Army Lists

********************WARNING: This thread is outdated**********************
(Nonetheless, it give a very good and comprehensive overview of Hoggy's awesome works)


Japanese Army List

Infantry
Ashigaru
Yari Samurai
Naginata
Samurai Infantry
No-Dachi Heavy Samurai
Samurai Archers
Sohei Monks
Mighty Swordsmen
Kamikaze
Hero Ronin
Hero: Tomoe Gozen

Cavalry
Samurai Cavalry
Yari Cavalry
Samurai Horse Archers
Samurai Heavy Cavalry


Concepts
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Japancolnew2.jpg

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/samhornew.jpg

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/SamOfficers.jpg

Chinese Army list

Infantry
Peasants
Light Spearmen
Heavy Spearmen
Imperial Guard
Mace Infantry
Imperial Archers
Cho Ku No (Repeating Crossbowmen)
Shaolin Monks
Elite Imperial Guard
Tibettan infantry
Hero: Hong Shue Fei
Hero: Jian Sheng

Cavalry
Imperial Cavalry
Bactrian Archers
Light Chariot
Elite Archers/Scouts
Guan Yu cavalry

Special Units
Leopards
Fire lances (possibly)

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Chininfnew.jpg

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Chincav.jpg
Officers etc:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/ChinOfficers.jpg

http://hoggy.metw.net/other/badge2.pngDemon Army list

Infantry
Basket Demon Ronin
Undead Samurai
Zombie ashigaru
Rokurokubi
Ghost Geisha Fighters
Bakemono
Kappa Archers
Hanya
Noh Demons
Shreeking Hags
Snow Monkey Infantry
Wang Liang
4 arm warrior

Cavalry
Shishi Riders
Camel riding demons
Kappa Elephants
Beast Riders

Special Units
Bronze Dragon (with palanquin)

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Demonnew.jpg

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/japdem01a.jpg

Officers
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/DemOfficers.jpg

Indian Army list

Infantry
Peasant Infantry (loin cloth, buckler and scimitar)
Krishnapur Swordsmen (ornate turban scimitar and shield)
Krishnapur Guard (ornate turban spear and shield)
Chakra Infantry
Golden warriors (ornate gold helmet early cone style)
Golden archers (ornate gold helmet early cone style)
Fanatic Tribesmen (dreadlocked with loincloth and club)

Cavalry
Horse Archers/Scouts
Krishnapur Lancers (ornate turban spear and shield)
Arjuna Chariots (ornate gold helmet early cone style after hero Arjuna)
Elephant Archers
War Elephants
Royal Elephants (ornate white elephant with minaret palanquin)

Special Units
Tigers

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/India_Infnew.jpg

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Indiacav.jpg

Monk Army:

Infantry
Sohei monks
Shaolin Monks
Masters

Cavalry
Cavalry Monks

Leaders
Officer
Shrine standard

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Monks.jpg

Mongol Army:

Infantry
Khanate warrior
Khanate Archer
Khanate Spears

Cavalry
Khanate Elite Cavalry archers
Khanate Cavalry

Leaders
Officer

Korean Army:

Infantry
Hwrang
Choson Elite Archers
Choson spears
Choson Warriors
Choson Infantry
Choson Firelancers

Cavalry
Goguryo Cavalry
Choson Scout Cavalry

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/koreaNew2.jpg

Neutral Armies (ie remaining factions):
Infantry
Boar Spears
Eagle archers
Bear Warriors

Cavalry
Lion Cavalry

Leaders
Officers

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Neutral.jpg

Rebels/mercenaries:

Infantry:
re-use:
Boar Spears
Eagle archers
Bear Warriors
Samurai
Ashigaru
Chinese light Spears
Mace Infantry
Chakra Throwers
plus:
Ronin
Red Hair samurai
Ghost skull throwers
Tribal Spear
Fish men
Chakra Throwers
Hanuman
Yakuza
Dragon
4 arm woman
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/mercs01.jpg
Cavalry
re-use:
Lion Cavalry
Indian Horse archers
Khanate Elite Cavalry archers
plus:
Durga Cavalry
Giant Turtle Riders

What army lists I just see the names of the factions?~:(

probably just place holders that he'll update later :)


otherewise this will be the most boring mod ever :wiseguy:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big_John

otherewise this will be the most boring mod ever :wiseguy:

---

lol

Yep, I just wanted to make sure the most up to date army lists stay at the top of the thread really so these placeholders will keep them all together. I've updated them now (was too hung over yesterday ~:) )

As I mentioned the following is based around my old notes and ideas for an Asian wargame I never got around to developing further. Its quite bulky and probably goes back over a lot of stuff you already have but feel free to borrow any parts that take your fancy (and pay no heed to the rest).

To begin, you’ve laid out several factions already but apart from the main regions individual branches, if any, still seem to be a bit up in the air. As such I’ll put forward my own suggestions for possible choices. The names given for the various regions below are their original names (as close as I can figure) and seem appropriate for a mythic pseudo-historical setting. Each region would have its basic unit available to all factions within that area and then special units available only to individual factions.

The various factions should ideally have some unit cohesion in terms of look and prowess, i.e. the various units should look good when brought together as well as by themselves and the army should have a particular focus in terms of gameplay, strong and weak points that distinguish it slightly from the others. So far there are 12 factions (I know ~;) pay no heed) I myself would consider worthwhile for current or future consideration, they and the possible character of their troops are as follows.

1) Western Shogunate (Progressive cultured Samurai army) - Very Disciplined, best spearmen
2) Eastern Shogunate (Old-fashioned, spirit worshipping Samurai) - Very Heavy Infantry
3) The Clan of the Bear (Civilised Korean human kingdom) - Best Archers
4) The Clan of the Tiger (Chaotic Korean spirit kingdom) - Almost entirely non-human
5) The Court of the Sun (Southern Chinese Empire) - Balanced Army, slightly stronger
6) The Court of the Moon (Northern Chinese Empire) - Balanced Army, slightly lighter & faster
7) The Jade Kingdom (Lord of the Spirit World) - Unbreakable troops
8) Dai Jiao - "the Evil Cult" (A sect of decadent anarchists) - Largest mobs of troops
9) The Barbarian Horde (Allied tribes on the Empires border) - Fastest Cavalry
10) The Sarvabhauma (Semi-Arabic Indian kingdom) - Mix of Light cavalry and Infantry
11) The Ekarat (Far Eastern Indian Kingdom) - Very heavy Cavalry
12) The Islands of Mist (Warrior-Monks) - Best close combat but small in number

Yamatai (Japan)

Factions

The two halves of the country are fighting over which family will act as regent for the 10 year old boy king. The native spirits of the island have lent their aid to the humans they see as most in touch with their spiritual goals. The East is seen as more cultured and progressive while the West is more tribal and conservative.

