EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans!

We hesitated presenting this faction to you this week. We're not quite sure how we will top this preview. However, we felt the time was right to reveal these units. As usual, we have a mix of artists working on the units, as well as many people involved in their creation, and everyone will be given proper credit when the mod is released. However, this week special thanks goes to Spartan Warrior.

This week, the EB team is proud to present:

http://img242.echo.cx/img242/262/log...1medium6sv.jpg

http://img204.echo.cx/img204/1743/ba...12848247gb.jpghttp://img204.echo.cx/img204/7074/baktriamap19pz2ac.jpg

"Of all the frontiers of the ancient world, none has endured so long in the poetic imagination as the kingdom of Baktria. In those distant haunts of the Hindu Kush, nearly three thousand miles east of Athens, the Hellenes imagined a never-never land untouched by civilization. Rivers of honey oozed on the Baktrian frontier; fierce griffins guarded the precious gold mined by giant ants; people had ears the size of an elephant's, ate their parents, and lived for centuries." According to tradition, the god Dionysos was the first to tame this land, then Herakles, and finally Alexandros. The realities of the kingdom of Baktria are more difficult to come by however, and the influence of the Iranian peoples played a larger role than the legends reveal. While the history and culture of the kingdom of Baktria is obscured in the mists at its home near the top of the world, it is known that at its largest extent it encompassed an area consisting of all of Turkmenistan, Tadzhikistan, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, up to the Indus.

The forces of the kingdom of Baktria are an exciting mixture of Hellenic and Iranian (and if you choose to expand there, Indian), and you will not lead them to glory on the field of battle without utilizing the best of both worlds. Mainland Hellenes straight from Thessaly and Athens served with Hellenized Iranians and locals throughout Baktria's realms. Hellenistic phalangites and Iranian spearmen will make up the core of your infantry. From the lightest armed local levies in Hellenic and indigenous panoplies to the successor state phalangites, you will have many different types of infantry from which to choose. Any Baktrian king will strive to quickly recruit a royal foot unit suitable for this kingdom and will find that the mobile and elite Baktrian hypaspists, whose equipment and style is a curious mix of a Hellenic unit adapting to the terrain, climate, and fighting styles of Transoxiana, will turn the tide of many battles. You will have to rely heavily on your countless varieties of cavalry, including regional javelin and bow mounted units of varying abilities, Median and Baktrian medium cavalry, as well as Hellenistic and uniquely Baktrian cataphract cavalry. The cavalry are supplemented by Indian elephants, which Baktria supplied in large numbers to the Seleukid empire before its independence. A variety of skirmishers are also available, including well armored and elite units as well as the Baktrian Doryphoroi, whose spears and bows make them one of the most intriguing units available anywhere.

The kingdom of Baktria was constantly harrassed by nomads and Sakai from the north, and the Seleukids did not let Baktria go without a fight. The relationship with Parthia is stormy and you will need to choose your path with them carefully; good relations can help to stave off the decaying Seleucid influence in the region, but even then they are a threat that Baktria will have to deal with if they are to move west. The Hindu Kush provide a monumental barrier to the southeast, but any enterprising king must lead his forces across the top of the world to make India his own, and the Bactrians are better poised to do this than any other faction. With India at your back and the barbaric nomads to the north contained the dream of Alexandros' Brotherhood of Man can become a reality that sweeps across the eastern world!



Here we have the Baktrians in action.
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/9089/aagemaattack8jw.jpg
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/6876/aagemafight6fm.jpg
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/3971/aarchersfight9lw.jpg
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/3102/aarchersfire9mr.jpg
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/9819/ap...davance8rm.jpg
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/7138/ap...aifight8jt.jpg
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/6186/ak...icharge0mk.jpg

Of course, the units:
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/1169/upantodapoi9nu.jpg
Pantodapoi Phalangites are the standard levy of the Seleucid Kingdom and others influenced by the Successors, including Pontus. They are tough and reliable infantry, but are prone to rebellion and discontent and are hence more expensive than their Macedonian contemporaries. They are mostly levies of Jewish, Syrian, and Persian descent that are co-opted into the army. They fight as pikemen, with a soft leather cuirass, pikes, round Illyrian style shields and Phrygian caps. This makes them a viable pike unit, though they are less disciplined and more prone to flee than more reliable Greeks and Macedonians that make up the Pezhetairoi. They can be counted upon to present a solid wall of spear points to the enemy, but their lack of discipline and intensive training makes them even more prone to a flanking attack.

