What to do with AUM

For the first time ever I've kept a game going long enough to actually get some SAP. Now I had always read here that these were some serious infantry.

This coincided with the big orange empire deciding to pick a fight with me. Whenever this has happened in the past I have always found AUM to be pretty much indestructable, but now, surely, I would be the master, right?

Wrong. Admittedly I was giving away three command stars to the Almo general (they seem to have about 200 6 star generals) but it was the same story as before. Even with AUM pinned in front of one unit of SAP, and charged in the rear by another, they took an awfully long time to die. (Die they did, but not before wiping out an entire unit of pikes)

Whats going on here? Are they the best infantry unit or what? I am playing as the Russians so I don't even have much decent cav to run them down with though a boyar sandwich would probably give them pause for thought.

i think AUM are some of the most cost effective units out there for one

AUMs are pretty much unbeatable in Early and even into High. Swabian Swordsmen are about the only unit that can beat them, and only the HRE has access to that unit.

Forgive the ignorance, but I've been wondering for a month now what AUM is?

. Anti-Unit Machines
. Angry Urban Mohawks

edit: wait!!!!

Almohad Urban Militia?

duh, sorry.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

For the first time ever I've kept a game going long enough to actually get some SAP. Now I had always read here that these were some serious infantry.

This coincided with the big orange empire deciding to pick a fight with me. Whenever this has happened in the past I have always found AUM to be pretty much indestructable, but now, surely, I would be the master, right?

Wrong. Admittedly I was giving away three command stars to the Almo general (they seem to have about 200 6 star generals) but it was the same story as before. Even with AUM pinned in front of one unit of SAP, and charged in the rear by another, they took an awfully long time to die. (Die they did, but not before wiping out an entire unit of pikes)

Whats going on here? Are they the best infantry unit or what? I am playing as the Russians so I don't even have much decent cav to run them down with though a boyar sandwich would probably give them pause for thought.

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No, vanilla AUMs are mostly harmless to SAP (note the two qualifiers, vanilla and mostly). Stats on AUMs from FBE's guide.

"Almohad urban militia.
Charge 3 Attack 3 Defence 3 Armour 4 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 2 Cost 200 Support cost 37

Almohad urban militia are very similar to the Catholic feudal men at arms. They have a shield and a sword, just like the men at arms and they have the same number of men in each unit (80). As far as use goes they should be used like men at arms; put them in two ranks and on engage at will before marching them at some spears or other infantry and letting them charge into battle. Almohad urban militia don’t really need to flank so you can use them to hold a good front line against infantry attacks. You should always endeavour to keep them far away from cavalry or they will die very quickly. If you have no choice but to fight cavalry with this unit put them in three or four ranks, try to find some trees to put the cavalry at a disadvantage and mob the cavalry with as many units as possible. This is an extremely solid unit and is a steal for its price. The militia’s shield only has a 0.5 modifer."

They are slightly weaker than CMAAs. However, valour and wep/arm upgrades would make it different case. Take a look at how many little flags the unit is flying. Chances are, they do have wep upgrades from the iberian provinces.

Like all swordsmen, AUM are only truly weak against cavalry. Remember, swordsmen easily defeat spearmen, and can also have some success against pikemen (although with equal valor/upgrades, SAP should still easily defeat any sword unit in the game). Differences in valor, weapons, and armor can upset this balance. As the Almohads, I fought the Swiss once, and noted that AUM can do alright against SAP, as long as I support them and use flanking attacks against the enemy.

Thus, use the best cavalry you have. Try polearms as well; as long as you don't let them get flanked or isolated, even halberdiers should do well against AUM. Reserve your pikemen for more worthy tasks, like destroying cavalry, and keep them away from armor-piercing missiles.

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Almohad urban militia are very similar to the Catholic feudal men at arms.