1) Eastern Shogunate – Allied with spirits of heaven (Amatsu kami)
2) Western Shogunate – Allied with spirits of Earth (Kunitsu kami)

Units

0) Basic
Machi Yakko - Peasant Militia
Ashigaru Yari - Light (Hara-ate) Armor
Ashigaru Archers - Lt.Arm
Samurai Archers - Lt.Arm
Chugen - Samurai Squires, weak infantry, maybe scouts
Samurai Pavise archers - Lt.Arm
Samurai Naginata Light Foot - Medium (Do-maru) Armour
Samurai Sword Heavy Foot - Heavy (O-yoroi) Armour
No Dachi Heavy Foot - Lt.Arm
Samurai Light Cavalry - Med.Arm
Samurai Heavy Cavalry - Hvy.Arm
Samurai Mounted Archers - Med.Arm
Ronin Mercenaries - Shock troops, Med.Arm, poor morale
Hatamoto - Elite Bodyguard

1) Eastern Shogunate
Kamikaze - Unbreakable, cause fear
Shojosenshi (warrior maidens) - Morale boost to nearby troops
Kenshi - Best “giant-killer” unit in game
Sohei - High Morale, fast
Ikko-ikki - Fanatical monks, unbreakable
Omikoshi Sohei - Carry portable shrine, provide moral bonus to friendlies
Light Oyumi - Repeating Crossbow
Heavy Oyumi - Ballista
Kitsune - Fox Spirits, Spirit Archers, fox tails red hair, elven features
Tengu - Bird Spirits, Elite Swordsmen
(Note: Tengu also appear as Raven headed men in tall wooden sandals rather than masked dwarfs with long noses and imo look much more striking this way)

2) Western Shogunate
Kabukimono - Human bandits
Hengeyokai - Shapeshifters
Kappa - Water Spirits
Blue Oni
Red Oni
(Note: the Oni are the traditional Ogres and distinct from the masked Hanya – who is in actuality female)
Yamanba - Mountain Hags
Jikininki - Ghouls, Corpse Eaters
Kama-itachi - v. fast weasel monsters with sickle like claws (mammalian Raptors)
Kijo - Forest ogre
Kumo-kami - Giant spider spirits
Yasha - Giant vampire bat

Choson (Korea)

The people of Choson are descended from Bear spirits to whom the Gods granted human form. The vengeful Tiger spirits who also sought this boon from the Gods but were refused have since that time attempted to bring chaos and ruin to the region.

Factions

1) Bear Clan
2) Tiger Clan

Units

0) Basic
Peasant Levy
Light Infantry
Archers
Light Cavalry

1) Bear Clan
Hwa Rang Light Infantry - Use triple bladed spears
Hwa Rang Heavy Infantry - Use swords
Hwa Rang Archers - Use composite bows
Hwa Rang Cavalry - Use spears
Sulsa - Special forces, more Green Beret than ninja
Chiha yo Changgun - Ancestral guardian spirits
Malgal Tribesmen
Bear Warriors (Can take massive amounts of damage)

[Note: Korean Medieval warriors have a distinct wide brimmed helmet that can help distinguish them from Chinese and Japanese troops.
Some examples can be seen here http://scheltrum.ironmammoth.co.uk/yidynasty.html Other troops often wear long headscarves. Officers often have Chinese style helmets but these could perhaps be ignored as with the other two types they have more of a clear identity]

[Note: to give them a distinct focus the Bear clan army can be made more missile oriented with the addition of the Repeating Crossbows and Artillery found on the Chinese list. The reason for this being of course that the bow is often given the reverence in Korea that the sword receives in Japan]

2) Tiger Clan
Human bandits
Chejun Giants
Kumiho - Malevolent fox spirits – missile skirmishers
Tokebi - Goblin light infantry
Tiger warriors - Berserkers

Qin (China)

Factions

The sprawling Empire is so large that it is almost too much for anyone ruler to handle. Thankfully the land has two in the form of the unaging Emperor and Empress, twin brother and sister who have ruled for almost a thousand years. In Summer it is the Emperor’s laws that hold sway as new edicts are issued from his Court of the Sun in the Southern regions. In Winter however, power shifts to his sister whose commands flow from the Court of the Moon in the North.

Although over the centuries they have often come into conflict with one another, and sometimes occasional civil war, generally the find themselves allied against the other forces that threaten their great Empire.

On the Western borders various Barbarian tribes continue to press against the Empires boundaries, testing it for weakness and possible invasion routes. On the Eastern coast a vile cult that edifies degenerate behaviour and debauched excess, leading whole villages or regions in rebellion against the Imperial order. And of course, throughout the Empire, the perpetual shadow of the Jade Kingdom looms. The rulers of the land of the dead always seeking a return to the lands of the living or fresh souls to force into their servitude.

1) Court of the Sun
2) Court of the Moon
3) Jade Kingdom
4) Dai Jiao (the Evil Cult)
5) Barbarian Tribes

Units

0) Basic
Yibing - Peasants
Mubing - Peasant Militia
Light Infantry
Archers
Light Cavalry

1&2) Both Imperial Courts
Imperial Infantry
Imperial Crossbows
Imperial Cavalry

1) Court of the Sun
Fire Lances - Rudimentary, short-range flame-throwers
Rocket Artillery - [Good images of an medieval rocket cart can be found here http://www.koreanmonsters.com]
Brocade Guard - Royal Bodyguard, wear elegantly embroidered uniforms.
Zhanmajian Infantry - Anti-cavalry troops
Zhuge Nu - Machine Gun action repeating crossbow
Lian Nu - Shotgun action multiple crossbow
Tie Fu Tu - Heavy Infantry, Iron scale armour

2) Court of the Moon
Ying lan (brave orchids) - Warrior women
Ch'in-chun - Elite Cavalry
Gansi-Dui - Oath-bound Shock Troops
Tie Qi (iron riders) - Heavy cavalry
Shishi Riders - Chariots

3) Jade Kingdom
Jiang’shi - Hopping Zombies
Ghost warriors - Spectral versions of regular infantry
Ghost cavalry - Spectral versions of regular cavalry
Hand Maids - Flying ghost women
Palanquins - Undead Lords carried by lantern bearing servants


4) Dai Jiao (Evil Cult)
Bandits
Slave Troops – Captured villagers forced to fight one another in bear pits
Cultists - Drug Crazed Psychopaths
Cult Priests - Fanatical Wild-man Priests
Yang Liang - Horned Demons
Ch'uan-T'ou Skirmishers - Bat-winged people

5) Barbarian Tribes
Light Cavalry - Mtd Archers
Heavy Cavalry - Xiongnu Mtd Archers - Elite Archers
Wuhuan Light Cavalry - Very Fast
Mangudei Heavy Cavalry - Elite Mongol Shock Troops

Bharat (India)

The battle among the countless princes of Bharat has is reaching its conclusions with two great Lords now posed to claim the title of “Samrat” king of the entire Indian sub-continent. The ancient gods of the land, the rival Devas and Asuras, now choose sides and watch the final stages of the game play out, lending their aid to those they deem most worthy of glory.