Historically, the Seleucids and others used pike levies from their various subject peoples to make up parts of the battle line that were facing the enemy’s least valuable troops. They gave decent accounts of themselves at many battles, but were the first line to break in the disasters at Raphia against the Ptolemies and in Macedonia against the Romans. They made up more and more of the Seleucid battle line as time went on, due to the dwindling number of Greek recruits that the army could draw upon for the pike units (most went to the more elite units), and more and more Asiatic peoples were put into the Pezhetairoi class and given land grants, to make up the loss. Still, these more unreliable formations were still used in many places.

http://img204.echo.cx/img204/8949/upezhataroi6st.jpg
Pezhetairoi are the bread and butter military unit of the Successor States. They are well disciplined and highly motivated pikemen that are armed and armored to the teeth. They are armored in a linen cuirass, a Thracian cap, a bronze greave on the right leg, stout boots, good bracers, and reinforced shoulder pads made from hardened linen (due to their experience with the deadly curved swords of Thrace). They have Illyrian style round shields attached to their bodies by leather straps that help support the weight of the shield and keep their hand free to grasp the sarissa. They are defensive infantry par excellent. They are the anvil of the two part Macedonian system of warfare, the heavy cavalry being the hammer. They should be used to anchor enemy soldiers while the Theurophoroi harass the flanks and the heavy cavalry smashes into the flanks and rear.

Historically, the Pezhetairoi are the classic Alexandrian phalanx. They were used to great effect against the Persians, Medes, Bactrians, Indians, Phoenicians, and many, many others. They are an effective force and have not changed much over the centuries. The Romans were able to defeat them as easily as they did for two main reasons. One, the Roman army was at a high state of readiness and tactical prowess after defeating the Carthaginians. Two, the heavy cavalry arm of the Successor armies had degenerated to the point where they were no longer able to field significant numbers to fulfill their part of the hammer and anvil tactic of Alexander. There were many small reasons, numbering among them the misuse of the Thureophoroi, the underuse of Peltasts, and the lax state of warfare that the Successor states were used to. In any case, the phalanx was not as anachronistic or inflexible as widely believed; it was simply used in the wrong way. In the thirteenth century onwards, pikemen in similar formations were able to work wonders with more capable generals and a better cavalry arm. Do not under appreciate pikemen, for they are still a war winning force.

http://img204.echo.cx/img204/1916/udoruphoroi9kl.jpg
Armed with spear and bow these troops are not well regarded by their Greek masters having formed the bulk of the Old Persian army defeated by Alexander the Great. Seen as skirmishers and auxiliaries with the heavy Greek infantry forming the battle line. These Iranian Spearmen are recruited from the eastern reaches of the Iranian plateau and are very common in the armies of Baktria. They are the backbone of the traditional tribal militia and form a major part of the Baktrian tribal levy. They are armed with the traditional Iranian weapons, an 8' spear and a composite foot bow. A large decorated brown leather quiver of arrows would be slung on the left side with the bow case on the right. A long plain yellow tunic with close fitting sleeves at the wrists. The tunic would be held with an narrow embroidered Parthian linen belt. Trousers are worn under the tunic and are close fitting. Soft felt ankle shoes are secured with leather or fabric straps.

Historically, the vast Iranian plateau gave rise to a form of infantry rarely seen in the west. Armed with 8' spears and composite short bow these infantry are well suited to conditions in the east facing nomadic enemies relying on long range archery to which they men are well able to respond. Nomadic cavalry is reluctant to engage close order troops and these men can fill both roles. They are versatile and can be dangerous if used properly. They are however no match for heavily armored infantry. Individually, they are skilled but not outstanding warriors, but their versatility ensures that they will be useful to any commander. These men however, prefer to rely on archery to inflict harm on the enemy. They can hold the line against weaker infantry and cavalry but they cannot be relied upon to put up an extended fight if the situation is not in their favor.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/3307/uindogreek3yk6jl.jpg
Indohellenikoi Hoplitai: After the kingdom of Baktria attacked and seized its Indian possessions, it found the Greeks who had been living there had adapted somewhat to native ways. Gone was the close phalanx formation and the long spear, replaced by a somewhat looser but more skilled melee formation. They adopted a Phrygian style helmet, light cotton Thracian trousers, and javelins, in addition to a smaller and lighter shield. This allows them to be excellent elephant killers, as well as defeat the more lightly armored infantry of the east. They can be used as a good medium infantry, to screen the flanks and protect against elephants and cavalry while the Thureophoroi deliver the fatal melee blow.

