Woman almost wins Indy 500

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Patrick drives home a point
Fourth-place finish best by a woman; Wheldon wins

Tarik El-Bashir, Washington Post

Monday, May 30, 2005




Indianapolis -- Ten laps remained in the Indianapolis 500 when Patrick passed race leader Dan Wheldon. Earlier Sunday, Patrick had become the first woman to lead the race -- now she had her sights set on winning it.

More than 300,000 fans stood and screamed, sensing they were 25 miles from witnessing history.

But Patrick's fuel-starved racecar began to slow slightly, and Wheldon retook the lead on Lap 194 of 200. He held on to win a race that will be remembered at least as much for the woman who didn't win as the man who did.

Patrick, a 23-year-old rookie, wound up fourth, the best finish ever for a woman. (The previous best was Janet Guthrie's ninth-place finish in 1978.) Patrick had dialed back her car's fuel consumption -- which costs horsepower -- in the final laps to make sure she had enough to finish.

"If I could have run full fuel, we'll never know," Patrick said. "I'd like to think we could have won it."

Instead, after a race that featured 27 lead changes -- the second most in its history -- Wheldon collected his fourth victory in five Indy Racing League races this season. The win gave team owner Michael Andretti what he had come so close to but never quite pulled off as a driver: a trip to Victory Lane at the Brickyard and the obligatory sip from the milk jug.

"No more curse," said Andretti, whose family had been plagued by bad luck here since his father, Mario, won the race in 1969. "This place had been tough on me personally. But I just always had the feeling that one day I would have some good memories here."

Vitor Meira, Patrick's Rahal Letterman teammate, finished second and Bryan Herta was third. Wheldon, who started 16th, took the checkered flag under caution after Sebastien Bourdais smacked the outside retaining wall with two laps remaining.

"I'm certainly satisfied in the fact that I've won the Indianapolis 500 in my career," an emotional Wheldon said. "I mean, it's a kid coming from England. You know what the race is like watching it on TV and reading about it in magazines.

"And then I came over and watched Kenny Brack win (in 1999). It just opened my eyes to the magnitude of the event and how much I wanted to be here."

Despite the performance of the 26-year-old from Emberton, England, Patrick (who started fourth) was the story before, during and after the race.

Her runs during qualifying and practice had indicated she had the car and talent to win. She backed it up Sunday, becoming the first woman to lead the 500 on Lap 57. She led three times for a total of 19 laps, but stalled her engine in the pits on Lap 79 and fell back to 16th.

Patrick worked her way back up to eighth, then made a rookie mistake: She spun under caution on Lap 155 and smacked into fellow rookie Tomas Enge, destroying her front wing and bringing out the yellow flag.

Patrick ducked her Panoz-Honda into the pits for a new wing and stayed on the lead lap. She came in again four laps later, still under caution, and took on a full tank of fuel. She came out of the pits in 11th place.

But when the leaders pitted on Lap 172, Patrick stayed out, giving her the lead again. Patrick's team owner, Bobby Rahal, gambled his driver had enough fuel to finish. And she did -- but only by the slightest margin.

Wheldon, in a Dallara-Honda, passed Patrick on Lap 186 before the caution flag came out again. When racing resumed on Lap 190, Patrick zipped past Wheldon.

"Wow, what a day for me," Patrick said. "A stall in the pits and a spin and then I was leading the race at the end. We really had to dial back the fuel just to make it to the end. So I was just trying to hang on as long as possible."

She couldn't hold off Wheldon with seven laps left, not with a car that was running on fumes.

"Unfortunately, you're a sitting duck when you start restarts in the lead here," Wheldon said of Patrick's pass with 10 to go. "I knew I could pass her, but it was just a matter of timing. And having done it once, she was obviously aware of where I was good and where I was not. So she made it a little bit more difficult."

The heartbreak continued at Indianapolis Motor Speedway for Penske driver Sam Hornish Jr. The 2001 and 2002 IRL series champion led the most laps (77) but crashed out of the race on Lap 147. Hornish was uninjured.

Bruno Junqueira, another early challenger, was sixth when he got tangled with a lapped car on Lap 78. Junqueira sustained a concussion and two back fractures, which will require surgery.

