European Parliament ends visa-free travel for Americans

https://www.yahoo.com/news/european-...131026287.html

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European Parliament ends visa-free travel for Americans

The European Parliament has voted to end visa-free travel for Americans within the EU.

It comes after the US failed to agree visa-free travel for citizens of five EU countries—Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania—as part of a reciprocity agreement. US citizens can normally travel to all countries in the bloc without a visa.

The vote by the parliament's civil liberties committee means Americans will have to apply for extra documents for the next 12 months.

The European Commission discovered three years ago that the US was not meeting its obligations under the reciprocity agreement but has not yet taken any legal action.

Australia, Brunei, Japan and Canada were also failing in their obligations, but all four have lifted, or are soon to lift, any visa restrictions on travel for EU citizens.

Following the committee's vote the Commission must act to suspend the visa waiver for Americans, but the European Parliament or the Council of Europe may object.

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So obama was putting travel restrictions on poland romania cyprus and bulgaria? Why?

That's a good question, especially since Poland is the biggest fan of the US.

Probably out of concern that citizens of those countries might actually stay and live in US illegally.

Anyway, kudos to EU for sticking up for its less influental members.

Maybe that's why? Maybe it looked like a lot of the Poles would immigrate to the US? Contrary to what Trump tried to portray, the Obama administration was quite stingy on immigration. It's just that Trump's policy is more extreme in comparison. I don't agree with the policy towards those countries.

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Originally Posted by Husar

That's a good question, especially since Poland is the biggest fan of the US.

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Being in the USA I heard a lot of jokes about "stupid Poles". Perhaps it was one of the reasons? No one would like throngs of stupid people roaming the neighborhoods at will.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Being in the USA I heard a lot of jokes about "stupid Poles". Perhaps it was one of the reasons? No one would like throngs of stupid people roaming the neighborhoods at will.

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poles

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

poles

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Welcome back Kukri.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Welcome back Kukri.

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He has been popping in to make these sorts of posts every few months. Looking at his post history, his last substantive post was in 2010:

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

What time is it?
How drunk am I?
Am I married?
How long since... you know?

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Following a gap of nearly two years, he returned with the following:

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

has

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His profile puts his age in the 60s.

:shrug:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

He has been popping in to make these sorts of posts every few months. Looking at his post history, his last substantive post was in 2010:
Following a gap of nearly two years, he returned with the following:
His profile puts his age in the 60s.

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There are private reasons, but it is great to see Kukrikhan still returning and enjoy his time at the Org.

He is a man of few but profound words.

The EU is acting more and more like a country.

Given the vast difference between countries such as Germany, and the rampantly corrupt Romania, I'm not surprised that there are different standards for entry.

Let's all watch how glacially slowly the EU moves on this one.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

The EU is acting more and more like a country.

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That would be great if it were true.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Given the vast difference between countries such as Germany, and the rampantly corrupt Romania, I'm not surprised that there are different standards for entry.

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Indeed, Germany doesn't meet certain anti-corruption standards, something the EU complained about a while ago.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/si...chapter_en.pdf

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Some issues have still not been dealt with, such as the lack of sanctions for corruption of
elected officials and the absence of a ‘revolving door’ policy, especially in the public sector.
Further steps could be taken to promote integrity and raise awareness of foreign bribery
among small and medium-sized enterprises.

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Remember when Gerhard Schröder greenlit a pipeline from Gazprom, then lost the election and began working for Gazprom almost immediately afterwards?
At least in Romania the citizens hold their government accountable as we saw recently.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Let's all watch how glacially slowly the EU moves on this one.

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What exactly are you referring to? The OP says "The vote by the parliament's civil liberties committee means Americans will have to apply for extra documents for the next 12 months.", so it would seem the EU has already moved. I can only assume you are referring to how fast glaciers fall apart due to global warming.

To equate one official jumping to a private sector job hardly compares to the corruption Romania has - and the EU has commented on - for years. That it is bad enough for a revolt hardly is a good thing. Except if all states are Bad and we should all run to wards the Enlightenment that is the EU.