Historically, the Indo-Greeks adapted quite well to the environment of India and prospered. Many became Buddhists, though they still remained fierce warriors, true to their Hellenic forbearers. They are an excellent medium infantry, well able to compliment other troop types and provide a versatile unit against light cavalry and elephants.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/391/upheriaspidai9rb.jpg
The Baktrians, not being a proper successor to Alexander’s legacy, had no force of elite shock infantry to draw upon after their split from the Seleucid empire. To take the fortresses of their mountainous homeland, they were forced to develop such a force of heavy infantry. Armored in lamellar and scale, they are a force of heavy infantry to be reckoned with. They have stout iron greaves and helmets, and are armed with xiphoi and javelins. This infantry can be used as a shock assault infantry par excellence. They are best when right in the middle of the action.

Historically, Baktria was a mountainous land, filled with hill tribes and fierce peoples, raided constantly by steppe nomads and ferocious peoples to the south and west. They developed this sort of heavy infantry to man and rapidly deploy from their mountain fortresses, protecting the legendary fertile valleys of the Baktrian kingdom.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/1512/uagema0pk.jpg
The Baktrion Agema are the result of the adapting of the Hypaspists, a fast moving phalanx formation of elite troops, with Baktrian climate and topography conditions influencing several changes in the unit, including a distinctively "Oriental" look. They are a Royal bodyguard unit and are elaborately decorated and equipped. They are made up of the elite of the Baktrian phalangites and are a very expensive unit to maintain.

As with all Hypaspists, they are not a regular line unit, but are designed to strike quickly at weak points or support areas in the line in dire situations. Their speed also makes them more effective when dealing with nomadic troops. These elite troops may have had some religious or sacred significance too, as they are equipped with the insignia of Anahita Artemis in numerous locations on their gear.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/8148/ub...elin0lq7ai.jpg
Armed chiefly with javelins these horsemen hail from Arachosia, Bactria, Sogdiana and similarly equipped light cavalry were also supplied by the levy from Persis and Media. Their flexible nature makes them well suited to the fluid, aggressive style of warfare so common on the eastern frontiers. Mounted on a swift horse, armed with nothing but a small crescent-shaped 'Taka' shield, short spear, and a handful of javelins these swift moving horsemen can be deadly. Their small, nimble ponies can negotiate most terrain easily, and they're capable enough to survive contact with the enemy, but their strength remains in maintaining their loose style of fighting.

Historically, cavalry of this kind was supplied by both nomadic and settled populations on the eastern marches of the old Achaemenid Empire and kept fighting for and against the states that succeeded it. Equipped with javelins, they would advance on their target at less than a gallop. As each rank came into range, these warriors would turn away, hurling their javelins at the target, and retire to safety before the enemy could retaliate. The result was often a swirling mass of charging and counter-charging horsemen as they reformed to attack again.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/8447/ub...ncav7mc9rd.jpg
The Baktrian cavalry under Greek rule is much the same as the Baktrian cavalry under the former Persian rule. They are tough lancers; able to punch holes through most enemy lines, and are among the best cavalry of their type. They are armed with a long kontos and an axe, making them versatile heavy cavalrymen.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/3898/ukataphraktoi7nb.jpg
After suffering heavy losses to the Parthian and Armenian Cataphracts, the Seleucid and Bactrian empires produced their own versions of these heavy horsemen, both adapting the unit to Greek technology and using superior metalwork to make them even more heavily armored. They are armored in an expensive combination of lamellar armor and chain, with heavy felt sandwiched in the middle. The resulting armor is tough and flexible, but offers outstanding protection. They are to be used as heavy shock cavalry, and have staying power in melee because of the sheer weight of their armor. They are slightly heavier than their Parthian counterparts, but lack the deadly maces that the Parthians carry and also the élan of their elite Parthian counterparts. Their horses are as heavily armored than those of the Hetairoi, but they lack the characteristic fierceness and discipline of the elite successor cavalry.

Historically, Hellenistic Kataphraktoi were at least as good as their Parthian enemy, but most Seleucid commanders did not quite understand how to use this cavalry. They won great victories over the Parthians when supporting the heavier and more elite Hetairoi, compelling the Parthians to settle for a peace treaty and suzerainty over some of the Seleucid eastern possessions. They passed into history when most of the unit was bribed by Pompey during his conquest of the east. They formed the basis for the Roman cataphracts of later ages.