Asked afterward if her performance had proven a point for women, Patrick said: "I made a hell of a point for anybody, are you kidding me? I came from the back twice. It was frustrating to be leading the race with so few laps remaining and not be able to finish hard and just hang out up front and win the thing. But I also knew something had to give."

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Congrats to Danica, a really amazing drive. I never thought Id root for a woman.

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/...nica_31487.jpg

As the Beatles say "Baby you can drive my car"

I should have named the thread Brit wins Indy 500 for the first time in 40 years. Maybe someone would have replied. Again if not for running low on gas and have to turn down the power she probably would have won. This is big news. Indy is dying and she brings new interest to the race and the series. Its a shame Indy split from CART.

In the words of Eric Cartman...

"Get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and bake me a pie!"

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Originally Posted by Beirut

In the words of Eric Cartman...

"Get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and bake me a pie!"

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Yes, great idea Beirut...I would have thought you'd have liked your women in another room ~;)

Wahow! She's a babe! Shwiing!

I was rooting for her, too.

I think I'm more heartened by the fact that so many people were rooting for her.

What other sports do you think we'll start to see women competing with the men in? We've seen golf, but Sorenstam couldn't make the cut. Manon Rheaume in Hockey as a goalie, but she only made the minor leagues. Maybe a placekicker in Football?

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Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules

What other sports do you think we'll start to see women competing with the men in? We've seen golf, but Sorenstam couldn't make the cut. Manon Rheaume in Hockey as a goalie, but she only made the minor leagues. Maybe a placekicker in Football?

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Not Chess! Like Karparow said: Rather would a computer be world champion than a woman. ~:)

I've got no money and it's breaking my heart
but I've found a driver and that's a start ~:cool:

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

Not Chess!

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too late.. DAMN YOU POLGAR!!!!!

couldn't care less about cars driving around in a circle. what other sports will we see women and men competing? hmm.. barring some serious chemical/genetic engineering, it'd have to be something that does not require a substantial amount of strength. so, in american football we might see a pro female place kicker, but probably not a defensive tackle. hockey goalie? sure. hmm.. what else?

its not nearly as important as that formula one driver that was mediocre in formula one and went to indy and won every race....
yeah indy is crap, and any orangtang can win...
thanks,
dizzy

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it'd have to be something that does not require a substantial amount of strength. so, in american football we might see a pro female place kicker

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Your kidding right? Do you realize how much leg strength it takes to kick a football 60 or 70 yards? Most NFL place kickers start out as soccer players.

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its not nearly as important as that formula one driver that was mediocre in formula one and went to indy and won every race....

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Who would that be? Many a F-1 driver went to indy and lost. Also indy drivers have gone to F-1 and won. It has gone downhill though since it split from CART.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Your kidding right? Do you realize how much leg strength it takes to kick a football 60 or 70 yards?

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it doesn't take a great deal of strength to kick a ball 40 yards, which is about how far a field goal attempt would be. sure, kick-offs may require more strength, but how many place kickers in the nfl are muscular beasts like the linebackers, runningbacks, etc.? the vast majority of women athletes would not be able to participate in college level football (not to mention pro) on the offense or defense. they'd lack the power/speed/size/muscle to play.

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Most NFL place kickers start out as soccer players.

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how many female soccer players could play in the div-I men's soccer? pro leagues? if the game were simply about kicking stationary balls, there might be some.. but even then the average man will be able to outkick the average woman. however, soccer requires a lot of strength anyway (shoulder charges, etc), so women would be at a drastic disadvantage.

i don't doubt that there may be a handful of exceptions, from time to to time, i'm talking about your average athlete.

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it doesn't take a great deal of strength to kick a ball 40 yards, which is about how far a field goal attempt would be. sure, kick-offs may require more strength,

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Your total lack of knowledge as far as american football goes is showing. A person who can only kick the ball 40 yards would have to reach their opponents 23 yard line to even have a shot. A fieldgoal from the 23 is a chip shot for any NFL kicker. The ball must be kicked from 7 yards behind the line of scrimage and then you have to add the ten yards of the endzone. Kickers have kicked field goals from their opponnents territory. A person who can only do so from 40 yards would be lucky to make a high school team. Kickers may not be muscle bound but I bet they have some of the strongest legs in sports and no woman is going to come close.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Your total lack of knowledge as far as american football goes is showing.

