City gates - a right royal pain in the bum

My pet hate at the moment is the city gate system.
Wether I march units through in an orderly fashion, or rush skirmishers through, something in the design turns even crack units into a mob of screaming idiots. Chariots seem to be the worst offenders (General screaming: 'Are you in or are you out, make your damn mind up'). What is it about the fact that one unit seems to bog down on the gate, other more mobile units decide to push through worstening the chaos. Then there are those few guys who decide that the gate is not the best way to get into the city and scrabble at the walls like demented rabbits trying to tunnel through (Skirmisher one: I have a phobia about gates. :dizzy2: Skirmisher 2: Wow, me too.).
My stategy with small towns is a simple one. Move up the ram to batter the gates while archers turn the defenders into mush. Once the defenders have moved away/archers ammo is depleted, send skirmishers in to lead the defenders in a merry dance of death. The proud spearmen march confidently through the gate in normal formation, then reform phalanx and push down the street backed by any remaining missile troops. You would think that simple enough that even a commander with the 'couldn't command his way out of a paper bag' trait would be able to accomplish.
But no.
Some of the remaining defenders decide to rout through the skirmishers on their way back to the square, ignoring the fact that if they went the other way round, they probably wouldn't die (well not just yet anyways). The skirmishers try to rush back out of the gates (skirmishing as they do) whilst the spearmen are entering (Spearmen: *bump*, excuse me!, do you mind!, sorry!, excuse me!, hey stop shoving at the back!, whats the hold up!, would you mind awfully taking that spear out of my groin).
The archers you had remaining in reserve decide that the single remaining gate defender is a good target for a volley of arrows, (General to archer captain: I just thought I'd given you the order to ceasefire, maybe it just took you a whole minute for the message to travel from your ears to your butt, where your brain is located). The defenders suddenly have a change of heart (erm, I thought you said these guys were good, lets get them, cheeaaargeee ). Half the spearmen have their backs turned with question marks above their heads ( ~:confused: he said turn right at the gate, no I'm sure he said left, I thought it was forward two blocks .. then rest, is that the enemy general charging with 200 cavalry, oh sheee). The General is frantically trying to stop the archers releasing another volley of arrows into the mass of spearmen as the cavalry hit ( :furious3: Tell them ceasefire means stop firing! ... what do you mean they don't speak Egyptian?) .
The Elephants decide that this is a good time to run amok and begin to play football with the onager crew (Half time score: Elephants 10, onagers 0). The scythe chariots get fed up waiting to get through and pass the time drag racing through your columns of crack infantry.
The General weeps into his helmet. :surrender:
(this was a compilation of events brought to you by RTW - The return of the pants) ~;)

I only use gate attack as decoy attack. Always try to break the walls to the left and right of the gate - with rams on palisades or with saps/siege engines on walls - and then attack through the gaps with elite troops, while sending all the cannon fodder at the gate where it binds the defenders. Then it's just a matter of sandwiching the enemy from both sides.
I noticed Elephants often run amok right after entering through the gate. Wonder what's the deal with that.

Maybe elephants don't like boiling oil on their backs. I know I don't. Or it could be an elephant form of claustrophobia.
Your multi-entrance approach sounds good. I notice the AI waits several turns and builds multiple rams. I just haven't got the patience sometimes, especially when the enemy has a large stack approaching from the north. I would rather be in the city drinking tea when they get here, rather than face a bunch of starving defenders, pissed off from a year of sitting in a rat infested town 'and' an army of crack troops.
Another thing, in MTW you could surround a city, with RTW you can only place on 3 sides. This gives any re-enforcing troops a great avenue to stroll in through the back door if you aren't quick enough.
On a similar note, I assume sieging a city causes devastation and squalor within (it does when I am seig-ed). Is this enough to make the city rebel?, and if so would the defenders suddenly be popped out into the open arms of my army.
:book:

As for elephants: I noticed them getting wild even if there are no defenders on the walls anymore. Even if the gate tower is ruined by onager fire. It wouldn't be weird otherwise. And the amok doesn't last very long... just enough to ruin your chances of getting into the city in an orderly fashion :)
The spy sitting in a city is supposed to open the gates for you if you're lucky... but somehow, it never happened to me, even if I had 50% chance of it happen. I don't even know how it looks like when he does that...
One thing I found very annoying about sieging: if you auto-resolve the siege, the buildings inside get randomly damaged. Even if you're not carrying any siege weapons, and even if it's farms and roads that get damaged. That is a damn bug if I've ever seen one!

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Originally Posted by eadingas

The spy sitting in a city is supposed to open the gates for you if you're lucky... but somehow, it never happened to me, even if I had 50% chance of it happen. I don't even know how it looks like when he does that...

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It even happens when it's only a 35 or 40 % chance. It may not work on the first turn, though. Visually it's indicated by an open gate (middle right), displayed on the pre-battle screen where you decide which siege-gear you're building. Sometimes the gates only get opened on the second turn, i.e. you have already build rams etc. and decide to attack, only to discover that now the gates are open. On the battle-map you'll see that all four gates are cracked and you can march right in. The huge advantage is that the AI will try to defend all 4 gates.
@rebelscum,
I had a lot of fun reading your post. I've been there. Others already mentioned it, you need to build more than one ram. For wooden walls I ususally build 3 rams. One for the gate, the other two on the right and left side of the gate. For larger walls I like sap points, towers and ladders. Rams are cheap and if you bring enough troops (10+ units), they should be able to build 3 in 1 turn.

R'as

:book: *Reads from The Zen guide to RTW Generalship*
Elephants also continue to run amok if they have run amok during a previous battle and you haven't had the heart to put them down with your generals special ability, kill elephants running amok (soon to be included generals special ability: kill that bloody bloke on the scythe chariot who decimates my armies for no apparent reason). So correct deployment of amok elephants must be considered before the battle. Next to crack infantry is a no-no, behind you is definitely out :embarassed: , behind enemy lines would be good but sadly not an option, loading them into onagers and flinging them over the walls at the enemy would be ace :thumbsup: (*legionary shades eyes to the sun* Hey Spurius, is it my imagination or does that large dark blob flying towards us look curiously like an amok elephant? *mad elephant trumpets in the air*, by the breasts of Juno your right Lentulus, it does look curiously like an amok eleph .. *splat*).
:book: Elephants are expensive, if you cannot train them and were awarded them/merced them they are priceless), so having to 'put them down' is a bit harsh, a severe telling off and a cut in peanut rations would suffice.

