'Featureless' Expansion

The expansion is so featureless, I don't know how to get myself excited over it. They have not mentioned a 'single' feature worth the excitement of a new product.

For some 'night battles' may be the key, for me its just gloss. It would be a nice addition but I can live without the night battles. There is no word on something truly special, like in VI they redid the whole reinforcement system (though it only worked after the patch).

There are no campaign replays, no added diplomacy options, wishy-washy response by Shogun to AI improvements, no announcement as to the Save/Load Issue yet, no additional modability options, nothing nada.... BTW, after reading Shoguns latest FAQ, the settlement moving by Barbarians is also not a true feature. Settlements are fixed, the Barbarian factions can simply survive even if they didn't have a settlement left, just like the human player now in RTW.

So tell me, why should I be excited or look forward to another mod for which I have to dish out additional money?!!

Mods have done nearly as much, which is a lot more considering they do not have the source code. I know CA can do better, its just that their imagination or will to improve this game in a real way is somewhat lacking.

PLEASE CA, take more time with the expansion, but give a true expansion with REAL features, not recycled stuff (night battles, Mongol invasion inspired Barbarion Invasion).

theres night battles in rtw 1.2. custom battle advanced options

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Originally Posted by sik1977

The expansion is so featureless, I don't know how to get myself excited over it. They have not mentioned a 'single' feature worth the excitement of a new product.

For some 'night battles' may be the key, for me its just gloss. It would be a nice addition but I can live without the night battles. There is no word on something truly special, like in VI they redid the whole reinforcement system (though it only worked after the patch).

There are no campaign replays, no added diplomacy options, wishy-washy response by Shogun to AI improvements, no announcement as to the Save/Load Issue yet, no additional modability options, nothing nada.... BTW, after reading Shoguns latest FAQ, the settlement moving by Barbarians is also not a true feature. Settlements are fixed, the Barbarian factions can simply survive even if they didn't have a settlement left, just like the human player now in RTW.

So tell me, why should I be excited or look forward to another mod for which I have to dish out additional money?!!

Mods have done nearly as much, which is a lot more considering they do not have the source code. I know CA can do better, its just that their imagination or will to improve this game in a real way is somewhat lacking.

PLEASE CA, take more time with the expansion, but give a true expansion with REAL features, not recycled stuff (night battles, Mongol invasion inspired Barbarion Invasion).

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no they can;t. without a settlement/ capitol you're lost.

It seems CA got a taste of the big bucks with RTW, and it was all thanks to the eye candy. Anyone that saw a screenshot of it, no matter what their game preference, is likely to contemplate purchasing it. Night battles, swimming, a few new skins; it's enough to get them at least a quarter of what RTW brought in. Face it, they're now solely cash orientated, and so it seems the upcoming regurgitation is going be just that: cash orientated. Hope for its sales resting hugely on RTW's success. Minimum effort, maximum profit. :party3:

Even though it seems featureless, it is bound to be really good. Since there is no senate in the XP's era (dev confirmed) it will open many good things for mods. Also the new campaign itself sounds really fun. With the new victory conditions, it's something that cannot be done yet without modding and will be a very fun change of things.

Well i have to agree this is getting me mad the more i learn about the ex,pak it just seems like there throwing in abunch of new useless features like swimming horses and night battles(which a mod has already done FYI)I'll probubly still buy it if the mods start moving over to it plus the factions look interesting.

I agree with you man, the expansion are so featureless like you said. I guess since they have a taste of what rtw brought now they are hungry for more, they could just make that as a patch and published it since there are only a few change that compare to our mod that submitted by rtr and other they are close to it. There is no point really to get the expansion if they just did a little modification over the skin and some new unit which can be done easily with a skilled modder. So unless they published another game that are better than rtw which i think is unlikely to be I see there is no need to get the new xpan. ~:handball:

My hopes are that the at least can get in a feature, like I've heard of in MTW, that causes civil wars, and also balances civilizations (we need that).

I have learned from CA's previous efforts. This time round i'll definately be waiting a good few months to guage the the general consensus on the expac before even considering purchasing it. Let's face it, Shogun was , as ever playing his usual games. Answering in detail questions about the minor asthetics (eye candy) and non improving features, then hedging and baulking when it came to the tweaks that would really make the exppac an exppac and not just a $$$ making exercise for CA.

Why spend your hard earned $$$ on this thing when you can play the mods for free!
Perhaps i'm jumping the gun a little, maybe they will surprise us. Maybe......

i was hoping for defeated factions to be able to return like in mtw.

If you dismiss the new features and then ask “Where are the new features?”, the answer will always be “There are none”. You still may not think the expansion is worth buying but as Total War expansions go, Rome’s may be the most feature rich yet.

What did Mongol Invasion add to Shogun?

What did Viking Invasion add to Medieval?

Neither of these made any sweeping changes to game play. They were about new factions for the most part.

This is an expansion to Rome, not Rome II.

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Originally Posted by Nelson

What did Viking Invasion add to Medieval?

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The improved reinforcement system? That's certainly why I got it. I didn't care about the new campaign in the least (and, in general, enjoyed it nowhere near as much as the Medieval campaign).

Having the expansion add a new campaign is nice and all, but my decision to get it or not will likely be on what improvements it makes to the game as a whole. So far, I haven't been impressed.

Bh

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Originally Posted by Nelson

If you dismiss the new features and then ask “Where are the new features?”, the answer will always be “There are none”. You still may not think the expansion is worth buying but as Total War expansions go, Rome’s may be the most feature rich yet.

What did Mongol Invasion add to Shogun?

What did Viking Invasion add to Medieval?

Neither of these made any sweeping changes to game play. They were about new factions for the most part.

This is an expansion to Rome, not Rome II.

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Nelson, I wonder if you actually played both those expansions.

MI brought in the Mongols which were not dependant on provinces etc, and had a totally different strategy. This is what we will be seeing recycled in the BI as Huns it seems. MI, also added a lot of things to the main campaign. Such as old eliminated factions returning, and many features which came to MTW later on but were intriduced in MI and were not in STW.

MTW: VI brought in the reinforcements. That feature alone was worth the expansion and as Bhuric said, i got that expansion just for that feature, as it not only added to the expansion, but more so to the original main campaign. There were other nice touches as well and balances and improvement in AI, specially AI navies which finally started attempting creating trade routes and not just gather in one water square for a big party.

I can go on and on. I have played all of them, and many times over. I like RTW, but was hoping that like before the expansion would add something new and truly exciting, or at least a much wanted feature like campaign replays and a detailed campaign statistics screen, which has been missing in all TW games.

