Eastern Promise

With all the subtle hints going around I felt it was time to spill the beans. Maybe my boss DJ can make this thread a sticky?

I'm pleased to announce my next project, which currently features the working title of 'Eastern Promise'. It centres around a map, devotedly created to resemble the current map. The top left of it is the bottom right corner of the current map, from Hungary to Syria. Yet that's just the tip of the iceberg. It will reach as far across as modern day Turkestan (near Samarkand), down to mid-India (Goa) and then all the way back across to central Africa in Darfur. There will be 4 periods:

Early - set around 1099, the time of the First Crusade.

High - set around 1220, when Genghis Khan and the Mongols enter the equation.

Late - set around 1360, when Timur began his expansion.

Twilight - 1453 to 1568, the time of the rise of the Ottoman Empire.

A massive undertaking as you can see, and one that I'm gonna need some help with I've asked the likes of Cebei for historical info and Turbo for modding experience. However, I feel I'm really gonna need a unit designer. Flip and Duke John spring to mind, but they seem very busy at the minute with their own projects. I think I'll only need about 2 or 3, so we'll have to wait and see. I will now proceed to answer your questions:

So what stage is the mod at?

Well, the map is about 2/3 complete. As is the way when creating a map similar to the original one (ask DJ), it takes an age to complete. I may post work in progress shots if demand is high enough. Apart from that, nothing has been done. As you can see, it's in its very early stages, and that is why I was sceptical about revealing all at such an early stage.

So what positions are available?

Well, I'm not really used to working with others, which is why I want to limit the modding side of things to me, (hopefully) Turbo and if we're lucky, a unit model designer. Historical info wise, I think Cebei can really help me as far as Turkey, Asia Minor et al go, and I have plenty of books about the Mongols and Tartars, but Africa, from Egypt down is the difficult one. Any names, unit info and titles for the likes of Darfur and Ethiopia would be great.

So what will this mod feature?

Well, if everything goes to plan, it should feature:

* A brand new map covering Eastern Europe, Southern Russia, North to Central Africa, the Middle East, Khazar and India.
* 4 periods of play, beginning in 1099 and ending in 1568 (not final)
* The full quota of factions (30) in each period
* New trade goods
* A ton of new units, and hopefully brand new models
* New agents
* New religions, namely Hindu and Christian (can religions be added? I'm sure we could replace Heretic with Hindu and African Christianity could either be Pagan or Catholic if worse comes to worse)
* New Buildings (I'm thinking Hindu religious ones, maybe Elephant keepers and whatnot)
* Historial heroes and maybe Kings
* New names, plus new faction and regional titles
* New portraits (I'm thinking black people, maybe Muslim princesses, and certainly Indian portraits)
* Flip's Elephants (We have permission)

So when can we expect to play it?

Someone's selfish aren't they?? If we say a vague two months then lets look to get a BETA out by then. But I really want it finished by Rome's release

But BKB how could you? You haven't even finished Super Late What about the loyal Super Mod fans? How could you betray us?

Whoa calm down Super Late's on the backburner till I finish the map. A week's devoted attention to it should do the job. I'll then decide whether or not to do a final release with homeland goals and other stuff or press ahead with the new mod. Eastern Promise is on a far bigger scale and I'll need all your support.


So there you have it. Any questions, unit ideas (which I'm always open to), research (including pictures) or discussion can be posted here. Hell, most of you will probably hate the name of the mod - if you don't like it, I'm open to suggestions Now I'm off to finish off the Caspian.
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This idea was/is at the top of my wishlist, particularly since my rescent visits to India, Nepal and Thailand. A Timurid army would Kick ass. Will there be room for the Yaun Chinese. Be cool to have fire lances and those multiple rocket launchers.
Also looking forward to the Song, Sahel, Ghanians and Sudanese etc. All the army list are available on the DBA website plus all the illustrations for new unit icons, which you've probably already got. If not I'll be glad to go get em. Not sure if HTW has any other transferable units or if some of the STW units could be edited a bit. (i.e get rid of the banners/flags(Cant remember their name in Japanese)on there backs). The Burnous stuff is of course ideal but it would be better with totaly new bif's. Hope some of the animators jump on this mod, coz the idea rocks.
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The Sudanese will be in, but I'm not too sure about the other African states - Darfur looks likely though. Ghana no as that's on the West coast. Ethiopians definitely, but if I'm honest I don't know a great deal about the Africa in this period.

