-
How to Model New 3D Units
Modding Resource Header
Title: How to Model New 3D Units
Posted by: hoggy
Modding area: Units (appearance)
Required programmes: 3DS Max 5 or above, Vercingetorix's CAS extractor, Vercingetorix's X-Pak, an image editor capable of editing .DDS files (such as Photoshop or Paintshop Pro), Notepad (or other text editor)
Summary: Models are the physical shape of the soldiers (as opposed to the textures - also known as skins - which provide the colours). If the model is a chassis, then the skin is the paint-job. This is an introduction to making models. It requires some knowledge of modding the game and modelling. Like all modelling in Rome it requires 3ds max.
I’ve been asked for a guide to unit modelling in the thread on Blue Lotus. Although I can’t provide a tutorial on using max (it would be way too big) I’ll lay out the basic process I’ve used so far for creating units in case that helps.
1. Import an existing .CAS model preferably the highest poly version (ending in _400 or _highest) from Data\models_unit. (make sure you have Vercingetorix’s latest exporter). I find that working from an existing model gives you a good base which acts as a guideline for the skeleton shape, polycount etc. Save this scene as something else and remember to backup regularly.
2. Choose the rainbow shaped icon from the tabs at the top of the right hand panel then right click on the skin layer in the stack and hit ‘collapse all’ (see image below). This basically removes all vertex weighting from the model.
http://totalwar.org/images/Guides/AATutorial02.jpg
3. Select all the vertices in the model and hit ‘weld selected’ in the options on the right making sure the value is set to 0.00001 (approximately ~:) ) This makes the model into one continuous element rather that many different ones.
4. Now you are ready to edit the model as much as you require (remembering for the moment we are restricted to certain skeletons and animations). For the moment just concentrate on modelling not textures. Tips: make sure you keep your modelling clean ie no loose vertices or multiple vertices sitting on top of each other. Make sure when you mirror sections to check the polys are not inverted. Make sure you look at the way the original model is created – there is only one vertex weight per bone so that creates limitations ie. Enough polys around bone joints are required and where the legs join in the center there needs to be a clear poly for movement between the vertices.
5. Texturing. Most texturing will be done by applying a uv map by projection through one axis. Only one material/texture should be used on the model. Plan out what texturing you think you will need and how many different projections ie. You might need one for the face, one for the torso etc (the RTW textures again act as a good guide for layout). Because RTW requires each vertex to only have one set of uvs I use this method to apply textures: Select the polys on the model you wish to texture. From the options on the right click on ‘Detach’ and then tick on ‘detach to element’. Then UV map and adjust uvs to taste. Collapse the stack after every application.
http://totalwar.org/images/Guides/AATutorial03.jpg
6. When you have finished texturing each set of polys with their own uvs should be selectable in ‘element’ mode
7. Give the model a last check over, collapse the stack, check your weapons and other items are correctly linked and that the model lines up correctly with the joints of the skeleton etc.
8. Skinning. RTW has a one vertex per joint policy, which although a pain, makes skinning a doddle (note skinning is weighting the vertices to bones and has no connection with skinning in the modding sense) Select your model. In the drop down modifier list on the right go to ‘skin’. Click on the plus sign next to skin in the stack to show the envelope stack. Highlight this. In the right hand option panel click on the button ‘add’ above the empty white box. Select all the bones prefixed by ‘bone_’ (nothing else) these will then be skinned to you model and appear in the empty white box. Under the Edit Envelopes on the right tick ‘vertices’ and highlight bone_abs in the white box. Select all the vertices on your model (being careful not to touch the coloured envelopes) Below the white box with your bones in ‘Weight Properties’ tick ‘rigid’ and make the ‘Abs. Effect, 1.0. You have now weighted all the vertices in your model to the abdominal bone. Normally at this time it’s worth doing a test export and checking your model in game. It’ll be as stiff as a board but you should be able to tell if your texturing is correct. Then select one bone at a time in the white box, select the vertices you want associated with that bone and give them an Abs. Effect of 1.0 . when you’ve finished select bone_abs again to check you’ve not missed any vertices. Export again for a final test. (See image below for explanation of terms above)
http://totalwar.org/images/Guides/AATutorial04.jpg
I’ve probably missed a lot of stuff there and it may be that I do things differently from other people but I hope it might prove helpful. :bow:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
I really really appreciate this hoggy, I've been trying to find this out for ages.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
editted post to add illustrations
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
what prog do u use? 3ds max 7? ...