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I've read this in a few places but speaking from my own experience its not really true, they are way, way better. I don't think I have EVER taken out AUM without sticking two units at least onto them. Sometimes more. I guess a lot of them come either with the v1 from Grenada or with weapon upgrades from elsewhere in spain. They don't exactly rout easily either.

maybe its the upgrades but they are better than CMAA IMHO

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Originally Posted by English assassin

I've read this in a few places but speaking from my own experience its not really true, they are way, way better. I don't think I have EVER taken out AUM without sticking two units at least onto them. Sometimes more. I guess a lot of them come either with the v1 from Grenada or with weapon upgrades from elsewhere in spain. They don't exactly rout easily either.

maybe its the upgrades but they are better than CMAA IMHO

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What happens when you send cavalry against them? Even boyars should do OK in single combat against them, although I've never tried this. I don't know if the Russians have anything heavier than boyars, but if they do, use it.

You should try playing as the Almohads; you'll quickly find out that AUM are not the elite killing machines they become when the AI uses them. They do have decent morale, and if you're playing on expert, the AI gets such a big morale bonus that their troops are super-tough to rout. When playing as the Almohads, though, you'll quickly find out that their army is not that strong; AUM are really their only strength. They are rather weak against cavalry (Nubians and Muwahids are not good spears), they have no good heavy cavalry of their own (Ghulam cavalry are quite fragile), and they have no elite killers like JHI, SAP, VG, or elite knights. They have no polearms and are weak against armor; the only effective anti-armor tactic I've found is to pin an armored unit with something while pelting it with javelins.

I'm guessing the only thing making them hard for you to beat is the valor bonuses they are getting from their generals. In an even fight, the Almohads are at a disadvantage.

as Russians:

a) you got good generals to match them. russians start with a 5* or 6* king and each generation shoudl get better.

b) Druzhina are 60 men cav available with horse breeder and armorer.

dismount em and you get FFK which should match even v1 AUMs in melee but have 4 higher morale matching the expert level AI advantage in that area so they break at the same time.

c) heavy cav like boyars can definitely dominate them using arrows or charging

d) combination of arbalests and javs with some help from mtd. x-bows or HAs in hit and run should distract those AUMs and get them shot up. once they are tired and decimated, they are easy kills.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

Even with AUM pinned in front of one unit of SAP, and charged in the rear by another, they took an awfully long time to die.

Whats going on here?

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AUMs are one of the best early era infantry units, and the high valor gens make them pretty tough.

With the Boyars you should be able to shoot the AUM up before engaging, run 'em around a little bit to wea them out.

I see people get SAP crazy and build / use too many SAP units in an army, both in MP and SP. In my armies SAPs replace the spears/Chiv Sarg/OFS but I rarely have more than 3 or 4 units of spears in any one stack.

The problem is that SAPs, like all spear units, have a relatively low att factor, so pinning and flanking with SAPs isn't nearly as effective as pinning with SAPs and flanking/charging into the rear with Boyars or Vikings or even better, Druzhina Cav.

ichi

Yeah, I've found AUM very annoying to fight against, especially if they all just rush your line of battle.
Like katank said, use a lot of arbalests and mounted archers/x-bows and finish them off with Boyars.
I'm also playing a Russian campaign at the moment (high, expert) and I have to say the Russians get a simple, but very efficient roster. I tend to use a lot of halberdiers even against enemy swords. If you keep them supported, they usually get the job done. FFK (druzhina) should be able to hold their own against any sword units. Russians start with a high-command prince, and if you beat the Mongols, you should end up with a high-influence prince, a lot of high valour units and generals with more stars on their chest than the veterans of Stalingrad.

On another note, I don't understand why everybody whines about Lithuanian Cavalry. I've used them quite a lot, and IMHO they are an excellent medium cavalry unit, capable of slugging it out for a while and quickly chasing routers.

Marquis

Hmmm, when reading all these (interesting) posts, I'm starting to feel that I am using my AUMs horribly wrong in my Almo campaign. I had a feeling that (now that I'm in the high period) they were becoming pretty much useless (but kept them because I didn't find a good replacement for them).
Grrr, feel a bit silly on tactics now.

~:lightbulb: I should relaunch Almo campaign before I get stuck on RTW...

(thanks for the tips guys)

Russians get Vikings. They'll still die, but will do some damage and cost even less than AUM. I'd suggest getting the valor bonus from Norway then upgrade them in Sweden, an iron province, for weapons.

