Ok my dear Fellows. For simplification this topic is opened to house discussions on the "Europa Barbarorum"-Project, to join us or write Essays.
Perhaps we should now List our Group ->
TeutonicKnight
Stefan the Berserker
... (to be Continued)
Printable View
Ok my dear Fellows. For simplification this topic is opened to house discussions on the "Europa Barbarorum"-Project, to join us or write Essays.
Perhaps we should now List our Group ->
TeutonicKnight
Stefan the Berserker
... (to be Continued)
our members also consist of:
Monk
Cebei
Aymar Bois de Mauri (sp?)
Parmenio
frogbeastegg
Big King Sanctafrax
_Martyr_
The Emporer
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif
*off to recruit some more*
We also got:
Psycho
What exactly is it that you are campaigning for?
BTW Teutonic Knight, it is "Aymar de Bois Mauri".
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-stunned.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-huh2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/gc-cry.gif You BAD boy, Teutonic Knight http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...-veryangry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-furious3.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
JOKE http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-jester.gif
Thanks, Ludens http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
To try to make CA improve their rather "approximative" (incorrect, really) depiction of Celts, Britons, Germanics and Dacians in RTW. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-help.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
And whats wrong with half-naked lunatics running around with impressive two handed weapons?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
CBR
Its a good cause, im all for it :)
[joke] Re-election of Bush [/joke] http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...nquisitive.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-wall.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
What is the incorrect depiction?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Are you going to extend your campaign to include the 'incorrect' depiction of Ptolemaic Egypt?
Then join in... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/gc-yes.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-shocked.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-stunned.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
NO WAY http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...-veryangry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-furious3.gif... ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-sick.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-sick.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-sick.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-jester.gif
One thing at a time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-grin2.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
actually.....Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
How did this get to Politics? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-dizzy2.gif
Please back to original topic
Sign me up.
does this mean that i have to have that sig? If so i can just cut and paste right?
No one seems to have answered my question about depicting the barbarians. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything less from the uncivilized quarters.
Is there some thread that explains the problem in a little more detail than this one? I'm having a hard time firing up my enthusiasm for this campaign.
How about depicting Ptolemaic Egypt as it was really? I think that faction is much more important in the relevant timeframe than any of them half-crazed, naked, berserker barbarians http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-tongue2.gif
Actually I am kidding, but why do not extend this "movement" to a broader scope and convince CA to actually give us a generally more accurate game (history-wise)?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-sunny.gif
AND proper language for the Hellenes. No english with accent crap...
If you don't want a picture you can just add a line of text, or come up with your own alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I'm waving a banner for accuracy for all factions, not just barbarians. "No more ancient mummies bought to life for Egypt's army please. Just say NO to occult practices" Inaccurate Romans bother me just as much as inaccurate barbarians and I would rather not play RTW Spartacus style.
I want to join in... I do not know how much time I will have available for research. As I have study, job and football season starting up again...:builder:
Plus some other hobbies as well...
I can not get the banner posted though... can anyone help me out please ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-help.gif
Are we going to send a proposal to CA when this ends?
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Hey, Pindar and CazbolQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
How about reading:
THE CELTS
To Revenant69 and Michiel de Ruyter:
It's just like posting pictures:
In your SIG, just write http://projektstarwars.de/forum/atta...&postid=501917 between the image command.
I totally agree with you, Rosacrux http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...-2thumbsup.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Maybe we can enlarge it to fill all of RomeTW's factions.
I hope so. And as soon as possible. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/gc-yes.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
I am all for historical accuracy for RTW, no matter what faction it isQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
The more accuracy the better in my view.
In today's world, Movies and Computer Games makers are the new historians... People seldom read history books quite as much anymore, and if a historically accurate game can make someone learn something as well as have fun then all the better
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gif
Thanks Aymar, secondly are there any links to a site where ALL of the RTW factions-buildings-units etc. are listed? So that we can understand what is wrong.. I really dont know much about the RTW other than super trailers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-help.gif
Nowake just pmed me and said he wanted to join the revolution http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-sunny.gif
Alright we need to get organized here.
(a) what is the first project that we need to get working on
(b) how do you guys propose to go about doing such project
© which members will be doing what
these are just some questions that need answering before we go any further. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif
I'm sure this has some relevance to history, but you are going to have to prove it. So far there is little to give it any historical background (ok so you are talking about making RTW more historically accurate but there is little mention of history in that.)
It would be more fitting in the Colosseum or maybe even the Tavern...
"The Romans defined all people whom didn't belong to the Romano-Hellenistic Race, as Barbarians." - Mussolini
We'll Face any Mistakes, but as those Mistakes with the northern Barbarians are worst we have begun there. For Egyptans and Punics we were glad for any Information and will tie it to our Request at CA.
This is an Historic Topic, one Unit discription of those I found out comes here:
Germanic Lancemen
--- Formed by the Frydmen of Germania, who have learned to life with the icy Winters and short Summers of their Lands, these Lancemen are known for their Sacrifice on their Masters. Julius Caesar discribes them as disciplined, hard-nosed Warriors fighting in a dense formation he called a "Phalanx". Their mantall Shields, packed one at the other, indeed supplied an almost perfect Protection while their Lances belonged to the deadlyest in the Ancient World. ---
The Germanic Lancers are similar to Hellenistic Hopilites and later English Fyrds (while the Fyrds are their decendants).
“After they had overthrown the Roman cavalry with a densely packed formation, they formed their shield wall (phalanx) and attacked our first battle line from below” (Caes. BG I, 24,2: »REIECTO NOSTRO EQUITATU, PHALANGE FACTA SUB PRIMAM NOSTRAM ACIEM SUCCESSERUNT.«).
Shortly afterwards “they quickly formed their shield wall as they are used to, and repelled our sword attack” (Caes. BG I, 52,4: »AT GERMANI CELERITER EX CONSUETUDINE SUA PHALANGE FACTA IMPETUS GLADIORUM
EXCEPERUNT.«).
