Captain to General

I was running low on family members so I decided to give Captain Tiberius a chance to prove himself worthy of adoption.

He won 4 victories in two years. Two of which were Heroic victories and two of which were clear victories that should have been heroic.

He was still not promoted! What does it take? :furious3:

p.s. I thought I was p!ssed about that, but until he was bribed along with 19 other high valor units, I didn't know the meaning of the word p!ssed. Especially since Gaul was down to two provinces and had been constantly throwing themselves on my armies in vain, they shoulnd't have had NEARLY enough money to bribe that army. If he would have gotten the promtion he deserved it may not have happened. :furious3:

I think to be promoted the captain has to get a vice/virtue.

Try using him in combat

Even the comps diplomats know how to make them money. Although I always wonder who the donater is to this dying faction. The money does'nt come out of nowhere either as I have been bribing off armies of Egyptians left and right so they ca'nt take the last selucid city. Just making sure the powers stay in check. Even afer 20 years of keeping them safe I look at there financial rating and it appears they are in debt are just a slight hair away from it

It seems kind of random. You certainly get better odds by using a captain in battle, but just last night I had a captain adopted who didn't do anything. No battles or anything, he just suddenly became worthy. I'm not complaining though, because I recently lost two of my best guys to the plague and I am desperately in need of some males in the family.

I didend know that was even possible, i thought it was just a random event.

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Originally Posted by Jeanne d'arc

I didend know that was even possible, i thought it was just a random event.

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It's not (entirely) random. Try having a captain win a significant battle by a significant margin, and you should be offered the chance to adopt him into the family.

^"Man of the Hour"

The best part is that these guys seem to get promoted on the field, meaning they don't get sent back to the capitol. It is the "instant" part vs. "end turn."

Quote ^"Man of the Hour" End Quote

I had this happen on several occassions,most noteably when a captain on his way through the desert to reinforce my attacks on Memphis and Thebes got surrounded 3 huge Egyptian armies i didnt know were out there.Amazingly he won that battle with losses of about 400 men to the Eggys' 3000 or so and i got a new heir who didnt get shipped back to the capital.

Just a question. Has anyone refused adoption and then checked out the captain in question afterwards?Is he now a general...is he gone...is he still a captain with command rating?

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Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

It's not (entirely) random. Try having a captain win a significant battle by a significant margin, and you should be offered the chance to adopt him into the family.

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So what are the odds of a captain being promoted to general after winning two clear victories and two heroic victories in 4 turns???




p.s. Captain Fishpants you sure seem to make a lot of posts here...at least for a dev. I'm sure we all appreciate dev feedback. I therefore vote you be promoted to General Fishpants! ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by Spartiate

Just a question. Has anyone refused adoption and then checked out the captain in question afterwards?

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Er, no! ~;) I have enough trouble getting decent generals without refusing extra ones that turn up unexpectedly. ~D

*Ringo*

I managed to get a man-of-the hour once with a tiny little battle. There was one unit of brigand peasants running about the strategy map. I sent two units of wardogs. No losses, and I got a general out of it. I suppose it was three to one, sort of.

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Originally Posted by Spartiate

Just a question. Has anyone refused adoption and then checked out the captain in question afterwards?Is he now a general...is he gone...is he still a captain with command rating?

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I frequently refuse adoption in the hope to get a better one. Happens from time to time. However, if you refuse, the opportunity is gone. You won't have a captain with command ratings. In fact you won't even find the character as he has no name.

R'as

If he dies in the battle you can adopt him, but another messge will pop up saying that unfortunatly this man is already dead.

Number play big role because the one captain i had promoted belonged to a gladiator unit (smaller numbers here, like wardogs).

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Originally Posted by Chimpyang

If he dies in the battle you can adopt him, but another messge will pop up saying that unfortunatly this man is already dead.

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Yup, I've had that error. Dumbest thing ever.

Can non-roman factions get captains promoted, I use captains alot in my Greek campaign but I have not got anyone promoted. :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by CaoCao

Can non-roman factions get captains promoted, I use captains alot in my Greek campaign but I have not got anyone promoted. :dizzy2:

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Definately... I have had adoptions in both my Germanian and Egyptain campaigns...