Factions

1) The Sarvabhauma – favoured by the Devas
2) The Ekarat – favoured by the Asuras

Units

1) Basic
Atavi skirmishers - Forest tribesmen
Sreni Infantry - Merchant Guild Spearmen
Bhrta Infantry - Low morale Merecenary light infantry
Bhrta Cavalry - Low morale Mercenary light cavalry
Maula Infantry - Hereditary light infantry
Maula Archers - Hereditary troops
Maula Cavalry - Hereditary light cavalry
Kshatria Infantry - Noble Heavy Infantry
Kshatria Archers - Noble longbowmen


2) The Sarvabhauma
Kamboja Horsemen - Elite Light Cavalry
Light Chariots - Heavy Chariots
Armored Elephants - Close combat role
Howdah Elephants - Missile support role
Saffron Guard - Robed fatalistic noblemen
Gurkhas - Aggressive close combat troops
Cera Archers - Elite Tamil archers
Apsaras - female water/wood spirits
Gandharvas - male nature spirits, half beast
Garuda - Bird men
Kinnaras - Horse-headed men, bonus to friendly morale

3) The Ekarat
Bahalika Cavalry - Elite Light Cavalry
Camel riders
Camel Archers
Nihang swordsmen - Elite Sikh warriors
Chakram skirmishers
Tomara skirmishers - Javelins
Bindipala Fighters - Heavy Clubs
Kanda Kodali axemen
Pata swordsmen - Long, thrusting gauntlet-swords
Mulf-I-khar swordsmen
Nagan swordsmen
Chota Nagpur axemen - Bullova two handed axe
Batak axemen - Kapak throwing axes
Rakshas - Skeletal demons
Naga - Men with the lower bodies of snakes
Dund riders - Headless horsemen
Abarimon skirmishers - Backwards feet, fastest runners

Shangshung (Tibet)

The impassable mountains of this region rise far into the clouds and on the highest peaks sit the secret schools of the Shangshung warrior monks. These schools ring the tallest of all mountains in the world, the great Shen’bei’chang, at whose summit the Celestial Court can be found. This is the meeting place used by the various Earthly Gods to interact with one another and also with the divine creator itself. Among many of the mortal races it is said that any who can make their way here can become gods themselves, gifted with eternal life. Many have tried but so far none have succeeded.

Factions

1) Islands of Mist
2) Celestial Court – Unplayable Senate faction. The warring armies are fighting for ultimate control of this.

Units

1) Islands of Mist
Dan’chu (Dawn Students) - Yellow robed skirmishers, using throwing irons
Wu’chu (Noon Students) - Orange robed, shaven headed staff fighters
Gan’chu (Sunset Students) - Red robed swordsmen
He‘pai (White crane School) - Female warriors with iron fans
She‘pai (Snake School) - Top-knotted swordsmen
Hu‘pai (Tiger School) - Burly, black-bearded polearm fighters
Tang‘pai (Mantis School) - Sickle wielding white-bearded old men
Long‘pai (Dragon School) - Fire-breathing fat bald guys

2) Celestial Court
Unplayable but perhaps some unique guardians to kick ass in the end game.

jenns, cool stuff! but it almost seems like you should maybe look into creating a whole new mod? i personally wouldn't mind seeing hoggy borrow some ideas of yours though. for me, your setup is a bit too fanciful, whereas hoggy's (as of yet) maybe is a bit too bound by historical concepts. a happy middle ground would be cool.

but a lot of your setup would require RTW modding capability that doesn't exist yet unfortunately :disappointed:

Thanks John, I'd never have the time to work on a seperate Mod though. As I said, the lists above were for an old game concept I had that was left by the wayside due to other commitments. It also goes without saying that I'd never have the talent to bring such units to life that Hoggy seems to possess.

I've noticed that some of the uits above are doubled up, e.g. in Qin, Shishi Riders and chariots are seperate unit, as are the Barbarian Light Cav, Mtd Archers, Heavy Cav and Xiongnu Archers.

Just to note, the units above are all existing historical or mythical groups rather than any creation of my own.

Some other possible factions that weren't part of my discarded concept:

Island Kingdoms
Inlcuding both the South-Eastern tip of the continetal mass (Thailand, Burma, Vietnam, etc.) plus the various island regions (Philippines, Indonesia, Fiji, Borneo, etc.) that have untapped distinct cultures would nicely wrap up the entire Asian continent.

Conquistadors
European (or Arabic) Explorers in the vein of Columbus or Marco Polo who find a route to the mysterious east and try to set up a puppet kingdom, perhaps starting from a tiny island trading post (in the manner of Hong Kong).

Tibet=Xizang, you can't call it anything else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DemonArchangel

Tibet=Xizang, you can't call it anything else.

---

lol, why not?

Xizang is the current name for Tibet in Mandarin Chinese (since 1965). It refers only to the Tibet Autonomous Region which makes up about half of the old kingdom of Tibet which was comprised of three seperate regions (Amdo, Kham and Utsang) and was know in ancient times as the kingdom of "Shangshung".

so it sounds to me like xizang is the last thing we should call it then :2thumbsup:

I'm surprised there's not much emphasis on any Turco-Mongol factions........The Chinese built the Great Wall to keep us out you know :charge: :charge: :charge:

Seriously! We need Mongolians! Kara-Khitai! Tatars! Merkids! Huzzah!
:charge: :charge: :charge: :medievalcheers:

"I need no fortune for I am a Mongol and I make my own future!"
~Me at Mongolian Barbeque.

Some quick thoughts here.

Hoggy, for hero units, will we be going with an individual's name (eg Tomoe Gozen), or a group name (as I mentioned on the main thread)?

Now the Japanese naginata units. As the dev it's up to you, but why not make them a female unit? I like Jenns' idea of the "warrior maidens" but only if they are effective fighters as well. The wives and daughters of samurai were bushi themselves. I think it would be a waste if they were simply Japanese-looking "screeching women". Perhaps that would be a use for the "Joushigun" title I mentioned before.

Also, did those ordinary units of "geisha" tickle your interest? Because I think it might be a bit odd to have dead geisha warriors, if there were no live ones to begin with. If you made the ghost units "ethereal", then they can't easily be hurt by many weapons - the real geisha could be a counter to that. I think a geisha unit would also be a better source of moral for an army, than samurai women clad in armour.

Well I PM´ed Hoggy about my idea for the Hanuman a few days ago and he suggested me to paste my PM here on the 'Army list'-forum since he may include them as mercenary troops, bandits or rebells on the Indian part of the map.


"Hi!

I do´'t know if you have read my post about the Hanuman on the 'General forum' and the 'Blue lotus forum' yet. The post is about to implement the Hanuman into the game, and hopefully as an entirly own faction.

I guess you and your team already have alot of your own ideas and probably dosen't need any new faction ideas... but here I go anyway


You know the god Hanuman, the monkey/ape featured humanoid that stands for guidance and wisdom, follower of Rama? Also called Sun Wukong in chinese mythology.


My idea was to make the race of ape-men (vanara) to be called after the great monkey god Hanuman (or Sun Wunkong in chinese mythology). In apperance they should look like him but less powerfull. Baybe some variation between the troops. Slim human looking creatures with silk fur (mostly yak-brown, some could be orangutang-red or snow monkey white), long tails and arms and monkey/chimpanse-like facial features (but still looking human in some way).


I have a few inspiring links/pictures here of Hanuman/vanara...
http://www.sjc-serbia.com/download/hanuman.jpg
http://deepak.portland.co.uk/images/hanuman.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/posmandir/hanuman.jpg
http://www.indianink.net/cards/hanuman.gif
http://www.swamishyam.org/hanuman-deco.jpg
http://www.warriorprincess.com/seas...Way/hanuman.jpg
http://www.pilgrimage-india.com/gifs/lord-hanuman.jpg
http://www.holymtn.com/gods/HAN-3med.jpg
http://www.ape-o-naut.org/famous/fa...ges/hanuman.jpg
http://images.google.se/imgres?imgu...hl%3Dsv%26lr%3D



Possible backround/fluff for the HANUMAN
A possible background story for the Hanuman/Sun Wukong could be that the Hanuman once where humans who lived in a templar empire deep in the jungle. They where at war with evil jungle spirits and lurking demon beasts (agents/outcasts of the Yomi empire?). The Hanuman won the war but the fallen enemie cursed them and their god. The powerfull curse turned both them and their god into mindless monkeys. But at time the god Hanuman woke from his haze and then; one by one, woke his faithfull followers and learned them how to speak and craft things again. Made them to vanaras.