Caesar here discribes a Battle he had with them under Ariovistus. As you can see Jules Caesar definatly said Phalange / Phalanx and he intends that this "Phalanx" was trained, throughout he says the Shield wall was formed "quickly".
the dreadful Germanic lances that “inflict wounds from a formidable distance” (Tac. ann. I, 64: »HASTAE INGENTES AD VULNERA FACIENDA QUAMVIS PROCUL«) Germanic graves have revealed specimens of a length of 41-45 cm with lateral cut-outs If this type of thrusting lance is mentioned they are called “enormous” or “over-long lances” (Tac. ann II, 14: »ENORMIS HASTAS«; ann. II, 21: »PRAELONGAS HASTAS«). These expressions may refer to the length of the shaft and respectively to the length and width of the point. In the battle at the Angrivarian Wall (16 AD) the Imperial Guard was not able to storm the Wall because they received severe thrusts from above, and Germanicus Caesar had to withdraw them (cf. Tac. ann. II, 20: »QUIS INPUGNANDUS AGGER, UT SI MURUM
SUCCEDERENT, GRAVIBUS SUPERNE ICTIBUS CONFLICTABANTUR. SENSIT DUX INPAREM COMMINUS PUGNAM…«). The weapons that inflicted those blows from above may well have been such “enormous” and “over-long” lances.
The Germanic Lance Tacitus mentioned is a deadly Weapon with long (about 41-45 Cm) Spearheads, making the Warriors able to break almost any Armor from the Distance.
Germanic Lancemen should then have following special Abilities:
- Bonus against armored Enemys
- Disciplined
- Large Shield
- Bonus against Cavallary
- Good Morale
- Good Charge
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gif
Remember: This is the germanics Standard-Unit, together with Skirmishers
Whoaa.. just easy.. we arent organized yet, I agree Teutonic. We have to divide the work, otherwise people will study what they like and we will end up repeating posts and perhaps some part of barbarian history will remain untouched. Then when we give our proposal to CA, they will look us like playground children.
1-Post a link of the current unit/building/info page, so that people will understand what is missing.
2-Limit the people who are in this FOR REAL. Or weeks later we will still be trying to fit a newcomer into a group "which has room for a guy".
3-Among the enlisted people, divide all into groups like "Celtic Buildings", "Dacian units", "Germanic tactics".. The members of the group should ONLY research that field.
4-WHen each field is completed, the reports will be presented (together with historical proofs, or else we will end up with "Cebeian flying purple tiger lancers") and ALL groups will read ALL reports.
5-After final adjustments some volunteers will complie the findings and sent the proposal to CA.
Long live the Barbaroum
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-sunny.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-sunny.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-sunny.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-sunny.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-sunny.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-sunny.gif
I agree Cebei, that sounds like a good plan of action. Now we need to figure out exactly what categories of research we need to get involved with http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif
I also agree with Sir Ithaskar, we might want to put this in the Colosseum so the other Rome fans will see it. On the other hand the Monastary isn't posted in very often, so this thread would pretty much be guaranteed top of the page status, or close to it. In the end it's really up to Ithaskar, if we're being a hinderance he'll move us http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-happy2.gif
Pindar,Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I do not know what problems you have with the representation of Ptolemeic Egypt. The reason why this campaign is centered around the barbarians, is because the RTW-barbarians are not the barbarians as were fighing against Rome. They are just shirtless guys with large swords. Gaulic / Germanic cultures are ignored and thrown together. That is the reason for the campaign.
What are your reasons for an Africa Egyptinum-campaign?
Ludens
P.s. I hope this was sufficiently unbarbaric to mollify master Pindar.
Ok guys I will attempt to search for information about the Celtic tribes of Britain during this period...
Sadly I don't have any books on the subject yet, but I will work on that.
For now I have the joys of the Internet to help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-computer.gif
We have a Prototype Guideline now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-sunny.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Good work, Cebei http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gif
If he didn't think so... ...who's the barbarian now? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-wink2.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
I think we should have 2(min) or 3(max) person teams. Each team should coordinate among themselves until a prototype research is presented to the rest of the group.
Who will do the Celtic Briton research?
The_Emperor
...
Who will do the Celtic Gaul research?
PSHYCO ???
...
Who will do the Germanic research?
...
...
Who will do the Dacian research?
...
...
Start aplying, boys and girls... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-help.gif
Hey Aymar the link that you have provided me doesnt work in my sig http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...sappointed.gif
ORG says saomethig like "You are not allowed to use that image extension on this board. A valid format is: http://www.domain.com/picture.gif, an invalid format is: http://www.domain.com/picture.one.gif "
Any ideas why I cant attach it to my sig (I mean the Europa Barbarorum sig)?
Thanks,
Rev
EDIT I volunteer myself to do a research on the Dacians. I have a couple of great books that i can start off with and i can always read Tacitus as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-juggle.gif
EDIT2 Aymar Nevermind, Emperor has helped me fix my banner problem. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-party2.gif
I'm going to look up stuff on the Welsh, if that's Ok. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif
Right then guys, I have only been searching the net for little while and I have already found some useful stuff...
The following comes from www.romans-in-britain.org.uk
"Although Britain was divided into areas ruled by individual tribes, they all had very similar attitudes to their communities and way of life.
A tribe would be organised into individual kingdoms with each having it's own ruler who was the monarch of the tribe. Around them would be the members, each having their own status within the community and their own responsibilities.
Most of the income for the people came from the land in the form of arable and livestock farming. Growing cereal crops such as wheat and the rearing of livestock of which cattle and sheep where the main source of meat. This was very much widespread throughout Britain and Europe, which made trade with the continent a viable business. If a country lacked certain items, they could buy it from elsewhere or exchange goods with their neighbours. The British preferred to barter in goods rather than money
On the subject of the tribes, Pytheas, a historian of the time recorded :
This wheat the natives thresh, not on open floors, but in barns because they have so little sunshine and so much rain.
He also wrote :
They (the British) refuse to accept coin and insist on barter, preferring the exchange necessities rather than fix prices.