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yawn.. haha, ok boss. anyway i meant to say 'from the 40 yard line'.

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Kickers have kicked field goals from their opponnents territory.

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you don't say? i think most FGs are made in the opponents territory.. except dempsey's and elam's 63-yarders.. don't know the ncaa records.

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Kickers may not be muscle bound but I bet they have some of the strongest legs in sports and no woman is going to come close.

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maybe not.. but certainly a woman could be a short-range place kicker (PATs and short FGs) in the nfl. roster considerations would probably prevent that, however.

"Close only counts in horse-shoes and hand-grenades," I rest my case. ~;)

to bad she was running out of fuel, or else she could have won

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maybe not.. but certainly a woman could be a short-range place kicker (PATs and short FGs) in the nfl. roster considerations would probably prevent that, however.

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Well I see you do know a bit ~:) Yup they cant afford to carry a placekicker just for short yardage. Besides if the other kickers good at long range do you think he would be worse when he is closer?

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yawn.. haha, ok boss. anyway i meant to say 'from the 40 yard line'.

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Now its not my fault you mis spoke . I doubt there are many if any women who could kick a FG from there. There was a big stink a few months ago about a girl who tried to make it as a place kicker for some college team. Of course it wound up in a sex scandal. She couldnt do the job and was just there because of PC. Believe me if there were a girl that could kick the ball better than their kicker any NFL team would grab her in a heart beat. Plus how many times have you seen the wimp of a kicker as you call him make the saving tackle to prevent a TD return on a kick off? She wouldnt last 2 weeks.

hahahaha, big words from sexist boy up here, ive seen chicks beat the shit out guys regulary, i know a chick soccer player who is just as good as any of the guys she plays with, trust me i know chicks that if taught how to kick, they would kick the best field goals in the world, they have enough muscle to kick world records.
don't be so hasty at saying the chick was crap, footy players always get in trouble for reasons, because they're unsophisticated simple minded idiots, you see it in the rugby league here in australia, you don't see it in the union though....
thanks,
dizzy

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

There was a big stink a few months ago about a girl who tried to make it as a place kicker for some college team. Of course it wound up in a sex scandal. She couldnt do the job and was just there because of PC.

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you're talking about katie hnida. she claims she was raped at u. colorado.. which, considering the school's program, is probably more likely than not. she transferred to new mexico and kicked some PATs, iirc. it was more PR than PC, though, she was a local heroine in high school (in colorado). plus gary barnett probably thought a hot girl on his team would distract people from his foibles lol.

hnida
http://mirrorimageorigin.collegepubl...s/9739o8q8.jpg

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Plus how many times have you seen the wimp of a kicker as you call him make the saving tackle to prevent a TD return on a kick off? She wouldnt last 2 weeks.

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lol, when did i ever call kickers wimps? but, if i had to, i'd much rather call a kicker or punter a wimp to his face than a nose tackle, know what i mean?

oh btw, i personally think cyclists, soccer players and speed skaters have stronger legs than kickers. though, who knows?

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Originally Posted by dessa14

hahahaha, big words from sexist boy up here, ive seen chicks beat the shit out guys regulary, i know a chick soccer player who is just as good as any of the guys she plays with, trust me i know chicks that if taught how to kick, they would kick the best field goals in the world, they have enough muscle to kick world records.
don't be so hasty at saying the chick was crap, footy players always get in trouble for reasons, because they're unsophisticated simple minded idiots, you see it in the rugby league here in australia, you don't see it in the union though....
thanks,
dizzy

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"chicks" huh.. lol. anyway, i've heard that the bone/muscle structure of the male pelvis vs the female pelvis tends to allow men to run faster and kick harder than women. just what i've heard. btw, i'd like to see your friend enter a pro soccer league. i'm thinking bundesliga, the premiership, serie a... let me know when she's in there. wish her luck for me.

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lol, when did i ever call kickers wimps?