Another story could be that Hanuman was a renegade god/spirit/demon of the Krishnapur or the Yomi empire. He fled to the southern jungles and hide their in a abandoned ruin city. After hundreds of years he got bored of the company of animal spirits and worked his magic and might on the monkeys that inhabited the ruins. He learned them how to speek, craft things, work togheter and in the end form them into warriors and guardians of Hanuman and his jungle kingdom.

A third possible story for the Hanuman could be that they are the heirs of the god Hanuman and his children: the monkey/ape spirits (vanara). They live in the deep of the jungle in their hidden temples and citys and only the friendly minded are allowed to enter their kingdom. This may be the possible seed of the conflict between the Krishnapur and the Hanuman. The Krishnapur who want to expand west find the Hanuman in the way and have successfully pushed them aside. But now has the conflict reached the point where the last strong jungle city of the Hanuman have mobilised. Ready to fight back the furless intruders. Some of the old ones even suggest that the Millenia of the Monkey god are att hand and that the known world shall be aware of the army of Hanuman and his children.



Cultural profile of the HANUMAN
I also have an idea when it comes to the way their culture could look. Since the Hanuman originate from hindu mythology they could be portraid indian style. But that would clearly make them just a mirror-faction to the Krishnapur.

Instead you could let them have a cultural apperance much like Thailand http://imagesoftheworld.org/thailand/01816.jpg blended with Indonesia http://www.globalgeografia.com/albu...a/borobudur.jpg

Another cultural apperance of the Hanuman civilisation could the be the one of the ancient tempel city of Anchor Vat (...or even the ruins of the monkey king in Mowgli). Dense owergrown SE-asian ruins.

Possible helmet designs of the elite Hanuman warrior:
http://geo.ya.com/travelimages/thai97.jpg
http://www.seasite.niu.edu/Thai/lit...anumanfront.jpg
http://images.google.se/imgres?imgu...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN



End of part 1"

"Part 2.


Possible symbol and color-scheme of the Hanuman
White and Gold, or Pink and Green.
Their symbol could be a sillhuette of a tower á la Ankhor Vat style, or it could be the sillhuette of a crowned dancing monkey/hanuman.




Possible armylist of the HANUMAN

Warrior Hanuman
Standard melee units. Nearly naked, only wearing bronze/gold bracers/bracelets, necklease, open ornated bronze/gold helmets and similar things. Wears pink sarong-like skirts. Armed with short spears. They should have brown fur.

Hanuman Bowmen
Ranged units. Similar clothing/jewelry as the warriors except the helmets. They have golden tiara style headbands/hats. Wears green sarong cloth. Armed with indian horn bows. They could have orange fur. May probably only consist of female vanara?

Késari Warriors
Named after Hanumans father. Buff and strong. They are berserker like units with low defence and armor but does major damage. Almost naked except for the sarong cloth. Armed with two-handed Hanuman style mace. Brown fur.

Anjana guard
Named after Hanumans mother. They are slim and armed with dual saber like knifes. Fast and deadly and frightening. They looks like bowmen and warriors but have mask-like helmets (look far above*). They also have shoulder like pads of bronze or gold and gold ornated green cloth. They could have white OR black fur. May probably only consist of female vanara?

Old Monkey Wanderers
Named after the avatar name of Hanuman. Few in numbers and with no armor but does muches damage with area effect. They are old male (and female?) vanara with long braided white or greyish fur/hair and beards. They wear long white and pink robe-like cloth pieces and heavy ornated golden neckplates. They are armed with an Indian weapon I have forgot the name of. The weapon is like a sword but the blade is several meters long and much like thin and flat bands/strands of metal. The one who handle it use it much like a whip (a whip that can cut of limbs). Old Monkey Wanderers are slow but extremly deadly and have great closecombat range. They higher the morale of friends. Their downside is their small numbers.

Hanuman temple guard
Elite infantry. Looks much like the warriors but are taller and wear more armor. They have crowned helmets much like the one that Hanuman has in the portraits of him.
They wear green and pink sarong and are armed with hanuman style mace.

Serpent Spirits
Special infantry. Slow but inflict terror in their enemies. Looks like giant python. Good at killing/strangeling large enemie troops like elephants. But they are way to slow and large to counter human-sized enemies.

Tiger Spirits
Special infantry/cavalry. Looks like tigers with white glowing eyes and are twice (or trice?) the size of regular tigers. Good at killing moost troops but are few in numbers and quite slow, afraid of fire based attacks.

Hanuman Tiger Riders
Standard Hanuman cavalry. Hanuman warriors armed with spear (or maybe bows), riding on large tigers.

Rama Tiger Cavalry
Heavy cavalry. Hanuman tempel guardians armed with mace and shield, riding on great white tigers.

Jungle Tramplers
Special skirmisher cavarly. Hanuman bowmen sitting on dwarven elephants (elephants small/large as big working horses) with hanuman style golden tiara on their forheads.




Possible strategic traits and downsides for the Hanuman troops
They could get bonus when moving and fighting in forest or jungle terrain.
Or maybe have the "invicible" ability when they are in dense forests/jungles.

They could get higher moveabillity when moving through other troops because they can "climb" over troops.

They are good at retreat when you want them to. Good skirmishers.

They could get minus when moving or fighting on flat ground without any terrain.

They are quite weak compared to troops from other factions.

Their morale and fighting spirit will drop when trying to move them over waters/floods and bridges due their fear of water.



Thats it. I don't know if you like the idea of Hanuman as an own faction. But i really think a neutral/good non-human faction would make the game even more intressting!
*I really like the god Hanuman*

Well, if not worth considering then I hope it was atleast some good reading (even though my extremly crappy grammar).

Cheers!"


Now I asume that the army list will be reduced for the Hanuman. Also I agree with Ramareddy that the Hanuman should be called Vanara. I mostly agree with this because the original idea to call the monkey men is lost when they are not an own faction (called after their Kingdom and god - Hanuman). As mercenaries they should be more likely to be called by their race's name - Vanara. But if they will be a mini-faction then it would be nice if they will be called Hanuman or Sun Wukong.

I've updated the japanese army list at the top of this thread with concepts for the assorted units of the japanese style armies.

Great stuff as usual Hoggy. However i was wondering if it was possible to give Sohei thier own personal officer and banner bearer, possibly even a portable shrine. Also it would be cool if some units would have ninja scouts.

We may be able to do this for the Monk faction and therefore should in theory be possible for Sohei used by other factions, I'll look into it. Ninja will probably only appear as spies/assasins on the strat map and as hirable units.

Ps. I've updated the link for the japanese concepts at the top of this thread. made alterations to concepts to incorporate unit changes etc.

... and new India cavalry concepts above too.

Those Kamikaze fellows remind me of Kikuchiyo from The Seven Samurai.

seeing how u have Guan Yu Cavalry, why not also have Lu Bu Heavy Infantry, as Lu Bu was probably the finest warrior of his time (3 kingdoms period).