Hmmm I'm beginning to think a Monty Python Mod would be a good idea... with siege towers in the shape of giant rabbit, and onager missiles looking remarkably like cows...

Run away! Run away!
~:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

My pet hate at the moment is the city gate system.
....... The General weeps into his helmet.
(this was a compilation of events brought to you by RTW - The return of the pants) ~;)

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Very funny :LOL: The only problem is that its all too true. I never assault gates, I always knock down the walls with onagers or sap them.

Quote:

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Posted by eadingas:
Hmmm I'm beginning to think a Monty Python Mod would be a good idea... with siege towers in the shape of giant rabbit, and onager missiles looking remarkably like cows...

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Don't forget to replace the background music/opening speech with insults in an outrageous French accent!

Definitely open multiple holes, not too far apart so that you can support both going through the walls. The AI will move units as you enter, sometimes not exactly in a tactically sound manner, but you don't want to have one "beachhead" overrun/crushed. Whichever one the AI goes after, use the other hole to come in behind them.

I think if you set the unit formation to be long/thin, they get through the breaches easier, as long as you stagger the units so they don't show up all at the same time. If they all go at once (especially with horses and other pushy types) it gets pretty messy. Anybody know for sure the best entry formation?

Quote:

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Hmmm I'm beginning to think a Monty Python Mod would be a good idea... with siege towers in the shape of giant rabbit, and onager missiles looking remarkably like cows...

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Hehe......give some generals the special ability of making one of their gods feet squash the enemy.....or get the special highland kamikaze squad to attack them.

The Life of Brian would be more appropriate.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cave...0/lifebrin.txt

My fave bit.

[trumpets]
PONTIUS PILATE: ...Make one large living awea. Ahh.
CENTURION: Hail Caesar.
PILATE: Hail.
CENTURION: Only one survivor, sir.
PILATE: Ah. Thwow him to the floor.
CENTURION: What, sir?
PILATE: Thwow him to the floor.
CENTURION: Ah.
[whump]
BRIAN: Aagh!
PILATE: Hmm. Now, what is your name, Jew?
BRIAN: 'Brian', sir.
PILATE: 'Bwian', eh?
BRIAN: No, no. 'Brian'.
[slap]
Aah!
PILATE: Hoo hoo hoo ho. The little wascal has spiwit.
CENTURION: Has what, sir?
PILATE: Spiwit.
CENTURION: Yes. He did, sir.
PILATE: No, no. Spiwit, siw. Um, bwavado. A touch of dewwing-do.
CENTURION: Oh. Ahh, about eleven, sir.
PILATE: So, you dare to waid us.
BRIAN: To what, sir?
PILATE: Stwike him, Centuwion, vewy woughly!
[slap]
BRIAN: Aaah!
CENTURION: Oh, and, uh, throw him to the floor, sir?
PILATE: What?
CENTURION: Thwow him to the floor again, sir?
PILATE: Oh, yes. Thwow him to the floor, please.
BRIAN: Aah!
[whump]
PILATE: Now, Jewish wapscallion.
BRIAN: I'm not Jewish. I'm a Roman.
PILATE: A Woman?
BRIAN: No, no. Roman.
[slap]
Aah!
PILATE: So, your father was a Woman. Who was he?
BRIAN: He was a centurion in the Jerusalem Garrisons.
PILATE: Weally? What was his name?
BRIAN: 'Nortius Maximus'.
CENTURION: Ahh, ha ha!
PILATE: Centuwion, do we have anyone of that name in the gawwison?
CENTURION: Well, no, sir.
PILATE: Well, you sound vewy sure. Have you checked?
CENTURION: Well, no, sir. Umm, I think it's a joke, sir,... like, uh,
'Sillius Soddus' or... 'Biggus Dickus', sir.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: What's so... funny about 'Biggus Dickus'?
CENTURION: Well, it's a joke name, sir.
PILATE: I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called 'Biggus Dickus'.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in
gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.
BRIAN: Can I go now, sir?
[slap]
Aaah! Eh.
PILATE: Wait till Biggus Dickus hears of this.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: Wight! Take him away!
CENTURION: Oh, sir, he-- he only--
PILATE: No, no. I want him fighting wabid, wild animals within a week.
CENTURION: Yes, sir. Come on, you.
GUARD #4: Ha ha haa ha, ha ha ha. Hooo hooo hoo hoo. Hoo hoo...
PILATE: I will not have my fwiends widiculed by the common soldiewy. Anybody
else feel like a little... giggle... when I mention my fwiend... Biggus...
GUARD #1: [chuckling]
PILATE: ...Dickus?
GUARD #1: [chuckling]
PILATE: What about you? Do you find it... wisible... when I say the name...
'Biggus'...
GUARD #3: [chuckle]
PILATE: ...'Dickus'?
GUARD #1 and GUARD #2: [chuckling]
PILATE: He has a wife, you know. You know what she's called? She's
called... 'Incontinentia'. 'Incontinentia Buttocks'.
GUARDS: [laughing]
PILATE: Stop! What is all this?
GUARDS: Ha, ha ha ha ha ha...
PILATE: I've had enough of this wowdy webel sniggewing behaviour. Silence!
Call yourselves Pwaetowian guards? You're not-- Seize him! Seize him!
Blow your noses and seize him!

Thats why they call those snake paths.

Anytime you siege you want atleast 3 times the number of the enemy. Second you want mutiple Breaches. without them you will loose more men and the enemy can bottleneck you.

I found it you have a mod or fix the hardy heat bugs and then played as they would back then in tactics you will do well. If you play like an RTS and just build and rush you will lose men and possible get AI path issue which will result in maybe you losing a possible overwelming win.

