CA asks for Bug List - to be fixed in the expansion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeromeGrasdyke

But about the idea of a list of community issues, I think that's a fine idea. There might be some problems putting it together in that some people think, "oh, this is a huge problem" while other people are of the opposite opinion, but then you'll always get these things when lots of people try to work together ;) It will definitely help flag some areas for us that you guys have noticed as being either broken or not working as well as they could.

---

This is what Jerome Posted in this thread

So basically its down to us now.


This is how it will work.
You post bugs here, and they will be compiled into a concise list to give to CA. Thanks guys, we will soon be adding some of the bugs already mentioned.


Current Reported Bugs - IMPORTANT: please could someone read through these inform me of any mistakes or unproven bugs.
Note: Sometimes when it says me or I it is simply where I have copied the text of those who reported the bug.


AI bugs

General notes on AI (not specific bugs, these may be moved to issues):
Battlefield AI - an AI army will approach to attack in a line, but when it gets near to the player's force, it will break up, with units veering off in piecemeal attacks. This allows its individual units to be flanked and destroyed in detail. It is particularly disasterous when the AI is fielding phalanxes. The AI would do better to just try to march straight through the player's line in a frontal attack.
Campaign AI - the AI does not sufficiently concentrate its forces. Some simple code to make weak stacks keep out of range of stronger player's stacks (ultimately hiding out in a walled town if need be) would help a lot. Heroes of Might and Magic III had such AI behaviour and it made for a decently challenging game.

• Siege
  
  • Loosing seige equipment - AI units who loose their siege equipment whilst approaching the walls, seem to be frozen for the rest of the game. Standing there getting shot.
  • AI can do multiple sallies - Oaty has reported that this only has occurred on the turn they are to be starved to death
  • A.I. builds sap points on wooden walls - I can't build them for a wooden wall and the sap points do'nt show up when I'm assaulted so this is a bug.
  • Computer controlled rienforcements bug - In siege assaults, computer controlled rienforcements for both the AI and player sometimes come on, line up in from of the wall and stand there getting shot. It seems they may be continuously be being given orders to move and halt, move and halt. See here
• Loading bugs (all one bug?)
  
  
  • AI break siege- the AI will often break up sieges after loading a saved game
  • AI become protectorates - After loading a saved game, the AI seem very susceptible to diplomatic overtures such as the offering of protectorate status, ceasefires, alliances, etc.
  • AI behaves passively on the turn after a load - AI is also behaving passive in turn after reload. It would never take unwalled cities for example. If AI had "goto" toward enemy provice, it would also retreat.
    See an in-depth discussion of the whole issue here

Strat map bugs

• Settlement bugs
  
  • Fog of war - When a settlement gets upgraded, it sometimes becomes envelopped in fog of war, so that you can no longer see its contents or surroundings. You can still move into and manage the city. See here, more info here
• Character bugs
  
  
  • Character portraits - continue to age after death.
  • Trait bug - After a battle is played, the triggers for traits are set off twice if the battle is played manually (once at the end of the battle and once on reload of the strat map?)
  • Spy/Assasin traits - Sabotage gives no experience to assassins. It was found that traits such as conspirator were triggered after sabotage, but are only for spies, yet spies cannot sabotage...
  • Additional trait bugs - the traits with "scarred", "coward" and "IndecisiveAttacker" are not working correctly
  • Numidians don't get priests - numidian generals never get any priests in their retinue. this is due to the trigger for carthaginian priests only works for carthage. a separate trigger needs to be created for numidians to get priests of tanit/baal/milqart
• Unit recruiting bugs
  
  
  • Retraining experience units keep their experience for no extra cost - Retraining units with high experience costs no more than retraining units with no experience, yet the experienced unit is filled with new recruits who have the same experience as the unit (there is no fall in experience) See discussion here
  • Strange retraining costs - Could someone post a concise description of this bug. Is it part of the above bug?
  • Praetorian Cohort is available before Marian Reforms
  • Seleucids Armored Elephants are available in provinces without elephant resource
  • Thracians can not recruit Phalanx Pikemen with their higher level barracks
  • Gauls can recruit Naked Fanatics in farming shrines
  • Spain cannot build Long Shield Cavalry and Onagers
  • Mercenary Horse Archer cannot appear in Armenia
  • Pontus and Scythia do not get upgraded generals
  • Several other apparent inconsistencies are discussed here

• Sea bugs
  
  • Attacking ships in port - It is possible to attack ships in port (see this thread) using a roundabout method of selecting the unit cards of your ship, but not otherwise. Should we or shouldn't we be allowed to attack ships in port?
• Senate bugs
  
  
  • Senate allocates redundant units - After Marian reforms Senate still give triarii for successful missions.
  • Senate outlaws factions after capture of settlement - When capturing certain cities as part of a Senate mission (Sardis seems to be particularly prone to this, but other cities, including Corinth and Sidon have been known to cause this too), the Roman player gets outlawed for no logical reason. I say "no logical reason" because it apparently has nothing to do with prior Senate/Pleb popularity, number of regions controlled, etc. After this premature outlawing, the Senate behaves irrationally: it outlaws the other Roman factions, hands out new missions to the already outlawed Roman player, etc. Could someone please confirm this
• Protectorates
  
  
  • Protecting protectorates - If some faction declares war on your protectorate, you may not declare war on aggressor and still be protector of that faction. Could someone please confirm this
• Diplomacy bugs
  
  
  • Diplomats can't talk to cities - Often a diplomat seems to want to talk to a city. The turn sequence pauses and the diplomat faces the city and opens his scroll. There have been suggestions that this might be an attempted bribe, but it happens frequently between the Roman factions early in game. It seems the diplomats are having trouble starting a conversation.
• Siege
  
  
  • Siege but no siege - Sometimes it happens that a settlement is besieged by ghosts. There is no army there to actually lay the siege but still the stakes are up around the settlement and it is declared under siege. We have all seen the humerous screenshot of a city in Germania under siege with a great caption. Could someone pls confirm this or give a link to the screenshot
• UI bugs
  
  
  • Roman images for Numidia - (so I guess the other possible Carthaginian culture factions too) have Roman event pictures.
  • Parthian horse archers - have wrong unit's info picture and icon.
• Watchtower/Fort bugs
  
  
  • Captured watchtowers not working - When an enemy army parks an army on my watchtower, only about 10~20 percent of the time it gets diasabled.
• Other bugs
  
  
  • Weapon and armour upgrades have a maximum bonus of +3 - rendering the existing Awesome Temple of Artemis and its Pantheion useless. Right-clicking a unit in the Unit Recruitment screen will show the expected +5 missile weapon bonus, but when you actually (re)train a unit it only gets +3. The same problem manifests when a Temple of Artemis (or above) is combined with a Foundry. The combination should give units a +4 missile attack bonus.
• Prologue bugs
  
  
  • Missing unit cards - Gallic Archers (from Prologue) and Spanish Onagers (MP game) have their large unit cards missing.
    They show brown peasant instead.

Battle bugs

• Grouping bugs
  
  • Grouped archers bug – Grouped archers don't fire where it is directed (first reported by hoom). They still obey individually.
  • Grouped speed bug - Grouping a quick unit with a slow unit results in both units moving at the speed of the fast unit. Surely the fast units should slow down for the slow ones?
  • Phalanx ability in groups - selecting an infantry unit without phalanx ability then adding a phalanx unit resaults in phalanx ability button appearing for the whole selection but indicating that phalanx formation is not chosen even if it is.
  • Grouped units not following orders - Sometimes, not all the units in the group follow orders given to the group. Also reported is that sometimes a unit not in the group follows orders given to the group.
  • Grouped units sometimes move rather than attack - Sometimes a group of units ordered to attack an enemy unit (double-click) will behave as if ordered to run to that location. The problem can be solved by choosing the individual unit cards and then ordering the attack, so I don't know the reason. I suspect the trouble is from groups created before the battle begins? Has anyone apart from Magraev experienced this?
  • Unit destinations - During pause grouped units destination position is not visible until you turn off pause.
• Battle map generation bugs
  
  
  • Coastline bug - Sometimes areas of sea near coastlines disspear in battle, leaving a perfectly square area of brown land. See here
• Fords and bridges bugs
  
  
  • Ford Bug - Some ford maps don't work properly in battle. For instance: the ford south of the town at Carthago Nova. Many of us have found infantry utterly unable to cross this ford and others. The ford was in the location where a bridge would normally be (if roads had been built.) There were no other fords on the map. The AI attacked, but could not find a crossing. It took me 10 or 15 minutes of experimentation and exploring to figure out how to get my cavalry into a formation that would allow them to cross (long narrow column very near the ford and perfectly alligned with it.) I never could get infantry across.
  • Bridge Routing bug – Bridge routing bug where the enemy unit routs to the player's side.
• Siege bugs
  