.. and a new concept for Chinese officers/standard bearers etc in post 2

FuriousMental - yep that's who the kamikaze are based on. Just a shame i can't capture the intensity.

dark_shadow - The Guan Yu cavalry were added to replace the war chariot but the chinese are are full up for infantry at the moment. Maybe Lu Bu can appear as a mercenary unit later.

I think you captured it well- had you not, I wouldn't have caught on to the resemblance!

The mongol, korean, monk and rebel armylists have been updated at the top of this thread.

looking great tough
No mangudai for the mongol faction? And will the priests get a "magic" unit?

Overall looks good, but a few suggestions.
Firstly don't make the mongol elite calvary archers be mercs, when the mongols were used as merc they usually were used as shock troops not in thier traditional fashion. In this vein i think that the mongols should also have another lesser calvary, a type of light calvary composed of younger men trying to prove themselves, this than would be the unit available as mercs.
Also i think that the Koreans should have a mystic or a bare handed martial-artist unit to help balance the faction out and make it more unique.
Other than that, great stuff, i'd love to see your concept art, which by the way is excellent, for these new factions.

EDIT: Sorry, just remembered. The Koreans were quite fond of the No-dachi after it was introduced to them by the japanese invasion. Just an idea.

cheers guys.

Note: updated demon army list with concepts for demon officers/standard bearer etc.

That is decidedly NOT something i would want to see following me down the street late at night.

Or at all for that matter.

Just a question but what kind off special units will Japan the mongol faction and korea get. While China has leopards, buffalo chariot, camels, fire lancer chariots. India has Elephants and chariots. Demons have lots of special units but Japan, Mongols and korea? not one at this moment!

The mongols should have some form of primitive gunpowder explosive. Expensive, inaccurate, with low ammo, but deadly. Perhaps something like the thunder bombers from STW:MI. They were basically just slingers with explosives. You could just use the head hurler animation.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen005.jpg

thx for the awnser shifty!
And those explosive slingers would really be cool!

I'm afraid the mongols are what I'm calling a mini faction (as are korea) ie a faction with fewer units. This is a limitation due to lack of time. Hopefully in future the Mongol faction could be expanded, other units might include wolf handlers and shamans but it depends on time really. Some top unit ideas though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hoggy

I'm afraid the mongols are what I'm calling a mini faction (as are korea) ie a faction with fewer units. This is a limitation due to lack of time. Hopefully in future the Mongol faction could be expanded, other units might include wolf handlers and shamans but it depends on time really. Some top unit ideas though.

---

that's really a shame, cause I'd loved to see even more crazy units but this is still going to be supermod! :charge:

i really forgot how terrible the graphics of the explosions were in stw...
i think keeping them as a mini faction for now is the best idea, as they aren't a vital part to the playability of the game and it would take too long to add them completely to the game.

I like those concept art drawins , who is the author of them?
Btw The mod looks really amazing , but I am asking myself where comes from all this ideas or informations of units ? is it based on what , imagination or legend? and the supposed timeframe what should it be?

Hoggy makes the concepts. The demon units are based on cultural legend however they are not confined to it. There is no specific timeframe for the other factions and their units. Again they are historically based but they are not confined by our history. This is a fantasy mod with flavorings of far eastern culture and history.

I hope I answered that to Hoggy's satisfaction.

Mongals Should Have Lots Of Cavalry They Focused On Cavalry In Their Armys They Were In Massed Numbers Too!

Hey.

I was googling for a samurai mod for RTW, and came across this mod. It looks fantastic! I can't wait to get a working version. From the screenshots, it looks like it'll be great.

By the way, are the concept drawings originals?

- Kuro

Abokasee - I agree but in TW a faction only able to build cavalry will never win battles. People would simply field spearmen and archers against the mongols. As it is the Mongol cavalry will be cheap and plentiful but they have the ability to create infantry too.

Kurogane - glad you like the mod. the drawings are originals and are done to help me work out what the units will look like and for the unit cards.

I liked these characters.

http://animax.ru/shots/the_monkey_king.jpg

http://www.rgosborne.com/photos/china/210_std.jpg

Cheers Hunkinelvis, I hope you don't mind I moved these here:

http://img.airspider.com/image/00/12/03/00120338_2.jpg http://img.airspider.com/image/00/12/03/00120339_2.jpg

http://img.airspider.com/image/00/66/47/00664783_2.jpg There used to be a pond at the front of this temple.

http://img.airspider.com/image/00/57/47/00574708_2.jpg

and these from HunkinElvis too, excellent reference cheers:

Generals or Admirals
http://img.airspider.com/image/00/74/37/00743736_2.jpg


Hwarang Cavalry (Silla, 5th century)
http://img.news.yahoo.co.kr/picture/...0_10921475.jpg

http://img.news.yahoo.co.kr/picture/...0_12853488.jpg

Hwacha (Chosun, 16th century)
http://hall.ksf.or.kr/presenter/choi...imuseon_26.jpg

A slight change to the indian army list. I can't remember who mentioned it but the gurkhas are been dropped in favour of Chakra throwers
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/chakra.jpg

they look cool but can't you have both :( :(
btw: Nice concept draw

I was the guy that requested Chakra Throwers, are you taking into consideration the "Manthra" ability that I mentioned also?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jenns

As I mentioned the following is based around my old notes and ideas for an Asian wargame I never got around to developing further. Its quite bulky and probably goes back over a lot of stuff you already have but feel free to borrow any parts that take your fancy (and pay no heed to the rest).

To begin, you’ve laid out several factions already but apart from the main regions individual branches, if any, still seem to be a bit up in the air. As such I’ll put forward my own suggestions for possible choices. The names given for the various regions below are their original names (as close as I can figure) and seem appropriate for a mythic pseudo-historical setting. Each region would have its basic unit available to all factions within that area and then special units available only to individual factions.

The various factions should ideally have some unit cohesion in terms of look and prowess, i.e. the various units should look good when brought together as well as by themselves and the army should have a particular focus in terms of gameplay, strong and weak points that distinguish it slightly from the others. So far there are 12 factions (I know ~;) pay no heed) I myself would consider worthwhile for current or future consideration, they and the possible character of their troops are as follows.

1) Western Shogunate (Progressive cultured Samurai army) - Very Disciplined, best spearmen
2) Eastern Shogunate (Old-fashioned, spirit worshipping Samurai) - Very Heavy Infantry
3) The Clan of the Bear (Civilised Korean human kingdom) - Best Archers
4) The Clan of the Tiger (Chaotic Korean spirit kingdom) - Almost entirely non-human
5) The Court of the Sun (Southern Chinese Empire) - Balanced Army, slightly stronger
6) The Court of the Moon (Northern Chinese Empire) - Balanced Army, slightly lighter & faster
7) The Jade Kingdom (Lord of the Spirit World) - Unbreakable troops
8) Dai Jiao - "the Evil Cult" (A sect of decadent anarchists) - Largest mobs of troops
9) The Barbarian Horde (Allied tribes on the Empires border) - Fastest Cavalry
10) The Sarvabhauma (Semi-Arabic Indian kingdom) - Mix of Light cavalry and Infantry
11) The Ekarat (Far Eastern Indian Kingdom) - Very heavy Cavalry
12) The Islands of Mist (Warrior-Monks) - Best close combat but small in number

---

That's very cool. Those are some excellent sounding names. "Court of the Sun", "Court of the Moon"..."The Evil Cult".

It's great to see that so many people still have vivid imaginations..