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You didnt. You infered it ~;)

well she plays as good as my other friend who is on a premierleague teams shortlist for young foriegn players.
thanks,
dizzy

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well she plays as good as my other friend who is on a premierleague teams shortlist for young foriegn players.

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When it comes to the upper levels of almost any sport women just cant compete. Almost is not good enough. You have to be the best and the best at sports are men. Its biological.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

When it comes to the upper levels of almost any sport women just cant compete. Almost is not good enough. You have to be the best and the best at sports are men. Its biological.

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Gawain,

did you ever do floor exercises ~D

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Originally Posted by dessa14

well she plays as good as my other friend who is on a premierleague teams shortlist for young foriegn players.
thanks,
dizzy

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I'm finding this difficult to beleive. When Perugia wanted to sign two women for it's team, they said no. One of the reasons was they did not beleive they could play at that level so what was the point. These were two world class women in soccer.

well the keyword was believe....
plus have you ever watched women basketball, alot of those players are just as good as guys, maybe not as flairy but just as good technically.
thanks,
dizzy

Back to racing (which is not a sport). A woman can compete in an open wheel car...but at this point the good ole boys wouldn't let a woman win a race on the driving billboard circuit.

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Back to racing (which is not a sport)

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Your daft. You wouldnt last 30 minutes in a real race car. Racing is one of the most skilled and mentally as well as phyiscaly demanding sports there is. Not only thats its the most popular proffesional sport in the world.

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..but at this point the good ole boys wouldn't let a woman win a race on the driving billboard circuit.

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You mean F-1? THey sure would if the found one good enough. F-1 is a buissiness and a very hi profile one. Winning is the only consideration. If you were a monkey and could drive faster than everyone theyd hire you.

Do you know they had to outlaw midgets playing baseball?

I'm not sure I'm willing to classify it as a pure sport, but I wouldn't doubt the physical/mental demands of it. Any top level competition puts huge stresses on the competitors, and to say that it doesn't because they have an engine moving them around is stupid logic.

its not exactly the same as other sports though, in other sports, the equipment is kinda second to person using it, whereas in motor racing the equipment is just as important.
thanks,
dizzy

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lol, when did i ever call kickers wimps?

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Allow me to. NFL kickers are wimps, all they do is kick the ball. A modern rugby player (especially a fly-half or full-back) can kick the ball equally as well as an NFL kicker while under pressure from the opposing team, as well as being able to make aggressive tackles wearing no armour or helmets.

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A modern rugby player (especially a fly-half or full-back) can kick the ball equally as well as an NFL kicker while under pressure from the opposing team, as well as being able to make aggressive tackles wearing no armour or helmets.

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If that were true he would either be playing in the NFL or hes a moron.

You would only be surprised/excited that a woman almost won the indy 500 if you are a sexist. ~:eek: Otherwise it should seem perfectly normal. Mabye a chauvanist, though.

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You would only be surprised/excited that a woman almost won the indy 500 if you are a sexist. Otherwise it should seem perfectly normal. Mabye a chauvanist, though.

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Excuse me? Simce no woman has ever won a major auto race in the entire history of auto racing anywhere I would think it would suprise most people. If I were a sexist I wouldnt have been rooting for her now would I? And this is in the sport I love the most and am the best at. Ive got more trophies than you can shake a stick at. Starting with slotcars then go karts and motor cycles and more cars than I can count.
PS Ive never been beatin by a woman on the race course ~:)

Sheesh! I was just trolling.... :bow:

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If that were true he would either be playing in the NFL or hes a moron.

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American football isn't popular outside... oh America.

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Originally Posted by Al Khalifah

American football isn't popular outside... oh America.

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Very true, very true. It is really a stupid sport. They wear more armour than anyone else, and still get the most injuries!

It's so slow. I actually tried to watch a game once and fell asleep because it was so boring. I woke up 3 hours later... and it was STILL going on.
The play is so stop start, its like watching chess.

More like watching an argument over wheter or not a chess game is being played legally. Also, way too many rules!

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Very true, very true. It is really a stupid sport. They wear more armour than anyone else, and still get the most injuries!

