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Post here if like me you intend not to buy any new CA game or extension until CA changes there attitude towards patching and customer support.
That should give us and CA an idea of the severity of the problem and how much revenue gain or loss they may have by not fixing the problem...
Guess I'm the only one... :laugh2:
CA, don't bother to fix it, it's not worth it just for my $50 worth...
Not so fast, I think everyone is still in shock over the official response. I agree with you, unless things change greatly, this is my last TW game. Slitherine has Legion2 coming at the end of this year and with the Arena combat engine, it might be an acceptable alternative to TW. Slitherine also respects and listens to the community. TW is teetering on the brink.
I agree. I have no intention of shelling out for any further products if things don't improve.
I'm unhappy with CA support.
Gamebreaking bugs should be confirmed and fixed in hotfix.
But, will I buy some other CA game depends how good that game is, not from the final state of RTW.
i am unhappy with CA's support
I still like RTW and consider it playable, but their utter lack of respect for the community and the rest of their costumers is quite disgusting. If I buy another CA release, it will be at least 6 months after the release and if no serious bug reports are floating around.
Well i'm unhappy
juz hope they DO care....
my hope is all but gone.
Thankfully it ain't a big part of my life :)
I'm not being sarcastic here, but AFAIK, CA doesn't have any formal customer support. Is there an actual customer service group in the organization? I thought you could only formally complain to the publisher.
The statements above not withstanding, I do feel that those communications about their products which CA staff have chosen to make have been very unsatisfactory in both their approach to the customer, and the content of those messages.
There seems to be no understanding of the "customer is always right" maxim. If the customer perceives something as a bug, it needs attention, whether the devs agree with them or not. Simply saying that your (the customer's) definition of a bug and our (CA's) definition don't agree is not sufficient to solve the problem, and it leads to bad blood.
As I've said all along, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a game which is free of major bugs; not a game free of ANY bugs, just the MAJOR ones. The save game files are not complete, and so DATA IS LOST. The program cannot respond correctly because it no longer has the data. If that doesn't define a bug, I don't know what would.
There is no CA support for their products. Unless there are visible changes and CA starts respecting the community, this is the LAST CA product I buy.
I have formally apologized to everyone I ever recommended RTW to, which should give you some indication how I feel.
Very unhappy and displeased with CA's handeling of this issue. The least they could have done was be more courteous and diplomatic while refusing to instantly patch the game, while also promising to fix this issue in the expansion.
Anyhow, I suppose there is an element in the company which wants to show the community its place...
:embarassed:
Never did recommend RTW to anyone. From the day the demo came out the game seemed flawed and never got much better. Thank god for modders. Still, I gave up playing RTW quite a while back. I hope CA gets it's act together soon. What the hell happened to them? They used to be a good game company!
im very dissalussioned with the games industry as a whole, with bethesda going console, & CA's put up or shut up attitude, it seems my favorite games are going to the dogs, having said that, i will probably give in to weakness & buy the EP, cos im a totally weak person with no principles :shame:
well I am unhappy with this it makes the game unchallenging for short period players like myself. I have all their other games but this is big. It should be in a patch. because it was shipped that way. If it is going to come out in an expansion fine then say so I'll shutup even though it is an unfair deal. even an unofficial patch would be good other companys do that all the time.
This sounds a bit like the old campaign ages ago...I think when RTW was first announced. It went something like "I will not buy RTW unless it has a MP campaign map". People even have it in there signatures for months and everything but alas it didn't seem to have much effect. (I even seem to remember someone from CA calling it "that silly MP campaign at the .org". :)
Anyway I'll post to say that I'm gravely disappointed with RTW (worst of the TW game series) as it could and should have been alot better...both from work during pre-release and especially support for patch after release.
Cheers
Starkhorn
i can forgive rome's initial shortcomings. however i cannot bring myself to forgive them for their customer relations and support thereafter. not at this time, and by the looks of things, maybe never.
I am severly disappointed with CA customer support. I will spend my money on one of the many similar but better supported games coming out soon.
I was exceptionally happy with them as a company BEFORE the demo.
I recall ranting about how they've reinstated faith in me as a consumer of these entertaiment packages which transport us back into the times of old, reenacting our own famour glory filled sagas. Ensemble Studios now holds the last bastion for me on that end.
/signed
You know it took me a while to actually figure out what the problem was here regarding the customer support rendered by CA, now that I have however, I would like to make a few comments if I may.
First of all, as far as I know Activision holds all the purse strings. They control all the money. I.E. no money, no patch. All the knowledge and reporting of bugs in the world will be for naught if there is no money or time to build a patch. If I'm wrong about this, let me know, but I've always been of the mind that the publisher holds all the strings when it comes to financing.
