The Best faction?

I have learned to fight very well as the Romans with the legionaries, and I have been experimenting with some of the other factions. I played a short greek campaign but never liked it because of the weak cavalry and smaller phalanx units (80 in a Greek Phalanx vs 120 in Macedonian...).

The Roman Cohorts are good against phalanxes from a distance because they can shower them with spears and flank them easily, and they also are usually superior in hand to hand combat on the city walls. But when faced with a battle line of phalanxes, attacking from the front is sometimes the only option and the cohorts take heavy casualties when you don't have enough archers. Triarii or Auxilia don't really help either since their spears are so much shorter.

When playing as the greeks, the most frustrating thing for me was the weak infantry units. When the Romans attacked me, my phalanx units were almost useless for defending the walls, especially since they are equal in size to their Roman counterparts. The only non-hoplite units are peltasts, which are even more inferior to cohorts.

I like the Macedonians though because the larger unit size makes up for the inferior infantry, and they also have a much better set of cavalry units. They still don't have any good non-hoplite melee units though.

I just played a custom battle as the Seleucids and I have to say that they have the best overall choice of infantry. They combine the best of both worlds (Roman & Greek) with the large 120 man Phalanx units, as well as mimick Roman Legionaires. They also have the heavy cataphract cavalry AND elephants!

With this, you can have your line of Phalanx Spearman first, with a reserve of capable legionaries behind them, who can actually fight hand to hand rather than just skirmish. The armored cataphract cavalry seems almost invincible to lighter cavalry auxilia units, and just one group of elepaphants is enough to split the enemy line in half!!

My next campain will be as the Seleucids, and I can't wait till I get my new laptop so I can used the huge units sizes without having to turn the graphics all the way down and watch the stick figures fighting.

I only played Julii.. this is my 3rd campaign.. Still looking for perfection.. Can't manage my cities well yet... Have tried other... but haven't continue them until perfected the Julii campaign first... ~:cheers:

If you speak in terms of efficiency then the Romans are by far the most powerful factions. They have counter-units for every units they lack.
If you speak in terms of unit range then yes the best are the Seleucids, but I don't really like their position, they're surrounded by too many potential hostile factions (like the Gauls). Once you get rid of the Egyptians, it's rather easy though.

for my taste i´d say Greek City States, awesome hoplites and greek cav with alot of exp is preety kick ass and it will not cost you alot.

I prefer the Seleuicids myself, pesk invading armies can mostly be bribed cos you have tons of money, next to them would be Carthage, bu they both suit my style of play.

However, there is no real ULTIMATE faction which any type of player will embrace, so the best faction is a rather disguided matter of opinion and dependant on how you play.

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Originally Posted by Basileus

for my taste i´d say Greek City States, awesome hoplites and greek cav with alot of exp is preety kick ass and it will not cost you alot.

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Good point. The relative experience, upgrades and generals' ranking makes and enormous difference to the performance of any unit type. It's pretty hard to judge any unit from just one situation. eg inexperienced Hastati with a 1 star general fight like elderly ladies and break and run on a whim, but veteran Hastati, with armour and weapons upgrades, under a 6 or 7 star general fight like fanatics and will take huge losses before quiting.

With respect to TerranAce007's experience with hoplites - I found that if you stick them on the wall and turn off phalanx, they perform well in hand to hand with their short sword. This could be my imagination but I thought that they performed even better when I got them to attack the guys coming over the wall (as opposed to getting them to just stand there in guard mode).

.........and the Seleucids seem to have pretty much every hardcore unit on their unit list. I played with them and near the end they were invincible.

Personally my favourite is the Romans. The only lack they have is in good anti-cav (auxilla's but I'd rather use a legionare any time) I am just a fan of sword-type units for their versatility. Even in MTW I always used a sword/axe type unit because they can be used against anything. This is where the romans own in my opinion. Now if only they had elephants.

I love greek cities faction, too. Best place (wonders all all around), nice units and lots of denarii ;)

A solution (of sorts) to the problem of phalanxes on walls is to have a few peltasts on the walls just to tire the enemy out, and keeping your army in the plaza with phalanxes on each of the approaches to it. You can't be flanked, with adequate cavalry support you can drive off enemy archers, and yours can shoot up the enemy from behind the phalanxes. Two phalaxes (one a few metres behind the other) is good. Instead of sending the second unit in to support the first, have the front phalanx be a militia hoplite and the one behind a better hoplite (armoured, Spartan, whatever you have). Let the militias hold the enemy off as long as they can before they break, then let them break and run. The enemy will then have to face a full, fresh armoured phalanx with their tired, weakened units.