Lt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

The Life of Brian would be more appropriate.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cave...0/lifebrin.txt

My fave bit.

[trumpets]
PONTIUS PILATE: ...Make one large living awea. Ahh.
CENTURION: Hail Caesar.
PILATE: Hail.
CENTURION: Only one survivor, sir.
PILATE: Ah. Thwow him to the floor.
CENTURION: What, sir?
PILATE: Thwow him to the floor.
CENTURION: Ah.
[whump]
BRIAN: Aagh!
PILATE: Hmm. Now, what is your name, Jew?
BRIAN: 'Brian', sir.
PILATE: 'Bwian', eh?
BRIAN: No, no. 'Brian'.
[slap]
Aah!
PILATE: Hoo hoo hoo ho. The little wascal has spiwit.
CENTURION: Has what, sir?
PILATE: Spiwit.
CENTURION: Yes. He did, sir.
PILATE: No, no. Spiwit, siw. Um, bwavado. A touch of dewwing-do.
CENTURION: Oh. Ahh, about eleven, sir.
PILATE: So, you dare to waid us.
BRIAN: To what, sir?
PILATE: Stwike him, Centuwion, vewy woughly!
[slap]
BRIAN: Aaah!
CENTURION: Oh, and, uh, throw him to the floor, sir?
PILATE: What?
CENTURION: Thwow him to the floor again, sir?
PILATE: Oh, yes. Thwow him to the floor, please.
BRIAN: Aah!
[whump]
PILATE: Now, Jewish wapscallion.
BRIAN: I'm not Jewish. I'm a Roman.
PILATE: A Woman?
BRIAN: No, no. Roman.
[slap]
Aah!
PILATE: So, your father was a Woman. Who was he?
BRIAN: He was a centurion in the Jerusalem Garrisons.
PILATE: Weally? What was his name?
BRIAN: 'Nortius Maximus'.
CENTURION: Ahh, ha ha!
PILATE: Centuwion, do we have anyone of that name in the gawwison?
CENTURION: Well, no, sir.
PILATE: Well, you sound vewy sure. Have you checked?
CENTURION: Well, no, sir. Umm, I think it's a joke, sir,... like, uh,
'Sillius Soddus' or... 'Biggus Dickus', sir.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: What's so... funny about 'Biggus Dickus'?
CENTURION: Well, it's a joke name, sir.
PILATE: I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called 'Biggus Dickus'.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in
gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.
BRIAN: Can I go now, sir?
[slap]
Aaah! Eh.
PILATE: Wait till Biggus Dickus hears of this.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: Wight! Take him away!
CENTURION: Oh, sir, he-- he only--
PILATE: No, no. I want him fighting wabid, wild animals within a week.
CENTURION: Yes, sir. Come on, you.
GUARD #4: Ha ha haa ha, ha ha ha. Hooo hooo hoo hoo. Hoo hoo...
PILATE: I will not have my fwiends widiculed by the common soldiewy. Anybody
else feel like a little... giggle... when I mention my fwiend... Biggus...
GUARD #1: [chuckling]
PILATE: ...Dickus?
GUARD #1: [chuckling]
PILATE: What about you? Do you find it... wisible... when I say the name...
'Biggus'...
GUARD #3: [chuckle]
PILATE: ...'Dickus'?
GUARD #1 and GUARD #2: [chuckling]
PILATE: He has a wife, you know. You know what she's called? She's
called... 'Incontinentia'. 'Incontinentia Buttocks'.
GUARDS: [laughing]
PILATE: Stop! What is all this?
GUARDS: Ha, ha ha ha ha ha...
PILATE: I've had enough of this wowdy webel sniggewing behaviour. Silence!
Call yourselves Pwaetowian guards? You're not-- Seize him! Seize him!
Blow your noses and seize him!

---

You, sir, have a great sense of humor. Some of the most hilarious stuff I've read on any forum, at any time. :bow:

And yes, the Life of Brian is just classic stuff. My personal preference is the whole 'What have the Romans ever done for us?' sequence. Riotous.

What have the romans ever done for us?. Sounds like a good title for my next post ~:)

What indeed...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

Elephants also continue to run amok if they have run amok during a previous battle and you haven't had the heart to put them down with the generals special ability, kill elephants running amok (soon to be included generals special ability: kill that bloody guy on the sythe chariot who decimates your armies for no apparent reason). So correct deployment of amock elephants must be considered before the battle. Next to crack infantry is a no-no, behind your general is definately out :(, behind enemy lines would be good but sadly not an option, loading them into onagers and flinging them over the walls at the enemy would be ace (Hey Spurius, is it my imagination or does that large shape flying towards us look curiously like an amok elephant, *mad elephant trumpets in the air*, by the breasts of juno your right Lentulus, it does look curiously like an amok eleph .. *splat*). Elephants are expensive (if you can't build them and were awarded them/merced them they are priceless), so having to 'put them down' is a bit harsh, a severe telling off and a cut in peanut rations would suffice.

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Man, that was funny. I'm in tears. I particularly like the "by the breasts of Juno" reference.

The posts in this topic are hilarious....especially the first one.

'it does look curiously like an amok eleph .. *splat*'

Getting into city gates is no longer my pet hate.
This has been replaced by another annoying thing, this time so much to the human players benefit.
Playing Egypt on Huge/VH/VH, I have now got used to being sieged by the Seleucids. They seem to round up every able spearman they can find and attack my large town Damascus. As soon as they siege I sally, but I stay in my town, and group all non missile troops in the middle. I place my archers stategicly around the place, bowmen, chariots and bedouin archers. Now if the AI had any semblance of a brain, it would think twice before attacking (Lt. Erm General sir, if we go near the walls without any seige equipment or countermeasures against the archers, we are going to get our arses shot off. Gen: Never mind that, I have a cunning plan.)
But more often than not, the opposing general moves all his troops towards the town. On occasion they have just stood out of range looking aggressive. All I then do is send some skirmishers out a side gate, which usually gets their interest. Lo and behold the spearmen march straight up to the fence and stand there. I sit back and listen to the sweet music of arrows wishing over the fence. The slow moving pikemen are soon cut to pieces. Even when a unit is down to its last few men, it never budges. This saddens me so much to think that such a great game is spoilt by such a silly AI.
(Lt: So what was your cunning plan general? Gen: Oh why don't you sod off!)
1232 - 0 was the last score. I'm glad to see in the enemys next stack they actually have some archers.
:embarassed:

ROFLMAO :laugh: :laugh: :laugh4: :laugh4: ~:thumb:

I'm going to look out for the name rebelscum when I look through these forums.
This thread is sooo funny. Thanks! ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar

Hehe......give some generals the special ability of making one of their gods feet squash the enemy.....or get the special highland kamikaze squad to attack them.