And I sure wish Hoggy would combine his great graphic skills and vivid imagination with a lot of Jenn's superb concepts. They're very poetically allusive...

Quote:

---

Kurogane - glad you like the mod. the drawings are originals and are done to help me work out what the units will look like and for the unit cards.

---

Hoggy, I'm an artist myself, and I have to say, as amazing as your talents as a modeller are in 3D Max, your effortless freedom with pen and ink are amazing. In particular I'm envious of your horses. I swear, CA should hire you to redo all their horses, if nothing else...

Hi again. Been lurking on the forum for awhile (without posting though) and I have to say that Hoggy & Co are god sent modders. Looks wonderful. :bow:

I saw on the other forum that Hoggy requested pictures and stuff with/about korean units. Wel I found some, most of them are from the "historical" movie MUSA.




Heavy infantry/bodyguard:

http://koolouis.new21.net/murim/musa/musa32.jpg

http://koolouis.new21.net/murim/musa/musa63.jpg

http://koolouis.new21.net/murim/musa/musa64.jpg

http://koolouis.new21.net/murim/musa/musa81.jpg

http://www.hwarangdo.com/pics/ancient1.jpg



Mix of warriors, monks, archers and captains:

http://koolouis.new21.net/murim/musa/musa2.jpg

http://koolouis.new21.net/murim/musa/musa3.jpg

http://koolouis.new21.net/murim/musa/musa5.jpg

http://koolouis.new21.net/murim/musa/musa8.jpg

http://koolouis.new21.net/murim/musa/musa93.jpg

http://www.atarn.org/korean/ia1.gif

http://img.kbs.co.kr/cms/ICSFiles/af.../24/b_0021.jpg



Heavy cavalry:

http://koolouis.new21.net/murim/musa/musa35.jpg

http://koolouis.new21.net/murim/musa/musa61.jpg

[url]http://www.mygoguryeo.com/heroes_img/heroes03_main_pic00.gif[url]



War scenes/paintings:

http://www.hwarangdo.com/pics/bottle1.jpg

http://www.hwarangdo.com/pics/ancient2.jpg

http://www.kuksoolwon.com/images/history03.jpg

http://img23.exs.cx/img23/305/anshi2.jpg



PHwarang pics from another strategic war game:

http://apolyton.net/ron/factsheets/i...ons/korean.gif

excellent stuff Kageka, cheers :bow:

I hope the links with the pictures could be of some help. However, I snooped around a little bit more and found a few more ancient Korean warrior picture-links that may be of some use.



A detailed bronze sculpture head of a warrior:

http://www.kimsoft.com/2004/images%5...lchiMunduk.jpg



Paintings of korean warriors:

http://www.kimsoft.com/2004/pages/Generals.htm

http://www.kimsoft.com/2004/GoguryoBattle.jpg



Suits/clothing, semi-useful:

http://home.att.net/~taekwondo.junkie/soldierunif.jpg

http://www.koreanie.co.kr/edu_data/d...20protest2.jpg





I also checked the old replies on the other threads and found some useful links posted by Big John...


Korean/Hwarang crossbowman and a bamboo gunner:

http://img71.exs.cx/img71/6007/hang1.jpg


More pictures, links and info can be found on:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/foru...141&PN=0&TPN=1
A useful forum that discuss ancient korean warfare.



You mentioned that you searched for pictures of korean warriors that looked as different as possible from the chinese troops. I guess thats the right way to go since korean armor and battle gear looks quite similar to the chinese.

I think by using the special traits as much as possible may do the trick and make the koreans look less chinese. Special traits like the plate turtle necks (common for Koguryeo warriors), the flat redbanded black "amish-like" hats (common for archers and crossbowmen) and the heavy platemail suits/armour (including platemail pants for heavy cavalry).


I have asked before about the use of gunpowder in the game and the chinese fire lances seem to be the only ones with explosive power. But there are so many good pictures and info-links about ancient korean guns, cannons, bombs and rockets that its a shame not to include them. At least I feel so (I am a sucker for really old guns). But I guess that guns is out of the question since the mod has gone so far and already have found its form and style.

Hey great..you may want to look at this thread straight off.

Most pictures in back of thread.

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/ind...showtopic=1898

Here are some specific cool pics.

http://img220.exs.cx/img220/3843/ukkorea0ue.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/2588/u7.jpg
http://img23.exs.cx/img23/305/anshi2.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/3511/image...ryoSoldier.jpg
http://img46.exs.cx/img46/732/rider1.jpg
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/7876/hwacha.jpg
http://img27.echo.cx/img27/7212/013fh.jpg
http://img27.echo.cx/img27/9437/0815tq.jpg
http://img27.echo.cx/img27/8104/050110l6lg.jpg
http://img27.echo.cx/img27/1665/0250000000017cx.jpg
http://img27.echo.cx/img27/3985/b1018sh.jpg
http://img27.echo.cx/img27/5167/chung035ps.jpg
http://img27.echo.cx/img27/7218/daegaya0ig.jpg
http://img27.echo.cx/img27/3734/dongmyeong8rg.jpg
http://img30.echo.cx/img30/5112/emar62pv.jpg
http://img30.echo.cx/img30/3153/gimg13cd.gif
http://img30.echo.cx/img30/5125/goryeo8av.png
http://img30.echo.cx/img30/2426/gwanggaeto231ff.jpg
http://img30.echo.cx/img30/7939/gyebaek1qy.jpg
http://img30.echo.cx/img30/851/haengjusaml7jb.jpg
http://img30.echo.cx/img30/9530/hwarang4vq.jpg
http://img30.echo.cx/img30/3345/ia12hp.gif
http://img27.echo.cx/img27/4654/kwakcha1eu7uk.jpg
http://img27.echo.cx/img27/7133/kwangm2pq.jpg
http://img62.echo.cx/img62/9109/s1hv.jpg
http://img62.echo.cx/img62/8387/samguk0039co.jpg
http://img62.echo.cx/img62/1497/samguk1039am.jpg
http://img62.echo.cx/img62/4457/tae15wl.jpg
http://img62.echo.cx/img62/1695/yisun4bo.jpg
http://img62.echo.cx/img62/8063/sky1ei.jpg

Right two are Goguryeoan
http://img62.echo.cx/img62/8110/sui0sy.jpg



Hope this helps. That's all for now.

Cheers
-GJ

This forum really needs an edit option.

BTW, I'm a moderator at both

www.chinahistoryforum.com

www.allempires.com/forum

These are both good places to find out about the histories and armies of the subject nations. cheers!

exellent stuff guys.

I've put a concept up for the monk faction (post no.5 in this thread). they reuse some earlier units mostly but are only a minority faction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hoggy

exellent stuff guys.

I've put a concept up for the monk faction (post no.5 in this thread). they reuse some earlier units mostly but are only a minority faction.

---

You're an amazing artist.


Wow..


Here's some more korean stuff I found.

http://img70.echo.cx/img70/6610/jangbogo8mv.gif
http://warmemo.co.kr/image/image_120...ms/warrior.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...eandShilla.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ingSuiarmy.jpg
http://www.taekwon-do-illertissen.de/images/Krieger.JPG
http://www.yescall.com/hwarangdo/images/main.gif
http://img70.echo.cx/img70/5817/hwang24ci.jpg

This would be the general uniform of a Shilla Hwarang.

http://img70.echo.cx/img70/3612/hwarang25uw.jpg


They would have worn light armor me thinks and they wore lots of make up. Hwarang means flower knight so they were chosen from the best looking guys. Most Koreans would have a beard, but not the Hwarang because they were generally young kids. General Sadaham was only 15 when he began to lead battles against Baekje.

