germany must have 20,000 Rebels in it. Oh well, need to keep an eye out for more Kat horse mercs.

Lichgod
11-15-2002, 00:32
MizuKokami

my experience in lithuania versus rebels is not as glorious for my king, for i was poland and it was early, too early to build an army of mercs. however, when i took lithuania, i did have a full army of men, includeing a 3 star general. i had the right balance of archers, spears, infantry, and cav,includeing horse crossbow men. when i took lithuania, the rebels had in it, one woodsmen, one spearman, a crossbowmen, and 2 lithuanian cav units. the year was around 1115, the early period, and lith cav and crossbowmen are not available yet. never the less, because of the size of my army, they abandoned the province, leaveing the woodsmen alone to garrison the province. between haveing a full army, and lowering the tax rate to very low, i managed to get the loyalty up to 120 something, so i set to assualt the fort. click end turn. as you say, it seems the rebels aren't willing to give up lithuania without a real fight, so in comes every rebel unit in the surrounding area. however, these are rebels that are not from rebellions, they are the early rebels from the start of game. i faced not the thousands upon thousands of peasants you faced, but only about 1500 men. units that comprised of horse archers, lithuanian cav, and crossbow men.with a 5 star gen, and lower ranking generals of 3 and 2 stars themselves. however, as the polish, the need for immediate expansion, and the increase of your influence as your young king now sits on the throne, you can not give up lithuania. if you do, the russians march in and take the other four rebel provinces without a fight, and you are cut off from easy expansion, as lithuania lies in the path of all those juicy provinces. so i dug in, and waited for the fight. being flat and lush, i hid my woodsmen and my urban militia in the trees to my left, and 2 archer and spear units in the trees to the right, purposely leaveing my right flank weak so as to draw the enemy cav into the ambush i had hoped. it worked, and as they brought their cav to bear on my right flank, i threw up a spear unit to hold my flank, and charged from my trees. just as my spears on my right began to waver, my spears from the my ambush hit the rear of their cav, and my archers opened fire. "great", i thought, as my spearmen closed in for the kill. however, lithuanian cav, being a unit from the high era, held long enough to inflict mad damage on all those spear units, and the spearmen did little damage till the cav finally broke. however, with as long as the lithuanian cav held, it bought the enemy time to bring his crossbows to bare on my spears that were finishing off his cav. luckily for me, my crossbow horse were free to charge his crossbows, however, crossbow, again being a high unit, inflicted 20 casualties upon my horse men before they fled, and my pursuit of the routers was cut off by by his horse archers. mean while, on my left flank, the enemy brought a couple of units of spears towards my flank, so i charged my urban militia that was hideing in the trees, and intersected them. the spear unit turned to face them, and they engaged, the fight was on. with his horse archers a threat to my archers, i couldn't give my militia any support, and soon they turned to flee. what a quandry, i had held too long to give up my left flank now, while my right flank was pulling things together, and just about ready to join the the fray in the middle. so i charged a free unit of cross cav into his horse archers, turned my left spears into his pursueing spearmen, and shortly my militia rallied. i brought them and my remaining woodsmen that were not yet used around to the rear of his winning spearmen, and imediately, inspite of the fact that my woods men were behind the enemy, they began to waver. but they held, even as my spears were routing. and together, with my rallied militia, they sent to flight the spears that had nearly broken my flank. hurrahs were heard, and my center charged. into the reamaining of his lth cav that were hitting and running my front line. as my routing spears rallied and came back to the front, i sent them around the main frey on the left, turned them into the cav i had held in the center, and charged my remaining horse cross into his horse archers. as my general and my spears succeeded in surrounding the rest of his lithuanian cav, his general fell to his fear, pushed his way through all of my spear men, and escaped the field, never looking back. soon, the entirety of his remaining troops followed, and i sought to pursue them off the edge of the world, (of which the entire world was that map at that moment). as i pursued, the enemy reinforsements began to arrive, eight remaining horse archers, fresh and ready for battle, and four spear men, includeing his rallying men. they turned, lined up, and obviously took up the position that they would just shoot my men to pieces. at this time, my army was at half the strength they were in the beginning, exhausted and uncertain. soon they began to waver, then all began to rout. ding ding... click here to end battle. and the music began to play the defeat, as even my general ran. had my troops been equal, both armies being of the early period, i would have won. the battle would have still been great and glorious, and even in defeat, it was as about as fun a battle i had ever had. but my general, branded for life a good runner, inspite of the fact he had charged a superior enemy, and had won the initial battle, was no longer good for anything but governing a province tucked away in some safe plot of land, away from all the action. had i had a gun at that moment, i would have shot this once great general to remove his shame.

i do, at this time, like rebellions a bit, as i have recently realized it is possible for rebellions to be fun. but i continue to hold my position that rebel armies need to be cleaned up, and given the troops it takes to match up evenly with my armies, instead of being crazily weak, or crazily superior. and further more, when the lost heir of the english surfaces in tripoli, you got to wonder if reimergeing factions need to be cleaned as well.

ps...as i moved my emmisary into rebel lands to watch, russia moved in to take them without a fight. but he overextended himself, and the russian prince was elimated entirely by rebellions. the rebels, shortly after, swore felity to the byzantine empire, giveing him the largest armies, and four free territories.
11-15-2002, 09:31
The Green Knight

Playing as HRE - Suddenly i have a civil war which i sort out and then genoa, papal states, milan and tuscany which were not part of my territory though were held by rebels, become part of the HRE

also i had an uprising in swabia when loyalty was over 100%
11-15-2002, 10:21
+DOC+

Yeah, one of the most interesting quirks of rebellions is actually when rebels all of a sudden switch their loyalties towards you

I became so used to having to deal with large rebellions of neutrals or other factions against me, that when it happened for me i almost fell of my seat lol, nice touch.

The new rebellious nature of recently conquered provinces makes it all the more difficult to blitzkrieg the other factions and imho this is much better. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif It does, however, make starting off in the early period very difficult for some factions, e.g. the Danes and Poles for instance.
11-15-2002, 17:56
MizuKokami

oh...thank you doc http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif
11-16-2002, 08:31
Lord Romulous

i just had a rebellion in a almo provences. my crusader army of 900 was seiging the castle which was still in almo hands.

rebellion consisted of 15 units of gulam bodyguards and 10 mubatin infantry.

i thought the 15 units of gulams was a bit extreme http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
12-05-2002, 14:36
Sephiroth

Mercenaries does make sense but explain this to me.How could Armenia, a predominantly muslim country, have a catholic rebellion containing Chivalric knights and Feudal foot knights when there were no buildings in the province at all
12-05-2002, 17:04
HopAlongBunny

Rebellions can be great

Playing the Turks atm; rebellion in Rum (over-run by Golden Horde that spawned in Armenia *boggle*) brought me 8 full units of Jan Heavies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif These will likely be the only ones I will get in the game-tech is stone age from civil wars, crusades and invasions.