Waiting To Take Rome: How To Civl War On Purpose?

Just wondering, how do you make the civil war on purpose? I've placed nine legions of mine, and yes, their legions, on the unit setting Huge next to Rome, and await the Civil War so that I can instantly first-strike the city. I've not done any Senate Missions for like 30 years in there, yet my scores with them still is like four highlighted ovals; so how do you purposely make the war?

Here is the screen shot of the military I have next to Rome. I'm not going for large conquest right now, just focusing on getting the Civil war on, so not much land, like 11 cities or something total, but most are almost totally built up.

~~ (**Update**) The screen shot shows only 8 stacks, but that was before I moved down another ~~

Each of those stacks is comprised of this, the ones next to Rome that is:

10 Units of 161 Legionary Cohorts
5 Units of 108 Roman Calvery
4 Units of 161 Archer Auxilia
1 Family Member General of varying from 40-80

My spies tell me, that Rome only has 22,000 citizens alone, so if my calculations are right, which they are, my army alone is larger than not their military, but their entire populace as well, now that's huge!

Senate army: Residing around 2,000 soliders.
Senate (Rome) Populace: Residing around 22,000+

My waiting legions comprising my Southern Strike Army: 25,596

Think I'll win? Man that battle will be huge. Be nine of my armies (if it allows all of them) plus the enemy army and the city at once, since all of mine are commanded by the Faimly Member Generals. Cant wait!

But still, how do I start the Civil War on purpose?

http://www.geocities.com/mac100mc/waitingtotakerome.JPG

Can't you just attack?

Or do you need to declare war first using a diplomat?

To initiate the civil war you need to either (a) have a standing with the people of at least 8 points, or (b) let your Senate rating slip so low that the Senate demands your faction leader's suicide, then refuse. You can't start the war before fulfiling one of these, otherwise you'll just get a message saying you don't have enough support.

My first 'game' of Rome TW but I had good popularity with the 'plebs' and my popularity with the senate was poor (it was saying things like they rubbish you in public and cast doubt on your parentage).

Basically I thought I would get a pre-emptive strike in on the Senate so marched my 6 start general on Rome. The other factions have declared war on me so I am just going ot take them on. I still need 12 more regions but one of my diplomats seesm to be able to bribe anything!!

~;)

Find a senatorial faction member and cancel your alliance and military access. The senate will then out law you, well this is what I did tp take Rome anyway.

Obivously, ignoring the senate missions isn't enough to provoke the war. You need to be popular with the people.

One thing lowering your plebian rating is your lack of conquests. Send a few of those stacks out and take a couple handfuls of provinces and your popularity with the people will increase, they love a winner.

I've always tried to perform the missions and still get the civil war because I conquer everything I can reach.

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Originally Posted by lars573

Find a senatorial faction member and cancel your alliance and military access. The senate will then out law you, well this is what I did tp take Rome anyway.

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Doesn't work, so I'd like to know how you done it ;-O

Btw, your economy looks pretty bad :-)

Have an militarically-aspiring young lad of around 16-18 years of age be your faction leader and just start attacking neighbouring barbarian factions left and right, enslaving and extermintating them. Dont stop to pacify the cities, just have a backup peasant stack to fortify them trailing behind. I think its in the Senate would fear you more if you have a young faction leader conquering the world in a frantic pace. That's in my experience anyway.

Wat kinda comp u using anyways? 9 Full Stacked Armies with Huge setting attacking a large/epic stone wall city would definitely kill my comp :(....

How on earth u managed to pay for maintanance of those armies? Do u own greek/africa or just Gaul......

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Originally Posted by Medieval Assassin

Btw, your economy looks pretty bad :-)

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And how.