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They get hurt because their wearing your so called armor. It makes them feel invincible. You wouldnt do half the stuff they do without a helmet and padding or youd be dead. You clearly have no knowledge of the intracacies of the sport.
You should find a fim of some 50s or 60s fooball or even earlier. Then tell me about it. Theve had to wimp it out a bit I guess because the players keep getting bigger and stronger and if they used the old rules people would be either be permenatly injured or dead. Id like to see one of you get creamed by a 320 lb defensive tackle or go up for a pass and get blindsided by a 240 linebaker on one side and a saftey from the other and tell me how much the armor helped you as they carry you off the field . I doubt most of you could get off the line of scrimage.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Id like to see one of you get creamed by a 320 lb defensive tackle or go up for a pass and get blindsided by a 240 linebaker on one side and a saftey from the other and tell me how much the armor helped you as they carry you off the field . I doubt most of you could get off the line of scrimage.

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Well, it really wouldn't be fair to put me up against professional football players, no would it? considering that I am not a professional football player.

You say that they wouldn't do half of what they do without the armour, so wouldn't it be better to take away the armour and make the sport safer?

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They get hurt because their wearing your so called armor. It makes them feel invincible. You wouldnt do half the stuff they do without a helmet and padding or youd be dead. You clearly have no knowledge of the intracacies of the sport.

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Have you ever actually watched a rugby union match? Imagine an American football game that essentially does not stop until the ball leaves the field, points are scored or a foul is comitted. You have continous and extremely physical play because you cannot pass the ball forward with your hands which means the only way through is to charge into your opponents line.
Oh and they wear no armour or helmets.

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Originally Posted by Al Khalifah

Have you ever actually watched a rugby union match? Imagine an American football game that essentially does not stop until the ball leaves the field, points are scored or a foul is comitted. You have continous and extremely physical play because you cannot pass the ball forward with your hands which means the only way through is to charge into your opponents line.
Oh and they wear no armour or helmets.

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Sounds a lot more interesting. My main objection is the constant whistle blowing in American football, there is never any prolonged action, which gets boring.

i've watched so many sports i can't even count. i've seen several rugby and australian rules football matches. it just comes down to familiarity and personal taste. some people like fast paced games that don't have a sizeable deal of strategy involved. basketball is great for that. the chess analogy was actually fairly accurate, professional american football especially is about setting up strategies, just like chess. the difference comes when play starts and guys try to enforce their strategy over the opponent's.

if a person doesn't understand the rules of a game, it not going to be very interesting to watch. i think that is more pronounced for more complex games. once i bothered to look up the rules on the rugby, etc. games i was watching, they certainly became more interesting, but not nearly as interesting as american football to me, partially because i grew up watching that.. it's familiar.

as far as kickers.. the balls used by the different sports are not the same, so a comparison is tricky.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

If that were true he would either be playing in the NFL or hes a moron.

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What are the average pay rates in the NFL? Say in the top flight.

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Originally Posted by Prince Laridus Konivaich

Very true, very true. It is really a stupid sport. They wear more armour than anyone else, and still get the most injuries!

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So they wear armour. So what? I would too if I was going to risk getting hit how they were. I don't get hit like that because I play soccer, but I wear shin pads because I get hit on the shins. They probably don't wear shin pads. If you are going to take hits that can cause serious injuries on you, then it is stupid NOT to wear armour if you can.

I really doubt rugby union (and yes I have seen it) compares to the force of the hits these guys take. If it did you would see far mroe injuries.

I would say that the force used in related to the padding available. You won't bash into the other guy as hard if you aren't wearing amour. :bow:

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What are the average pay rates in the NFL? Say in the top flight.

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I think this may surprise you.

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Median salaries

Punters and kickers have the highest median NFL salaries .

Median salaries by position.

Punter/Kicker $631,040
Defensive end $600,958
Quarterback $593,667
Offensive line $589,133
Cornerback $563,200
Defensive tackle $513,880
Linebacker $513,360
Wide receiver $512,000
Safety $501,580
Running back $479,241
Tight end $477,280

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Top kickers make over a million dollars a year. Does rugby pay this well even for its top stars?

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I would say that the force used in related to the padding available. You won't bash into the other guy as hard if you aren't wearing amour.

