A spilling of guts

This probably isn't the right place to talk about this(angst ladden no loger do I feel dirty after looking at myspace), but I want to speak of this.

I hate me. I really hate me.

In the chat room I have discussed someone I love with some of you, BKS, Prince Laridus Konivaich(Ada I think), Proletariat mostly. And I speak of her again.

I suppose I should tell the backstory first. I was a senior at our school and she came as a new student. She joined the varsity quiz team which I was a member. The first day of practice and she suggests that we genocide be used to silence some annoying members of the team. My jaw dropped. Only I would say something that violent. Perhaps she is like me. First semester goes by. At the very end of it, during a fire drill she pokes me and laughs. What? More time goes by. Start of Science Olympiad, and she signs up, which surprised me but I thought was good. Later in one of the meetings she grrrs at me. This can't be. State Science olympiad competitions come. I say something about destroying all life, and she asks what about her. As the award ceremony ends I'm giving high fives to the team, she comes. Graps hand, hold, eyes meet, emotional warmth. Time passes. I ask her to prom, and was happy there, not that we did anything aside from cuddle. Then we don't actually do anything except communicate. She breaks up with her boyfriend, although I'm positive I didn't have anything to do with it. If someone asks, I'll explain why I think so. And it continues with only communication. The Science Olympiad nationals come. We break off before and after the events. We made out, but didn't have sex. Almost did. maybe stopping was a mistake. Too late now I suppose. After science olympiad we do communicate, but that is all. Although, we did agree to be in a relationship. We said we should do something after school ends. The first week passes, I stupidly say nothing. Until today.

But before I ask her about going out, she tells me that she's got back together with her old boyfriend. I suspected they were moving together, since she mentioned that they were going out. Ok, maybe we can still hang out(was this what I was thinking at the time? I don't remeber and looking over the conversation doesn't remind me). I'm moving toward suggesting it, and she says it's a bad idea. I asked why. She said because she would kiss me. Afterward, I was very cruel, advertantly at least that's what I remember. Worse I went back on what I said before. She called me out, and I apologised. I am such a fool. For a while, pain. Now, hmmm. Very little resentment. Just emptiness and isolation with minimal prospect of escape from it. Fortunately, her summer is looking up since she is going to be around her boyfriend. He makes her very, and if that can make me happy without a shred of reservations consistantly much will be better. But I still don't think that would be enough. How not to miss her presence? That is something I need to do, but don't want to. Hmmf, I suppose it would be better if I did this on my own, oh well.

Take that for what you will. And someone please comment on this, at least if you want to.

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I am such a fool. For a while, pain.

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Not to reduce your uniqueness in any way, but this is the human condition.

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How not to miss her presence?

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Why try not miss her presence? since you clearly have deep feelings for and about her. To miss someone for whom you care is one of the most powerful emotions. I say, go ahead and miss her, let the thought engulf you and then understand it. Just don't let it overwhelm you. Feel it and learn about yourself.

ichi :bow:

ps let her know she has affected you, thank her for it

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Originally Posted by ichi

Not to reduce your uniqueness in any way, but this is the human condition.



Why try not miss her presence? since you clearly have deep feelings for and about her. To miss someone for whom you care is one of the most powerful emotions. I say, go ahead and miss her, let the thought engulf you and then understand it. Just don't let it overwhelm you. Feel it and learn about yourself.

ichi :bow:

ps let her know she has affected you, thank her for it

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Thanks ichi. I appreciate your reply. The advice you give is good, certain better than just trying to forget, which was what I was considering. I will try to learn from this. And I will tell her she has altered me, and thank her for it. Again thanks for replying, it means alot to me. :bow:

Is she your first girlfriend?
If so it will be hared , but try answer yourself if she is that correct person whom do you need more than your life , if so try anything to get her back , if not than just find another one ( the qucker the better ) ...