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Could we have the slingers commander have a shout: 'Nobody gets to stone anyone until I blow this whistle!' ?

Maybe that would stop slingers standing in front of the closed gates trying to throw stones through it at the guys on the other side. (*pock pock pock* ,reload, *pock pock pock*. Keep it up lads, another million throws and we'll have these gates down) :embarassed:

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Originally Posted by drone

...Definitely open multiple holes...

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GAH!

Vanya sez... Penetrating multiple holes is what the game is all about! Three per edifice/object has a nice, practical ring to it... One from the front, one from the rear and finish it off up high!

:charge:

GAH!

I have been quoted by Vanya, not really sure I can top this honor! ~D

This thread has gone funny. Almost like the roman roads thread, which believe it or not did start off serious. Last time i checked, we were discussing the issue of whether or not the romans should have destroyed all life on earth through lead poisoning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

(Lt: So what was your cunning plan general? Gen: Oh why don't you sod off!)
:embarassed:

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ROFLMAO!

~:cheers: Rebelscum,

Thank you for two of the most hilarious posts I've ever read in a gaming forum.

That scene in The Life of Brian is one of the funniest ever, IMO. Watching those two poor Roman guards inhaling their faces, trying SO hard not to laugh ...

Anyway, back on topic (HA!).

To set the stage, my usual approach to taking wooden walls is to drive up with at least 4 archer-types and use them to keep the defenders' heads down while my boys ram the gates and walls on either side open. (Depends on the layout. I never go through a gate that doesn't lead to the city center. I got tired of playing "Where in Antioch is Carmanus Sandiegotus?")

So, as Parthia I've been fighting the Selucids for 25 years or more and come to a city defended by about 600 men. I have my best siege general leading 2000 men. I have 3 Creatan Archers and 2 regular archers, 6 Spearbaras and my general's cav.

I set up, my spears make 2 breeches and bash the gate in. My archers keep their riffraff cav and foot away. I send in three spears inside the walls, line up the next three for follow-on through the breeches. Put my general ready to go through the gates and ...

:help:ELEPHANTS! Aaaaaah! OK, OK. Don't panic. I yank my spears out ... I SAID I YANK my SPEARS OUT! ("What do you mean you've never seen elephants before and want to have a look?")

I YANK *tRumpET* my *squish* spears *trample, toss* out ("Funny, didn't know their feet were grey.") and set my archers to use flaming arrows.

YES! Victory! The elephants are running amok! YEAH! ("What did you say? They're running WHERE!?") RIGHT out the front gate. THRU 2 units of veteran Spearbaras, THRU my general's cav and then they start playing Archer Speedball.

Half of my archers were trampled by the time it was over. Heck, half my troops were dead. We took the city and closed all the gates and huddled together inside, just hoping the elephants would go away. Which they did after 20 minutes. (NO, I DON'T know why the timer didn't expire. I have NO idea.)

Hope this makes you feel a bit better.


Too much is never enough,
V'ger gone

Quote:

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Originally Posted by V'ger

~:YES! Victory! The elephants are running amok! YEAH! ("What did you say? They're running WHERE!?") RIGHT out the front gate. THRU 2 units of veteran Spearbaras, THRU my general's cav and then they start playing Archer Speedball.

Half of my archers were trampled by the time it was over. Heck, half my troops were dead. We took the city and closed all the gates and huddled together inside, just hoping the elephants would go away. Which they did after 20 minutes. (NO, I DON'T know why the timer didn't expire. I have NO idea.)

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*grins*
Maybe it would be a good idea to make a separate entrance/exit just for the elephants. Some sort of 'amok fallback plan' is definitely needed.

Rebelscum,

Yes. All cities should have an "elephants only" entrance with its own path to and from the city square.

Elephants are rather binary, don't you think? I.e. you're either deliriously happy or completely paniced and terrified that they're there. And it isn't much of a factor whether they're yours or not, though having them does push it a bit towards happy.

I feel like a kid with a hot stove. I just can't help myself. I have to have elephants, even though I keep getting burned. I have the ridiculous hope that somehow I'll learn how to make candy.

I just had this wonderful little battle where I got some enemy spears turned away and sent my elephants crashing into their backsides twice. (Two separate units.) OH so much FUN.

Now, of course, I'll probably have some elephantine disaster where they trample my general and his hareem.

Speaking of gates, do you find your armies being completely buggered by cities with stone walls? Even with the best of luck (I won't say skill) I'm happy to have half my army emerge from the rubble. Many times I'm relieved just to have taken the city.

It's like there's this special secret command that all my troops hear "OK, now, you were ordered to the breech, please mill about outside for a bit then run the wrong way through the breech each time you're given an order. Oh and BTW, if you see any other guys in our army go by, TRIP them."

It's as if someone sprinkled extra retarded dust all over them. Not to mention it seems like the enemy fights with the strength of ten, helping to keep things pluged up.


