EB news - Friday, April 8

Greetings, Europa Barbarorum fans!

We have some exciting things to share with you this week! First though we would like to thank everyone who fell for the traditional April Fool's joke (the Thebans and Illyria, for those of you who are still unaware). No big mod would be complete without one! We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did leading you all on!

This week, for you Phoenician freaks out there, we have a nice surprise: The (Carthaginian) Elite African Infantry, by Adherbal. The elite African Infantry represent both an adaptation to Roman tactics, and a force of extremely well trained and motivated soldiers whose purpose is to fight as a tough and seasoned heavy infantry. They wield good Iberian short swords, carry Iberian Scuta, and wear Roman mail armor with greaves and bracers.

http://img115.exs.cx/img115/6581/eliteafr67sk.jpg

Next, we know that while you Hellenophiles have been satisfied recently, not many of the barbarian lovers out there have seen new units. So this week we have a special presentation for you, a Germanic warband (models by Alin, textures by Webbird):

Here we have the Sahsnotaz, Ridon-Harjan, Bedilaz, Bugiz-Mannaz, and Swainaz. Followed by some unit closeups, including the Ridon-Harjan unmounted.

http://img115.exs.cx/img115/3661/ger...band6dz0ry.jpg
http://img115.exs.cx/img115/4629/hus...ow022sl0ox.jpg
http://img25.exs.cx/img25/7314/sashn...ow025un8ko.jpg
http://img25.exs.cx/img25/6481/triba...ow020fx6do.jpg

We have shared quite a bit with you over the past couple of months, but we still do have a few surprises in store. This week we would like to give you a preview of the work we're doing to improve the look of the campaign map, among other things. Eadingas and Alin have been hard at work here; the images you see below were created by Alin:

We've been working on the blockade graphic:
http://img25.exs.cx/img25/6886/13ir6he.jpg

Working on fleet models:
http://img25.exs.cx/img25/7710/15ti17xm.jpg

Working on making forests more dense/realistic:
http://img25.exs.cx/img25/7020/27on4fq.jpg

Working on the new siege model:
http://img117.exs.cx/img117/9287/66mp2tu.jpg

Working on a new barbarian "watchtower" model:
http://img117.exs.cx/img117/4606/71pi8ot.jpg

Watch this space for even more surprises in the future. We are still hopeful for an April open beta, but we have run into some issues with the 1.2 patch that may delay our release somewhat. We're as anxious to have this played as you are to play it.

Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures shown in our news posts are of works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and will do so long after our initial release.

As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them would be here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70

Or here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=60

We give special thanks to http://www.imageshack.us who provide us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

Have a wonderful day!

Sincerely,

-the EB team

awesomeness. i loved it all. :2thumbsup:
particularly liked all the new campaign map models.
also, i think the elite african infantry is my new favorite unit. ~:)

I guess Khelvan was in a "giving" mood today, hum? ~:)

Hooray!

Beautiful units and a nice touch in map features.

FINALLY, CARTHAGE'S RIGHTFUL ELITE INFANTRY!

:bow: ~D

Best update so far. I'm really excited to get my hands on this now more than ever.

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Originally Posted by khelvan

We are still hopeful for an April open beta, but we have run into some issues with the 1.2 patch that may delay our release somewhat.

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wait, i'm still unclear on this. the first post of the FAQ still talks about a closed beta. so you're saying it will be fully open to the public now?

WOW! ~;) i love it.
the onlything that i noticed that was a bit odd was the barbarian watchtower.
i think it would be best as a crude version of the already existing one.

also just wondering will their be the eastern extinsion and how many new provinces will be included?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tai4ji2x

wait, i'm still unclear on this. the first post of the FAQ still talks about a closed beta. so you're saying it will be fully open to the public now?

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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=45130

I haven't updated the FAQ. Too busy working on releasing things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dark11

WOW! ~;) i love it.
the onlything that i noticed that was a bit odd was the barbarian watchtower.
i think it would be best as a crude version of the already existing one.

also just wondering will their be the eastern extinsion and how many new provinces will be included?

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The factions we're talking about didn't build watchtowers as CA had them. They made small camps on the tops of tall hills. So that is what we're making.

We've remade the map to be bigger north, east, and south. It isn't just an "extension." We're at the province limit of 199, I have no idea how many "new" provinces that makes.

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Originally Posted by khelvan

The factions we're talking about didn't build watchtowers as CA had them. They made small camps on the tops of tall hills. So that is what we're making.