One more thing : if you break relations with your girlfriend the best thing to do is to find another one.
:bow:

I still think about the girls I was in love with in HS sometimes. Just be happy that you have gotten to know her and spent time with her. Bad memories will fade, hang on to the good ones

And there will be someone else, so don't worry too much. :bow:

If you want love - get a dog.

If you want a friend - go to the bar.

If you want great sex - get a woman.

Women can be replaced. You might not think it, but it is oh so very true. And no matter how insanely you love one, as soon as you see the next one slinking into the bedroom wearing her purdy pink playthings, the memories of the first will disappear like a fart in the mist.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

If you want love - get a dog.

If you want a friend - go to the bar.

If you want great sex - get a woman.

Women can be replaced. You might not think it, but it is oh so very true. And no matter how insanely you love one, as soon as you see the next one slinking into the bedroom wearing her purdy pink playthings, the memories of the first will disappear like a fart in the mist.

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Couldn't agree more. Perhaps i'm a cynic, but i seem to be having this relationship crisis thing with my girlfriend of 10 months. But that's a story for another topic. ~;)
Anyway, i'm sorry to hear about you trouble, disc. But as far as i can tell...this has nothing to do with you!

I don't mean that in a 'it's not your business' way. I mean that all of the events that have made you feel low were out of your control. It strikes me that the main reason you're f**ked up is because she chose to go back to her boyfriend.

I realise this probably won't help that much, but i just want you to consider the fact that putting yourself down is meaningless when you've done nothing to warrant it.


P.S As a member of myspace, i constantly feel dirty...(Though i only visit to look at my friend's stuff)

Thanks for the encouragement. But it doesn't help. Her appearance wasn't what was special for me. She thought like I do. She knew vengence, rage, pain, and strength. The pain will likely make me stronger one way or another(so I suppose that was really an act of love) one forum of which ichi was encouraging me to follow.


And the decision is hers to make IliaDN, I will not try to make her change her mind(she said such an effort is doomed to fail anyway). And finding someone else won't work, unless they also think like I do(very unlikely). Now I think I will read of Nietzche, maybe that will make me feel better.

Hmmm, I listening to Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden. I sent this song to her. She said she liked it.

Pick up, move on. it's all you can do.

Wait a week. You'll see, you'll get over it. If I could count all the girls/women I have had complete crushes on it would take all day, but I got over ALL of them.

There's millions of people out there. You'll find someone like yourself again. And if you think about it college has a larger selection as well, there's bound to be someone you might like even more!

You know man it could have been worse. You could have never met anyone you ever liked. That's my problem to be honest. I am incredibly picky like I imagine you are, but I haven't given up hope yet.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Pick up, move on. it's all you can do.

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Thanks Kaiser. That's good advice. Easier said than done though.

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

Wait a week. You'll see, you'll get over it. If I could count all the girls/women I have had complete crushes on it would take all day, but I got over ALL of them.

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Really? A week doesn't seem like a very long time... But I will, eventually I guess. Not that I want her to mean nothing to me, but that probably is unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

There's millions of people out there. You'll find someone like yourself again. And if you think about it college has a larger selection as well, there's bound to be someone you might like even more!

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True. The university I'm going to has 10,000 freshmen, there must be at least one that thinks like I do right? Then again, the university would be reminder of her. I suppose I'd get over that too however.

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

You know man it could have been worse. You could have never met anyone you ever liked. That's my problem to be honest. I am incredibly picky like I imagine you are, but I haven't given up hope yet.

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This is also true. Thank you for reminding me of this. And if it helps, I don't think that's a problem. I think it is best to be picky, since one is more likely to be in an emotionally fulfilling relationship. And you will find someone, and it will be worth the wait. And thanks bp. You've helped me alot. :bow:

I'm happy keeping with my occasional one-night stands... some of the managers have been refering to me as Quagmire lately (from Family Guy) :laugh4:

But seriously, HS relationships tend be fairly shallow... is it me, or are most girls/women walking hypocrits? They say one thing, do one thing, and then before you know it... do something completely opposite.