have u bought it (i had trial version but that expired...)?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
When i try to import the unit files for rome total war with the CAS importer, theres always the same error, it says
--Unknown property: "diffuseMap" in #Multi/Sub-Object:2 - Default(Standard:Material #1, Standard:2 - Default, Standard:Material #2)
Under the message window there a window with the maxscript thing were
else mat.diffuseMap=tm
is highlighted. :furious3:
I just wonder if anybody knows if this error has occured before, and if anybody knows a way to fix it. :bow:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
erm.. not sure what that is. Check you're importing into a clean scene ie one with nothing in it. Check you are not importing one of the .CAS files that says it's an older version. Check that you have the texture that is used on the unit unpacked... If it still doesn't work best to look here http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...p?showforum=35
to see if your question has been asked by someone else.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Oh, now i might know whats the problem, it says its an older version, well do you know how to get a newer version then?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
most of the .CAS files prefixed by 'unit_ ' are ok. If you are editting a specific unit look in data/descr_model_battle.txt to see which .CAS file your unit uses otherwise just pick one prefixed by 'unit_'
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Ok, thanks, i think it works now!! thanks for the help!!
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Hoggymaybe you could write quick tutorial on how to swap weapons and shields,I guess lot of people here would be grateful for that.Also how difficult would be to alter appearance of some unit's models ? I'm trying to get rid of cloaks and change head gear of cataphract.I have max5.1 but lack any experience (apart from failed attempts to edit Ghost Recon models in the past)
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Swapping Weapons and shields:
-1 import CAS with shield you want to keep. select shield and click on 'unlink selection' button (top left). Then File - Save Selected. Save the shield with whatever name you like.
-2 New scene. Import the model you want to take the new shield. Delete the existing shield from the model. File - merge, to merge in the shield you saved out in step 1. click on use scene's material. Go into schematic view and link the shield back to left hand (click 'link selection' button top left and drag the shield node onto the left hand node).
-3 export the CAS
-4 Edit the texture (cut and paste) to get right shield texture used.
Same process for weapons.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
gus, can anyone please pos a link to the CAS extractor? Ive been messing with my PC and forgot to backup, and cant find the link now....
Cheers.
BTW, hoggy great tutorials!
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Thank you very much Hoggy -your help is very much appreciated.I guess same would apply to changing head gear.
Quote:
gus, can anyone please pos a link to the CAS extractor? Ive been messing with my PC and forgot to backup, and cant find the link now....
http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=43
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoggy
Swapping Weapons and shields:
-1 import CAS with shield you want to keep. select shield and click on 'unlink selection' button (top left). Then File - Save Selected. Save the shield with whatever name you like.
-2 New scene. Import the model you want to take the new shield. Delete the existing shield from the model. File - merge, to merge in the shield you saved out in step 1. click on use scene's material. Go into schematic view and link the shield back to left hand (click 'link selection' button top left and drag the shield node onto the left hand node).
-3 export the CAS
-4 Edit the texture (cut and paste) to get right shield texture used.
Same process for weapons.
I did follow your instructions but I keep getting this error message.It is probably something simply that I have messed up :help:
[IMG]http://img64.exs.cx/img64/9316/error18.jpg[/IMG]
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Did you link the new shield back to the hand bone in the schematic view? (graph editors-new schematic view) I think that should fix it. I'm off on holiday for a few days from tonight so apologies if i don't reply...