I personnally will be strange ans say the Scyths, they are by no means ultimate but suit my hit and run style. The parthians have elephants (which they shouldn't have) but still, the scyth noble archers are better IMExperiance than Parthian or was it Persian horse archers. I don't miss the Katas because Scyth nobles are good enough for what I need them to do and Scyth noble archers kick ass...I used to be very much an INF person but I am converted to the Doug Thompson way of combat :knight:

I've tried the British, Selucids, Greeks, Egypthians and the three roman factions. My money is on the Brutii. While basicaly the same troops as the other two, they get two major advantages imo. the Mars bonus and their privileged trade position. Plus you manage to take Greece fairly early in the campaing and don't have to worry about money ever again.
The greek style states may be powerful but their infantry is too ungainly and easily otuflanked. Too slow chaging in phalanx makes them prime targets for arrows and javelins. Even armored hoplites suffer a lot. Selucids stand a better chance due to their superb cav. units
Egyptians I've palyed too little to form a solid opinion but didn't like what I saw. And if all barbarian factions are like the british, I'll have to destroy the romans before they get to the Marian reform or I wont stand a chance. Even early roman units give me a hard time. An army of 300 romans anihilated 700 of my upgraded (as much as I could) britons in one single battle. Well, I guess that's why the games name is Rome ans not Barbarian TW. ~:cool:

Great game, I love it.

I'm loving the seleucid, It's just a brilliant mix. altough its a bit hard to start of, it's hard to play against parthians when you only have peltast and militia hoplites and those damn horse archers just keep running. :dizzy2:

but now, I'm a huge fan of a simple strategy:
-big line of phalanx, at the side roman copies ( against flanks)
-behind archers
and at the side I like to flank with scythed chariots, i've not seen a post jet but they rock. if you mage the flank they wil surely disrupt there formation and if you time it right and just after the cav charge your phanlanxescome in, then its real havoc.

haven't really got the change with elephants. They rock too, no questioning, but S. chariots can be trained anywhere from a very basic level of settlement.

I like the Egyptians. The axemen are great for cutting through phalanxes, even against some of Macedon's Phalanx Pikemen (which are supposed to be really good). Then you have the Pharaoh's Guard and Pharaoh's Bowmen. They are expensive, but will definately make the game easier if you put them in your main army. If you start building ships from the beginning, you will easily be able to dominate the sea and blockade the Selucid Empire's ports. Then, start taking their settlements and hitting them up for cash (Selucid Empire is quite rich). Once you take them over, you will basically control land that once belonged to two of the richest factions in the game.

I usually keep 5 units of Pharaoh's Guard in front, cover the flanks with axemen. Cover the axemen with Nile Cavalry or the Axe Cavalry. Use the heavy orangers to take out enemies from afar and hit them with Pharaoh's bowmen as they approach. Then, send in your Pharaoh's Guard to lock the enemy in place (make sure your artillery and archers stop firing) and circle around with the axemen and follow up with cavalry charges. Of course, this is for the serious Rome-taking battles only. Most of the time, even against heavily fortified cities with Phalanx Pikemen, I usually just win by sending in 3 units of axemen and 1 unit of axe cavalry (that way I won't have to look for a Huge City to retrain my higher level troops).

The Greeks are pretty good, too. They have the best infantry, hands down. They can also become EXTREMELY rich if they take the Island south of Italy (the ones that are originally controlled by carthage and scipii). Greeks do get cavalry eventually, so it's not like you have nothing to flank with. The most important advantage of the Greeks is that they are very close to Rome, and can start taking over all of Italy long before the Marian reforms (which make it much harder).

Even though I like Romans and Barbarians and play them often, Selucid is the best faction. They have wery good hoplites. They have their own legionaries so they can defend a city wall. They have Elephants. They have Chariots.
No contest. :duel:

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Originally Posted by WannabeGosu

Even though I like Romans and Barbarians and play them often, Selucid is the best faction. They have wery good hoplites. They have their own legionaries so they can defend a city wall. They have Elephants. They have Chariots.
No contest. :duel:

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Good point. Unfortunately, they are very difficult to play as in the beginning, as they are surrounded by very powerful factions.

horse archers are not a challenge, just avoid anything but sieges and sallys and you fine.
the egyptians are not very hard either IMO.