If what... one or two weeks went by... and she didn't call you (yes it should be the other way around also) then she really didn't want to be serious with you in the first place. Either that or she isn't very socialable.

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But seriously, HS relationships tend be fairly shallow... is it me, or are most girls/women walking hypocrits? They say one thing, do one thing, and then before you know it... do something completely opposite.

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Maybe such flexibility is a strength.

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If what... one or two weeks went by... and she didn't call you (yes it should be the other way around also) then she really didn't want to be serious with you in the first place. Either that or she isn't very socialable.

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We did communicate rather often.

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Originally Posted by discovery1

Maybe such flexibility is a strength.

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What?! 'Flexibility' is a strength for sure (on all accounts ~;)), but hypocrisy and borderline deception is not! Personally, i'd much rather the women be as rational as the men i know...

And Wazikashi, i completely agree.

Different things work for different people. Some try to drown their sorrow in booze, some in a large number of women over a short period of time, some in more or less complete abstinence, some in moving away from people and the world, etc.
None are worse or better as a rule; they simply work better (and note better is very subjective) for different people.

So mostly, we can only really advise you from our own similar experiences (which makes perfect sense, of course); but keep in mind that what may work fine for us, may be different in your case; we're all a bit different (argh, I hate sounding so much like a preacher or a two-cents cheap-ass philosopher).

Anyway, give it a bit of time. These "old boyfriend/girlfriend" things honestly piss me off, but that's not really on-topic.
Another thing perhaps to keep in mind is that different people can fill different gaps in you in different ways: one may be an incredible sex partner, another one can be your best drinking buddy, yet another one may be your confidante, another to help you out with advice and life-deciding matters, like an older brother, and the list goes on.

I'm trying to say two things with this:
1. First, even though she may not become your gf, you can most likely keep in touch with her. Anything can happen over time: you may figure out that she's the woman of your life, or that she is not really as special as you first thought, or anything in between. Not only that, but she may also turn out to be very good company, or, like I was trying to say above, fill other kind of gaps in your life.

2. You can look for some of the things she may have been able to offer you in other places. You might be surprised at your findings once you look hard enough...

Did I say give it a bit of time? ~D

good luck

Now I'm so confused. She said that i'm a part of her that she loves but is trying to let go of because it's incompatible with the furture she plans for. I discourge yet encourage her violent tendencies. And if she drops the tendencies, then she will either change the nature of our relationship(ruining everything) or let go. And she doesn't want to make that decision. She says she doesn't want to lose me now. But if she doesn't drop that part of her then she will leave her boyfriend in hopes of being with me.

And I hate society. I really hate society.

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(argh, I hate sounding so much like a preacher or a two-cents cheap-ass philosopher).

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No $h!t

I want to help but do not want to ever talk condescendingly or authoritatively. Gah!

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or are most girls/women walking hypocrits? They say one thing, do one thing, and then before you know it... do something completely opposite.

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Men/boys can do this also, sometimes intentionally being hypocritical playing games, manipulating, other times confused. People change as they learn and figure things out. I've always preferred the unpredictable woman to the oh-so-predictable, boring girl.

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She said that i'm a part of her that she loves but is trying to let go of because it's incompatible with the furture she plans for. I discourge yet encourage her violent tendencies. And if she drops the tendencies, then she will either change the nature of our relationship(ruining everything) or let go.

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Like it or not, a dark and dangerous path isn't compatible with raising a family or becoming successful in most endeavors (rockstar, pornstar, author, criminal, vampire maybe its OK), and she sees this. You bring out the exciting, the unusual, the interesting in her life, but she may be wise enough to know that this could be incompatible with a 'normal' life.

Since many people have a hard time balancing the light and dark, the kind and the evil, love and hate within themselves, she might just be taking the safe course.

She may see you as different (which can be a positive) yet may fear normalizing you and normalizing with you.

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I really hate society.