With the Europeans still featuring, and various Catholic states (Papacy, Hospitallers, Crusaders) there won't be a great deal of room to play around with as far as the BIFs go. Still, I'll look for ways around it.

China we'll have to see about. A tiny part of it might just make it onto the map, but whether or not they'd be a certifiable faction is questionable.

And unfortunately invasions are impossible to do (as far as I'm aware), hence the periods starting when they do.

. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif I suppose the Yaun Chinese where a Mongol Dynasty, thus any Chinese province could be part of the Mongol Khanate (depending on the Date). So A Chinese province would perhaps produce a few unique units but not be independant. My knowledge of Ethiopia and Africa is also failry limited. I remember a little about Ethiopia's King Lali Bella, that they had some good knights and that they resisted the Muslim expansion. But that was alot down to Ethiopia's geography. I'll see what else I can dig up.
Ok, later Dude.
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p.s Didn't read your original post thoroughly. The Song and Sahel are probably both a bit western african for your need's

so the secrets finally out. hopefully, all the aid you need will be given to you, its hard to see why it wouldnt be, especially as certain modders, like wesw, get all the help they need.

Whereas others don't http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif
Any unit graphics designers out there.. please

Sorry, that was a bit off topic.

All I can say is that this mod is bound to be a success, seeing as it was started by BKB http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

This sounds like a good idea brand new map, new units. Wish i could help though but i have school..

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Wow. Very cool. Can't wait for it to come out, and give it a whirl. Any chance any of the units from this can go into the Mongols in your Super Mod? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

Theres every chance but we will have to see. Bloody Unit space and all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-wall.gif

Nice project Bkb
another mod to play

A little overview of Medieval Mughal India:-

Medieval India
The period following the death of Harsha is known as the Rajput period. The word Rajput connotes the scion of a royal family and these princes claimed descent from the sun or the moon. This was an era of chivalry and feudalism. Family feuds and strong notions of personal pride often exacerbated conflicts. The Rajputs weakened each other by constant fighting. This allowed the foreigners (Turks) to embark on victorious campaigns using duplicity and deceit wherever military strength failed against Rajputs.

One of them, Mohammad Ghori defeated Prithviraj Chauhan, the Tomar ruler of Delhi, at the battle of Tarain in 1192 and left the Indian territories in the charge of his deputy, Qutubudin (reign - 1206 - 1210), who had started life as a slave. This is the reason that the dynasty founded by him is known as the Slave Dynasty. It is he who built the towering Qutub Minar in Delhi. Raziya (reign - 1236 - 1239), the daughter of his successor Iltutmish (reign - 1210 - 1236), was quite an exception for that age. She sat on the throne of Delhi for a short while. Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Sayyids and Lodis followed in the footsteps of the 'Slaves'. This period is known as the Sultanate. Only a few rulers distinguished themselves in statecraft. Allauddin Khilji (reign - 1296 - 1316) was not only a distinguished commander but also an able administrator. He is remembered for his military campaign in the south as well as market reforms and price control measures. Muhammad Tughlaq (reign - 1324 - 1351) was a visionary who had the misfortune of being misunderstood by almost everyone who came in his contact. Modern historians, however, have judged him more sympathetically. Once derided for his whimsical decisions - he once ordered the imperial capital to be shifted to Daulatabad in the Deccan as the site was more central - he is now given credit for his unusual 'vision'. Lodis were, by comparison, quite mild and are only recalled when one is in the vicinity of the majestic Lodi tombs set in beautifully landscaped gardens. The Sultanate introduced, in the sub continent, the Islamic concepts of society and governance, and thus prepared the ground for a scintillating encounter between two important world civilisations.