AUM are a great unit, definitely one of my favorites. They're showing their age by the middle of the high period but by then they've built up lots of valor and are getting a valor bonus in Grenada and, for the human player, weapons upgrades in the iron provinces of Spain.

Another option is Steppe Heavy Cavalry. People think of them as horse archers but their melee stats are very good. Almohads tend to have lots of Desert Archers, a very good anti-HA unit, but Steppe Heavies are a tougher target for archers than most. So, you might get to fire off enough arrows before charging to seriously cut down the AUM's.

AUMs are still very powerful even late into the game due to the valor bonus which keeps them on the level of CMAA and plentiful Iron in Iberia.

the rest of the almo roster is also good.

the murabitin inf in particular is very effective jav which can also melee and works as pursuit inf.

I usually get Cyrenacia to produce v2 Saharan cav and upgrade them instead of using ghulam cav.

sure, you don't have as much of a punch when charging but you get higher attack and can pursue better.

DAs are also good but lose its appeal a bit when compared with arbs for raw killing power.

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Originally Posted by Marquis de Said

On another note, I don't understand why everybody whines about Lithuanian Cavalry. I've used them quite a lot, and IMHO they are an excellent medium cavalry unit, capable of slugging it out for a while and quickly chasing routers.

Marquis

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The problem I have with LithCav is their build requirements are way too steep. Take the exact same buildings and you can build +1V Mounted Sgts (from master horse) who equal or exceed LC stats in every category and they're cheaper to boot. They're not even fast cav, 9/20/22 is standard cav speed.

just use buffed steppe cav and they are faster for pursuit and helluva lot cheaper.

if using heavy normal horse unit, just buy some steppe heavies who can shoot also and have better melee as well as lower reqs.

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Originally Posted by Doug-Thompson

Russians get Vikings.

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They do? I have never been able to build vikings as Russia ~:confused: Which provinces get them? This makes Russia a specacular faction!

Aren't the Vikings just in "early" and the Russians just in "high" and "late" ~;) ?

IIRC they are buildable in Finland and Novgorod, but has been a long time since my last Niv. game...


Cheers

OA

One tactic that I think most people have overlooked here is the "pump your enemy so full of mayonnaise that he finds it hard to move" or the terrifying "feed him prunes for 24 hours and tell him the nearest toilet is 2 hours away at full gallop".

Very effective I think you will all agree.

As for actually fighting them on the battlefield, I have never ever had a problem with AUM, they really aren't that much trouble. People rave about them but all you have to do is charge them in the rear and bobs your uncle, even dodgy cavalry like the hobilars is very effective. And as Russia you have Boyars! Just run straight at them and watch them cower in their little space boots. However, the single most effective thing that I have found against AUMs are units of Jinettes. They are awesome, chuck a few javelins (micromanaged with out skirmish) and then do a lot of flanking. I remember playing a game as Spain and a lot of Jinettes, I just couldn't stop winning, I crushed the Almos is startling numbers taking thousands of people prisoner just by doing successful flank attacks. Do the "Horns of the Buffalo" that the Zulus made famous and all will be well:

xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx < enemy


oooooooooo < you

----------------------------------------------------
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx enemy advancing


oo oo
oo oo you pseudo retreating
oo oo (this is odd, it wont let me make a V shape: just imagine it looks like a V)
ooo


and then you have most of their flanks, even if you don't a mainly cavalry army can outrun most things until backup arrives. This works awesomely with Boyars as they have bows and not Javelins for a longer range. Shoot the general or weakly armoured units for maximum effect and don't bother with the AUMs, just drag them off somewhere out of the battle and then kill them all at the end.

If you can't do it now, I don't know that you will be able too.

By the way, if you have SAP, why don't you use the halberds? The Swiss ones that are hard as nails and chew through armour like a rust mite in an iron mongers shop?

a little modding or -ian switch will let you play novgorod in early.

viks require only a fort and are available anywhere.

so get out and vik spam! waves of woodsmen and vikings can cost effectively knock out even Byz jedi led armies!

bleed your opposition to death using such spamming.

jinettes are ideal counters to AUMs. speedy and javs go through armor like butter.

Russians and catholics all get jinettes.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

For the first time ever I've kept a game going long enough to actually get some SAP. Now I had always read here that these were some serious infantry.