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Originally Posted by Medieval Assassin

Doesn't work, so I'd like to know how you done it ;-O

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Sorry I left out some stuff, allow me to be clear. The sequence of events that lead to me overthrowing the senate starts about 15 years before the actual event. As the Brutii I had taken all of greece and most of asia minor plus the Danube frontier, I also got Lilybaeum as a result of a gladiator upring there. I get the you have enough support from the people to axe the senate message. Not realizing that the message means in the this turn right now you have the support. I embark on an army recruitment drive, 4 seperate stacks are needed for the first phase of my power grab in Italy. 1 legion for Capua, 1 for Messana, 1 for Syracuse, 1 for Arretium, and one for Rome herself. The legions destined for Rome and Capua are made up of praetorian cohorts and praetorian cavalry with some cav auxilia. A standard legion is going to Arretium and 2 armies of legionary cohort are bound for Messana and Syracuse. fast forward 12 years and all is in readiness. But I find my moment has passed 12 years ago, D'oh, D'oh a thousand times D'oh :embarassed: . So what to do, in frustration I bribe 1 Scipii family member plus Syracuse and Messana. Bribing the Scipii family member sent my senate rating into the shitter, bribing the 2 Scipii cities incured their rath. They gave me 2 messages 1 was return Messana or you will be investigated by the Adille, and return Syracuse or I will be investigated by the Censor. Edited for content. So I sent a diplomat to Rome and told them they were no longer my Allies and that all ties are severed. Then I sent my praetorian army on Rome captured it and exterminated the people Capua, and Arretium too. That's how I got to attack Rome by ending my alliance with the senate.

I attacked the Senate as soon as I had Plebian approval. ~:) I didn't waste time waiting for the senate to ask for my faction leaders head.
I must admit I was a little peeved when I brought down my 2 full stack armies and started sieging Rome only to be attacked by a smaller army supported by the garrison army from Rome. I wiped them out ( as they had to climb a very steep hill to attack me ~;) ) I didn't get chance to run my cavalry through the streets of Rome as once i'd finished with the battle there were no senate troops left in Rome, so I just walked in from the strategy map ( I really was looking forward to a good fight over Rome.)

It did however leave me enough troops to march on the southern cities in Italy.

Ah bro, there is a reason that the bottom of that picture was cut off, so you fella's dont get jelous at the amount of cash I have stashed away. For an example, Greece in there is down to just four cities, with Thrace dominateing them & Brutii... no clue how the Thracians are whipping so much bu'tay but they have the largest faction lol!

So I send a diplomat to Greece, and offer them 100,000,000 for map information... even though I see the entire map already, just to hope that one day, I'll get to fight massive phallanx armies with my Roman legion's I'm crafting to perfection, just for an example of my wealth, no need to worry about economy anymore.

Most of my cities are fully developed, Epic-Stone-Walls rule! I have 10 units of Pratorein (however you spell that) in each of my massive cities, um like 5 cities like that. Four units of Archer Auxilia's, five Roman Calveries, & one Govnorer/Family General. So my cities are well defended to the max.

I guess that the sole legion in the North that I've crafted that's taken two provinces, and fought three other field armies, will have to continue their work, even though I'd retired them to serving life in the town they most recently took, where they suffered the most losses ever in my militaries history, over 1,000 men of the 3,000+ legion were killed in taking the town, which was the Gaulish Capital.

Yea, I'm keeping all of my units in production 24/7 (when I'm on). My units consist of what I stated above, good legion outfit's. But the ultimate would be 10 units of Urban Cohort, 5 units of Pratorian Calvery, one General, & four units of Archer Auxilia, but that will take almost twice the time to make. So you can either have one ultimate legion, or two almost just as good legion's like I have.

Its really hard managing the legion creation from the six provinces that are making them, having to constantly check them to ensure their in production, forming them up, giving them generals, gosh!!! But its going to pay off I think in the end, when the Supreme military might of the Julii march upon Italy & sacqu every single city along the peninsula.

I didn't do that.

Around -195, I got a senate message asking me to off my faction leader, I said screwed them, the next turn I send my faction heir to capture Rome, and then I generated about 10 diplomats, and went on a bribing rampage. Capturing 20+ roman provinces, decimating the Julii and the Scipii, destroying the Senate.


I don't recommend this unless you have the armies to back it up (15 spare full armies), the diplomats to handle the negotations or the ability to get them within 1 turn of refusing the suicide mission, and the treasure to back it up (near-on 2 million).