"BUT TEH HORSE WILL BE SWIMIN11!!!!1!!1!!111!!11!1!"

J/k

The xpac does look rather dull...i wish they would focus more on gameplay then eye candy.

There could be more, we haven't heard anything yet. I wouldn't expect to see "bugs/AI fixed""Save/load problem resolved "campaign battle replays" in an MTV style commercial.

It's also not a mod. And it's also not a new game. It's an add-on pack. Many of these are just extra weapons, items, levels,missions etc. Some have new "features", but this is certainly not an absolute requirement. Heck, when you buy extra packs or figures for table-top gaming, you're not getting extra "features", but it makes it fun. I love having new choices or continuing the story a little bit more. I would not be disappointed if I only had new things to play with or new places to play on and not new ways to play as well.

Don't buy it then. Buy a brand new game. I think it might be fun. Wait and see. It's not like MI and VI were sold on the bug-fixes/menu tweaks. You found out after you installed it. Right now the mags just want to tell you about the expansion itself, not the game patch that comes with it.

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Originally Posted by mongoose

"BUT TEH HORSE WILL BE SWIMIN11!!!!1!!1!!111!!11!1!"

J/k

The xpac does look rather dull...i wish they would focus more on gameplay then eye candy.

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I hate to tell you but you brought up an addition to the gameplay right there; the ability to ford rivers. Actually, I've heard more things about gameplay additions in the xpac than I've heard about "eye candy." The only feature so far that I would call eye candy are the night batles.

Eye candy is great. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the way RTW looks. In fact, it still fills me with a sense of "being there" when I zoom in for a close up and watch my Roman front line advance upon the enemy.
Marcus, I would hope we all(most of us) know the definition of an expansion pack. What folks I think are/were hoping for is a fix to some of the still blatantly evident bugs that were not addressed in patch 1.2, and also some recognition of this by Shogun in This Interview

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Don't buy it then.

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Thanks for pointing out our choices. Never heard that one before. :dizzy2:
I guess I should just give up on the bug fix issue. There are a few "unofficial" patches out there that address the current problems with RTW that work quite well, also, a shitload of mods that hold enough extra content to not have to worry about the exp pack.
Eventually the pull of the exp pack will be to strong and I will give in to temptation, but until that day............well, i'm gonna go down :duel:

YOU should not blame CA for it. but the companies that suport them. previously it was Activision. now it's Sega. You can blame CA for bugs. but maybe those bugs could have been detected when they had more time.

CA doesn't get to decide what they put in their own expansion pack ?

BTW I think it we would be better if we waited until it was released before we comment on its lack of features. But right now, the Xpack really doesn't appeal to me.

To be honest from exspansion packs i allways exspect exactly what they are; exspansions to the game. Dont expext a new game fokes expet the game to be tweaked and bits added. The only ever remarcable exspansion i can think of is civ3 conquests. So to be honest dont expect this to compleatly change ure veiw of RTW allready if you hate it, its just the same content basicly exept re skined. However why will i look forawd to it? Because you get to bring down Rome !

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Originally Posted by The_678

Since there is no senate in the XP's era (dev confirmed) it will open many good things for mods.

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That's precisely what i was thinking. No one else seems to realise that because there'll be no more senate, it'll open up hundreds of modding possibilites.

If RTW expansion has the same price than VI (more or less) I think is a bit expensive.

BTW I am very upset with the postsale support offered, I don't care who the guilty is, sure costumers not. So I don't have any good reason to buy the expansion despite I still play a lot the game.

we live in a world were money is almost if not EVERYTHING, if they won't go for the moneymaking style, they'll be bankrupt in a month

I have played both TW expansions. A lot.

I enjoyed the new features in each of them although IMO none of them represented an especially dramatic departure from the game play of its predecessor. The Mongols don’t build troops and that was the big difference from other factions. A new map and new factions in VI were excellent but the other changes were minor. The reinforcement tweak was nice but was hardly a sea change in game mechanics.

Night battles and river crossings sound like significant tactical additions to me but deciding what are major and minor features is a very subjective undertaking. One man’s delicacy is another’s gruel. The migrating barbarians in BI could be very interesting and different. I’m not sure we know what all the next expansion will include.

Very true Nelson, I think it is a sad reflection of society in general these days that people just love to moan about how bad things are. As you pointed out, it is an expansion and not a new game. All the negative comments really are unfounded until there is proof that the expansion is rubbish. Personally, I cannot help but laugh because all these whingers will buy it as soon as it hits the shelves

......Orda

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Originally Posted by Orda Khan

As you pointed out, it is an expansion and not a new game.

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That's a rather silly comment. If it was a new game, why would we be expecting it to have any impact on the original game? RTW didn't affect MTW, MTW didn't affect STW. So anyone who is commenting about the effect a RTW expansion will have on the base RTW campaign obviously isn't expecting a new game. Suggesting otherwise is just plain foolish.

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All the negative comments really are unfounded until there is proof that the expansion is rubbish. Personally, I cannot help but laugh because all these whingers will buy it as soon as it hits the shelves

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How many people have said anything about the expansion being rubbish? That seems to be wishful thinking on your part. What people have said is that the announced feature list doesn't sound terribly impressive. Does that mean the expansion won't be any good? Who knows. When it comes out, everyone can evaluate it at that point.

As for laughing, if that makes you feel better, by all means, laugh away. However, your comment is perhaps the only unsubstantiated comment this thread has truly had.

Bh

I just don't see the point...why not just buy a new game for the same amount of money?


I hate all xpacs

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Originally Posted by Bhruic

That's a rather silly comment. If it was a new game, why would we be expecting it to have any impact on the original game? RTW didn't affect MTW, MTW didn't affect STW. So anyone who is commenting about the effect a RTW expansion will have on the base RTW campaign obviously isn't expecting a new game. Suggesting otherwise is just plain foolish.



How many people have said anything about the expansion being rubbish? That seems to be wishful thinking on your part. What people have said is that the announced feature list doesn't sound terribly impressive. Does that mean the expansion won't be any good? Who knows. When it comes out, everyone can evaluate it at that point.

As for laughing, if that makes you feel better, by all means, laugh away. However, your comment is perhaps the only unsubstantiated comment this thread has truly had.