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unfortunately, i assume there is no way to change that model with the seasons, right? to me, the green grass is what makes the hill odd looking in the snow. it'll look great in the summer though..

where these hills earth works or were they natural hills that they just built little camps on? if they used pre-existing hills, maybe the scout camps can exist in-game at the start (and be part of the camp map terrain, thereby getting snowy in the winter and green in the summer)? what about having the 'hill' be abstracted, and just having a 'scout camp' (a few buildings on the ground)? is any of that possible to do?

if they were earth works, what about a brown (earth) color to the hill instead of green?

You really don't like our little hill, eh? :uhoh2:

We, of course, are keeping our options open. This is just a scout camp, it isn't any sort of fortification.

Actually, we could use your help with that hill, if any of you have any idea how to do it. I want it to make partially invisible, so that patches of snow/sand would come through the 'holes' in the hill texture, this way the hill could change its appearance a bit with seasons - but I can't get it to work, no matter what I do... the alpha channels don't seem to work, or maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by khelvan

You really don't like our little hill, eh? :uhoh2:

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:embarassed:

for me, it's mostly just that the blocky little green lump looks so incongruous in the snow (i imagine it'll be less odd looking in summer). what about a scout camp without the hill? just a small group of buildings set on a small clearing (earth-colored). that'd make sense in winter or summer... well sort of.. i don't know. obviously, it's not a big deal. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Big_John

unfortunately, i assume there is no way to change that model with the seasons, right? to me, the green grass is what makes the hill odd looking in the snow. it'll look great in the summer though..

where these hills earth works or were they natural hills that they just built little camps on? if they used pre-existing hills, maybe the scout camps can exist in-game at the start (and be part of the camp map terrain, thereby getting snowy in the winter and green in the summer)? what about having the 'hill' be abstracted, and just having a 'scout camp' (a few buildings on the ground)? is any of that possible to do?

if they were earth works, what about a brown (earth) color to the hill instead of green?

---

I don't have an answer to the seasons question, but I will say that up close, that is an extremely detailed and kick-butt "scout camp". Too bad it's hard to see at that distance.

We are still working on it, the texture isn't finished yet and we try to fix the season problem but the model is ready, i think we could use the underlay to fix the season problem, i tried to do this but i can't enlarge the underlay for the watchtower so that around the hill to be some mud and or to change the underlay model with the hiill one wich will automaticaly change the texture in sesons but i can't find the model,i agree that in summer it looks good but not in winter.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I like the campmap models, specially the "siege" one.

Fleet and blockade models:

IMHO it will make the sea area around a conflictive port-chokepoint too crammed with small ships that will just result in a mess. Remember how there are always lots of ships in the entrance of the Adriatic. Dont take me wrong, I like the diversity, but it might be a beter idea to just substitute the current model of the ship with just a more realistic one instead of adding more ships to the icon.

Its your call obviously.

Carthaginian infantry: I´m not too convinced with the "roman chainmail bit". Could you guys please post some sort of resource to read a little about them?

Suggestion for the "siege" icon:

Is it possible to remove the "army" toke at all? And just make the standard on top of the besieging camp. Also I would like to see the besieging camp a bit more fortified.

Suggestion for the watchtower:

A hill with a fire on top, the idea behind it is pretend the barbarians used fire on top of the mountain to communicate fast. ~;) This one of course is more inspired in LOTR film.

About seasons: Make the hill so high, its always snowy, just as other mountains.

Make these "watchtowers" buidable in mountain areas. It seems reasonable as there were more chances of finding an adequate height there.


BTW, it might look like I´ve criticized a lot here, but it is just because I really look forward for EB to improve RTW.

Thanks for reading. :bow:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

A hill with a fire on top, the idea behind it is pretend the barbarians used fire on top of the mountain to communicate fast.

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This was considered because several REAL civilizations, such as the Gauls, really did do this in mountainous areas, but it's impractical in realistic sense; not everywhere they could spread could possibly have a high enough area for this to be truly viable; plus, they were only for emergencies, they didn't keep a kingdom abreast of the actual situation, merely informed them when an enemy was approaching. Then, why would they show the movement of neutral parties? However, scout camps are very real, and are workable for all the barbarian civilizations; everyone builds camps from which to explore from, from time to time, and to watch movements of enemies or neutral parties through their lands. These camps wouldn't actually require high mountains or even hills, really. The camp isn't actually what's watching, it's the reconnaisance that eschews from it; woodsmen, outrunners, scouts on horseback, etc., examining the situation and reporting it home.

damn those soldier close-ups are awesome, and siege/blockade is a real beauty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

I like the campmap models, specially the "siege" one.