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Originally Posted by LestaT

I only played Julii.. this is my 3rd campaign.. Still looking for perfection.. Can't manage my cities well yet... Have tried other... but haven't continue them until perfected the Julii campaign first... ~:cheers:

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Same here. I just finished with the Julii, but had played like 4 or 5 campaignes till I was satisfied with the result. I don't understand why people say that Julii are the weakest Roman Faction. I love the temple of Ceres. It makes all of my femily members very fertile. I finally invented a system for them. Before I'd try to have a governor in every city that I owned. Now I combine provinces in one super province and have one or two generals depending on the size. For example, Gaul, Spain, Eastern North Africa, Greece and Egypt were all provinces of mine. I tried to compete with the rest of the Romans and cut them from gaining land, but that always spread me too thin. I don't do that to such an extend anymore. I also tried to accomplish every Senate mission. But sometimes it is just not the best thing to do. The Senate got me in war with several countries I didn't want to fight. I ended up fighting half the world. But I'd concentrate on 2 factions primeraly and just defend my land with the rest. For each faction that I fight, I'd have 2 generals, who conquer and then move along provided they can do that without causing the newly gained land to revolt. I choose to use young generals that I train against rebels and by their mid 30ies they are 10 star generals. Then I move the young educated members from the capital to govern the new region. Also build a fort in the middle of each region and fill it up with troops. That will be your quick reaction group that will fight rebels within 2 turns of their appearance.I build towers every time a road crosses into an adjasent province so I end up with a lot of towers. I gave up building navies. I just ignore enemy ships and try to ship armies/generals when there are no enemy ships around. Building huge navies is a waste of money, but if one has it, than I'd suggest building the best silver upgraded ships - one stack per half the Med. Sea. Anyway, I have moved now to the Brutii. I am still trying different opening moves and reading a lot in topics about them. I hope it's gonna be an interesting game. I don't allow myself to play any other faction but I am so looking forward to play the Seleucids and Parthia. When I finish them all ( in about a year), I then can say which the best faction for me is.

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Originally Posted by BalkanTourist

Building huge navies is a waste of money.

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I like your style. The only thing I don't necessarily agree with is the use of ships. Blockading the major trade ports of your enemy is a great way to ruin their trade income whilst you're fighting them on land. Once the squeeze is on you'll notice how they just don't seem to be building replacement units as often....

Endless money being the sinews of war and all that.....

Im playing a Macedon short campaign. I have taken the GC over, and none of the Romans have bothered me yet, but right now Im just building an Iron curten of Men and Forts to hold back the Romans, and on the other side Im expanding and take over. I love their units, I do have trouble in seiges, I dont like fighting on the walls with spearmen but I really cant help that, but I manage. LOL :charge:

the easiest faction is the brits, you can just sit back build up your settlements/funds & no one will attack you(i abbandoned my settlement in mainland europe) then once youve got a strong & big army,,,ATTACK!!! :charge:

sentimentally speaking, Dacia is the best faction. but their are very heavy early on, one can lose evenif one does everything right.
on a more rational level of thinking, i think bothe the seleucids and the macedonians are great, but the seleucids have such a varied unit rooster thay have to be an all time favourite

Carthage Rulez! Only played Julii and Carthage though. But for me its enough to judge that the no Julii, pre-Marian or post-Marian reforms can withstand an elephant charge from any direction. elephants are too darn scary. combined with a lot of cavalry and some infantry and missile units, any carthagian army is unstoppable.

ive only been playing for a little while, but i believe im able to make my own opinion...

from the factions ive actually played,
brutii, julii,egyptians,parthians,greeks,britons...i would say that the britons...i loved the light chariots...its fun to see fleeing troops amid a mass of arrows flying from all directions...i didnt really like the egyptains cos it was the most annoying to manage...damn you squalor and pop. booms! parthia is a lot of fun to play, the only game played on medium (yes, im a n00b...all other campaigns where on easy :embarassed: ~:handball: )

Armenia. :charge:

Discussing about all these pro's and cons of every faction makes me think about what would be ''THE ULTIMATE ARMY'', made up from all kinds of different factions...

Spartan hoplites fighting alongside Egyptian chariots.
ok it is'nt possible in the game, but it would be cool for another thread ~:cool:

Even then...I disagree, Spartans are good but head to head silver sheilds or bronze sheilds, hell even levy pike will beat them head on...
As to chariots, give me elephants any day, far more useful

Germania are so good!