Here, we have a few treats from Teleklos:
http://img29.echo.cx/img29/5839/logo...a1small7oi.jpg

http://img217.echo.cx/img217/415/bak...per28in.th.jpg

We hope you enjoyed this week's update.

Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures shown in our news posts are of works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and will do so long after our initial release.

As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them would be here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70

Or here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=60

We give special thanks to http://www.imageshack.us who provide us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

Have a wonderful day!

Sincerely,

-the EB team

VERY GOOD!!!! some of the best looking skins ive seen so far from you guys. so when is it available again???? lol

Was I right, or was I right?

haha wow! some of those skins are outlandishly cool!

4 of the baktrian units are in my personal top 10 best looking EB units, so far. :bow:

who skinned the elite shock infantry, btw? that skin is simply AMAZING!!!

edit: thanks for posting it so soon in the weekend, btw. ~;)

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Originally Posted by Big_John

who skinned the elite shock infantry, btw? that skin is simply AMAZING!!!

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I did the initial description, Seydlitz did a remarkable concept art rendering, and of course Spartan Warrior did the unit (and helmet), with lots of help from Urnamma at all points along the way. Urnamma did most of the unit descriptions (I think) with lots of help from sharrukin for the non-Hellenic units.

I should also add that Dux Corvanus did the absolutely gorgeous icon. ~:)

Something tells me the Baktrians will be conquering the world in the near future...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

I did the initial description, Seydlitz did a remarkable concept art rendering, and of course Spartan Warrior did the unit (and helmet), with lots of help from Urnamma at all points along the way. Urnamma did most of the unit descriptions (I think) with lots of help from sharrukin for the non-Hellenic units.

I should also add that Dux Corvanus did the absolutely gorgeous icon. ~:)

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well hot damn, keep it up guys!

http://www.forumshq.com/images/smilies/rockon.gif

what is that (celtic?) unit in the very first screen?


also, it looks great, but i just can't get over those duck helmets on the Agema

They are just fighting them.
About those "duch helmets", I thought it was pretty funny to, but it's accurate.

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Originally Posted by runes

what is that (celtic?) unit in the very first screen?

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Apparently an extremely lost bunch of Irishmen.
(https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=46312)

That's what happens when you drink too much with your friends... one minute you're all stumbling across the Irish countryside looking for a convenient tree to urinate on, and before you know it you and your mates have somehow ended up in Baktria going head-to-head with some pikemen wearing ducks on their heads.


(edit: corrected spelling)

they look great :D

I've never seen a boeotian helmet like that. Could you guys post an example?

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Originally Posted by Acutulus

I've never seen a boeotian helmet like that. Could you guys post an example?

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It's a more conservative version of a strange "Boiotian" helmet (the normal type of which was very popular among Hellenic Baktrians) that is found here. Hard to see them, but there are four of them on both of the figures (only one shown on that link). The horse ears are traditonally found on most Boiotian and other type helmets of Baktrian kings and are found on the link above's helmet as well. But the "barnacles" on the helmet above puzzled us to no end. It was clear that they were painstakingly molded onto the figures and so we thought they should be included. We love the helmets! I'm still pushing for their inclusion in another Baktrian unit (unfortunately some of the other best ones weren't even included in this preview), but we'll just have to wait and see on that. ~D

edit: *After* unit creation we found an artist's recreation of the unit in a book on the Baktrian military. They changed the helmet up more than we did, and didn't get a few details I think we got, but it wound up exceedingly similar to ours. ("Baktrian Royal Foot Bodyguard")

Very interesting, a little off setting at first, but I must say they're growing on me. Great job yet again. ~:cheers:

Very good job again EB. I think this faction will be among the strongest.... ~:cheers:

Bartix! Great work. Nice to see horsese with saddles.

*dribble*

damn beta COUNTDOWN....

so.... theres not really much point anyone else makin a mod if it wont be ready before EB is there! ;)

To the EB Team........
I have followed this project and been very impressed with the work you have produced but this time you have surpassed yourselves.
Every single thing about this faction looks truly amazing and I am not surprised they appear to have become the favourite faction!

I am totally stunned!! I am champing at the bit to try this Mod!! Please don't prolong the torture too much, the waiting is agony ~;)

........Orda

oooooohhh

Sweet Sean Hannity! Best Countdown ever!

I'm just sad that little Bactria gets so little land to start with. I guess I'll have to fix that.