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Exactly and thats what makes american football exciting. We want brutal hits and fast action. American football is more like a war with the field being the battle ground. While those breaks bore you we americans are trying to guess what play will be run next . The strategy part is as enthraling as the action to most of us fans. Like I said its like war long moments of inaction suddenly broken by intense action. You say our football is slow but in reality while the balls in play its very fast and very violent. I played soccer all four years in highschool and football my whole life. Believe me even two hand touch football that we play in the street is more violent than soccer. The only sport I can think of that is faster and more violent than football is ice hockey. Would you like them to take off the armor also? Throw in lacrosse also for good measure. Im leaving out all fighing as sports here.

Rugby players are tough bastards though, just to even be out there. They have a Caribbean Rugby Championship here every year with every Caribbean Country (Plus UK and US) Competeing, you see more broken teeth and bones in an hour than you see in a whole year of American Football. Rugby doesn't require a whole lot of strategy though, just a lot of guts, and a good throwing arm, and kicking strength.

American Football is probably one of the most Strategy/Tactically intense sports out there which might be the biggest draw. Sure, having muscle bound athletes that rise above the rest is certainly important, but good coaching/Planning/and Organization are as equally important. I watched a Football Game in Pittsburg and it was the Browns vs. Steelers, and the Browns suck hard, have no good organization, but actually managed to take down a team that spent almost twice as much or better a year on good players, just based on tricking, and outsmarting them...that was the only win they had all year... but I don't care, not much of a Football fan anyway.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

I think this may surprise you.

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Not really, I would be extremely suprised if what is essentially a nothing sport (rugby) in terms of following/audience/money offered higher wages than a decent sized sport.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Top kickers make over a million dollars a year. Does rugby pay this well even for its top stars?

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I would guess (and I don't have data sorry) that it's top stars might, but average pay would be nowhere near that I would guess. European soccer players would easily contest those figures, but that is not what we are discussing.

Exactly and thats what makes american football exciting. We want brutal hits and fast action. American football is more like a war with the field being the battle ground. While those breaks bore you we americans are trying to guess what play will be run next . The strategy part is as enthraling as the action to most of us fans. Like I said its like war long moments of inaction suddenly broken by intense action.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

You say our football is slow but in reality while the balls in play its very fast and very violent.

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I say nothing of the sort, or are you responding to someone else. If so then apologies. I personally think the whole this sport is better than this idea is stupid. Fundamentally they are all entertainment, and different people like different things, and all power to the consumer etc.

rugby players don't play purely for cash like american frootball players do, they play for the pride of their state or nation, yes they get paid a fair bit, but in australia we don't just throw money at our sports stars like you yankees do, the poms still throw money at their soccer stars (who i might say are absolutely brilliant, look at the way they curve some of those balls) sports players should be playing for the love of the game not for the cash that goes with it.
and so what being paid lots of money doesn't mean american frootball players are better then rugby players, actually quite the opposite, in rugby union, there is alot of immediate thinking for all the players, plays are instantaneous not thought out over a ten second break and you have to be clever as well as tough to play rugby.
thanks,
dizzy

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European soccer players would easily contest those figures

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Average premier league player will make around £20,000 a week. That is over £1,000,000 a year. Since a pound is worth around 1.75 dollars, they are easily contesting.
Average starting players for Champions League sides will make around £50,000 a week. That is over £2,500,000 a year.

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rugby players don't play purely for cash like american frootball players do, they play for the pride of their state or nation, yes they get paid a fair bit, but in australia we don't just throw money at our sports stars like you yankees do

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American football used to be that way and still is until you get to the NFL. Its free agency thats changed things.

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Average premier league player will make around £20,000 a week. That is over £1,000,000 a year. Since a pound is worth around 1.75 dollars, they are easily contesting.

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Best paid soccer player in the world David Beckham

$28 mil

Best paid NFL player Peyton Manning

$42 mil

The best paid kicker in the NFL makes a mere 8 million a year. If a rugby player can kick the ball as good as or better than him I again maintain that would make him a fool to play rugby over the NFL. Can any of you imagine a woman playing rugby?

Gosh, a sport like a war, with the pitch being a battleground?
All you need to do is add some oil into the mix, and you've got your foreign policy.

Anyway, I thought this thread was about women?