  
  • Routing on walls - Units still Fight to the Death on walls when they should be routing, despite supposedly fixed in 1.2.
  • Ladder bugs – Occassions where the unit who drops the ladder during deployment precludes it from picking it up again. Also, ability to build ladder on huge/epic stone walls even though not usable during siege.
  • Sallying Enemy bug I – Killing all the sallying enemy's forces doesn't give automatic victory to player (reported by Oaty). I think Oaty was trapped outside.
  • Sallying Enemy bug II - Sometimes the AI sallies, but once in battle, doesn't move, just hides behind the walls till the timer runs out.
  • Enemy never attack - On the battle map, when the AI is sieging one of your towns, the order of the AI's attack seems to be to fire all siege weapons first (e.g. onagers) until they run out of ammo, before using siege equipment to take the walls etc. But the problem is that Scorpions, who cannot attack walls, are included in this, so if the AI has Scorpions, it will not launch an attack on your walls until you run out and destroy them.
  • Endless Siege bug - Defending Enemy units that rout getting stuck in between tight alleys of buildings where they can't be reached by skirmishers.
  • Barbarian city Pathfinding bug – Units will SKIRT the closest route inside barbarian cities when there are no roadway/tracks presents. Instead they follow the roadway/tracks ( going around the city) even though the clicked destination only meant crossing between two buildings (with no tracks)
  • Pathfinding when entering city plazas - All units usually insist on entering the plazas in the middle of the square borders rather than a direct line inward. This screws up cavalry support, infantry charges, and phalanx formations.
  • CTD when ordering units to line up beside dropped ladder - When the A.I. sallies and you drop your ladders (the 15 build point ones). With the ladders on the ground select some unit(s) and go to string them across in a line. When you do this if the mouse cursor has a palm(grab icon) and you go to string them out you get a CTD every single time. In the heat of battle this can be annoying.
  • Units fall off siege towers - Units tend to fall to their death between the gap (invisible one) between the ramp of the Siege Tower and the Wall they are trying to get onto through the said Siege Tower. This doesn't happen always and I have personally noticed this bug occassionaly on the Large Stone Walls.
  • All units die - In the Carthies initial seige of Syracuse, after my (Greek) forces sally all Carthage forces die or retreat (Elephants are amok). I click End Battle with my forces outside of my town and get DRAW instead of completely breaking the seige. Could someone explain, do they just drop dead?
• Archery bugs
  
  
  • Flaming Arrows - Flaming ammo from archers do not light up or damage buildings like it says they do in the manual.
  • Horse archers don't fire when skirmishing - Bow-armed cavalry fail to fire on the run when skirmish mode is engaged. Possibly related to bugged animation cycles; units go through the motions of firing arrows but arrows are not (or rarely) released. Cantabrian circle still functions fully. Javelin-armed cavalry are unaffected.
• Other bugs
  
  
  • Cavalry Movement Point bonus bug – Left-clicking on a cavalry unit "on-screen" and Left-clicking on the same cavalry unit on the "unit card" confers different movement point values (being higher on the latter).
  • Cavalry don't use secondary weapon - Cavalry don`t change weapon when they stay in prolonged melee unless you press ALT key before you charge.
  • Impossible to attack dogs - (wardog/warhound) "formations" cannot be selected or attacked, even when their handlers are defeated or routed off the battlefield.
  • Flying Corpses - In some situations, (I belive melees with many men in tight situations) a corpse will decide to fly. Click here for a picture
  • Phalanx unable to fight up hills - Phalanx fighting uphill still hold their pikes horizontally. The effect of this is that units can run down the hill and ignore the pikes completely as the pikes end up stuck in the ground. Even on fairly shallow inclines the phalanx can't bring their pikes to bear on a enemy. Even with the pike tips well above the ground they simply let the enemy pass. And this really looks odd because it is happening on terrain where you wouldn't expect it to. I don't know how much the curvature of the incline matters as I tested it on many different hills and it happens nearly all the time.
  • Units running into walls - Sometimes when you give a unit an order, they start running continously into a wall. See here. This is not the same as the units getting stuck in narrow allyways, as giving them another order will cancel the effect. Pathfinding problem?
  • The Sprites for Creten archers are half the size they should be
  • Cutscene for generals death on foot Will play multiple times, the first to third cutscene usually zooms in but quite often it's not a generals death. Occasionally it only shows 1 for his death. All other times it goes to the cutscene up to 4 times and on the last it shows the cutscene ALONG with the line that gets thrown in for the generals death. All previous cutscenes don't have the generals death audio. Again this is only armies led by captains/generals on foot.Could someone please confirm this
• UI bugs
  
  
  • Pausing in minimal UI mode unreliable - Pausing in Minimal UI' doesnt work properly, its as if one click of the pause button registers numerous clicks and u see the pause icon flash 10 times before you (in a milli-second) upon one click. Sometimes it ends up with a pause and sometimes it doesn't
• 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

Will continue to update this later...





















Issues: Note this list is very incomplete, I'm overwhelmed with issues, and I'm concentrating on the bugs for the time being.
These are not strictly speaking bugs, but things which we think are noteworth and should be considered in the expansion. CA can do with these as they like.

• Ports - ships shouldn't be able to exit or enter a blockaded port.
• Fire at will - Units in Fire at Will will not fire at a unit engaged, nice. But it will fire at a unit that is routing, even if it is pursued by a friendly unit. This has the same friendly fire effect as firing at a unit in combat.
• Charge Effect - The charge bonus stat works, but doesn't seem to have a significant impact--negligible for "normal" stat levels. Instead charge kills seem to be more controlled by armour level of the charging unit and by base attack. Mass has some impact but again less than the armour level. And the very act of charging itself seems to have a rather large sort of fixed effect. It is not that charges are weak (most of us agree they are VERY powerful, especially with the very high overall kill rates). It is instead that the charge bonus has almost nothing to do with the power of a charge, while other things that shouldn't matter as much have a large impact.
• Pila Animation Halting Charges - Units raising their pila can stop a charge cold at times (quite frequently in 1vs1 tests), and then inflict heavy casualties on the chargers when they do release. When they are preparing to throw one would think they should be quite vulnerable to the shock of a charge. It might be intentional to make up for the difficulty of units being able to release their pila in time, but the fact that they are then causing heavy damage with the pila after taking the charge seems quite wrong/buggy.
• You cannot demand a city which you are besieging
• Exploit of the sallying A.I. Siege equipment is already equipped allowing the human to assault the walls immediately, as soon as towers/ladders hit the wall the A.I. calls off it's sally. Siege equipment should not be easily accessable on a sally.
• Siege equipment uneffected by unit size settings No matter if huge units or small units are selected you always get 2 onagers or ballistas. It should be 1,2,4,8 respectively. Or 1,2,3,4 for balance issues.

NOTE: this is not a place to discuss CA policies, this is a place to get on a post bugs, any unrelated posts will be deleted!

This is excellent news, I hope that this will give us a base for a more prolonged developer-community interaction.

My share for this, something minor as most of the big stuff is already known. Grouping units affect unit speeds, e.g. infantry can be grouped with cavalry to get the infantry run (even) faster than usual. Some research here, topic gets switched from movement modifiers to group speed issue.: link

1. Siege bug - I didn't do extensive tests on this so I leave the details to the ORG testers (It was first reported here but Tai4ji2x, but I’m not sure who discovered this first. Anyone?)
2. Cavalry Movement Point bonus bug – Left-clicking on a cavalry unit "on-screen" and Left-clicking on the same cavalry unit on the "unit card" confers different movement point values (being higher on the latter).
3. Grouped archers bug – Grouped archers don't fire where it is directed (first reported by hoom). They still obey individually.
4. Red-zone bug (?) – The players' army units get stuck when they land on the enemy's red-zone no matter how much movement points they still have. Bug or Feature?
5. Port Blockade Bug – Plain blockade doesn't stop the enemy from escaping (first reported by hoom)
6. Ladder bugs – Occassions where the unit who drops the ladder during deployment precludes it from picking it up again. Also, ability to build ladder on huge/epic stone walls even though not usable during siege.
7. Sallying Enemy bug – Killing all the sallying enemy's forces doesn't give automatic victory to player (reported by Oaty). I think Oaty was trapped outside.
8. Endless Siege bug - Defending Enemy units that rout getting stuck in between tight alleys of buildings where they can't be reached by skirmishers.
9. Bridge Routing bug – Bridge routing bug where the enemy unit routs to the player's side.
10. Barbarian city Pathfinding bug – Units will SKIRT the closest route inside barbarian cities when there are no roadway/tracks presents. Instead they follow the roadway/tracks ( going around the city) even though the clicked destination only meant crossing between two buildings (with no tracks)

I'll add some more later. :charge:

This would be good place to post link to BUG-FIXER.
(while discussion thread is here)


This is some sort of unofficial patch which fixes some bugs (or oddities), that can be done by just modifing text files.
Word of warning, some of the fixes are just workarounds, since real fixes would need change in code.