Venting is good for the soul :furious3:
V'ger gone

Haha, ok now I have moved along far enough to attack cites with stone walls. Forget gates, the siege tower is now the most annoying way to get into a city. (*CG booming voice* Your siege towers have reached the walls. Me: Oh crap, not again) What a kerfuffle, ok .. ok, on the first try I tried to get all and sundry up there, dogs, incendiary pigs, cavalry. After a while I managed to work out that the units who could actually climb a ladder must have no more than two legs. As well as that, trying to get more than one unit up at a time makes the operation a complete mess.
Spearman: Hey you, Mr. Pushinfront , what unit are you in?
Skirmisher: Erm .. 82nd light inf, why?
Spearman: Well this is the 45th heavy inf tower bud .. you want the tower two walls down where the fighting is!
Skirmisher: Can't I just use this one?
Spearman: No ... bugger off 'dead meat'. :skull:
Other things I have spotted. When part of unit has reached the battlements and is enganged in fighting, if they are killed off quickly, the rest of the said unit gets an acute attack of ladderitis, and you have to re-issue the attack command.
Spearman: We've taken a straw poll and we've decided were not going up there, no bloody way!
Centurion: You lot get up there now or I'll have your guts for garters!

Spearmen: :gossip:
Do we have to take this crap?
Yeah, I left my nice farm in Masillia to go trapsing half way round the Roman empire, and for what, constant verbal abuse.
I agree its just not on.
Try some of this wine, its lovely.
Thank you very much, *sips* mmmm, it is nice.
Centurion: *slaps face with fingers spread*

I have also discovered that if you issue orders for a unit that is partly in the city, i.e on the battlements, to move further into the city, you sometimes find that they get extremely confused ~:confused: . In one case I had 50 men clinging to the side of the walls inside the city being hammered by cavalry. Some of the others were standing around at the bottom of the siege tower, one or two on the battlements, and a few stragglers were wandering round the walls outside the city (Stragler: dum de dum, :thinking2: wonder if they'll notice I've buggered off, now all I need is a handy bush to hide behind, bah someones pooped there, hmm maybe I'll try a rock)
So concluding, it should be one unit going up a seige tower at a time, reach battlements, fight till cleared, all of the unit are up, then run down tower stairs, form up and push for the middle.
I think.

Quote:

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if they are killed off quickly, the rest of the said unit gets an acute attack of ladderitis

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That's damn annoying!! That's happened to me before, until the people on the ground just stay there, as if their sandals have melted and stuck to the ground. Even when the enemy starts clambering down the ladders (why do they do that? They're trying to defend the city, not abandon it) my men just stand there and get slaughtered.

10 Reasons for defenders climbing down ladders:
1. They are deserters.
2. Haven't seen a ladder before and would like to try it out.
3. Happy hour just started at the local pub.
4. Just following orders sir!
5. Vertigo (I gotta get down, please let me get down, pleeeeze)
6. Just for fun (Wheeeeee. You gotta try this out guys)
7. Got bored waiting for the enemy.
8. Down is the new up.
9. Simon says.
10. I'm telling you its a shortcut, now stop wingeing.
Good spot Mikeus.
:bow:

Quote:

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5. Vertigo (I gotta get down, please let me get down, pleeeeze)

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Usually when that happens, they just jump off the walls instead. Sometimes they all turn into lemmings, so entire archer units jump off at the beginnings of battles.

Mercenary lemmings, available for hire in any province that has cliffs. ~:)

Rebelscum, you should be a comedian.

My most hated thing in RTW is... ONAGERS.

I mean come on, it isnt rocket science to figure out how to make a rock go 20 meters into the wall of an enemy city...

My favorite incedence seige with onagers went some thing like this... *Me Carthage... Them Egypt*

General: Ok men, that the seige towers to the walls!
Tower 1: HEEV... HOOO... HEEV... HOO.. WTF? Why is it on fire? *AHHHHH*
Tower 2: Heay... quit moveing the tower, and watch the other tower burn to the gound... lets all point fingers and laugh...
General: I'm comanding idoits. Ok ONAGERS OPENFIRE!!!
Onager crew: Ok boss...
*CABOOO*
General: NO!!! NOT OUR MEN!!!
*bye now the Egyptians are laguphing their arses off at the fact I had just shelled my own men...*
General: Ok Ragnar the Clumsey...try and hit THE WALL
Ragnar: Yes sir... Ok Hagar the Horible aim... take aim.
Hagar: *cross eyed* right away sirs... Dam I wish the wall would stop moveing...

Morel of the story... Make sure your men can count their toes on their finders while blinking and breathing at the same time...

In 7th grade, their was always an ancient history fair. Me and a buch of my friends looked up how to build a trebuchet so we built one for our project. No one thouhght it would work, sicne it has the swiging rope and doesnt look like normal catapult. Well, our first tennis ball went no where, it stayed in the puch. So we loosened the puch. We had jsut tied it wrong, but everyone was laughing(we were all cruel in 7th grade). Well i the second one went straight up, so we adjusted the rope, it went backwards, we legthened it, because that makes it go further(We had shotened it before). Eventually we got it going really far and some people atually thought it was pretty neat. WE had put out rope designating our lane of fire. The stupid principle didnt think we could launch it thta far and was standing talking in our lane of fire. We fired one more time semi hoping to hit him. CAll it luck or whatever it hit the principle in the head.

Morale of the story, once youve praactised a little it really not very hard to hit even a skinny jerk princicple, it should be easy enough to hit a 100 foot wall that stretches for another 200 feet. Trebuchets were probable harder to aim than an onager anyways. Too much lead in the Romans water a guess.

I can't remember the last time I actually assaulted a city i was besieging. The entire process reduces me to a broken man every time. It takes SOOO long to get even a few troops inside the city, and negotiating the city streets is a pain in the arse. Much easier to wait for the army to starve or, even better, for them to send a full stack to break the siege. You can sit on the defensive, decimate both armies (hopefully), and take the city.

The battle timer is a pain in sieges. I like using saps most in sieges, but I have to make two attempts at assaulting - in first battle I sap the walls, in second I charge, because otherwise I don't have enough time...

Anybody wishing to build and test out an onager by firing it at their enemy (tax office, bosses house, school etc etc), can find all they need to know in this handy book.
The Art of the Catapult: Build Greek Ballistae, Roman Onagers, English Trebuchets, and More Ancient Artillery
http://www.campusi.com/isbn_1556525265.htm
It's a good read, I give it five FTFOTS (firey things flying out of the sky) out of ten on the AWOMDB (ancient weapons of mass destruction books) scale.