It is interesting to note that this attitude to bartering goods was still very strong in the period directly before the first Romans, who were avid coin makers, came to Britain in large numbers. The first coinage that we have evidence if did not appear in Britain until the second century BC. This did not mean that Britain was inhabited by total savages set in their old ways, far from it. Diodorus Siculus said :
The inhabitants of that part of Britain which is called Belerion (Land's End) are very fond of strangers and, from their intercourse with foreign merchants, are civilised in their manner of life. They prepare tin, working very carefully the earth in which it is produced. The ground is rocky, but it contains earthy veins, the produce of which is ground down, smelted and purified. They bear the metal into masses, like astrgali, and carry it to a certain island off Britain called Ictis. Then the merchants buy the tin from the natives and carry it over to Gaul, and after traveling overland for about thirty days, they finally bring their load on horse to the mouth of the Rhone.
In this, the time of the Iron Age, the British were very advanced in the production of items from metal, in particular tin from the mines of Cornwall where the raw materials were abundant. From the metals the Celts could forge and shape nearly anything, especially in bronze, of which tin is a major component They were able to manufacture almost anything from the finest swords, spears and chariots to intricate designs on jewelery worn by the aristocracy. Considering their, by today's standards, primitive tools, their achievements were outstanding.
To mention only two instances of the ancient Celtic crafts would be an understatement. But the two most notable and best preserved items are :
The mirror found at Birdlip, Gloucester, which has the most elaborate workings on the enamel inlays in the handle.
The Mayer Mirror, taken from the River Thames, which is totally stunning.
In time, I will be placing pictures of these items on this page.
Metal was not the only material they could make into artefacts., the British were also very adept at making items of clothing from materials made to a high standard. The cloth trades were more towards the east of Cornwall were the tin mines were less concentrated. The most valuable item of attire was the sagum which was a woolen cloak worn by the Roman upper classes. To own such an item gave the impression of the wearer being in the height of fashion. "
It's just like posting a picture in the reply screen, except you don't have the buttons to do it. You have to write it yourself. In the reply screen is:Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
-First you press the Image button - img but with Square Signs
-Then the adress: http://www.metw.net/images/supporter.gif
-Then the Image button again - /img but with Square Signs
In your SIG, because you have no Image button, you have to write the command text, similar to the one which appears when you press the image button.
Here is some more info on the same site...
War and battles
It was not possible to directly compare the strength of one tribe with another since they were all very similar and the only real difference was the actual numbers in each tribe. Without a good knowledge of the opposing tribe, a leader would not potentially sacrifice their own throne for the sake of a needless war,. War was only declared if it was thought necessary and their chances of winning were good. War was common amongst these tribes, but there always had to be a trigger of some sort, such as a raid by an adjoining tribe to steal cattle or women to spark a full scale confrontation.
A young warrior would not be allowed to enter into battle until he had proved his manhood. He managed to prove himself in open display without the need to confront an enemy in battle. as is described below
Celtic equipment
The tribes had basic swords and weapons, along with their own techniques of fighting that developed over time. The ancient Britons had chariots in which they would ride amongst the enemy, hurling their spears into the ranks. It is said these chariots spread terror and confusion amongst the enemy. Indeed during the first Roman expedition of 54 BC. the chariots that were most effective against the Legionaries. The standard Roman battle tactics were designed to be used against ground troops, not such fast moving vehicles of war. Which was why the Romans were reluctant to face an enemy employing a method of fighting they had very little experience of.
Survival of the fittest
These people had a basic attitude to life. They regarded warfare as a part of life, as did many societies of this type throughout the world. It was considered part of their background to have rites that all young men had to perform to pass from adolescence to manhood. This process would show which youths were the fittest and strongest, thereby enabling them to progress into mature warriors. The weaker or puny youths and the physically uncoordinated did not survive and would often be cast out of the tribe. As such they would not survive and so perish when left to fend for themselves. A brutal method, but it ensured that the tribe remained strong and healthy.
This did not mean that all weaker youths were outcasts. Those showing a high degree of intelligence would be placed under the care of the priests who would nurture and encourage their talents for the good of the tribe. It was through these people that new techniques and advances would come. Others who did not posess the physical build to be a warrior, would be placed on farms. So there was at least something most members could contribute to the tribe.
The Celts in battle
The chariots were the most effective weapon, splitting the enemy ranks and allowing the fast moving warriors to run amongst an opponent's soldiers, slashing at them with highly sharpened swords that dealt out death and severe injury those those unfortunate enough to be a target.
The ultimate prize for a Celt was not the victory, but the taking of a human head from the enemy. It was common belief that the whole nature and soul of the person resided here. If a warrior took a head from an enemy, he believed that he took on the heroic qualities of his victim. Heads were kept as trophies and the slaying of an opponent and the removal of the head by a youth was seen as automatic qualification of manhood and he would be accepted as a full member of his tribe.
Celtic Battle tactics
Each tribe had their own method of fighting battles. By far the most common was in the use of the chariots to charge into the enemy's ranks, swords blazing out death. Once they had done their work, the soldiers would then join the battle at points where their leaders thought they would be most effective. It is important to mention here, that contrary to popular belief, the British chariots did not have swords jutting out from the wheels ready to take the legs off whoever was in range. This is one of those myths that has been around for so long, it has been taken as fact.
An advantage of the Britons trading with Europe was the traveling merchants could also collect information on techniques of fighting used in foreign lands. One such technique, copied from the Germans, used was to ride into the battle on horseback, then to leap from the animal and engage in face to face combat using swords. This was highly effective, as the enemy had expected an attack from warriors on horseback, then had to quickly adapt to a frontal ground advance.
As can been seen, this method of fighting was limited to fast assaults where the battle would last a relatively short time. A longer battle involving greater numbers on each side would soon degrade purely due to the physical exhaustion of all involved.
OK So far we have:
Who will do the Celtic Briton research?
The_Emperor
Big King Sanctaphrax
Who will do the Celtic Gaul research?
PSHYCO ???
...
Who will do the Germanic research?
...
...
Who will do the Dacian research?
Revenant69
...
Start working boys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-builder.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gif
Waiting for more... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/gc-yes.gif
BTW, wasn't there a guy of Dacian ascendancy in the forums?
A guy who uses a Kensai picture for avatar?