Still, it's good to indentify some problems in RTW.

AI needs at least 3 turns to take city.
While human player can seige in first turn, and attack in 2nd, AI never does that, it attacks at 3rd turn earliest.

EDIT:
Still not in bug list.

I don't know if this is what you mean by the siege bug, but sometimes when the AI sallies, they just sit there. They don't actually sally at all. Has anyone else experienced this?

Yes.I have experienced this and it's extremely annoying if you are sitting out-side the walls with no siege equipment unable to get into the city and the bloody AI army sits on the other side of the wall even though they are supposed to be sallying.

That's why I won't play with the timer off.

One visual bug that can be nasty is the shoreline 'bug'. I posted a screenshot of an extreme version of it in this thread.

Bh

In the trait files, you don't get a popup for gaining a trait if you gained it when you ended your turn, or at least I don't think you do. You do get popups if you gain a trait that gives them (e.g., Coward) during the course of your turn, but I've never seen such a popup at the very beginning of a turn. This could be tested more systematically, however.

When you have more than two rows of building options, as of 1.2, you can't always scroll down correctly.

When using the minimal UI, pressing the pause button once often causes the game to pause and then unpause in rapid succession, no matter how quickly you hit the button. Likewise, I think, for other buttons, but those mostly aren't toggles, so you just hear the sound multiple times at worst.

-Simetrical

are my protectorates supposed to be capable of going to war with me?

I dont think so i think that would go against the whole Protectorate rule. Has never hapend to me.

The Colisseum would be a great place to copy this thread to. Not many people look in the game mechanics sub forum

Yep im only here once every 5 days. Also another bug is that if you sally out to attak your enemy and dont even kill that many of there men before the timer runs out the next turn the A.I just wonders off braking the seige. Its really annoying im at the point were I actually want the germens to take one of my cities !

Charge Effect I suggest the charge effect/charge bonus be added as a discussion item. There was a thread about this recently. It is not what I would call a bug, but it is a feature that when investigated leaves most of us scratching our heads and appears to be an area for improvement.. Short of it is that the charge bonus stat works, but doesn't seem to have a significant impact--negligible for "normal" stat levels. Instead charge kills seem to be more controlled by armour level of the charging unit and by base attack. Mass has some impact but again less than the armour level. And the very act of charging itself seems to have a rather large sort of fixed effect. It is not that charges are weak (most of us agree they are VERY powerful, especially with the very high overall kill rates). It is instead that the charge bonus has almost nothing to do with the power of a charge, while other things that shouldn't matter as much have a large impact.

Pila Animation Halting Chargers
Another one to add as an odd effect is that units raising their pila can stop a charge cold at times (quite frequently in 1vs1 tests), and then inflict heavy casualties on the chargers when they do release. It seems to be a timing issue, and it is very counterintuitive. When they are preparing to throw one would think they should be quite vulnerable to the shock of a charge. It might be intentional to make up for the difficulty of units being able to release their pila in time, but the fact that they are then causing heavy damage with the pila after taking the charge seems quite wrong/buggy. There could be quite a bit happening that we don't know about with this, the whole volley delay effect might be playing havoc here. It is worthy of scrutiny at least. Not sure if it ever happens for other missile units or when changing formation for any other types...could be a deeper glitch.

Ford Bug
Some ford maps don't work properly in battle. For instance: the ford south of the town at Carthago Nova. Many of us have found infantry utterly unable to cross this ford and others. The ford was in the location where a bridge would normally be (if roads had been built.) There were no other fords on the map. The AI attacked, but could not find a crossing. It took me 10 or 15 minutes of experimentation and exploring to figure out how to get my cavalry into a formation that would allow them to cross (long narrow column very near the ford and perfectly alligned with it.) I never could get infantry across.

Missile unit rank effect, no LOS, distance attenuation
A large departure between previous TW series games is in rank effects, non LOS shooting, and apparently distance attenuation. Archers can fire effectively from extremely deep formations in RTW. Additionally, units don't seem to pay a significant non-LOS penalty. Indirect fire (when screened behind one's lines, a wall, other ranks of the same unit, etc.) should have a substantial impact on accuracy of fire and therefore killing power. Also, what testing I've done suggests that missile attack (or accuracy) is not modified for distance. However, the collision code does apparently slightly reduce the number of impacts at distance because the individual soldier cross sections are smaller at distance due to firing angle.

Distance attenuation would reduce the effect of archery, without unfairly penalizing it.

Indirect fire/LOS penalties would encourage more historic use of skirmishers and archers: thin formations in front and at the flanks.

Hidden Unit Pathing Issue
This is probably a small bug rather than merely an issue, but it is a result of FOW. If the banner of an *unseen* army projects over the tile the player selects for movement, then the player's path detours toward the army, rather than the intended destination. This is most often seen when moving along a road. The player can't see the enemy army and is not selecting them or their tile, but the player's army goes that way regardless when the road destination is selected.

Suggestion: halt movement when new unit/agent is seen
One thing that is annoying is having one's armies or agents change course or try to march around the world because an unseen army or agent now blocks their path. The correct approach would have them proceed along the intended route until they can see that the blocking force, then halt. At that point their orders could be altered. (The AI should be allowed to benefit from this as well!) Another approach would be to have the unit halt and be allowed to re-evaluate each time a new unit is revealed.

After installing patch 1.1 or patch 1.2 the game can no longer find the game CD, although CD I is in the drive, thus preventing me from running the game patched. I have this problem both when the install and the game is run from my DVD drive (D:) and when from my CD-burner (E:). The version istalled from the CD, unpatched, runs without such a problem.
I've seen in the forums a few other people with the same problem but never seen anyone post a solution.

:sigh: i miss those days in STW, where i knew the optimal formation for archers was two-lines deep...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Red Harvest

Missile unit rank effect, no LOS, distance attenuation
A large departure between previous TW series games is in rank effects, non LOS shooting, and apparently distance attenuation. Archers can fire effectively from extremely deep formations in RTW. Additionally, units don't seem to pay a significant non-LOS penalty. Indirect fire (when screened behind one's lines, a wall, other ranks of the same unit, etc.) should have a substantial impact on accuracy of fire and therefore killing power. Also, what testing I've done suggests that missile attack (or accuracy) is not modified for distance. However, the collision code does apparently slightly reduce the number of impacts at distance because the individual soldier cross sections are smaller at distance due to firing angle.

Distance attenuation would reduce the effect of archery, without unfairly penalizing it.

Indirect fire/LOS penalties would encourage more historic use of skirmishers and archers: thin formations in front and at the flanks.

---

Pathfinding when entering city plazas
All units usually insist on entering the plazas in the middle of the square borders rather than a direct line inward. This screws up cavalry support, infantry charges, and phalanx formations.

Flaming Arrows
Flaming ammo from archers do not light up or damage buildings like it says they do in the manual.

Possible bug:
Units do still at times Fight to the Death when routing on walls. Not a great situation if you happen to get beaten from the walls in an attack and have a a few men standing there you can't withdraw (with the timer off). You will suffer losses to units you have never sent into combat because you need to use the Esc button.

I second the effect of armour on the charge. It can't be right that Cataphract Archers are possibly the third best chargers (discluding eles and chariots) in the game.

Major balance issue:
Chariots apparently are overpowered in regards to autoresolve. That makes Egypt trounce the Seleucids easily (as if they didn't have an easy enough time) and more importantly makes the Britons kick the rear of the Guals and Germans with obvious ease.

There are plenty of inconsistencies in the stats, but I don't know if this is the place for it.

Maybe I should divide it into two sections, bugs and issues...

yes, please. Issues are just that. issues over a game that invariably involve "balance" issues...The fact is that chariots are devastatingly easy to win with even without using autocalc. (their ammo supply is awe-inspiring)

• not to mention the scythes are scary as hell

As for bugs, i'd definitely have to mention the "load game" bug that makes replaying a really cool battle, where the AI attacks, impossible...and sadly this was the major reason i loved the earlier series.

1/ Nine times out of ten my skirmishing units do a great job of keeping out the way of enemy units. But now and again, they completely fail to get out of the way, or just barge right into the enemy. And it's not because they are trapped or have nowhere to escape. They just seem to forget to skirmish. It's very annoying.

2/ The pathfinding bug in cities is still extant. In my last siege battle for instance, I directed my missile cav to run away from an advancing phalanx, instead they charged straight INTO the phalanx. (Oh, and they had skirmish mode on too).

3/ I've had repeated problems getting missile units to actually throw their weapons. Three times in one battle the other night, for instance, I directed a peltast to fire at an enemy unit, three times I came back to find it still standing there, "Idle". It seems that the only way to reliably get missile units to fire is to put them on autofire. If you turn them off autofire and try to get them to fire at a particular unit, much of the time they won't do it. Or they will fire one volley and stop. So I just have to leave them mostly on autofire now.

4/ Still got the problem of grouped units not all following orders, or of some unit that is not part of the group following the group's orders instead.