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Originally Posted by Husar

What exactly are you referring to? The OP says "The vote by the parliament's civil liberties committee means Americans will have to apply for extra documents for the next 12 months.", so it would seem the EU has already moved. I can only assume you are referring to how fast glaciers fall apart due to global warming.

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Yes it does state that - and I am sure that is what you want to hear and so don't bother to look elsewhere. But sadly that is not the whole truth. Link The EU has known for, oh 3 years or so and has done nothing. This vote means that it can go back to the parliament to have a vote else the MEPs can go to the Courts of Justice... It could happen in 12 months - let's see if it does.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Yes it does state that - and I am sure that is what you want to hear and so don't bother to look elsewhere. But sadly that is not the whole truth. Link The EU has known for, oh 3 years or so and has done nothing. This vote means that it can go back to the parliament to have a vote else the MEPs can go to the Courts of Justice... It could happen in 12 months - let's see if it does.

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Eh, that is also in the OP:

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The European Commission discovered three years ago that the US was not meeting its obligations under the reciprocity agreement but has not yet taken any legal action.

Australia, Brunei, Japan and Canada were also failing in their obligations, but all four have lifted, or are soon to lift, any visa restrictions on travel for EU citizens.

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The second paragraph makes it sound like the EU notified the offending countries and gave them some time to come around. It further indicates that some of them want to come around but are not there yet because they move like glaciers themselves. My interpretation is that they now think that the lack of action on the part of the US warrants this action on the part of the EU, that they basically waited three years on purpose, not that they were unable to do this faster.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

So obama was putting travel restrictions on poland romania cyprus and bulgaria? Why?

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Was the visa-free travel from those countries never there in the first place or removed?

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Originally Posted by Husar

Remember when Gerhard Schröder greenlit a pipeline from Gazprom, then lost the election and began working for Gazprom almost immediately afterwards?

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Is that news? All politicians do something like that (except those that decide they want to retire and pick a committee of their choosing, doing little to no work for a huge salary). It wouldn't even be news if it wasn't Gazprom in question. If he went on to sit on the board of, let's say, Siemens, no one would care.

It's still incomparable to the level of corruption in Romania and its neighbourhood.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Was the visa-free travel from those countries never there in the first place or removed?

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Those countries used to be under the visa waiver program. This was dropped because too many of the visitors were interpreting '<90 days stay for tourism' as 'move in, get a job, count on the amnesty later.'

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Is that news? All politicians do something like that (except those that decide they want to retire and pick a committee of their choosing, doing little to no work for a huge salary). It wouldn't even be news if it wasn't Gazprom in question. If he went on to sit on the board of, let's say, Siemens, no one would care.

It's still incomparable to the level of corruption in Romania and its neighbourhood.

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Of course it is not news, I asked whether people remember it.
Why did the US agree to the reciprocity agreement in the first place then? Did they not know anything about these countries when they signed it and only found out how terrible they are later and hoped noone would notice if they excluded them?
Of course one could ask why they're in the EU in the first place if they're that terrible. We should have built a wall instead.

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Originally Posted by Husar

Of course it is not news, I asked whether people remember it.
Why did the US agree to the reciprocity agreement in the first place then? Did they not know anything about these countries when they signed it and only found out how terrible they are later and hoped noone would notice if they excluded them?
Of course one could ask why they're in the EU in the first place if they're that terrible. We should have built a wall instead.

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I'm not attacking EU decision. In fact, I applaud it. Sure, from the US point of view, the current system probably makes sense, but if EU is supposed to work, it must protect its member states, regardless of size or influence. It's now up to US to determine if this worth the higher cost they would have if they allowed all EU members visa free access.

On the whole, though, it's not like US citizens are that much inconvenienced, so this is mostly symbolic. Still a step in the right direction.