ps. this process only works for seperate objects like the weapons and shields so won't work for headgear unless its a seperate object.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Could you please maybe recommend us to some beginner tutorials please? I'm really stuck on getting my head around 3ds max, and as I am the only modeller on my mod team it is hard as I am hopeless at 3ds.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Enjoy your holidays Hoggy, I will keep on experimenting ~:)
I'm not sure of you find much info for beginers (I didn't) but try :
http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...p?showforum=35
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=45
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Problem finally solved.It was all to do with linking.Thx once again Hoggy
[IMG]http://img22.exs.cx/img22/7610/solved.jpg[/IMG]
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
" 1. Import an existing .CAS model preferably the highest poly version (ending in _400 or _highest) from Data\models_unit. (make sure you have Vercingetorix’s latest exporter). "
Hi. Sorry for being dumb, but could you give me a step-by-step guide of how to do this? I have 3ds max and all the rest - I just can't work out how to get the .CAS files into the program. It gives me an error message if I try to import them, and I don't know how Vercingetorix's exporter works. I have read the readme, but I don't understand it very well.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
I will try but please remember I'm new to that too.First of all download the latest version of Vercingetorix's script from :http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=141
Next step is to unzip file into your max script folder.Start max.In the right corner you will see Utility button (hammer icon) in the bottom press "Run script"
http://img127.exs.cx/img127/5336/3583.jpg
That will open script folder where you should select script to import CAS files
http://img127.exs.cx/img127/2553/3584.jpg
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
With script running you need now set the texture path and press "Import CAS" button
http://img127.exs.cx/img127/6663/3585.jpg
About errors...I believe some CAS can not be imported.If you see messages about importer detection files being old and so ,don't import it.Select file you need to import (high or 400 CAS) and you can now modify this sexy lady
http://img127.exs.cx/img127/3310/3586.jpg
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Thanks mate - that's really good of you, but the problem I seem to encounter is getting the texture path - what do I type there?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Default texture's path in the script comes as D:/Program Files/Activision....all you need to do is set texture path to where textures files are located (model _unit/textures).All I needed to to is to change D to C as my RTW is installed on C drive.You can also do that by pressing "Set Texture Folder Path" -I have marked in red on one of pictures.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
http://filipeabranches.no.sapo.pt/MTW/BA/test%206.jpg
This will be for a Bronze Age mod
look at the units in background, they're shiels are smaller.
mabe this happens because we usually work on the high resolution CAS file.
so is there a way to clone quickly the lower res CAS files?
other issue, I just get that shield larger with the displacement of vertex. when rescaled the shield in MAx , when I import to check the CAS file, the shield become to default size.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Check "Ignore all textures" and it won't import textures. You're using an earlier version then 5.0 I'm guessing?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Quote:
Originally Posted by flip
look at the units in background, they're shiels are smaller.
mabe this happens because we usually work on the high resolution CAS file.
so is there a way to clone quickly the lower res CAS files?
other issue, I just get that shield larger with the displacement of vertex. when rescaled the shield in MAx , when I import to check the CAS file, the shield become to default size.
A quick temporary way to fix this is to make the model use the high res.CAS at all distances in the descr_model.txt but it's not a long term solution as it's bad for processing speed. eg:
model_flexi data/models_unit/kappa_archer_400.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/kappa_archer_400.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/kappa_archer_400.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/kappa_archer_400.cas, max
your scaling problem is possibly to do with the fact that the sheild is linked to the hand on the skeleton. Either unlink it, scale it and reset transforms, and then re-link it or do as you have been and rescale vertices.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Another question Hoggy -how does one go about editing helmets/head gear?
Is it only editing textures or is max modification needed too ?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
u will need 3dsmax if u wish to modify the SHAPE. If u just want to change the texture (i.e. the "colours"), then u extract the textures, modify them, give them another name, put them in the relevant folder, and point the game to that texture.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Thanks for the help guys, but all I'm still getting is a skeleton, with an error message:
MAXScript Rollout Handler Exception
-Type Error: if-test requires BocleanClass, got: unidefined
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
I'm helpless now...are you sure you are trying to import CAS files ?