Bh

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I guess the 'Featureless Expansion' thread title and the negative replies using the 'wonderful' VI as comparison just passed you by then. As for laughing...Yes I am LMAO. 'Featureless'......How is this 'substantiated'? I stand by what I said, since there has been any amount of moaning about BI and what it is not

......Orda

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Originally Posted by Orda Khan

I guess the 'Featureless Expansion' thread title and the negative replies using the 'wonderful' VI as comparison just passed you by then. As for laughing...Yes I am LMAO. 'Featureless'......How is this 'substantiated'? I stand by what I said, since there has been any amount of moaning about BI and what it is not

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I saw the title. I saw the replies talking about VI. I'm not sure what your point is regarding them. Certainly, suggesting that the expansion is completely lacking features in the literal sense would be silly. But the explanation in the first post makes it clear that's not the intention. 'Featureless' is meant to indicate ... Well, the first post makes it clear:

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They have not mentioned a 'single' feature worth the excitement of a new product.

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That seems like an entirely substantiated post, if a completely subjective one. By contrast, VI added at least one feature that was worth a great deal of excitement. I can't comment on STW, as I never got the expansion for it.

They say laughter is good for the soul, so laugh away. I, personally, am in agreement with the original post, in that I don't find anything (again, anything announced) about the expansion terribly interesting. If it sounds great to you, well, that's good. Not only can you laugh, but you can look forward to a good expansion. Me, I'll wait to see what the general reaction is after it's released.

Bh

I would love to buy an expansion if it actually did anything at all that I think is very interesting. From what has been publicly stated about this one, I have seen absolutely no reason to pay a dime for this one. I'm not a Mr. Negative about it - I've not bought one game since I bought RTW last year, I've been so obsessed with it. But I've seen nothing that modders can't do that interests me in their public releases of it so far. ~:handball:

I'm another one who's found nothing overly exciting in this. What I'd *really* like is a massive leap in AI, which would make the original game a lot more interesting (I haven't played in ages, a little part of me still hopes the x-pack will make the game what, IMO, it should have been).

I'm going to wait until the x-pack's released, and see what those who do get it are saying after a couple of months. If the AI and original game aren't *seriously* improved, I will not be buying BI.

The vast majority are saying the same thing and I pointed out that I found this quite humourous. I did not blurt out a flippant remark to the negative response that BI has received, I posted my reply because all these posts have been seen before. I find it humourous because the same was said of VI........" I will wait to see what other's think before I buy it "
What has transpired is that most of the community now regard VI as a benchmark.
If we are talking purely real time gameplay, I think I would have to say that MTW v1.0 was my favourite. The v1.1 patch messed up spear units totally and no patch nor the VI expansion fixed them, to the detriment of the game IMO.
I have read countless negative responses to BI and how nothing is going to change. Maybe they are right but only the release of the Expansion and subsequent tests will prove this. I have not been overly impressed with RTW but there are some details that I like very much. I hope that some of the issues will be addressed with BI but there is also a chance that I will be disappointed. I will be buying BI and I am willing to bet that the vast majority, even the negative posters, will be doing likewise....as they have done in the past

......Orda

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Originally Posted by Orda Khan

I have read countless negative responses to BI and how nothing is going to change. Maybe they are right but only the release of the Expansion and subsequent tests will prove this.

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It's not going to be me doing the testing. Some of the key programmers who developed the previous game engine no longer work for CA. I doubt that sufficient skill to significantly improve the gameplay exists within CA at this point, and we know that they don't have the resources to do the kind of gameplay testing that such a complicated game requires. At the same time, CA will want to end-of-life RTW/BI quickly.

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Originally Posted by Orda Khan

I find it humourous because the same was said of VI........" I will wait to see what other's think before I buy it "
What has transpired is that most of the community now regard VI as a benchmark.

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And you don't think that had anything to do with the fact that the VI expansion turned out to be good, and made some changes that the fans really approved of? I'm not sure why you consider the point "most of the community now regard VI as a benchmark" contradicts the "I will wait to see what other's think before I buy it" point. I can't say what happened, because I didn't see sales statistics. But it's entirely possible people did wait to see what other's thought, and the other's thought good things. Therefore, they decided to get it.

If a lot of people are reporting in here about positive improvements to RTW from BI, I will most likely get it myself. What I won't do, however, is go get it simply because it's a TW expansion. Nor will I go get it based on my respect for CA. At this point, I'd need some assurances that they've delivered a quality product before I'd be willing to make that jump.

Bh

It has nothing to do with contradiction at all. I was simply pointing out that the very thing that people expected to be poor was the opposite and the same thing could happen with BI

......Orda

In the discussion about the new units above, has there been anything to make us think that the unit limits will be lifted? If I say "EB has 250 new units!" or "500 new units!" it doesn't mean we've added 250 or 500 to the vanilla number. If they are dropping some factions in place of other new ones, the "10 new factions!" thing works the same way. Maybe I'm wrong, but if they are just swapping factions or units, then what's the great new achievement? I'll be impressed and would probably buy it if they genuinely increased the faction and unit limits now...

horse swimming pig eating, night battels afternoon shmatels - i want a better map AI , more options for diplomacy etc , this is a strategic game , dam ! :furious3:

I agree with Orda

Lets not be hasty and say stuff that will make us look like MrNeverHappy whiners. I like Orda remember the angry posts of old, I remember writing one slamming MTW for being STW with more units and not as good. Now people talk of MTW being the benchmark.

On the subject of selective memory, I remember playing STW and listening to the music from Gladiator, and offering my soul if I could play that first battle scene out of the movie, with total immersion in the battle not little sprites wiggling on the screen. When I first played RTW I knew I was headed for eternal damnation!

IMO now we have the engine - the other stuff will come, more strategy, better AI. CA had to first make a game to ensure theirs and the future of the TW series, they did that with RTW.

People whine 'its all about the money' WELL OF COURSE IT IS! what did you think it was about the LOVE, certainly I havent seen much love on the forums in a long long time - if ever. Heres how many games you get created out of love 0.

so in summary - yes RTW has its problems - BUT IT IS MAGNIFICENT!!

I for 1 will be waiting around for the gameplay, AI, and balance elements which Im sure will follow maybe not this expansion, maybe not until RTW2 expansion. And I look forward to enjoying the journey with immersive battles of EPIC proportions.

but see the glass as half empty if you wish, its your choice

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Originally Posted by Yunus Dogus

I for 1 will be waiting around for the gameplay, AI, and balance elements which Im sure will follow maybe not this expansion, maybe not until RTW2 expansion. And I look forward to enjoying the journey with immersive battles of EPIC proportions.