Captains do have names. And the only time one has been adopted was in my first egyptian campaign.

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Originally Posted by R'as al Ghul

I frequently refuse adoption in the hope to get a better one. Happens from time to time. However, if you refuse, the opportunity is gone. You won't have a captain with command ratings. In fact you won't even find the character as he has no name.

R'as

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AFAIK there are 2 kinds of adoption: husbands and captains after battle. I also tend to refuse wannabe husbands (complete idiots, I wonder about these Roman girls...), but always promote/adopt captains after battles, they seem to have good v&v. It happens rarely, though.

I would really like some more insight on this.

Thank you Fishpants for posting!

"It's not (entirely) random. Try having a captain win a significant battle by a significant margin, and you should be offered the chance to adopt him into the family."

The only captain I have ever had promoted to general was one guy, with a unit of equites, running down a unit of rebel velites.

Meanwhile, my captains who have won maybe a dozen battles fighting massive gallic stacks, leaving crossed swords battles on the map even, have not been adopted.

Of course, my *regular* family is busily not producing any children ever. I've had males with the 'prolific' and 'fruitful' traits marry early and then their whole lives never have one child.

Is there any indication that you can eventaully get a captain to be a general just by extreme experience? like, you have one specific captain fight and win 20 battles and then he becomes a general?

This would really help the AI I'm thinking, since they usually almost never have general led armies.

Well I think winning great battles in a heroic way doesn't suffice to get a new family member... Because I do that rather frequently and nothing happens.
But I have stumbled upon a strange thing with the AI. I tried to kill all Egyptian family members using assassins (it should be possible) but they simply keep adopting captains on the field. In an extreme case I killed a general off from leading an army, one turn later they had gotten another one from that army whom I had put to death, too, but: once again, one turn later they got another general there!
It seems to me that the chances of a general getting available to adopt him increase drastically if you only have a few (say, 2) family members alive, making my attempt to destroy the faction as good as hopeless.
Maybe our beloved dev might say something about that :) (hopey)

I had a few units of Persian cavalry attacked by a few units of Nubian spearmen and some Egyption Chariots. Got the option to adopt the captain after I won that. And he eventually ended up as the faction leader too ~D

I can't see why anyone would want to refuse to adopt a captain when they have the option. You don't have anything to lose, and a (usually pretty good) family member to gain. Unlike marriages, when you often get 50 year old useless wanna be family members trying to marry your daughter.

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Originally Posted by Ulstan

Of course, my *regular* family is busily not producing any children ever. I've had males with the 'prolific' and 'fruitful' traits marry early and then their whole lives never have one child.

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I have noticed this too. Most interesting was when my "sterile" family member had 5 kids, and my "prolific" one had only 1! I'm thinking there's something up with these traits.

Well, can we get those family chicks go for more dates and get a few generals that way ... ~;)

I had one guy go from Captain to General 3 stars! (Julii) , I kind of like the small battles so I often send velites and dogs only to deal with brigands, this was that type of battle.

The captains then always get involved and I think this is what is most important in promotion rather than just a heroic victory.

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It seems kind of random. You certainly get better odds by using a captain in battle, but just last night I had a captain adopted who didn't do anything. No battles or anything, he just suddenly became worthy. I'm not complaining though, because I recently lost two of my best guys to the plague and I am desperately in need of some males in the family.

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Captains can be promoted even if they didn't exist - if your general dies and it is an heroic victory, the newly promoted captain can be further promoted to a general!

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Originally Posted by *Ringo*

Er, no! ~;) I have enough trouble getting decent generals without refusing extra ones that turn up unexpectedly. ~D

*Ringo*

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Ah, but any general can be improved by sending him out to do stuff! :charge:

I've often taken men who look like total duffers and made sure they get the chance to crush a few bandits, rebellious poltroons and the like, or made them town governors for a few years. A couple of transferred retainers to offer the right word of advice can make all the difference too.

With a bit of luck and a following wind (as it were) a good general will result with this kind of personnel management.