Fleet and blockade models:

IMHO it will make the sea area around a conflictive port-chokepoint too crammed with small ships that will just result in a mess. Remember how there are always lots of ships in the entrance of the Adriatic. Dont take me wrong, I like the diversity, but it might be a beter idea to just substitute the current model of the ship with just a more realistic one instead of adding more ships to the icon.

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Sorry can't do that, the blockade model and ships ones are two different pieces, what do you wan't to do is to hard-coded, i await other ideas you mught have.

Quote:

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Suggestion for the "siege" icon:

Is it possible to remove the "army" toke at all? And just make the standard on top of the besieging camp. Also I would like to see the besieging camp a bit more fortified.

---

Again it isn't possible, i've reached the max faces alowed per model so i can't add anything more to it, it's hardcoded to remove the army toke but we are working to change it in a little platoon or something else.

Quote:

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Suggestion for the watchtower:

A hill with a fire on top, the idea behind it is pretend the barbarians used fire on top of the mountain to communicate fast. ~;) This one of course is more inspired in LOTR film.

About seasons: Make the hill so high, its always snowy, just as other mountains.

Make these "watchtowers" buidable in mountain areas. It seems reasonable as there were more chances of finding an adequate height there.

---

No fire can't be aded it's hard-coded be sure i thought about this, i think if we make the hill so high it will look very whyred when it's build in a flat plain and we can't to make them buildable only in high areas again ot's hard-coded.

Guys we would do much more things if the game parts wouldn't be so hard-coded and make the game look much better but what can we do if they are hard-coded.

congrats on the great work again. i have a question and a suggestion to follow.

starting with the question.
you are introducing a higher grade of detail to the whole game, will this have a great effect on performance?

now to the suggestion.
of course i the season business is hard to solve with the barbarian watchtowers (probably a reason CA just gave them the watchtowers they have in the game).

now, big john made a god suggestion, and i would like to pick that one up. just having the buildings without a hill is a great idea. you could add a bit of shade instead grass, to make it look slightly elevated.

i don't know if this would work right, just something that struck me.

Quote:

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Sorry can't do that, the blockade model and ships ones are two different pieces, what do you wan't to do is to hard-coded, i await other ideas you mught have.

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I meant to change the actual "ship" token to a different ship token, a more realistic one. as opposed to adding more little ships

About siege icons:
Also change the "army" token to, say a "tent" token in sieges.

~:cheers: Very nice job again EB. Can`t wait to play the beta version.. :duel:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Proper Gander

congrats on the great work again. i have a question and a suggestion to follow.

starting with the question.
you are introducing a higher grade of detail to the whole game, will this have a great effect on performance?

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Well i have an p4 2.66, 9600xt and 512mb and almost didn't feel any perfomance drop with the new campagin map models, the units models are worked so that they don't contain to many polys.

Quote:

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now to the suggestion.
of course i the season business is hard to solve with the barbarian watchtowers (probably a reason CA just gave them the watchtowers they have in the game).

now, big john made a god suggestion, and i would like to pick that one up. just having the buildings without a hill is a great idea. you could add a bit of shade instead grass, to make it look slightly elevated.

i don't know if this would work right, just something that struck me.

---

If the season problem isn't fixed i think we will have to stick with this idea, but i think the underlay model can fix this problem the only problem is that i can't find it and don't know if i change it if it will used by ohter models.

Quote:

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I meant to change the actual "ship" token to a different ship token, a more realistic one. as opposed to adding more little ships

About siege icons:
Also change the "army" token to, say a "tent" token in sieges.

---

We had thought of some ideas for the army token and you is included but i don't think we can this, it's again, i know very disturbing, hard-coded.So we can make the game another model used in siege and change the army model in another model, but i think the animation can be used here this just came up to me, if i remember correctly the army token while siegieng so i think it can be done.
The other factions will have other types of ship tokens, but you're are right, the blockade icon needs another type of ship model.

I think a problem with the barb watchtower is that the model structures/houses/whatever on the hill are so small. It looks like a green lump with bits of brownish lumps on top. And in winter, it really stands out.