Secondly, I can understand the comments CA has made, whether or not I agree with them. In this kind of game opinion will vary from person to person, and it's really hard to tell whos point of view is accurate. I can no more say that CA is a bad company and wants to screw me over, than I can say that the community of players is 100% correct and deserves restitution, to be honest I don't know what is driving all this angst.
Thirdly, we, as consumers are directly responsible for this situation, not CA or Activision. Let me elaborate: Games are released with bugs because people will still buy them. CA could have released RTW as an unplayable pile of garbage and thousands and thousands of people would still have bought it on the day of release. In my own experience I couldn't get any enjoyment out of RTW until the 1.2 patch, when I finally got back into the game. Of course, my 49.95 had already been spent, and obviously I contribute to the problem. The fact is, game publishers want to release fast and when the profits will be highest and since for every person who complains about the issues there are thousands who don't care, the strategy works. The only way to stop this cycle is to refuse to buy games on release. To hit the publisher in the pocket book and refuse to pay for substandard product. Unfortunately I don't see that happening, ever. The games will be released in as "raw" a state as the consumer will be willing to accept. And, much of the time, we don't know if the game will be unplayable or perfect when the release date comes. This is all ecconomics and marketering, and our only recourse is to not play the game (pardon the pun).
Finally, I still enjoy RTW. In my case it's probably because I'm not that great a player on the campaign map and I still find some challenge in the game on hard difficulty (well not on the battle map, but anyway). I've always felt the design of RTW was overly complex in many places and if anything I think that's the games biggest weakness. Squallor being one of the most prominent examples of what I might consider a flawed attempt at designing difficulty into the game. We have to be careful, in that it is quite possible to mistake bad design for a bug, and vice versa. Anyway I just wanted to give my two cents, it's best not to be losing our minds over this sort of thing.
I don't think anyone; well not most; are losing their minds, I think it's because RTW is so good it just makes people mad. If there was any willingness by CA to be more flexible with their damn two patch limit this would not be such a huge issue. Hell, if they would even admit there is a problem and simply say that they simply can't patch it but would correct it in the expansion; there would be little concern. As it is now, I am doubtful if CA will even attampt to correct it since according to them, there is nothing to correct.
I used to enjoy waiting those last few days before the release date of games I had been following for months and even years; the anticipation was great; but after this fiasco, I will never buy a game on release day again. It's just not safe. Just a symptom of the sorry state of the gaming industry I guess. I really hope CA wakes up and at some point says that even though it's not a bug, the expansion will include a change that will eliminate the AI reassessment feature.
Just imagine if the pri-sec bug had not been caught by the community in time for patch 2.
Very unhappy here and will wait 3 months until after expansion to buy the product.
Might I also recommend offering some BAD REVIEW ON AMAZON?
I think ';ll go there soon and leave one.
I am unhappy with their product support.
I will not buy anything from them anymore. I have other things to do than fighting bugs.
I actually sold my copy of RTW to a neighbour. Be sure that I will not purchase RTW + xp unless CA fix some major issues. Meanwhile I am happy playing MTW VI.
I'm not unhappy with the product. I accept games, particularly those of the strategy genre, are much bigger in size these days and will contain quite a few bugs on release. However, what I'm unhappy with is that despite games getting larger and more complex in nature (and therefore likely to contain more bugs), the patching policy has remained in the past and is no different to when CA released and supported Shogun TW.
Surely the level of support has to evolve at the same rate as the complexity and size of the game. To me, Rome TW is an prime example of what happens when this balance isn't maintained and support hasn't evolved with the complexity of the product. Other similar strategy titles like Civ3 and EU2 had MUCH better post-release support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius_Nepos
And you've summed up the contradiction right there. No, it's not our fault as consumers, because we are left with no other way to decide if the product is good than buying the product. And once we've done so, few places allow us to return it if we didn't like it.Quote:
And, much of the time, we don't know if the game will be unplayable or perfect when the release date comes. This is all ecconomics and marketering, and our only recourse is to not play the game (pardon the pun).
It's just like Gregoshi said in another thread, if all us choose to wait on the expansion to see if it's any good, how will we know if it's any good? Someone has to buy it to report to the rest of us.
Bh
Bhruic has a point here, of course there is no way to know the condition of say, an expansion to RTW, unless someone goes out and buys it to find out. However, my point was more or less that publishers of games are willing to release shoddy product (often over the protests of the developers) since customer complaints will be few, and they'll still buy when the game comes out.