:book:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eadingas

The battle timer is a pain in sieges. I like using saps most in sieges, but I have to make two attempts at assaulting - in first battle I sap the walls, in second I charge, because otherwise I don't have enough time...

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I'm sure this has something to do with the total number of units in the battle. As I play with huge unit size, I normally take a full stack. I wonder if you tried pad out your stack with peasants you might have enough time to do both in the one go.
[Handy tip]
If you are a fan of suicidal peasant rushes as I am, send a spy into the city to open the gates, and rush the peasants through them to soak up the boiling oil, a sort of human oilcloth so to speak. I don't know if there is a limit to the amount of boiling oil those gates produce, but I like watching helpless peasantry running around on fire anyway. One thousand peasant lives for a few minutes of distraction while my crack troops climb the wall is a good trade off in any case. See 'Sadistically Evil Genius Generals Handbook' Chapter 4 'How to win a battle with as much bloodshed as possible'
(No this book doesn't actually exist, before people start posting me asking for a copy ~;) )

Yeah, I used the 'spy opens the gates' trick. Once. It was fun.
After a quickload, I told my spy to buzz off, and proceeded with the usual sapping and ladders business.

General: Right which one of you slackers left the gate open?
Guard 1: Wasn't me boss.
Guard 2: Not me boss.
Guard 3: It fassent meh bhass.
General: And I thought I ordered two man teams to guard the gate, don't you plebs ever listen! ... Oy you guard #3 in the cloak, come back ere.
~;)

The first time i put a spy in a city, i was expecting him to open the gates for me. The following battle went something like this:

General: Alright men!! Charge to the gates, and they shall open for you!!!
Soldiers: Erm...okay.
*soldiers run to the gate, avoiding kamikaze lemming archers on the way*
Soldier 1: I wonder what those pipes above the gate are for?
Soldier 2: Maybe we can find out once we've plundered and pillaged and got drunk!!
soldier 1: Okay then, but i have another question. Isn't that boiling hot oil coming out of the pipes?
Soldier 2: Nah, they're probably welcoming us with a wonderful fragranced bath, full of healthy lead.
soldier 1: Well if you s-*they run under the oil*-AAAAAAARGH!!! IT BURNS!!!!! Damn my AI incompetence!!! *dies*
soldier 2: Hey look, here comes our suicidal extra general!!! No general, don't run into the oil!!!
*nearby scream as general is incinerated*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lt1956

Thats why they call those snake paths.

Anytime you siege you want atleast 3 times the number of the enemy. Second you want mutiple Breaches. without them you will loose more men and the enemy can bottleneck you.

I found it you have a mod or fix the hardy heat bugs and then played as they would back then in tactics you will do well. If you play like an RTS and just build and rush you will lose men and possible get AI path issue which will result in maybe you losing a possible overwelming win.

Lt

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Errr... Huh? "hardy heat bugs"?

I suppose there's a link somewhere? Help? Please?

:surrender:

What! You mean to say you've never heard of 'hardy heat bugs'! Where have you been man, the moon?
~;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

What! You mean to say you've never heard of 'hardy heat bugs'! Where have you been man, the moon?
~;)

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Now, really... If you bother to post, why not post the answer... How rude!
:furious3:

Or, could it be that you have no idea what I'm talking about? Hmm?

My assaults on cities have very, very often degenerated into the utter destruction of the thin line of sanity between me and the incomprehensible rage that dominates most of my brain. If there's no-one in the house, such roars of utter hatred and contempt of the AI programmers life emanate from within my home that even a Khornate Daemon Prince would be cowed.

When I order a line of men outside the plaza in preparation for a charge is the worst. Maybe my computer is sentient and hates me. Or more likely, the people in charge of the AI need to be horrifically brutalised, and airdropped directly on the South Pole from ten thousand feet up with lead shoes. But either way I have caused the small children outside to stop their game of football in shock when my barbaric roar comes out the window because my guys have decided it would be a fantastic idea to simply march straight past where they're meant to be, a place still a bright cheery yellow so they know they're meant to be there, and just wander into the plaza. Usually immediately provoking a massive charge from the defenders with all sorts of infantry and cavalry. Having had heavy casualties forced upon me by the unreasoning worthlessness of the AI, I then get to order a full attack and watch as the pathfinding seems to consider the plaza as unbreachable except by very specific areas, so they all run off whilst getting murdered.

ROFLMFAO !
I just woke the whole neighbourhood... this thread is CRACKING ME UP !

You said it, I liked the part about three guards at the gates the most ~:cheers:

A wise man never enters a city through its gate, even if it is conveniently open.

Tzu Sun (well he would have said it, if he had played RTW)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cornflower

Now, really... If you bother to post, why not post the answer... How rude!
:furious3:

Or, could it be that you have no idea what I'm talking about? Hmm?

---

Didn't you detect the hint of sarcasm in my tone. I haven't heard of 'hardy heat bugs' either, hence the joke. ~:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Khorak

My assaults
..
pathfinding seems to consider the plaza as unbreachable except by very specific areas, so they all run off whilst getting murdered.

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Yes the pathfinding is dire. Ok so maybe ordering your whole army to run to the centre of the city is a bit much. But even if you set waypoints, more often than not the units go into confused mode.

Ok here is another niggle. When I have breached the walls I would like one unit to climb up the nearest tower and silence it. Now this only seems to work with the towers next to the gates. On one occasion I had made a hole in the far right hand corner of the city, ordered my troops in unopposed. Then I tried to get a unit up to silence the next tower. They just stood there being shot at and would not climb up onto the battlement, they weren't in skirmish mode either. So all I can think of is that they were just plain idle.
(General: Ok men, we're in, you skirmishers take the tower and run on to take the gate.
Idle skirmisher: *pushes someone forward* Go on then, you first.
Pushed skirmisher: Not me, I've got a sore foot.
General: Get moving, take that damn tower they are shooting at my bodyguard.
Idle Skirmisher: Does he have to shout?
Random skirmisher: Yes I'm getting a bit sick of that myself, lets ignore him completely.
General *arrow pings off helmet*: Bloody hell, move it you dogs!
Idle skirmisher: *pushes someone else forward* Better do as he says.
Pushed skirmisher: Gerroff, I'm knackered.
Genreal: *Clutches at arrow in chest* urghhhhhh!
Idle skirmisher: Couldn't have happened to a better person. Right lads, who's for a beer.
Skirmishers together: Beer .. beer .. beer.)