The retainers are interesting. Must be some kind of superior way to manage them. Haven't figured out how to transfer them long distances though.... Without moving around the generals that is..... ~;)

A little off topic... I have been cultivating my faction heir (Julii game) for a while now... Born with Natural Born General (or somthing like that) he was just one of the numerous grandsons of the faction leader... But this trait meant that when you piled the young generals into an army he would be the one taking command.. 20 years of fighting the Gaul later, kicking them out of northern Italy and securing the borders with forts, and he is a Conquorer, a Ledgendary Commander (the Mighty) then Ledgendary Rome Hero (the Great) and finally Infantry Commander of Genius (the Infantryman!??!?). As he could not really achieve anymore on the battlefield and had picked up the bloodthirsty trait it was time to get him off the battlefield. By this time the orginal faction leader was dead and the first son had taken his place. My cultivated general was the most promising of the next generation so I made him the Heir, at the expense of his own father who had turned into a Dunkard while a Governer...

He is now governing a small city in the hopes of pickig up some management skills and a bit of influence..

I prize adoptions and husbands with influence and management skills most as command skills are pretty easy to pick up... Just place the general in battles you know you will win at first and then much harder fights and make sure he always does some fighting even if it is charging down the last un-routed enemy units... Winning battles gets the Commander traits and personally killing enemy soldiers gets Hero traits (and the bloodthirsty ones too if you are not careful)...

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Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

I've often taken men who look like total duffers and made sure they get the chance to crush a few bandits, rebellious poltroons and the like, or made them town governors for a few years. A couple of transferred retainers to offer the right word of advice can make all the difference too.

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I totally agree Captain FP, i never refuse generals, at worst they're demoted to wandering the land putting up watchtowers! ~D I do find it extremely annoying tho when you spend the time cultivating a brilliant general, from the age of 16, only to place them in a settlement for one turn then get a crap v&v!! :furious2: I had three generals all get the same bad vice on the same turn last night. I would like to understand v&v better, as there was no explanation why this happened! I can't remember the exact vice but it was something to do with loving art/the good life and resulted in each general receiving a 20% reduction in bribe costs. Which was nice!

*Ringo*

I had a natural born general that was born lazy. So, I kicked him out of the palace and told him to do something with his life. He is still fighting non-stop, he is the faction leader now and he is even more lazy :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by *Ringo*

I would like to understand v&v better, as there was no explanation why this happened! I can't remember the exact vice but it was something to do with loving art/the good life and resulted in each general receiving a 20% reduction in bribe costs. Which was nice!

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Have a read through the export_descr_character_traits.txt file... List the order/scale in which you get VnVs and then all the triggers for the changes...

Ringo, if you have a large treasury your leaders can pick up vices such as those you've described. There is a 3% chance for each of 5 vices if your treasury is 50000 or greater, 100000 or greater and 150000 or greater. In addition there's an extra Roman-only trigger for a treasury of 50000 or greater, although that's only for one vice. Note that the game checks for each trigger, so if you're Roman with 150000 in the bank, each leader that ends his turn in a settlement has a chance of picking up upto 16 vices!

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Originally Posted by Sinner

so if you're Roman with 150000 in the bank, each leader that ends his turn in a settlement has a chance of picking up upto 16 vices!

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~D

Those guys really knew how to have a good time.... :charge: ~:cheers: :book: ~:cheers: :duel: ~:cheers: ~:grouphug: ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by Bob the Insane

Have a read through the export_descr_character_traits.txt file... List the order/scale in which you get VnVs and then all the triggers for the changes...

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Cheers Bob, i have read through it but some of the triggers are unclear. I guess i'm just waiting for someone to write a comprehensive list... otherwise i might have to do it myself, if i ever have enough time! ~:eek:

Thx for the useful info Sinner, spot on! In my current game i've just broke the 200,000 denarii mark! Does anyone else find it too easy to make money? I'm playing on hard/hard and after the initial cash flow problems my bank acc. is impossible to spend. I'm getting profits of around 15,000 per turn... if only it were real! ~D

*Ringo*

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Originally Posted by *Ringo*

I had three generals all get the same bad vice on the same turn last night. I would like to understand v&v better, as there was no explanation why this happened! I can't remember the exact vice but it was something to do with loving art/the good life and resulted in each general receiving a 20% reduction in bribe costs. Which was nice!