I was just making the point that the only way to ensure games come out with the fewest bugs possible is to NOT accept bug-riddled Games when they hit the shelves. This would involve word-of-mouth and actually convincing a majority of potential buyers not to buy. I don't know how anyone would do that, but if it could be done, AND if people were willing to wait another 6-12 months for their games, then we'd have much better product upon release. In alot of ways it is about changing the attitudes of BOTH the consumer and the publisher.
My excitement about the potential Barbarian Invasion expansion is the fact that it will likely cover the 5th century and the fall of Rome, a period of history of which I'm very familiar. Anyway hope it actually turns out to be what we've been waiting for. Cheers!
i dont meen to offend or grumble at the c.A but im unhappy that they hvnt updated there website. I dont think this belongs in this forum but any way. I would like to se a few more alternate desighns for units e.c.t. I dont want to many as to put peopl of buying an expanshion just a few more skins and also some bug fixers
;)
sorry i forgot to spell check
I'm certainly not paying Creative Assembly any more.
In a game as complex as RTW, one or even two patches will never be enough to fix bugs, especially one that is obvious such as the load/save game bug.
The problem with the load/save game bug means that it will be present in all the mods that are currently being developed for RTW.
What will this do to modding for RTW now?
Should modders return to MTW?
I too am one very unhappy with CA support, especially the long silence and the latest response. "It's a FEATURE, not a bug!" Hah I have to admit that's a good one. Very clever in fact. Dodge the problem and its solved. Reminds me of the pointy hair boss in Dilbert. We should have seen it coming ~;)
Now since now they call it a "feature", that means the crappy AI not expanding must be a feature! CA must have thought this is what we all want in the first place and *purposely* make the AI the way it is. In that case, I will not even consider buying another CA game in the future, because CA thought we like dumb games or whatever. I urge you all to do the same! CA just said it is a feature and NOT a bug, it tells a lot what kind of games they will make in the future.
You wouldn't know it from the title, but the Your Homework for Today thread actually contains a very good idea on this issue IMHO. Post a review of RTW on Amazon, now that you know about the load bug and CA's response to it. Maybe CA marketing will start to wonder why the average rating for their product took a nosedive and exert pressure on the devs to actually run the tests we asked for and see the bug for themselves.
I always rate the game 3/10 on every site i get the option to rate the game,
I think CA and Activision Suck,
And i Always hated game spy since they wiped out Mplayer.
Im also agrivated at EA but there ya go.
If it wasnt for these ppl id have nothing to complain about.
ShambleS
:bow:
Julius Nepos is quite right: Game companies only get away with releasing unfinished products because indiscriminate consumers buy them. This won't change any time soon, so the best thing we can do is chill out and sit on the sidelines when the next GOTTAGETIT!!! product comes out. If it survives examination by the eager involuntary beta testers, then fine, let's buy it. If not, well, there's always the next prospect. Meanwhile there are plenty of other, better games to play. And in the unlikely event we temporarily run out of good games, as a last resort we can always spend some time with the spouse and kids. ~:)
On a more personal note, I'd like to thank all the involuntary RTW beta testers for saving me considerable $, time, frustration, and disappointment on a game I was eagerly anticipating. I hope they draw some consolation from the knowledge that their sacrifices have not been in vain. :iloveyou:
point is, would they even check the user reviews at amazon? they don't even care abt us at .com or here...a FANSITE let alone amazon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pode
They have no PR deparment so would they even know abt amazon user reviews?
all i say, life goes on, games dissapoint and this is just one of many. Greener pastures ahead but it does not lie with CA based on recent events...
:wall:
Guys now I know why they included this "feature"! Whenever we decided to lay siege to the CA building, they would just hit reload and we're gone!
The directors of CA should grow some balls and sack some of the idiots responsible for
a/ Mismanaging the project so that its initial release was below an acceptable standard
b/ Mismanaging the QA on both initial and patch release so that it was below an acceptable standard
c/ Deciding that remaining bugs should be fixed in an expansion pack so we have to pay £20 more is acceptable
d/ This absolute crappy nonsense and propaganda fest we are being fed currently about 'its a feature' and 'there is no bug'. Has CA been bought out by a political part cos thats how they are acting.
Grow some balls CA. If i was responsible for these shortfalls i would expect the sack, hold my hands up and say "sorry guys I f**ked up" burt there contined behaviour is an insult to all who have ever supported TW. GGGGGRRRRRR
How about a public apology or at least some more conversation in the forums like 'the good old days'. They would only gain respect from that.
Maybe... just maybe all the bugs will be fixed in the XP due out later this year. Just been on the .com forums and Keii found this:
Search 'total war' in following site :
---- www.gamestop.com ----
The price is $35... OK...