Doesn't he want to join? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-huh2.gif
I have books on Celtic Britain left over from a couple of modules I had to do in my degree. May as well put them to use. It will be slow going though - I have a lot of stuff to do now.
Caaaaaaaaaaaan someeeeeeonnneeeeeee pppoooooosssstttt aaaaaa lliiiiiinnnnnnnkkkkk offfffff currreeeeeennnnnttt RTW ffaaaaaccctttiiiiiooooonnnnn innnnfffoooooooooo??
You guys jumped to step two right away http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-confused.gif
Late to the party as always http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-beam.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gif
Might as well sign up where somebody is needed. Count me in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Do you mean Nowake? The guy who had Dacian Falxmen as his favourite elite in the colloseum thread? You could PM him, if you wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Unfortunatly I am unable to contribute. I know little about ancient history / archeology with the exception of a few topics, and I have my studies to take care off. The study-coordinators have been amusing themselves by ordering us to read several chapters of "Molecular Biology of the Cell" in an apparently random order (it might just be that is was based on the order of the lessons, but I require evidence before accepting that hypothesis).
Sadists.
Hail Ludens,
I don't mind, and in fact agree with, more as opposed to less accuracy. So, if the Northern barbarians can be protrayed in a way more in line with the period, all the better. I do dislike revisionist views that try to put forward postitions where barbarians are no longer barbarian, but rather on a civilizational par with everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Regarding Egypt: I understand that the game will show the faction as for the most part something akin to Egypt's Nineteenth Dynasty instead of a proper Succesor State and thereby Greek. This seems the greater sin.
I'm with Cebei here, people are going off on wild tangents. focus people focus http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-wall.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
well what sort of faction info would you like me to find and post about? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
can you do Germanic with Stefan?
Yes
sorry but that's all i have to say http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gif
To Cebei:
I could only find this, but I remember another somewere in the Colosseum.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Playable Factions
To Ludens:
Yes. That's him. Thanks... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
OK So far we have:
Who will do the Celtic Briton research?
The_Emperor
Big King Sanctaphrax
Who will do the Celtic Gaul research?
PSHYCO ???
...
Who will do the Germanic research?
Stefan the Berserker
Monk
Who will do the Dacian research?
Revenant69
Nowake ???
So you can add me to the Celtic Britain list. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
OK, I am starting off yet another campaign (fractionalist me): Include Ptolemaic Egypt in the list of the Civs who have to have more historical accuracy of the Europa Barbarorum...
...or should we interested into the more civilized parts of the 4th century BC Europe form some "Cultured Europe" pact to advance our aim for historical accuracy for the Ptolemeans, Seleukids and others To-Be-Butchered???
Maybe we can call our little pact Coniuratio Graecum http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-curtain.gif or cubiculum Graecum... err.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...speechless.gif
Well subjects http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-sunny.gif Nowake http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-sunny.gif talked to Teutonic Knight and he pointed out to this thread, but .. here is nothing - meaning that here is the answer to my enquiry, Teutonic, but not a solution.
Here is a bunch of raw historical information provided by people who don't know very well to what are they aiming for.
Do you think that our beloved developers can't find all that you have said untill now on the net or .. wherever? They can, believe me. Our goal is to point out exactly what they neglected or we at least assume they neglected. We have to make clear sugestions, that solve exactly the problem, not to post general historical information which they will never read.
Do you think that their consultants on history don't have knowledge of your info? The problem in that they haven't found a way of implementing it in game or they prefered an aspect in favor of another, so we have to find the solutions they haven't found yet, to use our common sense and point out the advantages that result from heeding our voice.
And we have to pay attention to detail, very much attention, and read with very much attention every historical information in order to extract the essential - how are we going to do that when our little aristocrat Aymar can't read this thread from top to bottom and see that Nowake already joined Europa barbarorum? Just for the record, Aymar http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-wink2.gif
We should form up teams that consult eachother and present here only the final version. And no member should criticise another ones point of view "in public". Believe me, all this would be transformed into rabble in front of the others. So for the moment use pm.
Another thing, the last: can anyone around here raise up a private forum? The simplest one, where we can "talk" in peace and after that come to the .org with clear projects. Nowake thinks that if we are to try and do a better job that CA's historical advisors, we should do this profesionaly, or we are just going to loose our time.
Now, Nowake will work on dacians, but he can also put some of his effort for the gauls and germans, so if you need some help there, just say it, all books by Tacitus and Julius Caesar were devoured by Nowake this summer, including "Germania" and "De bello gallico". Btw, for those researching the germans, bear in mind to look up in the "Annals" which is full of usefull descriptions of the roman campaigns from across the Rhine.
Nowake's two chopped heads ... uhmm, cents, of course http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-wall.gif
On Germanics: That was usually my Resort... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-wink2.gif
But there are two Units we must talk about:
Druids, germanic Ghodi and the Dacian's Highpriests fill exactly the same Function and can be displayed through one Unit only (they even wore the same White-Robes), but they can't be called "Druids" unless naming Ghodis as Druids was historically incorrect...
The early Christians in England called the "Waelsch" ('Foreigners' -> Briton Celts in 450 A.D.) Druids and their Former own Ghodis "Sèarumen". Sèaruman ment something like "hidden man" or "tricky man" in middle-english, so it could be adopted for naming a Unit representing them all... Anyway the word remembers me to something, maybe because a novel-Figure was named after that word (-> Saruman). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-grin2.gif
How should Barbarian "Emissiarys" be? After what I think they should be Singers like "Barden" or "Minnesänger" in medieval Germany... In Celtic-Language these were called the "Banduri", if I remember correctly. In germanic there are two words for these "Thule" in Scandinavia, and "Skalde" in Germany... Now, there's just the decsision which Name fits best: "Banduri","Thule" or "Skalde"?
alright Nowake,
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Yes it's quite obvious that they have all of this material at their disposal. The problem is that they have looked at most of this material and have rejected it on the assumption that the fans wouldn't care how barbarians are portrayed. That's where we come in, we must convince them otherwise.
