what units will sluaghter chariots?
i hate the egyptians becouse of their chariots.
is their a unit that will easily kill them off?
:duel:
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what units will sluaghter chariots?
i hate the egyptians becouse of their chariots.
is their a unit that will easily kill them off?
:duel:
Hoplites!
What faction are you playing?
I hear you. I hate fighting against them and I personally think they are useless to fight with. Hoplites and decent pikemen like phalanx or silver shields. I usually target them immediately with my archers, but in the late game I usually field with 6 onagers. The moment I see chariots I blast them with fireballs.
A small nuclear weapon? That might work. I emphasise on the might.
even the worst archers in the game will annihilate chariots when set to fire arrows.
Only problem with trying to get them with archers is if they are egyptian chariots. The eggy chariots have archers with huge ranges, so they end up killing your archers before they come in range. Like i said, nothing short of a nuclear weapon can stop them. Heck, when i battled the amazons, it took me half an hour to mop them all up, because they kept running away.
Archers aren't as useful against chariots at first from what I've experienced. In opening battle, I've shot at a single unit of chariots with 5 heavily concentrated units of archers and next to none died after I shot at least 4 volleys. Of course, once their morale starts wavering or they start routing, then my archers seem to have a greater effect.
Crapy infantry.
AKA cannon fodder. Just stop there momemtum and they die easaly...
Thats what peasants are for. ~D
Stop their momentum? Yes, that works for some chariots. Not for chariot archers. They always seem to cost a lot of my troops' blood to kill.
When playing the Romans, I used those El Cheapo throwaway skirmishers (Light Auxilia by that point). With that funky +4 bonus they get against chariots and elephants an outer layer of those guys generally mired the chariots quite well enough for the legionaires to charge in and reduce them into matchsticks.
Failing that (or having run out of disposable skirmishers), a deep formation of stationary legionaires generally seemed to absorb the charge well enough. Sure, the formation went to Hell, but actual casualties tended to be light and once the chariots stop moving they're pretty much goners.
I actually found the Pharaoh's Bowmen to be a bigger pain than the Chariot Archers. Auxilia Archers outrange the CAs, but cannot hit the PBs who're making pincushions out of the first-line units (aka "melee wall") without moving to a relatively unprotected forward position.
I usually resolved the matter by sending a few packs of Warhounds to occupy the guys with funny bows. The mutts normally got slaughtered, of course, but by the time they were all down I'd usually done something dreadful to the rest of the Egyptian horde. The doggies didn't seem to work very well on the chariots, by the way.
Dogs work against chariots. I don't know what works against.... excrement (I never encountered any hurlers of the thing as of yet).
Btw, since when is language like that tolerated around here?
It isn't hrvojej.Quote:
Originally Posted by hrvojej
brutii_warrior, since you are new, I'll remind you that profanity is not allowed here. Please review our Forum Rules. Thank you for your cooperation.
Whenever I play with charriots the only thing that really scares me are ballistas. They have the range to hit every chariot and kill with a single shot.
However, if you are using unit sizes above average I reccomend to mod the numbers of ballistas per unit. 2 Ballistas take a long long time to bring some 50 charriots down.
Egyptian chariots are tough to face because they have high mass, multiple hit points, a dangerous scythe attack, and they are fast, using a horse model that has the fast horse skeleton rather than the standard horse. This allows them to zip in and out causing havoc to your forces with ranged weapons, or smashing into vulnerable points. Historically, chariots were not quite so mobile as cavalry and had real trouble with anything other than smooth ground. (About the only real praise you will hear of them in the time period is Caesar praising the way the British celts used their light chariots.) Mass determines the penetrating quality in the game.
If you can ever bog them down they die quickly, and the are quite good at killing their own when under archer fire inside a city during a siege...I've seen them mow down many hundreds of their own before with the scythes, leaving only a few chariots and men for my forces to mop up.
In my game they never tend to kill their own unless if they are running amok (modded that to all chariots). They knock people down but don't kill.
The best case of a unit of chariots running amok was when I pelted a unit of Pontic chariots with arrows until they ran amok. They took out almost an entire unit of Eastern Infantry (broke and ran), a unit of peltasts (broke and ran) and killed the general. About 200 dead enemies and a formation devastated.
Chariots - we hates them we hates them we hates them precious :furious3:
Pharaoh Bowmen - I fear them, how many units have they returned to me with 1 or 2 men remaining - cavalry, spears, they cannot be killed - THEY ARE DEMONS ~:eek:
Actually, I think Cretan Archers have range equal to that of the Egyptian chariot archers. Try sending a family member to Crete or Asia Minor to pick up some mercenaries.