One stack is enough to take Rome. What possible reason can you have for putting nine stacks there?
Take the excess stacks and place them next to all the cities of the other factions in Italy. When you take Rome you will be able to take eight other cities in the same turn dealing a major blow before the civil war.

Why? Didnt you notice that there all spear-headed with Family Generals as well? Its because I want a massive battle, to have fun!

Fair enough!
Though I think it will be pretty messy with 8 AI controlled generals doing the death charge.

I have to say that is one small problem, the amount of pre-planning you can do before a civil war. If you are the Julii and you camp a stack outside each of the other cities yhe cicl war is largely over before it's begun, as you can control the pennisular from the outset (with naval landings being more common than a clement day in hell).

As long as your people's support reaches the threshold, a pop-up comes at the beginning of the turn, then you can attack any Roman faction.

People's support, in my experience, is solely dependent on my territory count and my facton leader's trait (those adding people's support, such as outstanding speaker). You can send him out to kill a lot, and let him gain some Roman's Hero trait, too.

From your snapshot I can tell your territory is simply... eh not enough. So people think "Hum this guy probably just used some cheat code to get that money," and they don't want to support you to take Rome yet. ~;)

If I were you, you know, I would just use those 8 stacks and beat the crap out of the rebell stack near arretium. That will teach them.

How u got so much money? So u own Gaul, Spain and Africa??

Oh i just remembered, let a sizeable amount of cities rebel from u. The senate will hate u for it but they give u a mission to capture them back. If u do, u get instant People's rating and a lot of negative senate's.

No, it seems odd that he has so much money yet the cities shown in the screenie are losing money hand over fist.
He must be using either a cheat or an exploit.

Can you declare war on one of the other Roman Families? If you can surely that will trigger civil war.

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Originally Posted by Herodotus

Can you declare war on one of the other Roman Families? If you can surely that will trigger civil war.

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I don't think you can, w/o the Civil War. One night after much lubrication, I accidentally tried to send a stack towards another Roman faction's town and it wouldn't let me.

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Originally Posted by Ziu

No, it seems odd that he has so much money yet the cities shown in the screenie are losing money hand over fist.
He must be using either a cheat or an exploit.

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Well he's already removed the fog of war by the looks of it.

This is the same guy who claimed to have totally loyal cities of 30K+ and berated us on how we were playing so poorly that we complained about unrest and squalor.

BTW, I asked for a screen shot of those cities, but none was forthcoming.

Well, everybody plays it differently. ~;)
Out of curiosity I'd like to know a few things:
campaign date, number of provinces, total income, total troop cost.
Concerning the massive negative income in the cities we see, one has to keep in mind that units are paid by the cities they are build in. We can assume that these armies were build in those cities.
BTW, the 1.000.000 offer to the Greeks is a gag, you don't have that money right?
I'll be blunt. If you don't want people to think that you cheat, as they obviously do, provide more info and more screenies. :bow:

R'as

Everyone has their style of gameplay. I do not play online, but I play in single player with any amount of cash I want. Some times I play with over 1,000,000,000 denarii, or normal play. On my campaign that I played before, I had not given myself any cheat money to start with, and my cities were happy. Its simple, just place a nice garrison of the best troops you've got, and build everything you can, set taxes to minimum, and daily games. You'll see that they'll be happy, and I found that out on my economy based games.

Why do you care if I "cheated with cash" on this particular campaign? I wanted to try the experience without the bogg down of cash, which would have been more realistic to the factions in that time, the leaders main concern wasent how much a unit cost, but how many they could produce. Your sarcasem shows your poor sportsmanship, and I think that you should be warned by the admins for trying to start a feud, thinking that your ego is so great that you must try to put me down from your own misconceptions of your Campaign. Dont forget, its a game, play as you whatever makes you have more fun, so what if someone else does not play as you do, that is their choice, not yours. I see nothing wrong with adding some extra starting cash for a Campaign in single player, and many others dont. Becideds what you posted was off topic and the admins have clearly stated, they do not want that. The fog of war thing I dont know, I turned it off one game weeks ago, now its always off, doesant matter to me, I get to see who is the biggest, etc.