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Do you think each group could start a different thread that only the members of that research group will post in? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif
The dacian priests were also elite warriors, fighting on horse (so they can't be depicted as the druids or the ), knew writing, and they were chosen only from the nobility. More info on them later, for know just bear in mind that they were called ktistai http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-wink2.gif
Teutonic, my opinion is that - as for the moment we don't have a private forum - the team members should e-mail eachother the information they have, reach a conclusion and after that post it in a thread dedicated to the specific faction. We'll see how are we going to try to interact with CA later, when we'll have some results.
So, if Revenant69 is a member of my team, he should make his e-mail available (if it isn't already) or send me his adress in a pm (the more "private" solution http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-wink2.gif). Then he should mail me whatever he thinks that deserves my atention (in what concerns the dacians http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-tongue2.gif) and Nowake will do the same.
Regards
WEAPONS:
There were two kinds of Swords in usage within the Barbarians:
Longswords
http://www.ratatoskr.de/024103.jpg
These Swords wighted about 1 Kg and were ca. 90 Cm long, a wonderful Weapon but it was very expensive. The roman Gladius was only 68 Cm long, but wighted 2 Kg (double than the Barbarian Sword).
The Sax
http://www.melbar.de/Blankwaffen/Sch...rter/j2044.jpg
The Sax was invented by the Saxons and was a kind of "Saber" and only sharp at on side*, the producement needed less Iron than for a normal Sword which made the Sax a really cheap Weapon most people could afford. Its less wight of about 400 g caused that the fighting style by useing it was very fast (hack, hack, hack... I'LL HIT YOU ONCE ), by length the Sax was with 70 Cm normally.
* The Sax was sharper than a normal sword, Sax -> Cutting Longsword -> Hacking
Oh great, Aymar answered my prayers. Factions are;
Roman: House of Julii
Roman: House of Brutii
Roman: House of Scipio
Roman: The senat and the people of Rome
Macedonia
Egypt
The Seleucid Empire
Carthage
Parthia
Pontus
Gaul
Germania
Britannia
Armenia
Dacia
Illyria
Numidia
Scythia
Spain
Thracia
rebels
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/mzocker/PDVD_001.jpg
20 factions and 12 are playable from the off. Playable factions are:
Confirmed
1.Rome Julii
2.Rome Brutii
3.Rome Scipio
4.Macedonians
5.Carthage
6.Germans
7.Britain
8.Egypt
9.Gaul
10.Spain
11.Selucids
12. Greek
However we still need an "official" confirmation for this.
These lists are just derived from Aymar's link of the forum.
Barbarian units in the RTW official site:
http://www.totalwar.com/community/images/for.jpg
Gallic Foresters
A life spent hunting is an excellent training for war. Personal courage, skill and the readiness to take a life can all be learned during the hunt. Foresters are highly skilled men who have great ability with both bow and spear, learned over many years of hunting. The need to put meat on the King's table for his warriors means that they are valued members of the community as most barbarians are great meat eaters by preference - and this is one of the reasons that they are strappingly large in comparison to Romans
In battle, Foresters are gathered into their own warbands who are not only excellent archers, but can take advantage of every piece of terrain. They are not heavily armoured, but they are flexible, well-able to use arrow fire to weaken an enemy unit before closing to finish the issue in hand-to-hand combat.
http://www.totalwar.com/community/images/daxe.jpg
Chosen Axemen
Double-handed axes are intimidating weapons, and they should be used to hack a hole in an enemy line. These axes are heavy, superbly made, razor sharp and easily capable of cleaving a man down to his breastbone even through armour. Chosen Axemen are an elite among tribal warriors, selected for their physical size, strength, bravery and - some would say - pig-headedness. They are the assault troops of any barbarian army, the men whose only job is to smash any organised resistance and keep on killing until no foes remain.
Fear is completely alien to them, as is any concept of mercy to a foe or a weakling among their own kind. They are fantastically strong men - and need to be to wield their enormous double-headed axes with any degree of skill and control. Some Chosen Axemen are wealthy enough to have mail coats, but most disdain armour as a sign of cowardice. They may also carry swords as reserve weapons.
http://www.totalwar.com/community/images/baraxe.jpg
Barbarian Axemen
Axemen are close combat warriors. It is their task to break open an enemy line or formation so that their brother warriors can exploit the breach. Axemen are powerful warriors chosen for their size and strength to wield the heavy francisca, a single-headed axe that can split a shield, cuirass, helmet or the skull beneath with a single blow. They also carry heavy shields (to bash opponents as much as for protection) and wear helmets but only light armour. Speedy charges are important, but there is a degree of bravado too, in showing contempt for the enemy's best efforts
Roughly organised into warbands, they are used to hack a way into an enemy line and open a hole for their comrades to exploit. This role is risky, but it is seen as heroic and an opportunity for glory and greatness not to be squandered. Axemen are very brave and are not usually disheartened by their own casualties.
http://www.totalwar.com/community/images/librch.jpg
British Light Chariots
Light Chariots are very fast, very noisy and, when used in large numbers, can drive a frightened or shaken enemy from the field. They are pulled by small, swift ponies and combine the mobility of cavalry with the "staying power" of infantry. Each chariot carries two men: the unarmoured driver concentrates on keeping the vehicles under control, leaving the noble-born warriors to fight using the many javelins that are available on each chariot. Light Chariots are best used to scout ahead of an army as a "reconaissance in force" and to pursue a fleeing enemy. On occasion it may also be worth sacrificing them to break a previously unyielding enemy line.
http://www.totalwar.com/community/images/barar.jpg
Barbarian Archers
Barbarian Archer warbands are composed of fierce, lightly-equipped men who can strike quickly and use terrain to its best advantage. They usually carry a small bow - not the compound bow favoured by the more civilized peoples - and a good selection of hunting and war arrows, designed to cut arteries and pierce armour respectively. They also carry short swords, allowing them to fight hand-to-hand when they must, and they are not armoured, unless an individual has been lucky enough to strip a fallen enemy of gear after a fight. These archers are at their best in wooded country where their keen eye, loose formations and stealthy tactics give them the edge. They can also support charging infantry hordes by expertly unleashing a rain of arrows to dispirit a well-formed enemy line. However, any Archers caught in open ground by heavy troops or cavalry will be in trouble unless they can withdraw to more favourable ground or behind a wall of friendly spearmen. Archers should be used to break up enemy formations, so that heavier troops can do the real killing.