When the power of the Sultans declined, the outlying provinces once again became important and the process of Hindu Islamic synthesis continued almost without any interruption.

Much before the expulsion of the last Lodi ruler from Delhi by Babur the lustre of the Sultanate had dulled. Babur (reign - 1526-30), the founder of the Mughal Empire in India, was a descendant of Timur as well as Changez Khan. Ousted by his cousins from the small principality in Central Asia that he had inherited, he came to India and defeated Ibrahim, the last Lodi Sultan in 1526 at the First Battle of Panipat. There was a brief interruption to Mughal rule when Babur's son Humayun (reign - 1530-40) was ousted from Delhi, by Sher Shah, an Afghan chieftain.

Sher Shah (reign - 1540-55), assumed power in the imperial capital for a short while. He is remembered as the builder of the Grand Trunk road that spanned the distance from Peshawar to Patna and also one who introduced major reforms in the revenue system, gratefully retained by the Mughals.

It was Babur's grandson Akbar (reign - 1556-1605), who consolidated political power and extended his empire over practically the whole of north India and parts of the south. Akbar realized that if the empire was to attain stability, it must grow roots in the native soil, and that it should seek support from the local ruling groups.

Just some basics, You've probabaly already got this info BKB. Found alot more stuff, just sifting through it.
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And a bit more
India
Southern Dynasties
The sultans' failure to hold securely the Deccan and South India resulted in the rise of competing southern dynasties: the Muslim Bahmani Sultanate (1347-1527) and the Hindu Vijayanagar Empire (1336-1565). Zafar Khan, a former provincial governor under the Tughluqs, revolted against his Turkic overlord and proclaimed himself sultan, taking the title Ala-ud-Din Bahman Shah in 1347. The Bahmani Sultanate, located in the northern Deccan, lasted for almost two centuries, until it fragmented into five smaller states in 1527. The Bahmani Sultanate adopted the patterns established by the Delhi overlords in tax collection and administration, but its downfall was caused in large measure by the competition and hatred between deccani (domiciled Muslim immigrants and local converts) and paradesi (foreigners or officials in temporary service). The Bahmani Sultanate initiated a process of cultural synthesis visible in Hyderabad, where cultural flowering is still expressed in vigorous schools of deccani architecture and painting.

Founded in 1336, the empire of Vijayanagar (named for its capital Vijayanagar, City of Victory, in present-day Karnataka) expanded rapidly toward Madurai in the south and Goa in the west and exerted intermittent control over the east coast and the extreme southwest. Vijayanagar rulers closely followed Chola precedents, especially in collecting agricultural and trade revenues, in giving encouragement to commercial guilds, and in honoring temples with lavish endowments. Added revenue needed for waging war against the Bahmani sultans was raised by introducing a set of taxes on commercial enterprises, professions, and industries. Political rivalry between the Bahmani and the Vijayanagar rulers involved control over the Krishna-Tunghabadhra river basin, which shifted hands depending on whose military was superior at any given time. The Vijayanagar rulers' capacity for gaining victory over their enemies was contingent on ensuring a constant supply of horses--initially through Arab traders but later through the Portuguese--and maintaining internal roads and communication networks. Merchant guilds enjoyed a wide sphere of operation and were able to offset the power of landlords and Brahmans in court politics. Commerce and shipping eventually passed largely into the hands of foreigners, and special facilities and tax concessions were provided for them by the ruler. Arabs and Portuguese competed for influence and control of west coast ports, and, in 1510, Goa passed into Portuguese possession
Ok thats enough block copying for now.
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p.s Both Muslim and non muslim were using steel composite bows and had been since the early 1st millenium AD.

medindia


Maps for Medieval India
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Thanks for that info Nomad, much appreciated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

Some rulers of Indraprastha

5 generations of Prathviraj ruled for 86 years, 0 month and 20 days as
follows:
years months days (length of reign)
1 Prathviraj 12 2 19
2 Abhayapal 14 5 17
3 Durjanpal 11 4 14
4 Udayapal 11 7 3
5 Yashpal 36 4 27

Sultan Shahbuddin Gauri from Garh Gazni attacked raja Yashpal and imprisoned him in the fort of Prayaag in Vikram Sanvat 1249 (1193 AD). 53 Gauri generations, ruled for 745 years, 1 Month and 17.
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 10 2004,11:22)]Thanks for that info Nomad, much appreciated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

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http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif My pleasure m8.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif Good info on Medieval India
This expands upon what I've already posted. Lots of info here.