I don't want to start a thread about that, but what's artificial about informing customers of severe flaws in a software, I don't have an Amazon account but if I was to write a review I would certainly not give a good mark for the game in it's current form...Quote:
MODERATOR ...I'm not happy with this forum being used for a campaign to artificially lower the games rating on Amazon. Thread closed, as, for now will anymore started with this intention.
Any strategy gamer who expects to be able to continue a saved campaign and have that campaign continue as though they were playing continuously better not buy anymore CA products. CA have now officially admitted that they don't design their games that way.
I am disappointed, with the lack of support from CA
It shore is a promising game but they need to make us feel part of it.
Maybe CA will only listen again, when they need the marketing and our money for a next expansion.
I have to admitt, the game RTW is good and like most games, it has bugs both major and minor ones.
What's bad about it...CA customer support. They are unwilling to make more patches to fix them with their 1-2 patch only policy, even after the patch they made has creates new minor bugs, even though some can be fixed by modders, is it the right way to allow the customers to fix their products???
Now who wouldn't be pissed?
And the load save bug...to be honest guys, I am playing 1.2 but I too have experienced this problem where a city current under siege by the AI, suddenly drop their siege after a load game. Though it did occur sometimes but I also had experienced the AI continuing the siege after I load up the game. I had also experience a siege being discontinued after the AI has besieged it for sometime without invoking the load save.
From what CA had explained regading the load/save "bug", I'm beginning to feel that all this make some sense(though I am still a little skeptical). But I too feel that some players may to have blown up the issue and gathered a mob of mindless doomsayers behind them lol. I guess I am going to be flamed by the people for this statement but what the hack/ ~:handball:
Fair enough, CA is terrible in customer support and that makes it harder for them to convinced the people.
Perhaps next time CA will put some kind of elastic clause in about how many patches to have.
[QUOTE=AquaLurker]I guess I am going to be flamed by the people for this statement but what the hack/ ~:handball:
People are acting like CA is a used car salesmen who sold them a car with no wheels.
Can onwe of yous tell me how to contact one of them?
Maybe they should have offered us the used car price.
I thought I was buying a new mercedes benz.
Now I'm told they won't fix the odometer that resets each time you start the car, and yeah, some guy named Player 1 has a hobby and he'll fix your fan belt that keeps making noise.
If the load/save bug is not a bug, than why the protectorate problem?
And if it's true that the AI thinks better after save and load, then should we do that every turn? But that supposedly leads to NO changing of territory.
Just fix it with XP which I hope they will do. Or, if they want players to catch all the bugs and fix them, make the game open source.
By the way, I'd like to warn all fellow Amazon reviewers that some unscrupulous individual - no doubt a Creative Assembly lackey - is going down the list of reviewers at Amazon and giving us bad ratings.
i wont be buying the expanison or any future CA games unless they change. I have wasted so much time trying to get RTW to a decent standard that its a joke i paid 50$ for it. Its a good game but not worth the furstration it causes. As of now i have stopped playing RTW and wont start doing so again untill some more bad ass mods come out or CA gets their shit together.
The lackey has exposed himself, calling himself Tom the Magnificent, and has made a review containing at least one lie at Amazon in an attempt to counter the campaign.
It makes sense to me. I never really agreed with that Amazon thing. Pretty immature if you ask me. Doesn't have to be a CA "lackey" as you call him/her. Amazon wants to make some money too.
It will never end, i say just do ur part and move on. just as in the other thread, juz don't buy their games when they don't deserve our cash and time. It might be a die hard CA fan or CA itself, we don't know but don't get worked up over it, juz move on. Concentrate your efforts on better responses ~:)
better games or other parts of your life that we once neglected when we 1st played this game.
I don't see any reason to lie, especially since none of the reviewers have lied or even made a half-truth.
I request that everyone who embarks upon this campaign also report Tom the Manificent's review and also rate it badly. If enough people report it and rate it badly, they will look into it and may even remove it.
In addition, one of the future reviewers needs to point out that his review contains a lie.
Quote:
That said, there are indeed some bugs in the artificial intelligence of the game, but frankly there isn't a game in the real-time strategy genre that doesn't have probelems with the AI, especially 5 months after its release. As long as you're a rational person and not whipped up into a frenzy like the aforementioned people are, you will be able to overlook the bugs in the AI. They're not as noticeable as they would have you think."
Rather, his review contains two lies.
The only misleading I see is on his part and on Creative's Assembly's part.Quote:
Supposedly their exceedingly poorly-thought out objective is to pressure the Creative Assembly into fixing the bug by, in effect, misleading prospective buyers.
Neither of those things are lies Qviuntvs, you just don't agree with his opinion, there is a big difference. I have stated before threads abotu this campaign wiill not be supported on this forum. Thread closed.