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I realize that you were partially responding to the previous post, but I'm not sure if your point is terribly strong. Boiling it down, it seems like you are saying "We've got a good engine, so we shouldn't worry about inadequate gameplay, AI and balance". I'm afraid that's not something I could agree with. And it certainly doesn't sound like a selling point for an expansion.

From the tone of your post, I'm guessing you'll be in the "buy the expansion immediately" crowd? Is there something specific about it that you find appealing, or is it simply the fact that it's a RTW expansion?

Bh

I don't give a damn what the community says about BI. I'll buy it on day one and come to the conclusion myself.

I Loved MTW.

RTW was a huge improvement, despite the weak AI.

With solid improvements to AI, the RTW engine provides the potential for one of those games that will be remembered forever...

RoN, AoE, C&C, Warcraft, Dune 2000, etc, etc. The faceless "realtime strategy" game has become saturated by copies and duplicates with nothing truly revolutionary. Creative assembly has developed a truly unique concept. Total War, my friends, has broken all the molds and that is why we, the duplicitous TW community, are all bitching and moaning with exuberant gratitude. We bitch because we see the potential.

I'll buy BI, and sadly, I'll also buy Spartan.

da

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Originally Posted by Bhruic

From the tone of your post, I'm guessing you'll be in the "buy the expansion immediately" crowd? Is there something specific about it that you find appealing, or is it simply the fact that it's a RTW expansion?

Bh

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Yes immediately, because its a RTW expansion, more units, more campaigns what more would you want from an expansion.

Look at the AOE expansions, more units, more campaigns. I cant actually think of an expansion that radically changed the original game engine.

I see it more as a perspective thing I could choose to dwell on the problems with the game, and let that destroy any further fun I mightve had playing it, or be positive about the huge changes in the game, how it has been a transformation of the total war game series, and be hopeful that gameplay and strategy elements will be tweaked over time.

As Divinus says we are disappointed because we want it all and now, and we see the potential for realising a long time gaming dream.

If you love MTW more play that and be happy, but whining about an expansion not yet released is a little premature - dont worry - therell be plenty of time and opportunity for whining once the expansion hits the shelves. ~:handball:

yo, Divinus Arma, you take this stuff too serioully. I agree with you that the CA team created a game engine that something are revolutionize the entire experience a strategy gamer point of view. CA rtw engine certainly is a fine piece of work that you can't find it in other game out there. first time I played rome total war, it complete engross me into it enhanced game engine and details that other can't compete with. As those are our point of view how a game should be like other have their own point of views as well. Sure the game engine allow me to experience what I've never experience before with other pc strategy game; however, there are more areas that CA need to focus on as well. For example the relationship system still fall behind it new revolutionize game engine. The wish and desire of a person can't never run out so you can complain and whinning all you want, it is the same complain and whinning that will win you your satisfaction. Cause if there is demand I am sure there is supply. ~:)

Im sad that people say They will rush out and buy the expantion instantly,

Its like CA can do no wrong,
They can release shoddy games which are unfinishedd and Full fo bugs,
Then instead of releasing a patch to fix them,
They can just watch all the lemmings march off to the store to Buy the exapantion Just to fix there inital mistakes,

This will just prove to ca That they are able to rip off people in this manner time and time again,

They can just make a crap game full of bugs sell it for £50 then, make an expantion to fix the flaws and sell that for £50 as well

Personally I will not be buying there expantion, as the Game isnt good enough to begin with,

AOE
STW
MTW
were all Great games in the begining,
And there expantions just prolonged the games life span,

Where as RTW is vitualy unplayable in single player,
and the expantion is there to fix there mistakes,
and add some units, and a few campaigns
This is just not right,

Had they relased a patch to fix the bugs and made the game playable,
I would then consider buying the expantion,
But i refuse to bow down to any faceless corporation demanding more money from me to fix a problem they more than likley left in on purpous to force people to buy there new and improved expantion

And i bet The AI will be just as moronic leaving the expantion Just as unplayable as the origional,

Personally I will wait untill they have released 2 or 3 more games using this engine.
So they actualy figured out how to utilise it properly,
becous at the moment They havent got a clue.

Not playing rome Has not been a loss to me, Obviously i lost £50 paying for the dumb game,
But STW & MTW are still better, So i have lost nothing in terms of game play and fun,
And not buying the expantion just means I dont need to reinstall an unfinished bug filled game that CA Rushed out just to get some revenue,

ShambleS
:bow:

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Originally Posted by Shambles

Im sad that people say They will rush out and buy the expantion instantly,

Its like CA can do no wrong,
They can release shoddy games which are unfinishedd and Full fo bugs,
Then instead of releasing a patch to fix them,
They can just watch all the lemmings march off to the store to Buy the exapantion Just to fix there inital mistakes,

This will just prove to ca That they are able to rip off people in this manner time and time again,

They can just make a crap game full of bugs sell it for £50 then, make an expantion to fix the flaws and sell that for £50 as well

Personally I will not be buying there expantion, as the Game isnt good enough to begin with,

AOE
STW
MTW
were all Great games in the begining,
And there expantions just prolonged the games life span,

Where as RTW is vitualy unplayable in single player,
and the expantion is there to fix there mistakes,
and add some units, and a few campaigns
This is just not right,

Had they relased a patch to fix the bugs and made the game playable,
I would then consider buying the expantion,
But i refuse to bow down to any faceless corporation demanding more money from me to fix a problem they more than likley left in on purpous to force people to buy there new and improved expantion

And i bet The AI will be just as moronic leaving the expantion Just as unplayable as the origional,

Personally I will wait untill they have released 2 or 3 more games using this engine.
So they actualy figured out how to utilise it properly,
becous at the moment They havent got a clue.

Not playing rome Has not been a loss to me, Obviously i lost £50 paying for the dumb game,
But STW & MTW are still better, So i have lost nothing in terms of game play and fun,
And not buying the expantion just means I dont need to reinstall an unfinished bug filled game that CA Rushed out just to get some revenue,

ShambleS
:bow:

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Actually, I'm not even sure if they're going to fix anything that is wrong with RTW 1.2 with the expansion. I'll believe it when I see it. As far as I know, there will be no more patches for RTW. I'm going to stick with that belief so I don't get my hopes up only to get disappointed in the future.

The game is still very playable, as long as you find the right mods to fix the bugs that can be easily fixed with modding. Things like save/load bug however can't be fixed. But IMO very irritating but still playable.