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Even then...I disagree, Spartans are good but head to head silver sheilds or bronze sheilds, hell even levy pike will beat them head on...

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What are you talking about? Spartans are the best hoplites in the game!

It all really comes down to the lenght of the pointy stick and pikeman have a longer one.

A quick test

120 phalanx pikemen vs 80 Spartans, head to head, no flanking or stuff like that.

Result, all Spartans dead and not a single pikeman even got a scratch.

For Spartans against inferior pikemen... disengage phalanx mode and run around the pointy sticks.

Best faction? Whichever one I happen to be playing. But the Dacians and Thracians always give me a bit of trouble late on in the game - they're rather obstinate and take several armies to reduce - even post-Marian Roman ones.

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Originally Posted by Ar7

It all really comes down to the lenght of the pointy stick and pikeman have a longer one.

A quick test

120 phalanx pikemen vs 80 Spartans, head to head, no flanking or stuff like that.

Result, all Spartans dead and not a single pikeman even got a scratch.

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...that doesn't seem quite right, I would love to seen a screen.

Try it yourself if you like, not hard to run a custom battle with two units. Spartans lost as there was no way they could reach the pikeman with their spears and the AI didn't figure it out to cancel phalanx mode. So they just stood there in phalanx mode watching as pikemen cut them down.

I've played (and finish) Julii , Germania , Britania , Macedonia on long campaign... Egypt played only half (so bored)... now Armenia and loving it... Total cavalry armies.. Only hired merc infantries when doing sieging... Cataphract archers decimate most or enemy units either phalanx or swords, then the other comes charging to fnish.... Right now in heavy war with the Brutii's.... Even their cohorts can stand up to so much missiles and heave cav charge.... Loving every moment of it... Will leave Rome last until my Armenians conquer all of the lands even to the farthers corner of Britain....

Eeerr,, bck to the question, which is the best faction played.. I leave to u guys (n gurl) to figure it out.. ehek.. 'tiL then.. ~:cheers:

Romans (all three). Over the course of the campaign, they took fewer casualties.

Thrace is amazingly strong. I'm playing a campaign with the strategic map and battle difficulties on very hard, and I have wiped out Macedonia relatively quickly (so far there the only faction that has been eliminated). They use the same phalanxes as most Greek factions and only have Greek Cavalry, so what makes them so strong? Falxmen and, when affordable, bastarnae mercenaries. Statistically they don't look like much, but they serve as the bulk of my army and rarely let me down. I only use phalanxes for when I'm expecting cavalry, and the falxmen do the rest of the fighting with cavalry as support. Falxmen also protect the phalanxes flanks, and I assume there is an equivalent unit for most other Greek nations. I've yet to see if Thrace stands a chance against Romans, however.

I've never had a problem with phalanxes in battle like the others who have posted here seem to, but then again I only use them in a defensive position and against cavalry. The Greek cities have no other infantry type, however, so I see how this is a problem when playing as that faction.

I really like Carthage as they get a range of decent cav, a variety of infantry - even iberians serve a purpose (cheap expendable troops for tieing up superior infantry), copies of auxilia, and a pair of decent phalanxes (while pikes may be better a good combo of troops can do well against anything), and they get elephants earlier (albiet with out archers).

The reason why Thrace is fairly powerful is because they have good lower-level units. The falxmen are excellent, even against cavalry, and function as great flanking units. They also guard the phalanx pikemen flanks very well. Their cavalry is horrible, so I recommend just using it as expendable flankers or for chasing down fleeing generals. The reason why these units are great?

Well, most of the time that I play as other greek-based factions (I'm pretty good at the game now and know what unit selections are best), I don't bother going above tier three units (unless they are units that don't see any action, such as onagers). The reason for this is that the super-high-level units are impossible to retrain and take a long time before you can even train them. As Macedon, for example, you have the Royal Pikemen and Phalanx Pikemen. The Royal Pikemen take twice as long to train and are a few points better than Phalanx Pikemen. Plus, they don't even have a heavy weapon (light for royals). So, what's the point? I ripped through all of rome with Phalanx Pikemen, normal archers, no onagers (not advanced enough yet), and Macedonian Cavalry. These are tier 3 units and I probably beat rome faster than I would have with the royal pikemen because taking them back to my mainland to retrain would take long. Same thing with Macedonian Cavalry. They are almost as good as Companion Cavalry, just easier to retrain and more expendable. Plus, royal pikemen and other tier 4/5 units generally cost 100-200 denarii more per-turn than the almost-the-same tier 3 units.