:duel:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

Didn't you detect the hint of sarcasm in my tone. I haven't heard of 'hardy heat bugs' either, hence the joke. ~:)

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Well... I wasn't really sure, so I was kinda semi-sarcastic back at ya. Nevermind. Just ignore me until I go away. ~D

The hardiness/heat bug is the bug that causes supposedly hardy units to tire more quickly than ordinary peasants, and supposedly heat-prone units to tire less quickly in heat than supposedly heat-resistant ones.

-Simetrical

Thanks for clearing that up! I thought they were some sort of alien life form that had invaded RTW! I was going to set the wardogs on them! ~;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simetrical

The hardiness/heat bug is the bug that causes supposedly hardy units to tire more quickly than ordinary peasants, and supposedly heat-prone units to tire less quickly in heat than supposedly heat-resistant ones.

-Simetrical

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Right. Now, how to fix this?

:duel:

Search me, I suppse we wait till mid January for the patch then start moaning again straight afterwards. ~D

Well its a year since I first bought the game, and nothing much has changed. A patch or two later and were at the first expansion.
This is my first post in 6 months, anyone still here?
Has anyone seen my Diary of a Diplomat post. I think some genius moved it to a story forum. Tat was my Opus magna so if anyone knows where it is let me know,
cheers,
RS :book:

The thing I miss most about M:TW is the trebuchet. Threads like this remind me.

And Jihads. Forgot Jihads.

LOL rebelscum, this is great stuff. ~D

I have a simmering spot of red hot hatred for each of these points you mentioned too. Especially the waiting-game all units seem to have to enter open door-towers who are perfectly well straight in front of them. Now, if the weather was especially wonderfull, and no lifethreatening objects were flying through the sky and men would be reluctant to enter clammy damp towers, and there wasn't any particular battle to be won, I could imagine idling on the courtyard.

General: YOU there, into the tower! on the double!
Soldier 1: He's meaning us, I'll tell ya
Sarge: Right, you heared him! Get moving.
Soldier 1: Shee, yep it's us allright. There's a complete army allready standing here and guess who get to climb that mother. Us again.
Soldier 2: Aint that the truth..
Sarge: Quit talking and start those legs or I'll have you thrown of the wall!
Soldier 1: No, we won't. We like it out here.
Sarge: You WHAT?
Soldier 1: Like I said, we like it out here. We aint gonna climb no stupid towers just to get some lone archer and change the flag! Why allways do what you or that pimped up noisy dude want? We allways have to do these stupid sightseeing things. We come to a strange land, you pratically dragged us across godforsaken desert for years, from stinking town to a hell of boatride I certainly do not wish to repeat! I mean who the hell has to pull his own oars?! And then we get here, we got to do these stupid things like running up musty towers! And when we get there? what then, get back down on the double I presume?! No siree, not this time, you wanna enjoy the sight of these walls, climb 'em yourself you you you frog-faced loud-mouth
Soldier 2: Yeah.
Sarge: *speechlessly balancing between utter confusion and malignious anger*
Soldier 1: And one other thing, you tell this chap of yours, you know, with the silly helmet with all the red fluffy stuff coming out of it that we don't wanna pull the lead anymore. Sure we'd like to travel. That's what the ad said 'come conquer with us, be a man, see the world, slap a barbarian once or twice'. Well, that slapping has been quite reciprocal I must say. So if you and mister Funny dude here wanne get somewhere pronto, go ahead! We'll catch up, no need to worry about us! See how you like it, prodding barbarians out of muddy huts. Aint no stick long enough for that!
Soldier 2: Sure isn't.
Sarge: Okay, let's be democratic, I've been in Rome, I know the works.. Listen you two slime: if you two don't get up there first, with all our troops halfway now, there's gonna be a vote: who of you two get to be next to deliver the declaration of end-of-friendly-proceedings to the next of sorry ass barbarian scum. So, any volunteers?
Soldier1: Oh you mean thát tower?
Soldier2: that's not high at all..
Soldier1: *Hurrying off with nr 2* I told ya that tower was easy, I bet the view from there is fantastic! Imagine! all the dust clouds we can see on the horizon! Hey you lot, get out of our way, no time to hesitate here, are we the only hero's here? bugger off! Caius, clear us a path!
Soldier2: You bet!

Lol, thanks guys, i knew re-posting was worth it!

havent seen you around for an long time ~D

I like attacking to the right of the main gate since pushing through the wall gets you a nearly direct path to the center of large cities.

The only problem is all the troops seem to HAVE to walk under the Arc de Triumph there. I know it is good luck and all but there is a wide avenue over to the left ... we can kill the defenders then come back and walk under the arch. Guys?! ~:confused:

Has anyone seen diary of a diplomat, for the life of me I can't find my post :furious3:
If anyone has seen it, please post the link here.

My, this threat is hilarious. :laugh4:

Actually, there are some references to the Life of Brian in RTW, most obvious is the description of the Judean Zealots (the Judean People´s Front ~D )

There's one as well in the discription of the aquaduct ("What have the Romans ever done for us? This, that's what!" )

Really funny thread indeed. Nice to see you reposted the Diary of a diplomat again, Rebelscum, that's absolutely brilliant! :laugh:

I'm ROFLMAO. I got another one. I just had a bridge battle with the Gauls near Massilia. Half way through the battle I noticed the gaul light inf were moving near the edge of the water, then they started to wade in, waist high then neck high. Then they proceeded to drown in droves.
:thinking2: :thinking2: :thinking2:
This caused a mass panic and they decided to rout, not away from the bridge like you would think, but over it into the waiting arms of my cavalry! :charge: Where they all died to a man, and most ungraciously (*shrugging* and saying things like, mon deu, c'est las vie, je ne compreds pas, etc etc, yes I know my French is crap and yes I know the gauls didn't speak French ~D )
Now I haven't played much since the patch and my last job in London where I was away all day. But surely this never happend post patch, or not that I could remember.
Then when the massacre was over, one of my units heading over the bridge decided to wade in too, I only just caught it before the entire unit was lost. I cursored around for a while looking at the bodies lying at the bottom of the river. :embarassed:
You would have thought the Gauls could swim, they all look like Mark Spitz (for all you young uns, Olympic multi gold medal winning swimmer and Gaul impersonator).
http://jewishsportshalloffame.com/He...Mark_Spitz.gif
Sacre bleu, A gaul if I ever saw one.