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So do I, but I also love it. It is as necessary as it is useless, as real as it is an illusion, as oppressing as it it uplifting.

The ability to hold two mutually exclusive thoughts in one's head simultaneously, and not to let it hurt, is a good thing to have.

ichi :bow:

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Like it or not, a dark and dangerous path isn't compatible with raising a family or becoming successful in most endeavors (rockstar, pornstar, author, criminal, vampire maybe its OK), and she sees this. You bring out the exciting, the unusual, the interesting in her life, but she may be wise enough to know that this could be incompatible with a 'normal' life.

Since many people have a hard time balancing the light and dark, the kind and the evil, love and hate within themselves, she might just be taking the safe course.

She may see you as different (which can be a positive) yet may fear normalizing you and normalizing with you.

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I don't know ichi. I don't think I bring out the 'interesting' in her life. For her her violent tendencies are the norm(at least some are). And they are rather subtle also and directed toward herself generally. The even more suble ones, you may be right about. She has a tendancy to hurt those that she loves, through subtle indirect means. She wants to stop this.

She sees me as different in a way. She describes me as what she would have been if she hadn't listened to society as a whole. And I think, and she seems to agree, that society is pushing her to change again. For that, I hate society even more.

Hmf, I suppose all I can do is wait. Oh, and enjoy ever moment I am comunicating with her before she moves to change.

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Originally Posted by ichi

Men/boys can do this also, sometimes intentionally being hypocritical playing games, manipulating, other times confused. People change as they learn and figure things out. I've always preferred the unpredictable woman to the oh-so-predictable, boring girl.

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Hahah, girls aren't exactly strangers to manipulating and playing games, my friend. My girlfriend being an example. :furious3:


*Composes self*

Anyway, there's a fine line between unpredictable and crazy. Unpredictable girls want to do things on the spurr of the moment, like to do things a bit different, like to (to coin a beatles phrase) "Do it in the road" etc.

Crazy, irrational women (All of the women i seem to know well in my life) talk about marraige when you're 17, play guilt games with you just so you do something you didn't want to do (goodbye principles), claim to be unnattractive, not because they are, but because they want to hear you call them different.

Of course, as Blodrast said, this is all based on experience. I guess it seems my experience in this case hasn't been 100% positve.


Well, that was a large digression... *goes back to subject at hand*

To be *brutally* honest, if she believes you're going to be dangerous to her, your chances are slim. However, how dangerous can you and this girl be? I'd consider myself very violent in terms of how i think and what i say i'd like to do, but i'd never act upon them.

Unless you want to become a massive political activist, i'd say she didn't have much to worry about...

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To be *brutally* honest, if she believe you're going to be dangerous to her, your chances are slim. However, how dangerous can you and this girl be? I'd consider myself very violent in terms of how i think and what i say i'd like to do, but i'd never act upon them.

Unless you want to become a massive political activist, i'd say she didn't have much to worry about...

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She doesn't think that I will hurt her. She thinks that I will encourage self-destructive behavior, although the main behavior isn't really damaging. Unusual, but doesn't do any real harm, at least as it stands. And the rarer behavior doesn't do any permanent damage, and she hardly ever does it.

Ouch. That's not exactly the best thing a guy can ever be told, huh?

Yeesh...

But i'm curious. How do you think society is hindering your/her individuality? I mean, just because you exist among people who hold certain ideals and attributes doesn't mean you all have to believe the same thing. That's the wonder of free speech and thought...

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Ouch. That's not exactly the best thing a guy can ever be told, huh?

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It doesn't actually bother me....

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But i'm curious. How do you think society is hindering your/her individuality? I mean, just because you exist among people who hold certain ideals and attributes doesn't mean you all have to believe the same thing. That's the wonder of free speech and thought...

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Not mine, not yet anyway. But she once gave into societies pressure to conform, and it royally fucked her up(it's appropraite for this case). Now she seems to be doing it again for the sake of being normal. And I think that societies values and their definition of 'normal' are false and destructive and only lead to weakness.