And heres some stuff on Ethiopia as I promosed. A list of its King's or Negi (Negus being the singular) and a little general info.
1 Yekuno Amlak 1268
2 Yagbe'a Seyon 1285
3 Senfa Ar'ed 1294
4 Hezba Asgad 1295
5 Kedma Asgad 1296
6 Jin Asgad 1297
7 Saba Asgad 1298
8 Wedem Ar'ed 1299
9 'Amda Seyon I 1314
10 Newaya Krestos 1344
11 Newaya Maryam 1372
12 Dawit I 1382
13 Tewodros I 1411
14 Yeshak 1414
15 Endreyas 1429
16 Takla Maryam 1430
17 Sarwe Iyasus 1433
18 'Amda Iyasus 1433
19 Zara Ya'kob Constantine 1434
20 Ba'eda Maryam I 1468
21 Eskandar 1478
22 'Amda Seyon II 1494
23 Na'od 1494
24 Lebna Dengel Dawit II 1508
25 Galawdewos 1540
26 Minas 1559
27 Sarsa Dengel 1563
28 Yakob (1st reign) 1597
29 Za Dengel 1603
Ya'kob (2nd reign) 1604

The Ethiopian culture we know today may be said to date from between the ninth and eleventh centuries, coinciding with Axum's political decline. Judaism and Islam grew to be powerful forces in Ethiopia. The Felasha (Jewish) queen Yodit, daughter of the quasi-legendary Gideon, led a destructive expedition against Axum around 980.
It is believed that following Yodit's death, a Christian king, Anbessa Wudim, returned to Axum to restore Christian control. The Zagwe dynasty, first based in Lasta, emerged around this time. Many of Ethiopia's rock churches at Roha (now Lalibela) date from the reign of the Zagwe king Lalibela. A number of fortresses were also erected during this era.
King Yekuno Amlak ascended the throne in 1270. His origins are uncertain. The Kebre Negest (The Glory of the Kings), one of Ethiopia's most important histories, describes his line's Solomonic descent. The story of Prester John, a legendary Christian ruler of Ethiopia, added luster to the Solomonic monarchs' rule.
In the fourteenth century, Emperor Amda Siyon made a serious effort at expansion, annexing territories and consolidating these into an Ethiopia which more or less conformed to the boundaries of today. To do so, he suppressed ethnic movements and firmly established Ethiopia as an Amharic and Christian nation. He granted a form of autonomy to regional rulers as his feudal vassals with authority over gults, or fiefs, and accommodated Islam.
Zara Yakob, born in 1434, was one of Ethiopia's most remarkable rulers. Renowned for his intelligence, he further developed what had already become two fundamental institutions of the Ethiopian state --Christianity and feudalism. He also instituted a new capital, at Debre Birhan in northern Shewa. Zara Yakob expanded his realm into Eritrea and established tenuous diplomatic ties with several European monarchs.
What followed was a succession of lesser rulers who were forced to contend with Muslim incursions and foreign influences
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Great info about africa there, which is where i've been having the most trouble info wise.

A few recources and provinces for N East Africa

I Think alot of info on African History has been surpressed through colonialism etc. The Christian Kingdoms of the Funj empire (main cities Napata, Soba and Sennar) should emerge in the 15th. Makurra, Alwa, Agau,and Axum were all important regions as was Nubia but Nubia is obviously Ayyubid or Mameluk depending on Date. Of course Darfur itself is very important in this equation. Think Adal will just be of your map south of Ethiopia. Salt was one of the main exports from Axum and Adal. Agau (south Ethiopia) was important for gold, slaves and Musk.
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p.s Forgot to Mention the Nilotes and Nilotic Sudan not a territory as such, rather the dominant tribal/ethnic group in Christian NE africa.