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Originally Posted by Virtute71

Actually, I'm not even sure if they're going to fix anything that is wrong with RTW 1.2 with the expansion. I'll believe it when I see it. As far as I know, there will be no more patches for RTW. I'm going to stick with that belief so I don't get my hopes up only to get disappointed in the future.

The game is still very playable, as long as you find the right mods to fix the bugs that can be easily fixed with modding. Things like save/load bug however can't be fixed. But IMO very irritating but still playable.

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Im quite shure they said they would fix the flaws in the expantion, They also asked for a bug list, So obviosuly they intended to do something.
But i beleve that the thread in their fourum that said they would, Was misteriously deleted,

So i guess i have no proof they ever said they would if they change there minds,

It really is no loss to me as i have MANY games,
ranging from moon patroll on my old atari 2600 up to the most recent games on my pc,
All of which i prefer playing, compared to RTW.

CAs policy of not fixing there flaws with a patch will and Has lost them many long term customers,
But there are still some people with more money than sence who will rush out and buy anything they put on the selfs,

However,
I supose one mans trash is another mans tresure so who am i to complain,

I have boycotted there game untill im satisfyed they can use there new technolagy,
I only wish more people would do the same As this may force them to re evaluate there no patching policy.
Or atleast begin releasing beta test's
"having said this. i have witnessed many beata testers say This is great Impliment it at once, Then they leave the game forever never to return as they have just ruined the game for them selfs and every one els,"

So i guess the only thing they could do to repreeve them selfs in to my favour would be to start releasing more patches Just to show they do care about end users, Becous right now, Its blaitant that they only care about there revenue.

:bow:
ShambleS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puzz3D

It's not going to be me doing the testing. Some of the key programmers who developed the previous game engine no longer work for CA. I doubt that sufficient skill to significantly improve the gameplay exists within CA at this point, and we know that they don't have the resources to do the kind of gameplay testing that such a complicated game requires. At the same time, CA will want to end-of-life RTW/BI quickly.

---

This has come as a considerable surprise to the programmers sitting at their desks. After they were told they didn't work here any more, they managed to raise a feeble cheer as they trooped from the building and headed back towards their loved ones.

But seriously, the same people who did STW, MTW and RTW are still here. Please refrain from posting unsubstantiated rumours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

This has come as a considerable surprise to the programmers sitting at their desks. After they were told they didn't work here any more, they managed to raise a feeble cheer as they trooped from the building and headed back towards their loved ones.

---

LOL!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

. But seriously, the same people who did STW, MTW and RTW are still here. Please refrain from posting unsubstantiated rumours.

---

I did't say all the programmers who worked on the previous game engine aren't at CA anymore. Also, RTW isn't the previous game engine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shambles

Im quite shure they said they would fix the flaws in the expantion, They also asked for a bug list, So obviosuly they intended to do something.
But i beleve that the thread in their fourum that said they would, Was misteriously deleted,

So i guess i have no proof they ever said they would if they change there minds,

It really is no loss to me as i have MANY games,
ranging from moon patroll on my old atari 2600 up to the most recent games on my pc,
All of which i prefer playing, compared to RTW.

CAs policy of not fixing there flaws with a patch will and Has lost them many long term customers,
But there are still some people with more money than sence who will rush out and buy anything they put on the selfs,

However,
I supose one mans trash is another mans tresure so who am i to complain,

I have boycotted there game untill im satisfyed they can use there new technolagy,
I only wish more people would do the same As this may force them to re evaluate there no patching policy.
Or atleast begin releasing beta test's
"having said this. i have witnessed many beata testers say This is great Impliment it at once, Then they leave the game forever never to return as they have just ruined the game for them selfs and every one els,"

So i guess the only thing they could do to repreeve them selfs in to my favour would be to start releasing more patches Just to show they do care about end users, Becous right now, Its blaitant that they only care about there revenue.

:bow:
ShambleS

---

Patches are Activision's call, they published the game so they have to handle the functional part of the PR system. Meaning, Activision and NOT CA call the patches. Maybe being owned by Sega will change that.


I'm going to be cracking up if the next TW goes does the SeeeeeGaaaa sound bite after their standard 100,000 screaming mean smashing into each other into movie.

Three points
1. If you dont like RTW so much, sell it on e-bay and your truobles are over

2. if you dont like the look of the expansion, dont buy it

and 3. i personally thought .org and the guild was for people that liked total war, and here you are slagging off about something tht, i think, is one of CA's and activision's best games

anyway thats my contribution

1:I think he already has...

2:sure!

3:Well, shambles likes STW and that is why he continues to post here.

Really, look at his sig...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mongoose

1:I think he already has...

2:sure!

3:Well, shambles likes STW and that is why he continues to post here.

Really, look at his sig...

---

Perhaps some positive posts in the Sword Dojo would be more appropriate then?

" I won't buy it " has been said so often, along with " I'll wait to find out what it's like "

Maybe the people who DO buy it should keep the information to themselves?

Those of us who happen to be optimistic could quite easily ask what is the point in posting about a game you do not enjoy? If you do not like it then do not play it but it seems pointless to just keep on saying RTW is crap! RTW is crap! RTW is crap!

Captain Fishpants, I guess you guys at CA have very thick skin or a bloody good sense of humour! It would be nice if BI turned out to be perfect but you know as well as I do that there would still be criticism.

.......Orda

"Captain Fishpants, I guess you guys at CA have very thick skin or a bloody good sense of humour! It would be nice if BI turned out to be perfect but you know as well as I do that there would still be criticism."

Yep, the programmers at Ca do have fairly thick skin. despite the fact that all their PR people/moderators are so...well...sensitive...

I love Shogun,
I really like MTW.

I was riped off when i bought RTW and did not get 1/10th of my moneys worth so I am entiteld to my say,
Just like the people who like the game are entitled to theirs.

I disslike the unfinished game, and have mearly stated fact in a polite manner,
If you dissagree that is fine,
But if you dont wish to see posts Where people say I disslike rome,
and so on.