This coincided with the big orange empire deciding to pick a fight with me. Whenever this has happened in the past I have always found AUM to be pretty much indestructable, but now, surely, I would be the master, right?

Wrong. Admittedly I was giving away three command stars to the Almo general (they seem to have about 200 6 star generals) but it was the same story as before. Even with AUM pinned in front of one unit of SAP, and charged in the rear by another, they took an awfully long time to die. (Die they did, but not before wiping out an entire unit of pikes)

Whats going on here? Are they the best infantry unit or what? I am playing as the Russians so I don't even have much decent cav to run them down with though a boyar sandwich would probably give them pause for thought.

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Aah... My friend, you must remember the 3 iron laws of battle.

1. Melee infantry beats spears.
2. Spears beat cavalry.
3. Cavalry beat melee infantry.

I don't understand how AUMs are so good anyways though, they are militia after all, normal UMs are quite rubbish. They are way way way too cost effective, though, whoever pointed that out was right.

they may be militia class but their stats are FMAA stats for vanilla ones and from granada, they are better than CMAA!

they are extremely strong and under a good general can be next to invincible.

I don't agree with the simplicity of the cav beats sword business. the question is how to cost effectively beat em.

if the AUMs are parked in a forest, you can do nothing with your heavy cav other than getting slaughtered.

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Originally Posted by Sir Chauncy

One tactic that I think most people have overlooked here is the "pump your enemy so full of mayonnaise that he finds it hard to move" or the terrifying "feed him prunes for 24 hours and tell him the nearest toilet is 2 hours away at full gallop".

Very effective I think you will all agree.

As for actually fighting them on the battlefield, I have never ever had a problem with AUM, they really aren't that much trouble. People rave about them but all you have to do is charge them in the rear and bobs your uncle

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But whatever you do, dont pump them full of mayonnaise, feed them prunes for 24 hours AND THEN charge them from the rear. ~:dizzy: ~:eek:

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Originally Posted by katank

they may be militia class but their stats are FMAA stats for vanilla ones and from granada, they are better than CMAA!

they are extremely strong and under a good general can be next to invincible.

I don't agree with the simplicity of the cav beats sword business. the question is how to cost effectively beat em.

if the AUMs are parked in a forest, you can do nothing with your heavy cav other than getting slaughtered.

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I think that if you make comparisons of vanilla troops I think the model works to a degree. However, I also agree that the situation is often far more complex and many variables come in to play; for example, the geography and terrain of the battle site, the weather and the general's stats. But it's stil a useful guide IMHO

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Originally Posted by Fragony

They do? I have never been able to build vikings as Russia ~:confused: Which provinces get them? This makes Russia a specacular faction!

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Re: Russians and Vikings.

Don't pay any attention to me. I've gone senile.

No, they don't. Sorry for the confusion.

whatchya talking about? Danes and Novgorod get viks in early with a fort.

doug, I hope you aren't going on technicalities of Russia not being Novgorod. they are the same faction.

Danes get Vikings all the way through the game, not just in early, and the original post was about Russians.

Those who think the AUMs aren't that good aren't using them properly ~:)

Despite what others say, the rest of the Almohad roster is weak, especially once you get out of early, and the lack of a decent spear unit is a real weakness.

In the Almohad PBEM, during the reign of one Caliph, I managed to conquer Italy, The Papacy (twice), France, England and the HRE, using an army that was approx 50% AUM. The only units that put up a decent fight were Order Foot and Swabian Swordsmen (who chopped them to pieces). And for a sword unit, they can put up a decent stand against cavalry too, certainly long enough to try and get help there.

hmm, novgorod get viks. I'm dead sure of that.

ok, Russians don't. Now I stand corrected.

thanks, doug.

You know, fighting against the Almo's, I've never had any real difficulty with their AUMs. There were a couple of pesky situations, but the only real difficulty I've had is with hordes of Berber camels and Saharan Cavalry. I tend to be an infantry heavy player, and my inability to close with the camels, either with foot or with the few cavalry I use, annoys me. I end up wasting my arrows on them, while that fast Saharan cav just flanks me.