So have fun, and play as you will!

*I dipise players who cheat however, against other players in Multiplayer, that is wrong, but Single is okay.*

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Originally Posted by Siris

*I dipise players who cheat however, against other players in Multiplayer, that is wrong, but Single is okay.*

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Well its OK! up to point. I mean fair enough if someone wants to use cheats to avoid or by-pass some of the challenges of the vanilla game then fine.

What you do in your own home and all that ~:cool:

But I have certainly witnessed STW players boasting about their superior performance and accussing others of poor game play because they can't match their speed to victory etc.

Anyone who comes on this forum and starts mouthing off at other players when they know they are using cheat codes is just a lamearse in my book. Its always best to be open and declare if you are using cheats that way there is no confusion.

This isn't in response to me, right?
I just assume that you are talking to R3dD0g
or whoever mentioned cheating in the first place.
I really don't care if you cheat, I would just like to know it.
If you hadn't there would have been a lot to learn for me.

R'as

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Originally Posted by R'as al Ghul

This isn't in response to me, right?

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I was responding to the comment in your post, but I suspect you must have been quoting someone else.

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Originally Posted by R'as

I really don't care if you cheat, I would just like to know it.

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Yes, that how I feel about it too. It wastes too much time when player start bragging about what they have achieved without mentioning the cheats they used to get there.

:laugh4:
Didz, it's all mixed up. My post #30 was in response to Siris #28, where I was confused if I was adressed. But your #29 made it before my #30 and so mine didn't really make sense without a name. ~D :dizzy2:

Sorry for this, but staying on the cheating-topic...

Ofcourse everybody can cheat in SP as much as they like, but to me it takes all the fun out of (just about every) game and when you do it's a sign that you're actually bored with it... I even feel like I'm cheating when I bribe too much armies off the field (that's because in mid-game I usually generate enough money to bribe just about everything and everybody I want) :embarassed:

Perhaps I should try playing Germania, I would assume they have a bit more cash-problems?!

Oh! I don't know about that, some people just haven't got the patience to play a game properly. The classic examples are the rushers who just want to finish the game as fast as possible and don't want to be bothered with the complexity of developing their cities and managing their population. A cheat that gives them unlimited gold means they can build huge armies and just smash through the military part of the game.

In my experience thats the most common use of cheats and is really the sign of an arcade game player who wants to win without using his brain. Yes, he would probably claim to be bored with the city management aspects of the game because besically he wasn't interested in them anyway.

So anyway back on topic.
I personally want to start the civil war asap. Before I do anything else because I want my capital to be Rome and I want to conquer out from there.

So far it seems it is pretty difficult to force the issue without going out and takin lots of land to get popular support.

Lets start a list of what can be done to get a Civil war as fast as possible WITHOUT gaining popularity with the people.

1. Refuse all senate missions.
2. Bribe other roman territories and refuse to return them.
3. Use diplomat to end all alliances and military access with other romans.

This is what I have gathered so far. Can anyone add to this list?

What about assasinations? Anything else at all?

How fast do you think a person can get outlawed? Lets race.... :)

I hope i'm not being too over the top here, but I notice far more of this braggart style of posting here since the RTW release.

Previously in good old MTW days this style was reserved for the .com boys.

Perhaps this arcade teen style is where the developers want to take the game ~:eek:

Have I "bragged" in anyway in this thread so far? No. I just simply have showed what I've done, and it still hasent sparked the civil war.

On the side note, on the one thread where I did brag about my public order, I was not useing cheats in that game, so lose the ego bro, its just a game go have fun! What I've found out so far that no one game is exactly the same, prehaps you had a harder setting than I did? A different faction? Many variables that could determine a different outcome to our public orders. :bow:

I'll re-start the conquering, see what it does. And having the large amount of cash doesant ruin the game, for a person that only gets to play Friday night, Saturday, & Sunday morning, I wouldnt have the time to experience anything much if I stayed with the economy, hence why I gave the cash, so I could upgrade & fight more. Its not as good as you guys think only getting 20 hours if that a week to play the game, 20 hours is a good weekend of play on it, and I dont brag about my cheat Campaigns with the money, only about the ones that I've earned it. :) So chill out lol.