5/ Occasionally when I've had my missile cav grouped and taken them off skirmish mode, they continue to behave as though skirmish mode is enabled and can't be used to charge enemy units. Taking them out of group seems to make them work properly again.

6/ When you direct a unit to "run" when the game is paused, and then unpause the game, the unit immediately reverts to walking. Also, ordering a unit to disable phalanx formation when the game is paused only works about 50% of the time, ie half the time they will stay in phalanx formation.

7/ Problems with units ignoring orders generally.

A note about the Port Blockade Bug: It is also possible for the player to enter one of his ports (that is being blockaded by a hostile AI fleet) with his fleet, without needing to fight the enemy.

Probably this topic can help to list all bugs:

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...opicID=5.topic

I think the Blockade bug is not a bug. I think it was mentioned to be a feature sometime around the patch being released. And that is fair enough as the Carthies managed to run the gauntlet to Lilybaeum and Drapana to bring in supplies in the First Punic War.

Anyway, I can confirm the no-sally-survivor-yet-no-victory bug, as I have experienced it myself. In fact it happened right after the Fight-to-the-Death bug I mentioned earlier.

1: Fire at will command enables a unit to fire at an enemy that is not engaged with one of yours which is fine since it reduces friendly fire losses. The problem is that sometimes you do want to fire at an unit that is overpowering one of yours. Now, with a hastaii or principii unit they will throw two spears then charge. Put on guard command they should remain in their position and fire until ammo is depleted and not charge afterwards. Am I making sense?
2: Many units runs past their given deployment location and then back again to it. This causes units that are given a deployment close to a enemy unit to actually run into them and then try to return to their place.
3: Battelmaps needs fixing since there is a lot of screwed up coast lines. I can´t even remember when I played a battle last without the coast looking like a landfill area.
4: All the different CTD´s that people are experiencing. RTW needs to be more compatible with XP, nVidia and ATI cards etc. CA should really take a look at this and the save-game bug.

Thanks for listening and a truly epic game that has brought me countless hours of pure joy.

Sometimes a group of units ordered to attack an enemy unit (double-click) will behave as if ordered to run to that location. I've found that the problem can be solved by choosing the individual unit cards and then ordering the attack, so I don't know the reason. I suspect the trouble is from groups created before the battle begins?

Quote:

---

6/ When you direct a unit to "run" when the game is paused, and then unpause the game, the unit immediately reverts to walking. Also, ordering a unit to disable phalanx formation when the game is paused only works about 50% of the time, ie half the time they will stay in phalanx formation.

---

Are you sure of this, I've never experience any such problem.

Remember, we only want confirmed bugs. Don't put CA off with lots of minor issues. Stuff like "Problems with units ignoring orders generally." needs to be explained a bit more. They will probably want definate instances, like "units ignore orders when in group".

Quote:

---

1: Fire at will command enables a unit to fire at an enemy that is not engaged with one of yours which is fine since it reduces friendly fire losses. The problem is that sometimes you do want to fire at an unit that is overpowering one of yours. Now, with a hastaii or principii unit they will throw two spears then charge. Put on guard command they should remain in their position and fire until ammo is depleted and not charge afterwards. Am I making sense?

---

Um, not to me :embarassed:.

Could you explain again?

I think we could do with a quick list of trait bugs:

Of course, there's the double combat trait bug for starters. If you fight in manual combat, all trait triggers are checked twice.

GeneralLostHPRatio trigger is bugged so that it wors differently in auto and manual battles.

Heroic saviour and shieldbearer ancilliaries use GeneralLostHPRatio as a percentage (0-100) when it should be a ratio (0-1.0).

GeneralFoughtInCombat trigger doesn't work properly. Affects coward traits.

Good farmer traits have very high thresholds, making them impossible to gain without farming temples and extreme luck/micromanagement.
Bad farmer traits have very low thresholds, making them very easy to gain. Swapping the good/bad farmer thresholds would make it work sensibly.
Poor Assessor is perhaps a bit too easy to gain too which especially annoys newbies who don't understand exact triggers. Increasing the threshold or trigger chance would be a good idea.

And since no-one's mentioned it yet: The difficulty levels are bugged, making it easier on V.Hard for some reason (tested in 1-on-1 custom battles)!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by screwtype

2/ The pathfinding bug in cities is still extant. In my last siege battle for instance, I directed my missile cav to run away from an advancing phalanx, instead they charged straight INTO the phalanx. (Oh, and they had skirmish mode on too).

---

Skirmishers with skirmish mode turned on is somewhat uncontrollable when the enemy is that near that they (the skirmishers) consider to fall back.
Turn off skirmish mode and you will avoid this problem.

Issue: Retreating ships

1) They should be effected by ZOC.
2) Their pathfinding of the AI's retreating ships appears to be bizarre. If not, why does a decimated AI fleet often "retreat" through the players fleets ZOC (see point 1) and continue toward player controlled territory rather than back toward its own territory.
3) AI controlled retreating ships appear to be given extra movement points (I dont know how this could be tested so its just an observation). How else could one explain playing ping-pong with AI ships back and forth across the Adriatic 3 times when I can only move across once during my turn?

Archery bug/oddity:
Units in Fire at Will will not fire at a unit engaged, nice. But it will fire at a unit that is routing, even if it is pursued by a friendly unit. It is as if they ignore the change made with 1.2 when the enemy routs.
Not fun when the enemy unit consist of one man while your unit consists of lightly armoured troops such as light cavalry or mercenaries.
Also it can at times be hard to force units to fire into a melee (but that is way better than no being able to stop them).

Routbug on walls:
Why has this been ignored two times already. At least there should be a comment about others perhaps experiencing it.
Units still Fight to the Death on walls when they should be routing, despite supposedly fixed in 1.2. Not a good situation most often.

Issue: attacking ships in port

IMO, it should not be possible to always (or ever) attack ships in port (which often had their own highly effective defenses against attacking ships). OTOH, ZOC should prevent ships from leaving or entering without fighting.

Issue: Routing enemy

IMO, we need a "pursue" command that will allow all friendly units that are without existing commands to to engage the nearest routing enemy unit. Too often the end of battles consists of spotting units that have stopped dead and ordering them to attack a routing enemy unit that is passing near ,or even through, the players stopped unit.

Hm, I dunno if we should include that. Its not a feature which doesn't work, its not really an issue, its more of a wishlist. Oppinions?

Sorry about that Kraxis, I've added it now.

Quote:

---

AI controlled retreating ships appear to be given extra movement points (I dont know how this could be tested so its just an observation). How else could one explain playing ping-pong with AI ships back and forth across the Adriatic 3 times when I can only move across once during my turn?

---

Don't retreating armies get extra movement points too? I think this is a feature.

replay bug
when exiting a replay occationally it will start again

mybe it is not a bug .. but when I order alot of my troops to do movements while my general beeing chased by a chariot his horse halt and he do his imotion of raising his sword and then continue running but this result beeing cought alone with the deadly chariot and his boudygards away from him.
thx for all :bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Grouped cavalry speed bug - Grouping a quick cavalry unit with a slow unit results in both units moving at the speed of the fast unit Please could someone confirm this, the final list should only contain confirmed bugs

---

This might be, again, one of the issues that could be a "feature" instead of a bug, as the units seem to use something of an average speed for the group's units in order to keep form, and it affects infnatry as well.

I don't know if this qualifies as a confirmation, but here is a replay showing the issue. Two silver shield legions and two militia cavalry units are placed on line, with one silver shield grouped with other militia cav. Others are ungrouped. Single units and the group are ordered, at the same time, to run to a line some ways away. Grouped units stay in form, militia cav slows down and the silver shields accelerate. The ungrouped units travel at normal speed. As a result, ungrouped militia cav is the first one to arrive, grouped units are second, with the grouped silver legion leaving the ungrouped silver legion significantly behind.

If the manual states otherwise its a bug. I'll add it.

I'll put the grouped unit speed on hold till I can find out more.


Has anyone else experience the difficulty level bug? Any research?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Don't retreating armies get extra movement points too? I think this is a feature.

---

I think they do but, it doesnt appear to be near the same extent and so doesnt cause the same (irritating) glitch. I've attacked fleets near the nile that retreated toward Crete/Cyprus, were attacked again and retreated toward Crete, were attacked again and ended up near Greece. Its too much especially when the movement ignores ZOC. Naval 'strategy' becomes meaningless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Hm, I dunno if we should include that. Its not a feature which doesn't work, its not really an issue, its more of a wishlist. Oppinions?

Sorry about that Kraxis, I've added it now.

---

The issue is that player (but not AI) units will stop in the middle of a battle instead of pursuing an enemy that is moving close to or even through the stopped unit. I find it especially noticable with horse archer varieties and cav (since my inf units almost never catch the olympic caliber sprinting of the routing units).