http://www.totalwar.com/community/images/falx.jpg
Dacian Falxmen
The falx is a deadly pole-arm in the hands of an expert. Falxmen should be used to carve a path into an enemy formation. Falxmen fight in loose units, as they need space to wield their weapons to full advantage, and do not bother with shields as the falx requires two hands to use properly. They usually fight bare-chested and wear baggy trousers, with only a skullcap for protection. They are best employed to cut a way into tightly packed enemy units, but can also give a good account of themselves against light cavalry thanks to the reach of the falx. The falx itself is a frightening weapon: a curved cutlass-like blade on the end of a long wooden (almost spear-like) handle. Unlike a cutlass, however, the falx is sharpened along the inner curve of the blade, so that the damage on the blow is done with a pulling motion. When used properly a falx can easily hack off a limb or decapitate an enemy, making anyone unlucky enough to face it unlucky indeed
http://www.totalwar.com/community/images/barcal.jpg
Barbarian Cavalry
Barbarian Cavalry ride small, sturdy and sure-footed horses, and are lead by a wealthy clansman or minor noble. They are capable of darting in to an attack, throwing their javelins, hacking through an unwary, unformed enemy and then making their escape before the opposing troops can react. They carry a sword; a clutch of javelins, a very light shield and can ride swiftly and quietly through woods, scrub and over steep hills where other cavalry units would have diificulty. They are best used as scouts, to ambush or skirmish or to drive away enemy skirmishers. They have little experience of formally organised (or "civilized") cavalry warfare, and are unlikely to be very effective in a straight fight against regular cavalry or properly disciplined infantry.
http://www.totalwar.com/community/images/woad.jpg
Woad Warriors
Woad Warriors are powerful and, quite frankly, scary British warriors. They disdain armour and most clothing, preferring to paint themselves with intricate and stylised magical designs in woad (a blue dye) to deflect enemy blows and missiles. The patterns created can be elaborate and almost inhuman, and distinctly unnerving for enemies unused to such barbarous practices. But the belief in their magic also armours them against fear, and makes them savage and dangerous fighters. Woad Warriors carry a long spear and a small shield and can move very quickly across even rough terrain. It is a foolish commander indeed who underestimates their terrifying effect in a battle.
A new forum member posted this:
what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Could that mean they are making them more "historic", or just adding things like facepaint to them? I guess we shall see http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-huh2.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
ROFL, they already got faceopaints http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-happy2.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
This is an invaluable time to conduct the research. They are already in a period of reformulation so we can influence the game to a great extent
I thought you guys might appreciate this.
A couple of images of Celtic artifacts that prove that these guys were capable of producing very high quality artifacts
http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/...rc_norfolk.jpg
The Above is a gold torc that was found in Norfolk. This would have been worn by a high ranking member of the (Iceni) tribe's noblity.
http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/...up_germany.jpg
A gold cup of Germanic origin.
Are we doing the Iberian Celts? If so I'll go research it, they make up an important part of Hannibal's army as well.
The faction list is slightly above the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Hi guys, here is a breakdown of Julius Caesar's observations of the Celts in Britain.
First impressions of the Celts in Britain are recorded (5.12)
'The population is enormous (he actually says 'infinite'). Buildings are very close together, and in style virtually identical with those in Gaul'. They use as coinage bronze or gold coins, and iron tokens of a standard weight. Tin is mined inland, iron near the coast,' (he seems to have been wrong about this) 'but only in small quantities; the bronze they use is imported. As in Gaul there is wood of every kind available, except beech and pine' - (wrong again). 'The meat of hare, chicken and goose is taboo to them, though they keep them for sport or as pets. The climate is more temperate than in Gaul, with less pronounced cold-spells.' (He obviously hit a patch of our better weather)
Battle tactics (4.33)
In battle they must have been formidable opponents. The account reads;
'This is their method of chariot-warfare. First they drive their horses all over the place, throw weapons, and by means of sheer fear of the horses and the noise of the wheels create confusion in the ranks. Then, when they have broken through the troops of the cavalry, they jump down from their chariots and do battle on foot. Meanwhile their charioteers withdraw gradually from the fighting, and position the chariots so that if the warriors are outnumbered by the enemy they can conveniently beat a hasty retreat and rejoin their own men. Such is the manoeverability of their chariots as a result of daily training, (which also explains the reliability of their infantry in battle), that they are capable of controlling their teams at full gallop down a steep, even precipitous slope, and stopping or turning them on a coin; they are also in the habit of running along the pole, standing on the yoke, and regaining the safety of the chariot again at top speed.'
As Caesar comments himself, 'novel'
Body-painting. (5.14)
Their initial impression in battle must have been made the more alarming by the Celts' use of 'woad'. Having mentioned that those who lived away from the coastal areas clothed themselves in animal skins, Caesar goes on to say that: -
'all Britons paint themselves with woad, which turns the skin a bluish-green colour; hence their appearance is all the more horrific in battle. They grow their hair long, and shave every part of their body except the top of the head and the upper lip.'
The Druids. (6.13 ff)
In the course of his account of the Gallic (i.e continental) tribes, Caesar has a good deal to say about the Druids, and early on in the passage he mentions that 'it is thought that their Rule of life was first found in Britain, and then taken across to Gaul; nowadays, those who wish to enquire into it more closely travel there in orde to find out more about it.'
Regarding Druidic training he says 'The Druids usually take no part in was, and do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. They are exempt from military service, and indeed are excused from all such obligations. These advantages prove a considerable attraction; there is no shortage of volunteers for training, and others are even sent off by parents and relatives.
With regard to the Bardic tradition of the Druids Caesar says 'Once there they are said to have to learn by heart a great deal of poetry; indeed many stay on in training for twenty years. They consider it wrong to commit all these things to writing, though in other matters, indeed both in public and private documents they use the Greek alphabet. Presumably they do this for two reasons; first, because they do not want the details of their training to become common knowledge; and secondly, because they feel that once these details were written down those undegoing training would be less inclined to develop their memory.