The solution would be to increase the size of the buildings and do away with the hill. This would serve to make the 'camp' more noticable, so we could better appreciate the models. Also, it would be more realistic; when the barbs bulit a camp on a hill, the bulidings would appear on a hill, and when they built them in flat plains, the camp would appear on the flat plains, not on some hill in the middle of a steppe, for example. It would also change with the seasons this way, and the ground would be different in different terrain (no oasises in the Arabian desert).

This, in case you where wondering, is why its good to communicate with the community and get feedback. ~;)

Crazed Rabbit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

The solution would be to increase the size of the buildings and do away with the hill. This would serve to make the 'camp' more noticable, so we could better appreciate the models.

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just my presonal taste, but i actually like the small buildings. infact, i'd like it if the size of other campaign map objects was reduced (well, armies, agents, and watchtowers at least). to me, that'd make the campaign map less cartoonish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

This, in case you where wondering, is why its good to communicate with the community and get feedback. ~;)

Crazed Rabbit

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This is what the beta is for.

Quote:

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just my presonal taste, but i actually like the small buildings. infact, i'd like it if the size of other campaign map objects was reduced (well, armies, agents, and watchtowers at least). to me, that'd make the campaign map less cartoonish.

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If we were to reduce everything to a point of non-cartoonish stuff, everything would be tiny. I think that it is not the scale that makes it so cartoony, since we need to have some abstraction or spend a lot of time zoomed in. The merits of this on gameplay are interesting. If we could zoom in really far and see the detail, it would be very interesting and nice, but then it would be a blurry blob when zoomed out to manuever armies.

The problem of cartoony looking bulidings lies in the coloring and general style of the objects. I think a skilled artist (which EB clearly has in abundance) should be able to make a good abstract that isn't really tiny.

On a side note, is Prometheus still making units for EB? I haven't seen any of his units for a while.

Crazed Rabbit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

If we were to reduce everything to a point of non-cartoonish stuff, everything would be tiny. I think that it is not the scale that makes it so cartoony, since we need to have some abstraction or spend a lot of time zoomed in.

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the design of the map is obviously cartoonish, i have no problem with that. i just mean i think that re-scaling armies and agents to about 3/4-1/2 their current size would look better, imo. i think the wooden watchtower should be about 1/2-sized.

Quote:

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On a side note, is Prometheus still making units for EB? I haven't seen any of his units for a while.

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Yep, Prom still continues to make units. A whole lot of them actually.

Quote:

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the design of the map is obviously cartoonish, i have no problem with that. i just mean i think that re-scaling armies and agents to about 3/4-1/2 their current size would look better, imo. i think the wooden watchtower should be about 1/2-sized.

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Although I have seen no such movement in that direction, I would indeed like to see it like that.

on the picture (big/first) i see two skirmishers, what's the differnce? one is holding two spears in one hand, how will the throwing animation be? btw will reload be fixed, will the grasp behind their shield instead of javs popping up? will the romans have two pila strapped on their shield?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerby

on the picture (big/first) i see two skirmishers, what's the differnce? one is holding two spears in one hand, how will the throwing animation be? btw will reload be fixed, will the grasp behind their shield instead of javs popping up? will the romans have two pila strapped on their shield?

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They're different units...different names, different places of origin, and so on.

We currently have a choice for skirmishers - have them carry extra javelins in their off hand/shield hand, or not. We can't change it so they "use" the javelins. They're either there, or they are not. For many units they will remain there. For the Romans no, we decided not to because of the clipping issues this would cause with the Testudo, among other things.

Overall, I am delighted.

I'll throw in my two cents about the barbarian "hill": It just doesn't look right. The concept motivating the change is a step in the right direction though.

The new seige/blockade is AWESOME. Whoever is responsible for this work should be VERY proud of themselves.

The units look excellent of course.


I read some comments here about changing the army/spy/diplomat tokens.

Is this hard coded, or do you have something in mind? Quick thoughts: The army token could be changes to a formation, although I have no idea how challenging the animation changes would be. It would like nice though...
Diplomats could have a carriage or something similar, although I have no idea what was really used then.

Either way, whatever. Looks good so far. I look forward to the beta. I'll be happy to give you guys some professional beta testing reports.

About the barbarian watchtower...

Why not let it rest on a mound of dirt? That way, it would be appropriate for the all of seasons.

Really great guys. I'm really loving the German units. However, shouldn't their beard color match their hair color?

Hey me again.