I've used paint to depict what this guy should look like.

http://img54.echo.cx/img54/4458/hwarang34oc.jpg

Not that great, but you get the idea.

The Hwarang was basically a patriots club who's members often went to war for their nation. Most likely these individuals would have been on horse back because they were of noble blood. From a movie I watched a while back, they were depicted as using spears and bows. Kind of a light calvalry i guess.


Hope that helps.

Hoggy

excellent concept art. One question though; there doesn't seem to be any monk units for ranged combat (such as archers, javelin chuckers, crossbow men...)... or is the Masters-unit some kind of battle mage able to throw balls of fire or bolts of lightning?




Gubok Jangoon

I see what you're coming at about the Hwarang-do, and I think thats the right way to go. It will give the Choson a more distinct look and feeling. First we have the heavy cavalry with heavy platemail (with platemail pants!!!) and plate turtle neck armor... and then we have the lightly armored and sophisticated hwarang (with makeup!!!). Two very different troop types that together form the ways of a united faction.

By the way, I really like the two historical forums you are a moderator for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kageka

Hoggy


Gubook Jangoon

I see what you're coming at about the Hwarang-do, and I think thats the right way to go. It will give the Choson a more distinct look and feeling. First we have the heavy cavalry with heavy platemail (with platemail pants!!!) and plate turtle neck armor... and then we have the lightly armored and sophisticated hwarang (with makeup!!!). Two very different troop types that together form the ways of a united faction.

By the way, I really like the two historical forums you are a moderator for.

---

Haha that would be the idea. Hm..the Goguryeo calvalry were more lamellar armour types than plate mail though. Hehe..

I'm glad you like the sites I work at. :D

Oops, sorry plate maile is lammellar. Haha, my bad. :bow:

I've also found this site.

http://warmemo.co.kr/english/exhibition/02/ex_02_02.htm

The ones that would be pertinant to this project would be the 3 kingdoms, Koryo, and Chosun sections. The Taehan empire may help a bit.

http://world.kbs.co.kr/src/images/ak...k/050530_l.jpg
http://haenara.net/bbs/zboard/data/h...rea_02_72p.jpg


I also wanted to bring this Goguryeoan wall mural to attention.

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/1281/0175_2.jpg


In it one can see both Archers/Crossbowmen and Axemen.

The Archers are wearing the black hats, different from the Amish style hats of Joseon, and have armor. On the other hand the Axemen wear red hats and have no armor.

Here's a clearer view of the axemen.

http://img65.exs.cx/img65/5936/images_Soldiers.jpg


Here are some other Goguryeo pictures.

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/8492/cavalry1.jpg
http://img65.exs.cx/img65/1592/images_ArmyMarch.jpg
http://img65.exs.cx/img65/6050/images_ArmyMarch2.jpg
http://img65.exs.cx/img65/180/images_chariot.jpg
http://img65.exs.cx/img65/317/images_koguryo-29.jpg
http://img65.exs.cx/img65/2337/kubuk.jpg
http://img65.exs.cx/img65/7259/ssirumkoguryo.gif
http://img65.exs.cx/img65/4803/demonsfriend.gif
http://img68.exs.cx/img68/931/koguryoiskorea.jpg
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/4082/mailarmor.jpg



Here's stuff from Joseon.
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/7876/hwacha.jpg
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/7739/newyi.jpg
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/ind...ype=post&id=78


Gaya federation: They were generally plate armor oriented. But this type of armor was proved inferior to the more popular lamellar type of the other kingdoms.

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/2185/gaya-9.jpg
http://img139.exs.cx/img139/7325/0150_2.jpg
http://img46.exs.cx/img46/8043/kaya1.jpg

Miscellaneous:
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/8076/horse11.jpg

Well, its great work this mod, i've seen. I can hardly wait the mod releasing.
anyway, have you some time for more Korean information?

1. Symbol
The ancient Korean respect some supernatural subjects.

The Sky - It is holded in common on Manchu-Siberian. the origin of Korean race(called "Han" race) came from there. many traditional cultures of Northern Asia(Manchu, Mongol, Siberia) are similiar with each other. frankly, Korean is more akin to Mongolian than Chinese. The Sky is equivalent to The GOD. it is not Creator, but Harmonizer. The old tale tell us that the first Korean people came from the Sky.

The BongHwang(Phoenix) - The Imaginary symbol of Chinese is the Dragon. But them of Korean are Birds. The BongHwang is one of them. "Bong" means King of birds, "Hwang" means Queen. The Ancient Han-race use this for their symbol.

The SamJokOh(tripod-crow) - Another bird symbol. The crow with tripod means Sun. or an envoy of gods. GoGuRyo Kingdom use this symbol.
I think this is the best symbol for this mod. it's artistic design can't be out-of-fashioned. you can see it below.
http://www.hsdu.ac.kr/01_about/img/p5_04.gif
http://ekee.nafeel.net/pattern/bird/img/bird06.jpg
http://www.asadal.com/company/asadal...logo_img01.gif
(I don't know why JFA-Japan Football Association use this their symbol. :dizzy2: )

another symbols:
the Tiger is always friendly animal with Korean.
the Blue-Red TaeGuk(Taichi, Yin-Yang) is relatively modern symbol used after 19c.
White is symbolic color of Korean.


2. Strategy & Arms
The major weapon of Korean is the bow. From beginning to the end, the bow is domestic. "DongYi", other name of Han-race called by Chinese means "Eastern Great Bow-man". yes, Korean is a natural-born archer.
Less plain, more forests and mountains make battle strategy of Han race restricted. Carvalry is difficult to use. Heavy Armor? its non-sense.

well, there is no rule without execption. "GaeMa Carvalry" is it. The GoGuRyo Empire had great iron covering carvalries. they command the Continent. but you must know this. GoGuRyo was not settled on Han-penninsular. they ruled Manchu - the great plain of northern Asia.

except "GaeMa", many of korean soldiers used bow and spear for their primary weapon.

sword or knife are rared. most soldiers are not standing army. they had no time for learning swordmanship. the spear is easy to learn. and it is effective in melee.
"DangPa" is the most basic weapon for ChoSeon Dynasty Infantry. it is a kind of trident. it is two handed weapon. so they can't use shields.
http://www.ohmynews.com/down/images/1/bluekb_161058_6[225566].jpg

"JangChangDang(Long-Spear-Party)" is Korean Hoplite(?). its usage is similiar with those of Spartan. the infantry of Shilla use this Long-Spear for stopping charge of carvalry. the length of spear is about 4m 80cm. they stop the charge, and make to fall the enemy riders down. then, the axe-man attack the fallen riders.

most soldiers had light armor - cloths, leather. on Korean topographical condition, heavy armor is uncomfortable. after long-ranged arrow shotting, fast charge and hit is the capital offensive strategy. on deffensive, they use covering. like mountain, forests, castle, fortress. so, there is no need for shields or heavy armor.

I think Korean bowmen is analogous to English Long-Bowmen. The range of Korean Bow is above 150m. maximum is 500m. it might be terrific for their enemy. many generals who had invaded to Korea are killed by arrow, not sword.