On that, I wasent bragging, I put those men there, so I could have the biggest battle ever, well, it'd be my 2nd largest, the largest in custom battle, but this will fall short about 1,000 men but still have the city to take. But with the epic stone wall & my tens of thousands of men, I'll most likely take sever losses from the towers alone!

I think RTW has attracted a much wider group of gamers than STW and MTW. Probably becuase of the TV program 'Time Commanders'.

Personally, I still maintain that game developers should make a clear decision whether they are producing a historically accurate computer wargame or an fantasy arcade game and stick to that decision rather than trying to be all things to all people.

RTW definately has fantasy elements which would have been better left out if it is supposed to be a wargame. And if it isn't then where the hell are the wizards and dragons ~D

I think RTW is the least challenging of the titles released to date and hopefully wil mark the limit of how far CA are prepared to bend a games integrity for the arcade market.

Would hate to see CA go down the same path as Universal Studio's and start producing historical fiction.

Siris, I knew id been over top, no offece. ~:) Its a nightmare having to visit the boards, looking for for a patch.

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Originally Posted by R'as al Ghul

Concerning the massive negative income in the cities we see, one has to keep in mind that units are paid by the cities they are build in. We can assume that these armies were build in those cities.

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~:confused:
Is that how it works? I could have sworn that unit upkeep cost is distributed among the cities acording to city size. :dizzy2:

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Is that how it works? I could have sworn that unit upkeep cost is distributed among the cities acording to city size.

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Well, I guess it was a little premature to utter this theses.
During my campaign I got the feeling that the game keeps track of your units and calculates their upkeep cost against the producing cities income. However, your version makes somehow sense and could also be true. In fact, now you mention it, I've read it myself somewhere. Mmmm, can somebody clarify this?

R'as

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Originally Posted by TEP

~:confused:
Is that how it works? I could have sworn that unit upkeep cost is distributed among the cities acording to city size. :dizzy2:

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It is how it works and in my opinion its one of the worse aspects of the City Management function as it prevents proper city and army management.

The total cost of your army is actually divided pro-rata between your cities according to population size. Stupid in my opinion.

My capital brinked 41,000 citizens, and the garrison wasent keeping this Campaigns cities population order high, so it start to drop to about 120%. So I built a Pratoreion cohort garrison among other things, archers, etc, and now the order is 210%. So for you guys that cant keep your order in check, just build these units, their not "that" expensive!

I wont be able to play RTW until not this Friday, but next, have to stay home this weekend & go take the ACT. ~:) But I'll try the waiting it our portion & move accross Europe, should be interesting. ~D

Actually only the number of garrison counts, so peasants (as for purely public order purpose) is 1.5 times more effective than P. cohort. ~:)

And yes, the total cost is divided in proportion of the population. 10,000 pop. city shares 10 times more than a 1,000 pop. town.

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Originally Posted by Maltz

Actually only the number of garrison counts, so peasants (as for purely public order purpose) is 1.5 times more effective than P. cohort. ~:)

And yes, the total cost is divided in proportion of the population. 10,000 pop. city shares 10 times more than a 1,000 pop. town.

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I remember big discussions about this for M:TW. And it was conclusively proven that only numbers count. So, the peasant is the best for garrisoning against unrest.

But, I prefer the Town Watch. It can at least sally against rebels and expect to provide some fight.

Prehaps, but I had a garrison of 161 Hastati from before the Marian reforms, same side, same governor, same buildings, etc. The public order was abour 120%, now with the Preatorian garrison, as it would have been historically, the %'age is much much higher, so I dont belive that.

Wouldnt you be more submissive to the best trained soliders, than the common peasants?!

All those stacks couldn't attack Rome anyway, its limited to what...6 stacks...8?

And it goes by numbers, not quality.