Myrddraal,

Please add the charge effects/charge bonus to the "issues" category. Those of us who have tested it agree that it doesn't work in a logical fashion. While it may be intentional, it doesn't work right and results in cataphract archers having more powerful charges than heavy lance armed units that were designed for charging.

The horse archer bug also afflicts chariot and elephant archer units. Also, the skirmish description for it is incorrect IIRC. The units fail to fire on the move, whether in skirmish or out of skirmish. They will fire once, then stop firing or go through th motions but fail to fire. Issuing a new set of orders will get them to fire once, then they get stuck again. As a result sometimes the AI can keep them firing this way since it continues modifying orders, but it is very challenging for a human.

Pila Animation Halting a Charge I would describe as a bug since its effect is very wierd and reverses what should happen. It should certainly make the issues list if it isn't on the bug list.

K, I'm trying to stay on top of this. Any help from another mod would be appreciated...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

If the manual states otherwise its a bug. I'll add it.

I'll put the grouped unit speed on hold till I can find out more.


Has anyone else experience the difficulty level bug? Any research?

---

In real life they would usualy put slow mooving Units at the front
Then they would force faster mooving units to slow down When grouped in formation,

I think that should be the case for the game as well,

Honestly a slow mooving unit should not be able to moove faster becous you grouped it with a faster mooving unit,
Id say its a bug or glitch.

In city streets, all AI units incur fighting fatigue even when not actually fighting
When I am defending a city street and many AI units come down that street to engage me, all the AI units are designated as "fighting", thereby incuring the fighting fatigue rate eventhough only the front unit is actually fighting my unit. The other AI units are not engaged, but are blocked from engaging by their own men. The effect of this is to cause all the AI units to become exhausted which lowers their morale, fighting ability and movement speed. Usually this results in all of the AI units in that street routing when the unit up front that is actually engaged routs. The AI has no chance unless its lead unit can break through fairly quickly. This is particularly noticable in RTW v1.2 because the fighting fatigue rate was increased.


In cities, the AI doesn't use ranged units effectively
The AI doesn't position ranged units at the head of a street and shoot down the street in an attempt to damage the enemy units blocking that street. It will often use these ranged units in melee when they would be more effective shooting.


The AI is too likely to use the general early in the fight
This is disastrous for the AI when it has a general with command stars leading the army. It's disastrous for the current tactical battle, and for the long term strategic campaign since the AI general might have gained a command star if he had stayed back and his army won the battle, but he is now eliminated entirely from the game. Even if the AI had lost the battle, it would retain its general possibly with one less command star which is still better than loosing him.


Phalanx is not effective enough against cavalry
There is too much frontal pentration of the Phalanx by cavalry forcing the phalanx to switch to its sword thereby loosing its anti-cav ability.


Phalanx game mechanic problems
The level pikes are held parallel with the angle of the feet, and this means they are somehow rendered ineffective when the phalanx is operating on a slope which is curving upwards. The pikes should be raised so that the points are high enough above the ground to be effective.

Sword infantry that is ordered to run into the front of a phalanx to a position behind the phalanx will pass between the pikes and force the pikemen to switch to their less effective sword. In other words, it's more effective to double click on a point behind a phalanx rather than to double click on the phalanx when attacking it frontally.

The tactical AI uses the phalanx as individual units and therefore targets individual enemy units. It exposes phalanx flanks when it does this, and doesn't seem to see the value of maintaning the integrety of the battleline.


Battle difficulty bonus is being added to both human and AI
The melee bonus for hard and very hard difficulty settings should go only to the AI not to both AI and human player. In addition, that bonus should not be entirely a bonus to the attack value. At least some of it, if not all of it, should go to the defend value. The fighting already goes too fast and adding bonues to attack makes it go even faster, and it's stuff like this that is driving away the people who used to play total war series.


Charge Bonus
There is something strange going on with the way charge bonus works, and I'll back Red Harvest that it should be looked into by CA. It's impossible for the community to figure out what's going on with this since no info on how the game calculations are made was ever released by CA.

The pause and speed altering hotkeys in battle are unreliable.
Many times when I tried to use them the effect would toggle twice, e.g. pausing and then instantly unpausing. It's not a case of holding the keys down too long; this happens even when the keys are only tapped lightly. The problem is not constant; about half the time the hotkeys do work as expected. The interface shortcuts work correctly, but in the minimal UI those buttons are missing. This isn't a frame rate relayed issue either; it happens in both large and small battles.

There was a thread about this a few months back; no solution was found.

@Myrddraal - good effort on your part for the community.

I suggest you also look at the CVP's readme for around 20 bugs as well as many issue fixes to add to your list as a well as the stuff we have on the thread at TWC. (personal note: with Therother already active with your support efforts I'm sure he will see to it that at least the stuff in the CVP is covered.)


-Spartan

Can we include specific AI bugs?

On the campaign map, the AI doesn't attack when it clearly has superior forces. For example, Scipii (AI) is at war with Numidia (AI) but instead of attacking they will continue to amass many large stacks of armies on the border that do not attack, or even enter, Numidian territory. This goes on for many years.

Another one--In RTW 1.0 the AI would over-build its naval forces to the extent that it would eventually bankrupt itself if it never lost any of those naval units in battle. This was fixed in 1.2 but now it has gone the other way. Now the AI rarely builds naval units, and when it does they are easily defeated because they won't stack them into large fleets like they used to. (This might be related to Scipii not expanding reliably.)

Brutii (AI) don't expand across the Aegean. Instead, once the Greek/Macedon region is conquered they expand northward into Thrace, Dacia and even Scythia. This is probably related to the AI naval deficiency bug above. Since the Romans never bothered with conquering Germania or "Scythia", I think this should be considered a bug on both a historical basis and the fact that the AI still obviously has trouble crossing bodies of water via ships, unless it is near the beginning of the game, (it appears to be "scripted" to do so.)

The AI never attacks Crete or Hibernia.

On the battlemap, when defending wooden walls that haven't been breached and entered yet, the AI will run its forces back and forth behind the walls, making them exhausted and allowing them to be picked off easily by missile troops. What it should do is attempt to conserve stamina. Run them to a destination allow them to rest up.

On the battlemap, again stamina should be a consideration for all possible courses of action. For instance, when the AI can't make up its mind what formation it should use to defend with, it will wear its units down by running them all over the place including up and down a hillside. No formation can be so good that it would be worth making your units exhausted trying to get into it. The AI should continue to attempt to change formations when it deems necessary, but if its troops are getting too tired it should be less likely to change.

Last one--On the battlemap, the AI will give up a hilltop position by maneuver. If facing an army with no apparent weaknesses, (i.e. the AI has decided it's not ready to charge yet), the AI will allow the player to march up the hill and take it, while the AI retreats off the hill. This maneuver involves the player keeping the lines facing the AI while moving troops sideways up the hill as if flanking. The AI is attempting to prevent a flanking maneuver, but in doing so it gives up its hilltop advantage to the player. Instead, the AI ought to take its height advantage into account while responding to an obvious flanking move. If the player tries to flank up the hill, instead of moving away as it would on flat ground, the AI should hold position and/or attack the player's flanking maneuver while it holds the height advantage, rather than rotate its formation allowing the player to take the hill. Rotating away from the player's flank attempt works only on flat ground. When holding a hill, the AI should take advantage of the hill while it still has it. It's as if the AI only values a height advantage during pre-battle, but during the battle it forgets that there is a hill there and it should attempt to hold that hill at all costs.

I've had two instances of my general freezing and getting slaughtered by other troops. It says he's marching, but he aint marching as far as I can tell. I keep double-clicking and nothing happens. He just stands there looking around. I think he's high or something.

Another thing with generals. I charged my greek general unit into the back of a carthaginian general and did zero damage. Infact his movement was stopped like he hit a stone wall. The other general turned around and killed mine. I guess some leaders are born with an iron ass or something.

Aw crap, I forgot I'm using 1.1. I don't want to waste space with something already fixed. Can anybody confirm, please?

I suggest two things:

1) Every single bug needs to either include a save that displays it clearly, or a method that shows it clearly. This is critical. It's not enough to say "it's been tested," you have to specify what the test is so CA can see for itself. There's no point otherwise.

2) Only the most egregious, consistent, and specific AI flaws (e.g., "loading a saved game severely inhibits AI aggressiveness in the first turn after the load") should be mentioned. AI is immensely complex, and you can't fix a problem like "the AI doesn't attack when its forces are clearly superior" the way you can fix a UI problem or an animation problem or whatever. There's no point in including fundamental AI inadequacies here—of course they know that the AI isn't top-notch. We don't need to tell them that.

-Simetrical

Marian Reforms Bugs

1. Praetorian Guard are trainable before the Marian Reforms take place. This occurs because they are trainable at the Imperial Palace, which no longer immediately triggers the Marian Reforms event. The effect is to improperly give the Romans access to a legionary-style unit before the reforms.

2. Pontic and Scythian generals are not upgraded to their armoured model. This is apparently due to a missing "general upgrade" attribute.