The Officers had the sword. but it was not for melee. it was used for commanding or self-protection. the principal majors of officer training were horse-riding and archery. even civillians trained archery. they believe it should be good at mental training.
so, light carvalry armed with bow. the horseback archery was most important skill for carvalry. After GoGuRyo, heavy carvalry is not used any more.

Officers weared cloth or leather armor for activity. Generals weared Studded Leather Armor, Scale Male, Brigandine Armor. Heml was also.

Rockets and Powder is another power of Korean. When Japanese developed musketguns, Korean developed cannons.
The granade was used in late 14c.
"ShinGiJeon(Mystic-Arrows)" is definitely very interesting weapon. it is old version of nowadays MLRS. with power of powder, multi-big rockets(lenght about 140cm) are shot automatically. the range is about 1000m. it was invented by in 1448. it is the oldest rocket weapon in the world.
http://bingoimage.naver.com/data/bin...olove20_33.jpg
http://bingoimage.naver.com/data2/bi...8/fhdps_24.jpg

"HwaRang"s are not soldiers. they are similiar with "Boy-Scouts". they learn and train for future honor. most of them are son of nobles. so they respect honor and loyalty. if it shall come in this mod, it is good to describe them like light cavalries or junior chivalries.



oops. too long. sorry for my poor English. I hope this useful for more fantastic BL.
i hope to tell you more about real historic Korean war-heroes soon.
have a nice day.

Eouia

Cool and interesting facts about ancient/medieval Korean warfare and spirituality.


But you got to have in mind that this mod ain't a historical mod (atleast I have understand it that way). Blue Lotus is rather a myth-based fantasy-mod based on Asian cultures and mythologies.

This gives Hoggy & Co freedom to alter things, meaning that the Choson (Korean faction) doesn't have to follow one single historical time-period by the numbers. They can add and withdraw attributes to make the faction more interesting and diverse.

Guess you already figured that out but I had to say it anyway.



I personally like the idea of commanding Goguryo-based Heavy Cavalry with full body platemail armor and plate turtleneck armor. This combined with robe wearing archers with hats and so on...

A faction with two extremes (we have heavy armored melee cavalry and the we got different types of light/non armored infantry mainly focused on archery) and no real allround units would be interesting and "unique".

It may not be historically correct but it will look good and really give Choson a distinct look that doesn't reminds of the two Chinese factions.

Here is an interesting article for Korean military-arts. (nice pictures are on the link.)
http://ohmynews.com/articleview/arti...60856&ar_seq=2

The traditional Korean Military-Arts show is going on everyday in "Hwa Castle", Suwon, Korea.

"MuYe 24Gi"(The 24 Skills of Military-Arts) was arragned on AD.1790.(in era of King JeongJo, ChoSeon Dynasty)
Officers of Army had to study those. the skills are composed with variable weapons or physical masterys. u can see the English description of those from here
http://www1.suwon.ac.kr/~bluekb/martial.html

Some really excellent stuff guys. I'll try to bear as much in mind as possible when concepting the korean faction. Top stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kageka

Hoggy

One question though; there doesn't seem to be any monk units for ranged combat (such as archers, javelin chuckers, crossbow men...)... or is the Masters-unit some kind of battle mage able to throw balls of fire or bolts of lightning?

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oops sorry missed this kageka, the masters will hurl flaming blue lotuses as a deadly missile weapon.

Hoggy

Ah cool. Feels like the Monks are the head act in the game (Blue Lotus) in one way... their symbol is a blue lotus and their ranged units fires burning blue lotuses. ~:cheers:


Well I watched the army lists once again (well I love those concept pics you have drawn, wonderful stuff) and there was one unit that I felt to be a wee bit "misplaced" and superfluous.


I am talking about the Tibetan Infantry.

1.
First of all I think that the name doesn't fit. The reason is that world of Blue Lotus is a fictional fantasy/mythological world, not our world. Thats the way I have understand it after reading all your (an your crew's) posts about the game. Therefore there can't be no Tibet. Ok there may be a place similar to Tibet, but i doubt that it will have the same name as our world's Tibet. Call them something else... maybe Northern Guardsmen.

2.
Secondly I doesn't see the use for the Tibetan Infantry in an army as broad AND specialized as the two Chinese ones. I mean we have four spear/pike-using infantry unit types already. Two of them wear helmets and armor and one of them have shields as well. I think that the four other spear man-units have their potent place and using in war, which render the Tibetan Infantry superfluous.

3.
The Tibetan Infantry concept pic and the 3D-model is excellent in every way, so I don't think that it should be nerfed from the mod though. I think that the Tibetan Infantry (Northern Guardsmen?... ~D ) should be an mercenary unit able to be hired in some mountain-territory resembling to Tibet or Nepal.

4.
Another option is to include the Tibetan Infantry (Northern Guardsmen?... ~;) ) into the Monk-faction. Why do I suggest this? Well if remember it correct the Monk-faction was to be inspired/influenced by Buddism and Tibet. Well why not make the Tibetan Infantry the cheap stand-back defence typ-o unit?

This will also make the Monk army list a bit more interesting due more units to choose from.


Well that was just some thoughts of mine. I don't know if they can contribute to anything though.

I disagree with you Kageka.
I think the Tibetan Infantry have a very good purpose, namely as specialty troops. To be more specific they should get a hefty bonus for being in the woods and a modest bonus for being in snow. This way they can make great anchors for your spear line, while the other spearmen severe only as general troops maybe even have a disadvantage in snow due to heavy armor.
As to they're name, i personally like Tibetain Infantry, if you say northern guard then they would be associated with Mongolia, however if you say Tibetan everyone has a clear idea of thier climate and temperment.
Also i think you raise a valid point about thier affiliation, to me it would make sense that they are extremely disciplined due to thier buddhist upbringing and could also work for the monks (possibly under a different name, i.e. Tibetan Templars) but i don't think they should be mercanaries due to thier elite nature and added historical context.

DragoonXXIV

Hmm, well you have a good point about the Tibetan Infantry doing its purpose as a specialized unit. A sturdy unit meant for fighting in snow and woods. But still, there are already four spear-based units... I have a hard time to understand how none of them, in constellations with other trooptypes, can't fight properly without a fifth spear unit such as Tibetan Infantry. I can't help it but I really find the Tibetan Infantry more as a Monk faction unit option than a Zuanshi/Yuwan (Chinese) unit option.


I still think its wrong to name the unit Tibetan Infantry. I mean its like adding a archer type of unit in a "Middle Earth" game and call it English Longbowmen, while there is no England (and therefor no englishmen)in "Middle Earth". Same goes for the tibetans. There are no Tibet in Blue Lotus because its a asian mythological fantasy world, not our world (atleast I have understand it that way), and therefore there are no tibetans.


I agree with you that the substitute name I suggested is misleading. Northern Guardsmen leads the thoughts to Mongolia. But instead they could be called Templar Guardsmen, Monastery Infantry, Templar Infantry, Mountain Guardsmen, Monastery Guardsmen or Mountain Infantry.

Another idea could be to exchange the prefix Tibetan and change it for something that sounds pretty much the same or just reminds of tibetan.

(Lhasa) Lhasar Infantry
(Tibetan) Tibhutan Infantry
(Ladakh) Laudak Infantry
(Amda, Kundun) Umdun Infantry


Just some suggestions and ideas from a (I hope not that annoying) Blue Lotus fan.