Well it sucks... that she thinks of you as a bad influence, but you cannot make someone love you. It just doesn't happen that way. It's okay to sulk about it, but don't let it overtake your life... I know depression like the back of my hand (I'm actually Clinically Depressive) and I can tell you, I hate it with a passion, and I never want to go back to feeling like the world is like a pool of darkness and I'm drowning it.
You have to pick up the pieces and move on, this will make you strong in your mind and in your emotions. And when the next girl takes over your heart, you can enter it with an open mind, distance yourself from your emotions, until you are absolutely sure this thing is for real, and when you realize it is, you can slowly give pieces of your affection to her. My method has always worked, and sadly, it is I who has problems with not making it work. I get far too deep into it, and then I suddenly look at how everything has changed, and I scare myself away from sed person. ce' lamoure'

It just sounds to me like you missed the boat. My advice is to catch the next one, but in case something crazy happens, keep the old ticket.

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Well it sucks... that she thinks of you as a bad influence, but you cannot make someone love you.

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She does love me, at least until she changes herself....

I don't know... that sounds a lot like the age old break up liners like "You're too good for me" or "I think we start seeing other people" or "I love you, I just can't stand you".

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Originally Posted by discovery1

She does love me, at least until she changes herself....

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Have sex with her, get her pregnant. Then she'll love you forever. ~;)

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Originally Posted by Wazikashi

I don't know... that sounds a lot like the age old break up liners like "You're too good for me" or "I think we start seeing other people" or "I love you, I just can't stand you".

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I rather doubt that. I keep telling her that she doesn't have to talk to me if she doesn't want to, but she does. And she's always been strait and to the point before, even if she didn't care much for the outcome.

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

Have sex with her, get her pregnant. Then she'll love you forever. ~;)

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1) She takes birth control pills
2)That's wrong
3)I hate kids.

Although you were tongue-in-cheek...

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1)She takes birth control pills
2)That's wrong
3)I hate kids.

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1)Replace her birth control pills with sleeping pills. ~;)
2)It's not wrong if you mean it. ~:)
3)You put the kids up for adoption. Problem solved! :bow:

Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna go get more drunk. :barrel:

@BKS: I'm trying to be funny, don't raise my warn level!

!BP! :wacky:

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

1)Replace her birth control pills with sleeping pills. ~;)
2)It's not wrong if you mean it. ~:)
3)You put the kids up for adoption. Problem solved! :bow:

Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna go get more drunk. :barrel:

@BKS: I'm trying to be funny, don't raise my warn level!

!BP! :wacky:

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I wasn't going to warn you. That last, however, sounds like a challenge... :charge:

What i have read above, it seems to me that you really have strong feelings for each other.My only advice in that kind of situation is that if you really want to know the truth.Push her against the wall mentally.Be brutally honest about your feelings towards her.If that makes her to distance herself from you,then my friend.Its not worth it.This way you can be shure about the situation.This might hurt like hell,but then you know and you can go on with your life. :bow:

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Originally Posted by kagemusha

What i have read above, it seems to me that you really have strong feelings for each other.My only advice in that kind of situation is that if you really want to know the truth.Push her against the wall mentally.Be brutally honest about your feelings towards her.If that makes her to distance herself from you,then my friend.Its not worth it.This way you can be shure about the situation.This might hurt like hell,but then you know and you can go on with your life. :bow:

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I told her I love her and why I do to the best of my understanding that words can convey anyway. And I don't like the idea of pushing her around. And thanks kagemusha :bow:

Well come on. What happened, what did she say?

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Originally Posted by ColdKnight

Well come on. What happened, what did she say?

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I told her that awhile ago before this happened, and she said that she loves me and that she still loves me. I am a part of her, a part which she wishes to be rid of but not yet.

Edit: Oddly, Saturday she seemed so certain so willing to move to change. Sunday, she didn't. I kind of wish she would make a decision, since the waiting in limbo is painful, but I may learn from that pain so it could be a good thing.