Marian Reforms Issue, Possible Bug

After Patch 1.2, non-Roman factions are completely dependent on the progress of the Roman factions for the upgrade of their generals, rather than being able to effect this themselves by building their highest level governor's building.

Apparently nobody's mentioned this, but AI armies will sometimes exit the battlefield without a fight even when they don't have the option of retreat, so they end up losing all their units.

About Assasins not getting experience for sabotage. It could make sense since they need the spy's expertise to get information about the target. The spy should get more of the credit. Assassins, assassinate and get points for that. The spy should be the one to destroy buildings get a saboteur rating. How subtle is conan the destroyer with a spiked club?

Well since neither get any bonus from it, you can bet it is a misplaced feature. Either the spy was the old saboteur or a coder made a small mistake. Result: It doesn't work as it should, thus very much fixable.

There are many small inconsistencies in the stats of the units. We can supply a lengthy list of them if it is deemed worthy of mention. But none of them can be considered bugs and as such are less important.

About the grouped units' speed:
It is very much worthy of mention, even if it isn't a bug per se. The units act strangely and in a way we in general do not like. So I think it is perfectly ok to include it as a bug so that it has a chance of being looked into (even if only to be determined a working feature). If we let it sit on the sideline there is a chance it will be ignored.
Also we have had it confirmed, and personally I remember a lengthy discussion about it some time ago. So it is far from an unknown entity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PseRamesses

1: Fire at will command enables a unit to fire at an enemy that is not engaged with one of yours which is fine since it reduces friendly fire losses. The problem is that sometimes you do want to fire at an unit that is overpowering one of yours. Now, with a hastaii or principii unit they will throw two spears then charge. Put on guard command they should remain in their position and fire until ammo is depleted and not charge afterwards. Am I making sense?

---

Yeah, I forgot about that because it's a while since I played the Romans. The only way you can fire your missiles without charging as hastati or principes is to put the units on autofire, but then you can't direct your fire at a particular unit. There should be some way to direct your fire without having your units charge afterwards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PseRamesses

Many units runs past their given deployment location and then back again to it. This causes units that are given a deployment close to a enemy unit to actually run into them and then try to return to their place.

---

I think that's a "feature" rather than a bug.

Quote:

---

Sallying Enemy bug I – Killing all the sallying enemy's forces doesn't give automatic victory to player (reported by Oaty). I think Oaty was trapped outside.

---

I believe that's a misinterpretation if I remember correctly. The A.I. might possibly have unlimited sallies on last turn at least 2 for sure, could be the human has multiple sallies on last turn too and noones noticed. They sallied twice on the last turn to be starved out. First turn they sallied grouped up outside the walls, did not engage timer ran out. Returned to the campaign map expecting the occupy/enslave/exterminate message. Instead the A.I. sallies again, at least this time they grouped up and attacked. This time I had either taken the town square or decimated thier army to 10 percent of it's original size. Forget wich but this time it allowed me to have the city even though I should have had it on the first unsuccesful sally. Part of this problem might have been the A.I. had trouble coping that I was deployed on a side that had no gate on that wall.

BUGS

The A.I. can do multiple sallies or at least 2 when it is the turn they starve to submission/death.

CTD very easy to reproduce When the A.I. sallies and you drop your ladders (the 15 build point ones). With the ladders on the ground select some unit(s) and go to string them across in a line. When you do this if the mouse cursor has a palm and you go to string them out you get a CTD every single time. In the heat of battle this can be annoying.


Exploits

Siege towers/rams create an obstacle course or great flank protection. The second exploit is the unit with a siege tower/ladder has it already equipped and if it is far from the gatehouse can quickly march forward take the wall and automatically forces the A.I. call off it's sally. I feel that on a sally siege equipment should be deployed behind your lines unequipped as siege equipment was usually very well protected. Plus this allows the A.I. some time to prevent you from taking the walls.

A.I. attacking across bridges. I'd prefer the A.I. park there army next to mine instead of attacking and wasting a full stack unless the odds are about 5 to 1 in thier favour.

Expendable units. too often I route wardogs befor they have a chance. A.I. should release them right away with a proximity trigger.

Issues

A.I. assaulting towns many issues here.

First is an all cavalry army trying to assault.. The A.I. did have 1 unit of archers on a battering ram that was quickly destroyed by the gatehouse. So I'm not sure if they would not have tried an assault if the 1 foot unit was'nt there.

Second Rams are nearly worthless on stonewalls with less than a ~ 10 percent chance of success. But the A.I. still makes an attempt with them

Third breach in the wall/ spy opens gates. The A.I. bumrushes that breach allowing a potential massacre of thier army with a small garrison.

Fourth A.I. does'nt seem to use all thier build points, quite often I see a stack of 20 units Wich usually equates to 250-300 build points for me and when I am assaulted I do'nt think I ever see more than 200 worth of build points used. Also A.I. building sap points on wooden walls.

Fifth the A.I. does'nt do a good calculation of siege equipment to garrison ratio. 20 units VS 10 should maybe have the A.I build for 2 turns instead of aggresively assaulting as soon as it has siege equipment.

Sixth when the odds are overwhelming such as 20 units to 2 the A.I should send in waves instead of exhausting there whole army.

Seventh the bumrush all together. The A.I. should agrressively try to take the breaches, after that though I think the A.I would be better suited in taking the town center in more of a column style and NOT overlapping units. Along with this not engaging more than 2 units per path but to have a unit waiting close behind.

Eigth Generals might have a chance on the battlefield but is near nada when sending them in first on an assault.

Ninth routing units at the gate. Half there army is inside and routing, the other half is outside and trying to get in.

Tenth Automatically on deployment skirmishing should be turned off by default as skirmishing works very poorly in cities and in reality makes sense. The A.I. has too many problems with this.

Eleventh defending missile units, they are perfectly in good range of my units fire 1-3 rounds then dance around all in the meanwhile allow my archers to take them down to nothing. If my archers can hit them that means they can return the favour if they are matched in range ability. So stop A.I. archers from moving if they are in range of something. Same should go for assaulting

Twelfth does'nt occur too often but the overshoot feature should be disabled in city battles. Do'nt know if it's the overshoot feature or pathing causing this but units will run way way past thier destination then come back and line up.

Thirteenth ability to move sap points on the deployment stage, unless I'm doing something wrong. Because Marcus(advisor) says I can move them.

Battlefield archers same as towns stop the A.I. from dancing archers if there is an enemy in range unless of course it is the skirmishing feature causing this.

Battlefield, the A.I. does'nt do a good asessment of when you can shoot them to death.

Trapped skirmishing unit, Example Roman cavalry auxilia get chased to the redline. I hit withdraw, instead of running across the line they were chased to they try to withdraw the direction the army came from. Cavalry at least should be able to withdraw across the line that is closest to them.

Skirmishers in general I micromanage them so that they are no longer in between the redline and an enemy but for some odd reason if they are close to the redline they try to run around the enemy getting themselves pinned again.

I do'nt mind the horse archers being nerfed but the fact that they are pinned in by redlines makes this toning down a bit harsh

All cavlry armies/cavalry scouts. They should always have the withdraw option unless also opposed by an all cavlry army.

Also the no withdraw option should only be enabled for the first 5 to 10 minutes. Or at least units that have been routed then rallied should be able to withdraw.

A.I. not retraining fleets, also ships should try to retreat to the nearest friendly unblockaded port.

Campaign armies. A.I. does'nt make good choices when you play as an eastern faction. Boring battles when the A.I. attacks you with an all infantry army minus up to a few units of cavalry.

Cavalry needs a population/control method.

A.I. not milking any cities/towns to allow population increase. It should at least try to milk some cities that are'nt on a threatened border.

Capitals can be bribed at least the A.I. can bribe them.

Also the A.I. bribes towns well out of thier reach such as Briton bribing Croton or Julii bribing Condate Redundem that's taking in the fact that the Julii are still maintained to the Italian peninsula. Perhaps bribed cities should be limited to borders or distance to friendly territory. Islands can/should be excluded

A.I. emisary has a mission to bribe a city before it is under siege. The A.I. somehow bribes the city when it gets besieged.

A.I. Phalanxes trying to squeeze in between 2 units to get at there flanks. A.I. phlanxes need to concentrate on what's in front of them after that if there is nothing in front of them work on a flank of a unit

A.I. rarely uses reserves wich allows easy breakthrough in it's lines.

Multiple basic A.I. tactics such as engaging the center withdrawing cavalry on 1 flank and moving it to the other and try to roll down. Also perhaps make a record of succesful/unsuccessful plans making it more likely to use one it is more successful with.

A.I. needs to concentrate less on trying to hit the flank of every single unit and try to maintain a line of cohesion for at least a portion of it's line.