Then i sudgest you stop visiting forums where people voice there oppinions

Aslong as people say they like it i will say i disslike it,
Other wize it just makes the game look impecable,
Which is not the truth,

Please note That I have not 1ce said i disslike either of the other games or expantions,
and to that matter, have never dissliked ANY other game that i have purchased.
And I have also siad had they bothered to finish rome, Or atlest released a patch to TRY and fix the problems Prehaps I would even like rome,

I do not like seeing People throw their money away,
I do not like the way they release unfinished games for full price then expect people to buy the expantion,
So i will make shure Both sides of the story are well known to all

ShambleS
:bow:

STW had no bugs?
MTW had no bugs?
Please, this is not true.
MTW/VI was a finished article after v2.01? I think not. Not unless you are happy with spears that are worthless. And why were they messed up in the first place? Because the community were not happy that they could beat swords. I saw no problem with 100 spears beating 60 swords but there you go. It seems people do not like the phalanx as it is....yet they were happy with VI spears!?!?
We will soon see what BI is like. My guess is that it will surprise

......Orda

Dont get me wrong, I beleve rome has Massive potential,
And i did not say that the other 2 were perfect,

But as you can plainly tell I am most definatly happy with the few bugs that they may have,
Where as the masses of bugs in rome lead me to b verry unhappy with it,
I dont disslike the concept,
Neither do i disslike the engine,

I mearly wish to wait untill they have fully grasped the capabilatys of it and are able to utilise them properly,
I to hope that the expantion will be great,
And if it is and works Well enough "i dont expect perfect"
then i will soon change my tune,

But i for 1 will not go out and buy it,
and even if it is flawless I ill wait untill the next game.
simply for the reason that all rome does when its on my pc is eat up valuabale disk space,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orda Khan

MTW/VI was a finished article after v2.01? I think not. Not unless you are happy with spears that are worthless. And why were they messed up in the first place? Because the community were not happy that they could beat swords. I saw no problem with 100 spears beating 60 swords but there you go. It seems people do not like the phalanx as it is....yet they were happy with VI spears!?!?
We will soon see what BI is like. My guess is that it will surprise.

---

It's was the upgrade system combined with the cheap swords that caused the breakdown of the RPS in MTW/VI MP. The basic units functioned correctly when not upgraded or if all units were upgraded equally. This isn't the case in RTW where the best cav units defeat the best spear units frontally. RTW had many, many more issues to be patched than the other two games. CA stated publically that they initially put 25 programmers out of a total of 74 on the RTW v1.2 patch effort. It was an effort which ran for 3 months, but there were still outstanding issues which weren't addressed because there was so much to do.

Now BI, which is supposed to be an add-on, has to also be a major patch to RTW, and yet we still see evasiveness from CA about gameplay issues, and I don't mean night battles or beserkers that go out of control. That doesn't instill confidence in me that the gameplay issues will be addressed. Everytime a player raises the issue of historical accuracy or realism someone we hear that gameplay comes first. Ok fine. I'd like to see the commitment to the gameplay because I haven't seen it yet. The basic RPS doesn't work. This has been pointed put to CA with replays which clearly show the problem, and it was done before v1.2 was finished.

CA often falls back on the excuse that they don't have enough time and resources to fix all the issues. That means they don't have the time and resources to make the game into a finished product. This isn't going to change with BI. Maybe the managers at CA will incude more debugging time in the development schedule this time around.

Hey Captain Fishpants,

E3 had come and gone. When are you guys going to release some major Barbarian Invasion preview? Two months before the release and we are still in the dark. ~:confused: :charge:

Shambles, RTW is far more complex than Shogun and MTW. ~:cool:

I am unhappy with the finished product as released to us but i will also be buying the expansion pack the day it comes out.Maybe i'm lucky that i don't worry about 50 quid or maybe it's because i buy very few games these days so i rarely feel cheated of my cash.I will never buy a resource management AoE/Starcraft/Warcraft type of game again,so for me it's TW games and Space Strats like Homeworld from now on.Since STW i have been hooked on TW and will continue to buy them for the mods that our great .ORG TWC and RTR members are creating if nothing else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shambles

I love Shogun,
I really like MTW.

I was riped off when i bought RTW and did not get 1/10th of my moneys worth so I am entiteld to my say,
Just like the people who like the game are entitled to theirs.

I disslike the unfinished game, and have mearly stated fact in a polite manner,
If you dissagree that is fine,
But if you dont wish to see posts Where people say I disslike rome,
and so on.

Then i sudgest you stop visiting forums where people voice there oppinions

Aslong as people say they like it i will say i disslike it,
Other wize it just makes the game look impecable,
Which is not the truth,

Please note That I have not 1ce said i disslike either of the other games or expantions,
and to that matter, have never dissliked ANY other game that i have purchased.
And I have also siad had they bothered to finish rome, Or atlest released a patch to TRY and fix the problems Prehaps I would even like rome,

I do not like seeing People throw their money away,
I do not like the way they release unfinished games for full price then expect people to buy the expantion,
So i will make shure Both sides of the story are well known to all

ShambleS
:bow:

---

i think people are just sick of reading the same thing everytime you make a post, youve had your say, and we all have probably got most of it memorized by now. maybe you should spend more time in the stw and mtw forums, as i think you`ll get less worked up in there.

LOL. reading several of the posts here have given me a chuckle. I've played STW, MTW and RTW (along with their expansions) since they each came out. When you've been reading these boards and others for that long you realize that what people today are saying about RTW is pretty much the same as what people were saying about MTW when they were waiting for the expansion. Same is true about what people were saying about STW while waiting for its expansion. I'd expect that when CA comes out with the next TW game, people will then be saying about it what they are now saying about RTW. The difference is that they'll most likely be saying "X:TW isn't nearly as finished as STW, MTW and RTW were. They were good games...."

Personally, I'll look towards CA's track record with the TW game series, as well as their expansions, to base my expectations of RTW:BI. If people take the time to look back over the series as a whole, they'll realize that CA has been remarkably consistent in what/how they've done things. How many patches, when they occur, what type of things get changed/improved in the expansion, etc. So far I've been happy. Have all of TW games been perfect? Nope, every one of them has had things that I'd have liked to be different, and I'll happily post that I'd like to see such-and-such change. But the bottom line is I've yet to see anyone else put out a game in TW category that comes close.

Oh, and I can remember people calling VI as a featureless expansion also. Seems that people have changed their mind now...

~:cheers:

There's a saying, hind sight is 20/20. The difference is VI is out and BI isn't. VI is a known quantity, BI isn't. VI added many good things to MTW, BI will probably do the same for RTW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wishazu

i think people are just sick of reading the same thing everytime you make a post, youve had your say, and we all have probably got most of it memorized by now. maybe you should spend more time in the stw and mtw forums, as i think you`ll get less worked up in there.

---

I dont get worked up over this issue,
but it seems my points hit a nerve with you,
prehaps you are the one who should not come here and not I
as it is indeed you who is being worked up.