I love the new seige art. A quick note on this:

I am currently reading "The making of the roman army: from republic to empire" (Keppie, 1998). Keppie's history is extremely detailed and he provides a mountain of sources for his work.

Here is my point: Many times he refers to seiges being conducted by the Roman army, with trenches and palisades, etc. Keppie (1998) details the Seige of Alesia:

"He [Caesar] dug out a 20 foot trench, with perpendicular sides at the bottom as at the top, and held back the other fortifications some 400 feet behind this trench... ...Behind the ditches he erected a rampart, strengthened by stakes, 12 feet in overall height. On top was a breastwork and battlement, with large forked branches projecting, where the breastwork and rampart met, to slow any Gauls who tried to climb over. There were towers put along the fortification, round the entire circuit, 800 feet apart" (p.89).

While this was in what, 53 or 52 BC... the specifics are important. If you are going to be so accurate as to change the seige art, you may as well do it in the spirit of your mod: accurately. So perhaps you may include this in addition to your tents? Just a thought.

I wish I had the artistic talent that you have, as I would do it myself and offer it to your labor.

reference:

Keppie, L. (1998). The Making of the Roman Army: From Republic to Empire. London: University of Oklahoma Press.

So, we plan on addressing all of the campaign map models, including the soldier model. Unfortunately we have only so many people to work on these things, and only so much time. I don't think we can have the model change "formations," I believe it is a static model, but I'm not a modeller, so I can't really address that.

About the siege model: we can't really add anything more to this, because it already reaches the limits of how complicated a model in RTW can be (there's a limit on number of polygons available, or sth like that), besides, not all armies have built complex fortifications when they were besieging cities, and this icon is supposed to be universal. So it's a compromise of sorts.

the germanic warriors look awesome. I'm happy to see wooden shield bosses but the blue shield is a bit overdecorated (from the picture). simple, geometrical would be more appropriate, like the shield of the Sahsnotaz or Ridon-Harjan. another minor flaw: germanic people didn't used belt loops, but belt hooks in preroman iron time. the use of belt loops started around the beginning of the 1st century bc with roman forms.

I would be happy if some of your germanic researchers could tell me what the names of the units mean (my protogermanic is almost nonexisting). I guess Sahsnotaz means swordsbondsmen (ok that was not hard), Ridon-Harjan is army (german Heer, danish hær) horsemen (german Reiter, danish rytter), Bedilaz - absolutely no clue, Bugiz-Mannaz is bowmen (bow is in german Bogen, in danish bue or bov), Swainaz - this puzzles me most. I don't think it is something like swine (german Schwein, danish svin).

what happened to the suebian knot. is it dropped for good?

a last question about the unmounted Ridon-Harjan: is it possible to unmount a horsemen in battle (IIRC it is not possible) or is it just in this picture?

and the sahsnota should throw only one javelin at once - but I guess you already know ~;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by khelvan

They're different units...different names, different places of origin, and so on.

We currently have a choice for skirmishers - have them carry extra javelins in their off hand/shield hand, or not. We can't change it so they "use" the javelins. They're either there, or they are not. For many units they will remain there. For the Romans no, we decided not to because of the clipping issues this would cause with the Testudo, among other things.

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your animators can't change the reload animation? is already guessed you can't remove the jav form the shield, but let teh right arm go behind the shield to make it look like it 'grabs' s jav. look at the reload in rtw for javs. they pop up, can't the pop-up be fixed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

I read some comments here about changing the army/spy/diplomat tokens.

Is this hard coded, or do you have something in mind? Quick thoughts: The army token could be changes to a formation, although I have no idea how challenging the animation changes would be. It would like nice though...
Diplomats could have a carriage or something similar, although I have no idea what was really used then.

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No it isn't hard-coded and this in our plan to change it and yes a little formation was our thought to do, with the other we haven't decided yet what to do.

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Originally Posted by Skilfingr

what happened to the suebian knot. is it dropped for good?

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I can't speak for SaFe, but isn't this what you're talking about?

http://img115.exs.cx/img115/4629/hus...ow022sl0ox.jpg

I also made a mistake on the unit name, it is Ridon-Harjaz, not Ridon-Harjan.

Suebian Knot

http://home.columbus.rr.com/herneswood/image007.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skilfingr

the germanic warriors look awesome. I'm happy to see wooden shield bosses but the blue shield is a bit overdecorated (from the picture). simple, geometrical would be more appropriate, like the shield of the Sahsnotaz or Ridon-Harjan. another minor flaw: germanic people didn't used belt loops, but belt hooks in preroman iron time. the use of belt loops started around the beginning of the 1st century bc with roman forms.