It should be noted that Stonehenge predates the Celts by a number of centuries, however the religion of the Druids is suspected to be based on much older rituals.
The Druids would finally meet their end on the Island of Mona. (Angelssy) The source for the following is from Tacitus...
[The Druids at Mona Island]
On the opposite shore stood the Britons, close embodied, and prepared for action. Women were seen running through the ranks in wild disorder; their apparel funeral; their hair loose to the wind, in their hands flaming torches, and their whole appearance resembling the frantic rage of the Furies. The Druids were ranged in order, with hands uplifted, invoking the gods, and pouring forth horrible imprecations. The novelty of the fight struck the Romans with awe and terror. They stood in stupid amazement, as if their limbs were benumbed, riveted to one spot, a mark for the enemy. The exhortations of the general diffused new vigour through the ranks, and the men, by mutual reproaches, inflamed each other to deeds of valour. They felt the disgrace of yielding to a troop of women, and a band of fanatic priests; they advanced their standards, and rushed on to the attack with impetuous fury.
The Britons perished in the flames, which they themselves had kindled. The island fell, and a garrison was established to retain it in subjection. The religious groves, dedicated to superstition and barbarous rites, were levelled to the ground. In those recesses, the natives [stained] their altars with the blood of their prisoners, and in the entrails of men explored the will of the gods. While Suetonius was employed in making his arrangements to secure the island, he received intelligence that Britain had revolted, and that the whole province was up in arms. (Boudicca)
Sadly we rely on the Romans for a great deal of information about the British Celts because they did not write, instead they passed down their knowledge by word of mouth.
We must allow for exaggeration on the part of the roman authors... History is after all written by the victors
As for Human Sacrifice, there is no real knowledge of what the rituals of the Druids actually were, but it is thought that they didn't practice human sacrifice.
Wow Cebei, you and Emporer are putting a lot of effort into this, great work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gif
Let's hit em while they're down Yeah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...-2thumbsup.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
No Celtic or Germanic people practised human Sacrifice, smashed down Enemys were usally "Sacered" by the fighters to their preffered God (Similar like Crusaders held prayers to thank God for their Victories). This was done in the imagination that the defeated Enemy would then become a servant of this God, expecially in Germanic Areas this was done in form of the Walhalla-Cult.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Buuuuuuuuuáááááááááááááhhhhhhhhhhhhhh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif Nowake is making fun of me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/gc-cry.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Joke http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-jester.gif
I didn't know you had joined http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-shocked.gif
But I did read it all... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-stunned.gif
Something slipped by http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...nquisitive.gif
BTW, great post, Nowake http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gif
Just to avoid confusion:
Who will do the Celtic Briton research?
The_Emperor
Big King Sanctaphrax
frogbeastegg
Who will do the Celtic Gaul research?
PSHYCO
...
Who will do the Germanic research?
Stefan the Berserker
Monk
Who will do the Dacian research?
Revenant69
Nowake
Who will do the Celti-Iberian research?
Parmenio
Aymar de Bois Mauri
Game accuracy information:
Cebei
Runes
Tacitus in Germania, chapter X (date, AD 98):
Auspicia sortesque ut qui maxime observant. Sortium consuetudo simplex: virgam frugiferae arbori decisam in surculos amputant eosque notis quibusdam discretos super candidam vestem temere ac fortuito spargunt; mox, si publice consultetur, sacerdos civitat is, sin privatim, ipse pater familiae precatus deos caelumque suspiciens ter singulos tollit, sublatos secundum impressam ante notam interpretatur.
They, more than anyone, attend to omens and divination. Their custom with regards to divination is simple: They cut down a branch from a fruit-bearing tree, and chop it into twigs; they mark these with certain signs, and sprinkle them randomly upon a w hite cloth. Thereupon, the priest of the community, if it is a public matter, or the head of the household, if it is a private one, having called upon the gods, looks up to the sky and takes up three of the twigs, one after another, and interprets them ac cording to the signs previously carved on them.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...unengorig.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
------
The Runes are reported by Tacitus in 71 A.D. and in 200 A.D. in southern Norway the first artifact with Runic-Signs was found.
The Runes were a Script used by the Germanics in adoption of northern Etruscian Script, a proove for that theory is the Harigasthelmet from 600 B.C., which has the germanic Name "Harigast" written on it in etrusican Script.
http://www.khm.at/system2.html?/static/page1583.html
It was only logical if Runes appeared in RTW by putting them on Army-Banners or on Shields...
A good Font can be found here:
ftp://archaeologie-online.de/fonts/runettf.zip
Nowake will do the research for the gauls along with Psycho, if everyone agrees.
Nowake will have a material by next week about the dacians, also.
And this brings me to the next point of discussion:
I don't want to be the one to criticise or anything, but I have to ask you Teutonic: what will CA do with those photos depicting celtic art or whatever?
Or with the text that so generally depict the celtic way of living (both on this page)??
Because let me tell you, I saw those materials on more than one occasion. It may seem odd to you, but I think it's better if we are going to write the material, not take it from the internet. Even if you have a good source, take the material and work with it. Say what you want to have in the game, how is it possible to implement it and then back it up with historical information. And don't post just bits and pieces, find all the known flaws of a faction, then write all the solutions for it, make a cohesive text, and then post it. Or else people will not take us seriously
This is the way we can really do something, not through copy and paste and "hey, look, I can use google" kind of stuff.
Revenant69, I got your pm, as soon as I'll have something that I can post, I'll mail it to you (probably nexy week, I must go through multiple sources and make it worth reading). You shall do the same I hope.
I have found a lot of information about fortifications used by the Celtic Britons, and some info on battle gear.
I will post it later on when I am back home from work.
In response to what Nowake was sayingI was planning to produce a summary report when I had finished collating stuff in this thread... I will use that to explain my vision of how the Celtic tribes of Britons could be in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I'll join Cebei and help look at overall accuracy (as best I can) if he doesn't mind http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-beam.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif
I am still looking for what exactly I can do for this project. Until now we got a faction list, and a "to-be-updated" unit information.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Now things to do:
1-Check whether the faction list in the pic CA provided is historically accurate. List BS or missing factions.