*Ringo*

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Well in MTW the influence of whole v&v system seemed much easier to understand. We had "Expert attacker" or defender, "Good Runner" and "Doubtful courage" and several others. It was clear how it would change a battle. Now there are so many characteristics plus retinues, many contradictory, that it starts to be more maths (adding and extracting influence and management points) than fun. Pretty soon after starting a campaign I quit efforts to understand how it affects the game. And as long as you win battle after battle, as long as your cash is piling up, it gets natural to ignore the v&v system in RTW.

I certainly think you can too many v&v's! Perhaps there should be a limit to the number a character can get, that would make it easier to keep track of. Like you say adding and subtracting characteristics is not too fun!

*Ringo*

Perhaps it is also influenced by the distance to the factionleader. At least in my Gaul campaign I always used to get a general when I fought a battle with a captain against the incoming Brutii near Arretium, where my leader was. I did this four times in a row, after that I had more than enough governors. But than again it might be that nobody escaped - Gaul cavalry rules against Roman infantry...

OA

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Originally Posted by Vlad Tzepes

Well in MTW the influence of whole v&v system seemed much easier to understand. We had "Expert attacker" or defender, "Good Runner" and "Doubtful courage" and several others. It was clear how it would change a battle. Now there are so many characteristics plus retinues, many contradictory, that it starts to be more maths (adding and extracting influence and management points) than fun. Pretty soon after starting a campaign I quit efforts to understand how it affects the game. And as long as you win battle after battle, as long as your cash is piling up, it gets natural to ignore the v&v system in RTW.

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I understand what you are saying... It was easy to determine what was what in MTW as there were less VnV (at least individual's appears to have less) and they had a big old effect... You really relied on your King having good stats and VnV's had a big effect on that. This features could very well still be in place in RTW but there are so many numbers floating about that it is hard to deterine...

Does the Influence of your faction leader effect diplomacy?? Or is it just the Influence of the Diplomat in question?? How does the influence of the person the diplomat contacts effect things and does the other faction leader's influence have any effect????

I imagine the features are still all there, but it can be hard to dig through the numbers..

I suppose I picked the worst example, diplomacy... As the effects of Command Stars and (too a lesser extent) Management ratings are pretty obviuos and straight forward... As is influence when keeping a city happy..

Having writen this it occurs to me that things are pretty cool and all these numbers just produce a greater variety and choice of characters in a game...

If you are interested you can follow the lives of your family member and place them where they are best suited, or you can just look at the stat numbers, the choice is yours...

Would still be nice to know if your faction leader's stats had any overall effect on things...

i've noticed that long term captain "governors" (from towns that you leave without family members for a long time) also turn up on the adoption list. unfortunately, they frequently are pretty old by the time they qualify.

on training the generals: playing as carthage, send anyone you want to train to sardinia. make sure, they meet scipii, julii hordes outnumbered and in no time you have a 10 star, 3 gold chevron (experience) generals with nice traits (like hero, legendary cavalry commander, victor, etc.) in no time... i did it for all youngsters who had spent a couple turns in an academy in carthage: next stop - sardinia! :)

All right, I now have *two* generals each with a heroic - crossed swords victory on the map.

In my opinion, you win one of these, you should automatically become a general. Aren't there only 10 of them on the entire game board?

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Originally Posted by CaoCao

Can non-roman factions get captains promoted, I use captains alot in my Greek campaign but I have not got anyone promoted. :dizzy2:

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I just had a promotion in a Greek campaign.

3 militia hoplites, 3 peasents

vs.

A pontus army mostly made up of Eastern infantry with some javelin throwers and a unit of heavy cav (general) (1300ish men)

They lost but retreated with all units intact and he got promoted. They killed a lot of guys before retreating (it was the point actually.. the group was just a defensive garrison.. and my main army was 2 turns away.. so I figured a delaying action was in order). I lost like 250, the computer lost about 550. Woohoo!