Cavalry is too often seen in the opening phase especially in the center where cavalry is usually most thretaned

Less predictability too often well protected skirmishers get charged right away, allowing me to quickly destroy there strongest part of there army there cavalry

A.I. needs to stop moving thier infantry and rely on thier cavlry/reserves for adjustments, currently the A.I. is left with too many gaps wich cause them to loose thier center quite early too often.

A.I. does not change depth of unit according to the unit sizes you selected wich leads to a very thin A.I. line up to 4 times as long as mine on huge settings. Leads to an easy breakthrough on the A.I. line and to work out on them.

Advance and engage, allows units you select to march forward and only attack what's in front of them.

Deployment phase 1.1 showed an x where the enemy was approximately deployed. 1.2 this feature was taken out. I like that feature,

the main reason I liked was that it allowed you to deploy your army parallel to thiers. Now when I hit start battle if the lines are'nt paralel to each other I occasionally get the A.I. dancing around due to my moves when all I'm trying to do is to match my line paralel to thiers before I march on them.

Just my short little list ~:cheers:


Side note: fighting to the death workaround. If they are stuck on the wall and you can clear enemy troops close by, you can then walk a unit up on the wall, they then they quit panicking allowing you to get them off. However if there are enemy troops down below you may or may not stop them from paniking by walking a unit by. So it does work to a degree.

screwtype: When you direct a unit to "run" when the game is paused, and then unpause the game, the unit immediately reverts to walking. Also, ordering a unit to disable phalanx formation when the game is paused only works about 50% of the time, ie half the time they will stay in phalanx formation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Are you sure of this, I've never experience any such problem.

Remember, we only want confirmed bugs. Don't put CA off with lots of minor issues. Stuff like "Problems with units ignoring orders generally." needs to be explained a bit more. They will probably want definate instances, like "units ignore orders when in group".

---

Oh, absolutely. It happens EVERY time I tell a unit to run when the game is paused. I am really suprised you have not experienced this. I thought everyone would be aware of it.

The phalanx bug is similar, but it only occurs about half the time. Not too sure about the guard button, I'd have to check that one.

Haven't played in a while, so i don't remember the exact mecanic of this bug:

Protectorates are still bugged in 1.2, mostly in the economic side: (IIRC) when i demand a protectorate and the other one accepts, it is now THEIR treasury the one that gets severely decimated. This error continues to show up in every single turn( in the economic summary), but the money is added no more.


Ok, perhaps i don't explain myself very clear, so let's give an example: I was Carthage and was at war with egypt. I had 200k and they had 300k in treasury. Somehow, they accepted to be my protectorate.

The next turn, i noticed my treasury has gone from 200k to nearly 500k, i saw the diplomacy section of the summary and noticed that i had 300K of income just for the concept of diplomacy... this part is where begin to suspect this is a bug

Next turn, everything goes back to normal (from 500k to 505k in treasury), however, the economic report indicated that i had ANOTHER 300k from diplomacy... at this point i AM certain this is definately a bug

This campaign was played in unmodded RTW 1.2... could someone give any confirmation of this happening to you??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viking

Skirmishers with skirmish mode turned on is somewhat uncontrollable when the enemy is that near that they (the skirmishers) consider to fall back.
Turn off skirmish mode and you will avoid this problem.

---

The enemy wasn't that near. It was absolutely blatant - I ordered the cav to retreat around the corner and instead they charged straight in the opposite direction right into an enemy phalanx. And would not obey any orders to do otherwise. In the end I just had to bum rush the phalanx with everything available in order to save the cav.

But IMO, I think this bug occurs whether or not a unit is on skirmish mode. You tell a unit to run one way in a city and it races in the opposite direction. Haven't you ever experienced that? It's happened to me quite a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpencerH

The issue is that player (but not AI) units will stop in the middle of a battle instead of pursuing an enemy that is moving close to or even through the stopped unit. I find it especially noticable with horse archer varieties and cav (since my inf units almost never catch the olympic caliber sprinting of the routing units).

---

Oh, you've noticed that too? It's not just me then.

Yes, I had just that problem with horse archers the other day. Ordered to attack a routing unit, they repeated pulled up in a dead stop just behind the routing unit and failed to attack it. And I definitely did not have skirmish mode on.

The unit ended up routing across half the battlefield and escaping because I just could not get the horse archers to press the attack.

I'm not sure though whether this happened when the horse archers were grouped or ungrouped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

The pause and speed altering hotkeys in battle are unreliable.
Many times when I tried to use them the effect would toggle twice, e.g. pausing and then instantly unpausing. It's not a case of holding the keys down too long; this happens even when the keys are only tapped lightly. The problem is not constant; about half the time the hotkeys do work as expected. The interface shortcuts work correctly, but in the minimal UI those buttons are missing. This isn't a frame rate relayed issue either; it happens in both large and small battles.

---

I wouldn't go along with your exact description of the problem but the game's response to pause button keypress when on high speed is definitely random. That is one reason I would never use the minimal AI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magraev

Sometimes a group of units ordered to attack an enemy unit (double-click) will behave as if ordered to run to that location. I've found that the problem can be solved by choosing the individual unit cards and then ordering the attack, so I don't know the reason. I suspect the trouble is from groups created before the battle begins?

---

Well, I always group and place my units before the battle so I wouldn´t know but I will try it. I defenitely know that this occurs when you order a group of units to a certain location so there defenitely must be a bug.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TF923

On the campaign map, the AI doesn't attack when it clearly has superior forces. For example, Scipii (AI) is at war with Numidia (AI) but instead of attacking they will continue to amass many large stacks of armies on the border that do not attack, or even enter, Numidian territory. This goes on for many years.

---

I have the same experience. Ifaik many people too.

Campaign:

1. City passed to new level and its surroundings may be covered by "fog of war". Units near such city may became unselecteble.

2. Family members in cities immediately starts to gain bad traits.

3. Governors gains almost only bad traits.

4. Squalor effect is too big.

5. In 1.2 AI builds too small number of ships. Those ships are of worse types though best types are already available to faction. Now AI builds ships only in Mediterranean and Atlantic and doesn't build ships in other seas (this possibility is required for any non-original maps).

6. After Marian reforms Senate still give triarii for successful missions.

7. Reward for Senate's mission may not be shown sometimes. Though you will be rewarded after success.

8. You cannot demand a city which you are sieging.

9. Seleucids are too easily to agree to became protectorate of Egypt.

10. If some faction declare war on your protectorate, you may not declare war on aggressor and still be protector of that faction.

Battle:

1. Skirmishing units in skirmish mode may run straight into enemy instead of running away.

2. Some of barbarian rebel archers may became British swordsmen (after falling?).

3. Pike units lose in phalanx combat with hoplites. But indeed they must win, 'coz pikes are longer then spears - so hoplites just cannot reach their opponents.

4. During pause grouped units destination position is not visible until you turn off pause.

5. Archers (maybe Roman only) in skirmish mode begin to run away from attacker too late. So they became engaged in combat and defeated.

6. Some units may gain value even without any engaging in battle.

Siege:

1. When you fights with enemies climbing on ladder and kill first enemy all soldiers in this unit immediately die and drop down the wall.

2. Flaming arrows don't fire siege equipment.

3. When you assault the city with player-controlled reinforcement and this reinforcement have some units with seize equipment, those units may disappear before entering the battlefield.

4. Units standing on walls may loose soldiers without any visual causes (such as fighting, being under fire, some soldiers dropped down)

5. Assaulting AI armies may frieze near walls if their seize equipment is damaged. So you can just simply shoot 'em all.

Dunno if it's bug or feature. Some different farm levels have the same income value and effect on population's growth.

Hi guys, i dunno if any bugs/issues have been mentioned abt pathfinding in cities and towns and also abt sieges. Also correct me if its intended to be a feature.

1. Units in cities moving through streets often get stuck in a house at the side of the street, u click on a spot, and u can see foot/calvary units all bungling together and "sticking" to the walls of the houses as they move to the spot.

2. Don't know if this is a feature or bug: when u assault walls with siege towers, the damage counter in percentage is not accurate, i always get 0% even though fire arrows are fired on it and when it reaches the wall, soldiers climb to the top and b4 they descend on the wall, it collaspes! doesnt happen everytime..but wondering if others experience the same prob? and at least the damage counter should reflect something...it does for rams on wooden walls.

side note: is the enemy ship ability to move out of the port that i blockaded a feature? and i also xperience the AI problem where huge stacks massed at borders without doing anything. Esp when i played the germans once, when i reached the roman borders, i found out only the scipi expanded into africa and Bruti took some rebel towns, Julli hardly touched the gauls and i was hoping they would give me a helping hand!

Quote:

---

The A.I. can do multiple sallies or at least 2 when it is the turn they starve to submission/death.

---

So Oaty are you saying that the sally bug where you don't win despite killing everyone doesn't exist. I thought someone else confirmed it. Could you write the bug in the same format as I've been using in the list.

Quote:

---

I don't think that's a bug, I think it's a feature.