Scythed chariots are easy to deal with, once you kill 3 chariots they run amok. Hillmen I've found are the best at overwhelming a chariot unit. With 4 units of hillmen in 1 battle I killed 2 Egyptian generals and 1 unit of chariot archers. But of course that was back when basic horse archers worked right.
Egyptian onces are rough as they won't run amok... and if the terrain is right they will easily close in before arrows do much to them anyway.
Best is probably slow them down with mass infantries then mob them. age old tactics that never really fail :bow:
Elephants seem to work quite well for the Seleucids - followed up by infantry.
:charge:Quote:
Originally Posted by Magraev
Playing the Egyptians I find my chariots quite vulnerable to cavalry-attacks. Even light cav will inflict enough damage/kills to my chariots to make them route. So you may use light-cav for flanking. They have enough in numbers and are maybe fast enough. So :charge: and hope for the best.
Hope this works,
Blacknek
The problem with cavalry is that the chariots have a nasty tendency to kill any cavalryman that gets close. The factor that drops infantry kills cavalry. So chariots are possibly the best cavalrykillers out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacknek
The worst case has to be Chariot Archers as they can kill a number of pursuers before turning and butcher them. You have to catch them off guard to get them with cavalry.
I'm playing as Numidia now, and have no heavy cavalry other than the general unit, and very little infantry of quality as it takes 2 turns to build the best Numidian infantry: Numidian Legionaries. The Egyptian chariot archers have been very tough to deal with.
After trying some costly tactics, I came up with an approach that works. I deploy 2 units of archers far forward of the rest of my troops and split so they can cover the approaches to my flanks that chariots love to exploit. I set these archers to use fire arrows and watch them carefully as the battle develops. About 50 yards behind these archers, I have 2 more units deployed in the same fashion. Another 50 yards, and I have the infantry line set with my best slinger unit in front of them. Just behind the line, there will be an experienced Numidian javelinmen unit. Then, if I have them available, 3 onagers, set to use fire, about 6 camel cavalry, 2 or 3 longshields and the general.
If chariots charge my front archers, the return fire begins from the second wave of archers and all 3 onagers. If they bum rush the archers with desert cav and their chariots, the front 2 archer units are pretty much toast, but the rear 2 survive, and you can countercharge with camels to neutralize all the Egyptian horse units. Since they will have little or no cavalry or chariots left after that, your remaining missiles can support the infantry, and your remaining cavalry can move out to the flanks to assist.
You have to be able to beat chariot units of any kind to decisively beat the Egyptians. That can be quite challenging without heavy cavalry or superior archers.
I had some success with hitting them with cavalry right after they break through a infantry formation. I think the moment they turn they are most vulnerable.
Mounted javelineers weren't half bad either, if I recall correctly. If nothing else a swarm of them keeps the chariots preoccupied.
But by all that is holy, do not use the Cantabarian if you send horse javelins after the chariots. They do not bolt away fast enough in that and usually end up dying in scores when the chariots move forwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
LOL!!! ~:cheers: Yes, the egyptian chariots are very bit as fast as the lightest cav, so Cantabarian circle would not be the...uhhhh...first choice.
Turn off skirmish with cantebarian circle for much better results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
Why can't you just mod em?
I love chariots. ~D
hey your ideas about taking down chariots worked but now i've stumbled across another annoyance:
flaxmen
they are a real pain in the ***. if you know what i mean!
i think an army with chariots and flaxmen is nearly an unbeatable army.
:duel:
luckily all the factions that get flaxman don't get chariots :P
what faction you playing as though? usually a good phalanx formation easily smash them (against the AI ofcourse.. against human it's usually the other way around.) if ur playing non phalanx faction like Romans though, best idea is to charge them with lots and lots of cavlary + dogs.
Seriously though... a good mass chariot charge in the right condition will beat the living hell out of anything except maybe elephants.... in my selucid game i had quiet a laugh combining chariots elephants and mass calvary in a single charge... i didn't even care for the mass phalanx the AI kept using... they still go strait throught.