Had a battle yesterday evening, the (stupid) numidians attacking Carthage with a zillion libian cavalry and a few skirmisher foot units. I had one slinger unit and a skirmisher myself and of course large walls. So, I finished of the two foot units with missiles and there they stood for the remainder of the day, half a stack of nubian missile cavalry.
Being bored I sallied out with one such unit myself to tease a few to the walls. one or two followed and a returned inside, except one lone cavalier kept riding in circles inside the gatehouse ^%$%^#!
Luckily the enemy didn't follow (not that I fear the head-on charge of light infantry, but anyhow, and I wonder at which level of walls you get the hot oil..) but it kept circling there for minutes, only to come inside after moving the entire unit a few steps further (they allready were at the town square).

Rabied horse?
Rabied rider?

Numidian Libyan cavalry captain: The Gate is left open, attack! This is our chance!
cavalrist1: No way dude, that horse is foaming, frothing from the mouth. No way I get near that beast. Haven't had my shots, my mother never gave permission for the vaccin, she's got some religion against needles.
Captain: You idiot! He's foaming because he's been running around in circles all day.
cavalrist2: Looks to me we got ourselves a regular chicken-egg enigma..
Captain: Ehh? What's that?
cavalrist2: well, which was first? Has the circling caused the foaming or is it foaming because of rabies? In which case it must be circling because of rabies and hence it foams. Fascinating dilemma really..
cavalrist3: indeed
cavalrist4-60: *looking puzzled*
cavalrist1: You cannot take too many chances. I'm staying. My health is my most prized possesion.
Captain: I will take that job offer up for saharan camel driver now that I think of it. Nothing wrong with staring to the stars over a camp fire of camel dung.

Rebelscum check the library in the meadhall (the sticky) you ca find it in R of rebelscum

Ah the old 'mead hall library ploy' eh. I must remember that when I want to really annoy someone. :book:
Thanks Stranger, BTW I re-posted DOAD on this forum.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear, during one of my latest battles, both armies suddenly dissapeared apart from their banners.
Zooming closer I could see them, it was sort of like some low lying fog had obscured my view of the army. When I zoomed out again they dissapeared back into the 'fog'. I waited to see what would happen, and I saw the Gauls unit flags continue to approach my army flags and begin to annihalate them by the sound of it. My flags then routed off the battlefield. What fun.

General: Where'd everybody go? Centurion, Centurion, where the hell are you?
Cent: Here sir.
General: Where?
Centurion: I can hear you but I can't see you.
General: Me too .. what happened to the troops?
Centurion: Well they were ahead of me a minute ago just as we started attacking up the hill!
General: Well you better find them and tell them to retreat until we find out whats going on.
*sounds of battle and screaming*
Centurion: Erm, we may be a little late.
*retreat!, retreat!, we are being attacked!, sounds of hundreds of footsteps running past*
General: Centurion .. Centurion.
Centurion: Yes sir.
*sound of Gaulish war cry comes from all around*
General: Were dead.
Centurion: I know sir, sorry sir.
:help:

DOAD???, was that, do you remember me i used to be Emperor Umeu I

DOAD oh yeah i'll check it out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

DOAD???, was that, do you remember me i used to be Emperor Umeu I

---

Didn't you used to be 'symbol' formerly known as Emperor?
~:cheers:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

Didn't you used to be 'symbol' formerly known as Emperor?
~:cheers:

---

I'm really not following this DOAD stuff.. Similar to the onset of sudden fog.

DOAD = diary of a diplomat, look for the post on this forum :dizzy2:

The spy sitting in a city is supposed to open the gates for you if you're lucky... but somehow, it never happened to me, even if I had 50% chance of it happen. I don't even know how it looks like when he does that...

If the spy does not get thrown out on his butt, (mine usually does), just as you begin an assault, and you have the screen to "fight on battle map", or "autoresolve", there will be a picture on the right side of that panel of a stone wall with an open gate, and text telling you that the gates will be open.

Usually, I prefer to put lots of siege towers, at least 6, more if I think to make more during a siege, and put men directly over the gate, even if it is open, which will keep boiling oil out of your collar. Last night, I did it differently, and just charged through the gate, expecting losses, but fortunately for me that time, no boiling oil came down.

Anyway, just look for the "open gate" picture just before you choose how to resolve the battle.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

When deploying at a gate-breaking party, I go in stages. Everything has to be lined up to be deployed properly, though.

-Battering rams (always 3) lined up along one or two sides to best avoid any tower fire. Sometimes you can completly avoid it.

-Behind the battering rams I click and drag my troops to lay out a formation only four rows across (4wide). This allows them to fit through the hole without breaking formation. Velities and Light Aux come first (to break up any defenders), then Aux (to break the inevitable horse charge), then hastati/Early Legion followed by any Legionary Cohorts in the rear.

-The hole furthest from the actual gate is for Aux/Archers/Horses only (again, 4wide). If there are no defenders, the horses go through first to attack the defenders at the other holes from the sides.

-When moving the 4wide formations, once they are at the gate (not through it), click and drag your final formation in the enemy encampment. No one will get hung up if you time it right.

I hereby propose the motion that rebelscum be declared the Org's official resident comedian!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

Didn't you used to be 'symbol' formerly known as Emperor?
~:cheers:

---

alright now i plain english.......cuz i dont understand.

i used to go by the name Emperor Umeu I.....is this one of your jokes Rebelscum ~D ~D cuz your intelectual is far above mine....you know that eh ~D