You probably know this, but I find Osprey's books very good for info + pictures.

Yep. Got Mughul India and Armies of the Muslim Conquest today. Gonna get Armies of the Caliphates soon and might get some Essential Histories soon too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Essentials are good, but no pretty pictures. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif

sounds like a cool mod. good luck and I hope you're able to get it out before rome

here is a model of a Timurid Infantryman

Sounds good BKB.

Here, I have information on
Kharazmian shahs and Ethopian rulers

This website, by the way, has a wealth of information about all sorts of rulers.

Great, great info there thanks LOS

when we have the pleassure to play this mod m8 ??
will these mod been released like the super Bkb ??first eraly ,and bla bla

Nah I think I'd prefer to release this as one big mod. See my first post for a tentative release date. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

one big released .
hmmmm
many hours of fun in pc are passing in front of my eyes

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BKB, what will you do about the portraits? Probably the last thing on your mind now, but the existing portraits suck for most of the factions, and will not be able to cover the wide range of ethnicities in your mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/flat.gif

Portraits are easy to find with a quick google. Just takes a little time and effort to get them into the game but no biggie.

Some good news boys. Well some news anyway. After extensive planning and research, i have decided on all the provinces and now press ahead to finishing the map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

Nice m8

Dude, China really needs to be on the map. I can tell ya right now, that once they reached India, China would definately be on thier target list. All the tales about Cathay, (medieval name for China) They would have been nuts to trade there, and even more nuts to control part of there I strongly suggest you add part of China, if not the whole thing. Or at LEAST give us some Chinese units m8. Hell by the 1300's Europeans were already talking about conquering the fabled land of Kingdom of Japan for Christendom

I still love this idea and will dl the minute it's out,

Sword

The map ends on the western most part of Mongolia. I would love to have china in but the room for provinces has proved a real bugger at times.

Seljuq

Safavids

Ismailieh (Hashshashin)

Unfortunately, the Muslim kingdoms that populated Iran do not have an army article, and the Turkic rulers of the land, so important to the Muslim world (especially when the Seljuq arrived), are mentioned in three paragraphs. Sigh. I guess Persians despise the Turks. Really not needed. :\

Hope this helps http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

Edit:: Whoops, 1099-1550... so no Samanids or Saffarids needed.



~Wiz

Ghaznavid Rulers

Ghaznavid History (Don't mind the Pakistan bit - their capital was Ghazna, believed to be somewhere in Pakistan, very near the modern Afghan border, in the eastern reaches of the Hindu Kush)

Can't find anything on their armies as of yet...



~Wiz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif

Thanks for all that info there wizard http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

The Islamic World to 1600

Just about says it all.

I suppose you're going to use your Osprey collection to make up for the internet's lack of military information?



~Wiz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif

Man you guys are giving alot of help and info to BKB This community kicks ass Good job guys

Eastern history is by far my favorite historical subject http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif



~Wiz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 18 2004,06:37)]The map ends on the western most part of Mongolia. I would love to have China in but the room for provinces has proved a real bugger at times.

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Mongolia eh? Can I please see where your sticking Mongolia? In this new book on the Mongols, that I bought it says that Medieval Mongolia was located closer to the Moddle East, and that the area that is now known as Mongolia, was then a part of China.

EDIT: Off Topic: How do I get the thing in my sig to appear as an image instead of a link?

Here is the province list of the far east part of the map:

Eastern steppe(sahara like province, quite huge)
Otrar
Khojend
Kashgar
Khotan
Lahore
Dehli
Malwa
Deogir



I can't really split these up any more as i've reached the limit in province space. I'd love to but other areas seem to need more attention http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

if we kill someone the mod is get out more faster ???

I doubt it mate, maybe my boss at work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

When you say Sahara like region, can we still control it?

of course mate. The point of having the big sparse areas at the north east of the map is to encourage expansion to the west from the mongols, timurids, etc

Lol, actually I was wrong. Medieval Mongolia was actually located on the spot where present day Manchuria is located. Manchuria is lcated right between that are where Northern China and the Korean peninsula meet. So Mongolia was actually quite far into the far east m8. Hope this info has been useful.