And the reason I say that is because you pay more to retrain units with experience - a LOT more. I've got some units of militia hoplites in my current game I won't retrain because the game wants me to pay several hundred denarii for 2 or 3 new soldiers.

In fact now I tend to just merge units with high experience so I'm not faced with the expensive business of retraining them.

---

This is strange, in the manual it says it waters down the experience (is that right?) but you pay extra to retrain them. Ur right this seems like a feature not a bug. I'll take it off the list.

Quote:

---

screwtype: When you direct a unit to "run" when the game is paused, and then unpause the game, the unit immediately reverts to walking. Also, ordering a unit to disable phalanx formation when the game is paused only works about 50% of the time, ie half the time they will stay in phalanx formation.

---

Strange, I've never experienced this. (or perhaps I didn't notice) Could someone else confirm it to make sure its not unique to screwtypes computer...


About AI bugs

Many of the bugs reported are AI bugs. I would define a bug as a feature which is supposed to do something, but doesn't. Stuff like "The AI should attack more often" isn't a bug, its a lack of feature. Its not something they need to fix, its something they need to add, so I won't be adding it to the list.

Quote:

---

1. City passed to new level and its surroundings may be covered by "fog of war". Units near such city may became unselecteble.

---

Is there a link to some research. This seems a bit vague. Is it that when a city gets upgraded it can no longer see (hence the fog of war)?

Quote:

---

2. Family members in cities immediately starts to gain bad traits.

3. Governors gains almost only bad traits.

4. Squalor effect is too big.

---

These are issues not bugs. I'll try to add them to the issues list, but I'm a bit short for time so for the time being I'll concentrate on the bugs.

Quote:

---

8. You cannot demand a city which you are sieging.

9. Seleucids are too easily to agree to became protectorate of Egypt.

---

Again, more like issues. I'll try to get around to it :smile:

Quote:

---

Some of barbarian rebel archers may became British swordsmen (after falling?).

---

What do you mean? Do they just change into a different unit? In what situation?

Quote:

---

When you fights with enemies climbing on ladder and kill first enemy all soldiers in this unit immediately die and drop down the wall.

---

Do you mean if you kill the first man on the ladder? Is this only the men on the ladder or the whole unit? Are you sure this isn't a feature, like pushing away ladders or something?

Quote:

---

1. Units in cities moving through streets often get stuck in a house at the side of the street, u click on a spot, and u can see foot/calvary units all bungling together and "sticking" to the walls of the houses as they move to the spot.

---

Is this the same as the bugs where units get 'stuck' in allyways?

Thx for clearing these points up for me. I've added some now, I'll add more later..
Thx

The CHARGE BONUS issue MUST BE ADDRESSED ,

FOR THE SAKE OF ALL FUTURE MODDING !!!

"Charge Bonus" has NEGLIGIBLE effect in battle
The Damage caused on charge impact is largely effected by "ATTACK SKILL" and "ARMOUR VALUE".

This is a SERIOUS problem in the battle mechanics which hinders unit stats balancing almost FATALLY.

The EFFECT of this bug/issue is:

-One can NOT make a unit vunerable to normal ( non- armour piercing ) weapons or missile fire, and still keep the charge inpact high.
-One can NOT reduce the overall kill/death rate of a unit while still keeping the charge bonus of that unit high.

This causes a whole array of further stats issues which i wont mention.

In short :
Having to use ATTACK SKILL and ARMOUR RATING as methods of balancing charge bonus puts HUGE flaws into all unit balance processes AND IS ALSO AN ODVIOUS REASON FOR ANY CURRENT INBALANCES IN VANILLA RTW's STATS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by screwtype

screwtype:Also, ordering a unit to disable phalanx formation when the game is paused only works about 50% of the time, ie half the time they will stay in phalanx formation.

---

I can confirm the phalanx bug. Happens to me quite often.

I think many of the 'issues' are more important than the 'bugs'. Maybe it requires a seperate list?

When I get home, I'll check out the effect of pausing (since I do it a lot anyway given the battle speed).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Quote:

---

1. City passed to new level and its surroundings may be covered by "fog of war". Units near such city may became unselecteble.

---

Is there a link to some research. This seems a bit vague. Is it that when a city gets upgraded it can no longer see (hence the fog of war)?

---

I can share only my personal experience. When the city gets upgraded it became covered with FOW such as it belongs to another faction. But the banner is yours and you can get into and manage this city. Units can come in and out. But units that where near this city at the end of previous turn becomes unselectable until you get another unit close to it and uncover FOW. In some case it's enough to just come out of city some unit to uncover FOW around city. But sometimes you have to wait for one or few turns until FOW uncover itself. "Hope", I'm not the only one who saw this bug?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

These are issues not bugs. I'll try to add them to the issues list, but I'm a bit short for time so for the time being I'll concentrate on the bugs.

---

As my boss love to say: Documented bug is feature. ~;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Quote:

---

Some of barbarian rebel archers may became British swordsmen (after falling?).

---

What do you mean? Do they just change into a different unit? In what situation?

---

Yes, they become another unit - British chosen swordsmen, with their model, skin and weapon. I'm not sure when it happens, seems that they may became swordsmen after falling and stand up (you know, some units falls, but they not dead and stand up to fight again). I even saw a post about it somewhere on TWC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Quote:

---

When you fights with enemies climbing on ladder and kill first enemy all soldiers in this unit immediately die and drop down the wall.

---

Do you mean if you kill the first man on the ladder? Is this only the men on the ladder or the whole unit? Are you sure this isn't a feature, like pushing away ladders or something?

---

Enemies climbing on ladder, first men getting to wall and you begin combat. When you kill any enemy all units from his squad that were on ladders becomes laying dead on the ground. They just lay in line like they climbed a moment before. If this is imitation of pushing away ladders - then it's very stupid and annoying imitation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Is this the same as the bugs where units get 'stuck' in allyways?

Thx for clearing these points up for me. I've added some now, I'll add more later..
Thx

---

erm allyways? sorry not familiar with this slang ;)
surely u don't mean corridors? ~:confused:
thats how i interpret lol..ok back to topic, i mean those streets in cities. when u click a point on a street, it will proceed and turn as normal but sometimes it ends up piling onto the side of the street, i.e. the walls of the houses and gets stuck until u issue a new command. annoying esp when u r trying to co-ordinate a multi-pronged assault on the city square...

Quote:

---

So Oaty are you saying that the sally bug where you don't win despite killing everyone doesn't exist. I thought someone else confirmed it. Could you write the bug in the same format as I've been using in the list.

---

AI can do multiple sallies This only has occurred on the turn they are to be starved to death

A.I. builds sap points on wooden walls I can't build them for a wooden wall and the sap points do'nt show up when I'm assaulted so this is a bug.

A.I. does not use up all of it's build points for its besieging army

Also I'd appreciate if you add this CTD to your list as I've learned to avoid this but limits on where and how you can move your troops to avoid this

CTD very easy to reproduce When the A.I. sallies and you drop your ladders (the 15 build point ones). With the ladders on the ground select some unit(s) and go to string them across in a line. When you do this if the mouse cursor has a palm(grab icon) and you go to string them out you get a CTD every single time. In the heat of battle this can be annoying.

Diplomats with a mission before a city is besieged both mine and the A.I.'s diplomats appear to be able to talk to besieged cities if they were assigned to that mission before it is besieged. Does not happen 100 percent of the time but it leads to the A.I. bribing besieged cities.

Feature that was taken away Deployment phase 1.1 showed an x where the enemy was approximately deployed. 1.2 this feature was taken out.

Rams built to go against a stonewall Theres less than a ~ 10 percent chance of success so there chances need to be increased or the A.I. needs to abandon building them

Besieged A.I. leaves skirmish on Skirmishing does not always work well in cities and should be off by default upon starting the battle.

Overshoot feature in cities units run way too far past thier intended position then run back. If the intended target position was close to the center of the city they overshoot as far as the city walls or out the gate then come back. This occurs occasionally.

ability to move sap points on the deployment stage, unless I'm doing something wrong. Because Marcus(advisor) says I can move them

Exploit of the sallying A.I. Siege equipment is already equipped allowing the human to assault the walls immediately, as soon as towers/ladders hit the wall the A.I. calls off it's sally. Siege equipment should not be easily accessable on a sally.

This last one I'm sure this is not right but will go into the game when I can and see if I have the option to bribe away the enemies capital, The only thing I know for sure is you can't bribe thier last city. Has anyone else run into this as I've had my capital bribed away more than once.

A.I. diplomats can bribe your capital out from under you unless I'm wrong here I thought this was'nt meant to be possible

Well I put it in a much better format this time and hope these can make it to your list.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by screwtype

I wouldn't go along with your exact description of the problem but the game's response to pause button keypress when on high speed is definitely random. That is one reason I would never use the minimal AI.

---

In my experience the problem also happens when the game speed is normal, not just when the speed has been turned up to maximum. I had the same difficulty pausing and/or speeding the game up that I did slowing it back down.