Quote:
u will need 3dsmax if u wish to modify the SHAPE. If u just want to change the texture (i.e. the "colours"), then u extract the textures, modify them, give them another name, put them in the relevant folder, and point the game to that texture.
ok thx...all I'm trying to do is to replace head gear from model to another.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Hi guys Anyone knows a way to export well and make lower cas files? since I made some but on the majority of cases the exporter messes up even if saying that the export was succesfullll , then in game there are weird stuff..... :help:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Here is another quick question: I'm trying to get rid of cloaks on cataphracts models.Would I need to edit model or texture ?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
The cloaks on the horses or riders? If you mean horses, it's part of the model sadly. You could change the horse used by the unit into one that isn't cataphract in export_descr_unit.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
I meant on the riders Hoggy...I did delete feathers from their head gear but cloak does not appear in max and I'm not sure which part of textures refers to cloak
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Try rotating him around in Max, I just loaded one of the cataphract models and the cape is a singlefaced poly so you can only see it from behind. Might not be the case on yours but worth a try.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Now I can see that...for some strange reason it would have not shown before.
Thx again Hoggy.Now last question: about head gear.How does one replace helmets? for example if one wants "switch" heads of Hunting Maiden with Scythian Noble woman ?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
It means editting the model, I've done a tutorial hopefully that will help.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
What am I doing wrong? I've downloaded the importer/exporter for the R:TW .cas 3D file format, ran it properly, set my textures path, selected "Import CAS" but why am I not getting the image of the model/unit? Instead, here's what I'm getting -
http://img79.exs.cx/img79/6991/e6i3ds.jpg
...instead of this -
http://img127.exs.cx/img127/3310/3586.jpg
Why am I not getting that image? I'm using 3D Studio Max 7 btw...
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
This may sound silly, but.. have you tried zooming?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Quote:
Originally Posted by eadingas
This may sound silly, but.. have you tried zooming?
No, where is the option for that? I can't seem to find it...
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Right hand side corner button min/max toggle (big square and small one),click on that and the use you mouse scroll button to zoom in
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Hi there,
Just a quick question for the model modifiers - do you think 3D Studio Max 6 or higher will work with Windows 98? I'm debating whether to get a secondhand one.
Thanks,
Clare
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
http://img129.exs.cx/img129/998/untitled1fb.jpg
Is this lowest CAS file for scythian lancer and nobelman ? I don't think I have my file corrupted so could someone please check it out.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
thats the bones of the unit
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
For some reason I get CTD with any of those two units modded.That lowest CAS must be reason
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
:help:
where do you find the 3d max file! plz help me after opening the dowload i have to put the file into 3dsmax/scripts right? where do i find the map?
:help:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Hammer icon and run the script
Look at post 21 in this thread - there are screenshots on how to do
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
'Next step is to unzip file into your max script folder'
where is this max script folder?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Normally : C:/3dsmax5/scripts
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
is using 3ds max the ONLY way to model in RTW?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Hello,
Very nice information about Models here, however I have a small question.
How would we handle the sprites for a new unit (new model and texture) ?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Jerome said something about a sprite generator in the "post your must know modding questions here" (in the general modding forum). How long this will take to come out is unknown and whether it will ever come out is also unknown but lets just hope.
Anyone got any info on this?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Hello, i also got the same question as the other post, is there ANY other way to modify the characters or is ther another program. Something that can also rotate character, add/delete thier apparance and can be used in the game? i tried looking for 3ds Max 30 day trail but it said they weren't giving it out anymore that maybe in the future. so i downloaded gmax from the same site and it looks EXACTLY the same as this 3ds max people are talking about so is it also for modding. to me it's kind of wierd activision and the designer would only depended on 3ds max for people to use when moddeling. Please someone asnwer both questions i would appriciate it. thanx :help:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
I've just got version 6.0 of 3D STudio Max and I would like to ask someone to write a brief tutorial about modelling new or modifing existing units for Rome Total War using 3D studio Max 6.0.
I would really appreciate that because I don't know how to use this programme at all!! There are too many option, buttons, bars, menus and I can't make out for anything!!
Wanna thank everyone of you who gives me an hand.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Infernalbob .... as far as changing the 3D models in this game you can ONLY use 3DS Max. When the game was designed, it was done on a commercial basis by professionals. They wouldn't restrict themselves to using a £20 software package on such a large project....they would use the best tools there budget would allow. The fact that we can mod this game at all is down to Max's power and the ability of Vercingetorix to write a Max-script file that translates the model format.