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Originally Posted by Ulstan

Aren't there only 10 of them on the entire game board?

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12

In one campaign I fought a few huge battles which I won well. Did I get a battle memorial? Did I hell! Later that same army under the same general came across a single unit of rebels. So my whole army attacks :charge: ~D
I use one unit of archers plus my generals cavalry to utterly destroy them, without loss.

After the battle I get a memorial :shrug:

Sometimes the logic seems very weird.

In my Julii campaign I just attacked a rebel army of one peasant unit with one War Dog unit of mine (for a laugh really)...

Battle was a strangly close run thing as the peasants managed to kill all the dog while only taking about 30% casualties and not routing...

I charged in the handlers and they routed the peasants and finished them off... (this is Medium battlemap difficulty by the way...)

Anyway the funny thing is I got to adopt the my Captain after that battle.... Not a bad step up in the world for a former dog handler, I have a mind to make him the faction heir.... ~D

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Originally Posted by Bob the Insane

In my Julii campaign I just attacked a rebel army of one peasant unit with one War Dog unit of mine (for a laugh really)...

Battle was a strangly close run thing as the peasants managed to kill all the dog while only taking about 30% casualties and not routing...

I charged in the handlers and they routed the peasants and finished them off... (this is Medium battlemap difficulty by the way...)

Anyway the funny thing is I got to adopt the my Captain after that battle.... Not a bad step up in the world for a former dog handler, I have a mind to make him the faction heir.... ~D

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Dog handler to General... biiiiiiiiiiiiig step up!

Half my generals are field promoted in my Selucian campaing since the royal family tends to get married but most avoid having children at all costs!!
As a fact i get better generals by promotion than by birth rights. That's why I rely on complete stacks of my forces to mere captains.

Played RTR 5.41 first a couple of weeks ago and I suddenly got loads of promoted captain and I have 4 extra generals to lead for large armies in 4 battlefornts. No city/town are without governors.

The something happend to my pc (my wife did it!) and I have to reformat the hd , reinstall windowns etc from the scratch (no back files or anything as it's just a gaming pc) then started playing new.

NOW all my armies are led by captain. I have so few general which I made governors in hoping they all produce offsprings. Even all the captain won greats battles no one wants to adopt them.

Too bad...

Now I got about 20 towns/cities and about 12 governors. When I check the family tree I see all little offsprings which will takes another 10-15 years to become 'man'.

By that time surely my old governors be gone..


p/s: anyway town watch makes good governor if left in cities for a few years...

My captains rarely command armies, because every major army always has 2 factioners in command. But once I sent a unit of 136 thracian mercenaries to fight 3 rebel peasant units, I won with 106 left and killed every single rebel. Lentulus Cossus became an adopted member of my family. Based on this and other experiences, it's necessary to win by a very large margin in order to be promoted, heroic victories notwithstanding. After, my Macedonian heroic victories usually involve one unit of levies getting decimated and another cut down to half strength. Heroic only in the sense that defeat was possible. But I actually, once, lost more men than the enemy. Must be a large margin. Also, factioners are proportionate to your territories. If you have too few territories, no matter how many victories your captain earns you, you will not get MOTHs. Not until you expand enough, then try out your captain again.

The Only Captain I ever got a chance to adopt was a captain in the first campaign I EVER played.

I was the Scipii, and I sent the Captain to win the siege of Athens, and he then defeated two Greek Armies.

I adopted him, and he was very worthy the rest of his life, he didn't get currupt like the rest of the family, or create unrest by entering a city.

He was a "bloodsoaked loony" by the end of his life though, since I sent him to take City after City and do nonstop battles untill he sacked Damascus, was sent to Cyprus and died on the way.

Playing as the Julii, I hated waiting for family members to be born and come of age so I frequently sent out captains to take new settlements. I got to the point where I had 20 settlements and 10 family members before more starting being born. In a few turns there were like 5 births, and two captains Man of the hour. I also happened to find a rebel army and bribed the general into joining the Julii family. It got more even after that but there were still times where I had too few family members and just used garrisons to keep order.