2-Comment on the current units. Check which one are incorrect and AFTER THE FACTION LIST IS FULLY COMPLETE fill in the gaps.
3-A reminder: Quoting from official RTW site.
The timeframe covers approximately 264BC (the start of the 1st Punic War) to around 14AD (the death of Emperor Augustus). The main campaign will be the rise and eventual death of the Republic, including Civil Wars and the various reforms of the Roman army. The most important of these reforms, under Marius, changed the whole Roman 'way of war', and the game reflects these changes. There's loads of juicy stuff in the period: the Punic Wars, Hannibal, Spartacus, Pompey, Caesar in Gaul, the conquest of Spain, the rise of Roman 'Imperial' pretensions in the leading families, and finally the seizure of power by the Imperators... That's a lot of gameplay and history We will be including a couple of smaller campaigns and a selection of tasty and exciting historical battles for those who want a snack rather than a full-on Roman feast :)
So this is basically the timeframe we are going to work on.
Well honestly I was expecting someone else would do that and I would research the historical accuracy, while I am sitting next to the largest library in the Balkans and the Middle East. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif Anywayz...Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
To Nowake:
quoting from myself:Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I think we will receive a similar criticism from anybody, who is willing to put effort in this. Cant we just organize for a second please?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Nowake, you can find the faction and unit info slightly above the thread.
You are joking right?... Of course Welcome aboard, though I dont have any better source than the totalwar.com http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...nquisitive.gif We gotta find reliable "insider" information. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-lost.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Structures and Fortifications used by the Britons.
During the Iron Age, different structures were used, however large, thatched roundhouses seem to be the most common structure used by most of the Tribes. They were made of wood
It is likely that the house would have been divided into different areas for eating, sleeping and communal activities. The fire is stationed in the very heart of the home providing the heat and light required by all.
The remains of stone-built houses called duns have also been found in central Scotland, Argyll and Galloway.
Hill Forts, Brochs and Crannogs
The Tribes of Britons were nearly always at war with one another, and as a result impressive fortifications were constructed as a response to the raids and incursions by other Tribes, they also reflected the power and status of the tribe that built them.
Hill Forts were made up of collections of Roundhouses, and varied considerably in size and complexity. Some are less than half the size of a Football pitch with very few buildings. Others encompass whole communities on a defendable hilltop, surrounded by ditches and steep banks.
The hill fort of Maiden Castle in Dorset is a great example.
Even today the ditches and banks of Maiden Castle Hill Fort are a spectacular impression in the British landscape. Covering an area of over 45 Acres The site is largely Iron Age construction. There are literally hundreds of such sites in Britain but most are a lot smaller than Maiden Castle, it is in fact the largest Iron Age Hill Fort in Europe.
http://www.historic-uk.com/Destinati...dencastle4.jpg
“some ramparts rising to a height of 6 metres (20 feet). “ (I wouldn’t like to have assaulted that)
Scotland boasts some truly impressive defences, built as an effect of fighting among its tribes. (This may help to explain why it was never fully subdued by the Romans).
In the North and the West of Scotland where there were very few trees the settlements were built of stone, but they were still built to the same design. Often they built Brochs beside their huts into which they would retreat if they came under attack. These were huge circular, stone constructions, much wider at the base with a tiny entrance.
People could herd their livestock into the Brochs if necessary, as these were kept stocked with supplies of food. Water supplies, or even a well inside, ensured the survival of a tribe when under threat.
http://netmedia.co.uk/history/week-3/broch.jpg
(Check out the thickness of those walls guys) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-stunned.gif
Also in Scotland the Celts built settlements called Crannogs, which were floating wooden settlements on lochs and moors. A floating platform would be built from wood and upon this floating platform they would build a round hut approximately fifteen metres in diameter. Around the timber walls of the crannogs, there was a walkway, and on the side looking over the loch access for a harbour. A narrow causeway reached the shore. The people who lived here planted crops in nearby fields, and could withdraw to their Crannogs should danger threaten
http://netmedia.co.uk/history/week-3/crannog.gif
Alright guys, that’s about it for my bit on fortifications.
Equipment
After checking at numerous sites I have found out that the Spear was the main weapon of the time, Practically every warrior would have one no matter his level in society.
In addition the Javelin was also very common among, presumably the spear and Javelin were the easiest weapons to make and get your hands on.
Sword were used by warriors of high station within the Tribes, this would be used with the Shield in regular combat they were around 70CM in length, Sword development was an artwork at the time so their use was more limited.
The very elite of Celtic Society could have possession of Armoured Helmets and some Chain mail, however these were extremely rare and were reserved by Chieftans and the Nobility of the Tribe.
No Evidence of Archery being used either for hunting or for warfare has been found from this period, and in fact the Sling was a more common weapon to shoot stones at enemies. In one Hill Fort some 20,000 stones were found, which indicates that it was a very widespread weapon at the time and especially used to defend the Hill Forts from attack. (presumably this is one of the reasons why the Celts lost, because the Roman Shields would offer good protection)
Axes do not seem to be the mainstay of the Celtic armies, but it can be assumed that during a time of crisis anything that would work as a weapon will do for those at the bottom end of the social ladder… As such they could have been used, but they were not the mainstay weapon in the Armies of Britons (Contrary to what we currently seem to have).
I hope you guys enjoyed reading this.
who would you like me to kll? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-grin2.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
what exactly are we looking for in the way of "inside information"? With my pushy personality and your booksmarts we should accomplish much http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-grin2.gif
We have to find ANY CA staff. They must know that the fans are preparing a study. There MUST be a staff here in the forum.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-builder.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
I will hunt them to the end of the earth http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-glasses2.gif
They often post in the Colosseum, so a thread with a link in it could be handy. (Or maybe moving it)Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-rifle.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Who are they? Any nicks? And perhaps it is a good idea to move the thread into the colloseum..Quote:
Originally Posted by [b