:charge:

Awesome

Wow, lots of work went into this.

Maybe Sega will hire you...

No, they don't know how to make a good historically acurate game.

I really enjoyed this update; it has piqued my interest in Baktria. However, I noticed that the description for the Pezhetairoi still says "greave on right leg". ~;p

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Originally Posted by Steppe Merc

No, they don't know how to make a good historically acurate game.

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How do we know? Have they ever tried?

Cool stuff indeed! ~:cool:

But this is countdown to Beta, how about fullversion, will it come next month or this month?

As you might see, I`m a completely newbie to mods.

Full version will probably come a few months after the open-beta.

"No, they don't know how to make a good historically acurate game."

Steel Panthers
Close Combat

Exactly, most Games by Sega that i played were quite fun, well balanced, not too buggy (at least not as excessive as RTW) and if they were meant to be they were also most often quite historical. Spartan total Warrior of Course is more Fantasylike.

Ps: Eb will of course be more fun, Bug free, historical etc ~D

Man, I love the fact that you decided to include Baktria in your mod! The pictures above made me want to perhaps play Baktria before I play the Sarmatians as I had planned... Apart from all the nice units, I also happened to notice that you'd done a great job on the terrain - much better terrain than in vanilla R:TW imo. The Baktrion Agema deserve extra credits :). The first in action screenshot, and the in action screenshot of all the archers who had just fired their arrows, really got me into the athmosphere.

The Baktrians are one of my favorites just because of their location... all those Greek colonies lost out in Transoxania and the Hindu Kush... just plain Romanticism!

And those Indo-Greeks... even though I saw them a good while before you guys did, I still ain't over them! They're amazing! That shield! OMG I'm gonna faint :fainting:



~Wiz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Wizard

The Baktrians are one of my favorites just because of their location... all those Greek colonies lost out in Transoxania and the Hindu Kush... just plain Romanticism!
And those Indo-Greeks... even though I saw them a good while before you guys did, I still ain't over them! They're amazing! That shield! OMG I'm gonna faint :fainting:
~Wiz

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From Bactria he entered Sogdiana
Across the fertile pastures of Ferghana,
The hunting lands of arrow, spear and sabre,
Of Ghengis Khan and Tamerlane and Baber.
His Macedonian coins still come to hand
In Merv, Bukhara and in Samarkand.
V. Mersey, Alexander of Macedon

And here's a great story about the discovery of the largest gold coin ever minted in the ancient world - from Bactria of course ~;) :

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In fact, no single Bactrian coin has ever caused such a stir as his great gold masterpiece. This massive 20-stater coin is of the standard Eucratides type, with portrait of the king on the obverse wearing a commander's cloak, a royal diadem and a great plumed helmet decorated with the ears and horns of a bull. The reverse offers the king's usual type, two mounted horsemen—the heavenly twins, the Dioscuri of Greek legend—charging to the right. Eucratides's usual titles appear on the coin as well. It is not the style, exceptionally fine though it is, which makes this, in the words of one expert, "the rarest coin in the world"; it is the extraordinary size. At 63 millimeters in diameter (2½ inches) and more than 169 grams (six ounces) of Bactrian gold, it is the largest such coin ever minted in the ancient world, apparently to celebrate the king's conquest of Demetrius of India. There is only one specimen known in the world today—but that such a huge coin could escape the melting pot at all is amazing luck for us.

The unusual story of this coin's discovery can be tracked down through various newspaper accounts from over a century ago. In June of 1867, a French numismatist associated with the British Museum was dining with a group of collectors in London. One of the guests told about a strange encounter he had had that day with a shabby beggar trying to sell an ancient coin. He described a gold piece so large that all at the table agreed it must be a forgery. Yet, as the conversation drifted to other numismatic topics, the French expert could not get the gold coin out of his mind. Finally, in what he called "a fit of numismatic fever," he excused himself and set out to follow the trail of the beggar. When the two finally met late one night in a ramshackle London flat, the expert demanded to see the coin at once. The beggar explained that he had come all the way from Bukhara, where he and six others had found the coin. In a matter of minutes, he said, daggers were drawn and five of the men were dead. The two survivors agreed to smuggle the prize to Europe and share whatever price it brought. Then, his story told, the mysterious fellow took off his old coat, his shirt and his undershirt; he lifted his arm and pulled from his armpit a filthy, sweaty leather case with the gold coin sewn inside.