I know the 'solution' is to fight on a hill or in the woods, but that's only 100% viable advice if one is defending, the attacker has to go to the enemy. I find offensives into Almohad territory to be frustrating unless I can use bribery and take advantage of a civil war.

All of that said, playing as the Almohads, I find the AUMs to be excellent troops, provided they stay out of the desert. Spanish Jinettes are the bane of their existence, of course, but I find Berber's to be more than a match for Jinettes in equal numbers. Of course, the Egyptians and the Spanish seem to be the two powers that can truly stand against the Almo's in the Early era, and they just happen to be the two major powers on the Almo's borders. It's always harrowing, waiting to see if I can manage a breakout, or if bad misfortune will o'ercome me.

Back on topic, what I mean to say is that the AUM is an excellent unit, but I personally have never seen the AI use the unit appropriately to it's full potential, and consequently have never had too much difficulty dispatching them. Shoot them full of arrows on their approach, stop them with a group or two of militia sergeants and then flank with whatever you have to hand. Simultaneously, focus any remaining firepower against some of the easily routed units in the Almo line up (plenty to choose from), as soon as they start to run, your outnumbered and flanked AUMs will turn tail.

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Shoot them full of arrows on their approach, stop them with a group or two of militia sergeants and then flank with whatever you have to hand. Simultaneously, focus any remaining firepower against some of the easily routed units in the Almo line up (plenty to choose from), as soon as they start to run, your outnumbered and flanked AUMs will turn tail.

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I agree with that, but it kind of illustrates the point: shoot them up, hit them with two units, flank them, make another unit rout, and then you might break them. :-)

I haven't fought an almo campaign yet, I find their skirmishing style infantry is pretty effective when the AI has it but I suspect its a pain in the backside for a human to micromanage. Sadly my PC is too ancient to support RTW so until i upgrade thetre will be plenty of time to experiment...

AI manages skirmisher units well? are you kidding? they run away instead of properly discharging their javs and will often dance in range of your archers instead of charging in melee like they are supposed to.

jinettes can easily outrun berbers and the AI will always eventually give you an opening to shower the AUMs with some deadly javs.

Almos are great in the hands of a human player as AUMs, DAs, and Murabitins can take most anything in early. throw in a few nubians for fighting the cav and you are set.

Eggy can't really compete with Almos. A flood of AUMs can cut down their initial lineup before getting tired and also Nubians backing up mountains of DAs will make pincushions of the Eggy camel and peasant hordes.

Hitting the Spanish fast is essential before they crank out more jinettes which are serious trouble for your AUMs

Is AUM really so great? I've used them several times, and they were ground to paste by italian infantry and other spearmen. ~:confused:

I've found that Arab Infantry perform much better, but maybe its just me.

what are you talking about? what version are you playing?

AUMs have 3/3/3
Arab inf have 2/4/-2

these are charge/attack/defense

the arab inf would just die like flies in frontal assault. both have small shield but this doesn't change relative comparison.

against Italian Light, AUMs should be put into 1.5-2 ranks. in order to not be flanked by wrap around, they need to deploy in fewer ranks and wouldn't get sufficient rank support, giving the AUMs the victory.

even if the Italian light was in shield wall and can't be flanked, the AUMs will be enough to make it a phyrrhic victory for the Itlaian Light and can beat them cost effectively.

they do far better than arab inf which just die like flies against a defensive beast like Italian inf as if the first charge doesn't break em, the arab inf is screwed, having negative defense.

@Katank

Of course the Jinettes can outrun the Berbers, but the Berbers can shoot the Jinettes up, and the Jinettes are not able to compete in hand to hand combat. This renders the Jinettes irrelevent on the battlefield. While the Berbers keep the Jinettes away from the main engagement, the remainder of the armies can duke it out. Without the Jinettes, the Spanish don't stand a chance. Once the main engagement is over, the Jinettes will usually withdraw, if they haven't already run because of loses sustained from the Berber's arrow fire.

A counter to a unit need not necessarily be effective at destroying that unit, so long as it is capable of forcing that unit to irrelevence.

Italian Infantry require a castle to build. AUMs require a only a keep.