Hmm.... that is a very perplexing answer. A very hard one to decipher.

There's still the sleeping pills. Just sayin....... ~D

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but I may learn from that pain so it could be a good thing

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*smiles*

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I don't think I bring out the 'interesting' in her life. For her her violent tendencies are the norm(at least some are). And they are rather subtle also and directed toward herself generally.

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It's hard to convey meaning in short posts (at least it is for me) but I think we are seeing (and saying) the same thing. With you she feels comfortable, maybe even encouraged, to let her tendencies prevail. She may be worried that if she changes then either her connection to you will be lost, or that you too will be changed, and she may not want to be responsible for that.

Ask yourself, and maybe ask her, if the connection between you is based on behavior or on the deeper feelings that drive behavior. The superficial can't survive the changes that are inevitable, the deeper feelings can be actually intensified through change.

ichi :bow:

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Originally Posted by ColdKnight

Hmm.... that is a very perplexing answer. A very hard one to decipher.

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I think I understand it. She loves the violent and destructive part of her, but she thinks that it isn't conductive to her future well being(for example she has always deliberately hurt the guys she's been with after awhile. I directly encourage this behavior, believe it or not). She said that being with her old boyfriend makes her very happy(although she also said he was being a jerk just before they broke up and in the interm was deliberately cruel to her), and that she wants to have a normal relationship at last(never mind what I think of normalness).

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There's still the sleeping pills. Just sayin.......

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Sleeping pills put her out for days at a time....

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It's hard to convey meaning in short posts (at least it is for me) but I think we are seeing (and saying) the same thing. With you she feels comfortable, maybe even encouraged, to let her tendencies prevail. She may be worried that if she changes then either her connection to you will be lost, or that you too will be changed, and she may not want to be responsible for that.

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Yes, that is true, at least lately. She does feel that I don't oppose her violence, indeed in some cases I encourage it. And yes, she does feel that if she changes I will be lost(either the relationship is changed thus ruin or she lets go), but I don't think that she thinks that I too would change. That would I think be a surrenduring to society and to weakness and a betrayal of myself. NOTHING is worth the last in that series. Besides, she wishes that I don't change.

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Ask yourself, and maybe ask her, if the connection between you is based on behavior or on the deeper feelings that drive behavior. The superficial can't survive the changes that are inevitable, the deeper feelings can be actually intensified through change.

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I think that her eventual objective is to change those deeper feelings. If they survive, I think she thinks she will revert, or at least leave her old boyfriend in hopes of being with me.

And thanks ichi, really. :bow:

Either way, Good luck man. Shit like this is tough, you just gotta hope for the best.
I'll say a prayre, if that makes any difference.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Either way, Good luck man. Shit like this is tough, you just gotta hope for the best.
I'll say a prayre, if that makes any difference.

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Thanks Kaiser. I appreciate it.

She says she misses me.

Not a problem, Discovery. I just hope that everything works out.
I wish I could give better advice, but relationships isn't somthing I have too much experience with, all I can say is that in the end, you'll turn out stronger because of this, no matter how it works out.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Not a problem, Discovery. I just hope that everything works out.
I wish I could give better advice, but relationships isn't somthing I have too much experience with, all I can say is that in the end, you'll turn out stronger because of this, no matter how it works out.

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Thanks for the support. I know I will, it hurts after all.

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And thanks ichi, really.

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maybe someday you'll come up to Brianhead to go 'boarding, we can hook up

ichi :bow:

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Originally Posted by ichi

maybe someday you'll come up to Brianhead to go 'boarding, we can hook up

ichi :bow:

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Thanks. I'll remember that. :bow:

I wonder when was the last time I cried?

http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=she_falls_softly

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I appreciate your silence, I honestly do. It means the world to me that you are so willing to let go.

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I'm not, at least I think that applies to me. I wish she would contact me. Now I don't know if I should remain silent hoping that she will contact me, or do it myself.