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At the moment I'm thinking of carry over an idea from my Super Mod - each period having its own exclusive map. Not drastic differences, just a few new provinces here and there depending on the focus for the period. For example, I wanted Albania primarily for it to house an Albanian faction in Twilight but is it really needed in the first three periods? In Early there could be more Holy Land provinces, in High more Steppe provinces, in Late more Asian provinces and Twilight more Balkan/Turkish provinces to match the theme of the period. It will be a lot of work but would definitely provide more variety. Any thoughts?

Not a bad idea, except for the fact it'll delay the release. I'd rather have this sooner with one map, then wait. Of course, you could release it in incremints like the Super Mod.

Please don't do separate maps Think about the poor people without broadband who would have to spend 6+ hours downloading it Of course, it would be worth it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

umm... buddy, just do what i do, shen you go to bed, leave the internet on all night, and when you wake up, it's done. As for seperate maps, BKB, I think that is an absolutely awesome idea, and you definately have my support. So how far along are you with units and the like?

Off Topic: BKB, is your super mod a self install? I'm not very good with manually placing files everywhere...

I know I can do that SoCC, but I'd prefer to spend less time waiting for it to download and then be able to play. I am in favour of separate maps though. And the super mod isn't self install (yet).

I can help with stuff on Chinese and Mongols if you need.

I might make some chinese mercenary units but they won't be there as a faction. But that would be nice with help with the mongols and later horde's.

I'm working on converting STW mongol cavalry graphics into MTW unit graphics. There are some screens at My Pages (link in my sig). If you think like you'd want to use them BKB, I can provide them for you (when they're finished).

Regards,
EC

That would be great mate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif They look class. Can they fire bows? Also, what animation do they have - hack, prod or both? Is there a lot of space in the BIF for weapons and shields? It's just that I'd like to get as much out of them as possible

How do you make totally new unit BIFs by the way? Your Polish Hussars are great too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif

BKB, you should keep in some Mongol heavies, since they did have some, (according to osprey).

I will mate you can count on it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Um, are you planning to use units from STW. If so definetly, put some samurai units.

Welcome to the org mate


The korean units willbe there but no samurai, as it won't go that far. Sorry mate

Thats wise m8. Samurai would have never hired themselves out to Europeans at this time, or even Chinese. As for Korean units, seeing as I just got a bigass Osprey book covering the Korean army, I can help you immensely there.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 20 2004,20:36)]I might make some chinese mercenary units but they won't be there as a faction. But that would be nice with help with the mongols and later horde's.

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I would love to join as help with Persian units, but first let me expand my collection of Osprey a bit.

Of course, I'd like to do it when I'm already a part of your mod. For this is the kind of setting that really interests me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif



~Wiz

Hey BKB check out this website, you might get some useful info

http://historymedren.about.com/libra.../aa071000a.htm

Seriously boys the map i'm doing, i am really proud of and i think you will really, REALLY like it Honestly its good and you can see pics soon, within a week maybe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

It won't be finished mind http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-dizzy2.gif

SWEET

I'm dying to see that map m8, just DYING.

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I already Died http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-juggle.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-juggle.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-juggle.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-juggle.gif

http://www.friesian.com/images/maps/steppe-3.gif

It's got info on the mongol empires, from the smaller mongol empires before the creation of the golden horde, and after its downfall.

http://www.friesian.com/mongol.htm

http://www.india-history.com/medival...la-empire.html

a map of medieval India for ya BKB. It's from 1100 which is close to where your starting right?

This mod seems very cool if you want some help just tell me what countries you need research on and ill do my best to find their historical information or maybe some other things. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

Thanks for the help and the offers boys, they are all well appriecated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Hey anytime BKB, what are friends for http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...evalcheers.gif

Hope to see that map soon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-smile.gif

No problem BKB. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif

I'll be honest its progressing pretty slow at the mo. I want to finish my SuperMod ASAP to commit everything to do this and Turbo has yet to get back to me. The map is about 2/3 done and once I get that done (its very intricate and time consuming) I think things will speed up sufficiently.