Now...Creative Assembly have made this game VERY moddable... the file format was not kept a tight secret, and as a result, we can do what we can. Trust me....I can't think of many other developers who make it as eaay as this.
G-Max...yes. OK. This is actually a cut-down version of max, with the rendering facilities removed and a VERY tight control over the formats you can save in. It is given out free....but there is a catch!
Discreet will write a plugin and integrate it into G-Max for a price. Tehn the software can export to your format. Lovely. I was invovled in a project some years back that looked into a G-Max licence, and then there was a starting fee of £10,000 for development. There was then ongoing licencing fees and costs. This is fine for the likes of Quake III or MS Flight Sims, wheer you are selling hundreds of thousands of units. It costs in. Otherwise...well...it's a very expensive way to mod. Less cash-rich developers are not going to be doing this. In short.... useful to learn Max ... useless for modding RTW.
Finally....learning 3DS Max from scratch is a big job. There are HUNDREDS of tutorials, lots of books ( I can recommend the 3DS Max 6 Bible ), Max specific forums, and such like online. Fire up google and get searching. Focus on mesh-modelling, uv mapping, and general understanding of the toolbars. Oh yes...and READ THE MANUAL! It's written in 3D-jargon, but you MUST learn to speak the language. TRy 3D Buzz for tutorials. It is a MAJOR job to teach someone to model. I know...I have done it before. You can't just write a tutorial and create an instant modeller.....it takes time, practice and a lot of patience!
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
This question comes up so often - How do I use 3ds max, can someone give me a tutorial. As Bwian said its not easy to learn 3ds max but someone has already written many tutorials, in fact they come with the program. Just go into the help menu and do the mesh editing tutorial (I think you model a hand, I haven't done it for quite some time now) and do the UV map tutorial (you texture some kind of spaceship). These tutorials really helped me learn and although you may sometimes get stuck just keep at it. It will only take a month at the most to learn how to edit the models enough to start on the cas files but if you want to learn every function (and you probably don't) it can take years.
If you want some breif tutorials see hoggy's tutorial and there is a really good one on strategic command center, I will edit the post and post a link if I find it again. Good luck!
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
another quick question that I'm sure Hoggy can easily answer.How does one create lower CAS files from CAS high ? Chivalry 0.1.6 hastings mod comes with single cas files of knight templar and gothic kinght but not lower models.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
I believe you have to do it by hand, building a reduced version for each level of detail and then re- exporting with a new name. There are basic poly reduction tools in max but they don't do a clean job which you need to export CAS. It's grunt work and as such most mods don't have the time but it'll mean that people with older pcs will struggle with alot of mods.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maly Jacek
another quick question that I'm sure Hoggy can easily answer.How does one create lower CAS files from CAS high ? Chivalry 0.1.6 hastings mod comes with single cas files of knight templar and gothic kinght but not lower models.
Take inspiration from CA.
Good places to recover faces (triangles) from is the head, arms and legs.
In the high detail models, theres alot of exesive detail in the face, mainly the lips and nose, quick easy way to fix this is to vertex weld them together (you will need to do a quick re-mapping of the texture though, buts its pretty simple). Helmets often have 2 or more 'rows' of vertices between the brim and the tip, again, cheat by welding them together, or just delete the faces and recreate them so there is only one row.
The arms and legs are also pretty easy. Try to get both as close as you can to rectangular prism, with the hands/foot meeting at a sharp point. You can use vertex weld again (esp. for the hands/feet), but I find it much easier to delete the faces on one side at a time, and then create a new poly in its place using the respective tool (I normally just run the poly from the shoulder right down to the elbow, then another from the elbow to the point of the hand).
Weapons are another good place to grab some polys, just have 2 planes, facing opposite directions, and UV map them to the weapon in your texture. 4 triangles, you dont get much more minimal then that!