If your happy to throw your money away on unfinished products then so be it,


However i dont beleve you should be giving 1st time buyers the wrong impression about this game,
and the lack of suport for end users.
Neither Should you be allowing activision and ca the right to release un finished games without needing to patch them

I blame ca as they never released more than v102 when ea published STW and now sega are rumored to take over,

Now we all know EA are buying up almost every game there is,
So why are people throwing Total war around like a hot potato, if CA are so Great,
If they havent got the time to finish the game,
Then they should not release it,
Or they should have the decency to patch the game.

I cant blame the publishers as they have released many great games,
Ea have released many great games, So have activision.
And they patch them relitivly well
(not that most of there games usualy need a patch)
I guess ca need to work harder or something,
Becous if sega get the games then say they dont want them,
Who will?

Thats a very mature response from you Shambles. Also, the only thing working me up is your terrible spelling and grammar. Say what you like about Rome mate, however please try and vary your responses to members posts as repeating yourself over and over again will not somehow magically make your opinion correct and everyone elses wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wishazu

Thats a very mature response from you Shambles. Also, the only thing working me up is your terrible spelling and grammar.

---

Insults :)
I see your reasoning skills fail you my freind,

And what do you have to say about the fact that no 1 seems to want the total war games?

EDIT,
I see you have added more to your post,

And in responce i say,

You re-itterating the same things will now make you correct and every 1 els wrong?

You cannot be hypocritical about this my freind,
You are Doing the same as me only from the opposit side of the fence

insults??? i cant see any. all i can see is a comment on your poor spelling etc. like i said, maybe you should return to the stw forums or wherever, instead of feeling the need to react to every opinion that is counter to your own. Anyways, ive made my point and i cant be bothered to spam this topic by replying to everything you say. Laterz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wishazu

insults??? i cant see any. all i can see is a comment on your poor spelling etc. like i said, maybe you should return to the stw forums or wherever, instead of feeling the need to react to every opinion that is counter to your own. Anyways, ive made my point and i cant be bothered to spam this topic by replying to everything you say. Laterz.

---

And this is not a reaction?

Pardon me my freind But you seem to be getting terribly worked up over this issue and prehaps you should take a break

By the way ,
If you do have some thing constructive to say
Why dont you reply to my initial remark of Ea not wanting the game And now sega being rumorerd to take over from activision,
And the fact that CA are being tossed around like a proverbial hot potato,

of cours you could keep throwing verbal abuse my way In futher proof that you are indeed being worked up over this matter,
and there for your inital comment of Leaving this forum as you are getting worked up about it,
Is in deed best directed at your self,
(you made no point my freind You mearly wound your self up did not answer 1 question deviated from the matter at hand and tried underhanded insults)


But I would like some one to explain to my Why EA (a company buying up Almost ALL games Would not keep hold of the total war games)
And why now is activison also rumored to be giving way to sega,
also How can people blame activision for the short number of patches if STW receved the same amount and then Ca were publishing there game through EA

ShambleS
:bow:

shambles. it is clear to me you have no idea how the game industry / computing world works.

you keep saying how programs are unfinished, they are not unfinished, quite often in large complex programs (such as i am sure R:TW engine is) it will not get fully tested until done by many people.

they also have a time period set to create these programs, usually there will assign some time to test and fix any issues but with new engines this might not be enough. Other games such as Raven Shield use existing engines (Unreal engine) which is used in many games so has been fixed.

technology in the computing world has a lifespan, if CA waited until the game engine was perfect and EVERYONE was happy with it, the technology could of been outdated, causing them too lose lots of money, risking the employees jobs and the future products they could make with the revenue.

Also it is common for programmers to leave the employment of a company, often they will leave for a better position at another company or will of completed a masters degree ect so will move on to that field.

So please, learn about the industry before you critise and "inform" them of the release from the company.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord Preston

shambles. it is clear to me you have no idea how the game industry / computing world works.

you keep saying how programs are unfinished, they are not unfinished, quite often in large complex programs (such as i am sure R:TW engine is) it will not get fully tested until done by many people.

they also have a time period set to create these programs, usually there will assign some time to test and fix any issues but with new engines this might not be enough. Other games such as Raven Shield use existing engines (Unreal engine) which is used in many games so has been fixed.

technology in the computing world has a lifespan, if CA waited until the game engine was perfect and EVERYONE was happy with it, the technology could of been outdated, causing them too lose lots of money, risking the employees jobs and the future products they could make with the revenue.

Also it is common for programmers to leave the employment of a company, often they will leave for a better position at another company or will of completed a masters degree ect so will move on to that field.

So please, learn about the industry before you critise and "inform" them of the release from the company.

---

I see you make no mention of patches,
A concept That Most people who frequent the internet would be familiar with.

You release a game,
You find a problem
You release a patch,
You find a problem
you releas a patch
and you keep doing this
Untill finaly there are no problems,

This is true for hardware and software,
Some 1 must not have mentioned this to ca

And that is The problem that needs to be adressed

and before you blame it on activision,
I doubt that EA and activison have the exact same policy on patches,
Also,
could you address the point in the above topic Of how people are throwing ca back and forth like a hot potato.
with Sega being next in line to catch it,

I keep saying Rome has Massive potential,
But unfortunaltly ca Only care about revenu,
They dont care if the game works properly or not,
and refuse to release patches,
You cant seriosly blame Activision as i have never had this complaint with them in the past,

ShambleS
:bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blaker024

theres night battles in rtw 1.2. custom battle advanced options

---

An interesting point.
but this is not quite the same.

in BI, Formations will be holding lighted torches, and it will actually be dark, if the screens i have seen are anything to go by.

this is different to the current night battles where it is actually more, evening than night.


on the topic of the original post.

i do not think the expansion is "featureless" in fact with the inclusion of varying victory scenarios. The empire split in two, and plenty of variety within the barbarian factions.

i would say its far from featureless.

you take over the Romana british, and try to fight of the saxons.
you can try to save the western empire.
you take the eastern empire and reconquer all that was lost.

you could take the huns, and rampage across europe.

which brings me to antihero point, i really hope they include small historical campaigns, like that of MTW, where you fight a series of historical battles.

with the additions of variable victory conditions, i see a VERY bright modding future for RTW.

patches

the attempts to fix bugs that have been found since release.

i myself write programs that are no where near as complex as R:TW, even the best designed programs can have unforseen problems until it is tested and released.