With an "electric shock," the numismatist held the coin and convinced himself that it was no forgery—but he knew that he must conceal his enthusiasm as he bargained down the price. The traveler from Bukhara insisted upon £5000 for the giant coin; the expert handed it back and wrote a check ... for £1000, adding coolly that this was his offer for the next 20 minutes. After that, he said, "I'll give you only £800, and so on until I get to £500. If you don't close the deal tonight, tomorrow I will not take the coin at any price."

They stared at each other for more than 19 minutes. Then the beggar snatched the check for £1000, and handed over the coin.' "This," reported the numismatist to the new papers, "is the rarest coin in the world, and the one for which the highest price has been paid. Since it cost the lives of five men, I do not think anything more was paid for it than it was really worth. It ought to have been saved for the delectation of numismatic amateurs in all times to come, even had fifty or one hundred lives been sacrificed."

If you have in mind some numismatic delectation of your own, however, do not ask to see the coin at the British Museum. Though associated with that great institution, the buyer was a Frenchman first of all. Through the special attentions of Emperor Louis-Napoléon, the 20-stater gold piece of Eucratides was immediately purchased by the Bibliothèque Impériale, now the Bibliothèque Nationale, in Paris.

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http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issu...r.and.gold.htm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Wizard

And those Indo-Greeks...

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yeah, that skin is ridiculous! i love the bears (?) on the breastplate and that patterned shirt and shield.. who did those? there are some skinning masters on this mod team. strange thing about that shirt, i hardly notice the "crotch"-stretching problem i've seen on other skins.

Ah, modifying factions is one thing, but creating another one altogether is a feat indeed. Good job! Now...what about the Indians? :-)

Holy crap those archers have spare bows! Cool

wow, great. really

about those Indohellenikoi Hoplitai there are both skirmishers and melee. but the discription reads that thureophoroi should be used to finish it off in melee. does this mean that the Indohellenikoi Hoplitai are inferior to thureophoroi?

the heavy assault units looks great, whats it called? lov ethe shield size.

wich reminds me. will al hoplite shield be that big? how big will pikemen shields be, like in the pic. or is it wip?

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Ah, modifying factions is one thing, but creating another one altogether is a feat indeed. Good job! Now...what about the Indians? :-)

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They won't be their own faction. Not enough of our map includes them to warrant an entire faction.

They can't add factions, they had to axe numida.

But it was worth it ~:)

numidia sucked anyway. hated them. only had like 9 units.

Well if the EB crew did Numidia they'd no doubt have about a million ideas for Numidian units.

I'll make this first posting of mine a salute to the EB team.
May your lives be long and prosperous ones, may your Hondas never break down in traffic and may you always be accompanied by 'appreciative camp followers'.

Baktria really does look astonishing..guess it'll be Baktria first for me, once EB is all done and ready to go. Whooo-hooo!

By the by, the Baktrion Agemata's 'duck' helmets, aren't they what the Hetairoi also wore in real life? Looks familiar.

Wow first real look at EB and it is truley as awsome as people have said ! Might even take this and not bother with BI when its out.

BI? whats that?

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Originally Posted by jerby

BI? whats that?

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The RTW expansion, Barbarian Invasion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tibilicus

Wow first real look at EB and it is truley as awsome as people have said ! Might even take this and not bother with BI when its out.

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i think it's safe to say that EB will be the reason i buy the expansion, if it enables EB to improve their mod.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big_John

i think it's safe to say that EB will be the reason i buy the expansion, if it enables EB to improve their mod.

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Fo' sho'

Ya, im looking forward to what the modders will do with the expansion more so than what creative will do. Heh, they dont care as long as I fork over the dough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big_John

i think it's safe to say that EB will be the reason i buy the expansion, if it enables EB to improve their mod.

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You're not the only one.~:cheers:

Hey Sfwartir, welcome to the org!

You're right, the Agemata helmets were a common Alexandrian accessory, possibly second only to the Phrygian-style helmets. 'Duck' helmets, though, completely eludes. They don't look so much like ducks as curtains draped across the temples.

Just to say hello. This is my first message in this forum. As far as I can see from the posts, most of you are from the US, and very few people come from the Roman Empire (Hispania, Galia, Italia, Britania, etc). This is curious, at least. By the way, your mod looks fantastic, much better than RTR which I am playing now. Many greetings from Barcino, Tarraconense (today Barcelona ~:)

What makes you say that? Most of EB team is, IIRC, from Europe, or of European descent...
and where do you all Iberians come from, honestly! another one!