Ah young Padawans! You all seem to be overlooking the most obvious: the number of heirs that you have is linked directed to the number of provinces (cities) that you own. I think that you can have a number of generals is equal to the number of completely controlled provinces plus or minus 2 or 3.

As a result. It is entirely possible that you have Maxed Out the number of family members that you can have and the game simply refuses to spawn any more.

Think of it as a servere empire wide lack of... of... of something that rings true with the above statements and is really comical to end the post with.

*phew*

That was lucky, I don't think anyone noticed that you make a total cock up of that...

I played 2 full campaigns (to the ned, not just 50 provinces) and am now to the middle fo the third and I never, ever got a captain to be promoted, how is this possible?

Nevertheless I always have a good number of family members thanks to my hard-working diplomats off in Germania, Scythia, Spain and thanks to fellow Romans Julii and Brutii who's captains are obviously a lot more ambitous (every few turns they get new field-promoted generals, fine 20-year-olds, not very cheap, but worth the price, it's a good way to empty the overflowing treasury and cut down corruption). In my family tree every about fifth person is Roman and it's all swarming of Skunxas and Ugutzs.

Ugutz is a new name :-P It's precisely because you have so many factioners bribed over that it screwed up your settlement-factioner ratio, and therefore it becomes now impossible to promote a captain. Try to...stop...bribing factioners, and see if it works again. While I'm on your side--i.e. a mass briber of generals myself, but if you want a MOTH, it's incompatible with your *ahem* diplomatic *ahem* practices.

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Originally Posted by Sir Chauncy

Ah young Padawans! You all seem to be overlooking the most obvious: the number of heirs that you have is linked directed to the number of provinces (cities) that you own. I think that you can have a number of generals is equal to the number of completely controlled provinces plus or minus 2 or 3.

As a result. It is entirely possible that you have Maxed Out the number of family members that you can have and the game simply refuses to spawn any more.

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Yes that's pretty much true.

Related to this I play a test game with bruti when I didn't conquered any province for 100 years.

One of the thing I noticed is that generals rarely had any childern at all. Somtimes it happends that some generals died from old age before getting any childen.

Luckly usually, when one or two generals die, children start to get born, and marriage proposals become more common.

In the end, whatever you do the game makes sure you have just as much factioners as you need. I'll try bribing less in the next campaign just for the sake of seeing some men of the hour.

PS Ugutz is a redhead Spainard (?) curently in charge of Dimmidi. He likes a drink, but thanks to his couselors is an overall pretty fine governor.

Besides auto calc I have captains promoted a few times when fighting small units rebels. If not mistaken those battles as Romans against peasent rebels. Surely got 'heroic victory' maa...


Anyway since playing RTR I haven't got any sword cross icon after great battles anymore ? Has this feature been deleted from RTR ?

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Originally Posted by pezhetairoi

Also, factioners are proportionate to your territories. If you have too few territories, no matter how many victories your captain earns you, you will not get MOTHs. Not until you expand enough, then try out your captain again.

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That's what I have found. If you don't have a need for more, it generally will not give them to you. Probably so that you can't just spam the map with illegitimate generals.

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Originally Posted by M.T.Cicero

I'll try bribing less in the next campaign just for the sake of seeing some men of the hour.

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How much do those generally end up costing you? Over 50,000? I have a hard time getting enemy or rebel generals to go for the cash.

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Originally Posted by Gaius Magnus

How much do those generally end up costing you? Over 50,000? I have a hard time getting enemy or rebel generals to go for the cash.

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From Celt Centurion,

What I have noticed is that Faction leaders and Faction Heirs do not even have a "bribe" option. I imagine that their office makes them unbribeable.

That brings us to a second possibility, "how much money you have in your account. Say, you try to bribe a family member late in your turn, and you only have, perhaps, 5,100 Dinare. A lot, yes, but maybe not enough for him, and whoever is with him such as a spy or assassin. He will make some comment along the lines of "our friendship is not like cheap goods bought in the market, even for your gold. He just insulted you by subtley telling you that you are not rich enough for him. But, then you go and "take" a city, butcher everybody in it, and have about 30,000 dinare. Try to bribe him again, and you will usually find that his price is a little bit more than what you had earlier. Another possibility is that his "bribe" option will no longer exist.