Some problems can be fixed with a simple change in the code, a bracket here or there, re-ordering code ect. but some require massive changes in scripts, which then could create new problems elsewhere.

hence if a "bug" is not MAJOR (ie. affects the game hugely) but requires lots of code change it is not worth the risk of creating new problems.

there are a lot of bugs, but most are not MAJOR, hence the number of changes needed could create even more problems. i have no problem with CA taking there time addressing these, maybe developing the R:TW engine for a future game.

i think you expect too much from R:TW and should stop slagging it off and appreciate what it does. for all the bugs its works well, it has many more features compared to other games, the number of stats and comparisons it has to do

MOST of them work well.

think of a game like Championship Manager, all those stats and equations, then tell them to create a graphics engine and they would of laughed. for the size of the project R:TW was its was WELL DONE! and can only get better

EDIT: can someone disable his edit feature?!?!? every post gets changed...... my post still answers it though

I do not change my post I mearly re word it ,
And you seem to hold many of the same ideas as I do,

I also say the Rome total war engine has huge potential.
And in deed i Look forward to future games,

Just as you do,

I also beleve rome total war can only get better (lets face it it cant get much worse)
However i do not beleve it was well done,

I also write scripts and make some basic games so I know exactly what you mean,
Some bugs can be buerried under Piles of code and almost impossible to find,
This would mean i would haft to re write everything,
So i dont bother,
Having said this,
I dont make millions out of my games and in fact i dont make 1 penny,
so why should I
Where as ca do make money and ther for should take the time to release a patch,
If they have the time and revenu to fix the problems in an expantion,
this blows your reasoning out of the water,

However,

I do not see this conversation geting very far,
And i also do not know why i bother,

Its your money.
Do with it what you please,
But if you are unhappy with what you buy,
I do not expect to see you complaning.
Where as I on the other hand Will Be saying things like,
I told you so,

I really do hope the xp is as Great as every 1 hopes,
In fact i hope its as great as I wish it to be "that would not be perfect"

But it would mean,
All the bugs would be adressed.
CA adopt a more realistic patching policy.
and that Finaly I get a game that dosent imedatly get religated to The "unwanted" pile,

So I really do hope this game comes out as good as you all hope if not better,
And you can all tell me so when you buy it,
And i will honestly be happy for you,


p.s
Try to imagine how many posts there would be if i did not Edit my posts my freind.

not only do i correct my wording .
But i also address new things that i have just read after other people edited,

And by the way,
A good way of knowing if im done editing is to look out for my name at the bottom,
I do not add that untill done
---------------------------
ShambleS
:bow:

i havent read the entire thread but i presume we came to bugs and glithes, as this is a converstion about the expansion, and it is widely hoped that the expansion will fix alot of the bugs in the game.

CA will not release antoher patch for RTW.
they have stated this many times.

hopefully the expansion, and possibly the patch for the expansion will clear most things up.

it was the same back in the days of MTW, viking invasion "finished" MTW, it completed it.

im am certain BI will do the same for RTW

you do not re-word. your post about patches went from one line to a essay.

you over estimate the money they makes on games, no doubt they made a lot of money but R:TW was first drempt up at the shogun time. this is a huge development time

the company also makes other games, which arn't so successful, some i might say flop, and lose money, the major games have to cover this, it also has to cover advertisement, production, employees wages. not just programmers wages but marketing other employees.

illegal version are also a increasing problem, revenue from games has dropped due to the availability of "cracked" versions about. creating new problems for programs who have to develop ways to try to prevent this. taking valueble programming time away from the actual game.

all of these peoples jobs are on the line so to say that they should just keep fixing a game until it is "perfect" and everyone is happy is laughable. you are asking a company to hold other developments, risking there future products success, how often do you see a "new" game come out but looks like a game from 1 or 2 years ago and does nothing new... this is what you are asking them to do.

i can not be bothered trying to explain this to you anymore. you are in your own world and refuse to accept the reality of the gaming world. you blame money grabbing companies, well i know of pleanty of companies that have gone bust due to not keeping up with technology.

finding a balance is the key, they addressed problems and have then moved on to the next product. hopefully that product will have addressed the problems discovered in the old one, to create perfect games first time, on time is a dream.

EDIT: and he edits it again.... suprise suprise. this is my last post on this discussion, CA have took too much slating from people who do not understand the industry. if they refuse to accept the reality that is there problem

use preview, then post instead of editing after people have replied.
good day to you all

:bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shambles

Ea not wanting the game And now sega being rumorerd to take over from activision,
And the fact that CA are being tossed around like a proverbial hot potato

---

Actually, CA switched to Activision from EA, not the other way around. Same way CA negotiated to be bought by SEGA. ~:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quietus

Actually, CA switched to Activision from EA, not the other way around. Same way CA negotiated to be bought by SEGA. ~:)

---

Thank you very much,
~:)
I stand corrected,

ShambleS
:bow:

I'm not sure why guys............but i'm just dying for a hot potato with fresh butter and maybe some coleslaw...............yes..........coleslaw............mmm ~D

I don't agree that the products from CA are unfinished. But I understand when you feel you have wasted your hard-earned money on something that isn't what you expected.

However, the developers cannot truly make a game perfect and free of bugs. It is simply impossible.

Also speaking pure in from a fiscal stand point, there is a time when patching a game is not worth it any more. CA obviously limits the time and resources they are willing to commit to their games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hotingzilla

However, the developers cannot truly make a game perfect and free of bugs. It is simply impossible.

---

I see this statement a lot, but find it to be a bit of a strawman. I don't think anyone is suggesting that one can make a perfect, bug-free game. There are degrees of completeness, however, that can be used to measure how close the game is to the mythical mark.

Take Dungeon Lords for example. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the game, but a quick google will likely lead you to some reviews. The game was released in such an unpolished state that it's a wonder it actually is being sold. The game is an RPG, so these days, one would expect a large 'immersion' factor. But it's lacking in that regard. Inns without furniture. Towns with 6 or 7 people. It's just not well done.

Now, if I were to make the statement above about this game, what would I accomplish? Would the fact that one can't make a perfect, bug-free game excuse the fact that Dungeon Lords is riddled with bugs, and is completely lacking in immersion? Would it put the game into the same category as RTW?

I'd say not, and I'd hope you would as well. The completeness of a game is a sliding scale. Some games are more complete, some are less. I personally think that RTW isn't as far along as it should have been, but it's certainly farther along than Dungeon Lords. You may think it's far enough along, which is fine. That's where subjective opinion enters in. But trying to excuse the game using the "it can't be perfect" line isn't going to render your opinion accurate, or make mine inaccurate.

Bh