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Originally Posted by LegVIIGemina-Tarraconense

Just to say hello. This is my first message in this forum. As far as I can see from the posts, most of you are from the US, and very few people come from the Roman Empire (Hispania, Galia, Italia, Britania, etc). This is curious, at least. By the way, your mod looks fantastic, much better than RTR which I am playing now. Many greetings from Barcino, Tarraconense (today Barcelona ~:)

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In fact, there are 5 Iberians on the team (I am one of them) and most of the team is from Europe, although we have quite a few citizens of the USA.

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Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri

In fact, there are 5 Iberians on the team (I am one of them) and most of the team is from Europe, although we have quite a few citizens of the USA.

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Sarcasm, Angadil, Aymar and me... Who's the fifth? ~:confused:

BTW, Tarraconense, greetings from Gadir/Gades... ~:wave:

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Originally Posted by Dux Corvanus

Sarcasm, Angadil, Aymar and me... Who's the fifth? ~:confused:

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Well, then I was wrong. There are 6 Iberians in EB. To that list you have to add [cF]Hanbaal and Deadrunner, both Portuguese.

and isn't there one American of iberian descent?

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Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri

Well, then I was wrong. There are 6 Iberians in EB. To that list you have to add [cF]Hanbaal and Deadrunner, both Portuguese.

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Lusitania 4, Celtiberia 2...

Pedro, bring the muskets! :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by eadingas

and isn't there one American of iberian descent?

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In fact, many American EB members are also somehow represented in the game... ~;)

extremely interesting story, Teleklos. Though the site where it is seems a little... overinterested in mythical places. It does beg the question wether there are no Indian sources on Bactria? Apparently they've bashed at least the north west of India quite and should've left some impression. White colored, powerful troops from such a backward place as Bactria would have been noticed, I think, by the Indians.

never would have guessed sarcasm is iberian. where is khevlan is american isnt he?

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Originally Posted by Ellesthyan

extremely interesting story, Teleklos. Though the site where it is seems a little... overinterested in mythical places. It does beg the question wether there are no Indian sources on Bactria? Apparently they've bashed at least the north west of India quite and should've left some impression. White colored, powerful troops from such a backward place as Bactria would have been noticed, I think, by the Indians.

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Frank Holt, the guy who wrote the article, is the most trustworthy source that has yet written on Baktria (IMHO). He's done a lot to break down the myths of Baktria without constructing something else that's imaginary. Mostly a numismatist. The part about India and their impression there is very interesting, but virtually nothing survives in the climate (stone being an exception) and outside of oral history that was later transcribed and word of mouth that reached the greeks (Plutarch knew of Menander-the great Baktrian-Indian king, but didn't write a history of his life), there is little to go on. Maybe some archaeology will help clear it up one day, but it will always remain obscure. A century or so after arriving, the Baktrians were mostly absorbed into Indian culture as a whole. Art historians have had a blast with stone sculptures though and some big controversies have occurred over greek influence on early indian sculptures of Buddha and other religious themes. I highly recommend Holt's book "Thundering Zeus", even Tarn's or Sidky's histories of Baktria if you can't get Holt.

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Originally Posted by LegVIIGemina-Tarraconense

Just to say hello. This is my first message in this forum. As far as I can see from the posts, most of you are from the US, and very few people come from the Roman Empire (Hispania, Galia, Italia, Britania, etc). This is curious, at least. By the way, your mod looks fantastic, much better than RTR which I am playing now. Many greetings from Barcino, Tarraconense (today Barcelona ~:)

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We have plenty of Europeans on the team... Iberians, Britons, Germans, etc... to use the ancient terms. ~;)

Personally I'm from the Netherlands, or Germania Inferior (mostly; everything outside Germania Inferior is periphery anyways...). But I do Parthia along with sharrukin and Steppe Merc, who're from the US (?). You don't need to be from the place to know a lot about it, and be correct about what you know. If anything, it helps you be unbiased and open to many opinions about the subject.

Those silly Iberians... tried to dominate the Burgundian Kreis... or, well, the modern Netherlands.



~Wiz

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Originally Posted by jerby

never would have guessed sarcasm is iberian. where is khevlan is american isnt he?

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khelvan, not khevlan. And yes, he is an US citizen.

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Originally Posted by The Wizard

Those silly Iberians... tried to dominate the Burgundian Kreis... or, well, the modern Netherlands.