I would be happy if some of your germanic researchers could tell me what the names of the units mean (my protogermanic is almost nonexisting). I guess Sahsnotaz means swordsbondsmen (ok that was not hard), Ridon-Harjan is army (german Heer, danish hær) horsemen (german Reiter, danish rytter), Bedilaz - absolutely no clue, Bugiz-Mannaz is bowmen (bow is in german Bogen, in danish bue or bov), Swainaz - this puzzles me most. I don't think it is something like swine (german Schwein, danish svin).

what happened to the suebian knot. is it dropped for good?

a last question about the unmounted Ridon-Harjan: is it possible to unmount a horsemen in battle (IIRC it is not possible) or is it just in this picture?

and the sahsnota should throw only one javelin at once - but I guess you already know ~;)

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A lot of questions, let me answer a few
- the suebian knot will appear also, but it was naturally not the only known hairstyle of the germanic people:-)

Bugiz-Mannaz are Bowmen and Sahsnotaz meaning Swordbondsmen - perfectly right.
Ridon-Harjaz means Rider-Warrior.
Bedilaz means Free Men
and
Swainaz means Youthling.

Enough for now...

I know I shouldn't, but every update drops my jaw to the floor. Especially those rustic 'barbarian' units which honestly look simply fantastic. Out of all of the custom units I've seen, those are undoubtedly my favourite. Something about the shading and the lines on them make me get a feeling of the true essence that they exuded. Big props to Alin and Webbird. The Germans are going to look amazing, and already are.

Keep up the amazing work guys, I know I haven't been around recently, but you're blowing any competition out of the water time and again. I love the fleets and the blockades, excellent work.

http://www.osterby.de/osterby/Moorle...Suebenkopf.jpg

the head of the Osterby man

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaFe

A lot of questions, let me answer a few
- the suebian knot will appear also, but it was naturally not the only known hairstyle of the germanic people:-)

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of course not. many roman depictions of germanic people show the suebian knot. this doesn't necessarily means that most of the germanic peoples used it. in fact romans had a very strict image of barbarians (long blond or red hair and beard, tall, athletic, savage and so on) based on the (not always accurate) descriptions given by Caesar, Tacitus and others. once they got used to the peculiarity of "the" germanic peoples, it is very likely that they used the suebian knot in most depictions to characterize these barbarians as germanic people.

on the other hand Tacitus describes in detail which tribes used the suebian knot. the short version: the suebian people ~D
the long version Semnonen, Langobarden, Hermunduren, Markomannen, Quaden and many more.

Do you mean by your statement, that suebian knot is used only for units exclusively to suebian areas?

the interesting thing in his Germania is: he claims that the suebian knot is mark of the suebians. a few lines later, he is contradicting himself by stating that men of other tribes used this hair style too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skilfingr

http://www.osterby.de/osterby/Moorle...Suebenkopf.jpg

the head of the Osterby man



of course not. many roman depictions of germanic people show the suebian knot. this doesn't necessarily means that most of the germanic peoples used it. in fact romans had a very strict image of barbarians (long blond or red hair and beard, tall, athletic, savage and so on) based on the (not always accurate) descriptions given by Caesar, Tacitus and others. once they got used to the peculiarity of "the" germanic peoples, it is very likely that they used the suebian knot in most depictions to characterize these barbarians as germanic people.

on the other hand Tacitus describes in detail which tribes used the suebian knot. the short version: the suebian people ~D
the long version Semnonen, Langobarden, Hermunduren, Markomannen, Quaden and many more.

Do you mean by your statement, that suebian knot is used only for units exclusively to suebian areas?

the interesting thing in his Germania is: he claims that the suebian knot is mark of the suebians. a few lines later, he is contradicting himself by stating that men of other tribes used this hair style too.

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As the tribes of the suebian confederation had many contacts with other tribes this hairstyle was often adapted. It is not exclusivly for suebian people.

If an army is represented by a single person, why shouldn't a fleet be represented by a single ship?

-Simetrical

The armies won't be represented by a single person for long :)

question: will teh reload-jav-animation be different
evver seen it from close up? the sword magically transforms into a jav. looks weird. and than they bend over with their head touchign teh ground to throw it 30 meters up into the air sometimes, something looks weird.

If possible, then yes.