Of course, these tips are for the lowest of detail settings. If you want to work on the others, just find places of unneeded detail that can easily be trimmed down. For those with high end PCs, the loss in detail wont be noticed at range, and those with lesser machines, they will be thankful for being able to play your mod.
Oh yeah, and make your life easy, delete half of your model, do your LOD work, then mirror it, as you will need to reskin the bones anyway, this will nearly half your work!
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Thx guys ..will give a try
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Oh yes, I forgot to mention this!
Change the model to an editable poly (rather then mesh) so you take advantage of the 'safe delete' (highlight and press backspace). This will allow you to remove edges and vertices with out deleting the faces they are attatched to (it effectively automatically redraws it). Done in the right way, this can free up loads of faces with out screwing up your texture mapping. Sadly it can't be used everywhere, but it can save alot of time.
There are other useful features in poly mode that are worth checking out, but you can run into issues converting between poly and mesh, so be careful on the more powerful tools.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
when I try to imprort a model.... Unit_****_400.cas it says it's of earlier version and when it asks whether I want to continue and I press yes it just shows some undistinguishable lines......
also...
Quote:
3. Select all the vertices in the model and hit ‘weld selected’ in the options on the right making sure the value is set to 0.00001 (approximately ) This makes the model into one continuous element rather that many different ones.
When I try to do that it says "No vertices within Weld threshhold"
plz help ~:confused:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
my bad for double post... couldn't find the edit button.
Ok... I figured that i'd zoom in on the undistinguishable lines and .... the model appeared however... no vertices problem persists
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Some Cas files look like are leftovers from CA,unfinished units,barely human... ~:) ...only simple first stage rough bodies....so useless,unless you don't want to finish them by yourself,but there's already a wealth of models to play with in there... ~D
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
I can't even see any files in my folders? WHY? Help me. ~:cheers:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Hi hoggy and everybody else in this forum. I think that what you guys are doing here is just great. RTW is great. I am fascinated with all this moddeling and changing colours and weapons etc... I downloaded a freetrial version of 3ds max 7. here's the link. http://nct.digitalriver.com/fulfill/...34f25eb037e5-3
My question is... do I really need such an expensive program just to model and modify the units etc.. in RTW? Is there a cutdown vrsion that a person could have just to have some fun with? I am not a student of this art, nor do I know if I can do this, I am just totaly intrigued by it. Could you do the same thing with this version of 3ds max? please check link.
http://estore.discreet.com/dr/v2/ec_...ACHE_ID=174329
Thanks very much to whoever responds. :help:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Hi thelonewolf, and welcome to the .org forums!
Unfortunatly, the CAS extractor was made by a fan not by CA, and it was made as a 3ds max script.
There is a program called GMax. This program is free, but I'm not sure where to download it. With this program, you can open CAS files, but you can't save them. I recommend downloading GMax, use it to edit your models, and then ask someone at these forums if you can send them to them and they will send back the CAS files. Thats your best bet I think.
PotatoChip, what do you mean?
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Here is a link to gmax
http://www4.discreet.com/gmax/
If anyone wants models converting back into .cas form just pm me ~:cheers:
Sundjata Keita
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Thanks a lot guys. I have now gotten myself a copy o 3ds max7. Problem is, I have to learn all the features as it applies to RTW. The tutorials do not address the specifics of .cas files as they pertain to the game. I understand the concept of the 3d modelling, but not the way I have read here on the forum. Is the 3d modelling in the tutorials, more, or less difficult than the RTW type of moddeling? what am I missing? how do I apply a skin? a texture? texture colour etc... when I import a .cas file, all I get is a skeleton and no matter what I do I can't apply a skin. Do I need to draw a skin over the bones, as in the other form of moddeling? what does UVW stand for? (in layman terms). Is there a glossary of terms I can get? as it applies to the modelling in RTW? I have so many questions, but life is too short.
Thanks in advance guys. ~:cheers: :help:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Modelling for RTW is on the whole easier than just modelling anything because it sticks to basics. When you import the cas it should have a skin but if not it may be an older version of the file. If you are talking about the actual texture on the skin then at first you will need to force the texture path and pick the folder in the pack files with all the textures.