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The area has seen it's share of conflict throughout the ages. Just in the middle ages, Charlemagne and successors, French, Burgundians, English, Spanish, etc...

IIRC, Spanish intervention there was motivated by those Habsburg heritages scatered all over Europe during Charles V's empire. That was not an easy domain to manage for a small country like Spain that had colonies scatered in the americas too.

Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor

And you must remember that Portugal was not involved in the process. Read some of our stories in the Indias against you Dutch pirates... :wink:

Besides, remember the Spanish tercios? They did make the Dutch's fight for independence a very hard task.

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Originally Posted by The Wizard

Those silly Iberians... tried to dominate the Burgundian Kreis... or, well, the modern Netherlands.

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I see the Duke of Alba's shadow is a long shadow... ~:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Aymar

That was not an easy domain to manage for a small country like Spain that had colonies scatered in the americas too.

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Well, scattered is not the word. Apart from the Low Countries, half Italy and the Philippines, Spain dominated all America from North California, Texas and Florida to Patagonia, except that big sick jungle full of head hunters and mosquitos... how is it? ~;)

Besides, around that era, and for a century, we also tried to dominate -without much success- a small country that had colonies scattered in Africa and SE Asia, opening European commerce to Japan and China... ~;p

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Besides, remember the Spanish tercios? They did make the Dutch's fight for independence a very hard task.

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And among the bravest in the Tercios, no few Portuguese fought against the heretic scum.
Iberia rules! ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by jerby

never would have guessed sarcasm is iberian. where is khevlan is american isnt he?

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是，我是美国人

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Originally Posted by khelvan

是，我是美国人

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So hard-headed. That's why we call him kevlar. ~:joker:

Mmmm, Chinese characters look like tiny TV antennas to me... ~:confused:

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Originally Posted by khelvan

是，我是美国人

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A Japanese American?!

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Originally Posted by TheTank

A Japanese American?!

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He just committed seppuku!!! ~:joker:

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Originally Posted by TheTank

A Japanese American?!

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我不是日本人

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Originally Posted by khelvan

我不是日本人

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I am not the Japanese..........?!

Babelfish ;-)

是，我是美国人=Yes, I am an American

This is funny game ~;)

:bow: :bow: :bow:

So you're Chinese Khelvan? Or did you use a translator?

Neither. :bow:

我学中文

You study Chinese too? Tones are my nemesis!

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Originally Posted by khelvan

Neither. :bow:

我学中文

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Do you study mandarin or kantonese or both languages?!

Mandarin. However, the characters are universal - the meaning, at least. A Mandarin and Cantonese speaker can communicate with no misunderstandings through the written language. The meanings are the same, the pronunciation much different. Even some Japanese characters are shared, so a Chinese speaker may be able to decipher some small portion of written Japanese.

I think Zhongwen refers to Mandarin.

haha I am chinese and learning to write chinese, that is...Mandarin, oh ya I also speak a bit Fujianese but I understand(listen) it very well, one of the hardest provincinal languages in China ~D

units as whole are of very high quality. But allow me some notices (i know there is work to be done yet).
The metal surfaces could use alittle more work in meshes and gradients.
the horses nostrils(sp?) of Bactrian Cataphracts seems to be too close to each other reducing the perspective width of horse head. Its a detail but details compile the whole ~:)
BTH did you saw Blue Lotus mod horses? They look very very good. How about borrowing them ~;)

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Originally Posted by Dux Corvanus

Well, scattered is not the word. Apart from the Low Countries, half Italy and the Philippines, Spain dominated all America from North California, Texas and Florida to Patagonia, except that big sick jungle full of head hunters and mosquitos... how is it? ~;)

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Ah! Yes. That little piece of land that only encompasses 70% of total area and has about 60% of all economical wealth of South America. It's called by some tree that only appears there, right? :thinking: Is it something like... ...Brasil? :wink:

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Originally Posted by Dux Corvanus

Besides, around that era, and for a century, we also tried to dominate -without much success- a small country that had colonies scattered in Africa and SE Asia, opening European commerce to Japan and China... ~;p

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And you only got 3 kings here because they were cousins of the deceased and heirless D.Sebastião. :wink:

Let's not delve in to Portugal-Spain warfare or we'll be here all night...

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Originally Posted by Dux Corvanus

And among the bravest in the Tercios, no few Portuguese fought against the heretic scum.
Iberia rules! ~:cheers:

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Watch out for The Wizard's reply... :scared:

Do you use pinyin to help learn characters? I find it rather helpful.