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I haven't fought an almo campaign yet, I find their skirmishing style infantry is pretty effective when the AI has it but I suspect its a pain in the backside for a human to micromanage.

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One of the unfortunate losses when this website changed was the loss of a "how-to" thread on using javelins.

Any pain in the backside is more than compensated for by the sheer delight of watching a whole unit of royal knights die.

Murabitins are ther best javelin troops in the game -- by a long shot, except for a few mercenary units.

Here's the drill:

1. Take them off skirmish mode. It doesn't work. The AI will usually back you up out of effective javelin range before your guys have a chance to throw.

2. Drag them out in a line that's two deep.

3. The simplest method is to put them behind a melee unit that's only two men deep. This greatly shortens the throw. Putting them behind a spear unit, for instance, that's four ranks deep is not as good. You'll probably kill some of your own guys, too.

4. Get them a height advantage if at all possible.

5. Get them as close to the target as humanly possible, then throw.

6. When and if they run out of javelins, or if the opposing unit is an infantry unit that routs, order a melee charge. Murabitins have a decent melee attack and are fast, making them a good reinforcement unit and a superb rout-chaser. Battles against well-managed Almohads tend to produce lots of enemy casulaties, then lots of prisoners if there are any survivors.

As you gain skill and confidence, you'll learn how to use your Murabitins to flank and attack from the rear, and to ambush. For instance, one of my favorite Almohad tactics is to rout an enemy infantry unit and have the Murabitins pursue -- but not too far. Have them break off the pursuit when they have made their way through the enemy line and then have them attack some other unit from the rear.

McGowan, ever tried to not play like the AI and actually stay out of range of the bow? it's not so hard.

I've made pursuing berbers run straight into a protected archer battery mutiple times and they are quickly neutralized.

a few feints also frequently leave the berber on one end of their line with my jinettes on the other, wreacking havoc on their AUMs.

Of course I stay out of the range of the bow when I'M using Jinettes. I was talking about how to use Berbers against Jinettes when playing against the AI. What part of this concept was so difficult to understand? ~;)

If I have to fight against berber camels I, in order of preference a) shoot them with archers b) try to entice them into becoming shishkabob on my spears or c) just charge with my cavalry since the computer fights with skirmish mode on and despite being camels they can't survive being plowed into from the rear while disorganised.

well, if I was playing almos, I'd forgo the berbers.

the DAs can do a good job of turning jinettes into pincushions and the AI never tries to close in melee. if they do close, they die on nubian spear tips or get slashed to bit by AUMs.

Granted Desert Archers are good, but I don't necessarily build the most efficient armies. I prefer to play a game with the flavour of the times and the factions, and since the Almo's get Berber Camels, and a valour increase for them to-boot, then of course I'm going to have a few units sitting around in my armies. Just my style I guess.

true.

I build a few but early on I use DAs and frequently just use those as well as abusing the starting berber but not many berbers after that since they aren't that cost effective for me in most cases.

Agreed. Once the Spanish are gone, you won't find a Berber of mine in Europe. I do keep them on for desert service in North Africa and the Middle East, though once I take Egypt their numbers begin to be thinned by Bedouin replacements.

But the Spanish are gone after about turn 4-5 in my game and I don't get a chance for bowshop so the starting berber's all I ever see unless on crazy sim mode in which I must "preserve faction flavor" by adding em.

1. Shoot the AUM a bit with archers (to soften them up).
2. Charge with strong Spear Units (Saracen Inf./Armored Spearmen/Feudal Sergents etc.)
3. Charge immediately with strong horse on wedge (straight their back). They rout pretty fast.

They are pretty powerful when you use them yourselves. Just be careful when you bring them across the deserts vs. the Egyptians. You must be quick or they will bake in the sun. They can't take too much Camel charges so must bring enough.

My army got routed because I didn't bring enough. The Egyptian had a ton of Camels. Needless to say my archers were toast without enough protection.
I could have easily won if I was able to hold the line because my archers were shooting down the camels. But one AUM flank broke under tremendous pressure.
Half of my archers routed as well.

Even with successful rally, I couldn't keep up because of reinforcement of the enemy. :surrender:

:knight: