Rally support for MTW total conversions

given the mediocre reception of RTW there seems a renewed interest from modders in their respective MTW projects, i say HOORAY. i want to see all the great MTW mods continue development to the point where they are polished and stable products.

> NTW is now sorted with v5.05
> HTW seems completed with v3.1+economy patch

> BKB is now done, but we'll see if a mini-patch is necessary based on user feedback
> MTW-XL is merely awaiting a mini-patch before completion
> Fall of Rome needs only a mini-patch

> STW is being revisited with a final version in mind presumably
> Pike and Musket is on its way to a final version
> Medmod4.0 is apparently on its way
> METW is coming along nicely (when do i get a campaign?)

> Reconquista will get a little tidying up if we show enough interest........
> Fury of the Northmen exists in an information vacuum.
> Eastern Promise appears stalled atm sadly..............
> WoT-TW has sadly abandonned MTW for RTW. :(

i'm sure there are many other worthy total conversions that would also benefit from a little final tweakage to knock off any rough edges.

MTW in its various guises could live forever!
show that you care here in this thread. :charge:

PeegeeTips

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Originally Posted by Peregrine_Tergiversate

given the mediocre reception of RTW there seems a renewed interest from modders in their respective MTW projects, i say HOORAY. i want to see all the great MTW mods continue development to the point where they are polished and stable products.

> NTW is now sorted with v5.05
> HTW seems completed with v3.1+economy patch

> BKB is now done, but we'll see if a mini-patch is necessary based on user feedback
> MTW-XL is merely awaiting a mini patch before completion
> Fall of Rome needs only a mini-patch

> STW is being revisited with a final version in mind presumably
> Pike and Musket is on its way to a final version
> Medmod4.0 is apparently on its way

> Reconquista will get a little tidying up if we show enough interest........

> Eastern Promise appears stalled atm sadly..............
> WoT-TW has sadly abandonned MTW for RTW. :(

i'm sure there are many other worthy total conversions that would also benefit from a little final tweakage to knock off any rough edges.

MTW in its various guises could live forever!
show that you care here in this thread. :charge:

PeegeeTips

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I was thinking of downloading XL or medmod, haven't tried any mod yet, but these seem the best to my liking. Bot both aren't completed? I understood that XL was as good as finished? What remains a problem then? Does anyone know?

MTW-XL is more or less complete, but as ever with software, you never find all the bugs until the masses have got their grubby paws on it.

thus you have modders releasing micro-patches for major releases, eg:

NTW v5 > v5.05
Helenic v3.1 > v3.1+economy patch
MTW-XL v2.0 > v2.01 (?)
Fall of Rome v3.0 > v3.1

etc

they can be considered 'finished' when the major release debuts and the final tweaks applied.

hope this helps :)

Certainly, very kind! Think I'll have a go on the XL as soon as I get my hands on a USB memory stick large enough for the small version..

surely people here must have a higher regard for the various modder's labours than appears to be the case?

at a time when MTW mods could fade from active development purely by the existance of RTW it seems appropriate that those who still want to see MTW mods reach perfection should say so................

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Originally Posted by Hold Steady

I was thinking of downloading XL or medmod, haven't tried any mod yet, but these seem the best to my liking. Bot both aren't completed? I understood that XL was as good as finished? What remains a problem then? Does anyone know?

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There are only a few minor bugs, but nothing serious. The only bugs there have been found is a few units units that doesn't get the valor bonus from master level buildings and the province of Nicaea not having access to the black sea.
In the patch I will do some minor tweeking, replace some graphics with better once and write a better info file (this will take a lot of time, it will be huge).
~:cheers:

looking forward to it. :charge:

I certainly plan on trying out a few of the mods, but I haven't had the game long. In fact, I've just "finished" playing all the factions in early (not necessarilly a complete game) and have just begun trying them out in high. Still have to go through Late, then it'll be mod time.

Having done similar work for other games, I can appreciate the time and effort involved in developing these mods. Keep it up, y'all!

lol, agreed. i spent three months solid (four hours a day) making a Ravenshield level in UnrealED! this kind of project is magnitudes greater.

Fall of Rome and BKB's have brought me so much happiness, that I'm thinking of making a third install for NTW.

Now that I think about it, HTW would be nice too...

HTW is excellent fun.

I think its safe to say RTW is the biggest letdown there has been in a long long time, after a week of playing it on and off i went back to MTW no problem, i think MTW is the only game that has come close to matching FFVII as my fave game of all time.

My only problem is theres so many mods out there high quality ones is where to find the time to get into them all lol im just getting used to XL so i think ill wait awhile before i try others.

I am all for supporting modders and there work, and if posting is a means to show encouragement then here it is.

I recently had to repurchase MTW... the last one got damaged, I got the battle pack which came with VI 2.01. Am I current? I cant find any more patches on activisions site.

What I am looking for is a couple of tweeks to make the AI manage its economy better. MedMod was always the one I deferred to, but I am not opposed to trying something new.

However a finished mod is most preferrable I have been keeping an eye on NTW but cant seem to pull myself out of the middle ages.

What mod is reccommended for middle ages, more effiecent AI?

i believe that VH has been tweaking the economic model with the anticipated XL patch.

[edit] i could be mixing this up with BKB's super-late release.......... [/edit]

M:TW is still my staple diet.

And I highly apprieciate the effort of the modding community. ~:cheers:

Keep up the good work - we're still very interested in good mods.

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Originally Posted by Odin

I recently had to repurchase MTW... the last one got damaged, I got the battle pack which came with VI 2.01. Am I current? I cant find any more patches on activisions site.

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Yes, v2.01 is the latest (and only) patch for VI. CA has a history of making only one patch per game.

as long as they get it right.


Maximus - what's happening?
Wilipuri - ^as above^
KoP2 - will anything more happen with Reconquista?
BKB - Eastern Promise looks like it would be ace, so...............

I was thinking about Eastern Promise and if it would be resurrected i would need help especially with unit graphics and other things. So if people would like to see it i would need a great deal of help. ~:cheers:

how much does the Supermod advance your requirement for new unit graphics?

sadly my ability is limited to architecture in UnrealED, but i hope the graphic-artists needed turn up, i know Myrddraal suffered a lack of support with his MTW WoT project.

For factions in the africa interior and the factions in modern day iran and north india would need new unit graphics.

gotcha, cheers. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Peregrine_Tergiversate

i believe that VH has been tweaking the economic model with the anticipated XL patch.

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The XL mod already has a tweaked economic model, the patch will only make some ajustments to it (if needed). ~;)

a little more trade income..........? ~;)

it must have been BKB who mentioned ome recent tuning of the economic model.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Yes, v2.01 is the latest (and only) patch for VI. CA has a history of making only one patch per game.

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Thanks. I played MTW without VI for a long time and loved it. Came home one night a little drunk and stepped on the jewel case and cracked the disc :embarassed:

Anyway the battle pack with VI was only 19.99 a bargain in my estimation so Im back in the fold of playing MTW. Dont have much expirence with mods though, and am monitoring the boards to see which one achieves the following:

1. Smarter AI economy: Not just not going bankrupt, but taking those florins and maximizing troop investment via quality.

2. England: most of the games I have played England gets overrun by the french. I dont have a problem with that, every so often but when your playing in the High period it seems the French just kick the brits A$$.

3. Not so much cut throat: now I dont know if this can be modded, but once the Mongols show up its a pain in the butt garrisoning provinces AND committing to a war with them. Your Allied AI just moves in, whenever your weaker then he. I understand its a reasonble function of the AI to make the game harder for the human, but the net effect weakens you, and the former ally and that defeats the purpose of the alliance.

4. Better trade income: When I play with Russia I usually make livonia and Lithuania priorities and set up ports and merchants. Now I know the support cost for my Boyars are dragging me down, but Im at 80% in land development and am almost to venice in my boat chain. Please dont tell me to reduce my boyars, I cant bring myself to do it ~D

So any mods out there that broach these?

Odin

XL vastly reduces trade income, because the AI wasn't making very good economic use of it.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine_Tergiversate

XL vastly reduces trade income, because the AI wasn't making very good economic use of it.

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Trade is a great way to make cash in MTW, particularly in the Baltic. Those pagan provinces of Pommeranina, Prussia, Livonia, and Lithuania have 2 and 3 trade goods each...

It would be nice to see the AI improve its units quality with the cash, reducing it is a means to an end but when your playing on Expert and only have 4000 florins that supplemental trade income is crucial particularly for Poland, Denmark, and the Russians.

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Originally Posted by Odin

Trade is a great way to make cash in MTW, particularly in the Baltic. Those pagan provinces of Pommeranina, Prussia, Livonia, and Lithuania have 2 and 3 trade goods each...

It would be nice to see the AI improve its units quality with the cash, reducing it is a means to an end but when your playing on Expert and only have 4000 florins that supplemental trade income is crucial particularly for Poland, Denmark, and the Russians.

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The farm income has however been increased by 30%, giving the AI a better economy and making the game more fun IMO. It is still possible to make a good trade income, but not as high as before. The AI has also been tweaked so that it builds better units and no peasants.
The unit morale in my mod has also been increased so that battles are more realistic, but the +5 morale given to AI units on expert makes most units almost fight to the end. I prefer playing on hard, because the AI doesn't get the morale bonus.
~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by VikingHorde

The farm income has however been increased by 30%, giving the AI a better economy and making the game more fun IMO. It is still possible to make a good trade income, but not as high as before. The AI has also been tweaked so that it builds better units and no peasants.
The unit morale in my mod has also been increased so that battles are more realistic, but the +5 morale given to AI units on expert makes most units almost fight to the end. I prefer playing on hard, because the AI doesn't get the morale bonus.
~:cheers:

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Does the AI have a hard time with the different sources of income? Florins are florins to me, but If the AI struggles with getting trade income then nice adjustment ~D

That +5 morale bonus might make the game impossible, at least for me ~D A big part of my strat is to overwhelm units so they break and run them down. If they dont break I am engaged and can be flanked. This is also a nice adjustment probably makes quality ranged units a necessity.

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Originally Posted by VikingHorde

The farm income has however been increased by 30%, giving the AI a better economy and making the game more fun IMO. It is still possible to make a good trade income, but not as high as before. The AI has also been tweaked so that it builds better units and no peasants.
The unit morale in my mod has also been increased so that battles are more realistic, but the +5 morale given to AI units on expert makes most units almost fight to the end. I prefer playing on hard, because the AI doesn't get the morale bonus.
~:cheers:

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sounds ace. any ETA on the patch?

@Odin
Jepp, the AI has problems with trade. Medmod solved it by making the AI build more ships and some other ajustments (I think), but I don't know how well it works. I don't like seabattles because the battles seems random, so I tryed something els. The morale bonus given to the AI is a part of the original game, so it's properly a good idea to play the XL mod on hard were the is no morale bonus.

@Peregrine_Tergiversate
It's a little slow right now because Im also doing some for the Chivalry - total war mod (for RTW). The patch should however be finished by the end of this mounth. :bow:
~:cheers:

good news, cheers.

maximus has just provided an update indicating that the final FoR patch may tip up in a fortnight. ~:cheers:

Took a look at one of my old haunts Gamefaq.com and it seems that the XL mod has been recieved very well.

One poster commented on the increased tactical ability in the XL mod... Maybe Viking horde will see this, did you tweek that? Can it be tweeked?

Thats really the ultimate mod isnt it? Its one thing to understand AI weaknesses with game functions like income generation and tweek values, its quite another to tweek its battle tactical ability.

If true thats pretty impressive, so wouldnt playing the russians in early. ~:)

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Originally Posted by Odin

Took a look at one of my old haunts Gamefaq.com and it seems that the XL mod has been recieved very well.

One poster commented on the increased tactical ability in the XL mod... Maybe Viking horde will see this, did you tweek that? Can it be tweeked?

Thats really the ultimate mod isnt it? Its one thing to understand AI weaknesses with game functions like income generation and tweek values, its quite another to tweek its battle tactical ability.

If true thats pretty impressive, so wouldnt playing the russians in early. ~:)

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I don't think it is possible to increased the tactical ability of the AI by direct tweaking, it most be hardcoded. It's not the first time someone have wrote it, so maybe the AI reacts differently because of the higher morale of the units.
The russians have access to Varangian swordmen and another sword unit, so they are not so bad ~;)

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Originally Posted by VikingHorde

I don't think it is possible to increased the tactical ability of the AI by direct tweaking, it most be hardcoded. It's not the first time someone have wrote it, so maybe the AI reacts differently because of the higher morale of the units.
The russians have access to Varangian swordmen and another sword unit, so they are not so bad ~;)

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I thought it was a bit odd the claim that the AI had been enhanced, its tactical combat ability anyway. Logical conclusion that it would act differently with better troops and higher morale.

Just being able to play Russia in early is worth it to me, I just have a blast playing them. Might be fun to have a look at the baltic area to...

My only issue is the download is 145mb+ with my measley 56k dial up thats a 12 hour download :dizzy2:

However, it looks to be worth as I have only seen positive's on the mod.

I am a little nervous about that trade income reduction though, but I will manage.

Cheers !

Downloaded XL mod, took a whole bloody night !

Anyway... What can I say that hasnt been said already?

Lots of new nations, and the AI does perform better, I think the improved units make this a reality by default, but if you ask me the AI seems to have a bit more moxy, and are not afraid to attack when the odds seem to be even or slightly disadvantagous to them.

One critique is the cost of land improvements. Maybe its hardcoded, but the tax benefit went up 30% the cost should go up as well,however I understand where that might hinder the AI more then the player, minor gripe.

Overall nice mod, really clean start and loading. Im now ingrossed in my Volgar Bulgaria mini empire and will begin bringing Islam to Russia.

Cheers,

Odin

the extra nations do add a lot of fun.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine_Tergiversate

the extra nations do add a lot of fun.

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I agree, being able to play Scotland or Ireland is fun, I dont suspect you will be taking over the world, but still its nice to be able to play these nations and take on the english.

Bohemia is nice, so isnt the Papacy for that matter. The amount of playable factions is definately the draw for me

Cegorachi posted stating that the final/full XVI -XVII mod started testing on monday. :charge:

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Originally Posted by Peregrine_Tergiversate

Cegorachi posted stating that the final/full XVI -XVII mod started testing on monday. :charge:

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Thats cool. I have had some negative expirences (frustrating) with mods in beta stages with other games. I respect and appreciate the modding community they ad so much value to a game, but for me I dont go with mods unless they are tested and the kinks worked out.

The XL mod at version 2.0 is very stable and very well balanced, I dont have many gripes at all with it and am fully immersed in a new campaign with it now. I think this mod has got a good 3-6 month milage for me on it, after that I may take a look at something else, the napelonic mod looks intresting. ~:cool:

nor me, i prefer final and bug-free mods, tho i have installed and been playing Reconquista to provide feedback for Monkwarrior, good fun.

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Originally Posted by Odin

...

One critique is the cost of land improvements. Maybe its hardcoded, but the tax benefit went up 30% the cost should go up as well, however I understand where that might hinder the AI more then the player, minor gripe.

...

Odin

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I disagree. I did not install the XL mod yet (just downloaded the light version), but I do agree with Viking Horde that the trade revenues could be extravagant. Not that that doesn't depict reality, because in those days, It did indeed bring tremendous riches (or could cripple an economy), but if you cán get a trade empire going the way you can with mtw vanilla, there's no stopping you, moneywise. And that is too much a player advantage IMO. Rather increase the land revenues, 'cause the AI doés profit from that, since it will upgrade land income, but does not use intelligent trade networking.
Decreasing trade without increasing land income would be too much and why increase cost to improve land revenue? The AI overall benefits from this, since trade is player oriented..

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Originally Posted by Hold Steady

I disagree. I did not install the XL mod yet (just downloaded the light version), but I do agree with Viking Horde that the trade revenues could be extravagant. Not that that doesn't depict reality, because in those days, It did indeed bring tremendous riches (or could cripple an economy), but if you cán get a trade empire going the way you can with mtw vanilla, there's no stopping you, moneywise. And that is too much a player advantage IMO. Rather increase the land revenues, 'cause the AI doés profit from that, since it will upgrade land income, but does not use intelligent trade networking.
Decreasing trade without increasing land income would be too much and why increase cost to improve land revenue? The AI overall benefits from this, since trade is player oriented..

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I agree 100% on the trade revenue issue benefiting the human. It borders on exploit, given the knowledge that the AI isnt able to create the same conditions. It may well have been realistic in those days to build a trade empire, but we do have the benefit of historical refrence to know that not all nations achieved this.

AS to land improvements, I should have been clearer. I think the human player should have to pay more, simply because instead of trade income (which still exisists btw) we have an increase in land revenue. We have shifted the player exploit (I use this theory loosely, I just dont know how else to say it). If I know land is the primary source of income its going to be a focal point of my province upgrades and decision making when spending florins. I havent seen any evidence the AI shares the same knowledge and potential Zeal for land improvement.

Again, I am no modder, I dont know what sets the priority for the AI in the building que, but it seems to me that increasing the benefit overall and not the cost, in the end benefits both parties (the AI and Human) where the human advantage was already disproportionate to begin with and remains so.

Solution? Is it possible to have higher costs in different provinces? Historically wouldnt some land be harder to upgrade then others? Maybe this is in the mod already, I havent played enough to see it, but its costing me 600 florins for the first upgrade throughout russia. Should the we have the same cost in the desert? Or in the mountains of norway? Can this be modded?

I hate to sound rediculasly nieve but i dont play many computer games at all, in fact i dont know much about computers, but i am really enjoying this game. I was wondering exactly what these 'mod' things are lol im assuming they are modifications to the original game but i was wondering if someone could take 20 seconds to give me a brief overview of what you guys are actually doing with the mods. cheers
deanox

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Originally Posted by deanox

I hate to sound rediculasly nieve but i dont play many computer games at all, in fact i dont know much about computers, but i am really enjoying this game. I was wondering exactly what these 'mod' things are lol im assuming they are modifications to the original game but i was wondering if someone could take 20 seconds to give me a brief overview of what you guys are actually doing with the mods. cheers
deanox

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Hey Deanox,

Yeah, a mod is a modification. Basically you download files from a server on the WWW to your hard drive on your home PC and overwrite exsisting files.

Mods do different things, some change the whole scope of the game (Napeleonic mod) some enhance the current mechanics in the game. The most important thing to remember is you are downloading something from the web that will change files on your PC. Obviously that comes with some risks but I can personally vouch for the XL mod that it wont have a negative impact on your PC.

My personal belief is Mods are best used after you have played the regular version for some time. I would get acclumated to regular MTW first, you will then be better prepared for changes. 9 times out of 10 mods make the game harder for a human player with tweeks to various game mechanics.

Hope that helped.

Odin

I finally took to the plunge into MTW mods this week, so hijacked a mate's broadband for a few hours, and did a mass download of mods - about half a CD ROM full of stuff to play with now....

So far I've loaded up HTW, and I absolutely love it! It's not quite as 'polished' as a commercial game, some spelling errors, some of the strat map graphics are a bit vague, etc, but that's not a problem because the gameplay is excellent. Hats off to the map-maker especially.

My very first battle was a leap into the unknown - rebels next door, no spies/towers. What would I find? I heaped up a few phalanxes with my Tyrant and marched over the mountains, only to be confronted by an enemy blockade in a tight ravine, with little room for maneouvre. My hoplites and skirmishers were on the lower ground, formed into the sparabara formation. We hit them on the oblique, showering them with javelins. Some held their ground, but most of them ran. Our skirmishers, javelins depleted, ran down the fleeing as the Phalanxes encircled the last resistance and ground the enemy into the rocks.... oh dear, I'm off on one again :shame:

But you get the point - this is an excellent mod, great feel to it, battle graphics are superb, and as it's a new era, I really don't know what to expect of the different troops yet, and the tech tree is to be discovered from the bronze age upward. And apart from doing a clean install on MTW/VI, it was pretty much a one-click install once you've browsed for your folder.

I also have NTW, XL, and BKB ready to install, but HTW has me so hooked I haven't slept in three days.....~D

And watching 3000 Illyrian troops turn tail and flee at the mere sight of my army was kind of satisfying.....

Rating: 9/10

I finally decided to try a mod and went for XL since its “just” an add-on, and I’ve read some good things about it. First, allow me to say well done, VH! Now hurry up with the patch. ~;)

I’ve only played (not completed) a couple of XL games, so my experience is very limited. That said, I thought I’d post three observations that seem significant to me.

1) It totally changes strategy. No more land bridges means you need better control of the seas- especially the Brits and Sicilians. The faction guides are no longer gospel. This makes developing new strategies for each faction very interesting/entertaining.

2) No more peasants. This makes things a bit more difficult since the AI can’t spam them for their armies. However, the AI now seems to spam UM instead. A slight tactical change easily overcomes this new difficulty.

3) Revenue from farms is increased 30% (I believe) and trade reduced 30%. I understand the reasoning, but I’m not sure if the desired goal has been reached. In my current game, playing Brits/Early/Hard/GA, I bribed Wales and conquered Scotland within the first few turns. Then I started building farmland in the most profitable provinces and creating a solid army for when France attacked. They didn’t, but began warring with HRE, so I took the opportunity to absorb four provinces into my kingdom. France is now gone. I kept an eye on their farmland development prior to the war. They did build a couple provinces up, but not always the rich ones. That’s the AI for you, I guess. More importantly though, once I secured the land under my flag, I wasted no time building them up to at least 40%. Now I have a huge army, boats all the way to Mid East (where I’m about to launch crusades for GA goals), and I still net 3500+ florins. This is like having a solid trade route, but with two added benefits: I get it sooner, and it is not threatened by war.

Keep in mind that this is only my second game and may be a fluke, but it doesn’t seem to be. Is there any way to allow the farm production to be increased for the AI only? Or maybe just lower the trade revenue, since only humans really use it, and keep farm revenue the same. Can farms be made more expensive/longer to build for the player?

I’ll sit down and shut up now. Please don’t let the income scare you away from this mod. It promises to be very challenging, interesting, etc. Just try starting as a single- and poor-province faction. Like the Irish or Scots. Like I did. And lost.

Let me just pipe up with my general support for the modders in this community. Just when I think I have had my fill of MTW, out come new factions, new units, AI improvments, etc. Going on 2.5 years with this game now, that rivals Civ2 shelf-life.

I haven't tried my hand at modding, but I can only imagine how much work goes into these...and we get them for free. Much appreciation modders!!!!

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Originally Posted by TwinMfg

3) Revenue from farms is increased 30% (I believe) and trade reduced 30%. I understand the reasoning, but I’m not sure if the desired goal has been reached. In my current game, playing Brits/Early/Hard/GA, I bribed Wales and conquered Scotland within the first few turns. Then I started building farmland in the most profitable provinces and creating a solid army for when France attacked. They didn’t, but began warring with HRE, so I took the opportunity to absorb four provinces into my kingdom. France is now gone. I kept an eye on their farmland development prior to the war. They did build a couple provinces up, but not always the rich ones. That’s the AI for you, I guess. More importantly though, once I secured the land under my flag, I wasted no time building them up to at least 40%. Now I have a huge army, boats all the way to Mid East (where I’m about to launch crusades for GA goals), and I still net 3500+ florins. This is like having a solid trade route, but with two added benefits: I get it sooner, and it is not threatened by war.

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The goal with reducing trade and upping the farm income is that the AI gets a better economy. The AI can't handel trade, but has no problem with farm income. By reducing the trade, the player will not have upper hand and the AI gets a better chance of getting a good income. ~;)

any progress on the patch?

I have not worked on the patch for more than a week because of my visit in Copenhagen, but im doing some work again now. The new info pics takes more time than expected, so it will be a week or two. :embarassed:

np. thanks.

Any news on MedMod?

Always remember that some factions may always be easier to play than others, whether you play a modded game or not.

One quick way to increase the challenge (whether playing with a mod or not) is:

Select your faction, then give ALL other factions 150,000 Florins (or more).

The starting Florins for your faction must remain at the game default level.

This simple, but effective, addition should significantly increase your game challenge.

I always do this before every game I play in MTW, and I have had some amazing games battling the AI...

Cheers!