UVW is the map that shows the computer where to put the texture on the model. You can edit it by clicking on the UVW modifier in the dropdown list and then clicking "edit"
Remember learning how to use MAX isn't easy and will take a while to learn just the basics. As for a glossary of terms you could use the help in max to search for anything you don't understand although from experience if you are new to max it may just confuse you more ~;)
Hope that helps,
Sundjata Keita
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Thanks a lot Sundjata, Is there a place, like maybe Activision where one can download the newer files?
Thanks. ~:cheers:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
The newer files are just the ones the game uses, if you look at all the models test quite a few and see if the problem persists. Often a message will appear on the cas importer saying that it is an older version. Can you post a screenshot of the problem and then I can see what you mean.
Regards,
Sundjata Keita
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Thanks again Sundjata, I have gone into the file that the game uses and printed out a portion of the file to make sure I am importing the right one. I am trying to get this specific one that the game uses. (data/models_unit/unit_praetorian_high.cas,15) the next three in line on the game file, end with: low.cas,30, 40, and max. but keep getting the same error message. MaxScript Rollout Handler Exception
Type error: if-test requires BooleanClass, got: undefined
I tried to insert a screenshot, but don't seem to be able to get that to work either. :furious3:
:help: :embarassed: ~:confused:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Do other units' models import properly? If so then the one you are importing is an older filetype and nothing can be done. If the problem applies to all the units' models then you may have an outdated cas importer and I suggest updating to the latest one (I think it is v6)
Regards,
Sundjata Keita
PS if you want to post a screenshot then use a hosting site like www.imageshack.us ~:)
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Hey! Sundjata, and everybody else. I have everything working just fine. I reinstalled the .cas extracter and all's well. I, on the other hand am more, and more baffled. I don't get the RTW unit texture maps, they are all scrambled in the tga and I don't understand how these are this way while other 3d maps I've seen are just an opened-up textured skin. If all I wanted to do at this time was to just change some colours, would I have to paint over the old ones, or do I change the RGB values? I tried once painting over the old colour and the file got very large and would not run in the game, ~:confused: what Layer would I paint on? I read a photoshop tutorial in these forums but don't remember where. does anyone know the thread?
I have managed at least one modd. Using Caligula, I modified the Julii Triarii just giving them the ability to form a Phalanx and instantly in the game they had long pikes and were practically an inpenetrable wall I noticed that they still would use their long pikes like a spear when ordered to attack and were a lot more effective than the Greek Hoplites.
Thanks Guys
~:confused: :dizzy2: ~:cheers:
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
OOPS!!!!! :furious3: I almost forgot. On the Campaign map, how do I find the exact coords.? how far to the right does it go in numbers? if bottom left corner is 0,0 , what number is the upper right corner? what is the scale? I read that Photoshop will give you the coords. but that they start from the left upper corner instead of the bottom left. I this true? I want to add gold and silver mines to a province but need to know where to put it.
Many thanks.
-
Re: Modelling New 3D Units for RTW
Sounds like you have a lot of questions ~:) If you want to change the colour of a unit in photoshop then you must select all the parts of the texture of that colour and then press ctrl u to bring up the simple colour changer, play around with the sliders until you get the colour you want. The filesize should be no bigger.
You will notice that many of the UV maps (the things that decide where the textures go in relation to the model) are different and this is purely because the layout used was easier for that particular model. All the UV maps are cylindrical though, which means that for the arm texture, that flat bit of arm has to wrap itself right round the arm on the model. Same applys for all the other bits of the model.
You are right in thinking that the game takes it from the bottom left and photoshop from the top left. It is quite easy to fix though
1. First click on the info box in the top left of the screen (next to the navigator) so you can see co-ordinates
2. Then use the square selection tool to select all of the campaign map and note down the width and hieght (I can't remember what they are)
3. Then deselect the area and put you mouse on the bit where you want the goldmine
4. Look at the co-ordinates shown in the info box, to work out the co-ordinates in game, the x value will be the same and the y value will be the total height minus the y value seen.
Hope this all helps, ~:cheers:
Sundjata Keita