dont we all, i usually play as greeks and since they have virtually no cav and only cretan archers, my phalanx based army has been wiped out by ppl who seem to use nothing but chariots:furious3:, just use velites, or any kind of javelin throwing troops to counter them
I just avoid fighting such units unless it is on my terms. Before I attack Egypt I make sure i have at least 5 to 6 experienced assassins with some spies. They penetrate the land and wait. I send a diplomat to Antioch with the huge walls (along with an army or two with Heavy Onagers) and make some ridiculous demands to accept or they'll be attacked. Then I attack and take Antioch that turn hopefully. I also have diplomats beforehand getting good relations with their northern neighbors to increase the pressure from the north since they'll usually attack them if the offer is good enough. This forces egypt to empty out a lot of units in their capitol to reinforce the northern cities and meet other nations armies. That very same turn I have navies offshore which then blockade their ports. I then start sabotaging archery ranges or cav buildings - generally I focus on one or the other (mainly PB) as fighting only one type of those nightmares is okay since they'll come to you making it easier since you have a city to hide behind or in. After a couple years of holding Antioch I send a couple armies to take the pyramids only via ship by the 4th to 5th turn. That then drops their ecomony further and I can hide behind the walls of the city. I'll then hold the pyramids, keep my blockade up, and whatever assassins are left I have on the coast where I'm most likely to catch a general (and a chariot that means). I keep my spies roaming the cities to make sure they aren't able to rebuild facilities to build PB's mainly. I build and ship a couple more armies over and what I'm mostly encountering then is regular bowmen along with a lighter screen of chariots and some nile spearmen and such. Not nearly as deadly and easier to go on the offensive against. Generally that is about 10-12 years fromt he start of the offensive. Until then I hold myself up in the two cities and keep a blockade on them.
For city defense, if they send onagers with chariots... I'm happy. Chariots die quickly in city streets against masses of legionaires or if necessary, town watch to abosrb the impact followed by my Gladiators running in and taking the chariots out rather quickly. If they send what PB's they have left, I just keep my army back far neough that my wall defenses will pepper them if they want to try and reach me. If they break through the walls I then let the soldiers come to me. A few well placed unts gets you behind any spearmen, the chariots can be dealt with by town watch followed up by Gladiators once they slow to a halt. Any PB's which are harrassing me then get charged by my light cav (Alt clicked attack) if they haven't chosen to retreat the cav will generally force them to route, albeit at heavy losses.
I've just found going against Egpyt without economic warfare to prep them is near suicidal. PBs and chariots are devastating, period on vh/vh. You'll need a solid navy along with seasoned assassins and with generally friendly relations or good defensive positions with others around your main provinces to allow your other holdings to ship reinforcements into antioch and the nile delta constantly. Gladiators especially since they won't be able to be immediately built and are necessary for chariots - though regular spearmen auxilla work well enough and are readily available. While fighting Egypt this way is time consuming and can be expensive in the cost to assassins as they eventually will begin to faul missions and die regardless of exp and expensive in maintenance as a navy to blockade egypt and still maintain some control over your own coast is expensive. Once they are beaten though those cost get recouped rather quickly thanks to the economy of the region.
I generally use a couple numidian mercs and a couple cav auxilla to keep chariots busy enough when I'm attacking in the field to get a gladiator unit or two into the fray to clean up. Though before the gladiators hit I'll charge a depleted ammo cav unit into them to stall the chariots and prevent them from turning and steamrolling my gladiators/reg auxilla before they can use their nice bonuses against them. This usually results in a route of the cav, but it does result in the routing of the chariots as well once the gladiators or spearmen hit. So it's a fair tradeoff to me. The rest of the infantry and mostly normal bowmen can be handled like you'd handle any other phalanx heavy army. Force the phalanx lines to deal with heavy masses on the sides which usually opens a hole up in the middle. Since all but your general in terms of cav will be towards the edges, they generally split. That along with a couple Cretans or an Onager unit or two will help thin the middle before you force them to split or after just to weaken the center units incase they catch on to your general running the gap. Once that happens shifting a unit to the center to hold them in place (at losses) while my general charges headlong past the front line and into the archers (regular, PBs are dealy to generals in my exp.). Once they route if I'm having problems with the infantry I'll charge them into where I'm having the most trouble then generally pull him back for the duration to go after routing units. I'll also use the onagers to keep any PB units left under duress if they seem to be a bigger issue than the front line.
I don't use bribing for the most part as it just doesn't seem all that realistic - although my my knowledge of ancient warfare isn't what I'd like it to be. So if this was common I may start using it to some degree. I only use cash when asking for peace or other diplomatic initiatives.
Dealing with any chariots as Roman factions isn't that hard. You have all the resources you need, starting with cheap expendable Velites. You can always smother them if you are willing to throw away enough cavalry. I think other civs like Greece, or Gaul could have extreme difficulty with chariot archers.
Greece get the quite powerful Heavy Peltasts, they should make the chariots go away like a bad headache.