In a similar case, the EU warned the UK repeatedly because the UK didn't do anything to stop illegal immigration of Chinese goods. Now that nothing has been done by UK authorities, the EU's anti fraud office suggests to fine them. As I said above, it seems to be the normal MO to warn countries repeatedly and give them time to fix things before punishments are dished out.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/bu...-35512630.html

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Clothes and shoes were imported through the UK at fictitiously low values for years to avoid duties, the European Anti-Fraud Office (Olaf) found.

Investigators warned HM Revenue and Customs a number of times but they failed to take tough action to curb the problem, it said.

The fraud has cost the EU nearly two billion euro in lost duties between 2013-16 and Olaf has called on the European Commission to reap back the cash from the UK.

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Romania repeatedly asked for visa-free US travel for it's citizens, but we never got that. At least we got Canada.

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

Romania repeatedly asked for visa-free US travel for it's citizens, but we never got that. At least we got Canada.

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Again, probably not a negative comment about Romanians so much as concern that they would stay past the "implied" visa times.

There's nothing worth seeing east of Vienna. Now that I think about it, Croatia might be west of Vienna. The best part about Croatia was drazen petrovic. Man what I wouldn't give to see a united Yugoslavia at the 92 Olympics. The dream team may have actually had to show up the second half.

I still cry myself to sleep the times I think what the football and basketball team could have achieved.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

I still cry myself to sleep the times I think what the football and basketball team could have achieved.

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Yet Croatia as a football team achieved much in 1998. Never could Yugoslavia boast of similar.

Only a few of the players who achieved that would be able to find a spot in Yugoslavian team. 92-98 would have been their years to shine.

https://www.theguardian.com/football...wsstory.sport9

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Only a few of the players who achieved that would be able to find a spot in Yugoslavian team.

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How do you know the united Yugoslavia would have done better or at least shown the same results? The latter is brought about not by the simple sum of great players. There have been examples in football history (and I'm sure not only in football) when the conceit of a gang of great stars brought their team to no success (like the debacle of France after their winnning the world cup). Otherwise Barcelona would be a constant Champions league winner and Brazil - the world cup holder. Should I dwell on the significance of coaching, the team spirit and simple luck the combination of which may lift the team up to the top?

Very often I hear similar comments from Russia on how great the current USSR football/basketball/biathlon team might have been, had the USSR survived. They add the number of medals won at the Olympics by the former USSR states and make far-fetched conclusions. In sports (like in many other fields) simple addition of the best ingredients doesn't guarantee the first class dish. But what you (and many Russians) feel I consider phantom limb pains caused by the nostalgia for the lost empire.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

There's nothing worth seeing east of Vienna.

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:brood:

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

:brood:

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Relax, he's from Texas. They barely tolerate the rest of the states in the USA, much less anything 'furrin.'

And, let's face it, he probably didn't even see Vienna. Being a Texan, he's probably expecting Vienna to come to him.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

And, let's face it, he probably didn't even see Vienna. Being a Texan, he's probably expecting Vienna to come to him.

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Or perhaps he meant the town of Vienna, Texas. It is a bit south of Houston and southeast of Austin.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Or perhaps he meant the town of Vienna, Texas. It is a bit south of Houston and southeast of Austin.

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Funny how you claim to be different/special, yet you name 80% of your towns after European ones. Some of them are even modeled after European ones...
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2013/1...ges-in-us.html

Not that I don't appreciate it, I mean, just admit that you love us. ~:grouphug::smitten::sweetheart::kiss2:

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

And, let's face it, he probably didn't even see Vienna. Being a Texan, he's probably expecting Vienna to come to him.

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You understand me.

Also nearly every town in central Texas has a German name. They infested the place a while back.

A total of five countries (Australia, Brunei, Canada, Japan and the US) were notified in 2014 that if they do not cancel the visa demands on all EU countries within 24 months (as no EU countries demanded visa on their citizens) they would face the threat of visa demands being applied to all member countries.

Only the US has ignored this, as Australia, Brunei and Japan have waived the visa demands and Canada will remove the last ones (on Bulgaria and Romania) in December.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/e...sa-reciprocity

I don't see the problem here.

Crud, wrong thread.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Crud, wrong thread.

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Wrong place, without visa. Deport the fellow.