Bribes are also a good way to get rid of an approaching enemy army when you are laying siege to one of their cities.

My favorite use of bribes is as a Roman faction bribing another Roman faction, and usually, the whole army comes over to your side.

A drawback to bribes is getting a "plague carrier." I have learned the hard way to check on each group I bring in to insure they are not carriers. You don't want to bring them into a city to retrain them if they are!

Instead, I prefer to use them to harass enemy armies. Sometimes, I just out and out discharge them to keep them from accidentally infecting another army or worse, a city.

I use bribes to weaken an enemy before going in with conventional invasion forces. Egypt is my favourite bribe target, because I hate their chariots full-stop. Romans bribing Romans are also an impressive exercise in money politics. I don't bribe enemies coming to relieve cities because I fight battles of annihilation, which means if they attack me, all the better. I am saved the trouble of an assault.

Bribing is a very useful tool, but I seriously doubt that any such usefulness will be possible in the 1.2 universe.

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Originally Posted by Celt Centurion

What I have noticed is that Faction leaders and Faction Heirs do not even have a "bribe" option. I imagine that their office makes them unbribeable.

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And what I notced that AI is dumb, as well as "cheating bastard", so it can try to bribe faction leaders and heirs. Of course, it is automatic failure, and your leader gets benefiots of improved loyalty (useless) and honesty (good) traits.

When we are at it, I think I saw AI diplomatics sometimes get into bribing frenzy, when tring to bribe something they have no money, and then again and again and again, just giving freeby trait bonuses to whatever governor is in the city.

believe it or not, Egypt is currently bankrupt in my Armenian game (I looked at the faction rankings) but it's still trying to bribe my diplomats. Like as if I don't have 5 more waiting to replace the one that's taking their economy apart anyway.

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Originally Posted by pezhetairoi

believe it or not, Egypt is currently bankrupt in my Armenian game (I looked at the faction rankings) but it's still trying to bribe my diplomats. Like as if I don't have 5 more waiting to replace the one that's taking their economy apart anyway.

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No offense intended, as I love skulduggery -- ahem -- diplomacy myself (as well as espionage and an occasional killing), but:

Do you even BOTHER to construct armies? Or has cash flow for politics supplanted the need for anything but town watch and garrison peasants!

Sun Tzu would be proud of you.

Despite what many believe about breeding generals and adopting and promoting all of it is fairly random. The AI will produce generals for you as you need them. If you lose a lot of generals or expand your territory quickly the AI will fill in the gap in leadership for you with adoption and promotion. You may notice that sometimes you cannot bribe a rebel army with a general. The reason is because you already have the maximum amount of generals allowed. Next time you use a captain as an offensive force keep a Diplomat with them and he will reduce the chance of your army being bribed. Works on cities as well.

i got a guy adopted into my family yesterday which had 4star comand rating and was only 25years old. think it was through a battle where i was outnumbered 1:3 (1k:3k) and he gained me a heroic victory. after that battle i was given a chance to adopt him where i duely complied. people say that when a captain is promoted to general he would remain with his army but i dont think its true as i've finished scipii, juilli, greek and egyptian campaigns(now on carthagians) and my generals adopted or married into the family all appeared in my capital. unless i've never gotten a captain promoted i think a promoted captain would still apear in the capital as a general.

HEEHEE Seamus, I can see why you threw that challenge at me. :-P Of COURSE i have armies. As Armenia now I have three fullstacks and three more half-stacks running about at Turn 60, and as Greeks I actually, at the height of activity, had 11 fullstack armies and 20 diplomats (mostly bribed) running around.

I'm not just a bribing machine, you know... I'm all for the Integrated Diplomacy approach... sure diplomats are fine for defensive frontier duty, but on attack you always need the arms cos that's the fundamental language of mankind. :) But as you may have read I take up your challenge.

Other Question:
for why a Captain when he was adopted he always is founding to many men of the hour?There are too many Captians to adopt, but they never figthed