At least we can use some units from my Super Mod: They'll are plenty of Eastern Russian cavalry units in my SuperMod release (Pechenig Horsmen, Chernye Klobucki, Kipchaq Horsemen, Uzbek Heavy Cavalry, Georgian units and more), and I may include Chinese Fire Archers and Naptha Horsemen (small numbers but deadly) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...evalcheers.gif

Take your time we all know it's worth the wait.
And if you rush it the game won't be quite as sweet.

The Blind King of Bohemia

Hello, I am from Georgia, I have participated in couple of mods already, and I can help you with units and other historical information (concerning Georgia) needed for your Mod(s).

Regards, Datka

Thanks. The Georgians also feature in my SuperMod. They currently have 2 exclusive units - Georgian Heavy Cavalry and Georgian Infantry, each having shields featuring the faction emblem (the 4 red crowns in each corner on a white background). I may make Georgian Light Cavalry in this mod, we'll see how unit space is going.

I see, the units' space is limited. Well, anyway let me give u a list of historically correct units, so that u can decide which to include, and which not.
You already have added the Heavy Cavalry and u are going to add the Light (by the way they should be armed by sword and bow). Here I have the descriptions for them:

GEORGIAN LIGHT CAVALRY
Constant warfare against the invading muslims has great influence on Georgian troop types. Sword, bow and horse allow to charge when necssary, skirmish when dealing with not so quick troops and retreat quickly when outnumbered.

GEORGIAN HEAVY CAVALRY
The nobles are elite of feudal society. They hold land where they are true lords, but their sovereign is the King and they are to join his army with their forces as soon as he calles them. They are trained to fight and ride from childhood and can afford heavy equipment of the highest quality. Thus they are the perfect heavy cavalry.

(well this last one doesn't difer from other knights' units description very much, but still http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif )

Here are other Georgian units with descriptions. You decide which are interesting enough to add them.

The Royal Unit:

MONA SPA
Mona Spa are royal Guard. They are chosen from the nobles, that are most trusted and devoted to the King. In peace time they are the force which the King can rely on when dealing with disloyal nobles. On the battlfield they are the heart of Georgian army.


CAUCASIAN MOUNTAINEERS
These people come from high mountains, where process of feudalisation hasn't reached and where still the tribal way of life rules. Neverthless, the mountaineers acknowledge the King of Georgia as they sovereign and when the war comes, they are ready to join the King's army. They are famous as extremely fierce and brave people.

GEORGIAN SPEARMEN
Spear is one of the weapons, that low classes of the feudal society can afford. The King and the nobles gather these soldiers among their subjects, and use them as medium force, that support heavy cavalry on the battlefield. During the constant wars, the spearmen become almost professional soldiers.

(these are the analogues of European sergeants)

KHMLOSANNI
Though the most important part of Georgian armies is cavalry, still infantry is necessary on the battlefield. Those subjects of the nobles, that can afford sword, become khmlosanni (swordsmen) and serve to their lords as a subsidiary force in their armies.

PKHOVI CAVALRY
Pkhovi is the highland part of Eastern Georgia. People living there are famous for their ferocity and braveness in battle. Unlike the lowland peasants, they are free from overlordship of feudals and are ruled by their own elders and chiefs. Neverthless, they acknowledge the King as they sovereign and are ready to support him on battlefield. Their horses are quick and their sudden attacks disorganise enemy soldiers.

SHUBOSANI MKHEDREBI
These soldiers have no money for heavy equipment like nobles, but spear is affordable for them, and those, who are more well-to-do are able to get a horse too. Their attacks are not so devastating as the noble cavalrymen's but still are dangerous for enemy troops that are not heavy enough.

KIVCHAGS
It was difficult to defend small country from hordes of invading muslims. So in the beginnig of the 12th century, King David IV invited 40 000 families of the nomad Kipchags (Kumans) from the northern steppes. They were given land, christianized, rearmed and became a perfect regular force for the King. They remained such for about a century.