This is exactly what happens with Thrace. Their "killer" unit, Bastarnae, are good for your kings main army, but other than that, falxmen and the phalanx pikemen will suffice you. Falxmen and Phalanx Pikemen are also the ultimate anti-phalanx since the phalanxes can hold off other phalanxes while the falxmen flank and rout the enemies from behind. They replace cavalry quite well because cavalry are horrible at flanking phalanxes because you will almost always lose some troops even when rear-ending spearmen with horses. And your anti-cavalry units are the phalanxes, so you don't have to worry about horses. Your onagers will take out elephants and no sword/axe infantry that I have seen can hold up against the front of a pike phalanx, anyway.

Your only worry is horse archers, as falxmen are unarmoured and get pelted into oblivion rather quickly. Still, you can take them out with your own archers, or , if they are far away, use onagers. If you don't have them, tire them out with militia cavalry (they are expendable anyway), and when they come back to your lines exausted, get your fresh general or another fresh militia cavalry unit to charge them.

The beauty of Thrace is that they have a good unit combo early and for a small amount of cash. Plus, they are low-tier and can be retrained virtually anywhere.

Carthage is the way to go, ok all around units, plenty of cheap troops and with an elephant charge to break up a phalnax or a legion Iberian Inf can take them on without a problem. Barbarians are probably the biggest problem for me as Carth and on the campaign map I really find myself fighting them anyway.

The game is really unballanced though, the Roman calvary is way too good and the Egyptians are completely ridiculous, why is a desert axeman so tough? Also the fact that Guals seem completely incapable of hanging on in infantry fights seems kinda ridiculous, I hate that they are easy to break.

Up till now I've played Brutii, Scipii, Egyptians, Germans and am now playing Seleucids. I love the Germans (spear warband and chosen archer warband) and am waiting to get better elephants and kata's to really start kicking arse with my Seleucid armies! :charge:

For same reason I prefer killing Romans to playing them... :bow:

I'd rather be killing Romans than being one of them, too. I got the short campaign as the Julii over as quickly as possible so that I could gain access to the other factions, without modification. Although I really liked the Romans' infantry, and I miss their expanded pre-battle speeches, I guess I'm biased towards changing history for the underdogs. For instance, it was a real hoot to conquer medieval Europe as the French.

Marius also really irritated me. Third Founder of Rome my butt... Having to abandon all my beautiful silver and gold chevrons for fresh drooling idiots right out of post-Marius academies was my greatest disgust.

Right after the Julii, I played as the Germans, who had wonderful units but the most annoyingly delicate civil management I've seen yet. (prolly true for all barbarian factions, I bet) Right now, I'm as the Greeks, who are filthy rich and have very nice buildings, and invokes the occasional giggle when a named Greek philosopher joins a family member's retinue.

Personally, I love Germania. I need Chosen Axemen and Berserkers slaughtering Romans to complete my week ~:)

But actually the best factions are probably Seleucids and Brutii, maybe Greece.

Based on my very limited experience as ive only had it for a few weeks it seems to me the romans are probably the best all rounders. Cant get enough of there heavy infantry stomping everyone.

Ive played as the three Roman factions, the Gauls, the Macedons, the Dacians and the Pontics and out of them all I would have to say the Romans probably have the best all round army. However, the Pontic cavalry is very strong and varied and the Macedon infantry was pretty damm good as well. ~:)

Roman's are really quiet lacking in the anti cav area... if u play ur cards well enough a roman army can go down really fast... and when they go down they go down hard since u'll be able to kill most of the routers (though the greeks are even worse usually)

It's funny... they have 1 decent anti cav unit... which they can only build for a really short period of time (by the time u get to triarias the Marcus reform should be pretty close)... then u get the crap auxllirias which is only good for their price values. and still goes down to most cavs....

seriously... a decetn chariot charge >>>> romans... unless they get mass cav... which as others already meantioned... is too good realtive to historical facts.... but even then most factions can still out cav them.

I kinda agree with the other guy who said that Romans and Egyptian stuff are way too good while the Gauls are way too crap... Selucid is a bit too over to but at least they start at a very bad position......... both the roman faction and the eggies start at position that's realy safe.. in the case of the romans safe + huge trade too